When Is A Pastor Disqualified?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- Is the call to ministry “irrevocable”? On this podcast, author and Bible teacher Ron Cantor helps untangle confusion about when leaders are disqualified.
It's particularly relevant given what's happening with Mike Bickle, founder of the International House of Prayer in Kansas City.
Despite multiple allegations of sexual abuse, including from minors, some voices calling for Bickle to be restored to ministry. Ron Cantor engages the arguments heard often in evangelical circles-citing Scripture and context as he provides food for thought.
This program was also released as an audio podcast and transcript on Apr. 3, 2024:
julieroys.com/...
Learn more about Ron Cantor's ministry at RonCantor.com
THE ROYS REPORT is a media outlet dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. If you value this podcast, please consider financially supporting this ministry at www.julieroys....
#TheRoysReport #ihopkc #mikebickle
VISIT ONLINE -
www.julieroys....
FOLLOW ON X -
/ reachjulieroys
FOLLOW ON INSTAGRAM -
/ reachjulieroys
LIKE ON FACEBOOK -
/ reachjulieroys
Mike Bickle should not be restored he should be put in prison.
Prison ministry???
agree much!
Prison could very well be part of the restoration process. . .
He's not going to prison. You're not going to see anybody bringing criminal charges against him from something that happened over 20 years ago.
Mike should be restored spiritually but not to ministry
These guys are so quick to "restore" the perpetrators. The victims are an afterthought at best. Sick.
Julie did the same thing when she refused to report on the affair between Misty Edwards and Mike Bickle. Misty lied and let others into the ambit Mike Baker all well knowing who and what he was. I do not suggest it Julie should punish Misty but that she should do the right thing and protect innocent people from becoming future victims. Her decision was Exactly the same as those who favor the perpetrator over the victim. It is exactly what she has done and it is always wrong.
Bickle should never be in any type of ministry again! Pray for his soul!
He was disqualified right from the beginning. 😓
Mormon or satanist, NO FRUIT!
My husband works in the energy sector and the FTC. If he gets caught violating Trade Laws, he is fired immediately, on the spot, without the possibility of rehire. He knows it and conducts himself accordingly. Shocking to me is that we accept so much less of our Christian leaders.
Who would ever, ever follow Mike Bickle, ever again??? Can parents ever trust him around their kids?? Only men would advocate for him back into ministry. The men that do want to bring him back need to examine their own moral standards. Failing to see the depth and gravity of this issue may actually disqualify them from ministry.
Well said. No one should EVER follow Bickle! Or, the men hell bent on “restoring” Bickle. Here’s looking at you, Rick “Nothing Burger” Joyner. That said, I’m sorry to say that there will be many who will follow MB, should he return to the pulpit. Color me cynical but there are many of this mindset - “as long as I’m not adversely affected by the person, and he has positively influenced my walk with the Lord, then I don’t care if the person damages others, I’ll follow them.” I call this WIIFM (what’s in it for me) Christianity.
Many want bickle restored🤢🤮
As a man, I think that the men who want Mike Bickle restored to ministry are mostly the ones who want to be or are exactly like him.
Omg. That's true. It's only men in ministry wanting him restored to it. 🤢
@@n.o.9575 stay away from organized Christianity 🤢🤮 cheap entertainment
Far too many so called self appointed leaders who are crooked and not truly in Christ.
Pure love of God does not produce this fruit.
Pastors are held to a higher standard. Galatians 6:1 is not a get out of jail free card!
Reporting the truth IS the needed thing for the church to be restored! Thank you
Ron makes excellent points about the secular workplace offering more stringent guidelines and punishments for abuse of power than the church often does. Great observation.
I was involved in a church who was formed from a group called Ministers Fellowship International. It was supposed to be a system of accountability also. A place for Fallen Pastors to receive accountability and be restored etc etc. Most times after a period of restoration they were sent out to another church to commit SA again.
My life and the life of my family and many others were completely destroyed by the lies coverup and abuse we received for speaking against Gods Anointed.
When will the focus be on RESTORING the Victims of such Leaders??? It’s always on the Leaders and the Ministries they represent.
