Perfectly stupid from a guy who is trying to promote his book by going after the best tennis player. She doesn't deserve that. Why cannot be a woman be the best tennis player every but it has to be a man? Just because of gender and body ability to be more physical? McEnroe is making a fool of himself. Serena is waaay more successful the McEnroe was. He mad :)
dizza213 SW success doesn't mean a hill of beans, because her achievements are against women Therefore it is idiotic to say she is the greatest tennis player ever. It also undermine the men and the greats of ATP She can't beat Rodger Federer, Rafeal Nadal,or the 1000 ranked player on the men's tour go emasculate someone else
dizza213 the Uconn Women's basketball team has the greatest winning streak of all time but w would get wiped by majority of NCAA men's teams. You can't be the greatest ever if there are people better than you
I personally could never consider a woman eligible to be the greatest ever tennis player, male or female, because the quality and especially the depth of the competition in the women's game is a shadow of what it is in the men's game. If you've watched the Grand Slams you'll notice that it's not uncommon for a top-ranked player to be forced into a grueling five-setter in the early rounds by some virtual unknown who's not even ranked in the top 50. Occasionally, they'll even lose a match to such a player. This very rarely happens on the women's side. Usually, the top women roll over the competition in the early rounds, their matches lasting barely an hour. Ultimately, what I'm trying to say is that sports have long been and will continue to be a way for men to compare themselves to their peers, not to mention a way to attract attention from the opposite sex. This has never been true for women and probably never will be. This helps explain why the competition in men's sports, not just tennis, is so fierce and the women's seems rather anemic in comparison. I hope I've been able to explain my thoughts on this subject well enough for you to see where I'm coming from.
Of course she cannot beat Federer or Nadal but she still has more Grand Slam titles and success than them as a tennis player...and she is with the better career ;) get it? Statements like "SW success doesn't mean a hill of beans, because her achievements are against women" are idiotic indeed :) Federer and Nadal's achievements are against men so they all have the same level of competition per gender. Serena has just achieved more than them ;) simple as that! And what about McEnroe...he is not even in the conversation of greatness compared to Serena Williams, Federer or Nadal. Even Venus has more titles than him LOL.
Garrett Arnell *She actually played vs a guy ranked less than #200* and she lost by far 6-1 and 6-0 So 700 is not that far... maybe she would be 600?? c'mon, it was pretty accurated!!
"If I played Andy Murray I would lose 6-0 6-0 in 5 maybe 10 minutes..." That was a quote DIRECTLY FROM SERENA WILLIAMS. So, if SHE thought she'd get COMPLETELY BLOWN outta water by a top 10/20 MENS player at that time, WHAT in the F, makes people (who don't know ANYTHING about tennis) think that she could consistently compete with THE TOP 700 MEN IN THE WHOLE WORLD? Just Makes me think. Ya knows.
I was ranked within the top 600 in the world and can personally attest that anyone ranked on the ATP tour and even most D1 College should be able to beat Serena pretty handily. That’s no offense or disrespect to Serena or women’s tennis as I have coached many top female players on tour. It’s just a different sport theoretically speaking. She is the best female player of all time. However, men’s tennis is so different. Ball speed, movement speed, spin rate, etc. One of my college teammates played against Caroline Wozniacki when she was #1 in the world and beat her 6-1. He didn’t even make our starting line up, we were playing our college match and he played a set against her so she could prepare for the WTA tournament the next week on campus.
How is she the greatest female player of all time? Martina Navratilova had 3&1/2 times more titles. And Serena was found to be taking steroids and pain killers.
I'm a woman, I'm in law enforcement and a lot of my female coworkers try to say they can do everything men can do physically, this is a huge mistake which can get you killed; you can do the same job as well, but not the same way!! You must know your strengths AND LIMITATIONS in order to be safe and get the job done well.
I think you are absolutely correct. In my 20's I was a kick-boxer. at 50 I was still very fast, could bench 218lbs. 30 reps. and run a 4.5 40 yd I have never seen any woman that strong. NEVER. story: a female police officer jumped in my face one night over nothing. Now I also had been a pastor for 20 years and was a very respectable and sensible guy but still I'm a man and I couldn't help but think: "woman if I was a criminal I could knock you out before you saw me flinch."Now in my entire life even before I was "walking w Jesus" I never talked back to the police NEVER. I just always thought that was a stupid move for losers. Flip side could be she had street instinct and could read I really wasn't a threat, and I wasn't for sure because I abide by the law. to boot I had two dependent children at home but my point is if she misread me, for sure she could've gotten hurt by a thug-hearted guy. she was too cocky IMO and if she thought I was compliant because she was cocky she was entirely wrong, but she was in uniform and I respect that plain and simple. fact is, I'm grateful people serve as officers cause I don't want to have to carry heat and be prepared every day to gun down some criminally insane thug. just a guy who knows it takes people to enforce the law for there to be a rule of law and for society to b have any civility. thank you! stay-safe.
Clint Eastwood famously said, A man has got to know his limitations. I said once that a woman has got to know her limitations and people freaked out. I thought wow, it made so much sense when he said it about men, put the word woman instead and its a horrible sexist thing?
The smartest and most sensible comment made on this scroll. Thank you, Kamel. You help reality reestablish itself among the fair tale writers in our present society. Your like that EMS driver that's picking up the dope who thought he or she could walk in front of a speeding truck because their gender gave them the incentive.
the "Woke" world is actually asleep at their keyboards trying to find injustice. The injustice in this world is that there are still people starving and homeless, rather than whether male and females tennis players should be treated as the same.
They're lucky he has softened, if they'd tried this thirty years ago, he would've brutally embarrassed and ridiculed them til they ran screamin for their mommies.
I dated a girl who played college tennis. I was a good athlete - but never played tennis for reals. She wanted to play as practice for her - and she wanted to know if I could return the ball if she hit it hard. We "played" three times in two weeks - and I did OK the first time - I beat her the second time - and I killed her the third time. She got really mad - we never played again - and that was the beginning of the end of dating.
I think what I respect the most is how positive and supportive he continues to be towards Serena whenever he mentions her, also for the record Serena herself never had a problem with him saying it.
To be fair, Serena issued a tweet asking John to please keep her name out of his mouth, unless saying something factually based, and to respect her privacy while she cares for her baby. I get the feeling the only reason she tweeted it, wasn't because she was mad at him or upset about it, just that it caused so much controversy, her phone probably dinged off the hook from all the twits who were going ape about it. Her and John are both very classy peeps, imo, and there is no beef or bad blood or anything like that. She certainly didn't try to argue his opinion on the matter either.
She is quite childish fom time to time. Her breaking her racket and trying to play "women card" when she was beaten by another woman and when that didnt work out she tried to use "race card" on judge that was same race than her. And then she started crying.
Kent Murray - what was he suppose to expect from stupid broadcasting network NPR? They try and make it seem like women’s basketball is just as competitive as mens.
It's the lack of tact or class, that's all. If your child won a local tennis tournament, and I said, "Well this is just a local tennis tournament for children. Your child would get smoked at the state level (or next age bracket, etc)." Would you nod and say, "Now this is a very accurate statement. Doesn't diminish this local accomplishment at all because it is very accurate." Or would you say, "Hey, let my son (or daughter) appreciate this trophy and don't be so condescending." I ask you, which is the better response? All people are saying here is that he lacked class or tact in the comment and as a professional commentator he should have the training to regain some of that class by not doubling down.
@@TheLastWalenta Stupid analogy because children in local tennis tournaments aren't being compared universally to adult tennis players as objectively equal in capabilities! There is a political agenda that is polarizing the entire western world to some degree, and pretending that it is insignificant or non-existent, doesn't help a damn thing. There is nuance that absolutely needs recognizing in these discussions, and refusing to even acknowledge the importance of discussion is poisonous. Talk biology, talk history, talk future, talk politics, talk prejudice, talk sociology, talk culture, talk identity, talk about the layers of nuance, perspective and significance. DON'T talk about ridiculous analogies focussed entirely on your one dimensional emotional reduction. Your general interpretation of the world around us is part of the greater problem!
@@jaxjester997 The thing about analogies is, there must be a difference for it to work. The whole idea is to take something different and compare it in a similar way to something else to highlight its similarity. You can dismiss every analogy as “stupid” and then simply highlight the difference (age vs gender in this case) over the similarity (degrading an accomplishment because there are better levels somewhere else). The analogy is valid whether or not you are okay with the thought. I never said Serena was better than the men: I am simply highlighting the unnecessary way her (pretty amazing) accomplishments were unnecessarily diminished by saying she would be no better than 700 at the next level. The NPR lady is in the industry of information: the idea that she legitimately asked why Serena isn’t as good as men could be interpreted as “I don’t understand because I don’t follow tennis. Explain to my viewers why.” You took it as, “Serena is better than men so let’s argue.” I heard the exchange: I got the former sentiment, not the latter. The tone here was the issue, not the message. Relax.
John is great to listen to because although he’s competitive and wants to be right he’s also honest and open minded and generally well intentioned. Serena’s response pretty much sums up what I think of her. Defensiveness usually means you’re guilty about something.. ? Using technology to enhance your game..
Years ago on " ABC's Wide World of Sports" they showed the number one ranked female kickboxer do a promotional fight against the number one ranked male. The woman took it seriously and the guy was just foolin around. He told her to cool it a couple times and then she caught him in the land down under...he did a spin move and dropped her like a bad habit. I thought the announcers were going to have a heart attack. McEnroe is 100% correct and it's absurd to think anything else.
I remember when Chrissie Everett was the #1 ranked female in the world and was crushing all the girls and a talking head ask her had she considered playing the men and Chrissie said "let me put it this way, my younger brother grew up in our tennis family and is a pretty good club player but has never qualified for the tour and I have never taken a set off him in my life".
That's true but only in so far as the women ought to be playing best of 5 if they're getting paid the same... If we paid players less for not giving us a competitive match then Roger Rafa and Novak would have deprived a lot of players of paychecks over the years...
It’s possible to appreciate and admire Serena’s accomplishments and how great she’s been for female tennis AND be of the opinion that she’d not win a singular game against the 700th male ranked player. Her salty response is a shame but obviously totally expected. Still, she’s a true champ and has been a blessing for tennis, women’s tennis is so dull in the post Serena era
Ангел Цветилов They can deny it and they are denying it, People are stupid. Truth is even stating Serena would have a chance against the number 700 is a stretch, personally I would say she cannot even beat number 1500. Any male pro or semi pro is going to beat her, Serena will be able to beat the majority of male amateurs I think but that is how far you can push it.
exactly so rather than engage in the debate and name a number- why didn't he just say exactly what you said! FAR more respectable to the fairer sex who cannot help their anatomies and biological positioning
John McEnroe is one of the most interesting commentators in tennis. Too bad we live in a stupid, hyper-sensitive woke world - it gets so tiring having to listen to the PC police b.s. after someone like Mac simply answers questions he's asked in a truthful, forthright manner.
