Praise the Lord Brother. I was raised in the charismatic and the same thing was spouted in the churches I ran in. Don't watch/listen/do etc. I grew up bitter and confused especially after seeing people I looked up to have moral failures in the church. I got to a point that I got fed up with it and went atheist for a spell. A brother that left the church I was going to reached out to me and shared the Gospel with me through great teachers in the reformed theology camp and it blew my mind. Thank God He is faithful even though we are not.
All of the charismatics that I know seem to be the opposite of "no, no, no..." They are all driven purely by emotional experiences, and they seem to have little spiritual discernment on worldly things. Regardless, praise God that you (Holy Spirit's help of course) recognized your situation and were able to instead search for sound doctrine.
As a pastor myself, who also came out of the IFB, I can greatly relate to this. Thank you for posting this brother. It was a great encouragment for me to watch this. The youtube algorithm gets it right sometimes. 🙂
I grew up on the fringes of the IFB movement, but praise God my father, who was a preacher, fought against that whole legalistic system. So even when I attended a Christian school which leaned that way, I had the biblical grounding to understand that school rules were just school rules, not Bible doctrine. When we had IFB "evangelists" in to speak, I just ignored them when they got on their favorite "sin" that was extra-biblical. My father taught me to think biblically and make decisions according to biblical principles.
I was IFB , did youth summer camps at Jack Hyles church 1971-72, many friends went to Hyles Anderson college. I learned sin very well at them churches, as long as we had our haircut high and tight and we came to be counted. By 87 I gave up. My mom was very involved but after she died I had a box of tapes from John MacArthur from 82. Come 2018 I started listening to them. Now I am reformed. I was always asking about things in the bible and was told that when God was ready I would make me understand. Now that I am an old man I talk to friends from back then Only 1 of us has remained IFB. Sex and drugs were rampant in that church. Everybody was having affairs. IFB is also a numbers game. No time for growth for new christians, take a hand full of tracts and go to the park to fill the bus routes. Stay strong and enjoy God's blessing you are living.
John macrthurs church is down the street from me and I'll tel you right now that they're definetly not involved. They have ministries but you'll never be able to talk to the pastor or fellowship with him and it's a huge church lol.
Im no pastor, but I had a similar experience with growing up in the ifb culture and have talked with many people who had the same questions about bible passages that dont line up with their teaching and soul winning ministeries that get large numbers of professions but almost no faithful Christians as a result. It's encouraging to hear this articulated so well here.
Theocast has been a blessing to my faith. Thank you. I came from a charismatic background. I am still learning and your podcast is teaching me so much.
In 1980 i was expelled from Tennessee Temple University because of room inspections. It was sad and hard for me because my father had been one of the heroes of the movement. the year after that it came out the the dean of the school that expelled me had been in adultery with his secretary for a decade.
I'm a dependent fundamental Baptist, I depend on the grace of God to get me through each day. As for the ifb I don't see it as a "movement" at all. This isn't a come and go fad but a spiritual way of life. For those of you that believe that trying to live the Bible is legalism you probably need to review the meaning. The experience I've had is that some of the members of ifb churches seem to be shy about the friendships they cultivate. Legalism is a system of works based outcomes. Ifb isn't that at all. Maybe folk need to mow their grass before a harsh comment on someone else's yard. You do you and I do me and we can both be happy. God bless
The rules of the IFB he’s talking about - no movies - no pants for woman. No swimming- piano or organ backed music only . No drinking- it’s all no s that are not in scripture . People like me got so crushed by this spirit I left God and the church completely - crushed under the weight of the do nots
@@williamjarvis3473 we don’t try to live by the Bible, we live in obedience to God out of love for him. The Bible don’t teach that drinking is a sin nor that women have to wear floor length dresses to be modest. The IFB is full of man made rules, little understanding of the Bible and lack of Grace that Christ grants us.
@@OlgaSmirnova1 like I said in my comment, "you do you and I do me and we're both happy". I'm not going through my Christian life to make you or anyone else happy, 2nd Tim 2:15 KJV
I think the issue is one of conflating habit and holiness. IFB took a good desire: the wish to inculcate godly habits into disciples. And they turned it into a spirituality test. We are creatures who need routine. God made us this way. Godly habits are to be lauded. But they are not "requirements" to be saved, or even holy living. The flip side is, broader Evangelicalism is so afraid of appearing legalistic that we *don't* encourage spiritual disciplines. We don't talk about what it takes to cultivate a prayer life, or deep Bible reading, or regular repentance of the sins besetting us. And so we have a shallow Christendom that can't stand when the storms come. We need the disciplines. But we also need the grace not to judge our, or others, spirituality by how well we keep them.
Regular repentance of sins is not a Biblical doctrine. It’s taught by people today, but neither Jesus nor His disciples taught for us to promise God that we will never sin again! And that’s what repenting of sins is. It’s being sinless, which is not possible. The Gospel that we are saved by believing is found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
I was in the IFB for 16 years. They are super legalistic. They do not know what grace is. They have a list of "rules" they consider to be holy living. I thought if I kept the rules on the list, I was fine and that made me right before the Lord. They do not preach the true gospel of grace. They have a lot of prerequisites for a person to even to come to Christ. Sort of like "cleaning up your act" stuff. Women had to wear dresses/skirts and have long hair. Men had to wear button up dress shirts and have their hair cut above their ears. On and on with the focus on outward appearance. Couldn't own a TV or like Jon said, go to a movie. Couldn't have a sip of alcohol - one of the biggest sins of all. If you ever miss a church service they question where you were and why you weren't at church. And don't you dare look a a Bible translation that isn't KJV because the devil created those. They are super Arminian in doctrine - they hate the doctrines of grace. They have no expositional preaching at all. Just topical and take Scriptures out of context to fit whatever they want to preach. They do not tell people we are unable to walk in holiness apart from the Lord working in us. Almost all the preachers in it are unloving and super judgmental. If you are not IFB, they think you aren't even saved. It's very cultish. I thank God for getting me out of it. There's a great channel on YT called Preacher Boys that exposes the IFB. I encourage people to check it out.
@@Adam-gm5tm So we're not to pray in the pattern of the Lord's Prayer, which includes confession of sin? And no. I'm not saying be sinless. Nor am I saying we're saved by anything but believing. You did exactly what I say we often do. We conflate good habits with holiness. Consciously building positive habits is valuable. Because we are all going to have them, good or bad. That doesn't make it holiness. But it does make for a life that is more conducive to honoring God. Will we fall short? Yes. Am I encouraging pride or legalism? No. A tool is neither good nor bad. What we do with the tool is what makes it good or bad.
@@shawngillogly6873 Confession of sin is not the same as repenting of sins. 1 John 1:9 speaks about confessing or agreeing with God concerning our sins. Confessing sin is Biblical, repenting of sins is not.
This is refreshing to hear. I was raised in moralistic churches where people hid their sin to show an “I’ve got it together” outer image. This is incredibly destructive to a person’s spiritual growth, my own included. It stunts your growth and forces you into self loathing because you can never measure up to your own legalistic expectations. Grace is much bigger than that. It’s not just for salvation but also for daily sanctification. This message finally explains many of my questions, doubts and fears. I look forward to learning more. Thank you for this message.
Thanks, Jon, for sharing your testimony. It's really no different from being in the charismatic movement. We had the same demands and burdens put on us, eventually leading to disappointment and disillusionment. Thanks to God for setting us free out of it all!
I looked after some kids who ran from that To them it seemed to me the bible was all about the Christian and their performance Instead the bible is all about Jesus and his performance at Calvary It seems they have no idea of the sovereignty of God And so very much more
@@mollymuch2808 Yes exactly. It was all about their "testimony" A pastor who covered up his families sins under his roof, a daughter sleeping with a deacons grandson for months and denying covering up and lying. Everyone sins but transparency was not allowed it was a fake cover up. Then He knew God's will for others lives, Or what his "wife" wanted him to do. He was not a Shepard. He was not a real pastor he was a manipulator now he runs a Missions tour group taking money from people all over the US togo to Africa. To be able to heal and forgive has been a journey but our Lord is Sovereign and he has used that for good in our family in so so many ways, Praise God and pray for those deceived under wolves.
@@mollymuch2808 Sounds about right... its a very sad system that creates extreme judgmental attitudes with a cult like group settings. There are so many levels of control and everything he said about KJV is spot on.
@4:55 to @5:04 - I just within the past 3 years have had the same experience where when my Mom died, reality came upon me; Even though I’ve always believed in Jesus Christ, I’d strayed and wasn’t ‘in the Word’. Since then, I’ve come back to Jesus and found that Jesus never left me, even though I backslid from Him.
Thank you for sharing your journey - God has clearly gifted you to move genuine believers toward the great truths and joys of the gospel. I can relate in many ways with your path. ❤
I was in the same situation nearly 40 years ago, and it is amazing how similar these "coming out" stories are. I was not raised IFB but ended up at Hyles -Anderson, and through a combination of events and experiences now pastor an independent Reformed church.
Your story is similar to mine. The ironic thing is that I have three degrees from IFB schools. Midwestern Baptist College, Liberty University and Tennessee Temple. The last two schools were more academic and allowed for critical thinking. Back in the late eighties I discovered R.C. Sproul and reformed theology. I loved his scholarship and his grasp of church history and apologetics. Today at 71 I serve as the director of the men's ministry as a volunteer at a SBC church in South Carolina. Keep up the good work!
Good grief! My dear brother, I don’t know where to start. I received Christ as my savior when I was 37 years old. I am now 75 years old. During that time I have been a member of five independent fundamental King James, only Baptist churches. All of them were a little different and all of the pastors of course had some differences. Everyone of these pastors, we’re humble, caring and loving. I personally have never experienced any of the things that you have outlined as being unbiblical. The messages I have heard over these many years have all been very uplifting and encouraging. Grace was always preached. I have not heard a pastor, preach against long hair, tattoos or pants worn by women. I have seen all of these types of people in all of these churches, and they have been welcome with open arms. I’m sorry for your bad experiences and being so discouraged. That is a terrible way to live as a Christian. That being said, I pray for God‘s blessing upon you my dear brother and your congregation. Thank you for letting me ramble on.
A very good book by Gene Edwards, A Tale of Three Kings, helped me understand why God places us under spiritual leadership that seems flawed. Of course it’s a trial for our edification, but it really taught me to rely on God’s decisions for my life because He has a reason for everything. I learned so much solid Bible understanding while in an IFB church. I also learned to listen to the Holy Spirit when He directed me away from it. For me, I was learning from God that pleasing Him was not adherence to these rules of performance. I believe we please God by trusting and obeying Him, and seeking His will. God placed me there for a purpose and when I outgrew the teaching IFB could provide, He led me onward. It was my springboard into trusting God above all others and to discern God’s wisdom from man’s. I’m grateful. God is so good!
I was saved through the ministry of an independent Baptist church the preach salvation by grace through faith, but once in the church the does and don’ts and God won’t bless if you violate the lists. Family members including my wife still seem to be held in bondage to this kind of thinking. It’s a struggle, thanks for sharing your struggle.
