Liberland and the Croatian-Serbian Border dispute
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2024
- In this video we are delving into the the ongoing border dispute between Croatia and Serbia along the Danube river. The conflict exists in its current form since 1945 and is developing into a major problem in the region, as it threatens to halt Serbia’s EU-Integration process. While Serbia’s claims correspond to the contemporary shape of the Danube, Croatia’s claim corresponds with the Danube’s shape as it was in the 19th century. This has led to overlapping territorial claims, but has also created a few pockets of lands unclaimed by both. This peculiar circumstance made the conflict famous in 2015, when Czech politician Vít Jedlička decided to proclaim a new "country" there, Liberland.
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Consider supporting this channel on Patreon:
Link to my Patreon: / politicswithpaint
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Music: Blue Danube (by Strauss)
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Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
0:40 The Croatian-Serbian border
1:09 History of the conflict
2:45 Current situation
3:09 Creation of "Liberland"
4:02 Progress on resolving the issue
4:30 Outro
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Sources:
Schofield, Clive H. ; Klemenčić, Mladen (2001) War and Peace on the Danube: The Evolution of the Croatia-Serbia Boundary: Durham University Press, Durham.
Kuzmanovic, Jasmina; Savic, Misha (2018) Online: Croatia, Serbia Vow to Solve Long-Standing Border Dispute. Online: www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
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#croatia #serbia #liberland
“This is *YOUR* land!”
“Don’t be ridiculous, this is clearly *YOUR* land!”
This was certainly one of the stranger border disagreements out there.
Same goes for the Kingdom of Northern Sudan, neither Egypt nor Sudan want it so some guy came in and made it his.
@@Dazzlefisher bir tawil
@@ccqpl yes
@@ccqpl , we 32
wait until you hear aboout bir tawil
Yes, finally someone using correct flags for historical states.
Hahahhahahahahaa
Serbia is Agresor like Russia now..
The flag for Austria Hungary is incorrect
Found your channel via Kraut’s pinned comment
I saw that you had an actual channel name and a logo and decided to check it out
Damn good decision, I can’t wait to see what you do next :)
Same here!
1000th(ish) subscribtion!
same 😁
I live in Serbia my whole life and whole fricking life hadn't heard about this border dispute
cheers from croatia. same thing.
goverments probably dont want to to mention it because there would be extremists who try to redirect the danube
@@spatrk6634 I think its far simple than that.
Not one side actually cares.
This a dispute for the sake of dispute.
You don't live in nearby region. That's why u didn't hear. I live in Serbia, town which is full Serbian, but when u look at borders, 30% of the town is Croatia 😆. But it functions normally like its 100% Serbian (which is😜).
I wish I had known of this when I was i right there cycling along the Danube in 2021!
@@zoran_radakovic And which town is this if I may ask dear neighbor? I live in Vukovar, Croatia, which is in the epicentre of the "Danube dispute" and I am very familiar with all the issues ( I participataed in the inter-state negotiations for the Vukovar Ada Island) but I wasn't aware of any towns in Vojvodina which should be 30% in Croatia? Actually, my impression was that all the disputed land was un-inhibited Danube islands, swamp land/marshes, and sand bars, no actual populated areas. I am very curious to hear back from you. Thanks.
I guess brain4breakfast is a genre now, awesome!
More like Polandball, which has existed for a long time.
@@obsrvdsplash115 break4breakfast is polandball for background image that correlate with the discussion,and usually if not always the discussion is about politics and/or history.
@@alexandrub8786 brain4breakfast himself used to call it polandball, so will I.
RIP brain4breakfast
I hope
You remind me of brain4breakfast like seriously I love this content keep on going wish you best of luck!
Thank you, he was a big inspiration for me so I feel honoured to get that compliment. May he rest in peace.