It's the lack of tact or class, that's all. If your child won a local tennis tournament, and I said, "Well this is just a local tennis tournament for children. Your child would get smoked at the state level." Would you nod and say, "Now this is a very accurate statement. Doesn't diminish this local accomplishment at all because it is very accurate." Or would you say, "Hey, let my son (or daughter) appreciate this trophy and don't be so condescending." I ask you, which is the better response? All people are saying here is that he lacked class or tact in the comment and as a professional commentator he should have the training to regain some of that class by not doubling down.
@@TheLastWalenta So, as a professional commentator talking about a professional player he should have lied to make certain people feel good??? What a pathetic sentiment. And what a terrible comparison. Serena isn't some little kid playing in a local tournament. She's a professional who's won many trophies and millions of dollars.
Greetings from England, I just love John McEnroe, legendary player, straight talker & we really appreciate his commentaries here @ Wimbledon Every year, RESPECT to the man !
Seems like McEnroe is as sick of this crap as I am. Good man. Completely forgot about Connors/Navratilova. The thing that really struck me about that one was the aftermath, the big takeaway from the spectacle... NOTHING. Not even a "Well, _that_ sucked." It began, it ended, and ten minutes later everyone completely forgot about the pointless spectacle. _And rightfully so._
I love John McEnroe he’s one of the best Tennis players and Tennis Analyst. I really believe he’s accurate that Serena is great player but playing on Mens Tour she would be ranked very low.
@@peterang6912 Ah, I was actually thinking "the man tour" would sound pretty cool, but the left would have a conniption fit if they tried to call it that. It's surprising they still allow it to be gender specific🤦♂
I love John McEnroe... he has enough cojones to speak his mind! John asks why don't they do this in other sports... well they did. In my opinion, Annika Sorenstam is the greatest golf champion and golf competitor ever on the women's tour as I am guessing John M and a large percent of the world would agree. As great as she was, she could not even make the cut on the men's tour... and I was rooting for her to do so! Even though she was not good enough to make the cut let alone challenge for the lead... I still think she is one of the greatest golf champion's ever and I have have a ton of respect for her!
Do people not realise Serena did challenge the number 200 player in the world a few years ago at the ausdtrqlian open. She lost 6-1. She later said she would like to challenge the 350 ranked player
Serena would be in trouble if she played one of the Top 5 seeds of a US Men's High School State Tennis Tournament .. Top 18 year old High Schooler in 1 of the 50 states? Serena would get clobbered.
McEnroe speaks the truth and Serena knows it. I think Serena knows she couldn't beat whoever is ranked 250. She just needs to save face and keep her brand up so she posted that tweet.
I grew up watching John McEnroe at the height of his popularity in the 80's..as controversial as he was on the tennis court and out,he was ONE HELL of a player and he is right women can't compete with men in tennis or any type of sports for that matter..in the late 90's Serena and Venus Williams who are ranked the best in the world in the female circuit, claimed they could beat any man above the 200 world ranking for men and were challenged by a German player Karsten Braasch who at the time was ranked 203 in the mens circuit he was not in his top physical shape,was nursing a hangover having drunk the previous night and was smoking cigars between game breaks, while both of the Williams sisters were in the best shape of their lives and guess what..he still beat them both back to back like they owed him money..when it comes to strength,speed and endurance, men will always come on top..so this politically correct,whiny and crybaby generation and fucking feminists NEED to get over it!
Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple of bottles of ice cold lager". The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park, after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two shandies. He first took on Serena and after leading 5-0, beat her 6-1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6-2. Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun" and that the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier and put spin on the ball that female players could not handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.
The next week Braasch had fallen in the rankings from 203 to the 350s. "Apparently, after the game, Serena and Venus immediately told the press they wanted to challenge a male player again," Braasch said. "This time they revised the ranking of the man they wanted to face, to 350 in the world. I informed the journalist who told me this that in the next week I was set to lose a lot of ATP points and drop down to 350 in the rankings. I told him that if Venus and Serena waited just one week they could challenge me all over again!"
I played USTA Juniors tennis as a kid, and was probably about two small steps away from being professional caliber. I've played and watched the game my entire life. McEnroe is correct. The famous Billie Jean King / Bobby Riggs match (where King 'won') was two things; 1) Riggs was long retired and about 20-25 years older than King; and 2) He wasn't even playing with effort. Another point. Look up Kaarsten Braasch and the Williams sisters - if you're curious about more. I'll load the Wikipedia detail here: {{ Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple bottles of ice cold lager". The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park, after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two beers. He first took on Serena and after leading 5-0, beat her 6-1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6-2. Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun". Braasch said the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier, and that men put spin on the ball that the women can't handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.}} That Braasch match was a younger and fitter Serena. She got 1 game off a guy ranked 203. Extrapolate to thinking about touring - Men's tennis (5 set matches, instead of 3) - and actually WINNING matches (not just 1 single game)? Nope - she'd be LUCKY to be ranked 700. She might not even crack the top 1000.
I was a marginal HS player, but held the No. 1 singles title on my team for a short period. I won my college intramural doubles championship at a Div. 1 school. I played a gal on the UCLA tennis team, a doubles player, and took a set. Which kind of blew my mind. I bet a good college men's player could beat Serena. It's not her fault. 15 year old boys can dunk like no problem, and how many of the women pros can play above the rim. I feel like Mac got baited into the question. He's called her one of the greatest athletes of our time. Didn't qualify that. Maybe he's been taken down the Serena v. the Men question so many times, he thought that was what interviewer was asking him.
IQ - That's correct. The power and court coverage is just at another level. Not to mention both serve and return - the power and pace on both. Yes - guys ranked 500, 600, 700 are really just a few decent satellite tournament match wins away from being 200 - and then - you're knocking on the door at the very top in the world. Being in the top 1000 in anything is pretty impressive - but the difference in the men's and women's games (like in every other sport) is just night and day - no comparison.
Blarney Stone -- I would love to see a dude have to use a wood racket and play her. That would be fun. I wonder if it would make enuff of a difference at their level to give her a fighting chance against a top 1000 player.
I think a lot of top players would still whip her - even with a wood racquet. Hands and feel guys especially - like a Federer type. I went out a few years ago - with a buddy I play a lot with. We broke out some old wood racquets for about 10 minutes. The pace is way down, a few more mis-hits, but we were fine. I was raised on wood racquets though - so that all came back pretty quickly. I think even McEnroe - even at his age - would kick the sh!t out of her - if they were playing a serious match.
Blarney Stone -- yeah -- my college tennis pal and I dusted them off for playing on grass courts a year ago. Similar experience. But, at the level and precision the elite play at -- I wonder if it would make a bigger difference.
“I hate to see this comparing” That’s what happens when you start trying to claim Serena is the greatest tennis player in the world, it’s just factually incorrect because the comparison has been made
Serena is the GOAT. She has done things no man or woman has done. She won a grand slam while pregnant. Name a man who can or has done it? I'm waiting? Men can't do what women can do. So any comparison is mute. Men stay in your lane.
@@GH-hu8rp no one is saying men can play while pregnant - what a ridiculously illogical argument. We are saying that men are biologically stronger, faster, and more athletic than women. Of course there are exceptions, which is why Serena could still beat many of the best men players, but certainly not ALL of them. Put the best of the men against the best of the women and there is no contest.
@@spencergsmith the fastest man cannot beat the top mens players, neither can the strongest man beat a top mens player. Tennis is athletic but more about skill and mental acumen. The point is to make comparison based on sex is not a true comparison. It is apples and oranges. It just makes less enhanced men feel better about themselves. Let's celebrate both sexes. I actually prefer watching more of the top women than the top men. Both bring entertainment. The women tend to be more skilled.
@@GH-hu8rp I never said the fastest or strongest man can beat the top tennis player. I said that male tennis players are faster, stronger, and generally more athletic than female tennis players. Whether you stack up the best against the best, or the averages of both, men beat women 999 times out of 1,000. Serena, while an incredible tennis player, is no exception. She even stated in an interview from years prior that she would perform terribly in the men's professional circuit. I love celebrating both sexes, and I'm glad you prefer watching women to men. That's your prerogative, and has no bearing on how skilled or athletic anyone else. I would argue that "the women tend to be more skilled" is simply not true. It's been demonstrated time and time again that men outperform women in physical contests given the same level of experience and conditions of play. Pretending this isn't true doesn't benefit anyone. There is a reason we have men's and women's leagues in almost every major sport, because if we tried to combine them, there would be almost no professional women athletes.
@@spencergsmith Not many men can volley better that BJK or either Martina. They brute force it. It's boring to watch. You don't play tennis obviously so you can't see the difference. The Russian guy Medvedev ,who recently won the US open, he is a poor volleyer., his ground stroke technique while effective is in poor form, which is why he plays so far back, it's not going to serve him in later years when he cannot run as much. He would win more and would have won earlier if he had better skills at the net and better stroke production.
She would not have beaten Floyd in the octagon, ring, schoolyard playground, the alley, neighborhood barbeque, the family reunion, the circus, carnival, or whatever you want to name. She would not have been able to touch Floyd.
700 is extremely generous. Extremely. That's McEnroe panicking in his mind, thinking he doesn't want to be too harsh here. In reality, Serena would have her hands full at the college level. She wouldn't be able to go pro and make enough prize money to afford those travel expenses.
funny how people that don't know anything about tennis get all uppity about this. any decent D1 college male would beat her. decent run-of-the-mill D1 college player is an equivalent of a 2000's rank ATP player. or maybe even unranked, as not all D1 players that try going pro after college manage to even get a single ATP point. serena would not be getting an ATP point.
Let's use an objective measure. The 100m world record for women is FloJo's 10.49sec established in 1988. No woman has even come close to that record in some time. The most recent top time is 10.70sec by Elaine Thompson of Jamaica in the 2016 Olympics. The men's 100m world record was already 10.4 in 1921 (Charles Paddock). In fact, with a time of 10.49sec a man cannot compete in the Olympics. His time would below the qualification standard. Hence, one can estimate that the top 100m woman sprinter would probably be ranked about 700 amongst the men's 100m runners. Clearly, one cannot compare men and women athletes against each other. This doesn't in any way diminish the accomplishments of the women. In sports, one competes against one's peers and one's greatness is determined by how well one performs against one's peers. Serena, Elaine Thompson, Muhammad Ali, Babe Didrikson, Diana Taurasi, Tom Brady, LeBron James, Messi et al are all great at their sports. McEnroe is only guilty of poor judgment. He probably shouldn't have allowed himself to be baited into answering a question that would only get the Twitterverse working in overdrive.