The only do’s and don’ts are from God in His Word and He is the only one we are accountable to. We are free from the trappings of sin by the washing by the blood of Jesus. We live in joy, not judgment.
@@jimgiammarco6970With all due respect, I am certain that you have no idea of his particular church and experiences. How should you know what he endured? I attended an Independent Baptist sect here in Australia. It was woeful and they did add to Scripture many things that are unscriptural , whilst falsifying the majority of Christian Doctrines into a weird legalistic hybrid. I do agree that parts of the Gospel were occasionally to be found in that church. But the woeful mixing of Law and Gospel, the heavy handed "popish pastors" and the interfering in peoples marriages ..... Shall I go on? The worst parts for me were the ignorance of the historic faith, and the complete lack of knowledge of the Apostolic Rules of Exposition, along with the complete ignorance of the original languages of Scripture are just too much to stomach.... Enough said ...
Amen Brother. I pray for these IFB Churches near me I use to attend. Certain ones are so deceived by their own self righteousness. One man is so extreme he is hateful.
Must be nice. I grew up in sin and without sound doctrine. I appreciate the IFB because after coming from the world, to going through all types of churches, I finally after ten years I walked in to an IFB church. The bible way still works. 1 Cor 3:18
Yup. These kids trashing their upbringing and parents should be ashamed of themselves. Just adjust your beliefs. This guy didn't catch some things and it's IFB's fault? I think not.
@@Pr0teinShake Not sure if you're serious or not...but I'm not IFB. Still think the criticism has gotten silly. Too much bitterness behind the criticism. They just don't see it.
Stay with God's Word and you will grow in faith. Beware of these institutions infiltrated by Rome. Be a good Berean. Beware of popular preachers, authors, and others.
All do respect, pastor. I enjoyed listening to your talk. I am of Mexican descent. Grew up catholic. Accepted Yavashua in the seventies. Then moved to the desert and joined a fib church learned much . We moved out further so it was difficult to attend church. I missed church , but too far to attend . I asked my Elohim, what shall I do lord ? He said read the scriptures . Read , and begin at the beginning, genius! To revelation. So I obeyed . And what I have learned is so much of what I was never taught . And this is very sad , pastor ! I was never taught of the Torah the Tanaka! And etc , etc ! The entire Bible . From the beginning, Yavashua hamachi was there !!! Why Was I never taught ???? I know who I am in my el shaddai!!! Hallelujah! I am a child of the king . And not only do I have his blood running through my viens I am an Israeli. Yavashua was a Jew ! All the disciples were Jews . We gentiles were grafted to the main branch ! For instance, The word , Christ. The Roman’s who fought isreal and invaded there territory! The word , Christ came from them ! Why are we not taught the history of what happened?? I have learned so much . I know who I am in Yavashua hamachi, today . The Holy Spirit that lives and his presence is Always with me . I am Israeli. Not Mexican, not baptist , not catholic. I am Israeli, why? Because I have the blood of the lamb running through me . I am sealed and called by name by Elohim!!! Glory to el shaddai, all mighty G-D!
Thank you for your video! Explains and describes exactly what I'm going through with my brother, the anger, the judgemental attitude. He started going to this kind of church more than a year ago. After hearing the Pastor on a conservative radio station as a guest caller, for tearing up a document during the pandemic. Nightmare ever since. Can't have a reasonable, calm discussion with him, share different views. He's always pushing the church's beliefs on others. Everything you said of your experience is on point! Yes, if you leave their church, they assume you went on to be a junkie and commit all sorts of sins. You are considered the scum of the Earth. A betrayal to the church and to God.
@@elisemaiolo4352 Sure,Salvation is 100% God's doing. If one is a believer, its because, The Father chose him and gave him to the Son ,the Son died for him to forgive all his sin and the Holy Spirit takes out his heart of stone and replaces it with a heart of flesh that causes him to believe and then the Holy Spirit seals him .
@@Shepherd1647 was there a defining moment that let you know you had to leave? For me it was a sermon on Galatians 3 where the preacher totally flipped the meaning of the passage on its head in order to teach dispensationalism.
I was raised IFB and had a very good experience. My parents married in a church that was in the Hyles camp....and when all that stuff came out about Jack Hyles the Pastor had " Undying loyalty" to Dr. Hyles. That was not how my parents felt. I was raised at a different IFB church, and it was more " balanced", than the church my parents married at. I am now married to an SBC pastor. I never saw an abuse scandal. I feel like my parents were very balanced. I am thankful for my foundation being IFB.
Was and still am to a degree, an IFB, but in the Bob Jones camp. As a general demonstration of principles, I've observed a general policy of attempting to dress modestly, putting high priority to the training of children, and definitely reading and praying. In the church I attended, in Greenville, SC, we had both those who were pre-wrath Harpazao (rapture) and no rapture at all. Those who grievesly sinned against others (like cheating on a wife), they repented and stood in front of the church to show their repentance and asked for forgiveness. We watched movies but not R-rated, nor PG-rated. Others outside our camp thought of us as 'legalistic', but generally in the area of modesty or not being modest. My viewpoint is that these people feared and were trying their best to live for the Lord. Those who insulted us and rejected how we lived often refused to tell us why they disagreed with us ("You're wrong, you're legalistic, but I'm not going to tell you why or how, nor show you from Scripture why you're wrong). Was attacked by KJVO occasionally, some were really mean people in that camp.
Glad I listened. I did not come out of this movement. However, many churches teach the “do more, try harder” Christianity, of which I was part of and is burdensome and does not align with “my yolk is easy and my burden is light.” Also, as sinful beings, we tend to think higher of ourselves than we ought and look to others to justify our own righteousness.
Great video, I can relate to your story bc I grew up in strict Pentecostalism that used the same methods you discussed on holiness. It’s sad that many still want to live in a self righteous attitude that condemns many without even getting to know them. Let me know if you’d like to try to do an interview coming up from the opposite side of fundamentalism in the Pentecostal environment. Blessings brother.
"He has (past tense, already done, jistification to life) Perfected (Lord Jesus assured me that He Has Perfeted me forever) FOREVER, THOSE THAT ARE BEING SANCTIFIED. THE SPIRIT ASSURED ME THAT MY ETERNAL SECURITY IS IN, BY, AND THROUGH MY SAVIOUR AND MASTER JESUS, BECAUSE, HE IS THE ONLY SECURE ONE. AND MY ABBA (DADDY) FATHER, SHOWS HIS AFFECTION DAILY TO ME.
I left reformed theology for similar reasons: legalism, pietism, and reliance on works, grace that doesn’t save, unbiblical view of the sacraments, determinism, and other unbiblical, ahistorical teachings. I found Lutheranism and now have the peace I didn’t have in reformed theology.
I left the IFB for the SBC. After yesrs if that i drfted aeay from church for a number of years. Now I attend an Anglican church and have never been happier. Jesus preserves the temnant church across denominations. I see him preserving the remnant even with all the denominations falling into progressive and eoke theology. I am not able to go back into a low church environment right now. Our church homors God's holiness, his majesty, and his grace. I feel as though i have found the church that will allow me to grow in Christ. Peace of Christ to you brother.
Years ago, I interacted with an Anglican Vicar who seemed like a really nice guy and a genuine brother. I am guessing he would be in a very small group of Anglicans that are faithful to biblical authority and their history foundations? Would this be “Anglican Church in America?”
@@63stratomanActually 85%of the Anglican community follows the Bible and traditional Orthodoxy of the Anglican church. Unfortunately the Church of England and Episcopal church of America have decided to throw this away for social issues. Anglican worship can be high church, or it can look like an Evangelical church. My church is part of the Anglican Church in North America. It is not for everybody, but it is helping me to become more disciplined and purposeful in my worship of God.
I'll be brief but i so appreciated your message of hope and encouragement on this topic! I have been experiecing the same things and have walked away from it all (the corporate church) & whatever the call christianity today... I believe in The father, God, The Most High and his son. Jesus the christ, the messiah, but i also believe what we (believers) who are truly seeking Christ and his message of hope and reconciliation... TO THE POINT, christianity, just like judaism in jesus's day gonna be flipped upside down. Just as the pharisee's and the priest added to and changed God's word then, jesus was calling them out. I walk in a church, judgement, i visit my parents, judgement... Im already under God's judgement. I dont need any more condemnation than what my Bible says... I pray the Lord will save me in the end, because ive had it wrong for so long all while thinking the whole time i am better than ________. No one has any idea for whats coming and so many wont be ready, arent prepared, and believe they are good people, so.... Thanks man. Trying to break free from the dungeon programming, the guilt, the shame, the failure, the fear, the twisting of what christianity is today. Hate is rife in so many churches today, what good is Christ, without love.
You sound like you had a view of my past. When my mom was converted to Christianity (I was 6 or 7), the closest church to us was an IFB church. She didn't know any better, so we (she, I and my brother) began to attend. Yep, it was typical IFB: no rock music (but country was okay), KJVO, Christianity was judged on men by whether or not they had more than just a wedding ring on, or if their hair was past their ears and collar. Jesus didn't drink wine; He drank "grape juice" (never mind that modern grape juice is only about 200 years old). Luther and Calvin did good work, but didn't go far enough in their reforms. Every non-Catholic Christian of historical note was really a Baptist. Between that and the woman my mom worked with who talked her into eventually thinking that all denominations were evil creations of men, it was a messy upbringing we had. I'm now a confessional Lutheran, and there's no way you could get me anywhere else.
'The Hammer of God' by Bo Giertz is a must read for every evangelical pastor... listening to your story reminds me of the transformation that the protagonist experienced in the book.
"The Christian is called, not to individualism but to membership in the mystical Body. A consideration of the differences between the secular collective and the mystical Body is therefore the first step to understanding how Christianity without being individualistic can yet counteract collectivism."[C S Lewis]
The IFB cult truly damaged my relationship with God. I strayed so far that I ended up modeling for Playboy. I am so grateful God did not turn His back on me; He delivered me from demons and is healing my heart. I’m so grateful He forgave me and I now get to walk authentically with Him. I still struggle and have issues with church and church people getting too close as I feel smothered. I’m sure that comes from the trauma.
Ummm so how is it a Cult? IFB believe in the Ine true God, Jesus Christ. Just because they are stricter against sin and people are not perfect in the Church doesn’t make them a Cult. Be very careful young lady calling something a cult. Because they don’t follow after a man but God. Look up what a cult is….
@chiefdigger5216 Some are run like cults by petty dictators in the pulpit. The notion of the 'man of God' holding sway gives rise to this and why Scripture advocates plural leadership. Lots of majoring on minors too or things Scripture is silent on that they call standards laying unnecessary burdens on believers and women in particular. Of course, not all IFB churches are like that but no denying there are those that are toxic environments with rampant spiritual abuse and other forms of abuse too that have been well documented. The Hyles-Anderson orbit has stood out in this ignominious respect.
