What this uncontacted tribe can teach us about states
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
- Does every human being need the protection of a state? This centuries-old question has baffled political scientists for a very long time. Both the idea of the perfect state and the idea of complete freedom from the state have been romanticized by famous scholars, including Thomas Hobbes and Jean Jacques Rousseau. But will we ever find an answer to this theoretical question?
In this video, we try to do exactly that by looking at a group of human beings which seemingly have no need for a state at all: uncontacted tribes, which live lives as extremely isolated hunter-gatherers in the most inaccessible regions of Africa, Asia and South America. We examine how they have fared without the state throughout history while focusing on the Sentinelese, the infamous isolated natives of North Sentinel Island, which has often been described as India’s forbidden island.
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Music:
No.7 Alone With My Thoughts (by Esther Abrami)
Infados (by Kevin MacLeod) is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 licence. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Source: incompetech.com/music/royalty-...
Artist: incompetech.com/
Clouds (by Huma-Huma)
No.1 A Minor Waltz (by Esther Abrami)
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Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
0:18 The purpose of the state
1:30 Uncontacted tribes
1:57 North Sentinel Island
2:33 History of the Sentinelese
5:06 What can they teach us?
7:01 Conclusion
7:29 Outro
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Sources:
Dorn, Harold; McClellan, James E. III (2006) Science and Technology in World History : An Introduction. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press.
Hay, Colin; Lister, Michael; Marsh, David (2006) The State : Theories and Issues. Houndmills, Basingstoke, Hampshire, New York: Palgrave Macmillan.
Pandya, Vishvajit (2009) In the Forest : Visual and Material worlds of Andamanese history (1858-2006). Lanham: University Press of America.
Hobbes, Thomas (1651) Leviathan: Or the Matter, Forme, & Power of a Common-wealth Ecclesiasticall and Civill.
Holmes, Bob (2013) How many uncontacted tribes are left in the world.
McGirk, Tim (1993) Islanders running out of isolation: Tim McGirk in the Andaman Islands reports on the fate of the Sentinelese.
Nuwer, Rachel (2014) Anthropology: The sad truth about uncontacted tribes.
Rickett, Oscar (2013) Human Safari Tribe: Tourists threaten the existence of the Andaman Islands' Jarawa natives.
SurvivalInternational (2018) The Sentinelese. Retrieved from: www.survivalinternational.org... sentinelese
Wight, Martin (1960) Why is there no International Theory?
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#northsentinelisland #states #politicaltheory
Without the protection from State of India it's safe to say that the Sentinelese wouldn't be around any longer.
Thought the same thing, even if they aren't incorporated into the state of India, India gives them protection via extending laws over their land.
@@Kongajinken they don’t really put laws over there land they give laws to there people not to go there or near it
Idk unless people went there in juggernaut suits anyone trying to would be quickly shot with arrows
@@gothicgolem2947 laws aren’t only for Indians, those are laws for everyone
@@uekvowzkaebbzuvrgipqxhemmwbhe not the sentinelese
>First people they made contact with were the Bri'ish
>Extremely xenophobic and aggressive towards people from the outside
Can we really blame them?
>Br*tish arrive
>Take your grandparents/elders to some place unknown to you so you'll never see them again
>leaves token gifts but where is grandma and grandpa
yeah, I don't blame them.
@@F22onblockland more like industrial junk, useless to the sentinelese
Not at all
@@ComradeHellas i think they'd like some shoes or steel knife
Lol
With how "connected" and globalised everything is today, it's actually good to know there are people who I cannot visit.
You can but they might eat you.
@@RubenKelevra they don't eat other people..they're not cannibals however you'll probably be killed in hail firing of arrows.
@@Mr.Universe you know this why? It's pretty common for tribes at this stage to rely on cannibalism of foreigners as kind of revenge.
@@RubenKelevra no its not common knowledge because it isn't common...you're making things up.
@@Mr.Universe yeah sure. History is full of cannibalism examples. Thomas Baker for example and 7 of his followers were eaten.
Uncontacted tribes in general, especially the Sentinelese, can only exist due to their intense isolation. Without it, they’d have already been wiped out, or integrated into a state. Maybe they’d have their own state. Regardless, it’s interesting to think about these things
Ironically, it is the modern state that also affords these tribes protection
They also require some form of geographic isolation, like water or dense jungle.
Paradis island.
@@orkoskang7967 All my homies pledge allegiance to Eldia
@@EthanDyTioco eldians down 80% L bozos
It can be argued that uncontacted tribes themselves constitute a "state". Most tribes usually do have a leader or an equivalent of some sort who makes decisions about affairs of the tribes like contributions to the tribe, protection from outsiders etc.
So arguably they too are protected by a state of sorts
Another interesting thought is: would the currently present uncontacted tribes survive the modern world without the protections and safeguards of huge states that they never even will know about?
It is like an rarely seen/unseen alien species protecting earth from from more serious implications of the universe
I was also thinking the same
Those forms of political organization are called chiefdoms which are considered sometimes considered proto-states.
Although there are forms of political organization that in my opinion are not states the way we understand we think of them as, they still have some type of leadership structure.
Even anarchists believe that society will be governed by a federation of worker councils that appoint delegates that could be removed from power at any time the workers would want.
@@hamizanyunos1502 Yeah most anarchist documentaries I have seen, they say "Anarchy is not lack of rules but lack of rulers"
The only problem with human nature is that eventually in lack of power someone will rise to even a slightly higher level of power given the chance, which is maybe why we see so many cults evolve from anarchist communes. Not saying it happens a lot but it isn't uncommon either
@@OptimisticNihilist15 I have not seen much cults develop from anarchist communes. Some of the polities that anarchists support such as Rojava and Zapatistas in Chiapas but even then those societies have council structures and popular assemblies that rely on majority voting decisions.
However Zapatista in Chiapas are rely on decentralized communities with worker cooperatives and agricultural networks.