Exactly. Plus, if people think it's sexist, then the sport itself should stop dividing women and men, as simple as that. Call it tennis and everyone is welcome to compete. McEnroe always speaks highly of Serena, and so would any fan of the game. She's a rock star, but it's biology.. she simply cannot compete with the likes of Federer and Nadal. They are faster and more powerful. She might know what to do in every situation and be a tennis genius, but how could she deal with Roddick's service game or Nadal's forehands. In her sport (women's tennis) she is amazing and in general she is one of the best athletes ever, but the question was leading and he simply answered it honestly. People need to relax. I, on the other hand, am not very good and my girlfriend beats me all the time lol :)
that 10.49 is very likely under the use of drugs. I can't believe a record like that would still exist 30 years later without some "stimulant" to have had a hand in it
I agree with your comment, although I think that 700 is a bit generous. It is likely that there are thousands of men and boys in the world who can run faster than 10.70s. The 15 year old boys 100m record is 10.20s, and there are many guys who run under 10.70s and don't make it as pro sprinters. I lived in a medium sized town growing up and there were a couple of guys from my town who could run around 10.70s, so it is likely that there are a couple of guys in most medium sized towns who can run those sort of times.
love john speaks his truth & says what a lot of people do not have the integrity or guts to say. He is one of the greatest broadcasters so interesting. Bravo. John Bravo Serena. Can we move on
The fact were talking about a 58 year old man having a chance at beating the best woman's player ever in her prime should tell you how truly superior men are.
Dan Patrick is pretty ignorant for a sports reporter. The fact is Serena DID play the male ranked around 203 years ago. His name is Karsten Braasch, and he was messing around smoking and drinking beer while he played, and he still destroyed both Serena and Venus without trying. The truth is top high school boys can destroy Serena Williams.
I knew about that battle too but from what i remember it was late 90's or very early 2000's and i'm not sure what has happened since. I know that she has gotten better since but the talent pool in the mens division could be much deeper now so i find it very difficult to know where she would rank.
to be fair that match was played when Serena was in her teen years and just starting to break into the world wide scene…….if they had played 10 years later or more it would have been a different match……having said this…ive watched the best men and women play live and they fact remains men are just physically stronger and faster and that difference makes all the difference in competition. the fast stronger man beats the less strong faster man most of the time and so it goes regardless of gender.
Summarized this whole incident since it bugged the shit out of me: The men's and women's tours are two different leagues. Serena has described them as almost two different sports. Actually, there isn't a men's tour. There's the ATP tour. It's comprised of all men, but there is no rule that women can't play. There's the WTA tour, which is segregated. Women only. This rule allows women's tennis to exist, otherwise the WTA would also be populated entirely by men, effectively doubling the size of the ATP. Women's tennis existing is an important thing. It makes money (not nearly as much as the ATP, but a lot) and it inspires girls and women. So it's good to have a separate woman's league. The leagues also have different rules, by the way. The women's tour allows on-court coaching, they use lighter balls at many events, and the biggest difference is the best-of-3 vs best-of-5 set format. Women never play more than 3 sets. Men go up to 5 sets. That's a huge difference, especially as you get older. It gets harder and harder to win those back-to-back 5 setters as you get older. That's why comparing Serena's 23 majors to Federer's 18 majors is ridiculous. Federer has it much harder than her. More sets, tougher, deeper competition. I'd be interested to see the comparison in the mileage on their bodies. I wouldn't be surprised if Federer has 3 or 4 times the mileage. He has had to work so much harder to achieve his greatness. And just compare their highlight reels. Actually, I've never once seen a Serena highlight reel. She doesn't do anything really crazy out there. She doesn't have to. Just stand on the baseline, BANG, BANG, and another little girl bites the dust. But some women, including Serena, decided to start some controversy. They started this talk of "why do they say best FEMALE player? Why can't they just say best player?" Serena started to get a chip on her shoulder, thinking she was a victim. Feminists started this movement of calling her the greatest tennis player, period. Not prefacing it with "female," which to them is insulting. McEnroe was asked, is Serena the best female tennis player ever? He said absolutely yes. This, by the way, is still arguable. Steffi Graf's career is more impressive in a lot of ways, and she was also a better athlete. Graf was actually regarded as Olympic quality. There's this idea that Serena is this super athlete. Not really. Her movement is lethargic, lazy. She's often off balance. She makes up for it with incredible ball striking (which is possible because the women she plays against tee up the ball nicely for her to wallop.) Her straight sprinting speed is pretty good for a female tennis player, but not the best (and would be considered horrible for a male - a man who moves that badly better be 7 feel tall and make up for it with his serve). Usain Bolt once attended one of her matches. She said she asked him afterwards if she could have been a sprinter. "No." That's all he said. Too polite to say "fuck no." Then the female interviewer asked him, why say female? Why not just the best tennis player, period? Uh...because that wouldn't be a factual statement. And here we are. Arguing about a basic fact of biology I learned when I was 5 years old watching the Olympics when I asked my mom if that female sprinter could beat the men, and my mom treated me like I was stupid for thinking that women were as strong as men. Why are we arguing about this? Because it's the latest feminist cause, grounded in emotion and hurt feelings, and some of us are handicapped in our need to be rational, to make sense. We're better off shutting the fuck up, and not answering these questions. "But Mr. McEnroe, why not just say she's the best tennis player ever, period. Why do you have to use the 'female' qualifier?" "Fair enough. Fair enough." "So do you agree?" "Hey, fair enough. Fair enough. Now, let's get back to the book I'm selling."
Excellent, the five set thing is astonishing. Federer played 15 sets in three five set matches and he had to play four other matches as well..Serena played 12 sets altogether to win the Women's singles...case closed...
This thing about sets is a dumb argument. We're framing male and female's abilities by proportion, so you can't talk about quantities without creating proportions to use in comparisons instead of straight up numbers. I agree absolutely with everything else you've said though.
"That's all you needed to say. You threw out the 700 number..." Pay attention, Dan. McEnroe was asked: "Why not just say she's the best *player*, rather than the best female player?"
I don't know why more flak hasn't been directed at the NPR interviewer for posing such a mealy-mouthed, passive-aggressive, inuendo-laden question in the first place.
Just curious: Do you think McEnroe in 2017 could beat a non-pregnant Serena? I don't think he could. But McEnroe in his prime would destroy her. IMO...What do you think?
I had to live to the day where McEnroe will be f....g politically correct. 700th?! It is absolutely impossible for her to get even close to 2000th. And that is me being "correct"!
Zebra M Sorry, it was even worse then I remember. The Women's National Soccer Team for Australia lost 7-0 to the under 15 year old boys of the Newcastle Jets team. So the best Female Soccer players in Australia lost to a a bunch of kids 15 or younger that play for local Soccer Club in Australia, the Newcastle Jets.
stick to the point. you were butthurt that females lose at most sports, due to simple nature. serena was butthurt and all feminists are butthurt, yet NONE of them suggest man and women join in 1 league and play altogether. why not? equality is key right? shouldnt serena before pronouncign herself as the best in ALL of tennis, actually play the other 50% of tennis and PROVE that she is the best. i am sure federer is up for it, is serene also?
Notice that not one of the talking heads who has admonished McEnroe for his comments has ever answered his question - 'where would YOU rank her then?' Not one. And it's because they all know full well that he's right. Over the course of a season, she'd get an upset win or two (most players do), but the totality of her results throughout the year would depress her ranking to a point where she absolutely would be in the high hundreds if she was forced to play on the men's circuit.
Uh, the Williams Sisters almost 20 years ago said they could beat any man that had a worse than 200 ranking, so a guy who was 203rd took them up on the offer, and he destroyed them back to back 6-1 and 6-2. Not only that, the guy was a smoker and drinker, and on that day played Golf and drank two beers before the match, and even said he played that day intentionally at a 500 or so ranking just to make it fun, thus not his best, yet he still killed them. In fact, Serena I think herself even said on David Letterman that she would be ranked much lower if she played men. So, this is all bulldonkey... to me. I mean, the women's soccer team who think they should be paid MORE than the men (in overall pay and benefits) lost to a HIGH SCHOOL boys soccer team. They are lying Leftists, because when you calculate their actual earnings, they already got paid more than the men as even the initial Judge ruled, throwing out the case if I remember right. They were simply "jealous" that in their championship win they didn't get the same "cash bonus" as the men did. Watch Nate the Lawyers 3 or so videos he's done on women's soccer... Leftists are BAD people... Oh, and to further show how bad of human beings they are, they then were offered the MENS deal, and they REJECTED IT...
I have no clue who she could or couldn't beat, but I'm sure McEnroe does. I don't think he was trying to be disrespectful. She should play someone ranked about where she thinks she belongs and that way everyone will have a better idea and could let it rest. I'm sure ESPN would pay them a decent price.
I always loved John, he made me laugh when he played. There are no corners to John I thought, what you see, is what there is, and I loved that about him.
I don't know why he needs to explain. He was being kind to her when he said she'd be in the top 700. There are no less than 10,000 high school varsity boys players in the U.S., alone, that would manhandle the greatest professional female player, ever
Dan is so sexist to suggest that women don't even deserved to be compared to women....BTW Dan, Serena did play a lower ranked and older pro male and got smoked 6-1 as he also smoked a cig on the change overs.
First of all john mc enroe isnt wrong and no matter what men and women accomplish in sports there are boundaries set apart by BIOLOGY. Plus, john mc enroe actually knows about tennis and played it unlike the people criticizing him.
To say that Serena at that time would be ranked 700th on the tour is likely a generous estimation. It's an extremely competitive environment, and the men around 700 in ranking are going to be as physically tough as many of the top 50-100. To say that Serena could compete with them - possibly over 3-4 sets - is a big leap. In Serena's own words: "Men's tennis and women's tennis are two almost completely different sports" Even if Serena can be said to be the greatest female tennis-player ever, if we're going to erase 'female' from that sentence, it automatically calls for comparison between men and women. I say that comparison is just about non- sensical. Apples and oranges
You all know Serena already played a male tennis player around 2000 that was ranked 203 at the time and he beat her 6 to 1 all the while drinking beer and smoking during changeovers. He followed up by beating her sister Venus 6 to 2. Let that sink in folks, then just celebrate her for what she is... One of the best women's tennis player the world has ever seen. What's wrong with that?
