It's only a handful of laptops now, but a trend of removing headphone jacks being brought from the phone space would not be acceptable. Space isn't an excuse, and Bluetooth on Windows is horrific.
Out of curiosity - could it also be because gamers and professionals tend to use headphones with built in audio processors and thus use USB ports? As universal as the 3.5mm jack is, some laptops have such terrible noise from their 3.5mm jack that I just opt for a USB sound card instead, but I also haven't really used a headphone jack for many years.
Oof, adding three keys dedicated to HP software is an instant deal breaker for me, regardless of price. It's a laptop, one of the most important things in a laptop is the keyboard.
@@deivytrajan so you spend x thousands of dollars on a laptop, and then have to download special software and then go in and set up stuff to make those buttons actually worth something......... yeah, great idea. hp dropped the ball here.
@Who Dis? You are just on a roll with bad comments. OP didn't mention queer identities, and your stance on said identities is rancid and misinformed. Be quiet instead of spouting nonsense about something you don't understand.
Alex using something other than his Dell XPS for an extended period of time is a pleasant surprise, if only the price was more reasonable & it had a headphone jack.
i realy dont know why companies are going the apple 2020 route. having good i/o is the reason why i wanna sell my macbook air m1. it just suxx. When i do a presentation i need a hdmi plug for the beamer. when iam editing i need a sd card slot, and in the best case an ethernet port for nas usage. When iam doing audio editing i NEED a headphone Jack. (working as an editor) So why in the world are they selling "pro devices" without i/o for pros? I dont get it
It is all about the aesthetics and not about functionality, unfortunately. Well, mostly about money. They won't include any ports at all if they can get away with it and if it is cheaper.
Right ? Especially for a "Creator." Making video files takes up a lot of space, someone might want to upgrade to a larger SSD as 512gb just doesn't cut it.
Working as an Engineer for HP for their laptop design department previously, they seriously cut so many corners compared to a Thinkpad for example. These things really are not designed to last and we were specifically told to design alongside R&D with planned obsolescence / planned failure in mind. Be warned.
Btw a tip, if your laptop doesn't have dedicated play pause buttons i generally use the four finger tap gesture for it. Not a ton of use for four finger tap that two and three can't solve already
I wish we are allow to change the form factor as well. If I can have my 13 inch laptop perfectly square like a razer blade 13. Holy hell I would travel to whatever country that sells it to get one. Right now, the form factor is trash to me.
They have had other battery drain problems so not likely to get similar battery life, unfortunately. One of the problems people noticed early on was that some of the expansion modules drain power just by being plugged in, even if they're not being used. Like a USB-A port drains power. It's a small amount, but it compounds easily with the bad windows hibernate issue.
@@gorudonu well thats an improvement 👍. That's by no means the only problem people have mention but it was one we saw frequently. Still not sure they would get quite so close in battery life to these laptops but we can hope 🤞
not the same cpu. this hp has a 7736u (zen 3) and the framework will have a 7040 (zen 4). still unknown if 7040u (15w) or 7040hs (35w). probably the 15w ones.
As someone that uses HP elitebook G8's for work the build quality on these and footprint for the 14 inch models are honestly great and run quite quiet, have fantastic keyboards. Just the screen is a bit dim as our company speced them with the lower end screen
Alex is probably my favorite dude at LTT. You can tell he's passionate (like mosy people there) and he just has fun doing it. In addition to enjoying what hes doing, he seems to be trying to spread that fun wiyh the camera crew which in turn makes it feel like we are more connected to the moment.
Hey guys, love your videos and all your product reviews . There’s a small error at min 13:07 where Alex says 14 hours and 15 minutes but you displayed 14.5 instead of 14.25 . Always enjoying and learning a lot from current tech from your videos. Keep it going ❤️❤️❤️
I wonder can this laptop run completely fanless maybe at 15w without killing performance since it has such a large heatsink? It'd be cool if LTT can test that out.
15W is a big ask, but my 13'' HP operates fanless with a battery remaining estimate of 6 hours, so about an 8W power draw, which leaves about 6W for the cpu. Which is already plenty for Zen 2 and above
@Who Dis? no it's not. you spend more money for less IO, then you spend even more money on dongles the macbooks all have soldered ram and no upgradability . . . and they can't be repaired get a dell, or a lenovo, or an msi, or asus, or acer
@@NymbusCumulo928 honestly if you compare a macbook m2 air with this hp you know what is better, right? the macbook. That being said, a "normal" laptop will be better.
One more reason i love the idea of Framework, choose your IO, get whatever ports you want. Even on the 16, despite removing the headphone jack from the chassis, you can still get a card for it, and you're still up by one add-on card compared to the 13.
Looks very cool. Two things disappoint me, notably them not going with the new Zen 4 chips (even though that R7 is still quite good) and I think a 16:10 display would've been nicer.
I don't know a single person that has used a 3.5mm jack in at least 7-8 years. I do not want a audio jack on any new PC I buy. Not having thunderbolt on both sides sucks though.
@@SirDragonClaw I dunno man… as a DJ, those things are still super useful. Even when editing videos, they’re still handy. If HP wants to label it a “pro” device, it should still have some features and functionality that professionals use. Not having a 3.5 is a major factor in a laptop buying decision for me.
@@SirDragonClaw It is always nice to have options for those who do.. having a headphone jack isn't going to bite you but not having it will definitely be inconvenience for those who need it. You should realise you are not the centre of the universe and while we are at it, I recommend getting to know a few more people than the 2 friends you know because I sure as hell know a lot of people who use the 3.5mm jack very often.
CPU is a refreshed 6800U (like others have also mentioned). The two USB4/Thunderbolt3 ports are very nice to have, finally! Lack of USB A, HDMI, SD card and ethernet are a real bummer in this size and weight class. No headphone jack is unforgivable and a deal breaker. Also kind of stupid to not offer a 90Hz display option.
