I thing Lucifer would win. Not because of his omniscience only, but because as long as he is in creation or has matter near him, he can warp it on an omnipotent level, so that, paired with his omniscience, would be more than enough to defeat the beyonder
Jace OverHeaven the word infinite dimensional has been used "infinite" as a statement, theres nothing beyond infinity.. The only things that beyonds infinite dimensional is omniversal which contains all imagination, expectations, questions, infinitiesimals.
Emodeath 02 The beyond infinite dimensional thing was based the understanding of the Judeo Christian god, basically ancient Catholics and philosophers believe God to be spaceless and timeless, in other words beyond infinite dimensional. According to Plato's Theory of forms there are three levels to reality, the first is physical reality, which in the DC/Vertigo universe contains infinite dimensions, the second is beyond physical and into the conceptual. Basically it is believed anything in the first world only exists as a shadow of something in the Second world; that all things came to those there in the second level of reality as one. For example, the idea of cats could act as object, person or thing in the second world, a personification of cats, this extends to all things, life, death, space, time etc... In the DC universe this is found in the Endless. We see that the Endless are truly spaceless and timeless entities, the first incarnation of a Dream was literally the dream of the Eldritch monsters below and beyond space and all of the Endless are children of Night who exists in the untime beyond all event horizons, death also existed in Lucifer's multiverse. And the third level is God, who is unbound from such concepts of death, unreality, time, cause, effect etc... I'm not saying this is the way our reality works but from my experience this is how the DC cosmology seems to be ordered, with The Presence acting as God, the Endless are the Higher concepts and all reality fits underneath. Lucifer is on a level with the Endless with Dream admitting Lucifer is far, far more powerful than he is and Death being unable to kill Lucifer's ravens. The Beyonder on the other hand is only infinite dimensional. There are plenty of verses like this and regardless of the fact that things beyond time and space are logical impossibilities they exist so many times in other fictions, The Dark Tower, The Divergence, Lovecraft's mythos etc...
Lucifer: "Your existence is a lie, we live inside of comicbook pages and you're about to vanish out of existence" Beyonder: "... What?" Lucifer: "Exactly 😠" Beyonder: "Wait, what's happeni...-ng-..." *Beyonder ceas to exist*
@@abubakarbarry4930 Even the strongest version of the Beyonder cant win against Lúcifer, Lúcifer has the will of God, he can make the Beyonder kill himself...
I can destroy all existence easily. I could destroy all marvel with a tought. Marvel made me TOAA before TOAA was mentioned. Lol, Lucifer isn't in that level
DillPickletheman - Gaming & More so is Lucifer............... Again I can't believe I have to repeat this fucking fact but LUCIFER GOT HIS ASS FOOLED BY CONSTANTINE SO FUCK OFF
El Diablo oh my god DanCo even stated that... Look up his video on Dr. Strange vs Constantine or better yet search up the comic because I forgot the title
couple of things to note the beyonder actually allowed Doctor Doom to believe that there was some big struggle between them but in truth he gave the power to Doom in order to see what he would do with it. and enjoyed manipulating him through the form of klaw to reclaim the power rather than just outright taking it back, as far as getting drunk ect. While he did have omniscience he wanted to physically experience a lot of these Sensations because in his reality he was all that was, nothing was above him, he was curious about this concept desire and so-called good and evil hence the reason he destroyed several galaxies and created one Super world for the so-called Heroes to fight the so-called villains. but in the end it's all up to the writers.
Exactly!!!’ You said it better then me beyonder is a god that wants to understand man so what does he do get a 3 dimensional body and turn off his omnipotent omniscient omnipresent power every now and then so he can EXPERIENCE being a men what do we humans have desire curiosity lust envy happiness joy sadness depression anxiety etc the beyonder wanted to experience all these emotions and feelings so yes he did get drunk because us humans do that abs our true feelings come out this is what the beyonder wanted to do smh people ridiculously downplay and say all these flaws is what makes the beyonder weak but the whole premise of the beyonder is a God becoming man so he purposely made himself ridiculously weak turn off his OP powers so he can become a HUMAN smh people man
@@thebeyonderisop6637 and it was because of that desire for mortality that the molecule man was able to so easily seize the opportunity and destroy his physical body ( baby form ) and sheathe his vast energies back to his home universe .
Agreed yes Pre-Retcon Beyonder erases, in beyond realm beyonder is omniscient take this fight to there lucifer would be no longer omniscient cause he doenst know this place in DC if Lucifer tends to fight Beyonder hand to hand he loses also. If its like a meet and lucifer needs to beat him he will in DC universe he will trick him but if Beyonder realizes its his enemy there is no way for Lucifer winning even tho if its DC universe IMO. I do think that Presence should be Beyonder's rival not his angels. In Beyond Realm Beyonder wins, in DC Presence wins due to knowledge otherwise they both omnipotent and omnipresent. Actually Beyonder could be more powerful than Presence cause he is literally Jim Shooter and his realm was billion times bigger than Marvel i mean DC is almost same with Marvel, Beyonder's realm is vastly much bigger therefore Beyonder's omnipotence in Beyond Realm should be higher than Presence's omnipotence in DC. Now if we talk about the fight it varies on the place, if we talk about power its ofc should be Beyonder like i said, his realm is big enough to cover entire DC Marvel and more. Also isn't he Jim Shooter in comic who represents God&Narrator of Marvel Like TOAA essentially?
Lucifer Morning Star wins ....... Lucifer only loses to the one above all. Beyonder is no push over but he going against the negative. God & Lucifer are the balance of the universe.
Dude no Pre Retcon Beyonder was TOAA before he was even a thing and millions times more powerful than the Marvel Multiverse...He's more powerful than Lucifer...
Molecule Man dude when a character gets retconed it’s basically the writers saying “this character always existed we just had to make him first” so by what marvel wants us to believe he was never TOAA the current TOAA is the one and only thats what marvel says that is their god they clearly want it in our head with how many times they repeat it he is unbeatable unmatched unrivaled by any being in their comics end of story stop looking back on the past and using feats to suggest otherwise it came straight from them and if you want to rely on comics so bad TLT who well knows who the beyonder is already said TOAA is unmatched that includes the beyonder whatever omnipotency the beyonder had was scrapped so just forget about it idk what the beyonder is classified as right now all i know is its above cosmic and below divine and omnipotent which Lucifer is divine
Your explanations are a bit off, and down grading Lucifer a bit, but I over all agree that Lucifer would win. Also, just putting it out there that Lucifer Morningstar is Nigh-Omnipotent and Nigh-Omniscient it's part of his power set as one of the First Angels to be created. It's canon that the only being in the DC universe that is stronger than Lucifer is God. Lucifer didn't just create the multiverse he shaped the DC universe as it is now ( with Michael having the power to create matter out of nothing and Lucifer being able to create anything out of matter ). But pure power isn't what makes this fight; in fact I don't think Lucifer would use much of his power at all. He's much more like Constantine or Loki when it comes to fights and will trick his way into winning most of his battles but he has the power to back it up if he has too. I'd suggest reading the Lucifer comics, they are a good read, I've really enjoyed them.
The wiki says they are equal and I believe that it was stated in the comics they were equal as well but I can't recall which comic it's been a while since I read them. If there is a difference between them it's in fighting style. Lucifer is far more cunning, but Michael beats him in brute strength. The 'Demiurgic power' it pure creation, pure energy, But Michael can't create anything out of it only Lucifer can. "Michael's power is known to only be matched by his brother Lucifer and surpassed only by God." -- Wiki
I'm just telling you what the wiki says and what I remember from reading the comics. I never said Michael went easy on Lucifer. Cause I'm sure they didn't go easy on eachother, they are equal. But Michael was able to defeat Lucifer with the Demiurgic power, but Michael was so badly wounded after the fight that he was captured by a lower ranking fallen angel and forced to make nephilims, and he stayed captured for thousands and thousands of years, It took Lucifer saving Michael to free him. Out of the fight Lucifer got out of of it more or less unscathed and then God gavel Lucifer rule of Hell.
@@thepresence5041 I don’t think u understand how death works in DC, it isn’t like Marvel where death is just one being, death in the DC Universe is a concept even if u destroy one variation of death another one will take her place, and in order for Lucifer to not exist he will also have to kill God which is also impossible because he will just simply remake himself.
@@halogalaxy5612 lucifer died when his name got erased in the book of destiny. He’s not above death or even destiny while Beyonder is. PR Beyonder a piece of his power in a cup was able to kill death.
If it was Tom Ellis, Lucifer will be dead already xD He's too dumb and weak (More like a puppy Lucifer) while Lucifer from the comic is way too smart and so powerful ! (Even without power is powerful .. no joke)
I just started reading the 2000 Lucifer comic, I started taking interest in the Devil ever since the show came on Fox. They really nerf the hell out of Lucifer in that show
Yup. But TV shows and movies can never portray what books and comics perceived. But he is still nerfed from infinite multiverse level power to Earth level. Such a disappointment.
@@zeus-odinchiefs6737 well not really, in an arc in the sandman(if i remember correctly) lucifer didn't have his extraversal powers and was stripped to basically earth level, we can see this in the show as lucifer restraining his own powers to that point so that he isn't a part of God's plans anymore. But yeah, they nerfed him as HELL
They nerf him..or just the god himself will appear before lucifer and kicks his ass in front of all of the tv show fans..and that will be the end of him xD again.
I hated that show, it was so bad and I used to live in the Sandman and Lucifer comics and I even used to have a man crush on Samael, godamn man I know everything about him and seeing such a toned down and pussy shit version of him that just used his powers to solve gay arse crimes and not even leaving the Multiverse or the platforms of Extra Dimensions at all, and especially the Endless, I loved them and they weren't even in there. The show got so much wrong and didn't do anything.
@@CerealExperimentsMizuki not every show is going to be comic accurate, and if it were, the CGI would be overused and so crappy. I guess a touch of realism?