@@hamizanyunos1502 Yeah I know like I said it isn't common but given enough time someone or the other wants to gain a little more influence, does some deals and gains followers, then soon enough they have enough power to alter decisions. Most communes haven't been old enough for the moral corruption to set in
I was just telling that humans however primitive or advanced are in my opinion creatures that struggle to maintain a society in which there is no clear ruler. We are ingrained like many other higher animals including primates to either lead or to follow. While we can definitely try to break this behaviour, it is not going to be easy
An american:- let me introduce u to Jesus
Sentinelies:- we have the same plan
I am glad that India is providing protection and safety so that they can maintain sovereignty. It would’ve been terrible if they weren’t and had to face unwanted visitors.
We have to or we will get some pretty bad press
They are eventually going to go extinct at one point. Indian government is going to capitalize on it a lot just to be around it I bet later on if they are smart enough.
@@gabbar51ngh are you an oracle?
So you're saying a bunch of stone age tribesmen can't protect themselves against guns and motor vehicles?
@@Raz3Raldo Oracle? Their population is diminishing & easily susceptible to diseases.
It's like watching a man on his last moments & speculating he would die based of how severely ill he is.
Unless the tribe is opened upto modern world in some sense they would go extinct in some manner sooner.
Recently, two of the last members of an uncontacted tribe died here in Brazil. The rest of their tribe was totally murdered 30 years ago by men hired by a large farmer who wanted to take their land. These uncontacted tribes, and the other indigenous peoples too, are suffering a genocide process here, and something needs to be done.
Yeah nothing can be done, all you can do is mourn and grieve
“here in Brazil”
Well, that explains everything.
Well get your hands on guns start a militia and say to any one who’s ants to take their land say you have to go through us before you can your land.
But I’m pretty sure that’s a bit hard to do
Sério isso cara? A mídia falou alguma coisa?
@@CeoMacNCheese That would be actually a good Idea If the local residents of the North had the resources to do that. Or the indigenous peoples.
Sadly only the big farmers arround there have much more resources, so thats why they are the ones with armed militias, the called jagunços.
Going to fight them in the Amazon rainforest is something that only the army can do. And they used to try, but when Bolsonaro came to power, he aligned with these farmers and stoped almost all the operations to protect the indigenous peoples.
The andamanese and sentinelese DO have a state; though they are unaware of it. The Republic of India provides them protection. The Indian government has civil law, maritime law, tourism, public contract law…etc. for these islands, and protects the territories from foreign threats. The islanders are simply not aware of any of it.
I would say they're more protected by their own violence to people who come to their islands. I mean, the reason for their isolation is more so because they enforce it through violence rather than Indian laws made to protect newcomers from that violence. If they did not fiercely protect their own autonomy, India would not make those laws just like India doesn't make laws protecting any other ethnic groups in it's country and islands against outside visitors.
@@tylersmith3139 if india did not provide protection there would not just be random 1 or 2 people going to the island to die, the island would be absorbed into some polity by force by a group of more than 1.
@@tylersmith3139 do you really think that some randos with arrows could survive against any incursion without the protection of the Indian state?
@@tylersmith3139 yes and no. India protects these islands as a mark of respect to the inhabitants. If not, more stupid people like Chau would try to destroy them. During the 2004 tsunamis, an Indian Navy helicopter went to check om Sentinelese. They threw javelins. India has made stringent laws to protect these precious people.
@@Tidalx China: It's free real estate?
Murica: Does it have oil and can I store my ICBM's there?
Fun fact: after a boat crashed near North sentinel island, the sentinelese appareantly discovered iron, and now advanced into the Iron age.
😂Lol.. They might be reached Diamond age till now
Bro i got your Civ joke, sadly no one else did.
Iron Age Unlocked
@@glorioustigereye Fucking finally
@St. Haborym shh RELATIVITY is a word to know. That's like asking someone to get water from Mars man.
It's s 1 island & they got their hands on it! Fuxk off with that negativity lmao that shit is a game changer for them.
Arnt these villagers technically Indian since India owns the island? And thus are in fact protected by a state!
Technically yeah
But they don't know.
Also India is a not an ethinicity, it's a collection of diffrent races, religion and unique and different Indian Subcontinent kingdoms United in a democratic and secular institution.
Sentinelese have similarities with Negroites found in Indian states of Andaman.
@@Roachh2877 I didn’t say they were ethnically Indian. But if they’re from Indian territory they are Indian. Just like if your from a part of the US your American!
I would argue that while they are under _protection_ from the Indian state, they are not directly governed by them. So, like an autonomous stateless region with a large and powerful state to keep anyone from messing with their society.
@@StuffandThings_
A protectorate
@@kayzeaza Legally they have Indian citizenship, but they are not Indians in any meaningful sense; India is a foreign civilization to them. Imagine our galaxy is actually part of the Interdimensional Federation of Zigzagzingathon or something like that and we are a tiny backwater planet no one knows or cares about and we are ignorant of the rest of the universe. Technically you are a Zigzagzingathinian citizen, but do you feel Zigzagzingathinian? If Zigzagzingathonians landed and said their IRS has noticed you haven't been paying taxes would you feel an obligation to? If Zigzagzingathon got into a war with the Stellar Republic of Luxmuxmania would you care? Would you swell with pride when the Zigzagzingathinian anthem is sung in an alien language? Probably not, and that's probably how they feel about being called Indian.
The Andaman and Nicobar (Protection of Aboriginal Tribes) Regulation, 1956 provides protection to the Sentinelese and other native tribes in the region. The Andaman and Nicobar Administration stated in 2005 that they have no intention to interfere with the lifestyle or habitat of the Sentinelese and are not interested in pursuing any further contact with them or governing the island.Although North Sentinel Island is not legally an autonomous administrative division of India, scholars have referred to it and its people as effectively autonomous or independent.
