"most of it is common sense" thanks for spitting coffee all over my monitor by laughing. Looking at used machines, there is not much common sense out there ;)
I agree Stefan, most old machines are beat all to pieces and wore completely out due to people not caring for the machine. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Great and logical video Steve. My little south bend shaper is about the size of your shapers vise and weighs a whole lot less but there's a lot you mentioned that holds true for mine as well. While I've yet to do any hand scraping, one large lesson I learned from reading the Machine Tool Reconditioning book and it completely changed my thoughts was about just how much cleaner and well oiled my machine tools needed to be to extend there accuracy and lifespan. As boring and dry as the book is it really should be required reading for anyone operating machine tools. How machines are supposed to be treated and maintained certainly isn't rocket science. Even a blacksmith doesn't ever hit his anvil with the hammer on purpose. It's the work that's always hit. Anyone leaving permanent marks while doing adjustments or while operating a machine then there obviously doing something wrong. One hole in a drill press or mills vise or table is a large mistake and maybe part of learning. 2 or more then there not learning and it might be time to use that ball pein hammer on there own head until they do. :-) Mat's Elliot shaper was I think even more mistreated that yours has been I think, but both were operated by metal butchers and certainly not skilled operators.
Really nice to see someone who knows how to properly operate quality machines and actually know the value of good maintenance. Your shop is well organized. I watch all your videos. It would be great if you had some videos showing moving the machines into your shop.
John Robertson I still find new things every time I look over my shaper real well. I look at for anything that has movment, most the time if it moves it needs to be clean and oiled. Thanks for stopping by.
Great...I have a baby 7" South Bend in great, all original condition....built 1958. It has an automatic oiling system and you can see the original factory scraping on the ram. These are fun to use and I enjoy your vids. It would be great to have a large machine like yours but the 'baby' is perfect for my small shop. Anyway......thanks for the vids....
Nice video Steve, I dont have a shaper but support your channel regardless of the content. Many of your ideas can be adapted to the machines we own, thanks for sharing ~ Richard
Fantastic video, thanks for the details on the oiling system especially. Really can't ge enough of that shaper. So glad that it has found a good home and you're taking care of it like the piece of industrial history that it is.
Very good and informative video. When I clean screws, I reach for an old toothbrush. Gets down to the roots. Also works on racks. And percussive maintenance is all too common. What is not common is common sense.
Steve, great video, thanks for sharing. Tons of information and common sense about machine care, oil, lube, clean, adjust and oil again. Thanks for showing the internals. I laughed out loud when I saw the cloud of smoke from the hillbilly extension cord! One other thing, I had to laugh when y o u were checking the deflection of the extended ram, I guarantee it weighs more than you, get a fat guy to help next time, the shaper was probably laughing. Thanks again
James Zivny LOL, I thought I would add the smoke, I figured someone would get a laugh out of it. I know I did when I was editing it in. Thanks for stopping by.
Very Nice Steve. I've got to get back to work on mine lol. Talking about the gib someone over tighten it, and scared up the ram. I didn't see it till I got it running. I haven't checked to see if the ram is bad out yet, but it seems run ok it doesn't make any bad noises, but yes I can see that could kill a machine.
Classic Work Guess it all depends on how bad the damage is. I am sure it could be cleaned up with some scraping. Nice to see you, thanks for stopping by.
Thanks Steven . There seems to be something about these old machines that just draw me to them. Nobody wanted them but now they are like jewels. I would love to have one of the old mini shapers just to set and watch stroke back and forth. I guess you could say I have a Tool Porn addiction. LOL
terry cannon Whoa there partner! Its not an addiction, its an iron deficiency! Most of us have it, the more complicated and more moving parts a machine has the more soothing it is to watch lol. The shaper is perfect, its slow enough to watch, not a cnc spinning 10,000rpm. If you ever went to a shop that had overhead shafts and belt driven lathes and mills they'd have to drag you out. I've had the pleasure, they are man killers but fascinating!
James Zivny I'll try to remember it is only an iron deficiency ..LOL I know what you mean about the old line shaft machine shops. I love watching Dave Richards Old Steam Powered Machine Shop channel. I agree with you about the CNC. Thanks for the reply.