@@CerealExperimentsMizuki Agreed. That show is not a good take on the character at all, they Smallvilled it. A Lucifer series should have been on HBO with a high budget like game of thrones or a movie series.
How Lucifer can win this one? Beyonder is created inside creation. Meaning he can't manipulate beings that is outside of existence like Lucifer and warp him into something. Lucifer has omniscience and the Will of God. Beyonder doesn't. Will of God gives you infinite amount of intimidation. He can trick Beyonder to delete himself out from existence because Lucifer doesn't want to get his hands dirty. Well he can also use Beyonder as his own personal weapon if he feels like it, especially the new Beyonder who obeys even to a mortal.
this is talking about pre retcon not post retcon beyonder. also Lucifer doesn't have the will of God. That's Specter Unbown. Pre retcon beyonder was the one above all before the one above all. also it has never been confirmed if lucifer does have Omniscience. Its only been implied that he MIGHT have nigh omniscience. Also the beyonder isn't a fucking dumbass, why do people portray the Beyonder as a dumbass, its annoying
dude lucifer isnt powerless in some dimensions like god Parthenon or house of widow it just he wanted to be mortal their and doesn't have his wings at that point at all. Once he gained his wings he shatter the entire dimension with his mere presence i guess you haven't read the lucifer series completely com on you need to correct this. Like beyonder he can kill death also and on top of that without any sideeffects lol even death of the endless stated that herself.
@@kingcrimson1467 Beyonder dismissed an attack that could blow several billiom dimensions, shaped creation of the multiverse so he could fit in and raped Molecule Man who was easily multiversal, Lucy a better match for the Living Tribunal even then hed still lose because Tribunal receives his commands from God himself. marvel's cosmic hierachy is insane
XChristmasManX Lucifer was unfazed by the creation of a multiverse ( it was directly said to be a multiverse), he also took blows from the Dunamis Demiurogos which can destroy all creation ten times over. The DC cosmology is crazier it operates on Plato's Theory of forms, with the infinite dimensions existing as part of the First Form and the concepts which we see from our universe are only impressions of higher beings in the Second Form being unbound by dimensions, time and space. The Endless are part of the Second form, this is largely explained by the Imaginary Axises' video on The Endless, search Dc's seven dark gods we even see Dream of the Endless exit the multiverse and go beyond all space and time showing how he is a Second form being. The Third form is any "being" is completely unbound from any concept including those of the second form which was Plato's belief of what God was, anyone who is unbound from the concepts of the Second form can influence them without restraint creating paradoxes and logical impossibilities e.g. a square circle or lifting a rock so heavy they cannot lift that they created. In the Dc Cosmology this is the Presence and arguably the Overmonitor. The Presence is the one who empowers the Lucifer who is at least a second form being, he is exempt from the certain rules of the Endless and beyond them in power, he has used sigils that kept Death away from his ravens, from her endless embrace, Death has admitted that she has no hold over him and Dream has admitted he is far, far weaker than Lucifer (also saying that he is possibly second to The Presence). The Beyonder is part of the first form, if he was part of the second form he wouldn't be finitely more powerful than infinite dimensional beings and he has admitted that he is only infinite dimensional "it felt odd expressing himself in only 3 dimensions when before he had infinite" (it went something like that). So in conclusion, Lucifer>>>>>>>The Beyonder.
You are dead wrong about beyonder being more powerful, Lucifer has killed three different omnipotent beings, 2 demons that stole the power of the presence as well as the presence himself
The only time I saw him beat the presence is when he had the sword and it was confirmed it was only the sword that beat him but yeah, lucifer is really powerful
Just because you’re more powerful on paper doesn’t necessarily mean you win...plenty of times in real life and fiction there have been instances where a person, team or character was much more skilled or powerful than their opponent but somehow defeated them and not always by a slim margin. On paper favorites get beat all the time and a lot of the time the main factors are intellect(game plan) and/or heart/will both of which Lucifer has in spades over the beyonder so to me this is a battle of intellect vs sheer power and it ain’t as clean cut as y’all are trying to make it. I know the beyonder has the power to defeat luci but luci also has the intellect to defeat beyonder. Also, luci would be a fool to match up in a head to head physical battle with beyonder and he knows it. Luci would scheme and plot like he always does when he does meet the beyonder it would be on his terms under his conditions with plans on top of plans meanwhile beyonder likely to underestimate luci or overestimate himself imo. That being said this battle reminds me of Ali vs Foreman Rumble in the Jungle. I love beyonder but I think luci is entirely too intelligent for beyonder.
All Skill No Luck If he knows every scenario of existence, then how did Dr. Doom deceive him and manage to get his power?Because he can’t, the Beyonder is Omnipotent but not Omniscience.If you don’t know what Omniscience means, it’s the state of knowing everything.Go read some comics first, before you say something completely wrong.
@@starbustergaming5651 Honestly, I would say Lucifer because he's intelligent, he is almost as powerful as TOAA/Presence and he's a better looking character by alot. (Btw, I'm a fan of both, so no, I don't hate Beyonder)
Lucifer beats Post Retcon Beyonder. Pre-Retcon Beyonder gives him a beatdown thats on par with how badly Demifiend from Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne would beat Batman
@@Toddles it could go either way. If lucifer manages to beat beyonder it'll likely be to outsmarting him and if beyonder beats Lucifer it'll likely be to overpowering him
This is a good matchup. Lucifer Morningstar and Pre Recton Beyonder are each the 2nd most powerful beings, after TOAA and the presence (i know i know, there is a character even higher than the presence known as the writer, but the writer is so transcendental that it is hard to even include him)
Bitch Lucifer is beyond comics, he exists outside of comics and he can actually manipulate writers cause he has manipulated his own father the god and DC writers are the God's of DC Omniverse and Lucifer can just erase beyonder out of existence
@@LuckyVarma11 lmao your argument is valid on DC writers only, not on marvel writers. You know why beyonder is called so, because he's from the *beyond* . He's not inside the Omniverse. Even if Lucifer has created the whole DC multiverse, beyonder is beyond his scope. Stop smoking crack
Lucifer coughed a little. Shaggy absorbed the power of that cough, then he proceeded to beat the shit out of the Marvel Universe. Lucifer: It works all the time.
@@Enskyed the devil in marvel were talking the devil in DC and just because he is in the beyond realm he isn't the real God like the presence or one above all
@@sebtheweb43 Then don't use that argument as if it holds any weight. ''the beyond realm he isn't the real God like the presence or one above all'' He is omnipotent in his own realm. His realm exists outside of Marvel. static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142536/3988631-3344492-marvel%2Bage%2Binterview.jpg static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142536/3988654-3344482-beyond-realm.jpg static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142536/3988974-3344670-ff%2B288.jpg static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142536/3988979-3344685-millions%2Bof%2Btimes%2Bmore%2Bpowerful%2Bthan%2Beveryone.jpg static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11130/111308723/6707847-5286516703-rSZqT.png
The beyonder scales well above lucifer and the presence but he loses cause he is like a child,but if he wanted to he cole just blink lucifer out of Existence,the battle really depends on how the beyonder is feeling
Damien Dingus just because you believe that the devil is real doesn’t mean he is,some people think he’s fake so are they wrong?,and just to make it clear im not saying your wrong im just saying that you cant state something as a fact without any proof,which you don’t have
Did you miss the whole video? Beyonder is omnipotent which means there is no one more powerful than him, you cannot go further than omnipotence. Lucifer doesn`t stand a chance if Beyonder wants to kill him but that won`t happen, even with his omnipotence, he`s not very smart and thinks there is no one who can oppose him so he will treat Lucifer as a regular guy and that will be his downfall. Lucifer can`t do anything to Beyonder other than manipulate him. DanCo got it right this time, Beyonder can literally squash Lucifer but he will get played by Lucifer every time and end up losing.
I think if you possess curiosity, you can't be omnipotent. If your powers can be stolen from you without you being able to predict it or prevent it, you can't be omnipotent.
The beyonder is literally stated to be omniscient by Peter Parker and the beyonder started himself to “omniscient usually” I feel like people forget that the beyonder purposely depower and turns off some of his omnipotent and omniscient abilities so he can experience humanity the most natural way possible beyonder even stated he needs to stop using his power so when people say oh Lucifer can make himself die with his omniscient that’s if the beyonder has his omniscient turned off during the fight Yea the beyonder curious about humanity! Yes the beyonder did traverse the infinite marvel verse but that’s because he was in it. We are talking about a fight 1 on 1 in a neutral space with these 2 meeting each other and then fighting you really believe me he beyonder is going to be curious when he is fighting Lucifer or worried about where he is no Yea if the beyonder turns off his omniscient while he is talking to Lucifer yes he may die that’s a big MAY because for 1 how is the beyonder goin to Kill himself if his literally omnipotent
Lucifer is greatest deciever. He never goes for combat, plus the pre retcon beyonder is dumb, the whole storyline made no sense, so he was retconed. Lucifer is nigh omnipotent
I am omnipotent because I was Marvel's first attempt to create TOAA. I could wipe all existence. I could wipe marvel with a tought. Every single thing I imagined turned out to be reality..
@@preretconbeyonder6090 but thats past now, justice should be served to beyonder and moleculeman. Power downgrade is stupid, should have been kept atleast the the level of LT.
If you were omnipotent,then how did you get retconned?Oh wait,you are not.You were just leagues above everyone in the entire marvel multiverse.But not omnipotent.