@@PoliticswithPaint no problem I hope you grow as a content creator in this wonderful community my man may brain4breakfast rest in peace
Stop saying that just because people use county balls in there education video I have seen this types of comment in krauts comments section this is just becoming annoying
@@Ali-gt8wj It isn't just because of countryballs it is also because of the way he tells this stuff is similair to brain4breakfast, and I like the way brain4breakfast said his stuff he didn't constantly say his opinion he just educated you on the topic, Same with Politics with Paint and also kraut no need to become annoyed, because I said that his content was similair to brain4breakfast's content with passion.
(Sorry If I have some grammatical errors I'm not english)
@@aredma2883 yes i agree that the way thay give there argument is similair and with your other points but people saying "he remind me of b4b" it makes them look ripoff of him and also english is not my native language too
A German blaming Austrians for mistakes.... how original :D
But they are to be blamed tho. They just started to straighten the danube without changing the borders.
Moral of the story:
Don't let rivers make your borders
Or, if you do, do as the serbs and just go "I'm East of the River, you are West of the River, end of discussion."
@@Akranejamesthe river changed, in 50 years whats now on the right side and whats on the left could once again be changed and while that doesn't look like a problem both countries would need to chamge their whole border infrastructure, as to move army bases, border passages, even people if they don't want to change nationality when their home becomes a part of another nation
@@petarpavlovic1330 The river isn't exactly an agile thing you won't see move either.
Most sudden changes are human-made, and the rest generally include major infrastructure changes anyways, so I feel like administrative changes happen either way, and natural borders are just easier to deal with for both parties.
No bridges or other infrastructure to make for those stuck the other side, no weird division of the river where chunks are fully of one country or the other and chunks divided, etc.
To put it simply, the Serbs have the traditionnal and frictionless answer to the question, which I think is ultimately the more sustainable one.
@@Akranejames well it is a simpler answer, but then another question is asked; if the territories that were previously of the other country are now easier to be under the new country should the new owner give some kind of reprimation for getting said territory, because let's be honest no person, institution or country is going to let something of theirs passively be taken away without some kind of deal, the deal wasn't made which brings us to the current situation
Bigger moral of the story- statist governments cause more problems than they fix.
Found your channel from the comment section of a Kraut vid, great to see another PB historical account. Can't wait to see more videos !
i find this whole thing hilarious really.... its such an insignificant thing yet we are both to stubborn to let it go lol
Te dunavske otoke...treba proglasiti zajednickim dobrom/djeljenim vlasnistvom Srbije i Hrvatske.
Lokalnom stanovnistvu potpuna sloboda kretanja
Policije obiju zemalja...neka paze na kriminal....zajednickim patrolama
Uciniti te otoke..turistickom atrakcijom
I svasta jos...za dobro ljudi tog kraja
😊👍🍀🌞🙌
this is why the balkans are such a mess
@@zorankalina6100 da, slozem 100%. To bi bio sjajan nacin da zajedno pokazemo solidarnost i radimo na boljim odnosima u buducnosti.
@@Tower_Swagman balkans are a mess because everyone holds onto the past and the ones who are progressive are western sellouts. there is no in between lol.....
@@VojvodaSloboda Silno me veseli...ali bas svaka rijec, koju ste napisali
Sretno...cuvajte se virusa
👍😊🍀🌞🎉🎶⛱🙌
your videos are very interesting and i appreciate you making them!
Thanks so much for this video. I barely needed any other information for my school project
I like that you used Blue Danube on a video talking about the Danube being used as a border.
I love how you used Strauss' Blue Danube as a sound
"recently passed 200 subscribers"
well then
your videos are great!!!!!! you should have like a million subscribbers. this is great quality!!!!!!
Ik the impact of rivers first hand. I grew up on the Mississippi River & parts of my hometown are across the river now, but the heart if the city that sits on a bluff remains the same. So much farmland can potentially change via the river.
Love to Croatia from Serbia
Haha dont mock the indians
@@Leeroywantsrx7 ???????