I think the guy was 205 at the time... in his interview he claimed he had to play like a 500 player to keep things competitive How true that is is hard to ascertain...
you can't ask an honest straight shooter a question because John McEnroe happens. If you strictly take his 700 ranking statement alone then you will never understand how much he admires and respects Serena.
Dan "these 250th ranked guys haven't been in the moment" .. Wrong.. Yes they have. Even the 250th ranked Mens Tennis Player has won Tournaments, State Championships, NCAA Championships, Invitationals.
She won't even make the atp , there are male teens who could beat her on the national and state level ,even i was a national level tennis player under 18 i think if i played my best game even i could beat her it would be difficult but yeah i could
@@strawhat5633 Exactly. Rafael Nadal was ranked 811th when he was 15 and he would have absolutely smoked Serena back then. Women perform on the level of 13-14 year old boys.
@@carlosmoran1366 If it is raised then its fair. For a while Serena was being lauded as the best tennis player on the planet, its about as fair as saying that Murray is the only tennis player with two olympic gold medals. Setting the record straight is fine, focussing on the number rather than the truth is cowardly.
It's the lack of tact or class, that's all. If your child won a local tennis tournament, and I said, "Well this is just a local tennis tournament for children. Your child would get smoked at the state level (or next age bracket, etc)." Would you nod and say, "Now this is a very accurate statement. Doesn't diminish this local accomplishment at all because it is very accurate." Or would you say, "Hey, let my son (or daughter) appreciate this trophy and don't be so condescending." I ask you, which is the better response? All people are saying here is that he lacked class or tact in the comment and as a professional commentator he should have the training to regain some of that class by not doubling down.
@@TheLastWalenta Your example is not like to the comments made by Mr. McEnroe. Firstly, the comparison of classes in the child analogy you site is incongruent to making the statement how the top women's player wouldn't be able to compete at the highest levels of the men's game. Ms. Williams, while extremely talented, wouldn't survive. Thus, we have men's and women's tours. Mr. McEnroe comments were taken entirely out of context. He's absolutely correct and tact has nothing to do with this.
@@AGTsakumis No one is saying anything about the truth of McEnroe's commentary. We all know it's true. It's the dismissive and condescending way he said it. He was challenged by the NPR woman about Serena being the best all time. Everyone who knows anything about tennis knows that she isn't. The host probably doesn't know anything about tennis, and asked the question in a potentially serious discussion. I heard it. McEnroe said she wouldn't even beat the top 700 players, essentially. Again, it is true. But a professional commentator has the training to know this is somewhat dismissive and condescending. There are a number of ways of answering that question; he chose his way and the the mini-backlash that everyone is so hurt about is honestly just because of the tone. It isn't complicated. Here: "Well, Serena doesn't play men, she plays women. I sincerely believe Nadal (or Federer or Djokovic or Sampras or whoever) is the best of all time." See how easy that was? And it didn't have a ring of "she would be terrible if she played men" to it. Calm down, no one is getting hurt here. It's a matter of semantics and a professional knows that.
@@TheLastWalenta That's fair enough. I'm sorry if I sounded condescending. I simply don't see your original example as being analogous of Mr. McEnroe comments. True enough, as well, he could've been more gentle, but wasn't. Then again, he's known for these type of smashmouth remarks. And we are most certainly agreed, Ms. Williams is absolutely not the best female tennis of all time. As a complete player, I choose Ms. Navratilova. Actually, Steffi Graf might just edge her a a complete player. Her slams were certainly more impressive, for sure. Nice chatting.
@@AGTsakumis I didn't mean to say you were condescending: that the comment by McEnroe was condescending. The whole thing is he could make the point without sounding condescending. My examples were to show that even though a statement is factually true doesn't mean it needs to be said.
"...she's the greatest female tennis player ever". That's a compliment, I don't see why people got upset. If he said she was the greatest tennis player of all time that just wouldn't be true because there are men who could beat her. It's a reflection of the way the world is today, we have to make everybody happy, no one can be offended.
I don’t understand this. The interviewer originally asked McEnroe why she’s not the best player in the world (man or woman) and he explained why. Why should he be punished for telling the truth?
It's the world we live in now where everything can be taken as a slight. People are offended by anything and everything. Media helps foster that environment...
Perfectly rational from a guy who actually knows something about tennis. People need to get hobbies other than getting outraged on Twitter.
Perfectly stupid from a guy who is trying to promote his book by going after the best tennis player. She doesn't deserve that. Why cannot be a woman be the best tennis player every but it has to be a man? Just because of gender and body ability to be more physical? McEnroe is making a fool of himself. Serena is waaay more successful the McEnroe was. He mad :)
dizza213 SW success doesn't mean a hill of beans, because her achievements are against women
Therefore it is idiotic to say she is the greatest tennis player ever.
It also undermine the men and the
greats of ATP
She can't beat Rodger Federer, Rafeal Nadal,or the 1000 ranked player on the men's tour
go emasculate someone else
dizza213 the Uconn Women's basketball team has the greatest winning streak of all time but w would get wiped by majority of NCAA men's teams. You can't be the greatest ever if there are people better than you
I personally could never consider a woman eligible to be the greatest ever tennis player, male or female, because the quality and especially the depth of the competition in the women's game is a shadow of what it is in the men's game. If you've watched the Grand Slams you'll notice that it's not uncommon for a top-ranked player to be forced into a grueling five-setter in the early rounds by some virtual unknown who's not even ranked in the top 50. Occasionally, they'll even lose a match to such a player. This very rarely happens on the women's side. Usually, the top women roll over the competition in the early rounds, their matches lasting barely an hour. Ultimately, what I'm trying to say is that sports have long been and will continue to be a way for men to compare themselves to their peers, not to mention a way to attract attention from the opposite sex. This has never been true for women and probably never will be. This helps explain why the competition in men's sports, not just tennis, is so fierce and the women's seems rather anemic in comparison. I hope I've been able to explain my thoughts on this subject well enough for you to see where I'm coming from.
Of course she cannot beat Federer or Nadal but she still has more Grand Slam titles and success than them as a tennis player...and she is with the better career ;) get it? Statements like "SW success doesn't mean a hill of beans, because her achievements are against women" are idiotic indeed :) Federer and Nadal's achievements are against men so they all have the same level of competition per gender. Serena has just achieved more than them ;) simple as that! And what about McEnroe...he is not even in the conversation of greatness compared to Serena Williams, Federer or Nadal. Even Venus has more titles than him LOL.
"Serena vs Nadal on clay see how that goes"... Damn, easiest 20 minute paycheck Nadal ever had.
Rafa beat rank 51 mens player 6-0 6-1 6-0. Can you imagine what he would do to a Serena or Maria?.
Don't ever say or suggest that that would be rape :)
she wouldn't even win a single point in the whole match
Garrett Arnell ... Best, & most truthful, comment on here (applause) !!
Garrett Arnell
*She actually played vs a guy ranked less than #200* and she lost by far 6-1 and 6-0
So 700 is not that far... maybe she would be 600??
c'mon, it was pretty accurated!!
McEnroe is absolutely correct.
George Shiratake yea and no one thinks hes not
but why is he even saying it, ill tell you why to sell a book
Look at the reporters question dude.. Come on.. he even qualified the question before answering..
No dickhead, to answer the question. Got itchy mangina today?
Sam Spade JR like your mama😀
Yet gets criticised for it. Telling the truth remains a revolutionary act, it seems.
"If I played Andy Murray I would lose 6-0 6-0 in 5 maybe 10 minutes..." That was a quote DIRECTLY FROM SERENA WILLIAMS. So, if SHE thought she'd get COMPLETELY BLOWN outta water by a top 10/20 MENS player at that time, WHAT in the F, makes people (who don't know ANYTHING about tennis) think that she could consistently compete with THE TOP 700 MEN IN THE WHOLE WORLD? Just Makes me think. Ya knows.
Right. Serena was not offended or bothered. She just had a ton of losers speaking for her.
Shed win some games she's got a good sevre
@@slingshotdon No....good but not good enough ...
@@Ruoktoday1 I'm saying she'd lose dummy but would win a few games on sevre
@@slingshotdon I knew what u meant dummy... I'm saying her serve is not good enough to win even a few games....
I was ranked within the top 600 in the world and can personally attest that anyone ranked on the ATP tour and even most D1 College should be able to beat Serena pretty handily. That’s no offense or disrespect to Serena or women’s tennis as I have coached many top female players on tour. It’s just a different sport theoretically speaking. She is the best female player of all time. However, men’s tennis is so different. Ball speed, movement speed, spin rate, etc. One of my college teammates played against Caroline Wozniacki when she was #1 in the world and beat her 6-1. He didn’t even make our starting line up, we were playing our college match and he played a set against her so she could prepare for the WTA tournament the next week on campus.
Thank you for your comments. Finally somebody with real prospective..
I think you're right
How is she the greatest female player of all time? Martina Navratilova had 3&1/2 times more titles. And Serena was found to be taking steroids and pain killers.
You say she’s the greatest female player all time. Really? I vote Steffi… just compare records.
it's practically speaking, not theoretically speaking...there's fact, and fiction
I'm a woman, I'm in law enforcement and a lot of my female coworkers try to say they can do everything men can do physically, this is a huge mistake which can get you killed; you can do the same job as well, but not the same way!! You must know your strengths AND LIMITATIONS in order to be safe and get the job done well.
Beautifully Put!
I think you are absolutely correct.
In my 20's I was a kick-boxer. at 50 I was still very fast, could bench 218lbs. 30 reps. and run a 4.5 40 yd I have never seen any woman that strong. NEVER. story: a female police officer jumped in my face one night over nothing. Now I also had been a pastor for 20 years and was a very respectable and sensible guy but still I'm a man and I couldn't help but think: "woman if I was a criminal I could knock you out before you saw me flinch."Now in my entire life even before I was "walking w Jesus" I never talked back to the police NEVER. I just always thought that was a stupid move for losers. Flip side could be she had street instinct and could read I really wasn't a threat, and I wasn't for sure because
I abide by the law. to boot I had two dependent children at home but my point is if she misread me, for sure she could've gotten hurt by a thug-hearted guy. she was too cocky IMO and if she thought I was compliant because she was cocky she was entirely wrong, but she was in uniform and I respect that plain and simple. fact is, I'm grateful people serve as officers cause I don't want to have to carry heat and be prepared every day to gun down some criminally insane thug. just a guy who knows it takes people to enforce the law for there to be a rule of law and for society to b have any civility. thank you! stay-safe.
Clint Eastwood famously said, A man has got to know his limitations.
I said once that a woman has got to know her limitations and people freaked out.