@@Insugod I let myself by tricked , ask that to the writer. I was the most powerful being in al marvel, I was marvel s fist attempt to be a TOAA, I could wipe multiverses just by thinking of them. I could have ended all existence if I wanted. Maybe I am not 100% omnipotent, but its debatable
+Pre Retcon Beyonder you should ask that to the Lucifer writer and what he actually stated for Lucifer lmao thesatanicscholar.com/2016/01/19/why-vertigos-lucifer-morningstar-matters-pt-4-of-4/
I think even without convincing him Lucifer could still win in a physical fight. This is what I mean. While the beyonder has unlimited power, Lucifer has unlimited ability to warp that power into absolutely anything. So the second the beyonder unleashes his power in whatever means he does it, whether it be an energy blast or even an attempt to send lucifer to one of those realms you mentioned, Lucifer can access the energy behind the power that is being used and transform it into anything he wishes, like a puppy, or something else that's completely harmless. Or he can even go further and turn the Beyonder's attack against him to where the Beyonder would be attacking himself
And that is exactly it. If it exists, it can and will be manipulated by the best in the biz. And something tells me if lucifer wanted the power of the beyonder, he would have it. That wouldn't be any fun for him though
I don't think you understand how omnipotence works. If Beyonder doesn't want to die, then he isn't going to die. It doesn't matter how much power or effort Morningstar puts into his attacks on Beyonder; they won't kill him. An omnipotent being can't be killed except by itself. Beyonder even stated that he can't be killed except by his consent. Doom stole his powers because he wanted his powers stolen. He enjoyed messing with the established order in order to discover how the Marvel multiverse worked. I mean, Molecule Man, the guy that was easily more powerful than all the abstracts including the Living Tribunal, said that Beyonder transacts on levels that are unimaginable to him. Beyonder is equal to TOAA. Hell, Marvel had to fire several employees and then retcon the character because he was interfering with TOAA. Lucifer Morningstar should be up against the Living Tribunal as they're both omniverse threats.
@Supernaturally American Honestly, there's no point in arguing with you because you don't have a clue what the fuck you're talking about. The Living Tribunal is omniversal. There's only one Living Tribunal. The Living Tribunal is scared of Beyonder and begged Molecule Man to stop him. Owen Reece himself stated that Beyonder transacts on levels that are unimaginable to him. The creator of Secret Wars, Jim Shooter said that Beyonder was supposed to be the god before genesis, and that the Marvel multiverse was a drop in an ocean that was the Beyond realm. The idea that Beyonder is just multiversal is laughable. With the exception of other omnipotents, there likely isn't another character in *fiction* that is as powerful as Beyonder. It's why he's often banned in versus battles because the answer is always "beyonder wins."
The Beyonder wins. He has more feats than Lucifer. He beat the Celestials, he is 1,000,000 times more powerful than the multiverse, he beat Molecule Man, destroyed something that was made to destroy him, he beat the New Mutants, Avengers, and X-Men, survived something that could've destroyed billions of demensions, beat Galactus, created his own universe, remade all of exsistence, and most of all: killed the Living Tribunal
Lucifer win neg dff lucifer have 100 mil times than whole comic lucifer kill 2 omnipotent omnipresence and omniscience beings lucifer kill dark presence which powerful as. Presence and presence=toaa Lucifer creat his own multivers which bigger and powerful than original dc multivers lucifer win lucifer have a lot feats I can't say in her lucifer survived overvoid and overvoid >Marvel
@@f4k3gamer "And he is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation" (Colossians 1:15) it also goes on to say about how timeless he is and how he created ALL THINGS in heaven and earth so i guess i was wrong in a sense, he isn't he little bro, he's his little bitch son.
Thanos army vs Darkseid army True Darkseid vs IG Thanos Spectre vs Classic Dr Fate(Spectre isn't at full power) Celestials vs Horde Great Evil Beast vs Fulcrum
Demonbane vs. Cathone Current Molecule Man vs. The Voice Living Tribunal vs. First Firmament Protege vs. Cosmic Armor Superman Mandrakk vs Pre Retcon Beyonder
Doesn't matter what beyonder we talk about lucifer is just beyond existence he literally went where nothing exists Lucifer made a universe in not talking about like the multi verse he made a universe outside of the creators control
Pre rect my ass Lucifer is beyond comics while beyonder cease to exist only in comics so Lucifer wins only the TOAA is a tough fight but still Lucifer can manage his our of that too
Didn't Lucifer get his powers back in the last issue of the new Lucifer series? The one written by Holly Black.And Lucifer killed The Presence in that series. Even after The Presence gave Lucifer his powers back. Just a thought.
Didn't you say you were using Pre retcon Beyonder. Cause I could a swore that was thenpne that dief as baby. Where's all these new panels comim from then? Point of note also. Disco Beyonder didn't have full control over his powers. But you're right anyway. Their meeting meeting basically like this. Hey, man I'm the Beyonder, the baddest dude this side of anywhere. Yes. And I am Lucifer Morningstar. What is it you desire?
it is true that beyonder is much powerful, but this is a situation where more powerful doesn't necessarily wins. if the beyonder doesn't kill lucifer in an instant and gives lucifer time, lucifer would edge over beyonder. lucifer has used manipulation every time to outsmart any of his opponents regardless of power successfully. hence he is omniscient i.e, he can't lose if he is omniscience and if he losses he is no more omniscient
Beyonder, who has already transcended LT who is outerversal, and lucifer is outerversal via feats as well, while bringing the parts when Cosmic entities and LT shitted their pants when he first encountered beyonder. Beyonder ftw
For me beyonder wins why? Because if ya'll didnt know beyonder is the god before there was a genesis for a long long time before marvel exists.He even read the writer's mind aka TOAA and said everything he wishes to know will soon be apparent to all and later messed the editor himself thats plot manipulation this proves that he's beyond even TOAA
MorningStar Jonathan Not the same. In TV, he just a mentalist, he as no power, he's dumb & weak. Pretty sure, Vertigo's Lucifer would have burn Chloe just to not be manipulated by his dad. After all she has been created by his dad so..
The way I see it, is that while he can can outsmart the Beyonder, he let Doom have his power, so he would maybe initially get outsmarted but as he is outright power, and above Michael IMO; he should overpower Lucifer.
Lucifer can win by completely making the beyonder into not the beyonder Lucifer can change any and all matter into something else. He can change the beyonder into nothing but oxygen atoms
Something always makes my mind to feel like beyonder is a lot more powerful than Lucifer. Even though I haven’t read any DC comics as I’m not a big fan still I believe beyonder wins against him.
The Beyonder is completely omnipotent. Jim Shooter and Stan Lee clearly stated that he was The One Above All before there was one. In fact he is more powerful than Marvel's TOAA because he's TOAA for a place much much larger than the Marvel multiverse. The only way Lucifier wins is by having Beyonder spare his life through trickery. But thats it. He can not kill or defeat Beyonder.
The Dude Omniscience > Omnipotence, Brains > Brawns If Dr Doom can outsmart the Beyonder, then Lucifer can beat him no problem.Since Lucifer knows everything, he would know how to beat him or manipulate him.I don’t know why people call Pre-Retcon Beyonder TOAA, when he is only Omnipotent and Omnipresent.TOAA is all of those but is Omniscient as well.
@@youtubeuser8483 intellect and manipulation aizen has outsmarted and manipulated everyone even when he was sealed up he continues to plan forward shit he planned Ichigos entire life he somehow created the equivalent of the heart of the universe which is the hogyoku (will of the universe) thus allowing him to break the boundaries between soul reaper and hollow shit he even made himself immortal he's just beyond everyone. Gin a secret agent tried to learn all he could from aizen but he was just to careful tool him years just to learn one secret that if u touch aizens sword u lose the hipnosis The only reason aizen lost to Ichigo was cuz of his own mentality after the battle aizen begins to realize this power he will obtain will make everything boring he started to second guess himself for every action till the hogyoku didn't recognize him at all
@@insatiablehunger2138 Yeah but aizen isn't evil.... he wanted to destroy soul king because he wasn't doing anything for his people which means aizen kinda cared about people of soul society
@@youtubeuser8483 he's still a vilian he's killed countless soul reapers to obtain his goal the method he used was messed up it's funny tho seems like hikone can do what he pleases to become soul king while aizen had to fight through everyone to do so
Lucifer will never fall to anyone. It's done. There's NO ONE other than God. The closes would be his brother. But he's the most powerful and most badass period. Hands down. Hate me.
Lucifer's weaknesses Beyonder doesn't have: he does have certain limitations as he is still a creation of God; chiefly, he cannot create something out of nothing, unlike his Creator or brother. In some ways, this makes him the most disadvantaged, though not the weakest, of the higher angelic host. He needs existing matter (and where that is unavailable, the Demiurgic power of the Archangel Michael or that of God Himself) to provide the foundation for him to shape. In certain dimensions for reasons unknown, he is powerless and his mobility is limited without his wings. He is also not unbeatable as Basanos was able to kill him with probability manipulation.
Dr. Manhattan: "Power", "Powerful", "Strong", is all energy, in short is matter. Manhattan controls matter, sees all possibilities, lives outside time, sees all paths, can not die. Comics are confusing.
Lucifer and micahael cannot die and Michael isn't dead he was absorbed by ellaine plus even death of the endless admitted he can kill her without any side effect so saying beyonder is stronger than Lucifer is wrong. You need to correct that if you want scan I can provide.
Well Beyonder is more powerful to destroy, while Lucifer is more Powerful to make. I think It will be draw because of Lucifer's intelligence, but if it's just straight up fighting I think Beyonder takes this one
@@imransutar7448 u right...if Odin use his full powers + full powers of Odinforce , they can call Young justice and teen titans and that will still not be enough to beat him
Is that why everytime strange and literally everyone else tried that they couldn't manage a thing? Stop taking single panels out of their narrative context. The only way you could beat the Beyonder is if he allows you to, it's that simple
@@IGLESIANIMANALO1914 Yes and was later beaten by the same person, because he only absorbed a millionth of his power. There is no such a thing as ''dick riding your own character''. Beyonder is simply curious, but he still is nigh omniscient.
I'm sorry but when you said Lucifer wasn't omnipotent you're totally wrong about that just saying the beyonder is a living organism that is just considered omnipotent due to his range of power why Lucifer is a immortal being and omnipotent. And he is not tied with his brother Marco Lucifer is the second most powerful being in the DC universe and brother 3rd.