I'm so sorry you went through all of that 😢 I hope you've been able to recover. ...and Yep. That's been true. Hopefully with all the exposure this will change things within the wider church. I too, was hurt by abuse and cover up in a church setting. It was so strange how these men bent over backwards to protect the one who abused me, and how they were so willing and quick to cover it all up! Very sad 😢. I don't think I have yet fully recovered and it's been over a decade...or two...
Thanks for this interview!
Thanks for keeping this in the public eye.
MB is just waiting for everyone to forget and move on so he can "minister" again in public.
I say NEVER let this happen!
This is what happens when people don’t know how to rightly interpret and handle the Word of God. “Restore” doesn’t mean restore them to vocational ministry or a ministry role. It means restore them to a right relationship with Christ and others.
Mike Bickle often times taught about the very things that disqualified him, that's what made him appear so innocent
🎯💯
This is what staggered me. It was like he was preaching to himself.
@@JhutaNabiHonestly don't think he was preaching to himself. Just think he was saying what he thought others wanted to hear.
@@laurenfromdownsouth I agree. This man has an uncanny knack for knowing what people want to hear... or are expecting to hear. Which is what made him so "effective".
@@JhutaNabi Is spreading the Gospel dependent on a person holding a leadership position in the Church? If that's the case, I don't personally think it's the spreading of the Gospel of Christ that's motivating the desire for leadership in such a situation. I'm speaking about general theological principles, and not about any one person or situation.
@ckda70 yes exactly. It's a strategy some people use so that those around them let their guards down. I remember one minister whose main book he sold was on sexual purity, and all the while he was having affairs. 😠
When Morningstar took on the job of restoring Todd Bentley, a lot of the congregation left. Bentley got married to his mistress during this restoration, it did not work. MS should deal with their roach infestation.
Right satan should really reign in his "false apostles of christ" and satans servants who are "ministers of righteouness"; that wont happen 2cor11:3-15
@Julie Roys, THIS was excellent! Thank you
Thanks so much Julie Roys and Ron Cantor for your clarity and honesty .
What a sickness Christianity is
Self appointed is one thing that disqualifies someone for sure. That as far as I am concerned applies to many!
If there is evidence of criminal behavior he should be charged.
Im from a mainline denomination, and I'm not going to tell people what to believe or not believe. (Partly because the theological issues are separate from accountability in leadership) That said, the age of the prophets of ancient Israel is primarily the period of the Old Testament ,and perhaps the early New Testament. The periods that pointed to the coming of Christ, or foundation of the Church on Earth All of that's been accomplished , and humanity's plan of salvation is mapped out in Scripture. In traditional Christianity, Christ is the literal Word of God; and fully human and fully God , eternally begotten of God. (having always existed with God , and through Christ all things were made) Holy Scripture is a written record of God's Word, and while it's not always meant to be taken literally; it is authoritative on matters of salvation. If someone claims or claimed to be a prophet in this age; that's a personal theological red flag for me. We no longer need prophets to point the way to our salvation, or the purpose of the Church.
Julie you always give the most excellent quality of work!
I agree.
Why do we use the words moral failure? These words seem padded or cushioned. Call it what it is. The Word of God does.
Thank you so much for addressing this difficult subject!!!
So many of these guys are afraid to stand firm against sin. Because of the 501c3...and it's about money and this honor culture! God help the church! The real church.
Julie, this is such an excellent and important podcast. Thank you for addressing hard subjects and getting right interpretation of scripture applied to them. I think this is equipping the BoC. I pray this MB and IHOPKC horrific scandal results in righteousness, justice and maturity in the church.
Blessings Julie! Thank you for speaking out your work is so important🙏🏽❤️
I agree with you 100% on this. Julie does the most comprehensive information in the different scandals which we NEED going forward. I didn’t know about Mike Bickel before this but this is out of control. In a REALLY bad way out of control. Help us Jesus
Awesome job Julie and Ron. I believe the Lord Jesus smiles when he considers the work you have done. Please be encouraged and continue your advocacy for the weak and downtrodden.❤
Julie and Ron, thank you for an excellent and thorough presentation on this damaging situation.