Nice video Steve I see a lot more moving parts on the mechincal shaper then there is on my ROCKFORD HY DRAULIC MACHINE but there is still maintenance to do. I didn't get the right vise for my shaper so I like the vise on your machine. In my maintence book it says my machine should have a 15" vise I have a 12" vise
THE IRONWORKER That is very common, lots of shapers out there that don't have the correct vise on them due to damage or theft. The vise by itself is often more expensive than the shaper. Nice to see you Ironworker.
UncleBobsWorkshop. If it's in decent shape your getting into a great machine. The 16" Cincinnati shaper is one of the most looked for medium sized shaper there is if you ask me. I would take one in a heartbeat. They were and are great machines. Thanks for stopping by
The thump referred to may be the gib binding/grabbing just enough to shift it against the adjuster button (that engages the gib) when travel reverses. Contrast this with "pounding" due to too much play in a slide or bushing.
That was a very strange thing to find in a machine instructions guide, to me a "thump" is usually a bad thing from a running machine, I don't like obscene noises from one of my toys. And the word "snug", I agree with Steve, they could have used betters terms. It makes you wonder how many perfectly good machines got scrapped due to people following those instructions!
man, I wish my shaper had the automatic oiling like that, mine is all manual and there's always a small spot or two that you seem to forget about and then it starts making noise and reminds you, lol.
Good to see you Noel,, I totally agree with you, they can ruin a machine quick.. Some people have no idea what damage they are doing when they beat on a machine with a hammer. I can tell you now that the person who beat up mine should have been nowhere near a precision machine.
I was always wondering on why people use hammers to adjust things in precision machines. Is it laziness? Is it because of lack of care that makes machine hard to adjust otherwise? (leaving aside stuff like light taps with a nylon hammer, because I think that's acceptable)
Is there a way to square the corners on a 1"x1" through mortise with 1/8" corners on a shaper and what would the bit look like. Could you take out the horizontal as well as the vertical in one operation?
Gonzo I love my little Metro, she needs a rebuild though. I got 300 thousand miles of the motor before she started smoking. I will rebuild it... 52mpg is great. Only bad thing is that if u get in a crash she is a death trap.
When you think about how long it takes to do proper maintenance on a machine then there is no wonder why so many wind up getting neglected when getting jobs out the door is more the bosses push than taking care of equipment.
bcbloc02 Your correct, most of these old machines would still be in real good shape if they were properly cared for because they were built like a tank. Glad to hear for you Brian, I need to get out there and visit you again soon.
bcbloc02 Looking forward to the video! Glad you leaked it! I'm recovering from surgery #1, getting ready for a big one so I'm catching up on UA-cam. Good luck on the pour, ill check with Bailey.
I was very lucky, my grandfather (lifetime machinist & mechanic) taught me lessons I still hear him over my shoulder sometimes. Bad tools do bad work and hurt people, good tools make money and are safe, it doesn't take much time to do some maintenance(yes big machines could take a day), I still have a lot of his tools and treat all my tools the same, my sons have learned from me also. I hate going to a friends shop and have to spend 30minutes cleaning and tightening all the hardware on a drill press to make one hole! $#%@
Where I worked maintance one machine had a "for every hour of run time 1/2 hour of maintaince/cleanup" Boss always pushsing us to do less maintance on it. Once a month the manufacture would be called to fix it and he would say the same thing if we would had kept the Maintance secdule he would not have to be there and the machine down for 2 days!
When cleaning a machine a shop vac is your friend..stay away from the air hose. The air hose will blow all those chips and grit on to your nice sticky oiled surfaces and stay where they are hard to get to. Force yourself to clean the machine tool after every use, don't let it go an be a mess that is a real pain to clean up.
I might not be the only one to appreciate it, if you could make your next 'snug' adjustments with a torque wrench so we can start putting numbers on that term. I do okay with things I can measure, but when results depend mostly on subjective feel, I waste a lot of time second guessing myself.
I think almost all old Machinery has been used as an anvil by someone. I have to make a new gib for my Atlas 12 inch lathe and I'm not sure how. What is the 27 on the two parts of the vise?
Lifes Journeyman I think it was the either a machine number given to this machine in a line of machines at some factory or it was a number put on the two parts of the vise in order to keep them together because they were likely hand fitted. What type of gib do you need for it? Flat or tapered.
Both the compound and the cross slide have white plastic gibs. They could be teflon and the compound gib is broken where the gib screw pushes on it on one end. To me they should have been made of metal but that's probably how they kept the cost down. I haven't had any luck finding the part.