The literal buy vs no-buy criteria for me on getting a new laptop is a number pad. I understand on 14 inch laptops, and 13", but on literally anything bigger, it should absolutely be a requirement. For those 7 people that had the same last laptop I had, HP Pavillion Power 15t, it had a number pad, and solid gpu & cpu with i7 series (i7700HQ was basically the go-to high end laptop CPU) and a 1050ti or a bit up. This SUPER professional looking laptop was like 5lbs or so and could completely crank in stuff. Now, the only way you're getting good gaming performance is if you get a super gaming looking laptop that couldn't ever be brought into a meeting, AND THEY WON'T HAVE HECKIN NUMBER PADS!!!! HP and other manufacturers seriously need to go back to allowing professionals to buy a laptop that suits both their gaming life, along with their serious professional life.
good thing framework is coming here with a 16" model that will allow you to put the number pad on both the right or left side of the keyboard AND have any gpu you want.
As someone who used to work on at an IT Helpdesk that used mostly HP's, the HP Elite laptops were great to work with. We did end up paying quite a premium for the Elites which might be hard to justify for people doing light office work, but their looks did stand out and seemed to impress clients. When we did try the Pro lineup, the finish and quality just weren't the same. Not a huge deal breaker if looks aren't important, but what kept us paying the Elite premium was the elevated service that Elite laptops and other equipment got. Yes, believe it or not, there was a separate support line to call if you had an Elite laptop vs a Pro laptop, and it made a world of difference when I needed to get HP to warranty damaged laptops.
No headphone jack on a laptop is an instant dealbreaker for me. (not even one usb type A kinda also but not as hard) I can kinda maybe sort of understand it on a phone [shakes fist angrily at Apple] but on a laptop just no. There's plenty of room, and no matter what you think, wired audio is and will always work better.
Why do people pay $3400 for what is essentially a $700 laptop, that hp dragonfly elite, pillow corners and magnesium alloy, is virtually the same device as my brothers swift 3. Except 5 times the price and presumably some luxuries that no normal person will use.
Would be amazing if you could not only present the screens delta to accuracy, but also gamut coverage of the most common used color spaces (sRGB, AdobeRGB, DP3 / NTSC). Add to that a note on how low the delta goes AFTER a manual calibration. There's plenty of screens out there that start of worse than a competitor but pull ahead in actual color reproduction once properly calibrated. Those models likely don't have additional features like 3D-LUT support for calibration, but should you test one that does, then highlighting that feature can be a huge deal for professionals. If those things are coming and the lab just isn't there yet, then great! If it's simply left away for simplicity sake, I urge you to at least list the gamut coverage after calibration. Just the delta doesn't say much about the actual performance rather than accuracy. In any case, great video with very nuanced and throughout testing. Laptops being prebuild by nature and / or limited in part selection makes it quite hard to find good comparisons and a decent review for every model. So thank you for continuing this battle against the rise of new releases!
2:35 freaking right... I've found myself using a type C with 2 USB devices always connected... C mon HP... Not even headphone jack... Bluetooth literally sucks on laptops... Premium price and low budget IO... Literally Apple before the M1...
Framework really need to step up their battery optimisation because they're seriously in a position now to knock the legacy companies out of the park. The new Ryzen framebook 13 should have a 7840u, with a newer better generation of CPU core and a new RDNA 3 GPU, and it's battery is only marginally smaller than this (61 Vs 63Wh). All this while having a 3:2 display, good build quality, and great I/O. In theory, it could match or exceed the battery life of this laptop (14 hours) but if the intel variant is anything to go by (compared to similarly specced laptops), it's probably going to struggle to go past 10, which isnt ideal. I'm still very excited for it and happy I've got my order in.
I've always bought what has been the best bang for the buck and for the longest time that was usually AMD. While I'm still bang/buck I'm definitely rooting for AMD and It's great to see them doing good.
Airplane mode's only useful real world use is if you're having issues with public wi-fi, or especially if you use a mobile hotspot adapter, especially the later, some reason they tend to like bug out and stop working randomly, and only way to fix it is to manually disconnect and reconnect, or turn off your wi-fi and turn it back on.. so airplane mode is just more quicker/convenient to accomplish this.
@@garyblake9665 1st time seeing someone explain my problem with windows 11 :) Use my phone unlimited internet as hotspot and windows be like, nope not connected anymore in about half an hour or so, but also discovered there's this thing called USB tethering NEAT.
@@gamerdweebentertainment1616 In a sense, yes. By turning Airplane mode on, then off again, it forces the antennas to refresh and look for the best signal.
This is genuinely one of the best tech reviews I've watched in years. I appreciate the honesty, the passion, the swearing (lol), the delivery, etc. Well done 👍
18:28 I understand hubs are not the best thing in the world but if IO is really the only issue, its such an easy and cheap fix that i hardly understand why it would dictate the recommendation .. it just feels a bit over the top
I bought the HP Elitebook 860 G9 based on your guys' recommendation. I had to return it because like on this Pro, the LCD was utter dog doo-doo. Pretty sure my 12 year old basic monitor has better pixel response times. Even for office work it was unbearable. Also, the track pad on that thing would randomly left-click all over the screen opening a million random things. It was perfect on all other accounts, but those 2 problems were a deal breaker. I exchanged that for an XPS 9520. I really miss the numpad but it's been great otherwise.
What pissed me off about this laptop is that the cpu is just a bloody 6800u. Don't get me wrong, absolutely incredible SoC, but the fact that I needed to look that up pisses me off.
No headphone/mic jack, no full size usb, and redundant support macros? Alex should have just sent it back to HP! Even Apple does not have this level of "courage." Its a shame cause the rest of this laptop is not bad.
People are really sleeping on the Lenovo IdeaPad flex lineup. Got mine from Costco for $400 put a 1tb m.2 in it. Works fantastic for most of my use cases
@@guadalupe8589 That's one thing Samsung has done very well...they offer top tier hardware in a variety of sizes. If you want a small phone, S23 is for you...if you wanna go HAM, S23 Ultra it is...if you want the "just right", S23+ is the way. I like that.