Yeah north sentinel island is effectively its own country the north sentinels can do whatever they what arnt effected by outside laws apart from that they protect them and they don’t have to pay tax
@@gothicgolem2947 And India dosent even concentrate on developing that area. 😅
@@An_ony_mous well yeah it’s preety much a independent country yes it’s apart of India but the only thing they do is protect the island
Of course the Sentinel island is pretty much it's own state, sort of an enclave within India, which overlooks it's protection.
I hope the authorities manage to contact them once again somehow.
Not suggesting that they integrate them into the Indian state but just check up on them you know? Might as well help with something they troubled with.
@@ARCISX idk about that it risks deadly diseases hitting them
It's really easy. Humans don't need a state. But humans in a fairly prosperous stateless situation will have a growing population. Thus a growing population density. Thus leading to more interpersonal friction. Thus a state becomes necessary.
In some way you could see the Sentinelese as their own state, enjoying the protection of India.
Clearly they have a collective "army" which in our terms I suppose would be called almost lifelong conscription.
They probably have some social culture in which they share things but also are supposed to carry their own weight.
And I wouldn't be surprised if they have a "leader" of sorts.
The only reason you need a state is to protect you from other states.
It's not as nuanced as you think it is.
@@maxpulido4268 Well you only need a state to protect you from other POWERS. Imagine a powervacuum of a nation; Another nation might try take over it's land; But then imagine they won't because it's to hard to control; There's a reason it'd be too hard to control. Any type of group may at some point exert control. Old political parties, coalition of gunowners, a collection of neighbors, a company (which might now hire armed security). I always kinda wonder how Anarchists think it would work. In an anarchist world the strongest and richest rule. And that in turn would TODAY make the strongest form a corporation, and a corporation which is stronger than any other and stops at nothing to crush their opponents. Next to the fact that in todays world there'll simply be some group to pick up the slack and take it all over.
@@NLvideomaster as an anarchist by principle its one of the biggest problems that i cant come up with a solid solution too. Which is part of why im more closely a libertarian. But first of all you seem to think anarchism has a right leaning view on economics when original anarchism is based on left leaning principles and favors common ownership over private property. But even then it remains a problem if anybody chose to not follow an anarchist thought they are automatically going to be a potential threat to anarchist in general. So as an anarchist you cant truly want all hierachy or systems to break apart, because that would threathen the existence of anarchy. Its a hard dilemma and most anarchist dont believe in no stucture, they just believe in minimizing it to the smallest amount possible. So if it means assembling a centralized Army to keep the principles of anarchy protected anarchist will probably do it, even if it conflicts with an anarchy. Again its a dillema which will have people go against principles because of practical reasons.
Watch Mad Max
I had to write an anthropological research paper on the Islanders of the largest Andaman Island, and I wish they got more attention than the Andamanese. They are very interesting people.
One incredibly unique and interesting trait of the Great Andamanese is that their society is organized into linguistic tribes, which are further divided into smaller local groups. Their whole society is organized around language rather than lineage or land. I wish they weren't turned into a mere tourist attraction for people going on vacation.
Interesting, tell me more
I think one thing we can learn from them is that their reaction to contact from the "outside world" is analagous to what humanity's reaction would be to other intelligent life in the galaxy. For all intents and purposes, British ships showing up at North Sentinel island is like UFOs showing up above Delhi.
2:54 - The first contact between the Sentinelese and the outside world occurred either in 1771, or 1867, depending on your definition. 1771 was the year John Ritchie spotted lights upon the island's shore, and 1867 was the year the Nineveh wrecked on the island. In either case, Portman’s 1880 (I believe this is the one you are referring to) expedition was not the first contact.
6:21 - A very salient point. Even the few remaining peoples today living without knowledge of states can continue to exist only by those states’ consent and protection
7:08 - Fantastic conclusion.
After spending the past few months combing through seemingly endless videos simply rehashing the general Sentinelese story, you can imagine how wonderfully relieving it is to encounter a video that takes the Sentinelese tale and uses it to make a broader point. Well played.
Thank you for your kind words, I'm glad you enjoyed the video! And thanks for the correction, I must have missed the events before 1880.
I love that the Indian government realized that they could be putting them at risk by even coming in contact with them and just left them alone to do their own things. I feel like as a society we’ve gotten to used to being exposed to all this information that we can’t seem to let go not having the information. So I’m really glad to see someone prioritized life over research
In English common law it used to be that one could be declared an Outlaw. If this was done, said person could be killed by anyone without consequences. That's what it means to be without the protection of a state. Prior to the development of states, there was no legal system, but there were still consequences for murder: the victim's family would seek revenge. States supersede the victim's family and transform revenge into justice (or at least Law), and in so doing end the cycle of revenge between families (this the classical justification for the State). With no state protection, it is as if the victim has no family, and thus can be killed without consequence.
"That's what it means to be without the protection of a state."
Not really, to be an outlaw you are publicly viewed as a criminal and will be targeted as such. If for some reason the State disappeared suddenly, communities would not suddenly consider it open season to fight each other. Rather, they would go on with their lives and protect themselves from criminals. Legal disputes would be handled under the jurisdiction of a judge considered authoritative by both parties, and law would resume without the state.
@Zorro9129 if one side had a stronger force of violence than the other, why would the stronger side agree to see a judge in the first place?
@@jodhod1498 Because unilateral use of force indicates one is acting outside the law, therefore an outlaw, and others will ostracize or even attack.
The centralized entity of some form (ie government body) is a really powerful tool, you can live without it but you will have a huge disadvantage against those who have it especially if you have a large population, larger than face-to-face small group cooperation.
Actually this is not true , imagine how covid was able to infect ppl on every continent , so if covid was more dangerous like apocalypse movies than Earth would have been wiped out , solution humans need unite in diversity , diversity needs to be protected unitedly
@@VivekKumar-rb7zk do you live in the 19th century ? Honestly, where did it work ?
@@VivekKumar-rb7zk We talk about governing body, not people diversity.
In Covid case, the government is one of the most powerful tools to combat pandemics as you can effectively organize vaccine distribution or quarantine nationwide without government.