@@platinumvoid1648 I'm sorry when I meant up omnipotent for Lucifer's what I mean is Lucifer is 90% of omnipotent or very close to it even the presents stated that in the presence it's God.
I thing Lucifer would win. Not because of his omniscience only, but because as long as he is in creation or has matter near him, he can warp it on an omnipotent level, so that, paired with his omniscience, would be more than enough to defeat the beyonder
🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Beyonder can do all of that lol
@@HeFrom23rd Anything beyonder could do, lucifer could do better.
@@mobarenleidowu1336 are u being biased
@@zechariah2092 no because even if beyonder can do the same he can’t do the same with the same thought since Lucifer is the IQ in that battle
beyonder is Infinite dimensional while Lucifer beyond Dimensions
lucifer wins bruhh...
Jace OverHeaven the word infinite dimensional has been used "infinite" as a statement, theres nothing beyond infinity.. The only things that beyonds infinite dimensional is omniversal which contains all imagination, expectations, questions, infinitiesimals.
god I love drugs. Don't you?
Pre retcon beyonder was so powerful that they had to retcon him and then introduced GOD to try and make him seem much more beatable
Emodeath 02 The beyond infinite dimensional thing was based the understanding of the Judeo Christian god, basically ancient Catholics and philosophers believe God to be spaceless and timeless, in other words beyond infinite dimensional. According to Plato's Theory of forms there are three levels to reality, the first is physical reality, which in the DC/Vertigo universe contains infinite dimensions, the second is beyond physical and into the conceptual. Basically it is believed anything in the first world only exists as a shadow of something in the Second world; that all things came to those there in the second level of reality as one. For example, the idea of cats could act as object, person or thing in the second world, a personification of cats, this extends to all things, life, death, space, time etc... In the DC universe this is found in the Endless. We see that the Endless are truly spaceless and timeless entities, the first incarnation of a Dream was literally the dream of the Eldritch monsters below and beyond space and all of the Endless are children of Night who exists in the untime beyond all event horizons, death also existed in Lucifer's multiverse. And the third level is God, who is unbound from such concepts of death, unreality, time, cause, effect etc... I'm not saying this is the way our reality works but from my experience this is how the DC cosmology seems to be ordered, with The Presence acting as God, the Endless are the Higher concepts and all reality fits underneath. Lucifer is on a level with the Endless with Dream admitting Lucifer is far, far more powerful than he is and Death being unable to kill Lucifer's ravens. The Beyonder on the other hand is only infinite dimensional. There are plenty of verses like this and regardless of the fact that things beyond time and space are logical impossibilities they exist so many times in other fictions, The Dark Tower, The Divergence, Lovecraft's mythos etc...
Christian McCarthy Darkseid>Marvel
Lucifer: "Your existence is a lie, we live inside of comicbook pages and you're about to vanish out of existence"
Beyonder: "... What?"
Lucifer: "Exactly 😠"
Beyonder: "Wait, what's happeni...-ng-..."
*Beyonder ceas to exist*
Lmao
I don’t think that’s how it works
Cease?
@@LISAWILKINSON100 He's saying lucifer is smart enough to assess his mental state like that. Realize things.
Sees?? You aren’t serious, are you?
Bro Lucifer shaped the DC multiverse, Lucifer has the morningstar power. There is no way he can lose.
RODRIGO FILHO you know that if he wanted to the beyonder could just destroy the marvel multiverse right?
@@abubakarbarry4930 Even the strongest version of the Beyonder cant win against Lúcifer, Lúcifer has the will of God, he can make the Beyonder kill himself...
RODRIGO FILHO the beyond error is essentially god you know...
RODRIGO FILHO are u dumb beyonder is 1000 times stronger then all of marvel tf
Beyonder was known as marvel's god before one above all showed up
I agree with this. Lucifer Morningstar is just to smart and manipulative for the Beyonder.
I can destroy all existence easily. I could destroy all marvel with a tought. Marvel made me TOAA before TOAA was mentioned. Lol, Lucifer isn't in that level
DillPickletheman - Gaming & More so is Lucifer............... Again I can't believe I have to repeat this fucking fact but LUCIFER GOT HIS ASS FOOLED BY CONSTANTINE SO FUCK OFF
@@42ndblaze43 Constantine never fooled Lucifer, what are you talking about!?
42nd Blaze When. And if so. THE BEYONDER IS AN IDIOT COMPARED TO LUCIFER.
El Diablo oh my god DanCo even stated that... Look up his video on Dr. Strange vs Constantine or better yet search up the comic because I forgot the title
I'm basically fighting a powerful child.
Lucifer Morningstar but you better
I agree with you on that.
Easy win. The beyonder would easily lose, he's just too damn gullible.
Lucifer Morningstar
But dangerous.
@@thorshammer7883 but not dangerous enough
Never thought I'd say this but Lucifer wins.
@k.ithelena Why are you writing each word in capital first letter, dumbass?
@k.ithelena hey can u help me
@k.ithelena He was omnipotent. You cant beat that and you're using poor logic to excuse away his power. Nothing beats him plain and simple.
@k.ithelena and please come with any argument so I can debunk it
linky2552 he’s not omnipotent if he couldn’t brink back death smh
couple of things to note the beyonder actually allowed Doctor Doom to believe that there was some big struggle between them but in truth he gave the power to Doom in order to see what he would do with it. and enjoyed manipulating him through the form of klaw to reclaim the power rather than just outright taking it back, as far as getting drunk ect. While he did have omniscience he wanted to physically experience a lot of these Sensations because in his reality he was all that was, nothing was above him, he was curious about this concept desire and so-called good and evil hence the reason he destroyed several galaxies and created one Super world for the so-called Heroes to fight the so-called villains.
but in the end it's all up to the writers.
Exactly!!!’ You said it better then me beyonder is a god that wants to understand man so what does he do get a 3 dimensional body and turn off his omnipotent omniscient omnipresent power every now and then so he can EXPERIENCE being a men what do we humans have desire curiosity lust envy happiness joy sadness depression anxiety etc the beyonder wanted to experience all these emotions and feelings so yes he did get drunk because us humans do that abs our true feelings come out this is what the beyonder wanted to do smh people ridiculously downplay and say all these flaws is what makes the beyonder weak but the whole premise of the beyonder is a God becoming man so he purposely made himself ridiculously weak turn off his OP powers so he can become a HUMAN smh people man
@@thebeyonderisop6637 and it was because of that desire for mortality that the molecule man was able to so easily seize the opportunity and destroy his physical body ( baby form ) and sheathe his vast energies back to his home universe .
Agreed yes Pre-Retcon Beyonder erases, in beyond realm beyonder is omniscient take this fight to there lucifer would be no longer omniscient cause he doenst know this place in DC if Lucifer tends to fight Beyonder hand to hand he loses also. If its like a meet and lucifer needs to beat him he will in DC universe he will trick him but if Beyonder realizes its his enemy there is no way for Lucifer winning even tho if its DC universe IMO. I do think that Presence should be Beyonder's rival not his angels. In Beyond Realm Beyonder wins, in DC Presence wins due to knowledge otherwise they both omnipotent and omnipresent. Actually Beyonder could be more powerful than Presence cause he is literally Jim Shooter and his realm was billion times bigger than Marvel i mean DC is almost same with Marvel, Beyonder's realm is vastly much bigger therefore Beyonder's omnipotence in Beyond Realm should be higher than Presence's omnipotence in DC. Now if we talk about the fight it varies on the place, if we talk about power its ofc should be Beyonder like i said, his realm is big enough to cover entire DC Marvel and more. Also isn't he Jim Shooter in comic who represents God&Narrator of Marvel Like TOAA essentially?
Very well said
This is why he would lose, he would give his power to Lucifer just to "experience " defeat 😂 PR Beyonder has a mind of a child.
Lucifer Morning Star wins ....... Lucifer only loses to the one above all. Beyonder is no push over but he going against the negative. God & Lucifer are the balance of the universe.
Dude no Pre Retcon Beyonder was TOAA before he was even a thing and millions times more powerful than the Marvel Multiverse...He's more powerful than Lucifer...
Molecule Man dude when a character gets retconed it’s basically the writers saying “this character always existed we just had to make him first” so by what marvel wants us to believe he was never TOAA the current TOAA is the one and only thats what marvel says that is their god they clearly want it in our head with how many times they repeat it he is unbeatable unmatched unrivaled by any being in their comics end of story stop looking back on the past and using feats to suggest otherwise it came straight from them and if you want to rely on comics so bad TLT who well knows who the beyonder is already said TOAA is unmatched that includes the beyonder whatever omnipotency the beyonder had was scrapped so just forget about it idk what the beyonder is classified as right now all i know is its above cosmic and below divine and omnipotent which Lucifer is divine
Lucifer Morning Star is immortal....... Remember Doctor Doom stole the Beyonder Powers. 🙄😲😲😲😲😉
There is stronger beings than the beyonder. They would easily Beat lucifer.
Sorry dud you have it wrong, in DC it's Micheal and Lucifer that are the balance of each other and they are still under The Presence.
Bruce Wayne vs batman
@@spidey3922 I think he's joking....
Nope, Peter Parker vs spiderman is better
That is a dumb question if you don't know superheroes secrets identity is like saying Steve Rogers vs captain America
Nah Robert Reynolds vs Sentry is better....
Martha
Your explanations are a bit off, and down grading Lucifer a bit, but I over all agree that Lucifer would win. Also, just putting it out there that Lucifer Morningstar is Nigh-Omnipotent and Nigh-Omniscient it's part of his power set as one of the First Angels to be created. It's canon that the only being in the DC universe that is stronger than Lucifer is God. Lucifer didn't just create the multiverse he shaped the DC universe as it is now ( with Michael having the power to create matter out of nothing and Lucifer being able to create anything out of matter ). But pure power isn't what makes this fight; in fact I don't think Lucifer would use much of his power at all. He's much more like Constantine or Loki when it comes to fights and will trick his way into winning most of his battles but he has the power to back it up if he has too. I'd suggest reading the Lucifer comics, they are a good read, I've really enjoyed them.