I have an 865 G9 with a 6850HS with an iGPU 680M, I was shocked I could play Cyberpunk at an average of 45 fps at 1080p with no drops below 30. Also IO is fantastic on that one too. Amazing how these little monsters work great. Thin and lights are getting scary good.
Honestly, even my laptop which just has a 4700U is able to get enough performance in the games I play at 720p on my 1440p screen, really questioning my investment in my desktop pc last year. I guess one more memory generation (DDR6) and stacked cache for the iGPU and the desktop pc is pretty much dead to me, especially from an efficiency standpoint
@@or2kr honestly with usb 4x2 coming with 80gb of speed it's basically a pcie 3.0 8x slot that's hot swappable... My desktop may end up going away when that comes out and going to an enclosure setup
Every time someone does a matte vs glossy comparison to prove the matte looks way better in whatever lighting conditions, the glossy always looks way better to me lol.
@@koerel a swipe of a microfiber cloth and your greasy fingerprints are gone. If you use cameras and have microfiber cloths it should be in arms reach of you, if not its just about $15 for one and it is great for all glossy screens, lenses etc.
I feel like how Alex felt about the I/O every time I see one of those suuuper awkward side angle shots while he's looking at the other camera. But regardless of that I truely enjoy the brutally honest review lol. This is exactly the stuff I enjoy 🔥🔥
Love your reviews soo much! Calling the manufacturers out for the exact right reasons every time! I hope someday the manufacturers will listen more to the community again...
@Who Dis? Your point? Nobody shopping for a Windows PC is also considering switching to a Mac. (Also, mentioning gaming as a strong point for the Mac is laughable.)
I'm using an HP Pavilion Aero 13 and for me, it's perfect. Very lightweight, good IO and powerful AMD CPU. I hope they release a newer version with the newer AMD CPUs.
It limits your ability to upgrade but does not limit your ability to repair (as long as HP provide the firmware tools to reset the controler) replacing the NAND dies is cheap and easy for any repair store. And is better repair than throwing away working controllers and dram. However currently the only vendor that ships devices with soldered SSDs that provides tools to reset the controler is apple. LTT should start calling vendors like HP out to tell them to share this software they have it and likly would share it if enough media put pressure on them to do so. Right to repair is not about right to upgrade, or right for a non skilled repair it is about right for a skilled repair person with tooling etc to do a repair. Sodlering components is fine and since it then requires HP to have the firmware tools to reset the controler means it is then in the power of the OEM to release the tooling were using a off the shelf NVMe drive means getting the tooling is no long in HPs power and will be impossible (non of the NVMe vendors out there provide tooling to reset controllers at all).
Vaio’s used to have a magenta hue from Sony’s anti-glare coating. I wonder if there’s a similar feature for the Elite that causes the drop in color accuracy?
I just don't understand the obsession with these tiny laptops that have horrible I/O...I would much rather have a thicker, slightly heavier laptop that has all the ports I could ever need! Not to mention that a thicker laptop can be cooled better, giving you better performance. Plus you would have more room for a bigger battery! I used to lug around an 8lb laptop back in the day, and It really wasn't a problem...
@chidorirasenganz! I never said usb-c was bad...I use it all the time, but the fact is that most peripherals use usb-a...I would never buy a laptop that only had usb-c/thunderbolt!
@@brucepreston3927 but that just gives peripheral companies more reason to keep doing it which is part of why it's been a decade and we still haven't switched over. Motherboard manufacturers are probably even more to blame because hardly any pcs have usb c on the back so peripherals have to stay on a. It's an endless cycle. Consumers need to start giving manufacturers crap about it and calling out their Amish ports for what they are
@@andrewk8636 yea, I suppose you're right, but I just feel like I'm getting screwed no matter which way it goes! I know it will be better in the long run to switch everything to usb-c, but honestly I have never had an issue with usb-a for most things...And like it or not, with the amount of peripherals out there in use right now with usb-a, they aren't going anywhere for a while...I guess my whole point for posting in the firat place was that I'm tired of spending $2500 on laptops that have like 3 usb ports and nothing else! They have room in most laptop chassis to put an SD card reader and full size HDMI and if they don't then people should insist that they make it the 1mm thicker that it need to accommodate it...They have gotten ridiculous about trying to make it as thin as possible for no reason whatsoever!
HP is not my go-to for "pro" devices. But they ARE my go-to for cheap, refurbished, super budget friendly laptops. If I have $500 I can get _a lot of computer_ out of an HP at my local micro center. I even got a 2-in-1 HP Envy that I can use as a tablet during tasting events, as well as video streaming. Honestly for that price the best I can usually hope for is a chromebook POS that turns on, but at least HP is delivering real computers. Would I ever pay list price for an HP laptop? Hell no, but list price for all laptops is kinda out of control these days. I don't need laptops for luxury. They just gotta _work,_ like RuPaul. So I'll settle for the laptop with the bare specs to do what I need. And HP makes basic bitch laptops for basic bitches like me.
I recently got a Latitude 9410 - 2 in1, slim, 20+ hours of battery, 2 USB A, HDMI, etc good speakers, keyboard, screen etc, and it was £400. Last year's leftovers really are the answer
18:06 It's not just the soldered SSD failing that worries me; it's the fact of the SSD eventually exhausting its read/write cycles (which _will_ happen as that's just a part of SSD technology), and then you'll either need to know soldering techniques, hope for a replacement motherboard instead of just replacing the SSD, or accept having a brick. *Framework has shown that you **_can_** have thin laptops with everything upgradable! WE NEED TO NOT ACCEPT THIS FROM OEMS!*
God I would have loved it if the video ended the moment he saw there was no headphone jack. No headphone output on a laptop is 100% inexcusable. This machine is complete trash because of that single omission.
The more videos I watch the less I think I can trust this channel.. 4:39 The touchpad is exactly the same size, not "a bit larger".. 5:52 bends screen like 10° and calls it "really well built".. 9:17 I'd rather have airplane mode and two other buttons than pause/play, back and forward.. Those shortcuts just s*ck in windows. But that's my opinion.. 10:16 1920x1200 is not 16:9 it's 16:10, otherwise it would be the good old 1920x1080 aka "1080p".. After this I had the video as background noise..