I thought wow, it made so much sense when he said it about men, put the word woman instead and its a horrible sexist thing?
@ Kamel Thank you for being honest.
The smartest and most sensible comment made on this scroll. Thank you, Kamel. You help reality reestablish itself among the fair tale writers in our present society. Your like that EMS driver that's picking up the dope who thought he or she could walk in front of a speeding truck because their gender gave them the incentive.
The mere fact that McEnroe feels the need to explain and soften his opinion should tell us a lot about the world we live in.
People get offended by the truth these days
@@1999deshan People are offended by truth every day.
The truth hurts and there are alot of crybabies in today's world that get offended by the truth.
the "Woke" world is actually asleep at their keyboards trying to find injustice. The injustice in this world is that there are still people starving and homeless, rather than whether male and females tennis players should be treated as the same.
They're lucky he has softened, if they'd tried this thirty years ago, he would've brutally embarrassed and ridiculed them til they ran screamin for their mommies.
The problem is that unless you play pro tennis, you can't appreciate how good 700 on the ATP is.
Exactly
Even 2000
I guess everyone believes that there are exactly 699 male tennis players in the whole world...
Better than top 10 WTA. No offense, just a fact.
You play pro tennis? 700 seems extremely low
I dated a girl who played college tennis. I was a good athlete - but never played tennis for reals. She wanted to play as practice for her - and she wanted to know if I could return the ball if she hit it hard. We "played" three times in two weeks - and I did OK the first time - I beat her the second time - and I killed her the third time. She got really mad - we never played again - and that was the beginning of the end of dating.
In 1993, I started to date a 49ers fan. I am a huge cowboys fan. Our passion for our teams playing each other led to our breakup.
Did you tryhard in third game or did you simply return her balls untill she missed?
If she played college tennis and u didnt play for “realz” and u beat her noway she was a D1 college player
I wish I was there watching....
I think what I respect the most is how positive and supportive he continues to be towards Serena whenever he mentions her, also for the record Serena herself never had a problem with him saying it.
To be fair, Serena issued a tweet asking John to please keep her name out of his mouth, unless saying something factually based, and to respect her privacy while she cares for her baby. I get the feeling the only reason she tweeted it, wasn't because she was mad at him or upset about it, just that it caused so much controversy, her phone probably dinged off the hook from all the twits who were going ape about it. Her and John are both very classy peeps, imo, and there is no beef or bad blood or anything like that. She certainly didn't try to argue his opinion on the matter either.
What a stupid tweet from Serena. How is naming her in a show not respecting her privacy?
Grow up Serena.
Mac was just responding to a question about Serena, and he was flattering her. No insult to Serena at all.
She is quite childish fom time to time. Her breaking her racket and trying to play "women card" when she was beaten by another woman and when that didnt work out she tried to use "race card" on judge that was same race than her. And then she started crying.
@@liner011f7 Nah, Serena is an obnoxious biatch, eff her 😎
Serena is just an illiterate C
@@joonaslehtonen7965 same race as* her
McEnroe is spot on. What was he supposed to say to that stupid question on NPR? Glad he didn't back down!
Kent Murray - what was he suppose to expect from stupid broadcasting network NPR? They try and make it seem like women’s basketball is just as competitive as mens.
Kent Murray Yes it was a made-for-TV joke
It's the lack of tact or class, that's all. If your child won a local tennis tournament, and I said, "Well this is just a local tennis tournament for children. Your child would get smoked at the state level (or next age bracket, etc)." Would you nod and say, "Now this is a very accurate statement. Doesn't diminish this local accomplishment at all because it is very accurate." Or would you say, "Hey, let my son (or daughter) appreciate this trophy and don't be so condescending." I ask you, which is the better response? All people are saying here is that he lacked class or tact in the comment and as a professional commentator he should have the training to regain some of that class by not doubling down.
@@TheLastWalenta Stupid analogy because children in local tennis tournaments aren't being compared universally to adult tennis players as objectively equal in capabilities! There is a political agenda that is polarizing the entire western world to some degree, and pretending that it is insignificant or non-existent, doesn't help a damn thing. There is nuance that absolutely needs recognizing in these discussions, and refusing to even acknowledge the importance of discussion is poisonous. Talk biology, talk history, talk future, talk politics, talk prejudice, talk sociology, talk culture, talk identity, talk about the layers of nuance, perspective and significance. DON'T talk about ridiculous analogies focussed entirely on your one dimensional emotional reduction. Your general interpretation of the world around us is part of the greater problem!
@@jaxjester997 The thing about analogies is, there must be a difference for it to work. The whole idea is to take something different and compare it in a similar way to something else to highlight its similarity. You can dismiss every analogy as “stupid” and then simply highlight the difference (age vs gender in this case) over the similarity (degrading an accomplishment because there are better levels somewhere else). The analogy is valid whether or not you are okay with the thought. I never said Serena was better than the men: I am simply highlighting the unnecessary way her (pretty amazing) accomplishments were unnecessarily diminished by saying she would be no better than 700 at the next level. The NPR lady is in the industry of information: the idea that she legitimately asked why Serena isn’t as good as men could be interpreted as “I don’t understand because I don’t follow tennis. Explain to my viewers why.” You took it as, “Serena is better than men so let’s argue.” I heard the exchange: I got the former sentiment, not the latter.
The tone here was the issue, not the message. Relax.
right or wrong, you got to love a guy who's not afraid to say what he thinks
And he's right.
@@thebrazilianatlantis165 and he sticks to his guns.
Damn right good for McEnroe tired of these guys backing down like sissies.
Wrong...he is dead right.
There is no wrong in this case!
John is great to listen to because although he’s competitive and wants to be right he’s also honest and open minded and generally well intentioned. Serena’s response pretty much sums up what I think of her. Defensiveness usually means you’re guilty about something.. ? Using technology to enhance your game..
Years ago on " ABC's Wide World of Sports" they showed the number one ranked female kickboxer do a promotional fight against the number one ranked male. The woman took it seriously and the guy was just foolin around. He told her to cool it a couple times and then she caught him in the land down under...he did a spin move and dropped her like a bad habit. I thought the announcers were going to have a heart attack. McEnroe is 100% correct and it's absurd to think anything else.
Ranking Serena 700 in the men's is very, very generous
Really does anyone even know anyone ranked bellow 200?
Agreed; to say she'd be that high isn't grappling with how deep Men's tennis is
The best high school boys tennis players could beat Serena Williams.
@@marvinmurakami8828 do you know any names?
@@hahandroo The US Womens National soccer team lost 12-0 to a boys 14 year old team. The dfference is way larger than most think
I remember when Chrissie Everett was the #1 ranked female in the world and was crushing all the girls and a talking head ask her had she considered playing the men and Chrissie said "let me put it this way, my younger brother grew up in our tennis family and is a pretty good club player but has never qualified for the tour and I have never taken a set off him in my life".
Exactly Steve, well said.
Nice. Too bad they couldn't reference that story. 700 was probably being generous if we're being honest.
It is a VERY bad sign when someone speaks the truth in this country and everyone in the media gasps, and invites them to walk it back or apologize.
Mac is always straightforward and honest in his opinions.. a truly knowledgeable analyst..
She couldn't beat the 7000th ranked man. McEnroe was being generous.
Why is he explaining himself? Wow, John has mellowed over the years. 1979 John McEnroe would have told the world to kiss his a*s.
That happens in aging.
@@attilaambrus4521 I know quite a few that go the other way with that too.
He wants the paychecks from these liberal shows thats it
@@PoliticusRex632 Yes, but "most" mellow out as they age. Maybe less testosterone? But they do get crabby and grumpy. Lol.
John McEnroe is great, he speaks the truth and you can tell it.
he speaks the truth. there! i told it!
Women's final at Wimbledon 55 mins vs men's final 5 hours. Same pay, apparently that's equality.
why do you care? it's not your money.
@Krystal nezari i dunno it does get kinda sexy tho all thos skrits and underwear and grunting like they getting something shoved in their bum ...
That's true but only in so far as the women ought to be playing best of 5 if they're getting paid the same...
If we paid players less for not giving us a competitive match then Roger Rafa and Novak would have deprived a lot of players of paychecks over the years...
@@DaggerMan11 Why you argue like a bitch?
@2dowde yes, because UA-cam comment section men's rights activists are so important to society 🤣
It’s possible to appreciate and admire Serena’s accomplishments and how great she’s been for female tennis AND be of the opinion that she’d not win a singular game against the 700th male ranked player. Her salty response is a shame but obviously totally expected. Still, she’s a true champ and has been a blessing for tennis, women’s tennis is so dull in the post Serena era
A is A. Not anymore.
She is yes. I agree with you
The problem today is they worry too much about people's feelings instead of telling the truth. I'm glad he stood his ground and didn't apologize
Good point.
If the original interviewer didn't want to hear McEnroe's honest assessment, then don't ask the question.
they were trying to force am apology out of him. Thank God he didnt cave.
@@michaelt4403 : They should force an apology from Sloppy Joe for the last 10 months of occupying the White House.
@@robdykejr awww did the scawy man in the big house hurt the widdle baby? There, there. You'll be OK.
@@silvos8903 : Fitting. Since Dementia Joe wears diapers. 🤔🤪🤯
@@robdykejr you do know this is about tennis right? Go cry about who's the president to someone who wants to hear it.
McEnroe was wrong
Serena wouldn't even beat top 1500 ranked player
WATCH MY PLAYLISTS FOR THE TRUTH PLEASE ! ! !
You are wrong. She wouldn't even be inside the 2000th Atp.
She would lose to any teenager at a tennis academy.... Tennis is a sport... Men and women play on different levels...
@Jazzkeyboardist1 He didn't say he was proud of it. He stated it to support a good argument.
Heck, I could beat her left-handed.
1200 out of 4500
"I'll give her 700 roses"
What a savage.
I love John. I had the pleasure of meeting him. Super nice guy………..And,he’s absolutely unequivocally 💯% correct……..
No explanation needed. He was spot on.
He is right, there is a reason for separate circuits, you can't deny biology.
Ангел Цветилов
They can deny it and they are denying it, People are stupid. Truth is even stating Serena would have a chance against the number 700 is a stretch, personally I would say she cannot even beat number 1500. Any male pro or semi pro is going to beat her, Serena will be able to beat the majority of male amateurs I think but that is how far you can push it.
exactly so rather than engage in the debate and name a number- why didn't he just say exactly what you said! FAR more respectable to the fairer sex who cannot help their anatomies and biological positioning
Ангел Цветилов, thank you.
@Driver I say try it for 1 year. Make the feminists happy and we can enjoy the slaughter that ensues...