Shaddup, Fed
@@VivekKumar-rb7zk Except reality isn't an apocalypse movie, it's reality. If Covid were an actual threat to humanity(like the Black Plague, or Smallpox) countries would have shut down much faster, and it would have been a lot easier to contain it, as the infected would be dying instead of spreading it.
On the other hand, if it weren't for the United Nations/Geneva Convention/western morals, these tribes would have most likely already been exterminated, as most countries would enjoy having more land.
Of course they don't have a state, but they do have some form of governance right? I think what really matters is not the existence of a state itself (or lack there of) but rather if a form of governance exist.
It's not really clear if they have a system of government or not. There are only between 50 and 100 of them, so it is possible that they wouldn't need one due to their small size. During the time period in which the Indian govt interacted with them face-to-face, there didn't seem to be any readily-identifiable 'chieftain', at least not that the anthropologists could discern.
@@ramseykeilani9569 If there are so few of them, how aren't they destroyed by inbreeding?
@@islanoliveira I wouldn't be at all surprised if they had at least a couple serious congenital issues. This being said, while we talk of them being isolated for 20,000 years, they've only been truly, completely isolated for about 150 years. Prior to the arrival of the British, and the subsequent extermination of many of the Andaman peoples, its thought that the Sentinelese had at least some contact with the other tribes of the archipelago, which would have provided the occasional influx of new genes. It's only in the last 150 years that this has ceased. It'll most likely take at least a few more centuries for whatever congenital defects they most likely have to grow serious enough to threaten the viability of the population.
@@islanoliveira They probably cull those who are born with disabilities so to not pass congenital diseases forward.
@@caracaes Oh, I haven't thought about that but it makes sense, some tribes in Amazon do this.
It is fascinating but I still fail to understand how your channel itself keeps being so isolated on UA-cam. Why didn’t it develop like the Egyptians ?
Visiting Sentinel Island Inhabitants would be like imagining an Alien Race hovering over our City. They don't have any Concept of Present Society. So in this case we would be like some Alien Race coming into their Island World.
There's a possibility they are one earliest migrants out of Africa, that would mean 50,0000 - 70,000 years of genetic drift from the rest of Humanity. In a way we are an alien race compared to them.
@@Jesus-rp3kr While that is true, they are still homo-sapiens (as we all migrated at fairly the same time or in similar times) and thus genetically we could still procreate and produce viable offspring which would indicate that we aren't really like aliens to them on the biological level that you illustrate as no alien would be able to do as such with us. But phenotypically, yes we are different, and societal structure-wise and technology-wise we are far ahead due to unparalleled sharing of knowledge over a vast population-stock and history.
@@Jesus-rp3kr It's accepted that the Sentinelese arrived to the island about 26,000 years ago, about the same time that the nearby Adamanese islands were also inhabited, something that was stated in the video. And in the subsequent years it stands to reason they most likely had some sort of limited interaction with tribes from the Andaman Islands.
But they have a state, they just don’t interact with it. The fact that the rest of the world recognizes India’s sovereignty over the islands, and India has instituted a non engagement policy is what allows them to maintain their way of living. If there was no state, or there current had a different policy they would either be assimilated or wiped out.
The same goes for all of the other uncontacted tribes. They all fall within the globally recognized sovereignty of a country, which has maintained a policy of leaving them alone. And it won’t last forever.
Those tribes can work as chiefdoms. They're connected and dependent on the land they inhabit and also they're not overpopulated. Large cities like New York, Frankfurt and Krakow will never fiction without a government though, the land is consumed by buildings and streets while there's the necessity of a running currency, energy and electricity, none of these things being useful in that remote island.
What a random assortment of cities
Also all of those cities require a massive amount of food and material. None of which would arrive without protection on the roads, or even the roads themselves
Missionary: WOLOLO!
Sentinalese: *Blots out sun with arrows*
Regarding the Sentinelese, I dont view them as having no state... it is simply that their state is small/primitive/currently unknown to us.
I mean I doubt that they are all anarchists who accidentally all decided to band together to repel the invaders with bows and arrows. There is probably some chief or council of elders in there somewhere... which makes decisions.
Regarding the "every individual requires the protection of a state" quote... I'd add to it by saying that "every individual requires the protection of a state...so as to be safe from other states".
There is a reason that nations/empires wax and wane around some sort of an equilibrium with their neighbours/rivals. As ones strength grows so too does its rivals in order to defend against it. This is over decades obviously but there hasnt and will never be an all powerful super empire which forever rules everything.
PS Rule Britannia.
You confuse state for organization, there are possible solutions of stateless societies without social classes. A council of everyone included.
@@velnz5475
What you just described... is a state.
@@gustaveliasson5395 "an organized political community under one government" *can* be considered a state, but a people without a singular government or concept of governance at all could be classified as a stateless society. Lets say aliens showed up on the border of several countries... all the people in the immediate vicinity repel and fight off the aliens. Does that make all those people a state? Now the question of if these people use state like systems is another thing, but lose cooperative organization does not always imply a state is there.
"Rule Britannia"
How is post Brexit going on with petrol rationing, foodless shelves, and man power shortage and with UK being weakest in power in a 1000 year? 🤣
@@velnz5475 "a people without a singular government or concept of governance at all could be classified as a stateless society."
Can you give me a historical example of the above? the only thing I could think of would be gypsies of some sort - but just because they move liberally about the place doesnt mean that the societies they move through are stateless.
"Lets say aliens showed up on the border of several countries... all the people in the immediate vicinity repel and fight off the aliens. Does that make all those people a state?"
No it doesnt make those people or their organisation a state...but it also doesnt mean that there isnt a state (or states plural) in existence... so IMO, the hypothetical falls short of making the point you want it to.
Also worth mentioning things like deaths from violence are much higher in basically all non state societies
You must be talking about the north sentinel island tribe in the east of india.
Yeah.....
No shit...
@@slalehc5194 why?