What's so upsetting to me is obviously what KV said, but more so the audience clapping and laughing. Idol worship on display.🤨😠 It's only when the sheep get up and walk away from these million dollar ministries can we take back the Gospel.
I'd say, Mike isn't even saved, so how can he be restored. The HOLY Spirit lives in a believer, and Mike exhibited no holiness, which means he does not have the Holy Spirit, which means he ain't saved.
err ....I am 100% sure you sin. Everyday for that matter. Does that mean Holy Spirit does not live inside of you? Does this mean you ain't saved?? Even though the perfect ONE lives inside of us, it is clear from scripture that we also have a carnal nature.
I so agree with you
@@DanceswithHyenasYou've completely missed the point that the OP was making
Enlighten me.@@johnnydev9318
💯
We need more righteous anger against the system Julie. Love people,but no mercy for the demonic sysyem holding Gods prople captive.
Thank you for this, Julie!
Where in Galatians 6 does it say "restoration" is refering to ministry leaders?? Is restoration pertaining to the restoration of an individual back to his or her righteous state or restoring back to the ministry? Notice Paul addressed to "brothers and sisters" and said if "someone" caught in sins. Paul wasn't addressing to the leadership. He was addressing to the congregation and said if "anyone among you". This is an example of taking a scripture out of context and applying it elsewhere to introduce confusion in the body of Christ.
This was so, so well done Julie. I especially appreciated Ron’s wise words toward the end in talking about the misuse of Matthew 18 and the appalling lack of accountability in the church for wolves and perpetrators! Amen ❤❤❤
Sad that in this discussion there is little about the holiness and glory of our generous God being offended and grieved and how it cause the enemies of God to blaspheme. The church desperately needs a fresh vision of who God is.
So true !!❤
Restoration to fellowship and the body of Christ is one thing but restoration to ministry is another thing entirely.
I am having discussions/disagreements regarding being allowed to minister, after repentance and restoration because gifts and callings are without repentance. I do not agree with that. I do not have scripture to validate it. Anyone?
Thank you for your discussion on this topic. I think it’s especially important that we remind people that anyone can be reconciled to God when they repent. Reconciliation to ministry is another whole story and not the subject of that text.
Ah, narcissism. An insight that explains a lot. Thank you for that. Also, the discussion on how can you bring two or three witnesses when there's no one present except the abuser and the victim, which I've encountered personally being applied in broader application than a situation concerning an elder - your comments were very affirming and even healing for me regarding a church experience many years ago where I brought a serious issue to leadership who could not see beyond she said/he said.
Chris Volloten needs to first take accountability for his false teachings and prophecies. He would have then done a huge favour to the body of Christ.
Correct!!!
Stay away from organized Christianity
I completely agree.
Ted Haggard should be disqualified from leadership.
Mike Bickle needs to disqualified from leadership
Jim Baker needs to be disqualified from leadership.
And all those that fall into sin.
If we are going to be preaching the Word of God then we need to live by the word of God.
THANK YOU JULIE AND RON !
Let us not forget! Proverbs 6:32-33 NKJV - 2 Whoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding;
He who does so destroys his own soul.
33 Wounds and dishonor he will get,
And his reproach will not be wiped away.
This was a healthy discussion, not just a gossip session.
I appreciate listening to this! I am frustrated with listening to people trying to make excuses for the fallen Pastor. This is just insanity. They must be held to the highest of all standards. If they fall, they should repent and walk away from the pulpit and serve God in other ways. Exactly, narcissistic people are fine with preaching on the stuff they themselves are privately doing. We as the congregation need to speak and not stand for this in order to honor our church.