11:42 So I finally looked up why people keep on using MT/s and not clock frequency. You guys should do a techquickie on the difference, because I am highly skeptical on pretty much every DDR RAM clock frequency that I am seeing now, because I think they are mulitplying by 2 as if they are only transferring on one edge. I don't know if I see RAM advertised as 6400 MHz is actually 6400 MHz on rising and falling edges (12800 MT/s - insane), or if it is 3200 MHz on rising and falling edges ( 6400 MT/s - sane).
I honestly would prefer a usb c port over a usb a port. I've moved on from usb a as have many others. I think Alex should learn to do the same. I would like a headphone jack though...
It's only a handful of laptops now, but a trend of removing headphone jacks being brought from the phone space would not be acceptable. Space isn't an excuse, and Bluetooth on Windows is horrific.
So many new Bluetooth standards out and its still horrible on windows. Screw windows 11, just fix the damn bluetooth.
100%, I'll never buy a laptop without a 3.5mm port.
I love that Apple has them and these laptops don’t.
Out of curiosity - could it also be because gamers and professionals tend to use headphones with built in audio processors and thus use USB ports?
As universal as the 3.5mm jack is, some laptops have such terrible noise from their 3.5mm jack that I just opt for a USB sound card instead, but I also haven't really used a headphone jack for many years.
Yeah even macbook airs have freaking headphone jacks.
Oof, adding three keys dedicated to HP software is an instant deal breaker for me, regardless of price. It's a laptop, one of the most important things in a laptop is the keyboard.
Yeah those buttons are should be the standard dedicated home, page up, page down and end button like other laptops
Waste of keyboard space
you can change what each key on the laptop does with a software…
@@deivytrajan yeah but you can't change the icon on it
@@deivytrajan so you spend x thousands of dollars on a laptop, and then have to download special software and then go in and set up stuff to make those buttons actually worth something......... yeah, great idea. hp dropped the ball here.
I'll go and get myself an $800 Zephyrus G14 6700S thank you.
Do these companies ever follow up on the reviews when there are things you don't like? Id like to hear what they have to say about it.
@Who Dis? Lol someone woke up with a stick up their arse
@Who Dis? yknow there are many issues in how tech companies are nowadays but i dont think thats a major one
@Who Dis? i too love making up things that do not exist or happen
@Who Dis? Woah that's a big deflection
@Who Dis? You are just on a roll with bad comments. OP didn't mention queer identities, and your stance on said identities is rancid and misinformed. Be quiet instead of spouting nonsense about something you don't understand.
Alex using something other than his Dell XPS for an extended period of time is a pleasant surprise, if only the price was more reasonable & it had a headphone jack.
i realy dont know why companies are going the apple 2020 route. having good i/o is the reason why i wanna sell my macbook air m1. it just suxx. When i do a presentation i need a hdmi plug for the beamer. when iam editing i need a sd card slot, and in the best case an ethernet port for nas usage. When iam doing audio editing i NEED a headphone Jack. (working as an editor)
So why in the world are they selling "pro devices" without i/o for pros? I dont get it
@Who Dis? did you not read the comment lol
It's not like the dragonfly is the only windows laptop on the market. There are hundreds of other different options
It is all about the aesthetics and not about functionality, unfortunately. Well, mostly about money. They won't include any ports at all if they can get away with it and if it is cheaper.
Look up the Elite G3 prices for your location, even though Alex says its 3000+, here where I live it's €1499, no joke.
Amazing laptop but the lack of headphone jack and the soldered SSD kills it for me :(
@Who Dis? Did you miss the part where he talked about the soldered SSD
@@defnotatroll he is a troll
@@brucepreston3927 shame on me for taking the bait
Right ? Especially for a "Creator." Making video files takes up a lot of space, someone might want to upgrade to a larger SSD as 512gb just doesn't cut it.
@@Gatorade69 eh a video editor would be editing from an external anyways
I like how this laptop is basically "Pay More Get Less" in terms of ports lmao
But it's less than half the price of the other
2 thunderbolt? no lol
@@mop0014 I'm on a ThinkPad T420 and I've got heaps of ports and a better keyboard and its a fraction of the price of both
@@lennytlm Ports are not expensive to include. It is always because of other reasons.
My Asus tuff laptop I got for $1200 does gaming, live streaming etc and ghastly more io.
I love that Alex is just bursting with anger on all those companies, when he doesn’t like something. They need to feel it when they do wrong
I thought he was gonna smash the laptop on the desk to test it when he took the desk pad away.
Working as an Engineer for HP for their laptop design department previously, they seriously cut so many corners compared to a Thinkpad for example. These things really are not designed to last and we were specifically told to design alongside R&D with planned obsolescence / planned failure in mind. Be warned.
Sounds about right
@Tong Zou It's only been 4 years. That's normal
Does hp even have anything that doesn't have planned obsolescence built in mind?
my T440P is now 9 years old and still trucking beautifully
@@sla5303 Those still make great cheap laptops, especially because they're upgradable to a relatively crazy degree
Engineer at CES: _"A tall Canadian demands we round our laptop corners, Sir!"_
Mr Boss _"I knew this day would come...."_
🤣
lmao
Btw a tip, if your laptop doesn't have dedicated play pause buttons i generally use the four finger tap gesture for it. Not a ton of use for four finger tap that two and three can't solve already
I vouch for this 100%.
Good to see how AMD performs. The framework will have the same CPU and 61 battery.
I wish we are allow to change the form factor as well. If I can have my 13 inch laptop perfectly square like a razer blade 13. Holy hell I would travel to whatever country that sells it to get one. Right now, the form factor is trash to me.
They have had other battery drain problems so not likely to get similar battery life, unfortunately. One of the problems people noticed early on was that some of the expansion modules drain power just by being plugged in, even if they're not being used. Like a USB-A port drains power. It's a small amount, but it compounds easily with the bad windows hibernate issue.
