Jediwarlock had that wonderful video on true Nzoth of the Classic that I sometimes rewatch. It is the sense of wonder, mystery, and something being off, on the very edge of the field of vision that just made the lore about the old gods so enjoyable.
for the Old God fights wasn't speculated that we were fighting an avatar of them instead of their main body. the mistake with that is Blizz saying that we actually beat their main bodies.
The old gods are the BIGGEST mistake more so than even zovaal imo. If nzoth doesnt come back with these horrific visions it will be a biggest let down since korthia😢
The old gods are small, physical manifestations of the void lords. The void lords are the true cosmic horrors. The old gods most definitely wanted, in some way, to die so that their blood could seep into the core of the World Soul. When the titans return, they will call us fools for killing the old gods.
My theory and this would absolutely retcon the “deaths” of the other old gods is that they are not “dead” and every time we have “killed” them has been to further their own goals and to operate without us knowing (as we would think they would be dead). As for Magni saying that Azeroth was cleansed of the old gods post nyalotha, he could’ve easily been misled considering we were just taking his word that he was speaking to Azeroth and not N’Zoth. When you also add in the fact that Azeroth allegedly hadn’t spoke to him between N’Zoths “death” and the into to war within it makes you think
I swear I read something, somewhere that said the old gods can't die, they just lie dormant... but our characters don't know that. I also had a theory, back when Shadowlands was a few months in, that we would be returning to BFA (kinda). I noticed that we still had our Hearts of Azeroth and blizz left it fully powered, that was something they had never done before with legendary type weapons and not only that, you can still (to this day) farm Azerite to empower it. So, I had this theory in my mind that at the end of BFA, we actually lost to N'Zoth and instead of killing us, he has kept us in a dream-like state, using whispers and dreams to keep us under control and that Azeroth has essentially been taken over (to what extent, I can't say). Obviously that theory is debunked by now, but it was fun at the time. I mean, it did seem kind of strange how easily we defeated them all...
Blizz made the same mistakes many ttrpg DMs make. You don't allow the players to kill off the gods. Defeat, yes. Murder-hobo them, no. We should never have 'killed' any of the old gods. You also don't allow too long a peek behind the curtain of how your setting works. You need to maintain an air of mystery and fear of the unknown or everything becomes too mundane and your players get bored.
The choice to retcon cthun and yogg fights to be actual kills is the worst decision. At the very least nzoth wasn't 'on azeroth' so his death wouldn't cause more issues, but those two deaths having not mattered for over a decade is insane. Even if they add that the damage was under the planets like in 11.2 surface it's so little way too late
To be fair we only one because all the other titans helped us. Without their buffs Argus would of killed us and sargeras would of defeated the. Pantheon and claimed azeroth.
The counter argument would be that they tried to rip them out of the planet, which is with how buried they were into the planet it caused mortal wounds on the planet. Where was when we "killed" them it was just pushing them back into their prisons, causing them to subside.
So the problem is that the old war was that those were just the manifestations of the old we pushed back. We could not actually kill them. We could only push him back into the prison only recently did a recon that we killed them
I kind of disagree with you on the old gods. As the name clearly states they are 'old' as in past tense as well. Ever since the titans reached to Azeroth they constantly worked on the controll of the world soul and limited the worlds energies to emerge and to be used. Since the old gods were using, maybe, these powers, that means they used to be able to harness more power over the world. But after the Titan's facilities, they were cut off of this power and, maybe, that's how we were able to kill them. Tho , i get your point as well Acco. They were the key for many plots to come so they coulda done it better.
For me that was the BIGGEST mistake Blizz ever did narrative wise, not one of them. They created these cosmological beings that ruled that Azeroth for forever only to be killed by mere mortals in 1 fight with a buildup of 1 patch. That really what ruins WoW for me every single time... just like we killed of Zoval, even though he was built up whole expansion it never felt right. How can you kill such a being with swords and sticks doing few mechanics and killing it in 1 fight. I think they need to change that... the feeling of unsatisfaction of killing such boss would never have to be like it. You need to make WHOLE expansion about certain old god, make us fight him few times, give us some twists... I dont know... LET him WIN at the end to lead us to something bigger.... but no... we kill him with some Azeroth beam that showed up out of nowhere through heart of Azeroth after 1 patch... Nzoth should have won.... Zovaal should have won... nothing else matters... killing Nzoth meant nothing to us literally. "OLD GODS".... yeah right.
That what i think they will be back, we killed them in a prison and we know we killed their physical form. So for me we kinda "freed" them from the Titans prison but im sure we will see them agaim.