Hate to Croatia from Serbia because I'm too based to love anyone 😎
Based
Bazirano.
Same to you, from a natural Croat, imagine I said something about your familial relationships.
Holy crap, a border dispute in the balkans that has not started a war
yet
Amazing video! Is there any reason for Austrians to divert the Danube? If yes then what is it may I ask? Waiting for the next video. Thanks for this one.
Yes, it was mostly done for economic purposes. By straightening the Danube the Austrians shortened the time ships spend traversing it and also made it easier to do so for larger ships. The Danube was and still is one of the most important (if not the most important) river for European shipping.
@@PoliticswithPaint thank you very much! Expecting next video soon...
Greatings from serbia
We call the river Dunav
The German and Hungarian names also do not contain "b' sound. English seems to be the odd man out for some wacky reason.
Keep it coming, great content
by all practical measures Serbia has the better claim
How? the borders of the municipalities were never changed...
hey just found you cause kraut has you in his abbos, i like the video and am intressted to see more, greetings from germany
and i cheked krauts abos after i watched a video of brain4breakfast under and wanted more, i did not know that he was dead, may he rest in peace.
great vid m8, keep it up
Wonderful channel!
Another great video!!!!
1:14 the subtitles: Australian Empire
Wasn't that destroyed by the Emu-War?
Austro-Hungarian
@@andrijadjordjevic9584 Aussie-Hungarian Empire
Hello. I used some frames from this video in a presentation in school because they are nice. i gave you credit for them, I hope that is okay
The same issue exists along the Sava River. Although I do not think there is an official border dispute, there are a couple of Croatian municipalities that were historically on the northside of the Sava, but are now on the southside, making them part of Bosnia. Using rivers as a border made sense in the old days, but now that we have the technology to demarcate borders with accuracy, hopefully the issue will become a vestige of the past.
Honestly, in areas that are inhabited and in cases where non-permanent geographic features were picked as the border, they should have referendums to decide. In areas that are uninhabited, they should default to the nation that currently administers the land. The people should decide, not the governments.
It still makes more sense nowadays for the River to be the border due to its strategic value
In Serbia, in 2020 I was watching at how they made a movie about Liberland, the movie was situated in Bezdan at a place called Mrtva Baracka, they came with huge studio equipment and everything, even asked if we knew about Liberland, I was confused about it at the time because I've never heard of it. But now I know what it is. I was like 10 meters away from the huge cameras and everything. It was awesome.
keep up a good work 👍
Amazing video as ever 😊👍
I know Vít Jedlička personally. Liberland is named by "liberty and Liberec" Liberec is town where Mr. Jedlička lives. Greetings from Czechia :)
Liberland: I am gonna randomly make a country
Kosovo: Same
Dap
Dafuq u talkin bout slav?
@@albinh.3149 slav?
Your videos are great!!!
Well explained. But isn't there an actually a tiny town. with a few citizens, somewhere along the Danube, claimed by one, but administered by another ?
i noticed something funny about the particular colors you used for croatia and serbia's lands
do we have an eu4 player on our hands?
I recently did a cycling tour along the Rhine in Germany. There are several instances of river borders not quite working for other reasons.
1. Cities. The city center of Basel is in Switzerland, but the sprawl of the city goes over the Rhine, so the rivers border can't be continuos without cutting a city in half. Further down however, I came across the city pairs of Ludwigshafen/Mannheim and Mainz/Wiesbaden. In both examples, the two cities were part of different internal German states, but the Rhine was a perfectly valid border.
2. Roads. Between Breisach and Kehl, the roads simply end on the German side of the Rhine, because there is a big wet area. If you want to ride along the Rhine, you have to take a bridge over to France, or make a huge turn around the German wetlands. So the Rhine still kinda works as a border, but infrastructurally, it makes transport pretty difficult. Due to the recent Coronavirus outbreak, I couldn't use the French road, and had to make a 15km detour.