@@The_Cyber_System I think those problems are fixed now with new boards. There's even schematics showing how to fix first gen
@@gorudonu well thats an improvement 👍. That's by no means the only problem people have mention but it was one we saw frequently. Still not sure they would get quite so close in battery life to these laptops but we can hope 🤞
not the same cpu. this hp has a 7736u (zen 3) and the framework will have a 7040 (zen 4). still unknown if 7040u (15w) or 7040hs (35w). probably the 15w ones.
As someone that uses HP elitebook G8's for work the build quality on these and footprint for the 14 inch models are honestly great and run quite quiet, have fantastic keyboards. Just the screen is a bit dim as our company speced them with the lower end screen
Alex is probably my favorite dude at LTT. You can tell he's passionate (like mosy people there) and he just has fun doing it. In addition to enjoying what hes doing, he seems to be trying to spread that fun wiyh the camera crew which in turn makes it feel like we are more connected to the moment.
Also doesn't hold back.
that elite is so impressive, it pulled him away from the XPS 15
He keeps shitting on the dell so it doesn't seem like he really liked it
@Who Dis? I suggest you to go touch some grass, lmao.
@@PurpleCh4lk I hate that term but I think it really applies in this case.
@@meunknown69420 Definite Apple Simp.
"well built" that screen bent like a noodle 😭
also side note 1920 by 1200 is still 16:10 not 16:9
He puts a lot of force into it. He's probably talking about resistance to flex
But it was al dente, not overcooked.
@Aar true but a plastic thinkpad t430 from ancient egypt had less flex
@10:16 1920x1200 is 16:10 (the timestamp is kind of ironic here 😄), or the pixels must be non-square, which I doubt.
it hit me too:D
Hey guys, love your videos and all your product reviews . There’s a small error at min 13:07 where Alex says 14 hours and 15 minutes but you displayed 14.5 instead of 14.25 . Always enjoying and learning a lot from current tech from your videos. Keep it going ❤️❤️❤️
Props to the editor for editing in the airpod at 3:51 haha
What I like the most is the brutal honesty in the reviews.
Just say what's not good, and say what's great, makes a perfect review.
3:51 I love how they put an airpod in his ear for a second there.
"Let's begin the unboxing process"
drops the content of the whole box in one go
This is the way.
That HP logo on the lid's hitting different to the usual one.
I like it.
I also like the new logo, they seem to use it on their more expensive and upmarket products!
I wonder can this laptop run completely fanless maybe at 15w without killing performance since it has such a large heatsink? It'd be cool if LTT can test that out.
Should be possible if the heatsink is connected to the bottom panel so it can use the chasis for heat dissipation.
15W is a big ask, but my 13'' HP operates fanless with a battery remaining estimate of 6 hours, so about an 8W power draw, which leaves about 6W for the cpu. Which is already plenty for Zen 2 and above
"HP, I'm Disappointed," said everyone, everywhere, always.
@Who Dis? no it's not.
you spend more money for less IO, then you spend even more money on dongles
the macbooks all have soldered ram and no upgradability . . . and they can't be repaired
get a dell, or a lenovo, or an msi, or asus, or acer
@@NymbusCumulo928 honestly if you compare a macbook m2 air with this hp you know what is better, right? the macbook. That being said, a "normal" laptop will be better.
One more reason i love the idea of Framework, choose your IO, get whatever ports you want. Even on the 16, despite removing the headphone jack from the chassis, you can still get a card for it, and you're still up by one add-on card compared to the 13.
Wow, the overhead shot of the laptop at 1:55 is a great example to judge video bitrate at different resolutions...
Looks very cool. Two things disappoint me, notably them not going with the new Zen 4 chips (even though that R7 is still quite good) and I think a 16:10 display would've been nicer.
it IS 16 to 10 ratio screen - WUXGA (1920 x 1200)
and multitouch-enabled !
@@cthulpiss Cool, I was confused because the resolution sounded like q
16:10 but Alex said 16:9 in the video
You made a mistake at 10:17 it says 1920x1200 (16:9) that's just not how it works. That would be 16:10
Regarding the color accuracy - would be cool to know whether this individual sample is representative or what typical production variance is.
If the resolution is 1920x1200, it's definitely not 16:9; that resolution is 16:10 (same aspect ratio as MacBooks)
really surprising about the audio jack.. even MacBook airs still have their 3.5
I don't know a single person that has used a 3.5mm jack in at least 7-8 years. I do not want a audio jack on any new PC I buy. Not having thunderbolt on both sides sucks though.
@@SirDragonClaw I dunno man… as a DJ, those things are still super useful. Even when editing videos, they’re still handy. If HP wants to label it a “pro” device, it should still have some features and functionality that professionals use. Not having a 3.5 is a major factor in a laptop buying decision for me.
@@SirDragonClaw most people that want good audio will use a headphone jack
@@SirDragonClaw It is always nice to have options for those who do.. having a headphone jack isn't going to bite you but not having it will definitely be inconvenience for those who need it.
You should realise you are not the centre of the universe and while we are at it, I recommend getting to know a few more people than the 2 friends you know because I sure as hell know a lot of people who use the 3.5mm jack very often.
@@Deimos-Oso It should be an option when you go to purchase it
18:21 fully agree! USBA, Thunderbolt, Jack, HDMI, and another USBC if not power connector, is what I expect to have
CPU is a refreshed 6800U (like others have also mentioned). The two USB4/Thunderbolt3 ports are very nice to have, finally! Lack of USB A, HDMI, SD card and ethernet are a real bummer in this size and weight class. No headphone jack is unforgivable and a deal breaker. Also kind of stupid to not offer a 90Hz display option.