Starcraft’s worked because the moment they involved them, they had ending the story in mind. It’s cheesy. It’s epic. It’s done right! Foreshadowed in Starcraft 1. Masterfully ended in 2. If there’s a universe of theirs ripe for a comeback, it’s Starcraft. The old characters may now pass into legend, and the Terrans, Protoss and the Zerg may now have fresh conflict not tied to the problems they resolved, and this time, no more ending the whole thing with them banding together. Weave a decent faction vs faction vs faction story, don’t woke it, don’t plot-twist obsess it, just have them 3 duke it out there, and may the best faction win (or none does). I think this can be done.
I know this is going to be a very hot take, but BFA to Dragonflight fumbled and stumbled to build the lore War Within and the World Soul Saga needed to exist. The truth of none of the cosmological forces being our true allies was made clear during those expansions, with the Light aiding the Jailer in blasting Azeroth with light beams. Which we still don’t know the consequences of, given Light’s new use of necromancy during Shadowlands.
Sargeras was probably attacking part of the manifold. Which is why Azeroth ramps up her attempt to break free of whatever prison she is in immediately after.
N'zoth wasn't so bad I felt, like he was set up in Cataclysm, and had him cropping up time and time again. Sure he died in a patch, but his story was told over much, much longer
WOW's biggest narrative mistake will always be BFA's main plot and Shadowlands. It destroyed WoW's lore for good and with no point of coming back unless they retcon the shit out of Sylvana's and the Jailor's ark. Too many things went wrong in those 2 expansions. The old gods on the other hand have had their time within patches. They can survive a plot of them coming back whenever blizz wishes.
Revealing the Lovecraftian monster is NEVER a good idea
This is a good point. U can do waaaaaay more with having just glimpses or never knowing what they are or what they really look like.
Was it really revealed though? How do we know they are not all one being and they all faked it.
I disagree. Seeing and fighting the old gods is cool, The mistake was declaring they are dead.
Jediwarlock had that wonderful video on true Nzoth of the Classic that I sometimes rewatch. It is the sense of wonder, mystery, and something being off, on the very edge of the field of vision that just made the lore about the old gods so enjoyable.
for the Old God fights wasn't speculated that we were fighting an avatar of them instead of their main body. the mistake with that is Blizz saying that we actually beat their main bodies.
The old gods are the BIGGEST mistake more so than even zovaal imo. If nzoth doesnt come back with these horrific visions it will be a biggest let down since korthia😢
The old gods are small, physical manifestations of the void lords. The void lords are the true cosmic horrors.
The old gods most definitely wanted, in some way, to die so that their blood could seep into the core of the World Soul.
When the titans return, they will call us fools for killing the old gods.
N’Zoth is most definitely not dead.
We can only hope. 🎉
They’ve confirmed we killed him.
@Junglewarfare they also said illidan was dead. Ijs.
Agreed; N’zoth isn’t dead. The raid itself was called Visions of N’Zoth. The raid was just an illusion.
My theory and this would absolutely retcon the “deaths” of the other old gods is that they are not “dead” and every time we have “killed” them has been to further their own goals and to operate without us knowing (as we would think they would be dead).
As for Magni saying that Azeroth was cleansed of the old gods post nyalotha, he could’ve easily been misled considering we were just taking his word that he was speaking to Azeroth and not N’Zoth. When you also add in the fact that Azeroth allegedly hadn’t spoke to him between N’Zoths “death” and the into to war within it makes you think
We need to see what the plan for the black blood is. The old gods are still here in blood form.
They dropped the bag on the old gods 😢
I swear I read something, somewhere that said the old gods can't die, they just lie dormant... but our characters don't know that.
I also had a theory, back when Shadowlands was a few months in, that we would be returning to BFA (kinda). I noticed that we still had our Hearts of Azeroth and blizz left it fully powered, that was something they had never done before with legendary type weapons and not only that, you can still (to this day) farm Azerite to empower it.
So, I had this theory in my mind that at the end of BFA, we actually lost to N'Zoth and instead of killing us, he has kept us in a dream-like state, using whispers and dreams to keep us under control and that Azeroth has essentially been taken over (to what extent, I can't say).
Obviously that theory is debunked by now, but it was fun at the time. I mean, it did seem kind of strange how easily we defeated them all...
Blizz made the same mistakes many ttrpg DMs make. You don't allow the players to kill off the gods. Defeat, yes. Murder-hobo them, no. We should never have 'killed' any of the old gods. You also don't allow too long a peek behind the curtain of how your setting works. You need to maintain an air of mystery and fear of the unknown or everything becomes too mundane and your players get bored.