@@slalehc5194 watched the video?
no shit sherlock
As an Indian Army officer.. I'm thankful to you for bringing this awareness 👍
@EL AUTENTICO did you bomb your neighborhood this morning?
Thank you for your service
Other countries "let's leave them alone"
China, if they get the chance: "Oh wow they *suddenly disappeared!! that's odd..."*
It would be most countries really.
USA, Russia, Brtian, France or even China wouldnt hesitate to have the islands if the hint of reaources were available.
India not doing it is surprising but also not considering that they do control the surrounding islands. So currrently the Indian Government has no intrest in islands as of now.
The futuer Indian government might show intrest and might do something. But hoping my gov wont.
Fun fact, when the people of North Sentinel inhabited the island some 55,000 years ago during the out of Africa migration - Neanderthals were still walking the Earth until 40,000 years ago, and even in Gibraltar, there were small enclaves of them until about 29,000 years ago. It puts a lot of it into perspective for how long the people of North Sentinel island have been uncontacted for.
The gradual expansion of power of the state is an inevitable process in my opinion. Humans who specialise their skills are far more efficient and the state serves to coordinate their skills in a way which wouldn't be possible in a stateless society.
It's the main reason I believe anarchy is impossible. A stateless society can't field efficient armies and coordinate in the same way a society under the rule of a state can. Therefore stateless societies are doomed to be conquered unless given mercy by the state that would conquer.
And a society that exists by the mercy of other states is almost certainly doomed.
The state does not coordinate society at all. All the state does is extract resources from people under the threat of extreme violence.
On the question of militaries you only need to look at Afghanistan, where both the USSR and NATO, the two greatest military powers in recent history, had faced terrible defeats at the hands of abunch of goat herders.
@@Commander034 If all states did, was to force you to give them resources while punishing them if they don't abide, states would fall faster than they could rise. Humans understandably don't like having their stuff taken away without any benefits to them. Look at the American revolution if you want an example for this. Yes, some states can be very unfair, but states exist to take resources and allocate them better than every individual could. Could you build a road all by yourself? I don't think so. Is it useful for you to have a road? Absolutely.
Yes, the USSR and NATO did get beaten by the Taliban. But calling them a bunch of goat herders or suggesting that they are stateless is wrong. Afghanistan still is governed by a state, even after the Taliban took full control.
@@artemis_fowl44hd92 Exactly. Though I might dispute that the Taliban actually "defeated" NATO. They waited for us to leave and then came out of their hiding spots. The Afghan army went down without a fight and the Taliban have now re-established most brutal states in the world.
It's kind of sickening that leftists smugly view it as some sort of victory over "American imperialism" when Afghan women are now back to being treated like cattle. Oh they'll fight for gay rights and racial equality back home, but everywhere else in the world it's just their culture to be brutal religious nut jobs.
@@artemis_fowl44hd92 "muh roads" I stopped reading there.
Newsflash, laying pavement isn't hard. Toll roads and private roads exist everywhere on earth and are better maintained than public roads.
You are basically calling for absolute totalitarianism since you believe the government is better at making decisions than individuals. You can look at the communist states to see how that thinking turns out.
Individuals know what they need and choose what is best for themselves, governments are not capable of doing so and are incentivized to steal from the individual at every moment.
Governments do not produce any products or value, they have to contract out everything to private individuals.
Great video as always
Why you here?
@@ajarofmayonnaise3250 hes trying to cope with being ethinically bosniak idk
Finalt a video about Baffin island
No it's about north senital Island which is part of Andaman and nicobar islands(india)
Aren't they being protected by the state though? Isn't going to that island forbidden by law?
Not any more
Well that went in a direction I didn't expect. Great work!
They didn't get to agricultural age, so state is not necessary yet
Also they are probably too less people to need a state
I find kind of ironic how this people are protected from any crime because it is their culture but if some terrorist attack happens it is condemned although it is part of the culture.
A Terrorist is supposed to know better. Some Stone Age tribe can't really be blamed
The tribe did not know that the missionary was peaceful. As far as they knew he was going to murder them.
I agree, shitty human logic. Every terrorist should be punished accordingly to what they have done.
Yha i mean if you're at a home and a pink human looking thing walks up and opens your door and starta taking your family members tries to talk to you and leaves with what they have. You jever see your loved ones again. A few years later, a pink man,different shade, comes nearing your house. You remember what happened all that time back, the pink man, your family, and you take a shotgun or any conversational weapon and you run up to a safe distance. You manage to kill the man. You don't know what he was there for but knowing that he was a pink man and last time a pink came, you lost some family. Never again
@@covenawhite4855 I mean I understand why they killed him, could you imagine living through that time seeing random choppers flying over you and people looking way different than you or anybody you've ever known? Not to come off the wrong way of course, I just understand their perspective; it's the equivalent of what we see as extraterrestrial aliens.
Loving the little details like pictures of cheese at Franceball's home.great video!
Thanks for the excelent work! Greetings from Brazil
I loved the video, but I wish that the anarchist perspective was better explored. It just seemed like the video made the argument that the state was necessary or preferable without ever exploring alternatives or analyzing the flaws of the state. I would love a video that analyzed the pros and cons of both anarchism and the state.
Anarchism is not something that would last long. It requires that the people making it up agree to abide by anarchsim and live relatively peaceful, but an outside power such as a state, or a group forming within the anarchist community, would be able to bring more firepower to bear than individuals uniting for common defense.
Anarchists, funnily enough, require a state to live in, or else they would get their shit kicked in by other states that wanted their resources/had a problem with them.
@@MnemonicHack anarchist don't believe in isolated zones with no states. At least not most of them. Anarchism is an international ideology that believes in achieving stability through balance and force. An anarchist would argue that nobody would want to bring back the state because it would not be in the interest of the people (who hold the power) In the same way that there is no democracy that has been destroyed because the people voted for the monarch. They also don't believe in pacifism so if anybody did try to bring about a state through force they would be stopped by force as well.