The literal buy vs no-buy criteria for me on getting a new laptop is a number pad. I understand on 14 inch laptops, and 13", but on literally anything bigger, it should absolutely be a requirement. For those 7 people that had the same last laptop I had, HP Pavillion Power 15t, it had a number pad, and solid gpu & cpu with i7 series (i7700HQ was basically the go-to high end laptop CPU) and a 1050ti or a bit up. This SUPER professional looking laptop was like 5lbs or so and could completely crank in stuff. Now, the only way you're getting good gaming performance is if you get a super gaming looking laptop that couldn't ever be brought into a meeting, AND THEY WON'T HAVE HECKIN NUMBER PADS!!!! HP and other manufacturers seriously need to go back to allowing professionals to buy a laptop that suits both their gaming life, along with their serious professional life.
Team numpad!!
good thing framework is coming here with a 16" model that will allow you to put the number pad on both the right or left side of the keyboard AND have any gpu you want.
My biggest problem with my hp is the home button is right next to the backspace and I sometimes forget how short the backspace is and hit home
I love Alex's SCs and willingness to say loud what sucks
As someone who used to work on at an IT Helpdesk that used mostly HP's, the HP Elite laptops were great to work with. We did end up paying quite a premium for the Elites which might be hard to justify for people doing light office work, but their looks did stand out and seemed to impress clients. When we did try the Pro lineup, the finish and quality just weren't the same. Not a huge deal breaker if looks aren't important, but what kept us paying the Elite premium was the elevated service that Elite laptops and other equipment got. Yes, believe it or not, there was a separate support line to call if you had an Elite laptop vs a Pro laptop, and it made a world of difference when I needed to get HP to warranty damaged laptops.
For someone living in Canada and looking for a decent budget laptop, I suggest grabbing a Lenovo. Seems to be the cheapest and good enough specs.
quick correction: 1920 by 1200 is actually 16:10, but overall great vid!
Yer a disappointment Harry
You’re balenciaga Harry
hp stands for Harry Potter
Potter!!
Harry potters love 💕 craft....
OI’m a what?
Man the edit on the air pods pro was crazy good job editor was too slick 👌
No headphone jack on a laptop is an instant dealbreaker for me. (not even one usb type A kinda also but not as hard)
I can kinda maybe sort of understand it on a phone [shakes fist angrily at Apple] but on a laptop just no. There's plenty of room, and no matter what you think, wired audio is and will always work better.
Why do people pay $3400 for what is essentially a $700 laptop, that hp dragonfly elite, pillow corners and magnesium alloy, is virtually the same device as my brothers swift 3. Except 5 times the price and presumably some luxuries that no normal person will use.
Would be amazing if you could not only present the screens delta to accuracy, but also gamut coverage of the most common used color spaces (sRGB, AdobeRGB, DP3 / NTSC). Add to that a note on how low the delta goes AFTER a manual calibration. There's plenty of screens out there that start of worse than a competitor but pull ahead in actual color reproduction once properly calibrated. Those models likely don't have additional features like 3D-LUT support for calibration, but should you test one that does, then highlighting that feature can be a huge deal for professionals.
If those things are coming and the lab just isn't there yet, then great! If it's simply left away for simplicity sake, I urge you to at least list the gamut coverage after calibration. Just the delta doesn't say much about the actual performance rather than accuracy.
In any case, great video with very nuanced and throughout testing. Laptops being prebuild by nature and / or limited in part selection makes it quite hard to find good comparisons and a decent review for every model. So thank you for continuing this battle against the rise of new releases!
bit of correction at 10:17 - 1920x1200 is 16:10 aspect ratio
1920x1200 is 16:10, not 16:9
2:35 freaking right... I've found myself using a type C with 2 USB devices always connected... C mon HP... Not even headphone jack... Bluetooth literally sucks on laptops... Premium price and low budget IO... Literally Apple before the M1...
thank you SO much for still calling brand out like this.
I like how airpods were edited onto Alex at 3:52 as he says airpods pro nice touch
Framework really need to step up their battery optimisation because they're seriously in a position now to knock the legacy companies out of the park. The new Ryzen framebook 13 should have a 7840u, with a newer better generation of CPU core and a new RDNA 3 GPU, and it's battery is only marginally smaller than this (61 Vs 63Wh). All this while having a 3:2 display, good build quality, and great I/O.
In theory, it could match or exceed the battery life of this laptop (14 hours) but if the intel variant is anything to go by (compared to similarly specced laptops), it's probably going to struggle to go past 10, which isnt ideal. I'm still very excited for it and happy I've got my order in.
1:42 Minecraft villager noise
AMD killing it on mobile - super stoked for what they bring over the next couple generations.
I've always bought what has been the best bang for the buck and for the longest time that was usually AMD. While I'm still bang/buck I'm definitely rooting for AMD and It's great to see them doing good.
Too bad they keep putting shit wifi cards in these laptops. It gets really ugly when it's soldered like in lots of ryzen 6000 thinkpads
2:24 my dad would slap me if he saw me treating any electronic device like that..
Airplane mode's only useful real world use is if you're having issues with public wi-fi, or especially if you use a mobile hotspot adapter, especially the later, some reason they tend to like bug out and stop working randomly, and only way to fix it is to manually disconnect and reconnect, or turn off your wi-fi and turn it back on.. so airplane mode is just more quicker/convenient to accomplish this.
What you on about?
airplane mode fixes that? hmmm...
@@garyblake9665 1st time seeing someone explain my problem with windows 11 :) Use my phone unlimited internet as hotspot and windows be like, nope not connected anymore in about half an hour or so, but also discovered there's this thing called USB tethering NEAT.
@@gamerdweebentertainment1616 In a sense, yes. By turning Airplane mode on, then off again, it forces the antennas to refresh and look for the best signal.
This is genuinely one of the best tech reviews I've watched in years. I appreciate the honesty, the passion, the swearing (lol), the delivery, etc. Well done 👍
What is very disappointing is that my Envy 360 (4500u version) has all the i/o of the elite and more for 600 bucks.
I've got a 4700U and same here. I sometimes think about upgrading but others seem to be a compromise
And the Zephyrus G14 6700S creams in 1070TI-class grunt for just $300 more 😘👌
Same, plus actually useful keys
18:28 I understand hubs are not the best thing in the world but if IO is really the only issue, its such an easy and cheap fix that i hardly understand why it would dictate the recommendation ..
it just feels a bit over the top
I bought the HP Elitebook 860 G9 based on your guys' recommendation. I had to return it because like on this Pro, the LCD was utter dog doo-doo. Pretty sure my 12 year old basic monitor has better pixel response times. Even for office work it was unbearable.