The choice to retcon cthun and yogg fights to be actual kills is the worst decision. At the very least nzoth wasn't 'on azeroth' so his death wouldn't cause more issues, but those two deaths having not mattered for over a decade is insane. Even if they add that the damage was under the planets like in 11.2 surface it's so little way too late
Agreed. Terrible idea there 😢
Same story for burning legion faction that's been burning down worlds for 10 000+ years gets beaten in one expansion
To be fair we only one because all the other titans helped us. Without their buffs Argus would of killed us and sargeras would of defeated the. Pantheon and claimed azeroth.
The black blood …… line
The counter argument would be that they tried to rip them out of the planet, which is with how buried they were into the planet it caused mortal wounds on the planet. Where was when we "killed" them it was just pushing them back into their prisons, causing them to subside.
So the problem is that the old war was that those were just the manifestations of the old we pushed back. We could not actually kill them. We could only push him back into the prison only recently did a recon that we killed them
oh my dear accolonn, i got metzen a good button
I kind of disagree with you on the old gods. As the name clearly states they are 'old' as in past tense as well. Ever since the titans reached to Azeroth they constantly worked on the controll of the world soul and limited the worlds energies to emerge and to be used. Since the old gods were using, maybe, these powers, that means they used to be able to harness more power over the world. But after the Titan's facilities, they were cut off of this power and, maybe, that's how we were able to kill them.
Tho , i get your point as well Acco. They were the key for many plots to come so they coulda done it better.
Love the hair dude ❤
For me that was the BIGGEST mistake Blizz ever did narrative wise, not one of them.
They created these cosmological beings that ruled that Azeroth for forever only to be killed by mere mortals in 1 fight with a buildup of 1 patch.
That really what ruins WoW for me every single time... just like we killed of Zoval, even though he was built up whole expansion it never felt right.
How can you kill such a being with swords and sticks doing few mechanics and killing it in 1 fight.
I think they need to change that... the feeling of unsatisfaction of killing such boss would never have to be like it.
You need to make WHOLE expansion about certain old god, make us fight him few times, give us some twists... I dont know...
LET him WIN at the end to lead us to something bigger.... but no... we kill him with some Azeroth beam that showed up out of nowhere through heart of Azeroth after 1 patch...
Nzoth should have won.... Zovaal should have won... nothing else matters... killing Nzoth meant nothing to us literally.
"OLD GODS".... yeah right.
That what i think they will be back, we killed them in a prison and we know we killed their physical form. So for me we kinda "freed" them from the Titans prison but im sure we will see them agaim.
Starcraft’s worked because the moment they involved them, they had ending the story in mind. It’s cheesy. It’s epic. It’s done right! Foreshadowed in Starcraft 1. Masterfully ended in 2. If there’s a universe of theirs ripe for a comeback, it’s Starcraft. The old characters may now pass into legend, and the Terrans, Protoss and the Zerg may now have fresh conflict not tied to the problems they resolved, and this time, no more ending the whole thing with them banding together. Weave a decent faction vs faction vs faction story, don’t woke it, don’t plot-twist obsess it, just have them 3 duke it out there, and may the best faction win (or none does). I think this can be done.
Sargeras my personal favorite
I know this is going to be a very hot take, but BFA to Dragonflight fumbled and stumbled to build the lore War Within and the World Soul Saga needed to exist. The truth of none of the cosmological forces being our true allies was made clear during those expansions, with the Light aiding the Jailer in blasting Azeroth with light beams. Which we still don’t know the consequences of, given Light’s new use of necromancy during Shadowlands.
Um, when did the Light ever help Zovaal shoot beams at Azeroth?
The real question is where is the black blood coming from? If it’s from sargerus stabbing the world maybe he was aiming at the 5th old god?
The corpse of C’Thun.
Sargeras was probably attacking part of the manifold. Which is why Azeroth ramps up her attempt to break free of whatever prison she is in immediately after.
N'zoth wasn't so bad I felt, like he was set up in Cataclysm, and had him cropping up time and time again.
Sure he died in a patch, but his story was told over much, much longer
Their biggest mistake was the cosmological chart.
Their pallette is also terrible when revealed. Only the Sha have been convincingly repulsive and scary.
To me, MoP did more justice to the old gods than the other expansions.
WOW's biggest narrative mistake will always be BFA's main plot and Shadowlands. It destroyed WoW's lore for good and with no point of coming back unless they retcon the shit out of Sylvana's and the Jailor's ark. Too many things went wrong in those 2 expansions. The old gods on the other hand have had their time within patches. They can survive a plot of them coming back whenever blizz wishes.
aco glow up nice
Every wow villian Is easy to defeate just for fact LFR exists.
your hair!
They WANTED to die..😊
WoW's biggest narrative mistake is Burning Crusade expansion
Combine with this DLC attunement quest to unlock instances or get stuffs.