@@puddleglum9179 Anarchism is international idiocy that would never work in the real world, just the same as communism. They can argue anything they want, but that doesn't mean I have to give whatever they say any credence. "The people who hold the power" as in who? That's what we call a state.
So if anarchism intends to prevent the forming of a state, then it's not anarchism, it's enforced political isolation. Subjugation. A group, no matter if they claim they're anarchists, imposing their will on another group by seeking to dismantle efforts of that group to collectivize, is simply an authoritarian isolationist state of their own. A core of "anarchists" with power will be the ones who're deciding what's allowed and what's not, and guess what? That's a state.
@@MnemonicHack I'm not even an anarchist but It find very telling that almost everyone who opposes it knows absolutely nothing about it.
It's a nearly 200 year old academic theory that has been debated and built upon by some of the greatest minds in political science, with hundreds of models that vary from marxist style communism to anarcho capitalism but when people think about it they can only image a college kid throwing a brick at a police wall.
I just want people to think more critically about the systems we live under and the dichotomy between the state and anarchism is an interesting way to analyse the role of the state and explore philosophical concepts, but I can never have that conversation because anarchism is concently being misrepresented and redefined and most people are only turned off to it by its inflammatory language. Give me an hour and I could probably convince a trump supporter to be an anarchist, i would only have to not mention the word anarchy.
@@puddleglum9179 Considering I'm a Trump supporter, feel free to try. I'm not opposed to changing my mind, I just know enough about the political theory that I'm fairly certain I won't.
I entirely invite you to try though.
Great Video!
But about the Anarchism part, it's important to add that there is a difference between Anarchism, and absolute Anarchism.
'normal' Anarchists believe that the State has to much power, and the representatives of the State don't represent the will of the People.
These Anarchists don't want complete chaos, rather smaller sub-states, also called communes. These would still function like the normal state
in the most parts, but there isn't one mega state that controlls everything.
To be fair, there was were incidents that caused the Sentinelese to stop trusting outsiders. They were right to refuse contact.
The Sentinelese may be descendants of the first migrants out of Africa.Although they may look like Africans,they are actually one of the farthest relatives to Africans,after undergoing tens of thousands of years of genetic drift.
Uhh i cant belive u only have 40k subs, i feel like wanting to make 1m account just to suscribe u
Nice analysis
Congrats
Would a state be well described as a tribe of tribes?
I think of tribes as being akin to a pride of lions, or a wolfpack, or a group of chimpanzees. They all have hierarchies, leaders, obligations, social rules, territory, etc. But they do not have a state. The state is an impersonal institution used by people to control an area of land. The tribe is social network based on kinship which is concerned with securing resources for its members. I feel like the transition to a state begins when the tribe goes beyond merely managing itself and defending its territory to subjugating other tribes and taking their territory, imposing rules to control and exploit them.
Hmmm... I wonder what would happen if they found out that the island has extremely valuable resources?
The island is less than 100 km^2 in area. What can you possibly find in it.
@@ganeshasanvad7613 Bananas👍
@@wellwell5483 return to monke
Do you know what, it's expected that around as high as 3000 trillion cubic metres of Methane hydrates (much much much higher than global conventional natural gas reserves of 190 trillion cubic metres) and around 1,200 billion barrels of oil (slightly less than modern day world reserves) is present beneath the Andman and Nicobar Archipelago spread over an area of 54,000 aware kilometers. And more interestingly, the overall area of Andman and Nicobar Archipelago (including Continental shelf is around a 1,000,000 square kilometers.
But due to American, European and Gulf's influence on Indian Government, it never started drilling.
However the present day Government had started that even though on a minor scale, but it's increasing gradually. There are 22 blocks which are expected to be auctioned by the Indian Government to private companies. Out of this 5 blocks were given the final clearance to be auctioned. Out of this, 2 have already been auctioned and oil drilling is going on. And at maximum capacity, 10 million barrels of oil can be pumped out of a single block every day at maximum capacity. For a comparison, US total daily oil production is 14 million barrels per day.
Not just Not just oil and Natural gas, this whole island group has huge reserves of many metal reserves too. If India even exploits a fraction of this untapped reserve, it would give a huge boost to Indian economy.
@@krishnkant9477 holy sh*t
The thing is that even the uncontacted tribes must have some sort of organization controlling them, even if we wouldn't understand how it works. Lack of a force with the monopoly on violence is nothing more than anarchy, which The Sentinelese clearly are not.
But that is really besides the point. I am sure there is some sort of governing structure of the tribe.
The point is the Indian government‘s protection is now a preservation of their culture and way of life. Without that protection intruders could colonize the island in multiple ways.
So what I think it says about „us“ in modern states, is the modern state has a duty to preserve a minority’s right of existence.
What evidence do you have that the Sentinelese have an organisation or person with the monopoly on legitimate violence? You say this as if it is obvious, but I haven't seen anything that would indicate this.
Yea they probably have a guy in charge. Its just human nature to form a group pick one or a few to run it. Technically all the uncontacted tribes are dominion of who ever owns the land but they just don't know that.
@@MrSemIsAwesome Well... it kinda IS obvious. The only way there is no monopoly of legimite violence is a state of anarchy. The Sentinelese are not an anarchic society and that is provable by their hostility towards the outside world - in anarchistic setting, there should be some outliers, who would've approached the outsiders with some sense of hospitability, but as far as I know, anyone who has ventured to the North Sentinel Island has been killed - and quickly at that.
I always wondered if they just attacked anybody or if there is a rule to it.
Like if we would let a similar looking young woman strand on they beach - would they kill her?
Yes
That would lead to lots of grapes, constant and uncontrolled grapes
She is a foreigner, so yes
Of course they'll kill her. It's basically like imagine American Military shooting down an Alien who landed on this Planet.
I'm glad some places remain uncontacted. Compared to those places who have been colonized or have been known by outsiders, can be taken advantage of by outsiders.
On the island of Diego Garcia, part of the Chago Archipelago in the Indian Ocean, whose inhabitants faced expulsion by the British with the request of US in 1965. The island is now a military base.