Exactly, biology, so what state the obvious? Any pro woman can definitely beat you in tennis.
she has already played the 250th player and got decimated then that guy dropped to the 350th a week later
John McEnroe is one of the most interesting commentators in tennis. Too bad we live in a stupid, hyper-sensitive woke world - it gets so tiring having to listen to the PC police b.s. after someone like Mac simply answers questions he's asked in a truthful, forthright manner.
Well said 😎
Trumper, I bet you don't even know what "woke" means. You are just vomiting MAGA talking points. Kick rocks, kid...
Serena is great period😁😁😁💲💲💲💲
It's the lack of tact or class, that's all. If your child won a local tennis tournament, and I said, "Well this is just a local tennis tournament for children. Your child would get smoked at the state level." Would you nod and say, "Now this is a very accurate statement. Doesn't diminish this local accomplishment at all because it is very accurate." Or would you say, "Hey, let my son (or daughter) appreciate this trophy and don't be so condescending." I ask you, which is the better response? All people are saying here is that he lacked class or tact in the comment and as a professional commentator he should have the training to regain some of that class by not doubling down.
@@TheLastWalenta So, as a professional commentator talking about a professional player he should have lied to make certain people feel good??? What a pathetic sentiment. And what a terrible comparison. Serena isn't some little kid playing in a local tournament. She's a professional who's won many trophies and millions of dollars.
Johnny Mac is the man! SAYIN IT HOW IT IS AND STANDS TALL!!
Love it!
Serena brings up being a mother on different occasions like she is the only person in the world that has been a mother.
Like the fact John didn't back down from his statements.
Greetings from England, I just love John McEnroe, legendary player, straight talker & we really appreciate his commentaries here @ Wimbledon
Every year, RESPECT to the man !
Seems like McEnroe is as sick of this crap as I am. Good man.
Completely forgot about Connors/Navratilova. The thing that really struck me about that one was the aftermath, the big takeaway from the spectacle... NOTHING. Not even a "Well, _that_ sucked." It began, it ended, and ten minutes later everyone completely forgot about the pointless spectacle. _And rightfully so._
I love John McEnroe he’s one of the best Tennis players and Tennis Analyst. I really believe he’s accurate that Serena is great player but playing on Mens Tour she would be ranked very low.
I'm going to buy his book, just because of what he said about Serena 🤫
Don't you mean man and not mens???
@@peterang6912 I've never heard anyone in pro tennis refer to the men's tour as the man tour, if that's what you are asking.
@@Rick-the-Swift no, see that he forgot the little ' and by me it was the autocorrect that didn't did it's thing...
@@peterang6912 Ah, I was actually thinking "the man tour" would sound pretty cool, but the left would have a conniption fit if they tried to call it that. It's surprising they still allow it to be gender specific🤦♂
I love John McEnroe... he has enough cojones to speak his mind! John asks why don't they do this in other sports... well they did. In my opinion, Annika Sorenstam is the greatest golf champion and golf competitor ever on the women's tour as I am guessing John M and a large percent of the world would agree. As great as she was, she could not even make the cut on the men's tour... and I was rooting for her to do so! Even though she was not good enough to make the cut let alone challenge for the lead... I still think she is one of the greatest golf champion's ever and I have have a ton of respect for her!
Do people not realise Serena did challenge the number 200 player in the world a few years ago at the ausdtrqlian open. She lost 6-1. She later said she would like to challenge the 350 ranked player
This is funny because Karsten Braasch, the guy who beat her and Venus, dropped down to the 350-400 zone a few weeks after that match.
Anand R. Someone else mention afterward he said he was playing like a 600-700 to keep it fun. He was also smoking and drinking during
@@jackjon7763 That's speculative though. Like kicking ass and being like "and i went easy on ya"
Serena would be in trouble if she played one of the Top 5 seeds of a US Men's High School State Tennis Tournament .. Top 18 year old High Schooler in 1 of the 50 states? Serena would get clobbered.
@@10YearOldTom he was smoking and drinking (not water).
McEnroe speaks the truth and Serena knows it. I think Serena knows she couldn't beat whoever is ranked 250. She just needs to save face and keep her brand up so she posted that tweet.
Jonh Hudson she doesn't have brand issues...her brand is doing fine whether she says something or not...dont be dumb.
Save face? From what? Being able to win a Grand Slam while pregnant. Think before you speak.
Al Sharpton probably high school guys. Just like the women's national soccer team got dusted by high school boys
Al Sharpton everyone, she should try high school
Jonh Hudson Serena has said that she wouldnt beat the mens players. She said its an entirely different game.
I grew up watching John McEnroe at the height of his popularity in the 80's..as controversial as he was on the tennis court and out,he was ONE HELL of a player and he is right women can't compete with men in tennis or any type of sports for that matter..in the late 90's Serena and Venus Williams who are ranked the best in the world in the female circuit, claimed they could beat any man above the 200 world ranking for men and were challenged by a German player Karsten Braasch who at the time was ranked 203 in the mens circuit he was not in his top physical shape,was nursing a hangover having drunk the previous night and was smoking cigars between game breaks, while both of the Williams sisters were in the best shape of their lives and guess what..he still beat them both back to back like they owed him money..when it comes to strength,speed and endurance, men will always come on top..so this politically correct,whiny and crybaby generation and fucking feminists NEED to get over it!
He was a beast!!!
Hey John,
I appreciate you, man!👍🏾
Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters.
Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both.
Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple of bottles of ice cold lager".
The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park, after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two shandies.
He first took on Serena and after leading 5-0, beat her 6-1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6-2.
Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance".
He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun" and that the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier and put spin on the ball that female players could not handle.
The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.
The next week Braasch had fallen in the rankings from 203 to the 350s. "Apparently, after the game, Serena and Venus immediately told the press they wanted to challenge a male player again," Braasch said. "This time they revised the ranking of the man they wanted to face, to 350 in the world. I informed the journalist who told me this that in the next week I was set to lose a lot of ATP points and drop down to 350 in the rankings. I told him that if Venus and Serena waited just one week they could challenge me all over again!"
I played USTA Juniors tennis as a kid, and was probably about two small steps away from being professional caliber. I've played and watched the game my entire life.
McEnroe is correct. The famous Billie Jean King / Bobby Riggs match (where King 'won') was two things; 1) Riggs was long retired and about 20-25 years older than King; and 2) He wasn't even playing with effort.
Another point. Look up Kaarsten Braasch and the Williams sisters - if you're curious about more.
I'll load the Wikipedia detail here:
{{ Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both.
Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple bottles of ice cold lager". The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park, after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two beers. He first took on Serena and after leading 5-0, beat her 6-1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6-2. Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun".
Braasch said the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier, and that men put spin on the ball that the women can't handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.}}
That Braasch match was a younger and fitter Serena. She got 1 game off a guy ranked 203.
Extrapolate to thinking about touring - Men's tennis (5 set matches, instead of 3) - and actually WINNING matches (not just 1 single game)?
Nope - she'd be LUCKY to be ranked 700. She might not even crack the top 1000.
I was a marginal HS player, but held the No. 1 singles title on my team for a short period. I won my college intramural doubles championship at a Div. 1 school. I played a gal on the UCLA tennis team, a doubles player, and took a set. Which kind of blew my mind. I bet a good college men's player could beat Serena. It's not her fault. 15 year old boys can dunk like no problem, and how many of the women pros can play above the rim. I feel like Mac got baited into the question. He's called her one of the greatest athletes of our time. Didn't qualify that. Maybe he's been taken down the Serena v. the Men question so many times, he thought that was what interviewer was asking him.
IQ - That's correct. The power and court coverage is just at another level. Not to mention both serve and return - the power and pace on both.
Yes - guys ranked 500, 600, 700 are really just a few decent satellite tournament match wins away from being 200 - and then - you're knocking on the door at the very top in the world. Being in the top 1000 in anything is pretty impressive - but the difference in the men's and women's games (like in every other sport) is just night and day - no comparison.
Blarney Stone -- I would love to see a dude have to use a wood racket and play her. That would be fun. I wonder if it would make enuff of a difference at their level to give her a fighting chance against a top 1000 player.
I think a lot of top players would still whip her - even with a wood racquet. Hands and feel guys especially - like a Federer type.
I went out a few years ago - with a buddy I play a lot with. We broke out some old wood racquets for about 10 minutes. The pace is way down, a few more mis-hits, but we were fine. I was raised on wood racquets though - so that all came back pretty quickly.
I think even McEnroe - even at his age - would kick the sh!t out of her - if they were playing a serious match.
Blarney Stone -- yeah -- my college tennis pal and I dusted them off for playing on grass courts a year ago. Similar experience. But, at the level and precision the elite play at -- I wonder if it would make a bigger difference.
“I hate to see this comparing”
That’s what happens when you start trying to claim Serena is the greatest tennis player in the world, it’s just factually incorrect because the comparison has been made
Serena is the GOAT. She has done things no man or woman has done. She won a grand slam while pregnant. Name a man who can or has done it? I'm waiting? Men can't do what women can do. So any comparison is mute. Men stay in your lane.
@@GH-hu8rp no one is saying men can play while pregnant - what a ridiculously illogical argument. We are saying that men are biologically stronger, faster, and more athletic than women. Of course there are exceptions, which is why Serena could still beat many of the best men players, but certainly not ALL of them. Put the best of the men against the best of the women and there is no contest.
@@spencergsmith the fastest man cannot beat the top mens players, neither can the strongest man beat a top mens player. Tennis is athletic but more about skill and mental acumen. The point is to make comparison based on sex is not a true comparison. It is apples and oranges. It just makes less enhanced men feel better about themselves. Let's celebrate both sexes. I actually prefer watching more of the top women than the top men. Both bring entertainment. The women tend to be more skilled.
@@GH-hu8rp I never said the fastest or strongest man can beat the top tennis player. I said that male tennis players are faster, stronger, and generally more athletic than female tennis players. Whether you stack up the best against the best, or the averages of both, men beat women 999 times out of 1,000. Serena, while an incredible tennis player, is no exception. She even stated in an interview from years prior that she would perform terribly in the men's professional circuit.
I love celebrating both sexes, and I'm glad you prefer watching women to men. That's your prerogative, and has no bearing on how skilled or athletic anyone else. I would argue that "the women tend to be more skilled" is simply not true. It's been demonstrated time and time again that men outperform women in physical contests given the same level of experience and conditions of play. Pretending this isn't true doesn't benefit anyone. There is a reason we have men's and women's leagues in almost every major sport, because if we tried to combine them, there would be almost no professional women athletes.