@@chiefdigger5216I think you raise some excellent questions here. I must admit that I sometimes refer to them as a "Christian Cult" - meaning that I consider them Christian in general, but very cultic in practise. Usually we do not consider any cult to be Christian, it is true. Nevertheless, it is the cultic nature of Independent Baptists which led me to use that designation. Notwithstanding, they are not a cult in the full blown sense that JWs and such like are. Indeed I treasure the brothers and sisters I met in that church. Furthermore, not all churches are equal. I live in Australia 🌏🦘 and I realise that our situation is very different from that of the USA. In addition to this, the IFB church I attended was considered the most legalistic and controlling of their "synod" in my home city in Australia. (I know they don't use such terminology as "synods" but it doesn't change the reality of the practise. Many other churches practise congregational, autonomous government yet exist in such "synodical" arrangements for example. So I can only speak of my own experiences + the public information openly available. 1) I saw the heavy handed practises of the "Diotrophes" style "pastor" which is condemned in 3rd John. It was later identified as skin to papal control, No better than Roman Catholicism. Christ says, "One is your master even Christ and all you are brethren" (Matthew 23:8, 10). My so called "pastor" chafed ahd rebelled when this admonition of the Lord was pointed out. Later, he caused his own church to split and he abandoned the flock. And later on called himself "pastor to Australia" . All without a call. - Doctrinally, I was beginning to Prove all things and hold fast to that which is good, like those in Berea. (Acts 17:11; 1 Thessalonians 5:21) I began to discover major cracks in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptistical doctrines.... - I rejected Calvinism after studying their doctrines. - But I found out that Predestination and Election not only predate Calvin, but ate thoroughly Scriptural. Indeed, Augustine, Wycliffe, Huss and Luther and even Calvin were very clear in the universal atonement. Yet they were equally clear that only the elect will be saved purely based on the grace and choice of God. - I discovered that IFB were synergistic in that they exalt the will and choice of man in conversion - I also learner that IFB were semi pelagian, a heresy condemned already ~ 1600 years ago. In practise most (ana) Baptists deny original sin. They have to because they have an eclectic doctrine of the salvation of children. It is not based on Scripture. - I also came to see that their eschatology is riddled with Chiliasm. It is NOT the historic faith ahd departs from Apostolic Doctrine. The mark of all Chiliasts will not submit to the Apostolic Rules of Exposition. As such it is false and to be condemned! - As a convinced "Baptist" I set out to prove the Baptist arguments and doctrines using the Greek New Testament. But the more I examined the Baptist "proof texts" in the light of the original texts, the more I saw their arguments collapse. And I realised that it is untrue, mostly based on the poor rendering of the KJV in those texts. Indeed, this was pointed out by the KJV translator Dr Daniel Featley back in 1642AD when he debated the world's first Baptists. - Legalism ... It's a sad consequence of a church that produces preachers who cannot rightly distinguish Law and Gospel. It is true that certain practises are pietistic and unfounded in Scripture. But the sheer lack of clarity on the necessity of the Gospel for Christians is the most glaring concern. - Independent Baptists also follow Calvinism in their shallow and ungrammatical doctrine of "eternal security". For this reason IFB are characterised as "semi Calvinist" Calvinist in that they hold a version of the Reformed doctrine of the perseverance of the Saints ...with many of the same "proof texts". But Calvinists point out that security is conditional upon good fruits and continuance in holiness. IFB ditch even this Scripture qualification and clarification. But both insist falsely that a Christian cannot ultimately fall away. - IFB are Arminian in that they reject the doctrine of Election and hold to synergistic practises such as "altar calls" and "decisions for Christ" All of these false practises are easy to refute using Sola Scriptura in tandem with the inspired Apostolic Rules of Exposition.
The Independent Baptist "cult" is indeed one thing. And it is good that you were freed from it. But your sin is entirely your own fault. We all know when we are doing wrong. And we all must take responsibility for our sins, which are truly damnable before a holy God. When we sin we do so willingly and we are liable to damnation (2 Timothy 2:12) Let's take the admonition seriously: "If / While we are sinning wilfully there is remaining no more sacrifice for sins" (Hebrews 10:26) "But God shall wound the head of his enemies AND the hairy scalp of such a one that goes on still in their Trespasses" (Psalm 68:21) "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Ezekiel 33:13; Romans 8:13) It is good that you have returned to Christ, if indeed you truly have. Just remember that God accepts us when we humble ourselves and return to him in true contrition (Isaiah 66:2; Psalm 34:18) Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD. (Jeremiah 3:13)
A good question for a preacher to ask themselves: when was the last time one of my sermons changed my life? Then the killer follow up: if my preaching doesn't 10:20 change my life, why would I expect it to change anyone else's?
Greetings in Jesus Name brethren. I know IFB preachers some can be nasty and mean and will tear a struggling brother down instead of exhorting them. Not Christ like by no means. Thank you for this. The faith OF ( From ) Christ to believe in Christ which is the gift of God. Amen ( Ephesians) a wonderful book. The KJV stands alone respectfully i say. Thank and God bless you for this. Steven / Louisiana
sometimes it is a fine line that is crossed from simply having proper moral standards and modest attire to extreme legalism... I am IFB all the way, but my local church is pretty moderate on things like dress codes....
Mine is as well. They are wonderful ppl, seems to be isolated incidents. I came from a charismatic church where I didn't have membership, what is your opinion on not being able to participate in activities if you are not a member?
@@pilar689 Hi.... Depends on the activity, I believe. What are you thinking about? I assume you are referring to a frequent attendee who is not a member? In our assembly you could not vote regarding "inhouse" issues, for example. Or lead the congregation in prayer.....or usher. Some of the IFB churches I am acquainted with would not let a non member participate in the music service, except of course congregational singing. The exceptions would be known Christians from sister congregations, as far as the music and prayers... We will accept new members by vote, via statement of faith with or without baptismal record, if the believer testifies that he/she was baptized by immersion.
Yes, thank you...was referring to the music ministry. The pastor is being so kind and letting Mr participate in the choir however I'm not supposed to. I just don't understand having to become a member in order to be in the choir. I didn't have to do that at my old church, not sure why I take such issue to this. I've been going since 2013.
I attend a Presbyterian church for local fellowship, but have started listening in because most reformed churches have little in the way of theology education in our area. It is good to see someone explain reformed doctrine including why we have confession of sin, confession of faith, creeds, prayers, and communion in fellowship. I want to share these videos with others because I strongly disagree with rapture thinking from the first time I heard it.
Interesting me too The teaching is new If all the real Christians get raptured there is no hope for salvation of those left as the only reason the holy spirit here because of the Christians When we go He goes There is no second chances
I came out of an extremely unhealthy independent Baptist environment. They were pretty far out honestly, very isolationist, assocated with the person and/or ideology of such stellars as Fred Phelps and Peter Ruckman. I can only praise God he got me out of that to a tasting of the true freedom and life in Christ. Still struggling with some of the repercussions (and, of course, my own issues--I am a sinner, after all); I pray God opens the eyes of those still in that world.
I spent 15 years in leadership and 5 as a regular member. I was so disappointed once I became an assistant to the pastor and began to see all the ungodly things that go on in leadership.
This was very well spoken. All of this is a problem not just in IFB churches but so many others as well. I experienced this raised in a Catholic church and I experienced it in my former church of 29 years which was reformed baptist. My eyes have been opened as I've searched for a church for the past 2 years and have visited over 25. Is this guy speaking a Calvinist? He doesn't sound like one. Not my experience coming out of a Calvinistic church.
Yes, Theocast is Calvinist. Jon and Justin both. Recommend UA-cam channel Beyond The Fundamentals for info on stealth Calvinism which is why you can't detect Calvinism in the Theocast videos. Going from Hyles IFB into Calvinism is frying pan into the fire. I go to IFB church where the pastor and people are loving and godly and what I wear is not an issue. A lot has changed since Jon was IFB. God did some purging of the IFB. Calvinism has no grace and another gospel. Jon says, "I'm not here to talk about Calvinism". Of course not. If he told the truth, people would see how they portray God contrary to His nature, another god and another gospel that is not a gospel.
@kbuchanan2026 I've had a lot to learn the past few years after being immersed in my former church for so long. Yes, I've listened to a ton of Beyond the Fundamental videos and many on stealth calvinism. I listen to various perspectives on doctrine and theology. I am not Calvinistic in my biblical understanding. I do want to understand why others hold to different positions and interpretations. Calvinism is so pervasive that I can not find a church that is not within reasonable driving distance.
There are IFB’s without the influence of Jack Hylism. Beat the wolves. However, reformed theology is Protestant, ie partially catholic. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Reform IFB in the image of Christ.
I thank Theocast for providing Scripture knowledge that really gives untold comfort. I have been on the path for a long time and been trying to understand. I have been thinking through some Biblical issues and listening to Theocast's and also views of the Dispensational perspective (Grace Ambassadors). I must say Theocast seems to be close to the position of the Dispensationalist. Here is some of what I come to conclude and may clear up confusion. It seems very obvious now, but not so before. Here is my rant. Only from Paul, Apostle to the Gentiles, do we understand Salvation Without Works. Did he receive a different gospel than the 12 Apostles? There seems to be a difference. Is there a difference between Gospel of the Kingdom and The Gospel of Grace? Was Paul just delivering the same gospel as the 12, just tweaked a little OR was Paul's Gospel totally or significantly different (Under Law vs Under Grace w/o the Law). Why was Paul appointed as an apostle in addition to the 12? Why did Jesus see his appointment necessary? Was not the Gospel of the Kingdom concerning Jews Only - Israel under the Law? Is there a difference in Jusus' earthly ministry vs his After Resurrection ministry? Paul's
what IFB believes you have to live a certain way not to go to hell?!?! I know there are some that are works based but most I know are free grace. You mentioned Jack Hyles he was definitely against works based so thats confusing.
Yeah, and I know this guy personally. He married my pastor's daughter and came to my church. We even went to the same Bible college. So he should know that NO Baptist believes in works being able to take away one's salvation. This is antithetical to Baptist doctrine. He may have grown up in a legalistic church, but our church was far from that. When he left IFB, it was our church. And he left in all the wrong ways causing a lot of hurt. He tried to bring reformed theology into our church, stirring division. It was not right what he did. All because he started going to Master's Seminary and they got to his head. He should know his Bible better. Reformed theology is NOT biblical. And I'm no longer IFB, btw. I recognize their problems, but they are very different problems than what he is alleging here. I think he is trying to paint them worse than they really are, however, there are certain groups of IFB churches that follow certain preachers, which I call the IFB cult. These churches elevate their traditional Baptist views to the same authoritative level as Scripture and they aren't even scriptural. They twist Scripture to mean what they want it to mean, and will not accept being wrong, even if you show them what the Scripture really means using proper exegesis. They refuse to accept it because it goes against everything they were indoctrinated into. The indoctrination is strong and that's why I call it a cult. Our church was not part of that cult and I still go there to visit. It is a great church.
