Have you watched recent very, very short video about SC2 WoL from Giant Grant Games?:) He made a few very interesting points about SC2 being very repetetive on ladder/pro scene and how to fix it:) it starts in chapter called In Utter Lameness around 2h17m mark:)
I think this is the first thing that's made me go "oh, maybe this worker start change is onto something". The timing attacks feel like they hit harder and I like that not every tech structure came online in the early midgame.
would love a drastically smaller or drastically more worker count test by the pros, even moreso than 8. subtle changes don't interest me too much anymore in starcraft. Even IF this can have a large impact, i'd rather something that FORCES a larger impact, if that makes sense.
To be scientific about it, I think it would make sense to force build order openings start with something other than supply before building 12 workers for at least one of the players.
How can they do this many games, and not have a single 8 pool? I want to know how hard it hits. It is unclear how much this mod changes the strategic variety if they don't go for any fast rushes.
Even if the players aren't choosing to do early rushes or earlier gas timings for faster tech, it's cool to see how 8 or 9 worker start still allows games to consistently and smoothly develop into fun action packed macro games - but also without the players reaching max 200/200 supply as quickly as they did with 12 worker start. I'm sure also that taking a quick 3 bases as Zerg would probably not be the safest thing if Protoss decides to go for an early rush like a 4 Gate or 3 gate robo or such, but still being safer to choose a macro expand opener than back in WoL with only 6 workers where 1 base rushes were a bit too prominent. I would love if we patch the game to go back to 9 worker start (I'd also prefer 8 worker over 12 worker). These games were really fun and action packed to watch - I believe the slight reduced focus in economy is enough to make more interactive games like this significantly more common than passively max'ing out to 200/200 and getting every single tech and upgrade. It would allow so many more gas opening variations and help tech heavy playstyles like Mech be more viable, as well as allow more opportunities for early rushes if you want to make a hard read on your opponent's opening.
I'd like there to be thought into making mirror matchups more fun. Maybe something like supply & demand. If youre building lots of tanks the cost rises... Or also in the case of TvT have upgrades added to the CC that are actually deupgrades for both you and the opponent. Such as removing seige mode from future made tanks. Or maybe just upgrades or units. Permanent cloak for ghost & banshee etc... Just things you cant see in other match ups. And wont ruin other match ups will be more entertaining to play and to watch.
Curious what the general opinion is on this change. In theory I like it, but is it actually doing what we hope? Is there actually more early game variety? Is there a longer middle game? Is it actually harder to just rush up to three bases and the end game? Would LOVE if those things are true as the current game is getting so stale to play and watch.
Chess has the same problem as SC2, the opening terrains are too repetitive. Enter Freestyle chess (backed by the spirit of Bobby Fischer, Magnus and current top playres) , where the backline pieces are placed "randomly." The best solution for SC2 will be similar. Place some unknowns into each match. This could be number of workers if its random, but more likely the best solution is more maps and starting places they can't be memorized. Then every game is a strategy puzzle and not an execution fest.
@ it’s only a map win if the advantages are known before the game is played out. Figuring out positioning and advantages is the essence of strategy game and because a lot of that gets figured out in practice sessions this game has edged away from strategy closer to mousey clicky fasty. Or jumping from known pattern to known pattern. If the map pool was 30 maps and they couldn’t veto or know the order. Didn’t show the map name at start. Changed the colors a bit on each map. Add some unknowns.
Havent watched the games yet but if we implement this we might need to speed up larva production again because Zerg doesnt get their queens and hatches as quickly which will make it tough for them to keep up in the early game
Hi I'm the substitute spoiler shield for the real spoiler shield person
Thank you substitute spoiler shield for the real spoiler shield person 🫡
My brain hurts 🤕
May the shield not spoile you!
hey i hope to shield others from you and the real spoiler shield person in the future. so id let the real spoiler shield person know if i were you
you got two people who won't be phased by this at all!!!
Extending the Early Game with 8 workers is already great to watch, though random worker starts would be better for tournaments.
This pace is so much better. SC2 bw style
I dream about a season with 8-workers-start and 200% HP.
I haven't played in years, but just been watching, and this first game was one of the most interesting games I've seen in a LONG time
와 굉장한게임이네요! good game!! surprise fantastic game!!
PiG, next time pls try “I threaten so and so to play - mod”, and I’ll love you even mo
Have you watched recent very, very short video about SC2 WoL from Giant Grant Games?:) He made a few very interesting points about SC2 being very repetetive on ladder/pro scene and how to fix it:) it starts in chapter called In Utter Lameness around 2h17m mark:)
Thanks for the "time stamp"
Bly should try this mod.