Thank You Julie ! We need more TRUTH and courage to speak up as you and your guests! To all the Strange and Joiners…Read the scripture and apply it correctly, please. We’ve had enough of Snake Oil, potions and poison peddling pastors in our pulpits!
when a man has a predatory decades long behavior pattern, he is a wolf, not a shepherd, not a brother, but a dangerous person. There is no "re"storation, if there's nothing to go back to. Obviously, we don't exactly know when this predatory behavior started, perhaps as a teen , we only know since his twenties, so it's a life-long pattern. , The word "restore" is not the right word to use on someone who has not ever been in any place ever of trustworthy, reliable behavior but life-long predatory abusive manipulate behavior. Where is the point you want to "restore" him to? A wolf does not become a sheep. Even how MB captured wife is predatory. Wolves don't qualify
Excellent post. Well said.
A pastor is disqualified anytime they fail to meet the qualifications (1 Timothy 3:1-8; Titus 1:5-9) or requirements (1 Peter 5:1-5) to be a pastor which are found in Scripture. It's not just one particular sin or type of sin; it's any sin that keeps them from meeting the biblical qualifications and/or requirements and renders them not "above reproach" as an example to follow and imitate. Now, the "duration" of disqualification is another issue entirely; that depends on multiple factors and is not just cut and dry or black and white. The reason is: (1) The qualifications and requirements for a pastor are all present tense in the Greek text, which means they are not referring to a person's past or future, but to the ongoing habitual actions, attitudes, and affections of the pastoral candidate right now in the present. (2) Further, the qualifications and requirements are relative to the congregation in which the pastor would serve. In other words, there are some pastors in some congregations who are qualified to serve there but would not be suited to serve somewhere else, at least at the present time. For example, a prisoner who is the pastor of a prison congregation, etc. (3) Lastly, the idea of being "above reproach" refers to being "blameless," generally speaking, in the eyes of the congregation that the person would lead as pastor. Being "above reproach" does not mean "perfect"; and, there will always be at least one person in every congregation who is a Judas or a Demas, and who will hate their pastor, but generally speaking, at a minimum, they must be viewed by the congregation they would serve as a godly example to follow because they are not presently violating those qualification and/or requirements. It's not rocket science, folks. It's pretty clear in Scripture. The problem is that people's "feelings" get involved and that clouds their discernment.
well said.
There is a difference between repentance/restoration and being in authority again.
So much respect and appreciation for the two of you and the way you handled this topic.
You rock Julie. Thanks so much for this, great hearing from Ron as well 🙏
Damage control by KV!!! Shameful
Rick Joyner is no man of credibility, but it is good to see his wayward position on Mike Bickle.
Kriss Vallotton apology= damage control. Nothing more.
Vetting and preventative measures must be rigorously applied.
Rick joyner is NOT a man we should ever listen to. He has nothing to offer us anymore. He's been so wrong so many times...and has been dishonest with us about his own past.
?about his own past? What do you know?
Did he ever have anything to offer according to sound doctrine?
@@maryjackson8189Rick did say you can take the mark of the beast with a right attitude 🤣😂
@@TendervittleYou’ve got to be kidding me. What a wolf. I pray he repents!!! Do you happen to have a clip of him saying that?
@@JessicaMcColloch it’s on UA-cam ua-cam.com/video/GTmAx5XWb2U/v-deo.htmlsi=JnkuI23Ai3raYweU
Jesus is your Spiritual leader…. Where do you get the idea that the pyramid power structure is at all Biblical?
Great program. Leaders like this make me wonder about God.
?
God has set guidelines on how people who claim to love and serve Him should act.
Their moral failings are 💯 on them because they are in disobedience to what God has demanded.
Honestly, one of the most irritating phrases I hear is: “moral failings”. It is a way to take the sting out of what actually happened, whether it be adultery, sexual abuse, perversion etc. Thank you Julie for not using such jargon, and being willing to call out the sun for what it is. I appreciate your reporting.
Thank you for such helpful and clear thinking - brilliant.
I was fuming the first time I heard those clips! I was fuming this time too! I was glad to hear you point out the utter failure of those statements!
Sexual incontinence and greed are the basic redlines. Thanks for your work.