Yep, I am in the same boat, plastic %#}% gibs for cross slide and my compound (Atlas 12" Commercial Underdrive Lathe) Rigidity with plastic gibs.....hardly 😡
Thanks for sharing the magnet idea, have a bunch of them stuck on the side of a bin I am going to put to good use. You might have already seen this, Gear Cutting on the Shaper, www.neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/Michael_Moore/shaper%20gear%20cut.pdf
427med. Well well, look who showed up... Hey Jon how are ya? I'm gona try to email you later today if I get free. I have a question I want to ask you. Nice to see you by the way.
Remember when you were a kid and got just a thump on the noggin? Also after it's too tight back it off a hair. I think they made those manuals entirely to complicated. (Of course this is a joke but sadly true sometimes.) I enjoy your comments and videos. Is that door bared to keep your wife out? Greg.
Charles Compton No the door is locked to keep her in LOL. I got my share of thumps on the noggin, my dad would flip us on the head with his finger when we were acting up. My dads hands were Strong!! He was an auto mechanic and when he fliped your head your skull rang like a bell😣
"most of it is common sense" thanks for spitting coffee all over my monitor by laughing.
Looking at used machines, there is not much common sense out there ;)
I agree Stefan, most old machines are beat all to pieces and wore completely out due to people not caring for the machine. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Great and logical video Steve. My little south bend shaper is about the size of your shapers vise and weighs a whole lot less but there's a lot you mentioned that holds true for mine as well. While I've yet to do any hand scraping, one large lesson I learned from reading the Machine Tool Reconditioning book and it completely changed my thoughts was about just how much cleaner and well oiled my machine tools needed to be to extend there accuracy and lifespan. As boring and dry as the book is it really should be required reading for anyone operating machine tools. How machines are supposed to be treated and maintained certainly isn't rocket science. Even a blacksmith doesn't ever hit his anvil with the hammer on purpose. It's the work that's always hit. Anyone leaving permanent marks while doing adjustments or while operating a machine then there obviously doing something wrong. One hole in a drill press or mills vise or table is a large mistake and maybe part of learning. 2 or more then there not learning and it might be time to use that ball pein hammer on there own head until they do. :-) Mat's Elliot shaper was I think even more mistreated that yours has been I think, but both were operated by metal butchers and certainly not skilled operators.
Really nice to see someone who knows how to properly operate quality machines and actually know the value of
good maintenance. Your shop is well organized. I watch all your videos. It would be great if you had some videos
showing moving the machines into your shop.
great video from some years ago with wonderful commonsense advice and insight...this sort of thing is great and worth seeking out in the archives!
Steve, thanks for sharing. One can never know too much about machine maintenance, and I know I learned some new things.
John Robertson I still find new things every time I look over my shaper real well. I look at for anything that has movment, most the time if it moves it needs to be clean and oiled. Thanks for stopping by.
Great...I have a baby 7" South Bend in great, all original condition....built 1958. It has an automatic oiling system and you can see the original factory scraping on the ram. These are fun to use and I enjoy your vids. It would be great to have a large machine like yours but the 'baby' is perfect for my small shop. Anyway......thanks for the vids....
Very interesting. My dad always told me to clean a machine after every use and to lube on a regular basis. Nice one Steve
Rupert Hartop A well made well cared for machine will last a lifetime.. Thanks for stopping by
Nice video Steve, I dont have a shaper but support your channel regardless of the content. Many of your ideas can be adapted to the machines we own, thanks for sharing ~ Richard
Fantastic video, thanks for the details on the oiling system especially. Really can't ge enough of that shaper. So glad that it has found a good home and you're taking care of it like the piece of industrial history that it is.
Sascha Oswald Thank you
loved the smoke fx out of the plug.
Steve thanks for sharing that will be very helpful information for me. I will be taking a closer look at my machine.
vince saluto Helps to go over it with a fine toothed comb. I missed things even after doing it.😃 Thanks for watching, glad you stopped by.
Very good and informative video. When I clean screws, I reach for an old toothbrush. Gets down to the roots. Also works on racks. And percussive maintenance is all too common. What is not common is common sense.