I very much enjoyed this video but I wonder if you could have driven a little deeper into the title question of the video. I feel like placing the leviathan in the video repeatedly without much context just added unnecessary confusion and clouding of the question at hand. What did we actually learn about states from this? I think the video is great as a short narrative on the history of state contact with the tribes, however to answer the title of the video would probably require a much longer video, with a lot more information and state/political theory. However, for a ten minute video about the north sentinalese I think you did a very good job, honestly ❤️
The video just strengthened the claim that ""without a central authority, we wouldn't develop and maybe even will have to be hunter-gatherers".
I don't think any of us wants to destroy all technology and human development.
I like not being at the risk of dying very young. I like to have wikipedia and learn about science. We all like your videos - without a state your videos wouldn't exists.
love your videos politics with paint
The countryballs "Leviathan" is the best thing I have seen in a long time. If you one day sell merch, please make that a t-shirt.
Uncontract tribes could be wiped out at any time. They are largely human zoos at this point that are allowed to exist. Their stateless-ness makes them vulnerable in a large number of ways.
This man is gonna be the successor of the late Brain4breakfast
These days even the Sentinelese are reliant on a state, the Indian state, to protect them
The first example of an early state can be found in indigenous societies (things such as the Iroquois confederacy, which was upheld as a model for the American state).
Underrated channel
The sentinelese need the protection of a state, since otherwise pirates and other outlaws would occupy their Island to start a criminal enterprise. This is also the argument the Indian gov ist making
I got to admit, this flew past my head. Any organized criminal organization can easily achieve this with their massive resources in comparison to the Sentinelese. 😲
I'd argue that the only reason uncontacted tribed don't need a state is because the world doesn't punish them for not having one. If any country decided to take one of those territorries, the tribe would have to either submit or disappear.
Naah............
It couldn't happen.
Any invading country has to face Indian Navy and such clash/war would automatically result in 3rd World War with different global powers taking sides.
So the results won't be profitable for the invading nation in any way.
@@krishnkant9477 "Any invading country has to face Indian Navy " So they only continue to exist because they have the protection of a state.
@@moist_ointment But internally they don't have a state. The Indian state basically keeps the world from punishing them for being stateless. So... whilst they _are_ under protection of a state, they govern themselves with little to no state.
@@StuffandThings_ well, that doesn't change that fact that a state is necessary for survival.
And when the estimated population is between 15 and 500, of course its not going to have an internal "state", but it would absolutely have some form of internal governance.
@@krishnkant9477 yeah, there wouldn't be much to collect over that piece of land anyways
States needing a monopoly on violence to exist is a really interesting and honestly frighteningly true way of putting it...
Whether that be the violence of ruining lives/imprisonment, or the more straightforward means of the hangman's noose or in the olden days, just stabbing dissenters to death, the government is the one 'allowed' to do it, and no one else. That quote really makes me understand when anarchists call governments criminal, because in a way... they are. Taxes are required tribute to the khan so they don't behead you/enslave you.
Shame hippie communes also suck and are at the whims of the state anyway... The necessary evil and all that.
India declared the area around the island a "no go zone". And so the tribe continues to live without the protection of a state...
Wait a minute, something feels off about that...
Explain
India has changed it's mind in 2018 - the island, and other areas considered as a restriction zone is no longer a restriction zone in order to encourage tourism and studies. This can be looked up.
And that feeling is...irony.
@EL AUTENTICO idk what race has to do with this but okay
@EL AUTENTICO ..... I want you to read your comment and think things through.
Nice visual reference to the drawing of the Leviathan. I think that's what it's called, right? The all-powerful ruler at 7:23
/Edit: Yes, it's a popular cover of the book "Leviathan" by Thomas Hobbes.
Oh shit the "artificial isolation" thing made me think about what if we're totally not alone in the universe and we think we are because we're a very downgraded backwater civilization to the very advanced outer universe (our system might me so outdated it couldn't be called civilization by them) and that we think we're alone in the universe because some alien species is keeping us "protected" and "isolated" within our own artificial bubble of isolation and the UFOs and all that we might see and Freak out about are the foreign expeditionaries and just like the sentinalese we'll want to destroy their UFOs and kill them because theyre foreign to us, and we'd be seen as some inferior beings by the whole gigantic rest of the universe that knowns that we know nothing about the outer universe, and here is where i Leave my theory
Interesting take. Although I doubt we'd pose a threat to any UFO or craft/species that has the ability to travel that well throughout space. So I wouldn't think they would be concerned about us attacking them. I also believe that we are capable of acknowledging the possibility of other life and our basic instinct when we speak of other intelligent life in the universe is usually pretty harmonious - most of the time we are aware of the possibilities of UFO's but we see them with curiosity, fear at times yes, but uncoupled with malicious intent or a need to fight them. Most of us, unlike these tribes, want to know if we're alone, uprooted in a desire of knowing the truth despite a very real prospect that they may actually, by being far superior to us, be a threat to us - yet we still produce satellites for listening, telescopes for seeing and crafts for signaling our existence and location. So while your analogy is interesting and true in some respects - and we may very well be isolated - it is not a direct comparison in many other ways and rather than us being shielded by said civilizations, or feared due to our possible reactions, it is more likely to do with our ability to prove ourselves worthy of attention on the universal stage and our technological inferiority holding us back - and maybe even our continuous susceptibility to diseases/viruses that we have not managed to completely erase - probably something intelligent life elsewhere has already overcome and use as a sign to look for as the ultimate litmus test for the avenue to safe intercommunication.
That’s already a theory
I wanna know why the first thought about alien life is that Earth is evolutionarily behind other possible alien life? Like what if it's actually the opposite? Earth is more technologically advanced than a lot of other inhabited planets, but we're just still not developed enough to make contact with planets that would actually be more primitive than us. Space travel is difficult, it's not going to happen quickly or easily. Like it's only been 52 years since humans landed on the moon but the planet has taken BILLIONs of years to get to where it is now. The fact that humans are already trying to create a way to get to Mars is astounding considering the usual rate of time it takes for things to develop.