Bly vs Has
I think this is the first thing that's made me go "oh, maybe this worker start change is onto something". The timing attacks feel like they hit harder and I like that not every tech structure came online in the early midgame.
would love a drastically smaller or drastically more worker count test by the pros, even moreso than 8. subtle changes don't interest me too much anymore in starcraft. Even IF this can have a large impact, i'd rather something that FORCES a larger impact, if that makes sense.
How about a mod to change mineral return from 5 to 4?
To be scientific about it, I think it would make sense to force build order openings start with something other than supply before building 12 workers for at least one of the players.
How can they do this many games, and not have a single 8 pool? I want to know how hard it hits. It is unclear how much this mod changes the strategic variety if they don't go for any fast rushes.
Even if the players aren't choosing to do early rushes or earlier gas timings for faster tech, it's cool to see how 8 or 9 worker start still allows games to consistently and smoothly develop into fun action packed macro games - but also without the players reaching max 200/200 supply as quickly as they did with 12 worker start.
I'm sure also that taking a quick 3 bases as Zerg would probably not be the safest thing if Protoss decides to go for an early rush like a 4 Gate or 3 gate robo or such, but still being safer to choose a macro expand opener than back in WoL with only 6 workers where 1 base rushes were a bit too prominent.
I would love if we patch the game to go back to 9 worker start (I'd also prefer 8 worker over 12 worker).
These games were really fun and action packed to watch - I believe the slight reduced focus in economy is enough to make more interactive games like this significantly more common than passively max'ing out to 200/200 and getting every single tech and upgrade.
It would allow so many more gas opening variations and help tech heavy playstyles like Mech be more viable, as well as allow more opportunities for early rushes if you want to make a hard read on your opponent's opening.
NEED a random gen map mod. Every map is brand new for everyone.
Feels like I haven't seen herO play in forever
I'd like there to be thought into making mirror matchups more fun.
Maybe something like supply & demand. If youre building lots of tanks the cost rises...
Or also in the case of TvT have upgrades added to the CC that are actually deupgrades for both you and the opponent. Such as removing seige mode from future made tanks.
Or maybe just upgrades or units. Permanent cloak for ghost & banshee etc...
Just things you cant see in other match ups. And wont ruin other match ups will be more entertaining to play and to watch.
okok hear me out: how about gamespeed at 90% and workers gather minerals at a slightly slower rate?
I only watch dark vods. And Reynor.
Some Shin.
Curious what the general opinion is on this change. In theory I like it, but is it actually doing what we hope? Is there actually more early game variety? Is there a longer middle game? Is it actually harder to just rush up to three bases and the end game? Would LOVE if those things are true as the current game is getting so stale to play and watch.
Iv don't notice much of a difference but im sure thus would be better Than the 12 start
make spore crawlers require evo chamber again!!
Chess has the same problem as SC2, the opening terrains are too repetitive. Enter Freestyle chess (backed by the spirit of Bobby Fischer, Magnus and current top playres) , where the backline pieces are placed "randomly." The best solution for SC2 will be similar. Place some unknowns into each match. This could be number of workers if its random, but more likely the best solution is more maps and starting places they can't be memorized. Then every game is a strategy puzzle and not an execution fest.
Then you’ll have to remake the whole game, because there can be just “map wins”. And no one wants that
@ it’s only a map win if the advantages are known before the game is played out. Figuring out positioning and advantages is the essence of strategy game and because a lot of that gets figured out in practice sessions this game has edged away from strategy closer to mousey clicky fasty. Or jumping from known pattern to known pattern. If the map pool was 30 maps and they couldn’t veto or know the order. Didn’t show the map name at start. Changed the colors a bit on each map. Add some unknowns.
The winner is the guy with the letter R as the third letter in the name. You are welcome and no longer need to watch the video.
Havent watched the games yet but if we implement this we might need to speed up larva production again because Zerg doesnt get their queens and hatches as quickly which will make it tough for them to keep up in the early game
I don't see any difference other than the early game is more boring
wuts with this 8 worker mod. Feels like they are trying to turn sc2 into brood war recently
Brood War had 4 workers, Starcraft 2 for half its lifespan had 6
8 04min look how many queens....... Rediculous and boaring to watch zerg spam queens no skill
it's 7 queens, literally 1 per hatchery
give zerg a real anti air option both early and late game then we can talk about queens
It's funny to see people with no clue say "no skill".