@@rlolo777 there is always more to why people leave a church! How many people have hurt us leaving our church because of loving another doctrine . It happens. I believe brother John is a good brother and has much good to say. Thankful for the ministry but it’s interesting to see you say this
AHHH!! The Scofield "Bible"! That's where this all goes back to! Not God and his pure word, but the words of a corrupt man! 2 Peter 3:18...But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory now and forever. Amen! Christianity is do this, don't do that! Do you want to please God or man? Jesus even said, "If you love me, keep my commandments!" Jesus also said, "...my commandments are not grievous!" Sad to see this man fall from the grace he had been looking for!
I heard about the division and destruction that the IFB can cause when I was in Dubuque,Iowa. There was a good church there known as Dubuque Bible Church. It was growing and having a positive effect on an area that is dominated by catholicism. Some small group of people at Dubuque Bible Church got a hold of some KJV only materials and got taken it by it. They brought it in to the church and they split that church. The people they carried with them left and formed an IFB church and left the Dubuque Bible Church split,hurting,damaged and reeling. The destruction of an entire local church over something as unimportant as what Bible version was being used. That whole thing was nothing but sin. While I was attending the Dubuque Bible Church,we had a mens Bible study in a restaurant. Somebody from the IFB church that had split from DBC overheard us talking and engaged in conversation with us. He claimed that his IFB church had had an evangelistic outreach and that 96 people had been saved. But our pastor at DBC knew about the shallow evangelistic techniques of the IFB,so he asked the guy,how many of them are in church. He wouldnt answer. He said he had to go.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1 John:2:19
@@Acall2Witness the NIFB is not Free Grace, it just pretends to be it. I hold to Free Grace theology (but not IFB), but I would never see the NIFB as brethren. Steven Anderson has made statements such as "if you believe, your faith will never waver, you will never have homosexual feelings, you will never use the name Yeshua, you will never kill" etc etc. I don't understand how Anderson can say that a true believer cannot be murderous, even though David killed a man.
I came out of the IFB world after decades in the very center of it, so I know all of the issues. However, going from legalism to Calvinism is just moving from one cult to another. Sad…
First of all IFB is not a cult and neither is Calvinism. Unfortunately, if you don't know that then you then you don't understand what it takes to be saved.
First, thanks Jon. Much of this is so excellent and glorious. It's good to rest in the grace of the Gospel. I had a quesiton on how you distinguish between the conditionality of convenant blessings, and pietism? Specifically, do you think that Christians experience the indicatives of justification and their union with Christ, the blessings of hoping in Christ, in ways that are conditioned on particular kinds of actions done in faith? An example would be how we see Proverbs, particularly in light of the architecture of the book in proverbs 2, and in light of Proverbs 31, as a kind of covenant document on what the aspiring son of God, and royal Israelite, should do to enjoy YHWH's blessing- namely, normatively, mature into the kind of godly man that pursues a woman like lady wisdom. That's an example, I think Piper's book on Future Grace is great for explicit conditional grace on top of the unconditional grace of the Gospel. Thanks.
Hebrews, as a Christian sermon, seems to be different than mere Christotelic or Christocentric preaching- which I agree has its place. But, it seems like Pauline Triune Christology includes both the indicatives and imperatives, and that the book of Hebrews seems to show us the supremacy of the Son points to the examples of the OT in Hebrews 11 seen as paradigms and lessons for embodied faith.
Hi Jon, my husband and I also grew up in the HI desert California, Apple Valley. After my husband got saved we started going to Calvary Chapel in Hesperia. May I ask, where did you live in the Hi desert?
@@jeffwatt4684 scratching my head on that also with you. I'm old enough that I used to in the 80's get MacArthur's cassette tapes every few weeks...listened to hundreds of hours of Johnny Mac, have 50 of his books. Was also in an IFB church for about a year. Also took an Abner Chou theology course out of TMS.....TMS is not a brand of IFB. Many IFB pastors and leaders, esp long ago, thought MacArthur a heretic.
I grew up carasmatic church and went to various Baptist Churches ended up in a covenant theology church that wouldn't youch Bible prophecy at all and left there to go to another Baptist Church. I never been to a IFB church but that is what I believe now though. You see what the watering down of the gospel has done just to make the church money and to get people in the door.. plus it's hard to be a Dispensationalist when the word dispensation is taken out if modern translation.
Some of the reasons I left. -Hyper authority pastors - Bad culture . - Bad doctrine / Dispensationalists - Separation from other Christians (supposed to believe IFB is only correct form of Christianity) - rampant abuse from places like First baptist Hammond . - idol worship/ pastor worshiping / Jack Hyles - Legalism -
The one thing about the IFB movement, that is completely incomprehensible to me is there dogged king James onlyism. I don’t even understand the argument. Do they find a verse in the king James Bible that says that this is the only translation of scripture that is acceptable? I don’t even know if it’s an argument for the Textus Receptus which is the basis of the king James, or if it is an argument for the reinspiration of the Bible in the English language, 1500 years after the fact even though the English language didn’t exist for over 1000 years after the Bible was written in Greek. What gives? How can otherwise intelligent people believe such nonsense? Can anyone help me with this? I mean I hear them babbling about the corruption of the modern versions, but there were English versions that preceded the king James, such as the Geneva Bible, and there were English versions after the king, James, so what’s so special about the king, James?
God promised he would preserve his word. That doesn’t say it won’t come without corruption. Use discernment when doing this study. The preserved Bible documentary I believe may and hope will answer your questions friend.
20 years in the IFB and quite familiar with Trieber, Chappell, Hyles, and so forth. Took another 20 years to fully get over, unlearn all the bad stuff and relearning everything correctly! I am now more Independent, more Fundamental, more BAPTIST than ever for all the right reasons and based upon the right things! Yeah, there are good IFB Baptists out there but strange thing is you’d really have to press them to get them to say so plus all of the “Big Name IFB” types I mentioned would consider them to be liberal compromisers and not “true IFB” To summarize, the IFB crowd we are both speaking of exemplify horrible teaching at best and are potentially false teachers as well as false accusers! Tell them I said so.
This sounds really good and it's in part true, the only problem is that there are also those verses that you say aren't taught in Scripture as well, somebody please explain to me who JESUS is speaking to in the 4 warnings on readiness that are mentioned at the end of Matt 24, starting in vs 42 through the end of Chapter 25. It seems HE'S talking to HIS disciples and those parables seem to be speaking against backsliding, lukewarmness, inactivity and lack of good works. 3 out of 4 use language of perdition as the consequence. I am not arguing but sincerely asking. What about Romans 8:13?, James mentioning in 2:24 that we're justified by works and not faith alone? JESUS saying in John 15 that the FATHER takes away the branches that don't produce fruit? Please someone respond.
When trying to understand passages of scripture, there is an important principle that needs to be applied…..Context….let this guide you. “Without a context, all you have is a pretext, used to support a presupposition”. In your reference in Matt. Jesus is speaking about what He will judge on, and it reflects backs to what Jesus told them about love, ( the greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God…etc) and the second is Love your neighbor as yourself. God’s undeserved favor (grace) His love and mercy are meant to be our motivation, we are to reflect (demonstrate) the love shown to us back to the world. Will we ever be perfect at it…no, but it’s by his grace we stand through faith.
You are spot on, it is grace that teaches us to say no to sin. Titus 2:11 One thing… as Christians we are no longer “sinners”. We are saints who hopefully sometimes sins. We sin less and less as we learn and grow in Jesus by His grace. Check out Andrew Farley.
Reformed Baptist would be the route to go. I cant see how anyone once enlightened regarding believers baptism could turn presbyterian due to baptising babies despite their otherwise sound theology
Correction : The Independent "FUNNY Mentalist" Baptist Movement. These guys are mentally off to say th least! Starting with the Granddaddy of them all Jack Hyles.
My grievance with ifb church is the use if scofield reference bible leading to false doctrine regarding the timing of the so named rapture and more importantly the support for modern day Israel and Judaism. These things are not caused by the use of KJV bible. Anybody that alters Gods word will be punished and there is a long list of such heretics.
The problem I have with the IFB is the rampant insensitivity toward the blind and visually impaired the movement produces. They tell you that a KJV Bible is absolutely necessary for spiritual growth, but none of them are willing to provide KJV Bibles in Braille. Bible apps are usually not accessible to those of us who use screen readers, but if I say that, they’ll say I’m making excuses for why blind believers don’t read the Bible. There also seems to be a stigma surrounding blind believers having assurance of salvation and growing spiritually in that environment.
Braille Bibles are an essential for a blind or low vision believer. Im sorry for the experience you went through. Hopefully more Braille Bibles in all formats will be available soon. I am becoming a Braille Transcriptionist to help in this.
@Broketoblessed What do you think about the stigma attached to blind and visually impaired believers having assurance of salvation, lack of discipleship resources for the blind, and disability rights in the church? Are you aware of these things?
Praise the Lord Brother. I was raised in the charismatic and the same thing was spouted in the churches I ran in. Don't watch/listen/do etc. I grew up bitter and confused especially after seeing people I looked up to have moral failures in the church. I got to a point that I got fed up with it and went atheist for a spell. A brother that left the church I was going to reached out to me and shared the Gospel with me through great teachers in the reformed theology camp and it blew my mind. Thank God He is faithful even though we are not.
Praise the Lord for delivering you out of that mess. He delivered me out of the IFB and I am so thankful. Yes, God is faithful always.
You're a clavinist?
@@wesfields9322 I would say no as I'm not clear on what all makes a Calvinist.
All of the charismatics that I know seem to be the opposite of "no, no, no..." They are all driven purely by emotional experiences, and they seem to have little spiritual discernment on worldly things.
Regardless, praise God that you (Holy Spirit's help of course) recognized your situation and were able to instead search for sound doctrine.
@@elmariachi451 reformers tend to not trust and preach on the biblical gospel
As a pastor myself, who also came out of the IFB, I can greatly relate to this. Thank you for posting this brother. It was a great encouragment for me to watch this.
The youtube algorithm gets it right sometimes. 🙂
I grew up on the fringes of the IFB movement, but praise God my father, who was a preacher, fought against that whole legalistic system. So even when I attended a Christian school which leaned that way, I had the biblical grounding to understand that school rules were just school rules, not Bible doctrine. When we had IFB "evangelists" in to speak, I just ignored them when they got on their favorite "sin" that was extra-biblical. My father taught me to think biblically and make decisions according to biblical principles.
I was IFB , did youth summer camps at Jack Hyles church 1971-72, many friends went to Hyles Anderson college. I learned sin very well at them churches, as long as we had our haircut high and tight and we came to be counted. By 87 I gave up. My mom was very involved but after she died I had a box of tapes from John MacArthur from 82. Come 2018 I started listening to them. Now I am reformed. I was always asking about things in the bible and was told that when God was ready I would make me understand. Now that I am an old man I talk to friends from back then Only 1 of us has remained IFB. Sex and drugs were rampant in that church. Everybody was having affairs. IFB is also a numbers game. No time for growth for new christians, take a hand full of tracts and go to the park to fill the bus routes. Stay strong and enjoy God's blessing you are living.