Steve, great video, thanks for sharing. Tons of information and common sense about machine care, oil, lube, clean, adjust and oil again. Thanks for showing the internals. I laughed out loud when I saw the cloud of smoke from the hillbilly extension cord! One other thing, I had to laugh when y o u were checking the deflection of the extended ram, I guarantee it weighs more than you, get a fat guy to help next time, the shaper was probably laughing. Thanks again
James Zivny LOL, I thought I would add the smoke, I figured someone would get a laugh out of it. I know I did when I was editing it in. Thanks for stopping by.
Very Nice Steve. I've got to get back to work on mine lol. Talking about the gib someone over tighten it, and scared up the ram. I didn't see it till I got it running. I haven't checked to see if the ram is bad out yet, but it seems run ok it doesn't make any bad noises, but yes I can see that could kill a machine.
Classic Work Guess it all depends on how bad the damage is. I am sure it could be cleaned up with some scraping. Nice to see you, thanks for stopping by.
Thank you for the help❤
Thanks Steven . There seems to be something about these old machines that just draw me to them. Nobody wanted them but now they are like jewels. I would love to have one of the old mini shapers just to set and watch stroke back and forth. I guess you could say I have a Tool Porn addiction. LOL
terry cannon Whoa there partner! Its not an addiction, its an iron deficiency! Most of us have it, the more complicated and more moving parts a machine has the more soothing it is to watch lol. The shaper is perfect, its slow enough to watch, not a cnc spinning 10,000rpm. If you ever went to a shop that had overhead shafts and belt driven lathes and mills they'd have to drag you out. I've had the pleasure, they are man killers but fascinating!
James Zivny I'll try to remember it is only an iron deficiency ..LOL I know what you mean about the old line shaft machine shops. I love watching Dave Richards Old Steam Powered Machine Shop channel. I agree with you about the CNC. Thanks for the reply.
I must admit that I also suffer from the iron deficiency I feel I am getting closer to being cured, I just need 1 or 2 more machines😀
Thank you . I appreciated your video.
Nice video Steve I see a lot more moving parts on the mechincal shaper then there is on my ROCKFORD HY DRAULIC MACHINE but there is still maintenance to do. I didn't get the right vise for my shaper so I like the vise on your machine. In my maintence book it says my machine should have a 15" vise I have a 12" vise
THE IRONWORKER That is very common, lots of shapers out there that don't have the correct vise on them due to damage or theft. The vise by itself is often more expensive than the shaper. Nice to see you Ironworker.
Hey Steve,
Thanks for sharing. I'm in the process of buying a Cincinatti Shaper 16. You help me figure out what I'm getting into.
UncleBobsWorkshop. If it's in decent shape your getting into a great machine. The 16" Cincinnati shaper is one of the most looked for medium sized shaper there is if you ask me. I would take one in a heartbeat. They were and are great machines. Thanks for stopping by
Like your apron, might have to do something like that.
The thump referred to may be the gib binding/grabbing just enough to shift it against the adjuster button (that engages the gib) when travel reverses. Contrast this with "pounding" due to too much play in a slide or bushing.
john john That is what I was thinking also, hate to tighten it till that happens 😫.
That was a very strange thing to find in a machine instructions guide, to me a "thump" is usually a bad thing from a running machine, I don't like obscene noises from one of my toys. And the word "snug", I agree with Steve, they could have used betters terms. It makes you wonder how many perfectly good machines got scrapped due to people following those instructions!
steve very in informative video.
Robert Kutz Thank you
man, I wish my shaper had the automatic oiling like that, mine is all manual and there's always a small spot or two that you seem to forget about and then it starts making noise and reminds you, lol.
There’s a special circle of hell awaiting those who use hammers to adjust machinery.
Good to see you Noel,, I totally agree with you, they can ruin a machine quick.. Some people have no idea what damage they are doing when they beat on a machine with a hammer. I can tell you now that the person who beat up mine should have been nowhere near a precision machine.
I was always wondering on why people use hammers to adjust things in precision machines. Is it laziness? Is it because of lack of care that makes machine hard to adjust otherwise?
(leaving aside stuff like light taps with a nylon hammer, because I think that's acceptable)
Is there a way to square the corners on a 1"x1" through mortise with 1/8" corners on a shaper and what would the bit look like. Could you take out the horizontal as well as the vertical in one operation?
nice geo metro. i miss my old chevy sprint and that 50+mpg. it may have been a shitbox but it was MY shitbox
Gonzo I love my little Metro, she needs a rebuild though. I got 300 thousand miles of the motor before she started smoking. I will rebuild it... 52mpg is great. Only bad thing is that if u get in a crash she is a death trap.