Basically, we're not isolated because aliens think we're primitive... we're isolated cuz space is fucking HUGE.
Did you put a Waldo face in the state blob?
As a Sentinelese myself, I can confirm that everything mentioned in the video is 100% correct.
Love from India! ❤🇮🇳
Imagine being a tribal guy on this island and having no clue that there's a whole world out there and that the rest of the world basically sees you as an anthropological specimen
I believe we should truly try to protect these tribes as they give in an insight to our history
I believe we should just leave them alone in general.
How?
@@dantevortex this
How is your comment any different to the concept of human safaris.
I believe we should try to educate them slowly.
great insight
Good video.
That's gonna be interesting
all of those tribes are states.
if ruled by a chief they are a monarchy
if ruled by a council of eldars they are an oligarchy
if by a general assembly they are a democracy
amazing video
There's a huge key factor missing on these sorts of conversations about states and governments, these tribes and civilizations that work without it are small communities and and they are isolated.
To me if anything this is just straight up proof that the state needs to exist in order for humans to continue progressing, the state ensures that people within it are safe and well which spurs advancements. Taxes is a completely different question because if you look at ancient Rome, the tax rate was only 1% and could rise to 3-5% during war or crisis (there's obviously more to it like inheritance tax, a head tax, etc etc.. but it was still MUCH much lower compared to what we have today).. yet the advancements they made are still felt today.
See Africa for example, if you exclude Egypt.. Axum was arguable the most powerful african empire (or kingdom I guess) and the only reason they got that powerful was because of their location, because it meant they could trade and talk with outsiders. Would that have happened if they didn't have a state that enforced laws, had an army that was able to defend the borders and people within it? Hell no. Now look at the rest of Africa, even long before the europeans arrived they were just split up tribes scattered across the place rather than established countries or empires. The empires that did exist failed to do their job, and since there's no state to enforce laws, enforce safety and ensure trade.. the people didn't progress and they then became irrelevant until the outsiders arrived and re-connected them to the world.
I feel both happy and bad for them.
Happy you probably understand but felt bat because they are unaware of so many amazing things in their life. Even when dying, i know they didn’t regret anything but yeah imagine not knowing the outside world even a bit when dying, 😩
I don't think they care too much. Are you caring about what is happening in the universe without you knowing it?
@@aramisortsbottcher8201 yes, if i found out there was inconceivable technology that could help me do things beyond my comprehension, that i could easily have access to. I’d be pretty mad.
I think I just found a hidden gem of a channel.
Most uncontacted tribes do have access to metal tools and other modern technology these days (sometimes guns), through trade with contacted tribes. Also, hunter gatherer groups like the San And Hadza have had access to Pottery and Iron tools through trade for over a thousand years. These peoples are not existing in their "natural" state, whatever that means.
I guess that makes the Sentinelese even more exceptional and important to humanity.
AYOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I feel many people missed the point of the state in this. It's not to provide governance and order, that comes out of social structure. The point of the state is to protect, as laid out at the start of the video.
@EL AUTENTICO lol you are clearly not one of them, but thanks for highlighting that, it is okay!
Someone from one of these tribes ending up in the modern world would be like someone from 5000 BC being in the modern world.
It's kinda scary
Iam glad Indian government has laws to protect tribal people
comment for algorithmic purposes.
Give them gunpowder
Instant fish roast
States, as we understand them today, became a thing in the 18th and 19th centuries, when borders became more defined.
Rome had a very clearly defined border, what are you talking about?
@@travistucker1033 Maybe I should clarify. I'm taking about nation-states. Rome was an empire, not a nation-state.
Subbed!
Reject the state. Return to tribe
the tribe is a state....and we are clearly doing better than them. you want to live like them?
@@007kingifrit Some people do
@@clovebeans713 1 in a million?
@@007kingifrit Hey thats still 7000 people
@@clovebeans713 so nobody
Hi
It's a self fulfilling prophecy, the sentinelese needs the protection of the state from the state itself (see the road point) and from other states
something not mentioned in this video is that the natives of the Andaman archipelago survived thousands of years without discovering how to make fire . They use embers from recent lighting strikes instead
Humans haven’t existed for millions of years, so that’s impossible
Not true. There is reports of British ships voyaging by the island in the 1700's/1800's illustrating lit fires on the island on these occasions, listing it as a sign of occupation.
@@0witw047 not millions but still
Every man has the right to risk his own life in order to preserve it. Has it ever been said that a man who throws himself out the window to escape from a fire is guilty of suicide?
Jean-Jacques Rousseau
kant cooler than rousseau
@@mkx9494 no no there already has been 4 wars for this question
The Sentinalese have the protection of the Indian State now, otherwise could have been conquered, maybe turned into a CCP port.
Also, who is to say that they do not have a means of governance and state-like organization? Sure it isn't as robust as the modern world, but given their limited population, resources, and educational opportunities, they still likely have a structure to their society.
we don't know what year the first state develop, but we know it was on a Tuesday.
Also, if the State of India enforces a protection zone, they're depending on a state. Plus if the British, Indians, Arabs, a Christian missionary from America, that kinda counts as contacted
They can kill without accountability, of course they are a kingdom tribe , state isn’t a thing without farming , taxes etc
That’s an extremely arbitrary definition of a “state”
They are protecting their land from invading forces. Other countries do it all the time.
I think the biggest lesson the Sentinelese have to teach us is that the best response to potential oppressors is unremitting hostility.
They dont sound so 'uncontacted' as I once had believed before- successful diplomatic trading happening between researchers and the tribe sounds like pretty regular contact to me.
Some natives here receive food and other stuffs, we have zones of protections to natives that covers like 70% of amazon, but Je-Tupi people who live outside amazon are gradually being assimilated, speaking two languages and even getting resources of comunication like smartphones and tablets.