John macrthurs church is down the street from me and I'll tel you right now that they're definetly not involved. They have ministries but you'll never be able to talk to the pastor or fellowship with him and it's a huge church lol.
Im no pastor, but I had a similar experience with growing up in the ifb culture and have talked with many people who had the same questions about bible passages that dont line up with their teaching and soul winning ministeries that get large numbers of professions but almost no faithful Christians as a result. It's encouraging to hear this articulated so well here.
Theocast has been a blessing to my faith. Thank you. I came from a charismatic background. I am still learning and your podcast is teaching me so much.
How do you know that what they say is true?
In 1980 i was expelled from Tennessee Temple University because of room inspections. It was sad and hard for me because my father had been one of the heroes of the movement. the year after that it came out the the dean of the school that expelled me had been in adultery with his secretary for a decade.
I'm a dependent fundamental Baptist, I depend on the grace of God to get me through each day. As for the ifb I don't see it as a "movement" at all. This isn't a come and go fad but a spiritual way of life. For those of you that believe that trying to live the Bible is legalism you probably need to review the meaning. The experience I've had is that some of the members of ifb churches seem to be shy about the friendships they cultivate. Legalism is a system of works based outcomes. Ifb isn't that at all. Maybe folk need to mow their grass before a harsh comment on someone else's yard. You do you and I do me and we can both be happy. God bless
The rules of the IFB he’s talking about - no movies - no pants for woman. No swimming- piano or organ backed music only . No drinking- it’s all no s that are not in scripture . People like me got so crushed by this spirit I left God and the church completely - crushed under the weight of the do nots
@@williamjarvis3473 we don’t try to live by the Bible, we live in obedience to God out of love for him.
The Bible don’t teach that drinking is a sin nor that women have to wear floor length dresses to be modest.
The IFB is full of man made rules, little understanding of the Bible and lack of Grace that Christ grants us.
@@OlgaSmirnova1 like I said in my comment, "you do you and I do me and we're both happy". I'm not going through my Christian life to make you or anyone else happy, 2nd Tim 2:15 KJV
I thank God for you and Justin. I grew up in Gothard-ism and God is using y’all to help me grow in truth and find rest in Jesus.
I think the issue is one of conflating habit and holiness. IFB took a good desire: the wish to inculcate godly habits into disciples. And they turned it into a spirituality test.
We are creatures who need routine. God made us this way. Godly habits are to be lauded. But they are not "requirements" to be saved, or even holy living.
The flip side is, broader Evangelicalism is so afraid of appearing legalistic that we *don't* encourage spiritual disciplines. We don't talk about what it takes to cultivate a prayer life, or deep Bible reading, or regular repentance of the sins besetting us. And so we have a shallow Christendom that can't stand when the storms come.
We need the disciplines. But we also need the grace not to judge our, or others, spirituality by how well we keep them.
Regular repentance of sins is not a Biblical doctrine.
It’s taught by people today, but neither Jesus nor His disciples taught for us to promise God that we will never sin again!
And that’s what repenting of sins is.
It’s being sinless, which is not possible.
The Gospel that we are saved by believing is found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
I was in the IFB for 16 years. They are super legalistic. They do not know what grace is. They have a list of "rules" they consider to be holy living. I thought if I kept the rules on the list, I was fine and that made me right before the Lord. They do not preach the true gospel of grace. They have a lot of prerequisites for a person to even to come to Christ. Sort of like "cleaning up your act" stuff. Women had to wear dresses/skirts and have long hair. Men had to wear button up dress shirts and have their hair cut above their ears. On and on with the focus on outward appearance.
Couldn't own a TV or like Jon said, go to a movie. Couldn't have a sip of alcohol - one of the biggest sins of all. If you ever miss a church service they question where you were and why you weren't at church. And don't you dare look a a Bible translation that isn't KJV because the devil created those. They are super Arminian in doctrine - they hate the doctrines of grace. They have no expositional preaching at all. Just topical and take Scriptures out of context to fit whatever they want to preach.
They do not tell people we are unable to walk in holiness apart from the Lord working in us. Almost all the preachers in it are unloving and super judgmental. If you are not IFB, they think you aren't even saved. It's very cultish. I thank God for getting me out of it. There's a great channel on YT called Preacher Boys that exposes the IFB. I encourage people to check it out.
@@Adam-gm5tm So we're not to pray in the pattern of the Lord's Prayer, which includes confession of sin?
And no. I'm not saying be sinless. Nor am I saying we're saved by anything but believing. You did exactly what I say we often do. We conflate good habits with holiness. Consciously building positive habits is valuable. Because we are all going to have them, good or bad. That doesn't make it holiness. But it does make for a life that is more conducive to honoring God. Will we fall short? Yes. Am I encouraging pride or legalism? No. A tool is neither good nor bad. What we do with the tool is what makes it good or bad.
@@shawngillogly6873
Confession of sin is not the same as repenting of sins.
1 John 1:9 speaks about confessing or agreeing with God concerning our sins.
Confessing sin is Biblical, repenting of sins is not.
@Adam-gm5tm What about repentance for salvation?
This is refreshing to hear. I was raised in moralistic churches where people hid their sin to show an “I’ve got it together” outer image. This is incredibly destructive to a person’s spiritual growth, my own included. It stunts your growth and forces you into self loathing because you can never measure up to your own legalistic expectations. Grace is much bigger than that. It’s not just for salvation but also for daily sanctification.
This message finally explains many of my questions, doubts and fears. I look forward to learning more.
Thank you for this message.
Thanks, Jon, for sharing your testimony. It's really no different from being in the charismatic movement. We had the same demands and burdens put on us, eventually leading to disappointment and disillusionment. Thanks to God for setting us free out of it all!
Agree completely
We spent 18 months in an IFB... too many things to mention and terrifying is an understatement.
I looked after some kids who ran from that
To them it seemed to me the bible was all about the Christian and their performance
Instead the bible is all about Jesus and his performance at Calvary
It seems they have no idea of the sovereignty of God
And so very much more
@@mollymuch2808 Yes exactly. It was all about their "testimony" A pastor who covered up his families sins under his roof, a daughter sleeping with a deacons grandson for months and denying covering up and lying. Everyone sins but transparency was not allowed it was a fake cover up. Then He knew God's will for others lives, Or what his "wife" wanted him to do. He was not a Shepard. He was not a real pastor he was a manipulator now he runs a Missions tour group taking money from people all over the US togo to Africa. To be able to heal and forgive has been a journey but our Lord is Sovereign and he has used that for good in our family in so so many ways, Praise God and pray for those deceived under wolves.
@@mollymuch2808 Sounds about right... its a very sad system that creates extreme judgmental attitudes with a cult like group settings. There are so many levels of control and everything he said about KJV is spot on.
Thanks for sharing. Sometimes we give the most help by sharing our own experiences. Very helpful.
@4:55 to @5:04 - I just within the past 3 years have had the same experience where when my Mom died, reality came upon me; Even though I’ve always believed in Jesus Christ, I’d strayed and wasn’t ‘in the Word’. Since then, I’ve come back to Jesus and found that Jesus never left me, even though I backslid from Him.
I grew up in the Assembly of God denomination and had a similar experience as you described at the beginning of the video.
Thank you for sharing your journey - God has clearly gifted you to move genuine believers toward the great truths and joys of the gospel. I can relate in many ways with your path. ❤
Thank you so much!
I was in the same situation nearly 40 years ago, and it is amazing how similar these "coming out" stories are. I was not raised IFB but ended up at Hyles -Anderson, and through a combination of events and experiences now pastor an independent Reformed church.
So true! I've learned this over the years. The guilt is terrible. Thanks for this.
Your story is similar to mine. The ironic thing is that I have three degrees from IFB schools. Midwestern Baptist College, Liberty University and Tennessee Temple. The last two schools were more academic and allowed for critical thinking. Back in the late eighties I discovered R.C. Sproul and reformed theology. I loved his scholarship and his grasp of church history and apologetics. Today at 71 I serve as the director of the men's ministry as a volunteer at a SBC church in South Carolina. Keep up the good work!
Good grief! My dear brother, I don’t know where to start. I received Christ as my savior when I was 37 years old. I am now 75 years old. During that time I have been a member of five independent fundamental King James, only Baptist churches. All of them were a little different and all of the pastors of course had some differences. Everyone of these pastors, we’re humble, caring and loving. I personally have never experienced any of the things that you have outlined as being unbiblical. The messages I have heard over these many years have all been very uplifting and encouraging. Grace was always preached. I have not heard a pastor, preach against long hair, tattoos or pants worn by women. I have seen all of these types of people in all of these churches, and they have been welcome with open arms. I’m sorry for your bad experiences and being so discouraged. That is a terrible way to live as a Christian. That being said, I pray for God‘s blessing upon you my dear brother and your congregation. Thank you for letting me ramble on.
You’re not visually impaired. That’s why your assurance of salvation and spiritual growth weren’t stigmatized by the IFB, brother.
A very good book by Gene Edwards, A Tale of Three Kings, helped me understand why God places us under spiritual leadership that seems flawed. Of course it’s a trial for our edification, but it really taught me to rely on God’s decisions for my life because He has a reason for everything. I learned so much solid Bible understanding while in an IFB church. I also learned to listen to the Holy Spirit when He directed me away from it. For me, I was learning from God that pleasing Him was not adherence to these rules of performance. I believe we please God by trusting and obeying Him, and seeking His will. God placed me there for a purpose and when I outgrew the teaching IFB could provide, He led me onward. It was my springboard into trusting God above all others and to discern God’s wisdom from man’s. I’m grateful. God is so good!
Thank you for reminding me of God's precious gift of grace.
You’re welcome!
I was saved through the ministry of an independent Baptist church the preach salvation by grace through faith, but once in the church the does and don’ts and God won’t bless if you violate the lists. Family members including my wife still seem to be held in bondage to this kind of thinking. It’s a struggle, thanks for sharing your struggle.
The only do’s and don’ts are from God in His Word and He is the only one we are accountable to. We are free from the trappings of sin by the washing by the blood of Jesus. We live in joy, not judgment.
We are not justified through faith alone. The Bible and Church History are quite clear on this.
@@jimgiammarco6970With all due respect, I am certain that you have no idea of his particular church and experiences. How should you know what he endured?
I attended an Independent Baptist sect here in Australia.
It was woeful and they did add to Scripture many things that are unscriptural , whilst falsifying the majority of Christian Doctrines into a weird legalistic hybrid.
I do agree that parts of the Gospel were occasionally to be found in that church. But the woeful mixing of Law and Gospel, the heavy handed "popish pastors" and the interfering in peoples marriages ..... Shall I go on?
The worst parts for me were the ignorance of the historic faith,
and the complete lack of knowledge of the Apostolic Rules of Exposition,
along with the complete ignorance of the original languages of Scripture are just too much to stomach....
Enough said ...
Amen Brother. I pray for these IFB Churches near me I use to attend. Certain ones are so deceived by their own self righteousness. One man is so extreme he is hateful.
Thank you for this video. It helps me feel heard at what I’m currently going through leaving.