@@spencergsmith Not many men can volley better that BJK or either Martina. They brute force it. It's boring to watch. You don't play tennis obviously so you can't see the difference. The Russian guy Medvedev ,who recently won the US open, he is a poor volleyer., his ground stroke technique while effective is in poor form, which is why he plays so far back, it's not going to serve him in later years when he cannot run as much. He would win more and would have won earlier if he had better skills at the net and better stroke production.
The man is right. This is like the "Rousey would beat Mayweather" thing lol. Why do people love lies?
In an octagon she would break Floyd, in the ring Floyd gets the KO
@@paulflores9137 😤😤😤lol
People love lies that give them power or prestige.
It is women who seem to lie to themselves and other women to make themselves feel better
She would not have beaten Floyd in the octagon, ring, schoolyard playground, the alley, neighborhood barbeque, the family reunion, the circus, carnival, or whatever you want to name. She would not have been able to touch Floyd.
Gotta love ya, John...a man who never backed away or down from anybody or anything. Consumate New Yorker!
Jennifer Capriati I think it is has a brother who played collegiate tennis and she's on record saying she's never beaten him in a match.
McEnroe is wrong...........more accurate 1000-1500........
I don't think she could beat # 900
Same, when John said 700 I was like that's generous. I know college players at my school who can destroy her.
700 is extremely generous. Extremely. That's McEnroe panicking in his mind, thinking he doesn't want to be too harsh here. In reality, Serena would have her hands full at the college level. She wouldn't be able to go pro and make enough prize money to afford those travel expenses.
That's completely true. People have become so sensitive that they can't tell between sexism/racism and reality.
RT ON...BUT THE FACT REMAINS....FEMALES DO NOT HAVE TO PLAY 5 SETS...3 AT BEST....
funny how people that don't know anything about tennis get all uppity about this. any decent D1 college male would beat her. decent run-of-the-mill D1 college player is an equivalent of a 2000's rank ATP player. or maybe even unranked, as not all D1 players that try going pro after college manage to even get a single ATP point. serena would not be getting an ATP point.
Let's use an objective measure. The 100m world record for women is FloJo's 10.49sec established in 1988. No woman has even come close to that record in some time. The most recent top time is 10.70sec by Elaine Thompson of Jamaica in the 2016 Olympics. The men's 100m world record was already 10.4 in 1921 (Charles Paddock). In fact, with a time of 10.49sec a man cannot compete in the Olympics. His time would below the qualification standard. Hence, one can estimate that the top 100m woman sprinter would probably be ranked about 700 amongst the men's 100m runners. Clearly, one cannot compare men and women athletes against each other. This doesn't in any way diminish the accomplishments of the women.
In sports, one competes against one's peers and one's greatness is determined by how well one performs against one's peers. Serena, Elaine Thompson, Muhammad Ali, Babe Didrikson, Diana Taurasi, Tom Brady, LeBron James, Messi et al are all great at their sports. McEnroe is only guilty of poor judgment. He probably shouldn't have allowed himself to be baited into answering a question that would only get the Twitterverse working in overdrive.
Exactly. Plus, if people think it's sexist, then the sport itself should stop dividing women and men, as simple as that. Call it tennis and everyone is welcome to compete. McEnroe always speaks highly of Serena, and so would any fan of the game. She's a rock star, but it's biology.. she simply cannot compete with the likes of Federer and Nadal. They are faster and more powerful. She might know what to do in every situation and be a tennis genius, but how could she deal with Roddick's service game or Nadal's forehands. In her sport (women's tennis) she is amazing and in general she is one of the best athletes ever, but the question was leading and he simply answered it honestly. People need to relax.
I, on the other hand, am not very good and my girlfriend beats me all the time lol :)
that 10.49 is very likely under the use of drugs. I can't believe a record like that would still exist 30 years later without some "stimulant" to have had a hand in it
@@Cenot4ph Flo Jo was 100% doping in 1988. Anyone over the age of 8 knows that.
I agree with your comment, although I think that 700 is a bit generous. It is likely that there are thousands of men and boys in the world who can run faster than 10.70s. The 15 year old boys 100m record is 10.20s, and there are many guys who run under 10.70s and don't make it as pro sprinters. I lived in a medium sized town growing up and there were a couple of guys from my town who could run around 10.70s, so it is likely that there are a couple of guys in most medium sized towns who can run those sort of times.
@Jazzkeyboardist1 Still 1% of 3.75 billion is 37.5 million.
love john speaks his truth & says what a lot of people do not have the integrity or guts to say. He is one of the greatest broadcasters so interesting. Bravo. John Bravo Serena. Can we move on
John - you are amazing - we all love you!
The fact were talking about a 58 year old man having a chance at beating the best woman's player ever in her prime should tell you how truly superior men are.
Ah but if he identified as a 25 year old ......
@@tobyglyn 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
ZACTLY QM
He even admitted himself if he played at 58 years old tennis he would be rank 1200 and plus, honest person
Dan Patrick is pretty ignorant for a sports reporter. The fact is Serena DID play the male ranked around 203 years ago. His name is Karsten Braasch, and he was messing around smoking and drinking beer while he played, and he still destroyed both Serena and Venus without trying. The truth is top high school boys can destroy Serena Williams.
Was there no video of that event? I want to watch it.
I knew about that battle too but from what i remember it was late 90's or very early 2000's and i'm not sure what has happened since. I know that she has gotten better since but the talent pool in the mens division could be much deeper now so i find it very difficult to know where she would rank.
to be fair that match was played when Serena was in her teen years and just starting to break into the world wide scene…….if they had played 10 years later or more it would have been a different match……having said this…ive watched the best men and women play live and they fact remains men are just physically stronger and faster and that difference makes all the difference in competition. the fast stronger man beats the less strong faster man most of the time and so it goes regardless of gender.
@@mellamodiego8458 and he also mentioned that he was playing at a 500 rank to be more “gentleman” like
College men yes, highschool nah.
Mac is the king. I love how he doesn’t back down on this topic.
He TOLD the TRUTH!!!
The debate is force insanity. It’s like saying a featherweight champ would beat a heavyweight champ in boxing or MMA.
Summarized this whole incident since it bugged the shit out of me:
The men's and women's tours are two different leagues. Serena has described them as almost two different sports. Actually, there isn't a men's tour. There's the ATP tour. It's comprised of all men, but there is no rule that women can't play. There's the WTA tour, which is segregated. Women only. This rule allows women's tennis to exist, otherwise the WTA would also be populated entirely by men, effectively doubling the size of the ATP.
Women's tennis existing is an important thing. It makes money (not nearly as much as the ATP, but a lot) and it inspires girls and women. So it's good to have a separate woman's league. The leagues also have different rules, by the way. The women's tour allows on-court coaching, they use lighter balls at many events, and the biggest difference is the best-of-3 vs best-of-5 set format. Women never play more than 3 sets. Men go up to 5 sets. That's a huge difference, especially as you get older. It gets harder and harder to win those back-to-back 5 setters as you get older. That's why comparing Serena's 23 majors to Federer's 18 majors is ridiculous. Federer has it much harder than her. More sets, tougher, deeper competition. I'd be interested to see the comparison in the mileage on their bodies. I wouldn't be surprised if Federer has 3 or 4 times the mileage. He has had to work so much harder to achieve his greatness. And just compare their highlight reels. Actually, I've never once seen a Serena highlight reel. She doesn't do anything really crazy out there. She doesn't have to. Just stand on the baseline, BANG, BANG, and another little girl bites the dust.
But some women, including Serena, decided to start some controversy. They started this talk of "why do they say best FEMALE player? Why can't they just say best player?" Serena started to get a chip on her shoulder, thinking she was a victim. Feminists started this movement of calling her the greatest tennis player, period. Not prefacing it with "female," which to them is insulting.
McEnroe was asked, is Serena the best female tennis player ever? He said absolutely yes. This, by the way, is still arguable. Steffi Graf's career is more impressive in a lot of ways, and she was also a better athlete. Graf was actually regarded as Olympic quality. There's this idea that Serena is this super athlete. Not really. Her movement is lethargic, lazy. She's often off balance. She makes up for it with incredible ball striking (which is possible because the women she plays against tee up the ball nicely for her to wallop.) Her straight sprinting speed is pretty good for a female tennis player, but not the best (and would be considered horrible for a male - a man who moves that badly better be 7 feel tall and make up for it with his serve). Usain Bolt once attended one of her matches. She said she asked him afterwards if she could have been a sprinter. "No." That's all he said. Too polite to say "fuck no."
Then the female interviewer asked him, why say female? Why not just the best tennis player, period? Uh...because that wouldn't be a factual statement.
And here we are. Arguing about a basic fact of biology I learned when I was 5 years old watching the Olympics when I asked my mom if that female sprinter could beat the men, and my mom treated me like I was stupid for thinking that women were as strong as men. Why are we arguing about this? Because it's the latest feminist cause, grounded in emotion and hurt feelings, and some of us are handicapped in our need to be rational, to make sense. We're better off shutting the fuck up, and not answering these questions.
"But Mr. McEnroe, why not just say she's the best tennis player ever, period. Why do you have to use the 'female' qualifier?"
"Fair enough. Fair enough."
"So do you agree?"
"Hey, fair enough. Fair enough. Now, let's get back to the book I'm selling."
Sup great post. You put it in the most reality based narrative. unfortunately that doesn't comform to PC group think circa 2017
Excellent, the five set thing is astonishing. Federer played 15 sets in three five set matches and he had to play four other matches as well..Serena played 12 sets altogether to win the Women's singles...case closed...
This thing about sets is a dumb argument. We're framing male and female's abilities by proportion, so you can't talk about quantities without creating proportions to use in comparisons instead of straight up numbers. I agree absolutely with everything else you've said though.
Sup i
14 sets to win a ladies major
"That's all you needed to say. You threw out the 700 number..."
Pay attention, Dan. McEnroe was asked: "Why not just say she's the best *player*, rather than the best female player?"
I don't know why more flak hasn't been directed at the NPR interviewer for posing such a mealy-mouthed, passive-aggressive, inuendo-laden question in the first place.
NPR is trash lmao. Can't listen for a minute without hearing someone twist the truth so blatantly with their malicious diction.
John will always kick A** .He rocks and rolls .He is the TENNIS ? Voice or (what ever). John you ROCK....
Salute to John! 👍❤️
She and her sister lost to a guy ranked 200. He killed them after a round of golf and some brews
Saw Mac play in Orlando this year. Still plays very well. Great hands at net.
Just curious: Do you think McEnroe in 2017 could beat a non-pregnant Serena? I don't think he could. But McEnroe in his prime would destroy her. IMO...What do you think?
Lynn Turman I think Serena would probably win.