Other scandalous behavior took place at TBN and is essentially ongoing because it was never dealt with. I find it also scandalous that Joni from Daystar married a supposedly self-confessed SA recovered therapist who has been on the Daystar show for decades as a marraige restoration thereapist with his longstanding faithful wife, whom Doug Weiss labeled as such, but Markus died and Doug stepped in as a "therapist" to counsel Joni with the grieving process. A few months in he filed for divorce from his wife and blatantly got engaged as,soon as it was finalized, while in relationship with Joni the entire time. Their engagement was announced as soon as his divorce was finalized and few months later they had a very public wedding, both lost many pounds and worked out to the teeth. This is less than 2 years after Markus died. No one has asked Doug Weiss's wife how she feels being traded in for a more glamorous model and platform. This was done very much out there publicly in every way. All you have to do is look at the history and timeline, but everyone seems ok with this. Horrible.
Wow I didn’t know that about Doug Weiss. I met him years ago when he came to speak to our mens and women’s groups at church. I found him a bit appalling - flaunting his wealth and full of himself. It was so disappointing.
yes it was very suspicious. people were praying that her eyes were opened BEFORE the wedding.
Yes I had an unsettling reaction to the whole thing. How is it ok to divorce your wife for no scriptural reason to marry a widow you grief counseled? Whaaat?!
Thanks for your thoughtful commentary on this subject. The question of if and how "fallen" Christian leaders can be restored to their former ministry roles is a difficult, if not impossible, question to definitively answer. It appears to me that a big part of the problem here is that many people find it easier to follow a charismatic leader than to follow Christ
WHY is mike bickle not in prison ?
Rosie, your sense of design and your intricate and precise joinery, along with the patience it all requires is nothing short of amazing. I realize how much you've evolved after the purchase of your lovely property. You've come along way and inspired many who are attempting to do what seems impossible in order to get away from the present culture and enjoy a tranquil a d fulfilling lifestyle....not without challenges, but with the ability to overcome them. From a 76 y/0 widow, diy'er, still at it. Blessings from the Ozarks in southern Missouri 😊
@julieroys your work is consistently excellent. Thank you!
Hi Julie
I think you make a key point when you used the word recycle concerning restoration of pastors. That’s a good point. There is a big difference between recycling a pastor and restoring in the first place.
I don’t know how all these “Christians “ are going to act toward Mike Bickle in Heaven. He will be there. God will handle it then.
Key Phrase for all of these abuses: “If you read the scripture including what’s written before and after…”
In this case Joyner and Strang do not rightly divide the Word and do lie - also disqualifying.
Julie....don't forget the woman who was having an affair with MB first....then Luke Bickle....6 years of bringing food to MB and locking themselves in his office.... The most recent one. Still others who haven't come forward... Up to maybe 10-20.... Wow
Do we have facts?
@@Kinugo1I think we need an independent investigation. The shepherd is still in hiding. When the shepherd is in sin with children it should be investigated.
@@Tendervittle no question. Sorry English is not my first language… I as a Christian I should speak the truth and not say f.e. MB has an affair with the lady first… we don’t know. It’s only interpretation. That’s the point. We can easy be over the top. Thought disciplin.
Strangles so quick to Mike Bickle restored before even acknowledging the terrible sin done against these young women! Not even a reaction oh that is terrible what he has done to these women and we pray that they be restored! Instead all they could talk about was his concern for Bickle! He makes me sick! Someone should investigate him!
Excellant presintation.
Very poor example Jim Bakker is back to his old tricks plus he preaches all about fear in all about the Bible he's making money again he's back to where he was before he's a false teacher shame on him and he has false people on his show like Rick Joyner and other people and other people
Bickle has been on Jim baker show😂😂maybe bickle will selling slop buckets on Jim bakers show soon 😂😂 what a sickness
Well, Jim Baker was certainly not exonerated as the presenters correctly noted. He had his prison sentence reduced.
Wack-A-Wolf is a great term for what is going on.
Bickel asked an IHOPKC leader to be silent, while Bickle’s son-had a sexual affair with the leader’s wife. 😮
/Bickel should be be restored??