Must be nice. I grew up in sin and without sound doctrine. I appreciate the IFB because after coming from the world, to going through all types of churches, I finally after ten years I walked in to an IFB church. The bible way still works. 1 Cor 3:18
KJV bible is full of mistranslations, it's a very shitty corrupted version of the bible
Yup. These kids trashing their upbringing and parents should be ashamed of themselves. Just adjust your beliefs.
This guy didn't catch some things and it's IFB's fault? I think not.
@Zundfolge2000 everything IFB is bad and it's their fault horrible horrible christians
@@Pr0teinShake Not sure if you're serious or not...but I'm not IFB. Still think the criticism has gotten silly. Too much bitterness behind the criticism. They just don't see it.
Stay with God's Word and you will grow in faith. Beware of these institutions infiltrated by Rome. Be a good Berean. Beware of popular preachers, authors, and others.
All do respect, pastor.
I enjoyed listening to your talk.
I am of Mexican descent. Grew up catholic. Accepted Yavashua in the seventies.
Then moved to the desert and joined a fib church learned much . We moved out further so it was difficult to attend church. I missed church , but too far to attend . I asked my Elohim, what shall I do lord ?
He said read the scriptures . Read , and begin at the beginning, genius! To revelation.
So I obeyed . And what I have learned is so much of what I was never taught . And this is very sad , pastor !
I was never taught of the Torah the Tanaka! And etc , etc ! The entire Bible . From the beginning, Yavashua hamachi was there !!!
Why Was I never taught ????
I know who I am in my el shaddai!!!
Hallelujah!
I am a child of the king . And not only do I have his blood running through my viens I am an Israeli.
Yavashua was a Jew ! All the disciples were Jews . We gentiles were grafted to the main branch !
For instance,
The word , Christ. The Roman’s who fought isreal and invaded there territory!
The word , Christ came from them !
Why are we not taught the history of what happened??
I have learned so much . I know who I am in Yavashua hamachi, today .
The Holy Spirit that lives and his presence is
Always with me .
I am Israeli.
Not Mexican, not baptist , not catholic.
I am Israeli, why? Because I have the blood of the lamb running through me . I am sealed and called by name by Elohim!!!
Glory to el shaddai, all mighty G-D!
Thank you for your video! Explains and describes exactly what I'm going through with my brother, the anger, the judgemental attitude. He started going to this kind of church more than a year ago. After hearing the Pastor on a conservative radio station as a guest caller, for tearing up a document during the pandemic. Nightmare ever since. Can't have a reasonable, calm discussion with him, share different views. He's always pushing the church's beliefs on others. Everything you said of your experience is on point! Yes, if you leave their church, they assume you went on to be a junkie and commit all sorts of sins. You are considered the scum of the Earth. A betrayal to the church and to God.
The Lord used my study of Church history and the reformation to bring me to the truth of reformed theology.
May I ask what you concluded from your study?
@@elisemaiolo4352 Sure,Salvation is 100% God's doing. If one is a believer, its because, The Father chose him and gave him to the Son ,the Son died for him to forgive all his sin and the Holy Spirit takes out his heart of stone and replaces it with a heart of flesh that causes him to believe and then the Holy Spirit seals him .
I left IFB June 2022. Thankful for how God used them in my life. In PCA since then
@@Shepherd1647 was there a defining moment that let you know you had to leave? For me it was a sermon on Galatians 3 where the preacher totally flipped the meaning of the passage on its head in order to teach dispensationalism.
I was raised IFB and had a very good experience. My parents married in a church that was in the Hyles camp....and when all that stuff came out about Jack Hyles the Pastor had " Undying loyalty" to Dr. Hyles. That was not how my parents felt. I was raised at a different IFB church, and it was more " balanced", than the church my parents married at. I am now married to an SBC pastor. I never saw an abuse scandal. I feel like my parents were very balanced. I am thankful for my foundation being IFB.
Was and still am to a degree, an IFB, but in the Bob Jones camp. As a general demonstration of principles, I've observed a general policy of attempting to dress modestly, putting high priority to the training of children, and definitely reading and praying. In the church I attended, in Greenville, SC, we had both those who were pre-wrath Harpazao (rapture) and no rapture at all. Those who grievesly sinned against others (like cheating on a wife), they repented and stood in front of the church to show their repentance and asked for forgiveness. We watched movies but not R-rated, nor PG-rated. Others outside our camp thought of us as 'legalistic', but generally in the area of modesty or not being modest. My viewpoint is that these people feared and were trying their best to live for the Lord. Those who insulted us and rejected how we lived often refused to tell us why they disagreed with us ("You're wrong, you're legalistic, but I'm not going to tell you why or how, nor show you from Scripture why you're wrong). Was attacked by KJVO occasionally, some were really mean people in that camp.
Glad I listened. I did not come out of this movement. However, many churches teach the “do more, try harder” Christianity, of which I was part of and is burdensome and does not align with “my yolk is easy and my burden is light.” Also, as sinful beings, we tend to think higher of ourselves than we ought and look to others to justify our own righteousness.
Amen Amen ~ Praying. Forever grateful for the Holy Spirit leading us in truth
Great video, I can relate to your story bc I grew up in strict Pentecostalism that used the same methods you discussed on holiness. It’s sad that many still want to live in a self righteous attitude that condemns many without even getting to know them.
Let me know if you’d like to try to do an interview coming up from the opposite side of fundamentalism in the Pentecostal environment. Blessings brother.
Ditto, Ditto,Ditto
"He has (past tense, already done, jistification to life) Perfected (Lord Jesus assured me that He Has Perfeted me forever) FOREVER, THOSE THAT ARE BEING SANCTIFIED.
THE SPIRIT ASSURED ME THAT MY ETERNAL SECURITY IS IN, BY, AND THROUGH MY SAVIOUR AND MASTER JESUS, BECAUSE, HE IS THE ONLY SECURE ONE. AND MY ABBA (DADDY) FATHER, SHOWS HIS AFFECTION DAILY TO ME.
I left reformed theology for similar reasons: legalism, pietism, and reliance on works, grace that doesn’t save, unbiblical view of the sacraments, determinism, and other unbiblical, ahistorical teachings.
I found Lutheranism and now have the peace I didn’t have in reformed theology.
I left the IFB for the SBC. After yesrs if that i drfted aeay from church for a number of years. Now I attend an Anglican church and have never been happier. Jesus preserves the temnant church across denominations. I see him preserving the remnant even with all the denominations falling into progressive and eoke theology. I am not able to go back into a low church environment right now. Our church homors God's holiness, his majesty, and his grace. I feel as though i have found the church that will allow me to grow in Christ. Peace of Christ to you brother.
Years ago, I interacted with an Anglican Vicar who seemed like a really nice guy and a genuine brother. I am guessing he would be in a very small group of Anglicans that are faithful to biblical authority and their history foundations? Would this be “Anglican Church in America?”
@@63stratomanActually 85%of the Anglican community follows the Bible and traditional Orthodoxy of the Anglican church. Unfortunately the Church of England and Episcopal church of America have decided to throw this away for social issues.
Anglican worship can be high church, or it can look like an Evangelical church. My church is part of the Anglican Church in North America. It is not for everybody, but it is helping me to become more disciplined and purposeful in my worship of God.
I'll be brief but i so appreciated your message of hope and encouragement on this topic! I have been experiecing the same things and have walked away from it all (the corporate church) & whatever the call christianity today... I believe in The father, God, The Most High and his son. Jesus the christ, the messiah, but i also believe what we (believers) who are truly seeking Christ and his message of hope and reconciliation... TO THE POINT, christianity, just like judaism in jesus's day gonna be flipped upside down. Just as the pharisee's and the priest added to and changed God's word then, jesus was calling them out. I walk in a church, judgement, i visit my parents, judgement... Im already under God's judgement. I dont need any more condemnation than what my Bible says... I pray the Lord will save me in the end, because ive had it wrong for so long all while thinking the whole time i am better than ________. No one has any idea for whats coming and so many wont be ready, arent prepared, and believe they are good people, so.... Thanks man. Trying to break free from the dungeon programming, the guilt, the shame, the failure, the fear, the twisting of what christianity is today. Hate is rife in so many churches today, what good is Christ, without love.
You sound like you had a view of my past.
When my mom was converted to Christianity (I was 6 or 7), the closest church to us was an IFB church. She didn't know any better, so we (she, I and my brother) began to attend. Yep, it was typical IFB: no rock music (but country was okay), KJVO, Christianity was judged on men by whether or not they had more than just a wedding ring on, or if their hair was past their ears and collar. Jesus didn't drink wine; He drank "grape juice" (never mind that modern grape juice is only about 200 years old). Luther and Calvin did good work, but didn't go far enough in their reforms. Every non-Catholic Christian of historical note was really a Baptist. Between that and the woman my mom worked with who talked her into eventually thinking that all denominations were evil creations of men, it was a messy upbringing we had. I'm now a confessional Lutheran, and there's no way you could get me anywhere else.
'The Hammer of God' by Bo Giertz is a must read for every evangelical pastor... listening to your story reminds me of the transformation that the protagonist experienced in the book.
"The Christian is called, not to individualism but to membership in the mystical Body. A consideration of the differences between the secular collective and the mystical Body is therefore the first step to understanding how Christianity without being individualistic can yet counteract collectivism."[C S Lewis]
The IFB cult truly damaged my relationship with God.
I strayed so far that I ended up modeling for Playboy.
I am so grateful God did not turn His back on me; He delivered me from demons and is healing my heart.
I’m so grateful He forgave me and I now get to walk authentically with Him.
I still struggle and have issues with church and church people getting too close as I feel smothered. I’m sure that comes from the trauma.
Ummm so how is it a Cult? IFB believe in the Ine true God, Jesus Christ. Just because they are stricter against sin and people are not perfect in the Church doesn’t make them a Cult. Be very careful young lady calling something a cult. Because they don’t follow after a man but God. Look up what a cult is….
Same here brother, especially after I experienced the upper leadership and they didn’t see me as a Yes man
@chiefdigger5216
Some are run like cults by petty dictators in the pulpit. The notion of the 'man of God' holding sway gives rise to this and why Scripture advocates plural leadership. Lots of majoring on minors too or things Scripture is silent on that they call standards laying unnecessary burdens on believers and women in particular. Of course, not all IFB churches are like that but no denying there are those that are toxic environments with rampant spiritual abuse and other forms of abuse too that have been well documented. The Hyles-Anderson orbit has stood out in this ignominious respect.
@@chiefdigger5216I think you raise some excellent questions here. I must admit that I sometimes refer to them as a "Christian Cult" - meaning that I consider them Christian in general, but very cultic in practise. Usually we do not consider any cult to be Christian, it is true. Nevertheless, it is the cultic nature of Independent Baptists which led me to use that designation.
Notwithstanding, they are not a cult in the full blown sense that JWs and such like are. Indeed I treasure the brothers and sisters I met in that church.
Furthermore, not all churches are equal. I live in Australia 🌏🦘 and I realise that our situation is very different from that of the USA.