Michael is above Lucifer
The wiki says they are equal and I believe that it was stated in the comics they were equal as well but I can't recall which comic it's been a while since I read them. If there is a difference between them it's in fighting style. Lucifer is far more cunning, but Michael beats him in brute strength. The 'Demiurgic power' it pure creation, pure energy, But Michael can't create anything out of it only Lucifer can.
"Michael's power is known to only be matched by his brother Lucifer and surpassed only by God." -- Wiki
@@tytoz9034 They're not equal. If Michael didn't go easy on Lucifer, he would've killed him during his rebellion.
I'm just telling you what the wiki says and what I remember from reading the comics. I never said Michael went easy on Lucifer. Cause I'm sure they didn't go easy on eachother, they are equal. But Michael was able to defeat Lucifer with the Demiurgic power, but Michael was so badly wounded after the fight that he was captured by a lower ranking fallen angel and forced to make nephilims, and he stayed captured for thousands and thousands of years, It took Lucifer saving Michael to free him. Out of the fight Lucifer got out of of it more or less unscathed and then God gavel Lucifer rule of Hell.
Lucifer is the first Angel
Well, If The Detective Is there he Loses 😂
"Im bleeding."
See what u did there hahaha
Or not sense he could "kill" him easly still
Hero Hazz Pretty sure, Vertigo's Lucifer would have killed her just to not be manipulated by his dad in the first place.
@@thedamned7096 I guess he is talking bouy netflix lucifer( they frieking nerfed him more than thanos)
Lucifer can’t die, death can’t claim him. Literally, he would just will himself back
Beyonder can destroy death itself
Beyonder can make it as if Lucifer never existed to begin with
@@thepresence5041 I don’t think u understand how death works in DC, it isn’t like Marvel where death is just one being, death in the DC Universe is a concept even if u destroy one variation of death another one will take her place, and in order for Lucifer to not exist he will also have to kill God which is also impossible because he will just simply remake himself.
@@halogalaxy5612 lucifer died when his name got erased in the book of destiny. He’s not above death or even destiny while Beyonder is. PR Beyonder a piece of his power in a cup was able to kill death.
@@kekfromkekistan3057 Lucifer came back tho, he died for a like a solid minute
lucifer: detectiveeeE
beyonder: dies
Yeah when your mother is a virgin
@@raziyariha8323 well your going to hell
Beyonder wins
@@dcbeyonderyt111 Are you real
OMG I'm literally blasting!!!!!!! (!)
Tom Ellis wins.... Everytime.
+1
@@fafnirthedragon2992 but hes freaking devil 🙄
Lucifer convinced Tom Ellis to play him in a Tv show.
just got to keep chloe away
If it was Tom Ellis, Lucifer will be dead already xD He's too dumb and weak (More like a puppy Lucifer) while Lucifer from the comic is way too smart and so powerful ! (Even without power is powerful .. no joke)
I just started reading the 2000 Lucifer comic, I started taking interest in the Devil ever since the show came on Fox. They really nerf the hell out of Lucifer in that show
Yup. But TV shows and movies can never portray what books and comics perceived. But he is still nerfed from infinite multiverse level power to Earth level. Such a disappointment.
@@zeus-odinchiefs6737 well not really, in an arc in the sandman(if i remember correctly) lucifer didn't have his extraversal powers and was stripped to basically earth level, we can see this in the show as lucifer restraining his own powers to that point so that he isn't a part of God's plans anymore. But yeah, they nerfed him as HELL
What do you mean. The Netflix Lucifer didnt even care about the anti monitor killing and eating the multiverse so he is probably multiversal
They nerf him..or just the god himself will appear before lucifer and kicks his ass in front of all of the tv show fans..and that will be the end of him xD again.
Severely but there's only so much you can portray onscreen lol
But I guess your right. Lucifer doesn't need to fight. He could easily mess up the Beyonder with his words alone.
BS
Beyonder(base) + verse just by blinking
Yh when beyonder is in his human form... Beyonder has only been outsmarted in his physical form
I legit just found out Lucifer has his own series i thought he was talking about the Netflix show
Deadly Assassin9 Netflix revived the show
I hated that show, it was so bad and I used to live in the Sandman and Lucifer comics and I even used to have a man crush on Samael, godamn man I know everything about him and seeing such a toned down and pussy shit version of him that just used his powers to solve gay arse crimes and not even leaving the Multiverse or the platforms of Extra Dimensions at all, and especially the Endless, I loved them and they weren't even in there.
The show got so much wrong and didn't do anything.
@@CerealExperimentsMizuki not every show is going to be comic accurate, and if it were, the CGI would be overused and so crappy.
I guess a touch of realism?
@@CerealExperimentsMizuki Agreed. That show is not a good take on the character at all, they Smallvilled it. A Lucifer series should have been on HBO with a high budget like game of thrones or a movie series.
@@CerealExperimentsMizuki they dont have a big enough budget for all that
How Lucifer can win this one? Beyonder is created inside creation. Meaning he can't manipulate beings that is outside of existence like Lucifer and warp him into something. Lucifer has omniscience and the Will of God. Beyonder doesn't. Will of God gives you infinite amount of intimidation. He can trick Beyonder to delete himself out from existence because Lucifer doesn't want to get his hands dirty. Well he can also use Beyonder as his own personal weapon if he feels like it, especially the new Beyonder who obeys even to a mortal.
this is talking about pre retcon not post retcon beyonder. also Lucifer doesn't have the will of God. That's Specter Unbown. Pre retcon beyonder was the one above all before the one above all. also it has never been confirmed if lucifer does have Omniscience. Its only been implied that he MIGHT have nigh omniscience. Also the beyonder isn't a fucking dumbass, why do people portray the Beyonder as a dumbass, its annoying
he does brother he does please read well next time
Girl, learn your grammar.
@@johnnyblack3454 I agree, I don't think they really understand the difference between the PR Classic Beyonder and the post retcon.
He explained it. Watch the video again if you're confused.................
dude lucifer isnt powerless in some dimensions like god Parthenon or house of widow it just he wanted to be mortal their and doesn't have his wings at that point at all. Once he gained his wings he shatter the entire dimension with his mere presence i guess you haven't read the lucifer series completely com on you need to correct this. Like beyonder he can kill death also and on top of that without any sideeffects lol even death of the endless stated that herself.
stfu beep
@@josephgassner1800 He's right
Joseph Gassner He’s not exaggerating, he actually did destroy whole universes just by walking there, it was shown and confirmed multiple times
@@kingcrimson1467 Beyonder dismissed an attack that could blow several billiom dimensions, shaped creation of the multiverse so he could fit in and raped Molecule Man who was easily multiversal, Lucy a better match for the Living Tribunal even then hed still lose because Tribunal receives his commands from God himself. marvel's cosmic hierachy is insane
XChristmasManX Lucifer was unfazed by the creation of a multiverse ( it was directly said to be a multiverse), he also took blows from the Dunamis Demiurogos which can destroy all creation ten times over. The DC cosmology is crazier it operates on Plato's Theory of forms, with the infinite dimensions existing as part of the First Form and the concepts which we see from our universe are only impressions of higher beings in the Second Form being unbound by dimensions, time and space. The Endless are part of the Second form, this is largely explained by the Imaginary Axises' video on The Endless, search Dc's seven dark gods we even see Dream of the Endless exit the multiverse and go beyond all space and time showing how he is a Second form being. The Third form is any "being" is completely unbound from any concept including those of the second form which was Plato's belief of what God was, anyone who is unbound from the concepts of the Second form can influence them without restraint creating paradoxes and logical impossibilities e.g. a square circle or lifting a rock so heavy they cannot lift that they created. In the Dc Cosmology this is the Presence and arguably the Overmonitor. The Presence is the one who empowers the Lucifer who is at least a second form being, he is exempt from the certain rules of the Endless and beyond them in power, he has used sigils that kept Death away from his ravens, from her endless embrace, Death has admitted that she has no hold over him and Dream has admitted he is far, far weaker than Lucifer (also saying that he is possibly second to The Presence). The Beyonder is part of the first form, if he was part of the second form he wouldn't be finitely more powerful than infinite dimensional beings and he has admitted that he is only infinite dimensional "it felt odd expressing himself in only 3 dimensions when before he had infinite" (it went something like that). So in conclusion, Lucifer>>>>>>>The Beyonder.
Boy, people really get worked up over fictitious fights. It's all for fun, guys.
Actually people have been doing that for many years. They even go to wars for it and commit genocides.
yussuq madiq
Uhh that doesn't happen.
Lol,fuck that,this shit gets real,cause danco or what ever the fuck his name is,be down playing marvel
@@mrtru2023 IT IS FICTION U FUCKING BABY IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH REAL LIFE AND IT DOESN'T AFFECT U AT ALL , stop crying and grow up
He was talking about religious ideologies which is considered fiction by others.
You are dead wrong about beyonder being more powerful, Lucifer has killed three different omnipotent beings, 2 demons that stole the power of the presence as well as the presence himself
The only time I saw him beat the presence is when he had the sword and it was confirmed it was only the sword that beat him but yeah, lucifer is really powerful
Omnipotent people can’t be beaten.
how did the presence get beaten the presence is no 1 and lucifer is just no 2
@@brothsipper-h5o Yes dude, that's logic
@@brothsipper-h5o Lucifer is nigh omnipotent and how can nigh omnipotent beat omnipotent
It doesn't make sense??????
Morningstar would probably make Beyonder his pet and turn him to his side
Actualy beonder is omnipresent omnipotent
And knows a lot but not omniscient !!
The player Yt Regien beyond EE is neither omnipotent or omnipresent
His power doesn't work in marvel universe
Marlito World yes he is bruh he is totaly beond godfinity !!
Anurag Games So Neither does beyonders in DC ...