Great video! I think part of the problem is Celebrity culture and honor culture no matter what structure you have in place. When we elevate the "Gift" over character then we have become part of the problem. We need to stop idolizing these men like a god that gives them power that strokes there ego that they think they can get away with anything. A leader must be a humble man of God and must be lowly a man of no reputation like Jesus. What are these leaders who are trying to cover up their sin doing? They are trying to protect their "reputation and ministry" They are not like Jesus. Where there is no humility then Pride will surely take over.
While plurality of elders is the most biblical NT model but plurality of elders can also be protectors or buffers put in place. We have also seen megachurches have the plurality of elders structure and oust the Pastor but he just picks up his chips and start a new church. AGAIN the "Gift" is being elevated over character.
What influential teachers like Michael Brown and others have to do is say I will not take part in any conferences or have anything to do with the ministry of anyone who has been disqualified in ministry. I would say if Rick Joyner "restores" someone like Mike Bickle have nothing to do with them. There has to be a backlash against them all. If you restore Mike Bickle then your associated with Bickle back away from then all. Let them all fall together. Our part is we will not attend any ministry etc that they are disqualified from ministry. We need to back away from their ministry because as long as they got an audience they will be back in ministry even if they committed some of the most wicked sins. Money to support their livlihood and audience. If we take both away from them then we the people can effect change.
If a pastor is someone who needs to guide people morally to follow Jesus, MB is not qualified. It doesn't matter that people thought he WAS qualified, he appears he never was. Nothing to be restored to.
I saw this behavior in a secular job in leaders. We need to be different. They are a failure as leaders in this world. Not examples to those who need help!!!!
I read a book by Mike, Passion for Jesus, that was written in 2007. I’m sorry but I can’t help but wonder who he was “grooming” while he was writing the book. Sad.
Amen! Bakker's sentence was reduced. Imprisonment did nothing to rehabilitate Baker
Thank you.
They need to get into the right relationship with Jesus Christ and follow him. Forget getting back into leadership it is not for you. Learn to walk daily with the Lord.
In all we are hearing and understanding , I’m wondering why there are no criminal charges ,,? ?
Oh please Kris was not taking responsibility, the two of you don't know when you're hearing something fake where is your discernment?
I find it disturbing that people are laughing off his irresponsible response to a request for accountability in the MB case. He called the person an idiot??? I found his whole message manipulate, selfish and disturbing.
How about…we just don’t go to church. 🤷🏻♂️🙏🌞
We. Are. The. Church.
When people say their accountability is only God, they show their ignorance. God gave dominion to man on the earth as the managers and caretakers. Moreover we are called the Body of Christ on the earth and as such are the administrators of what the head commands. It's that simple
Appreciate breaking down exposing sexual sin in the church according to the word it’s never been done that I’ve seen and crucial to come to proper understanding of the word
Disqualified? Actually almost as soon as he demands being addressed by the title of PASTOR. Jesus wasn’t picking on the words Father and Rabbi; he was showing that men who want titles are missing his point about humility and service.
Whatever happened to repentance? If a person turns from their sin and confesses it to God, the scripture say that God will forgive that person and cleans them of all unrighteousness. So how can he be kicked out of ministry when the Bible says otherwise?
Eveyone can be restored. No question.
are these Charismatic leaders really good Bible teachers??? it centeres so much on new revelations, annointings, "special ones", tithes and offerings, supernatural healings and all.....
i heard Dwayne from the "advocate group" say, he NEVER heard Bickle preach in THE CROSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
if you don_t already know it, please go see also "mega maniacs podcast" on terrible abuse in Rod Parsley's "ministry!
thank you for all, dear Julie! thank you both! God bless you and keep you
(i am from europe and only following this from sidelines, but i think those wolves in sheeps clothing also just abused THE WORD for their own wicked purposes, and i am not saying all are wolves but Bickle, Morris, Parsley and sure many more are)
So disappointed in Stephen Strang. Misrepresenting and misapplying the scriptures. Misrepresenting various situations with other “fallen” leaders. Shame on him. 😓…and then there’s “Restoration Rick”🤦🏼♀️.