3. Services. I have a German contract for my cell phone. But even when I'm on the German side of the border, I only receive the French telecommunication network, since their signals must be much stronger. So, no internet, and much more expensive phone fees.
So that's basically why my cycling tour turned me into a mini-anarchist. Borders are important. But they complicate a lot of things.
There are cases where a city is almost completely confined to the one side of the river. For example Osijek in Croatia. There is the old city center on the one side of the river and fields on the other. The river was the old border between Croatia/Slavonia and Hungary. The river-border cutting through a city usually happens either when the city is older than the border (like Slavonski Brod/Bosanski Brod), or when the border is permeable (like with Basel).
@@2712animefreak yeah another example i can give is Turkish city of Edirne is at both sides of the Maritza River but this river also is the Greko Turkish border. Border leaves Maritza near Edirne to include the western side of the city and reconnects with the river after. I think this was included in the treaty for security of Edirne and since they won the Turkish War of Independence, they got what they wanted
Well I'm from Serbia and I didn't know this.... I'm ashamed of myself... Great video tho!
River creates paches of unclaimed land in the balkan
Check politicians: it's free realestate
Nice video
I have not yet been to that part of the Danube, though I have been to Croatia and Serbia. There is an abandoned house on stilts there, because it floods.
I love how Serbia wears it's shield thingy(idk how it's called in english) as an eyepatch
Coat of arms
I am a croat from Bosnia and I think its best if they just agree to exchange land where both sides find acceptable. For instance Croatia could follow the Danube but would get the equal amount of land that is across the river as a single chunk in the northern part across the danube or near Srijem. Many ways to settle this. That would solve the criss-crossy border and solve the dispute.
Or a similar option to at least have parts of the border follow the danube and other parts solidified by removing the space between the croatian claimed land across the river. A fair exchange of land and a way to move forward from this issue.
Ne može to tako... Postoje geometri i svaki cm se zna koji je čiji... A rijeka će i dalje mijenjati tok... Btw inzistirati da ide po sredini Dunava ide na štetu Hrvatske jer je obala niža i voda tj. riijeka dere obalu i odnosi tako da se obala pomiče prema zapadu na štetu Hrvatske... Pogledaj obalu u Vukovaru , zabezonirana je baš zbog toga jer bi kroz neko vrijeme rijeka išla kroz sam grad....
You should also note Enclava, another micronation which claims one of the smaller pockets.
This is like our one chance to be talked about in the present so as an austrian I'm proud of this.
So proud that you ruled over other countries without them having any rights to decide for themselves
At least this dispute seems unlikely to spark another war in that region. Goodness knows you all have been through more than your fair share of conflict within Europe.
this guy should get 95.1K subs one day
wonder when
Vielen Dank.
you are welcome. Sincerely, Austria 😅
Could we get those disputed parts (back)?
If you kick Croatia out of EU. Why? Because I hate Croatia (I'm a Serb)
I don’t think it will affect Serbia’s path to the EU that much. It is a minor issue. Croatia was and is still dealing with Slovenia over the gulf of Piran before they entered the EU in 2013. However we have a bigger issue that will slower our accession to the EU and this is the status of Kosovo.
The people of Serbia don't want EU. Just keep blocking the entrance.. :D
Greetings from Liberland, I m living here since last year
if no one claims a piece of land, if you claim it it is legally yours
I'm Croatian and I just wanted to say I found it so funny when he pronounced the names and all that incorectlly....
It's much more accurate than most care to do
Can you talk about the independence referendum of Quebec
I might do a video on Quebec at some point :)
quebec was very close to independence, only 1.16% short
IMHO the current river is far less border gore but perhaps they might consider renaturize some of the meanders and keep the old borders there (wouldn't be land of high worth, and mainly a token concession to resolve it)
Who's here after Niko sneak into Liberland!?
I am
Who?