Beyonder suit looks like it's going to eat him up 😂😂
Just imagine lucifer and john Constantine having a talk.
Imran Iqbal watch Constantine the movie
They passed by each other in Lucy's bar, nothing happened except for looking at each other
Lucifer 2018
Imran well your wish came true 😂 When John asked a favor from Lucifer in Crisis on Infinite Earths
@@ronjeremiah1038 constantine’s plot armour would annihilate him by merely looking at him
Lucifer = Naruto
Talk No Jutsu
Lucifer wins
👏👏
Lucifer wiuld b btw the most powerful being in the anime.. Cause they talk way more than they fight.... I believe he can make Zeno kill himself
Manas Prabhanshdeep Singh
Zeno can erase anyone or anything😂 i am a Lucifer fan and dragon ball but... No one can beat zeno🐦.
@@YOUZANSEN dude i was just joking about how much they talk in anime... And that's all Luci needs
@@YOUZANSEN which Lucifer the comics one or the the baby Lucifer (tv series)
Just because you’re more powerful on paper doesn’t necessarily mean you win...plenty of times in real life and fiction there have been instances where a person, team or character was much more skilled or powerful than their opponent but somehow defeated them and not always by a slim margin.
On paper favorites get beat all the time and a lot of the time the main factors are intellect(game plan) and/or heart/will both of which Lucifer has in spades over the beyonder so to me this is a battle of intellect vs sheer power and it ain’t as clean cut as y’all are trying to make it.
I know the beyonder has the power to defeat luci but luci also has the intellect to defeat beyonder.
Also, luci would be a fool to match up in a head to head physical battle with beyonder and he knows it. Luci would scheme and plot like he always does when he does meet the beyonder it would be on his terms under his conditions with plans on top of plans meanwhile beyonder likely to underestimate luci or overestimate himself imo.
That being said this battle reminds me of Ali vs Foreman Rumble in the Jungle.
I love beyonder but I think luci is entirely too intelligent for beyonder.
This is the best. Thank you kind sir for these words. Someone who understands luci is to good for beyonder😭 praise the Lord
doubleshot helix it’s funny cuz 95% of people really think just because u got god like powers GG
doubleshot helix this is like a HxH fight
All Skill No Luck If he knows every scenario of existence, then how did Dr. Doom deceive him and manage to get his power?Because he can’t, the Beyonder is Omnipotent but not Omniscience.If you don’t know what Omniscience means, it’s the state of knowing everything.Go read some comics first, before you say something completely wrong.
Fyi, The Beyonder is technically made of the ideals of the Endless, despite his power. Lucifer Morningstar is NOT affected by the Endless, ez claps.
When beyonder die where he go..haha meet lucifer at hell or go to heaven..
if he go heaven then he meet Michael.
@Troy Gonzalez beyonder doesn't have soul
If Beyonder goes to hell, he'll meet Lucifer, but if he goes to heaven, he'll meet Michael
Beyonder wins
@@starbustergaming5651 Honestly, I would say Lucifer because he's intelligent, he is almost as powerful as TOAA/Presence and he's a better looking character by alot. (Btw, I'm a fan of both, so no, I don't hate Beyonder)
Lucifer beats Post Retcon Beyonder. Pre-Retcon Beyonder gives him a beatdown thats on par with how badly Demifiend from Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne would beat Batman
WeaponXSigma hi
Pre-retcon beyonder, I'm placing him = Micheal, who lost to Lucifer
@@freddypedraza2066 well you're an idiot.
Elizabeth Mckinven Fr
@@Toddles it could go either way. If lucifer manages to beat beyonder it'll likely be to outsmarting him and if beyonder beats Lucifer it'll likely be to overpowering him
danco: "lucifer never lies."
real lucifer: "that's a lie."
This is a good matchup. Lucifer Morningstar and Pre Recton Beyonder are each the 2nd most powerful beings, after TOAA and the presence (i know i know, there is a character even higher than the presence known as the writer, but the writer is so transcendental that it is hard to even include him)
1st. The Presence
2nd. Elaine Belloc
3rd. The Great Evil Beast
4th. Michael Demiurgos
5th. Lucifer Morningstar
@@breezycramheartz3066 Lucifer is prob above michael
@@johnthegamerman404 Lucifer lost to Michael
@@breezycramheartz3066 but michael was killed by lucifer once too
@@breezycramheartz3066 Lucifer has been confirmed to be the great evil beast. I can't remember where thought
Different comics,different rules, different power scale
Lucifer still wins
@@thenamelessking7873 i told you it's different in many ways, you can compare but you can't decide
@@AhmadSaifudin116 yes you can? People compare characters from different universes all the time so yes you can it's called scaling....
@@thenamelessking7873 just compare, not decide
Come on lucifer wins😂😂😂
Isn’t Lucifer immortal
mohammed bangura Immortal things also can be killed shown by the Chaos King from Marvel Comics...
Lucifer was said to be absolutely immortal to the highest level possible for characters below the Presence and only the Presence could destroy him
@@professorchannel6359 presence and Michael no one else and luci killed both
Morningstar not Presence dude
mohammed bangura only on earth hell and heaven
This video blew my mind.
Also can you do Moon Knight vs Azrael (Michael Lane)?
Doom didnt steal his power, the Beyonder let him think he stole his power to simulate good versus evil.
Saizen FINALLY, someone understands
Non-jobbing re-retcon Beyonder wins. He was the Presence/TOAA of his universe.
Otherwise, Lucy outsmarts any other incarnation of the Beyonder.
In the comments section, 70% say Lucifer while 30% say Beyonder
The only reason Marvel depowered Beyonder was because of TOAA
Bitch Lucifer is beyond comics, he exists outside of comics and he can actually manipulate writers cause he has manipulated his own father the god and DC writers are the God's of DC Omniverse and Lucifer can just erase beyonder out of existence
@@LuckyVarma11 beyonder shit stomps him quit smoking crack bro
@@LuckyVarma11 lmao your argument is valid on DC writers only, not on marvel writers. You know why beyonder is called so, because he's from the *beyond* . He's not inside the Omniverse. Even if Lucifer has created the whole DC multiverse, beyonder is beyond his scope. Stop smoking crack
@@nitishkalita1026 lucifer deletes beyonder from existence stop with cap and read comics
Next do Lucifer VS Mastered Ultra Instinct Shaggy
Shaggy is above Thanos with all of its gadgets including hotu so..... shaggy > lucifer
Shaggy is basically the brother of God
Lucifer coughed a little. Shaggy absorbed the power of that cough, then he proceeded to beat the shit out of the Marvel Universe.
Lucifer: It works all the time.
TOAA : creates Infinite bigbangs
Shaggy : *Wasted*
Kraven the Hunter vs Blade
Daredevil vs Captain America
Moon Knight vs Nick Fury (Classic)
Ikaris vs Black Bolt
Kraven Maybe
Captain America
Nick Fury will come out on top
IDK
Blade
Cap
MK
Idk
Good fights, how about deadshot vs comedian, ghost rider vs dr fate and hyperion vs geo force?
@@alecg.5638 Dr Fate would crap on Ghost Rider it's not even close imo
Lucifer wins simply because he's modelled after David fucking bowie all that needs to be said.
Lucifer is the devil enough said
That doesn’t necessarily mean anything
@@anythingatall7670 pretty sure beyonder is not God or an angel so basically it does mean something
@@sebtheweb43 That is completely irrelevant. Beyonder is God in the Beyond Realm and he beat Mephisto (the devil in Marvel) many times.
@@Enskyed the devil in marvel were talking the devil in DC and just because he is in the beyond realm he isn't the real God like the presence or one above all
@@sebtheweb43
Then don't use that argument as if it holds any weight.
''the beyond realm he isn't the real God like the presence or one above all''
He is omnipotent in his own realm. His realm exists outside of Marvel.
static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142536/3988631-3344492-marvel%2Bage%2Binterview.jpg
static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142536/3988654-3344482-beyond-realm.jpg
static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142536/3988974-3344670-ff%2B288.jpg
static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142536/3988979-3344685-millions%2Bof%2Btimes%2Bmore%2Bpowerful%2Bthan%2Beveryone.jpg
static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11130/111308723/6707847-5286516703-rSZqT.png
Lucifer has god as his dad and hes the devil himself like hes obviously gonna win tff
The beyonder scales well above lucifer and the presence but he loses cause he is like a child,but if he wanted to he cole just blink lucifer out of Existence,the battle really depends on how the beyonder is feeling
Damien Dingus your implying that the devil is real but there is no proof that he is,so i could also say that the devil is a fictional character 🥱
Damien Dingus now your implying god is real and you still have no proof,”god” could also be fictional to buddy,
Damien Dingus just because you believe that the devil is real doesn’t mean he is,some people think he’s fake so are they wrong?,and just to make it clear im not saying your wrong im just saying that you cant state something as a fact without any proof,which you don’t have
Damien Dingus ight bro,now you just preaching at this point 😂,
Lucifer is above the Omniverse as well as Michael. Bro he’s an infinite amount of times more powerful than Beyonder 🤣
Did you miss the whole video? Beyonder is omnipotent which means there is no one more powerful than him, you cannot go further than omnipotence. Lucifer doesn`t stand a chance if Beyonder wants to kill him but that won`t happen, even with his omnipotence, he`s not very smart and thinks there is no one who can oppose him so he will treat Lucifer as a regular guy and that will be his downfall. Lucifer can`t do anything to Beyonder other than manipulate him. DanCo got it right this time, Beyonder can literally squash Lucifer but he will get played by Lucifer every time and end up losing.
@@yatharth7703 I agree Lucifer Morningstar would lose to Michael Jackson aka Beyonder
@@alinnistor7871 Beyonder isn't omnipotent Toaa is omnipotent and there can only be one omnipotent in a universe.
@@Crow-nc1oo Yeah, he`s more likely nigh-omnipotent, but pre retcon WAS omnipotent.