In addition to this, the IFB church I attended was considered the most legalistic and controlling of their "synod" in my home city in Australia.
(I know they don't use such terminology as "synods" but it doesn't change the reality of the practise. Many other churches practise congregational, autonomous government yet exist in such "synodical" arrangements for example.
So I can only speak of my own experiences + the public information openly available.
1) I saw the heavy handed practises of the "Diotrophes" style "pastor" which is condemned in 3rd John. It was later identified as skin to papal control, No better than Roman Catholicism. Christ says, "One is your master even Christ and all you are brethren"
(Matthew 23:8, 10).
My so called "pastor" chafed ahd rebelled when this admonition of the Lord was pointed out. Later, he caused his own church to split and he abandoned the flock. And later on called himself "pastor to Australia" . All without a call.
- Doctrinally, I was beginning to Prove all things and hold fast to that which is good, like those in Berea.
(Acts 17:11; 1 Thessalonians 5:21)
I began to discover major cracks in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptistical doctrines....
- I rejected Calvinism after studying their doctrines.
- But I found out that Predestination and Election not only predate Calvin, but ate thoroughly Scriptural. Indeed, Augustine, Wycliffe, Huss and Luther and even Calvin were very clear in the universal atonement. Yet they were equally clear that only the elect will be saved purely based on the grace and choice of God.
- I discovered that IFB were synergistic in that they exalt the will and choice of man in conversion
- I also learner that IFB were semi pelagian, a heresy condemned already ~ 1600 years ago. In practise most (ana) Baptists deny original sin. They have to because they have an eclectic doctrine of the salvation of children. It is not based on Scripture.
- I also came to see that their eschatology is riddled with Chiliasm. It is NOT the historic faith ahd departs from Apostolic Doctrine. The mark of all Chiliasts will not submit to the Apostolic Rules of Exposition. As such it is false and to be condemned!
- As a convinced "Baptist" I set out to prove the Baptist arguments and doctrines using the Greek New Testament. But the more I examined the Baptist "proof texts" in the light of the original texts, the more I saw their arguments collapse. And I realised that it is untrue, mostly based on the poor rendering of the KJV in those texts. Indeed, this was pointed out by the KJV translator Dr Daniel Featley back in 1642AD when he debated the world's first Baptists.
- Legalism ... It's a sad consequence of a church that produces preachers who cannot rightly distinguish Law and Gospel.
It is true that certain practises are pietistic and unfounded in Scripture. But the sheer lack of clarity on the necessity of the Gospel for Christians is the most glaring concern.
- Independent Baptists also follow Calvinism in their shallow and ungrammatical doctrine of
"eternal security".
For this reason IFB are characterised as "semi Calvinist"
Calvinist in that they hold a version of the Reformed doctrine of the perseverance of the Saints ...with many of the same "proof texts". But Calvinists point out that security is conditional upon good fruits and continuance in holiness. IFB ditch even this Scripture qualification and clarification.
But both insist falsely that a Christian cannot ultimately fall away.
- IFB are Arminian in that they reject the doctrine of Election and hold to synergistic practises such as "altar calls" and "decisions for Christ"
All of these false practises are easy to refute using Sola Scriptura in tandem with the inspired Apostolic Rules of Exposition.
The Independent Baptist "cult" is indeed one thing. And it is good that you were freed from it. But your sin is entirely your own fault. We all know when we are doing wrong. And we all must take responsibility for our sins, which are truly damnable before a holy God. When we sin we do so willingly and we are liable to damnation
(2 Timothy 2:12)
Let's take the admonition seriously:
"If / While we are sinning wilfully there is remaining no more sacrifice for sins"
(Hebrews 10:26)
"But God shall wound the head of his enemies AND the hairy scalp of such a one that goes on still in their Trespasses"
(Psalm 68:21)
"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."
(Ezekiel 33:13; Romans 8:13)
It is good that you have returned to Christ, if indeed you truly have. Just remember that God accepts us when we humble ourselves and return to him in true contrition (Isaiah 66:2; Psalm 34:18)
Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast
transgressed against the LORD thy God, and
hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under
every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my
voice, saith the LORD.
(Jeremiah 3:13)
A good question for a preacher to ask themselves: when was the last time one of my sermons changed my life? Then the killer follow up: if my preaching doesn't 10:20 change my life, why would I expect it to change anyone else's?
Greetings in Jesus Name brethren. I know IFB preachers some can be nasty and mean and will tear a struggling brother down instead of exhorting them. Not Christ like by no means. Thank you for this. The faith OF ( From ) Christ to believe in Christ which is the gift of God. Amen ( Ephesians) a wonderful book. The KJV stands alone respectfully i say. Thank and God bless you for this.
Steven / Louisiana
You are a brave man, and righteous, I congratulate you!!!
Thank you!
You are growing.
I did almost exactly the same research in 2013 after 30 years.
Makes sense why you focus on the things you do.
sometimes it is a fine line that is crossed from simply having proper moral standards and modest attire to extreme legalism...
I am IFB all the way, but my local church is pretty moderate on things like dress codes....
Mine is as well. They are wonderful ppl, seems to be isolated incidents. I came from a charismatic church where I didn't have membership, what is your opinion on not being able to participate in activities if you are not a member?
@@pilar689 Hi....
Depends on the activity, I believe. What are you thinking about? I assume you are referring to a frequent attendee who is not a member?
In our assembly you could not vote regarding "inhouse" issues, for example. Or lead the congregation in prayer.....or usher.
Some of the IFB churches I am acquainted with would not let a non member participate in the music service, except of course congregational singing.
The exceptions would be known Christians from sister congregations, as far as the music and prayers...
We will accept new members by vote, via statement of faith with or without baptismal record, if the believer testifies that he/she was baptized by immersion.
Yes, thank you...was referring to the music ministry. The pastor is being so kind and letting Mr participate in the choir however I'm not supposed to. I just don't understand having to become a member in order to be in the choir. I didn't have to do that at my old church, not sure why I take such issue to this. I've been going since 2013.
I attend a Presbyterian church for local fellowship, but have started listening in because most reformed churches have little in the way of theology education in our area. It is good to see someone explain reformed doctrine including why we have confession of sin, confession of faith, creeds, prayers, and communion in fellowship. I want to share these videos with others because I strongly disagree with rapture thinking from the first time I heard it.
Interesting me too
The teaching is new
If all the real Christians get raptured there is no hope for salvation of those left as the only reason the holy spirit here because of the Christians
When we go He goes
There is no second chances
I came out of an extremely unhealthy independent Baptist environment. They were pretty far out honestly, very isolationist, assocated with the person and/or ideology of such stellars as Fred Phelps and Peter Ruckman. I can only praise God he got me out of that to a tasting of the true freedom and life in Christ. Still struggling with some of the repercussions (and, of course, my own issues--I am a sinner, after all); I pray God opens the eyes of those still in that world.
I clicked so fast on this!
God bless.. thank you pastor.
Thank you
Have faith in the real 'Son of God'.
Nothing compares!
I spent 15 years in leadership and 5 as a regular member. I was so disappointed once I became an assistant to the pastor and began to see all the ungodly things that go on in leadership.
Jumped out of the frying pan into the fire 😂
So do you believe the gospel of John Calvin?
This was very well spoken. All of this is a problem not just in IFB churches but so many others as well. I experienced this raised in a Catholic church and I experienced it in my former church of 29 years which was reformed baptist. My eyes have been opened as I've searched for a church for the past 2 years and have visited over 25.
Is this guy speaking a Calvinist? He doesn't sound like one. Not my experience coming out of a Calvinistic church.
Yes, Theocast is Calvinist. Jon and Justin both. Recommend UA-cam channel Beyond The Fundamentals for info on stealth Calvinism which is why you can't detect Calvinism in the Theocast videos. Going from Hyles IFB into Calvinism is frying pan into the fire. I go to IFB church where the pastor and people are loving and godly and what I wear is not an issue. A lot has changed since Jon was IFB. God did some purging of the IFB. Calvinism has no grace and another gospel. Jon says, "I'm not here to talk about Calvinism". Of course not. If he told the truth, people would see how they portray God contrary to His nature, another god and another gospel that is not a gospel.
@kbuchanan2026 I've had a lot to learn the past few years after being immersed in my former church for so long. Yes, I've listened to a ton of Beyond the Fundamental videos and many on stealth calvinism. I listen to various perspectives on doctrine and theology. I am not Calvinistic in my biblical understanding. I do want to understand why others hold to different positions and interpretations. Calvinism is so pervasive that I can not find a church that is not within reasonable driving distance.
this was well said.
thank you
There are IFB’s without the influence of Jack Hylism. Beat the wolves. However, reformed theology is Protestant, ie partially catholic. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Reform IFB in the image of Christ.
Thank you. I used to live in Franklin TN, so I know the area.. God Bless
What is the name of your church are you services streamed? The is no one who understands. understand
Preach it!!
I love the IFB. What’s wrong with a foot ball coach? What about military academy? Do you rebel or resist that?
I thank Theocast for providing Scripture knowledge that really gives untold comfort. I have been on the path for a long time and been trying to understand. I have been thinking through some Biblical issues and listening to Theocast's and also views of the Dispensational perspective (Grace Ambassadors). I must say Theocast seems to be close to the position of the Dispensationalist. Here is some of what I come to conclude and may clear up confusion. It seems very obvious now, but not so before. Here is my rant. Only from Paul, Apostle to the Gentiles, do we understand Salvation Without Works. Did he receive a different gospel than the 12 Apostles? There seems to be a difference. Is there a difference between Gospel of the Kingdom and The Gospel of Grace? Was Paul just delivering the same gospel as the 12, just tweaked a little OR was Paul's Gospel totally or significantly different (Under Law vs Under Grace w/o the Law). Why was Paul appointed as an apostle in addition to the 12? Why did Jesus see his appointment necessary? Was not the Gospel of the Kingdom concerning Jews Only - Israel under the Law? Is there a difference in Jusus' earthly ministry vs his After Resurrection ministry? Paul's
Thanks for the encourment
I can relate 1000%.
what IFB believes you have to live a certain way not to go to hell?!?! I know there are some that are works based but most I know are free grace. You mentioned Jack Hyles he was definitely against works based so thats confusing.
Yeah, and I know this guy personally. He married my pastor's daughter and came to my church. We even went to the same Bible college. So he should know that NO Baptist believes in works being able to take away one's salvation. This is antithetical to Baptist doctrine. He may have grown up in a legalistic church, but our church was far from that. When he left IFB, it was our church. And he left in all the wrong ways causing a lot of hurt. He tried to bring reformed theology into our church, stirring division. It was not right what he did. All because he started going to Master's Seminary and they got to his head. He should know his Bible better. Reformed theology is NOT biblical. And I'm no longer IFB, btw. I recognize their problems, but they are very different problems than what he is alleging here. I think he is trying to paint them worse than they really are, however, there are certain groups of IFB churches that follow certain preachers, which I call the IFB cult. These churches elevate their traditional Baptist views to the same authoritative level as Scripture and they aren't even scriptural. They twist Scripture to mean what they want it to mean, and will not accept being wrong, even if you show them what the Scripture really means using proper exegesis. They refuse to accept it because it goes against everything they were indoctrinated into. The indoctrination is strong and that's why I call it a cult. Our church was not part of that cult and I still go there to visit. It is a great church.