Also, the track pad on that thing would randomly left-click all over the screen opening a million random things. It was perfect on all other accounts, but those 2 problems were a deal breaker.
I exchanged that for an XPS 9520. I really miss the numpad but it's been great otherwise.
It's likely 16:10 instead of 16:9 since it has a 1920*1200 resolution not 1920*1080 unless it has non-square pixels, shortcircuit, I'm disappointed.
What pissed me off about this laptop is that the cpu is just a bloody 6800u. Don't get me wrong, absolutely incredible SoC, but the fact that I needed to look that up pisses me off.
6800u refresh. According to what Alex says there it's still an incredible chip
15:16 “When 900 years old you get, switch pixels as fast you will not!”
-Yoda, probably
I am also disappointed in HP way before this. Glad my feelings still track.
No headphone/mic jack, no full size usb, and redundant support macros? Alex should have just sent it back to HP! Even Apple does not have this level of "courage." Its a shame cause the rest of this laptop is not bad.
i'm surprised he said the display and deck flex was okay, that's an insane amount. none of my laptops flex that much
Agreed! I was surprised too, my MBP has zero of either
@@matteoveglia i use a thinkpad t460 and there's virtually no flex at all
hes sucking up to the device, theres acer swift 3 and acer swift 5 models that are a quarter of the price with virtually all the same features.
People are really sleeping on the Lenovo IdeaPad flex lineup. Got mine from Costco for $400 put a 1tb m.2 in it. Works fantastic for most of my use cases
Good to see I'm not the only one that wants a laptop that isn't the size of my front door.
If only they also made smartphones a bit smaller.
@@Ale-bj7nd I'm currently rocking an S23 Ultra that I LOVE...so...yea. I like my phone on the big side. Laptop? Not so much.
@@rmp5s soon enough, they'll be the same size
@@guadalupe8589 That's one thing Samsung has done very well...they offer top tier hardware in a variety of sizes. If you want a small phone, S23 is for you...if you wanna go HAM, S23 Ultra it is...if you want the "just right", S23+ is the way. I like that.
@@rmp5s i never really liked the samsungs, but at least they do that size variety.
I have an 865 G9 with a 6850HS with an iGPU 680M, I was shocked I could play Cyberpunk at an average of 45 fps at 1080p with no drops below 30. Also IO is fantastic on that one too. Amazing how these little monsters work great. Thin and lights are getting scary good.
Honestly, even my laptop which just has a 4700U is able to get enough performance in the games I play at 720p on my 1440p screen, really questioning my investment in my desktop pc last year. I guess one more memory generation (DDR6) and stacked cache for the iGPU and the desktop pc is pretty much dead to me, especially from an efficiency standpoint
@@or2kr honestly with usb 4x2 coming with 80gb of speed it's basically a pcie 3.0 8x slot that's hot swappable... My desktop may end up going away when that comes out and going to an enclosure setup
Every time someone does a matte vs glossy comparison to prove the matte looks way better in whatever lighting conditions, the glossy always looks way better to me lol.
Glossy does always look better... until you have issues with light and reflections.
Glossy looks better until you touch it.
@@koerel a swipe of a microfiber cloth and your greasy fingerprints are gone. If you use cameras and have microfiber cloths it should be in arms reach of you, if not its just about $15 for one and it is great for all glossy screens, lenses etc.
Pretty sure that 1920x1200 is a 16:10 ratio…
Has Alex ever reviewed or shared his thoughts on the Framework laptop?
He wrote what linus reviewed in main ltt channel .. so yes
I feel like how Alex felt about the I/O every time I see one of those suuuper awkward side angle shots while he's looking at the other camera.
But regardless of that I truely enjoy the brutally honest review lol. This is exactly the stuff I enjoy 🔥🔥
Love your reviews soo much! Calling the manufacturers out for the exact right reasons every time! I hope someday the manufacturers will listen more to the community again...
"again" lol
There's so much to love about Alex, such as his brutal honesty when it comes to laptops.
"No headphone jack, DNF, Return to Sender, & end the video."
The 680M is such a beast
@Who Dis? Hypothetical performance with no actual use case.
@Who Dis? Oh that's amazing too, I'm sure. But here we're talking about the 680M
@Who Dis? Your point? Nobody shopping for a Windows PC is also considering switching to a Mac.
(Also, mentioning gaming as a strong point for the Mac is laughable.)
@Who Dis? Can you game good games with m2 gpu?
@Who Dis? bro said gaming
At a certain angle on the elite, the scorpion looks like a little knight with tiny arms holding his sword. 😂
I'm using an HP Pavilion Aero 13 and for me, it's perfect. Very lightweight, good IO and powerful AMD CPU. I hope they release a newer version with the newer AMD CPUs.
Do u have a problem accidentally hitting the home key when trying to backspace
The new Ryzen Frameworks look enticing............
Same. Happy with mine (Ryzen 5 5600U version)
Any heating issues with Aero ?
I’ve had a spectre for 6 years no problems ever . Definitely getting a new one
they rounded the new design so it looks kinda sissified. the build on them used to be so amazing
@@andrewk8636 for me “sissified” or not is the last of my concerns. I am not going on a date with my computer.
The soldered ssd is a deal breaker.
And no headphone jack :(. Call me old-school but I love my wired devices, especially headphones.
Pretty sure the RAM is too as it's LPDDR5.
It limits your ability to upgrade but does not limit your ability to repair (as long as HP provide the firmware tools to reset the controler) replacing the NAND dies is cheap and easy for any repair store. And is better repair than throwing away working controllers and dram. However currently the only vendor that ships devices with soldered SSDs that provides tools to reset the controler is apple. LTT should start calling vendors like HP out to tell them to share this software they have it and likly would share it if enough media put pressure on them to do so. Right to repair is not about right to upgrade, or right for a non skilled repair it is about right for a skilled repair person with tooling etc to do a repair. Sodlering components is fine and since it then requires HP to have the firmware tools to reset the controler means it is then in the power of the OEM to release the tooling were using a off the shelf NVMe drive means getting the tooling is no long in HPs power and will be impossible (non of the NVMe vendors out there provide tooling to reset controllers at all).