Use your brain a hole beyonder more powerful then him
Don’t forgot that Lucifer literally left creation itself to live out his days in peace
“Detectiveeeeee”
I think if you possess curiosity, you can't be omnipotent. If your powers can be stolen from you without you being able to predict it or prevent it, you can't be omnipotent.
Fax
Age and treachery will beat
Youth and Enthusiasm every time
but put them in the ring and ..well
The beyonder is literally stated to be omniscient by Peter Parker and the beyonder started himself to “omniscient usually” I feel like people forget that the beyonder purposely depower and turns off some of his omnipotent and omniscient abilities so he can experience humanity the most natural way possible beyonder even stated he needs to stop using his power so when people say oh Lucifer can make himself die with his omniscient that’s if the beyonder has his omniscient turned off during the fight
Yea the beyonder curious about humanity! Yes the beyonder did traverse the infinite marvel verse but that’s because he was in it. We are talking about a fight 1 on 1 in a neutral space with these 2 meeting each other and then fighting you really believe me he beyonder is going to be curious when he is fighting Lucifer or worried about where he is no
Yea if the beyonder turns off his omniscient while he is talking to Lucifer yes he may die that’s a big MAY because for 1 how is the beyonder goin to Kill himself if his literally omnipotent
True
Nice one keep em coming
Lucifer is greatest deciever. He never goes for combat, plus the pre retcon beyonder is dumb, the whole storyline made no sense, so he was retconed. Lucifer is nigh omnipotent
I am omnipotent because I was Marvel's first attempt to create TOAA. I could wipe all existence. I could wipe marvel with a tought. Every single thing I imagined turned out to be reality..
@@preretconbeyonder6090 but thats past now, justice should be served to beyonder and moleculeman. Power downgrade is stupid, should have been kept atleast the the level of LT.
If you were omnipotent,then how did you get retconned?Oh wait,you are not.You were just leagues above everyone in the entire marvel multiverse.But not omnipotent.
@@Insugod I let myself by tricked , ask that to the writer. I was the most powerful being in al marvel, I was marvel s fist attempt to be a TOAA, I could wipe multiverses just by thinking of them. I could have ended all existence if I wanted. Maybe I am not 100% omnipotent, but its debatable
+Pre Retcon Beyonder you should ask that to the Lucifer writer and what he actually stated for Lucifer lmao
thesatanicscholar.com/2016/01/19/why-vertigos-lucifer-morningstar-matters-pt-4-of-4/
I think even without convincing him Lucifer could still win in a physical fight. This is what I mean. While the beyonder has unlimited power, Lucifer has unlimited ability to warp that power into absolutely anything. So the second the beyonder unleashes his power in whatever means he does it, whether it be an energy blast or even an attempt to send lucifer to one of those realms you mentioned, Lucifer can access the energy behind the power that is being used and transform it into anything he wishes, like a puppy, or something else that's completely harmless. Or he can even go further and turn the Beyonder's attack against him to where the Beyonder would be attacking himself
This is basically exactly what he did with Michael to create the DC Universe
im. not really sure but. maybe ur right
but u know what Lucy has will of god
basically he can create a army. of beyonders in his favour
Remember Lucifer cant create something out of nothing
And that is exactly it. If it exists, it can and will be manipulated by the best in the biz. And something tells me if lucifer wanted the power of the beyonder, he would have it. That wouldn't be any fun for him though
nO MICHEAL CREATES SOMETHING FROM nothing not lucifer beyonder is basically lucifer and micheal combined
Not gonna lie, I feel like both characters are just tied xD
I don't think you understand how omnipotence works. If Beyonder doesn't want to die, then he isn't going to die. It doesn't matter how much power or effort Morningstar puts into his attacks on Beyonder; they won't kill him. An omnipotent being can't be killed except by itself. Beyonder even stated that he can't be killed except by his consent. Doom stole his powers because he wanted his powers stolen. He enjoyed messing with the established order in order to discover how the Marvel multiverse worked.
I mean, Molecule Man, the guy that was easily more powerful than all the abstracts including the Living Tribunal, said that Beyonder transacts on levels that are unimaginable to him.
Beyonder is equal to TOAA. Hell, Marvel had to fire several employees and then retcon the character because he was interfering with TOAA.
Lucifer Morningstar should be up against the Living Tribunal as they're both omniverse threats.
@Supernaturally American Honestly, there's no point in arguing with you because you don't have a clue what the fuck you're talking about.
The Living Tribunal is omniversal. There's only one Living Tribunal. The Living Tribunal is scared of Beyonder and begged Molecule Man to stop him. Owen Reece himself stated that Beyonder transacts on levels that are unimaginable to him. The creator of Secret Wars, Jim Shooter said that Beyonder was supposed to be the god before genesis, and that the Marvel multiverse was a drop in an ocean that was the Beyond realm.
The idea that Beyonder is just multiversal is laughable. With the exception of other omnipotents, there likely isn't another character in *fiction* that is as powerful as Beyonder. It's why he's often banned in versus battles because the answer is always "beyonder wins."
The Beyonder wins. He has more feats than Lucifer. He beat the Celestials, he is 1,000,000 times more powerful than the multiverse, he beat Molecule Man, destroyed something that was made to destroy him, he beat the New Mutants, Avengers, and X-Men, survived something that could've destroyed billions of demensions, beat Galactus, created his own universe, remade all of exsistence, and most of all: killed the Living Tribunal
Lucifer win neg dff lucifer have 100 mil times than whole comic lucifer kill 2 omnipotent omnipresence and omniscience beings lucifer kill dark presence which powerful as. Presence and presence=toaa
Lucifer creat his own multivers which bigger and powerful than original dc multivers lucifer win lucifer have a lot feats I can't say in her lucifer survived overvoid and overvoid >Marvel
I don't think you've read enough lucifer comics....
And beyonder
I wonder who else saw the headline and headed straight for the comment section
Literally Jesus' little bro Vs the world's biggest shoulder pads man.
Big bro. Also I don't think Jesus is there in DC Comics
@@f4k3gamer little bro. Jesus is meant to be god's first creation. And I'm not going off DC comics here I only follow official canon. The Bible. 😂
@@6jackace who said that Jesus was the first creation? Can u point out the verse
@@6jackace secondly a book written 3000years ago with no backing is as canon as DC Comics is real
@@f4k3gamer "And he is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation" (Colossians 1:15) it also goes on to say about how timeless he is and how he created ALL THINGS in heaven and earth so i guess i was wrong in a sense, he isn't he little bro, he's his little bitch son.
Thanos army vs Darkseid army
True Darkseid vs IG Thanos
Spectre vs Classic Dr Fate(Spectre isn't at full power)
Celestials vs Horde
Great Evil Beast vs Fulcrum
Thanos army
True Darkseid
Spectre
Horde
i would say Fulcrum
Darkseid army stomps
True darkseid
Spectre
Horde
Great evil beast
IDK
True Darkseid
Spectre
IDK
Fulcrum
Osvaldo Jacobaco feats for true darksied ??
@@Johnconstantine3777 his presence was collapsing the multiverse which is why he uses avatars, he also raided heaven and is a multiversal level threat
Demonbane vs. Cathone
Current Molecule Man vs. The Voice
Living Tribunal vs. First Firmament
Protege vs. Cosmic Armor Superman
Mandrakk vs Pre Retcon Beyonder
Demonbane
leaning towards the voice
Stalemate
Stalemate
Beyonder
Demonbane
Me
Stalemate
Stalemate
Pre Retcon Beyonder
How it going oblivion...
Molecule Man everything is going smooth this way, how are you? Been in any fights lately?
@@trueformoblivion3518 nah chilling in my Quesi Reality playing with my Omniverse in a box...
Well thought out analyze. Good Video.
X-Force vs CyberForce
New Mutants vs Teen Titans
4 Robins vs G-Force
Dr Light vs Spectrum
Pre-retcon Beyonder would decimate Lucifer. The post retcon version would lose however
Doesn't matter what beyonder we talk about lucifer is just beyond existence he literally went where nothing exists Lucifer made a universe in not talking about like the multi verse he made a universe outside of the creators control
Pre rect my ass Lucifer is beyond comics while beyonder cease to exist only in comics so Lucifer wins only the TOAA is a tough fight but still Lucifer can manage his our of that too
Doesn't matter what version of the beyonder you're talking about... lucifer would destroy him every time
Matthew Mcgarry Bruh Pre retcon destroyed the multiverses of toaa
Matthew Mcgarry also turned toaa's omniversal in a drop of water
Didn't Lucifer get his powers back in the last issue of the new Lucifer series? The one written by Holly Black.And Lucifer killed The Presence in that series. Even after The Presence gave Lucifer his powers back. Just a thought.
Didn't you say you were using Pre retcon Beyonder. Cause I could a swore that was thenpne that dief as baby. Where's all these new panels comim from then? Point of note also. Disco Beyonder didn't have full control over his powers. But you're right anyway.
Their meeting meeting basically like this. Hey, man I'm the Beyonder, the baddest dude this side of anywhere.
Yes. And I am Lucifer Morningstar. What is it you desire?
it is true that beyonder is much powerful, but this is a situation where more powerful doesn't necessarily wins. if the beyonder doesn't kill lucifer in an instant and gives lucifer time, lucifer would edge over beyonder. lucifer has used manipulation every time to outsmart any of his opponents regardless of power successfully. hence he is omniscient i.e, he can't lose if he is omniscience and if he losses he is no more omniscient
Biased asf@drybackwoods2960
pre retcon beyonder is dumb, and the current beyonder isnt as powerful so lucifer wins both times
Morningstar every time!
Beyonder, who has already transcended LT who is outerversal, and lucifer is outerversal via feats as well, while bringing the parts when Cosmic entities and LT shitted their pants when he first encountered beyonder. Beyonder ftw
That old living tribunal the new one is powerful as hell
lal piang yea I was referring the ‘old’ him
For me beyonder wins why?