They really left that opening there for #Liberland.
Talking about my country (Serbia) in the context of borders is most dangerous thing to do... especially on internet. I admire your bravery.
Wow finally I understand this
🇷🇸🤝🇭🇷
Your videos are great! I am from those countries and, yeah, we're assholes. 😂
I love croatia From serbia
Nice video 🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸
Municipal borders mentioned were not established by "Austrians" but by "Hungarians", and the same is true about who changed the course of the Danube. To be more precise, this was the border between two Hungarian counties (Baranya and Bács-Bodrog), regulated by the Parliament of the Kingdom of Hungary, even if the Habsburgs overrode this legal arrangement in some short periods. Indeed, this border also served as municipal border as municapilities did not extend over county borders. But the legal status of county borders differed from municipal borders within counties.
At least they both aren’t very angry about it
What if Austria became the mediator and made the final decision, that would be funny I think.
How's Austria at fault? They made the border based on the Danube, but the river changed after Austria, so it's either Croatia's fault for not changing their claim, or Yugoslavia's fault for not having that future committee.
The river changed during Austrian rule which didn't change because they don't give a shit about it
Big powers (USA with EU in tow and Russia with China in tow) divided the region into spheres of influence and while the US grabbed Croatia, Serbia is to remain in the Russian/Chinese sphere of influence for now (but, being surrounded by US sphere, has to pay some tribute to the West, such as fixing its currency to euro and taking and repaying loans to keep it that way - probably to cover the cost of US intervention in the 90s). Anyway - this dispute is put forward by US as a clear sign that Serbia will not be allowed to join EU, at least until the next big shift in the balance of powers moves the spheres of influence one way or the other.
Albanian and Croatian brain:
Ahh its boring , i want to expand but US doesnt let me to war... Hmm i may take some land for free why not
Serbia: No , fucq off
Croatia and Albania: US!!! Dadddyyy i cant get free land
US: ok calm down ma puppets u can get all for free
-This is Described Kosovo issue and this video
@@extramiki3185No
With greetings here from Liberland
That's Austro-Hungarian Empire's Fault, now 🇭🇷Croatia-🇷🇸Serbia Border it's like: the EarPhone that just Put out of the Pocket
@frydymfytr That's Racists
De facto and De jure by Serbia border is todays Danube and by Croatians de jure is Danube in 19th century.
Definitely
What? I am from Serbia. almost 40 years old. I have literally never heard of this before. :D o one talks zbout this.
Wait there was no role of British????
Who is their president? ? ?
Oh shit... Here we go again 🤦♂️
Hvala rvatima sto stopiraju ulaz Srbije u eu. HVALA IM, ne zelimo u eu.
Lazes ko Dara iz Jasenovca.
@@nikola7249 da bog da imali i vi rvati milion Dara.
I'm Serbian and I've never heard of this before.
Plot twist: countries are actually islands
Wait what, those two have civil agreements. Arent they slaughtering each other on eyesight or something. Thats wild, Balkans show some progress ngl
Hi from Liberland
Am i the only one watching after Niko's video?
Nope
Have you heard that Croatia has opened a border to liberland
God help us all
I actually know a few people who are involved in liberland and i have actual liberland money from the 2019 anniversery
They like fishing
Anyone else ever notice that Yugoslavia was shaped like a ham someone too a bite out of?
That "bite" was to be filled with Albania but Tito failed in that
@@gamerstrice4731 you sure? from what I've seen of maps, Albania is down where the bone is. the bite I was talking about is taken up by, coincidentally enough, Hungary.
@@benthomason3307 ah. For that I don't think there were ever any plans. But ik Tito had plans for Albanians (giving us Kosovo issue of today) and Bulgarians (there wasn't much done about it because they were on the losing side of WW2 so any kind of unity would put Yugoslavia in a bad position)
3:30 “Now our czech broders we will not be stop to claim more land like in Togo not for the second time!”