@@rlolo777 there is always more to why people leave a church! How many people have hurt us leaving our church because of loving another doctrine . It happens. I believe brother John is a good brother and has much good to say. Thankful for the ministry but it’s interesting to see you say this
Agreed brother!
Had similar experiences with IFB.
AHHH!! The Scofield "Bible"! That's where this all goes back to! Not God and his pure word, but the words of a corrupt man! 2 Peter 3:18...But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory now and forever. Amen! Christianity is do this, don't do that! Do you want to please God or man? Jesus even said, "If you love me, keep my commandments!" Jesus also said, "...my commandments are not grievous!"
Sad to see this man fall from the grace he had been looking for!
Are you related to the Moffitts at fbc hammond?
I heard about the division and destruction that the IFB can cause when I was in Dubuque,Iowa. There was a good church there known as Dubuque Bible Church. It was growing and having a positive effect on an area that is dominated by catholicism. Some small group of people at Dubuque Bible Church got a hold of some KJV only materials and got taken it by it. They brought it in to the church and they split that church. The people they carried with them left and formed an IFB church and left the Dubuque Bible Church split,hurting,damaged and reeling. The destruction of an entire local church over something as unimportant as what Bible version was being used. That whole thing was nothing but sin. While I was attending the Dubuque Bible Church,we had a mens Bible study in a restaurant. Somebody from the IFB church that had split from DBC overheard us talking and engaged in conversation with us. He claimed that his IFB church had had an evangelistic outreach and that 96 people had been saved. But our pastor at DBC knew about the shallow evangelistic techniques of the IFB,so he asked the guy,how many of them are in church. He wouldnt answer. He said he had to go.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1 John:2:19
That is talking about denying Jesus, not leaving a theological movement
@@THEOCAST
Do you believe you can lose your salvation?
Nope
It appears Pentecostalism is the strongest growing group in the last few years.
Notably, Calvinism remains steady for now.
God bless.
Pastor John
Pentecostalism really appeals to the flesh
Which of course is our default as humans
Huh, most IFBs I have met taught Free Grace theology.
Me too. Especially the ones in the NIFB preach a hardcore salvation by grace through faith.
@@Acall2Witness the NIFB is not Free Grace, it just pretends to be it.
I hold to Free Grace theology (but not IFB), but I would never see the NIFB as brethren. Steven Anderson has made statements such as "if you believe, your faith will never waver, you will never have homosexual feelings, you will never use the name Yeshua, you will never kill" etc etc.
I don't understand how Anderson can say that a true believer cannot be murderous, even though David killed a man.
I came out of the IFB world after decades in the very center of it, so I know all of the issues. However, going from legalism to Calvinism is just moving from one cult to another. Sad…
First of all IFB is not a cult and neither is Calvinism. Unfortunately, if you don't know that then you then you don't understand what it takes to be saved.
First, thanks Jon. Much of this is so excellent and glorious. It's good to rest in the grace of the Gospel.
I had a quesiton on how you distinguish between the conditionality of convenant blessings, and pietism? Specifically, do you think that Christians experience the indicatives of justification and their union with Christ, the blessings of hoping in Christ, in ways that are conditioned on particular kinds of actions done in faith?
An example would be how we see Proverbs, particularly in light of the architecture of the book in proverbs 2, and in light of Proverbs 31, as a kind of covenant document on what the aspiring son of God, and royal Israelite, should do to enjoy YHWH's blessing- namely, normatively, mature into the kind of godly man that pursues a woman like lady wisdom. That's an example, I think Piper's book on Future Grace is great for explicit conditional grace on top of the unconditional grace of the Gospel.
Thanks.
Hebrews, as a Christian sermon, seems to be different than mere Christotelic or Christocentric preaching- which I agree has its place. But, it seems like Pauline Triune Christology includes both the indicatives and imperatives, and that the book of Hebrews seems to show us the supremacy of the Son points to the examples of the OT in Hebrews 11 seen as paradigms and lessons for embodied faith.
Hi Jon, my husband and I also grew up in the HI desert California, Apple Valley. After my husband got saved we started going to Calvary Chapel in Hesperia. May I ask, where did you live in the Hi desert?
He lived in Hesperia, his dad pastors Mountain View Baptist church
Where did you go to seminary? and did the Lord use this experience in your journey to a more reformed theology ?
No, he went to TMS and found reformed theology from reading books they were arguing against. TMS is just another brand of the IFB
@@THEOCAST TMS = IFB ????
@@jeffwatt4684 scratching my head on that also with you. I'm old enough that I used to in the 80's get MacArthur's cassette tapes every few weeks...listened to hundreds of hours of Johnny Mac, have 50 of his books. Was also in an IFB church for about a year. Also took an Abner Chou theology course out of TMS.....TMS is not a brand of IFB. Many IFB pastors and leaders, esp long ago, thought MacArthur a heretic.
@@mikeconnor4736 Thanks for the feedback brother. I thought I was losing my mind there for a moment.
IFB's "123 repeat after me" has filled churches with lost members and preachers. 😢
I grew up carasmatic church and went to various Baptist Churches ended up in a covenant theology church that wouldn't youch Bible prophecy at all and left there to go to another Baptist Church. I never been to a IFB church but that is what I believe now though. You see what the watering down of the gospel has done just to make the church money and to get people in the door.. plus it's hard to be a Dispensationalist when the word dispensation is taken out if modern translation.
Have you read and watched Michael Pearls 8 Kingdom series?
Some of the reasons I left.
-Hyper authority pastors
- Bad culture .
- Bad doctrine / Dispensationalists
- Separation from other Christians (supposed to believe IFB is only correct form of Christianity)
- rampant abuse from places like First baptist Hammond .
- idol worship/ pastor worshiping / Jack Hyles
- Legalism
-
The one thing about the IFB movement, that is completely incomprehensible to me is there dogged king James onlyism. I don’t even understand the argument. Do they find a verse in the king James Bible that says that this is the only translation of scripture that is acceptable? I don’t even know if it’s an argument for the Textus Receptus which is the basis of the king James, or if it is an argument for the reinspiration of the Bible in the English language, 1500 years after the fact even though the English language didn’t exist for over 1000 years after the Bible was written in Greek. What gives? How can otherwise intelligent people believe such nonsense? Can anyone help me with this? I mean I hear them babbling about the corruption of the modern versions, but there were English versions that preceded the king James, such as the Geneva Bible, and there were English versions after the king, James, so what’s so special about the king, James?
God promised he would preserve his word. That doesn’t say it won’t come without corruption. Use discernment when doing this study.
The preserved Bible documentary I believe may and hope will answer your questions friend.
20 years in the IFB and quite familiar with Trieber, Chappell, Hyles, and so forth. Took another 20 years to fully get over, unlearn all the bad stuff and relearning everything correctly! I am now more Independent, more Fundamental, more BAPTIST than ever for all the right reasons and based upon the right things! Yeah, there are good IFB Baptists out there but strange thing is you’d really have to press them to get them to say so plus all of the “Big Name IFB” types I mentioned would consider them to be liberal compromisers and not “true IFB”
To summarize, the IFB crowd we are both speaking of exemplify horrible teaching at best and are potentially false teachers as well as false accusers! Tell them I said so.
Concerning youth pastors...there's a book called A Weed in the Church by Scott T Brown about age segregation in the church. Worth a read.
I'm always leary of someone that takes a half hour to explain their new found enlightenment??
I'll pray for you
I prayed for you. God bless you brother.
You could spend hours on this subject
I knew it. He's from First Baptist Church of Hammond
This sounds really good and it's in part true, the only problem is that there are also those verses that you say aren't taught in Scripture as well, somebody please explain to me who JESUS is speaking to in the 4 warnings on readiness that are mentioned at the end of Matt 24, starting in vs 42 through the end of Chapter 25. It seems HE'S talking to HIS disciples and those parables seem to be speaking against backsliding, lukewarmness, inactivity and lack of good works. 3 out of 4 use language of perdition as the consequence. I am not arguing but sincerely asking. What about Romans 8:13?, James mentioning in 2:24 that we're justified by works and not faith alone? JESUS saying in John 15 that the FATHER takes away the branches that don't produce fruit? Please someone respond.
When trying to understand passages of scripture, there is an important principle that needs to be applied…..Context….let this guide you. “Without a context, all you have is a pretext, used to support a presupposition”. In your reference in Matt. Jesus is speaking about what He will judge on, and it reflects backs to what Jesus told them about love, ( the greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God…etc) and the second is Love your neighbor as yourself. God’s undeserved favor (grace) His love and mercy are meant to be our motivation, we are to reflect (demonstrate) the love shown to us back to the world. Will we ever be perfect at it…no, but it’s by his grace we stand through faith.
A very similar story to mine.
You are spot on, it is grace that teaches us to say no to sin.
Titus 2:11
One thing… as Christians we are no longer “sinners”. We are saints who hopefully sometimes sins. We sin less and less as we learn and grow in Jesus by His grace.
Check out Andrew Farley.
Reformed Baptist would be the route to go. I cant see how anyone once enlightened regarding believers baptism could turn presbyterian due to baptising babies despite their otherwise sound theology
Jon Pastors a reformed Baptist church, theocast is a reformed Baptist ministry
Is IFB _Free Grace_ Theology?
Correction : The Independent "FUNNY Mentalist" Baptist Movement. These guys are mentally off to say th least! Starting with the Granddaddy of them all Jack Hyles.
Dude I work with a guy that's this style and he's so annoying
Dudes fucking insane and believes drums are from the devil
I’m not going to a church that refuses to step in my toes.
My grievance with ifb church is the use if scofield reference bible leading to false doctrine regarding the timing of the so named rapture and more importantly the support for modern day Israel and Judaism. These things are not caused by the use of KJV bible. Anybody that alters Gods word will be punished and there is a long list of such heretics.
It’s the grumpiness and the railing from the pulpit that ruins the IFB. Some good teaching but man are they cranky.
The problem I have with the IFB is the rampant insensitivity toward the blind and visually impaired the movement produces. They tell you that a KJV Bible is absolutely necessary for spiritual growth, but none of them are willing to provide KJV Bibles in Braille. Bible apps are usually not accessible to those of us who use screen readers, but if I say that, they’ll say I’m making excuses for why blind believers don’t read the Bible. There also seems to be a stigma surrounding blind believers having assurance of salvation and growing spiritually in that environment.
Braille Bibles are an essential for a blind or low vision believer. Im sorry for the experience you went through. Hopefully more Braille Bibles in all formats will be available soon. I am becoming a Braille Transcriptionist to help in this.
Wow! praise the Lord!
@Broketoblessed What do you think about the stigma attached to blind and visually impaired believers having assurance of salvation, lack of discipleship resources for the blind, and disability rights in the church? Are you aware of these things?