Because if ya'll didnt know beyonder is the god before there was a genesis for a long long time before marvel exists.He even read the writer's mind aka TOAA and said everything he wishes to know will soon be apparent to all and later messed the editor himself thats plot manipulation this proves that he's beyond even TOAA
@@heiseigojifan2713 even the writers themselves whose more powerful than toaa they said that beyonder is beyond them so whats your point?
Lucifer win of course because the detective is not there
Haha
See what u did there hahahhaha
@@daisukep9gi thank
MorningStar Jonathan Not the same.
In TV, he just a mentalist, he as no power, he's dumb & weak.
Pretty sure, Vertigo's Lucifer would have burn Chloe just to not be manipulated by his dad.
After all she has been created by his dad so..
@@thedamned7096 r/woooosh
Bottom line is Lucifer exist in real world while the beyonder is fictional.
There you have it the answer we need!!!
😒 what do you know about Beyonder
The way I see it, is that while he can can outsmart the Beyonder, he let Doom have his power, so he would maybe initially get outsmarted but as he is outright power, and above Michael IMO; he should overpower Lucifer.
Lucifer can win by completely making the beyonder into not the beyonder Lucifer can change any and all matter into something else. He can change the beyonder into nothing but oxygen atoms
Lux Arkangel Beyonder did more greater than these
@@yoonchingleo8 Like what?
Yeah lux you don't know shit about the beyonder do you.not being rude but obiviuosly you're are DC fan.
Big mismatch a better one would be living tribunal or molecule vs Lucifer and Michael I honestly think pr will laugh at lucifers power
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Something always makes my mind to feel like beyonder is a lot more powerful than Lucifer. Even though I haven’t read any DC comics as I’m not a big fan still I believe beyonder wins against him.
How can Lucifer win when the beyonder can't even kill himself
The Beyonder is completely omnipotent. Jim Shooter and Stan Lee clearly stated that he was The One Above All before there was one. In fact he is more powerful than Marvel's TOAA because he's TOAA for a place much much larger than the Marvel multiverse. The only way Lucifier wins is by having Beyonder spare his life through trickery. But thats it. He can not kill or defeat Beyonder.
Man your voice is something. You should speak more clearly. I couldn't understand half of the video.
Manan Tantia man your comment is something. You should comment more clearly I couldn’t understand half of it smh.
Lucifer : I have the will of God
Beyonder : I am God
The Dude Omniscience > Omnipotence, Brains > Brawns
If Dr Doom can outsmart the Beyonder, then Lucifer can beat him no problem.Since Lucifer knows everything, he would know how to beat him or manipulate him.I don’t know why people call Pre-Retcon Beyonder TOAA, when he is only Omnipotent and Omnipresent.TOAA is all of those but is Omniscient as well.
@@iliketacos886 exactly
lucifer can do everything the beyonder can expect create something from nothing, Lucifer is infinitely more intelligent, beyonder kills himself
Batwoman vs Black Widow
Daredevil vs Dr Mid-Nite or Talon
Nightwing vs Stormshadow
Typhoid Mary vs Deathstroke
Batgirl vs Silver Sable
black widow
idk
idk
deathstroke
batgirl
Deathstroke
(sorry, I answered the others already)
How bout deadshot vs comedian, ghost rider vs dr fate and hyperion vs geo force?
Black Widow
Daredevil (stomp against talon)
Nightwing I guess but I only know stormshadow from the movies
Deathstroke
Batgirl
IConic _19 I think Deathstroke's gear puts him above Comedian. Dr. Fate over GR and IDK on the last one
@@royparks4265 deathstroke? I said deadshot
Finally you're back! I'm going with Lucifer. He's a warrior and much smarter
You can't be smarter than an omniscient being
@@The-Beyonder lucifer is true omniscience
@@LUCIFERSONOFGOD my statement still stands. They'd stalemate at best
So Lucifer is just like aizen 😂
tf how?
@@youtubeuser8483 intellect and manipulation aizen has outsmarted and manipulated everyone even when he was sealed up he continues to plan forward shit he planned Ichigos entire life he somehow created the equivalent of the heart of the universe which is the hogyoku (will of the universe) thus allowing him to break the boundaries between soul reaper and hollow shit he even made himself immortal he's just beyond everyone.
Gin a secret agent tried to learn all he could from aizen but he was just to careful tool him years just to learn one secret that if u touch aizens sword u lose the hipnosis
The only reason aizen lost to Ichigo was cuz of his own mentality after the battle aizen begins to realize this power he will obtain will make everything boring he started to second guess himself for every action till the hogyoku didn't recognize him at all
@@insatiablehunger2138 Yeah but aizen isn't evil.... he wanted to destroy soul king because he wasn't doing anything for his people which means aizen kinda cared about people of soul society
@@youtubeuser8483 he's still a vilian he's killed countless soul reapers to obtain his goal the method he used was messed up it's funny tho seems like hikone can do what he pleases to become soul king while aizen had to fight through everyone to do so
@@insatiablehunger2138 He still cares for people tho
Lucifer will never fall to anyone. It's done. There's NO ONE other than God. The closes would be his brother. But he's the most powerful and most badass period. Hands down. Hate me.
your bias
Beyonder Winner💪💪💪💪😎 And Powerful💪💪💪😎😎😎😎👍👍👍👍 😁
എനിക്ക് തോന്നുന്നില്ല
@@lonely527 enukum
Lucifer's weaknesses Beyonder doesn't have: he does have certain limitations as he is still a creation of God; chiefly, he cannot create something out of nothing, unlike his Creator or brother. In some ways, this makes him the most disadvantaged, though not the weakest, of the higher angelic host. He needs existing matter (and where that is unavailable, the Demiurgic power of the Archangel Michael or that of God Himself) to provide the foundation for him to shape. In certain dimensions for reasons unknown, he is powerless and his mobility is limited without his wings. He is also not unbeatable as Basanos was able to kill him with probability manipulation.
Lucifer actually can create matter he did make his own universe as part of one of the universes in the mutiverse
The most powerful is (Gods) The one above all and the presence, these are the creator of all creation, the multiverse and everything
Lucifer morningstar flew off the comic book page cuz he wanted to🤯 that feat speaks for itself
The Beyonder and shoulder pads another 80s creation that just can't be beat! 80s just like the Beyonder are eternal and the best!
wanna know who's more powerful than The Presence and The One Above All?
The Writer.
Toaa and presence are the writers
Dr. Manhattan: "Power", "Powerful", "Strong", is all energy, in short is matter. Manhattan controls matter, sees all possibilities, lives outside time, sees all paths, can not die. Comics are confusing.
Dr. Manhattan.
The fact most of these comment saying beyonder power is lower than lucifer is totally wrong . They both literally outerversal .
Smart and great comment
And here you are being wrong. PR Beyonder is all powerful, Lucy is infinitely lower
Lucifer and micahael cannot die and Michael isn't dead he was absorbed by ellaine plus even death of the endless admitted he can kill her without any side effect so saying beyonder is stronger than Lucifer is wrong. You need to correct that if you want scan I can provide.
dude u joking right
@@Toddles he's right
Immanuel Classified very right
Well Beyonder is more powerful to destroy, while Lucifer is more Powerful to make.
I think It will be draw because of Lucifer's intelligence, but if it's just straight up fighting I think Beyonder takes this one
Lucifer has more power than beyonder definitely, lucifer destroyed an infinite number of infinite multiverses with his mere presence alone
Lucifer vs John Constantine
John is in no way shape or form comparable to Lucy. He was utterly destroyed by dr manhattan
What type of fuck shit question is this Lucifer Stomps
Nice battle
Odin vs Justice Leaque
Bor vs young Justice and teen Titans at the same time
Thor vs supergirl
Thor vs Ronan the Accuser
Justice league
Bor
Thor
Thor
@Aegon I'm A Marvel fan but I agree with you, Dr. Fate can defeat Odin
Too many dc fan are crying lol Odin will destroy justice league easily
@@joshuaandino stupid u r a dc fanboy kid not a marvel fanboy go know about Odin powers he will destroy justice league without using full power
@@imransutar7448 u right...if Odin use his full powers + full powers of Odinforce , they can call Young justice and teen titans and that will still not be enough to beat him
Okokokokok so Dr strange has the potential to trap and defeat the beyonder pre retcon whos truely omnipotent but not the Justice league EXPLAIN
Is that why everytime strange and literally everyone else tried that they couldn't manage a thing? Stop taking single panels out of their narrative context. The only way you could beat the Beyonder is if he allows you to, it's that simple
Honestly, that's kinda stupid, If the Avengers can beat him, why not members like Dr. Fate?
LUCIFER TAKE THIS ONE.. LUCI IS OMNISCIENT AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF BEYONDER
Stan Lee himself said the beyonder was God before genesis
@@pokemonoras3 so what... Jim Shooter dick ride is own Character.. remember Dr Doom outsmart WANKYONDER and ABSORBED THE POWER
@@IGLESIANIMANALO1914 Yes and was later beaten by the same person, because he only absorbed a millionth of his power.
There is no such a thing as ''dick riding your own character''.
Beyonder is simply curious, but he still is nigh omniscient.
Thanos what do you desire ? To die . Wish granted .
I'm sorry but when you said Lucifer wasn't omnipotent you're totally wrong about that just saying the beyonder is a living organism that is just considered omnipotent due to his range of power why Lucifer is a immortal being and omnipotent. And he is not tied with his brother Marco Lucifer is the second most powerful being in the DC universe and brother 3rd.
There can only be one omnipotent character in each Omniverse, and Lucifer isn't the most powerful in D.C.
@@platinumvoid1648 I'm sorry when I meant up omnipotent for Lucifer's what I mean is Lucifer is 90% of omnipotent or very close to it even the presents stated that in the presence it's God.
@@platinumvoid1648 and he's the second most powerful character in the DC universe even the Creator said he was.
@@kelodingard9983 Yes, so he's "Nigh-Omnipotent".
@@kelodingard9983 i think he is omnipotent and presence isn't