Kraut sent me
200 subs a year ago now 24.7k
President 47 meets both sides: Put the River on the Border or we recognize Liberland
Love Serbia`s point of view
Im from Croatia and Croat.
l like Croatian 'point of view.. And we shall not giving u (to Serbia) even the square cm at left side of Danube river.
Now there comes young people Serbs smoking weed bcz, serbian police and court doesn't have jurisdiction in that teritory,so big u canot feeding 100 sheeps.
but bcz VUKOVAR For example. If Slovenia had to have referendum about free passage of Croatia in EU, what u think what answer will be about serbia. Wish U all the best.
Lot of Slovenians has his houses at coast line of Adriatic - Jadranu da se razumijemo, pa kad smo im rekli da budeju plalali 10x veči tax porez na nekretnine se predomislili ex tovariši. A vama u Srbiji barem još generacija ili da te ne šokira 50 milijardi eura, kredita smo dobili i digli za obnovu, što ste vi srušili 91-95.
@@Andre-ff4hp Koji vi odtete ocete kad niste odstetili 40-44-u?
@@Andre-ff4hp Puni ste mrznje i pakosti i onda ti ovde jos dolazis da mi vredjas narod, pusti stare rane i nebizdaj, svi smo sjebavali jedno drugo da je bolje ostaviti da niko nikome nista neodstecuje niti zamera
@@Andre-ff4hp Svi mi i Srbi i Hrvati pricamo sta su nam Dede radile i to je problem, to su se nase Dede pobijali za stvari koje su tada bile vazne, sta je ko kome radio, nije moje mesto da pricam, ali onda nemojte da trazite nista od nas kad si i sam sada priznao da si ustasa, a tvojom logikom ,ogu da kazem da sve sto su moji radili u bosni je bilo zbog vas ustasa
@@viktorstojanovic5076 Nevjerojatno kako vi uspijete sve izvrnuti. Možda si me krivo shvatio, došli su sa 4C,Uniformama 1991,i protjerali svo Stanovništvo ili ti civile. 1991.,reko sam da su nama bez razloga digli kuću u zrak, neću govoriti o neljudskim djelima upravo VAS, ili vaših, a istim putem su se i ti protjerani i vratili ali 1995, na 8 km nisam vidjeo ni kuće ni ljude koji su tu živjeli, eto zato vas ne volim, a ustaše su samo u vašim glavama ja nisam vidjeo nijednog.
Pa vi valjda uSrbiji ni neznate što se sve događalo u HR, i koje sve nevolje smo morali prolaziti? Ovako svako na svom , neka razmišlja i rješava svoje probleme, osobno o vama niti ne razmišljam za mene ste samo susjedna država ili turisti koji dođu ljeti.
Yeah, but now another event happend to this border that made it a Schengen border at the end of 2022 CE. So, before this date many people can cross the border easily, but must return back if they don't have Visa or passport. But, now, a military is all along the border, and Liberland has 0 population after it was actually having few people.
Rip
There's no dispute, Serbia doesn't want it, Croatia doesn't want it but they have an agreement that Croatian border police controls this part of the Danube river.
For my opinion it should be going straight
Dang, Austria. Causing wars again?
This is really cool like brain4breakfast (RIP) you got a new sub
No its not that Croatia wants land on Serbian side of rivers but also wants to keep the ones which shud be given to Serbia
Like what?
@@marcusaurelius394 3km of serbian land is on croat side 7 km of croat land on serbian side ...croatia wants those 7 km but dont want to hive 3 km of serbian land
@@nikolabozic6720 You are wrong, Croatia would gladly give that land because if they would take it Serbs would be free to take east side. I mean you guys wanted to take everything up to Karlobag Karlovac Virovitica not long ago, taking this small land is fine with me at least, just dont play turbofolk too laud.
@@marcusaurelius394 we learned that at school you are wrong....google a little bit
Great Video🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