Vaio’s used to have a magenta hue from Sony’s anti-glare coating. I wonder if there’s a similar feature for the Elite that causes the drop in color accuracy?
Who tf is paying $3700 for these???
Businesses
Management
it got many many security features for business.
People they can easily con... say for example, the staff of a tech youtube channel?
Look up the Elite G3 prices for your location, even though Alex says its 3000+, here where I live it's €1499, no joke.
1920 x 1200 is 16:10 no?
yes, it´s 16:10
3:48 I want a review of the magical earbuds next, please.
I just don't understand the obsession with these tiny laptops that have horrible I/O...I would much rather have a thicker, slightly heavier laptop that has all the ports I could ever need! Not to mention that a thicker laptop can be cooled better, giving you better performance. Plus you would have more room for a bigger battery! I used to lug around an 8lb laptop back in the day, and It really wasn't a problem...
Nah usbc is far better 😂
@chidorirasenganz! I never said usb-c was bad...I use it all the time, but the fact is that most peripherals use usb-a...I would never buy a laptop that only had usb-c/thunderbolt!
@@brucepreston3927 but that just gives peripheral companies more reason to keep doing it which is part of why it's been a decade and we still haven't switched over. Motherboard manufacturers are probably even more to blame because hardly any pcs have usb c on the back so peripherals have to stay on a. It's an endless cycle. Consumers need to start giving manufacturers crap about it and calling out their Amish ports for what they are
@@andrewk8636 yea, I suppose you're right, but I just feel like I'm getting screwed no matter which way it goes! I know it will be better in the long run to switch everything to usb-c, but honestly I have never had an issue with usb-a for most things...And like it or not, with the amount of peripherals out there in use right now with usb-a, they aren't going anywhere for a while...I guess my whole point for posting in the firat place was that I'm tired of spending $2500 on laptops that have like 3 usb ports and nothing else! They have room in most laptop chassis to put an SD card reader and full size HDMI and if they don't then people should insist that they make it the 1mm thicker that it need to accommodate it...They have gotten ridiculous about trying to make it as thin as possible for no reason whatsoever!
Alex does an incredible job reviewing laptops and exposing all their benefits and drawbacks.
HP is not my go-to for "pro" devices. But they ARE my go-to for cheap, refurbished, super budget friendly laptops. If I have $500 I can get _a lot of computer_ out of an HP at my local micro center. I even got a 2-in-1 HP Envy that I can use as a tablet during tasting events, as well as video streaming. Honestly for that price the best I can usually hope for is a chromebook POS that turns on, but at least HP is delivering real computers. Would I ever pay list price for an HP laptop? Hell no, but list price for all laptops is kinda out of control these days. I don't need laptops for luxury. They just gotta _work,_ like RuPaul. So I'll settle for the laptop with the bare specs to do what I need. And HP makes basic bitch laptops for basic bitches like me.
Can't wait to I can pick up a slightly used or refurb 78Wh Elitebook 1040 G7 later this year that gets 16-20 hours of battery life for $400.
At least one full size Type A is mandatory, i dont mind them putting it in the back or front or even top. Just give it to me.
Alex "muuurduuuured" this review!
I recently got a Latitude 9410 - 2 in1, slim, 20+ hours of battery, 2 USB A, HDMI, etc good speakers, keyboard, screen etc, and it was £400. Last year's leftovers really are the answer
The LPDDR5 at 6400 isn't as fast as you think. It's like half the performance of full power desktop DDR5 6400.
Did anyone else notice that upside down the logo is giving you the finger? You'll never unsee it
1920x1200 resolution labelled as 16:9? what?
18:06 It's not just the soldered SSD failing that worries me; it's the fact of the SSD eventually exhausting its read/write cycles (which _will_ happen as that's just a part of SSD technology), and then you'll either need to know soldering techniques, hope for a replacement motherboard instead of just replacing the SSD, or accept having a brick. *Framework has shown that you **_can_** have thin laptops with everything upgradable! WE NEED TO NOT ACCEPT THIS FROM OEMS!*
God I would have loved it if the video ended the moment he saw there was no headphone jack. No headphone output on a laptop is 100% inexcusable. This machine is complete trash because of that single omission.
@10:16 What? 1920x1200 at 16:9 ratio? Are the pixels rectangular? This resolution is normally 16:10 aspect.
The more videos I watch the less I think I can trust this channel..
4:39 The touchpad is exactly the same size, not "a bit larger"..
5:52 bends screen like 10° and calls it "really well built"..
9:17 I'd rather have airplane mode and two other buttons than pause/play, back and forward.. Those shortcuts just s*ck in windows. But that's my opinion..
10:16 1920x1200 is not 16:9 it's 16:10, otherwise it would be the good old 1920x1080 aka "1080p"..
After this I had the video as background noise..
11:42 So I finally looked up why people keep on using MT/s and not clock frequency. You guys should do a techquickie on the difference, because I am highly skeptical on pretty much every DDR RAM clock frequency that I am seeing now, because I think they are mulitplying by 2 as if they are only transferring on one edge. I don't know if I see RAM advertised as 6400 MHz is actually 6400 MHz on rising and falling edges (12800 MT/s - insane), or if it is 3200 MHz on rising and falling edges ( 6400 MT/s - sane).
Last time I arrived this early, my gf was very disappointed
Which is the best pre water-blocked, ready for custom water loop out of the box, overclocked, RTX4090 card?
Probably not the best video to ask that on, bud.
I would trade thiness for more ports anyday. 💯
I honestly would prefer a usb c port over a usb a port. I've moved on from usb a as have many others. I think Alex should learn to do the same. I would like a headphone jack though...