When you think about how long it takes to do proper maintenance on a machine then there is no wonder why so many wind up getting neglected when getting jobs out the door is more the bosses push than taking care of equipment.
bcbloc02 Your correct, most of these old machines would still be in real good shape if they were properly cared for because they were built like a tank. Glad to hear for you Brian, I need to get out there and visit you again soon.
I plan to be pouring concrete on Tuesday come on over and I will find you something you can do on your visit. :-)
bcbloc02 Looking forward to the video! Glad you leaked it! I'm recovering from surgery #1, getting ready for a big one so I'm catching up on UA-cam. Good luck on the pour, ill check with Bailey.
I was very lucky, my grandfather (lifetime machinist & mechanic) taught me lessons I still hear him over my shoulder sometimes. Bad tools do bad work and hurt people, good tools make money and are safe, it doesn't take much time to do some maintenance(yes big machines could take a day), I still have a lot of his tools and treat all my tools the same, my sons have learned from me also. I hate going to a friends shop and have to spend 30minutes cleaning and tightening all the hardware on a drill press to make one hole! $#%@
Where I worked maintance one machine had a "for every hour of run time 1/2 hour of maintaince/cleanup" Boss always pushsing us to do less maintance on it. Once a month the manufacture would be called to fix it and he would say the same thing if we would had kept the Maintance secdule he would not have to be there and the machine down for 2 days!
When cleaning a machine a shop vac is your friend..stay away from the air hose. The air hose will blow all those chips and grit on to your nice sticky oiled surfaces and stay where they are hard to get to.
Force yourself to clean the machine tool after every use, don't let it go an be a mess that is a real pain to clean up.
I might not be the only one to appreciate it, if you could make your next 'snug' adjustments with a torque wrench so we can start putting numbers on that term. I do okay with things I can measure, but when results depend mostly on subjective feel, I waste a lot of time second guessing myself.
I think almost all old Machinery has been used as an anvil by someone. I have to make a new gib for my Atlas 12 inch lathe and I'm not sure how. What is the 27 on the two parts of the vise?
Lifes Journeyman I think it was the either a machine number given to this machine in a line of machines at some factory or it was a number put on the two parts of the vise in order to keep them together because they were likely hand fitted. What type of gib do you need for it? Flat or tapered.
Both the compound and the cross slide have white plastic gibs. They could be teflon and the compound gib is broken where the gib screw pushes on it on one end. To me they should have been made of metal but that's probably how they kept the cost down. I haven't had any luck finding the part.
They are angled.
Yep, I am in the same boat, plastic %#}% gibs for cross slide and my compound (Atlas 12" Commercial Underdrive Lathe) Rigidity with plastic gibs.....hardly 😡
Makin Sumthin From Nuthin
Have you had any luck finding replacement gibs that are preferably metal?
Where can I buy one of them there jeesless Vise ?
Thanks for sharing the magnet idea, have a bunch of them stuck on the side of a bin I am going to put to good use.
You might have already seen this, Gear Cutting on the Shaper, www.neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/Michael_Moore/shaper%20gear%20cut.pdf
Why don't you make a rubber skirt to attach to the moving vise or somewhere in that area
👍
i have two new shaper vices. do you no how needs a good vice.let me no.
What type oil use ?
Steve, I also live in Kentucky, What area are you from? Thanks
David Legg I live in Frankfort👍
Did you get your shaper from Chuck, The vw guy?
mine has not been used in 15 years should asked me before buying one. Jon in Ky
427med. Well well, look who showed up... Hey Jon how are ya? I'm gona try to email you later today if I get free.
I have a question I want to ask you. Nice to see you by the way.
I'm looking for a shaper of decent size , had a smaller one that was just not practical for my shop.
Remember when you were a kid and got just a thump on the noggin? Also after it's too tight back it off a hair. I think they made those manuals entirely to complicated. (Of course this is a joke but sadly true sometimes.) I enjoy your comments and videos. Is that door bared to keep your wife out? Greg.
Charles Compton No the door is locked to keep her in LOL. I got my share of thumps on the noggin, my dad would flip us on the head with his finger when we were acting up. My dads hands were Strong!! He was an auto mechanic and when he fliped your head your skull rang like a bell😣
First comment :)