As someone who was raised in the Assemblies of God (and in a pretty moderate congregation), I can attest that it doesn’t have a great system for "restoration." My aunt and her second husband actually left the Assemblies of God because their rules on divorce prevented him from serving as he once had, even though his divorce was very much biblical (he and his first wife were having problems in their marriage, so they went to a friend for counseling, and she ended up cheating on him _with the counselor)._
Really, though, the whole charismatic movement is conducive to abuse, because people can use supposed visions, prophecies, and revelations from God to manipulate people into supporting their agenda, and people buy into it regardless of the leader's moral character; it's a perfect environment for a narcissistic leader. And since denominations like the AoG teach the universality of speaking in tongues, which the Bible doesn’t support, if you find yourself unable to speak in tongues and are too honest to fake it, you'll find yourself constantly questioning your spiritual development and salvation.
True holiness Andrew discernment at a All Time Low no wonder why no one really wants to accept the false Jesus that these people portray that's why why is the road that leads to destruction and many go there in narrow is the way that leads to eternal life in few be that find it I really believe the true Remnant is probably maybe 30% if we're lucky
THESE TEACHERS ARE GOD'S JUDGEMENT ON THE CHURCH
It was super disappointing to hear the Kris Volaton statements on Mike Bickel from the pulpit. Calling someone an idiot and talking about it for the congregation to laugh is reprehensible. I’ve known Kris since his and Bill Johnson’s days in Weaverville. Those were days of REVIVAL and I didn’t attend their church. Our entire AREA of nobodies on the “down river” Indian reservation experienced revival.
Kris was a dynamic pastor for families, husband and wife relationships. Kris has been excellent in relating to struggling marriages. He and Bethel are NOT strangers to sexual abuse victims. I’m telling you the truth when I say I was told by an employee of one of Bethel’s off campus churches there was one under the direction of almost entirely sex abuse survivors because Bethel saw the need. He was a family member and wasn’t lying to me. He said he had no idea sexual abuse was that prevalent until he worked there. I’m not making this up. I told my family member I thanked God he didn’t know about sexual abuse, he may be one in hundreds of people I know.
I’m a survivor and have been struggling with this garbage of IHOP KC. My foster sister had her world ripped from beneath her by a molestation and proposition of her pastor to be his special daughter. We were both 16 at the time. My step father was assistant police chief AND a predator. She was running away from her once stable home because it became too dangerous. Into OUR unsafe home. To the CHURCH with an unsafe pastor!!!
But to the outside world we were the assistant police chief’s kids.
There are millions of these stories and it is time to STOP allowances.
I have a solution.
I advocate for a self sustained island of no return, guarded by armed drones and alligators. Serve the rest of their life with a population of their peers. Whatever happens? God help them. We aren’t giving them the death penalty but protecting society. Society should be protected from Mike Bickel. I would send him there in case he’s wondering. He is one person I doubt reads the comments in videos made referring him.
People so quick to think restoration are going to have a problem there. Abba will finish what he started. The guest speaker said there was a lot more which hasn’t been revealed in the IHOP … …. I don’t even know what to call it. Scandal is not the right word. Y’all know what I mean.
Let God be true and every man a liar.
Let God arise and His enemies be scattered.
Shalom and Godspeed in Jesus name Saints.
Thank you Julie Roys and guest.
If Jesus doesn't change people then what are we all doing here? Anyone can be restored from anything. Samson, Peter, David. Moses killed a man trying to be a judge in the flesh, 40 years later he was back leading again in the Spirit.
Deliverance is needed for these pastors!
That's if they want it
Laughter does nog surprise me. That it is women that laugh the loudest, blows my mind.
To the folks laughing about this, how would you feel if the first two words here were "Catholic Priest..."
No different. MB either belongs behind bars or in the back of the church, learning from a true Pastor in humble submission, AFTER repentance to his victims.
I think we should be careful that we don’t give the impression that moral failure happens mostly in Charismatic churches as opposed to other denominations. Also women who do come forward after having a “season” of immoral engagements do feel some sense of shame and rightly so even though we consider them victims of a predator pastor. There’s some shared guilt even though yes the greater deeper guilt does come from the older manipulative person.