Agreed
Robert Collins he plays great. Imagine if he was this serious when he was young!
frank mancuso ??? You don't get to be at the level he was at if you don't take it seriously. Seriously.
I had to live to the day where McEnroe will be f....g politically correct. 700th?! It is absolutely impossible for her to get even close to 2000th. And that is me being "correct"!
John McEnroe I love you. You were great on the tennis court and even in life. Your the man
Good on you John.
His commentary in this interview was spot on.
True story the bad ass women's U.S. World Cup soccer team lost to 15 and under FC Dallas boys team. It wasn't even close.
Yikes
Zebra M Sorry, it was even worse then I remember. The Women's National Soccer Team for Australia lost 7-0 to the under 15 year old boys of the Newcastle Jets team.
So the best Female Soccer players in Australia lost to a a bunch of kids 15 or younger that play for local Soccer Club in Australia, the Newcastle Jets.
1. You seem to think you're on a team, Us vs Them. You're not and neither I am.
2. What does Horse Racing have to do with Athletic competitions?
so in sports in general, if men and women would compete, who would win most on average, males or females?
stick to the point. you were butthurt that females lose at most sports, due to simple nature. serena was butthurt and all feminists are butthurt, yet NONE of them suggest man and women join in 1 league and play altogether. why not? equality is key right? shouldnt serena before pronouncign herself as the best in ALL of tennis, actually play the other 50% of tennis and PROVE that she is the best. i am sure federer is up for it, is serene also?
Well, the thing is, JM is absolutely right
Notice that not one of the talking heads who has admonished McEnroe for his comments has ever answered his question - 'where would YOU rank her then?' Not one. And it's because they all know full well that he's right. Over the course of a season, she'd get an upset win or two (most players do), but the totality of her results throughout the year would depress her ranking to a point where she absolutely would be in the high hundreds if she was forced to play on the men's circuit.
Uh, the Williams Sisters almost 20 years ago said they could beat any man that had a worse than 200 ranking, so a guy who was 203rd took them up on the offer, and he destroyed them back to back 6-1 and 6-2. Not only that, the guy was a smoker and drinker, and on that day played Golf and drank two beers before the match, and even said he played that day intentionally at a 500 or so ranking just to make it fun, thus not his best, yet he still killed them. In fact, Serena I think herself even said on David Letterman that she would be ranked much lower if she played men.
So, this is all bulldonkey... to me.
I mean, the women's soccer team who think they should be paid MORE than the men (in overall pay and benefits) lost to a HIGH SCHOOL boys soccer team. They are lying Leftists, because when you calculate their actual earnings, they already got paid more than the men as even the initial Judge ruled, throwing out the case if I remember right. They were simply "jealous" that in their championship win they didn't get the same "cash bonus" as the men did. Watch Nate the Lawyers 3 or so videos he's done on women's soccer... Leftists are BAD people... Oh, and to further show how bad of human beings they are, they then were offered the MENS deal, and they REJECTED IT...
I love watching John play !!! One of the greatest players ever !!!
I have no clue who she could or couldn't beat, but I'm sure McEnroe does. I don't think he was trying to be disrespectful. She should play someone ranked about where she thinks she belongs and that way everyone will have a better idea and could let it rest. I'm sure ESPN would pay them a decent price.
She did that, when she was younger and around her prime. She lost, big time. He was ranked 203.
Serena Williams is the heaviest player in the tennis history. Can we agree on that ?
I always loved John, he made me laugh when he played. There are no corners to John I thought, what you see, is what there is, and I loved that about him.
I don't know why he needs to explain. He was being kind to her when he said she'd be in the top 700.
There are no less than 10,000 high school varsity boys players in the U.S., alone, that would manhandle the greatest professional female player, ever
And the problem is??? Nothing.
Dan is so sexist to suggest that women don't even deserved to be compared to women....BTW Dan, Serena did play a lower ranked and older pro male and got smoked 6-1 as he also smoked a cig on the change overs.
Women don't deserve to be compared to women is a sexist remark? Reads like nonsense to me
Great job well said John 👏🏼👏🏼 good sportsmanship 💯☝️
First of all john mc enroe isnt wrong and no matter what men and women accomplish in sports there are boundaries set apart by BIOLOGY. Plus, john mc enroe actually knows about tennis and played it unlike the people criticizing him.
To say that Serena at that time would be ranked 700th on the tour is likely a generous estimation.
It's an extremely competitive environment, and the men around 700 in ranking are going to be as physically tough as many of the top 50-100.
To say that Serena could compete with them - possibly over 3-4 sets - is a big leap.
In Serena's own words: "Men's tennis and women's tennis are two almost completely different sports"
Even if Serena can be said to be the greatest female tennis-player ever, if we're going to erase 'female' from that sentence, it automatically calls for comparison between men and women.
I say that comparison is just about non- sensical. Apples and oranges
You all know Serena already played a male tennis player around 2000 that was ranked 203 at the time and he beat her 6 to 1 all the while drinking beer and smoking during changeovers. He followed up by beating her sister Venus 6 to 2. Let that sink in folks, then just celebrate her for what she is... One of the best women's tennis player the world has ever seen. What's wrong with that?
And he played golf right before the match. Lol
both Williams sisters played the ranked like 300 player and got absolutely smoked in the late 90's.
Yup, no surprise
I think the guy was 205 at the time...
in his interview he claimed he had to play like a 500 player to keep things competitive
How true that is is hard to ascertain...
you can't ask an honest straight shooter a question because John McEnroe happens. If you strictly take his 700 ranking statement alone then you will never understand how much he admires and respects Serena.
John should of brought receipts. The interview she did on the David Letterman show when talking about her playing Andy.
I couldn’t stand McEnroe when he played and now I love this guy!
I think alot of men in this world see him as like a hero or something, sticking it to the woke mob and crazy feminists.
So disappointed in Dan with that 250 ranking estimate. Especially when she got destroyed by a 203rd rank. C'mon Dan.
You forgot that the 203rd player played a round of golf and had several beers before he played her as well.... And he beat her so badly....
Dan "these 250th ranked guys haven't been in the moment" .. Wrong.. Yes they have. Even the 250th ranked Mens Tennis Player has won Tournaments, State Championships, NCAA Championships, Invitationals.
McEnroe will be front¢er for the eventual Oasis reunion!!:)
Lol Serena won't even make top 1000 in the mens
Of course, she’s a girl..
In another news: water is wet... duh
Notorious Mch she’s a woman. Which woman makes it in the top 1000?
She won't even make the atp , there are male teens who could beat her on the national and state level ,even i was a national level tennis player under 18 i think if i played my best game even i could beat her it would be difficult but yeah i could
@@strawhat5633 Exactly. Rafael Nadal was ranked 811th when he was 15 and he would have absolutely smoked Serena back then. Women perform on the level of 13-14 year old boys.
There is nothing to explain. The guy is arguably the greatest tennis player of all times, and arguably the smartest. He's also the most honest.
@C P he's also the greatest clown ever, yes. Perhaps after Charlie Chaplin. Do you know who Charlie Chaplin was ? Do you know who Mozart was ?
John standing up for the truth.
Focusing on the number 700 is avoiding the conversation that needs to be had.
Such an stupid conversation really, really doesn't need to be had.
@@carlosmoran1366 If it is raised then its fair. For a while Serena was being lauded as the best tennis player on the planet, its about as fair as saying that Murray is the only tennis player with two olympic gold medals. Setting the record straight is fine, focussing on the number rather than the truth is cowardly.
Yet another example of when someone speaks the truth and gets attacked for it.
It's the lack of tact or class, that's all. If your child won a local tennis tournament, and I said, "Well this is just a local tennis tournament for children. Your child would get smoked at the state level (or next age bracket, etc)." Would you nod and say, "Now this is a very accurate statement. Doesn't diminish this local accomplishment at all because it is very accurate." Or would you say, "Hey, let my son (or daughter) appreciate this trophy and don't be so condescending." I ask you, which is the better response? All people are saying here is that he lacked class or tact in the comment and as a professional commentator he should have the training to regain some of that class by not doubling down.
@@TheLastWalenta Your example is not like to the comments made by Mr. McEnroe. Firstly, the comparison of classes in the child analogy you site is incongruent to making the statement how the top women's player wouldn't be able to compete at the highest levels of the men's game. Ms. Williams, while extremely talented, wouldn't survive. Thus, we have men's and women's tours. Mr. McEnroe comments were taken entirely out of context. He's absolutely correct and tact has nothing to do with this.
@@AGTsakumis No one is saying anything about the truth of McEnroe's commentary. We all know it's true. It's the dismissive and condescending way he said it. He was challenged by the NPR woman about Serena being the best all time. Everyone who knows anything about tennis knows that she isn't. The host probably doesn't know anything about tennis, and asked the question in a potentially serious discussion. I heard it. McEnroe said she wouldn't even beat the top 700 players, essentially. Again, it is true. But a professional commentator has the training to know this is somewhat dismissive and condescending. There are a number of ways of answering that question; he chose his way and the the mini-backlash that everyone is so hurt about is honestly just because of the tone. It isn't complicated. Here: "Well, Serena doesn't play men, she plays women. I sincerely believe Nadal (or Federer or Djokovic or Sampras or whoever) is the best of all time." See how easy that was? And it didn't have a ring of "she would be terrible if she played men" to it. Calm down, no one is getting hurt here. It's a matter of semantics and a professional knows that.
@@TheLastWalenta That's fair enough. I'm sorry if I sounded condescending. I simply don't see your original example as being analogous of Mr. McEnroe comments. True enough, as well, he could've been more gentle, but wasn't. Then again, he's known for these type of smashmouth remarks. And we are most certainly agreed, Ms. Williams is absolutely not the best female tennis of all time. As a complete player, I choose Ms. Navratilova. Actually, Steffi Graf might just edge her a a complete player. Her slams were certainly more impressive, for sure. Nice chatting.
@@AGTsakumis I didn't mean to say you were condescending: that the comment by McEnroe was condescending. The whole thing is he could make the point without sounding condescending. My examples were to show that even though a statement is factually true doesn't mean it needs to be said.
"I'm gonna buy her 700 hundred roses"
Savage!
"...she's the greatest female tennis player ever". That's a compliment, I don't see why people got upset. If he said she was the greatest tennis player of all time that just wouldn't be true because there are men who could beat her. It's a reflection of the way the world is today, we have to make everybody happy, no one can be offended.
I don’t understand this. The interviewer originally asked McEnroe why she’s not the best player in the world (man or woman) and he explained why. Why should he be punished for telling the truth?
It's the world we live in now where everything can be taken as a slight. People are offended by anything and everything. Media helps foster that environment...