Just bought the reflex a month ago and haven’t been able to try it out till today and lo and behold all the experiences about this thing shooting low left were true and I’m so glad I’m came across your video I’m going to try this out like you mentioned, thank you!
Just tried your remedy because I was way low left. You are correct sir and I'm grateful. After I switched to the flush plate and concentrated on my pinky position. My aim was almost 100% corrected. So thanks 😊
Mine is very accurate. Had a few failure to feeds with the first couple boxes of ammo, but disassembled and cleaned and lubricated well and have not had that since. Break-in periods Are REAL folks, don’t judge a fire arm too soon. I find this pistol very accurate, very tight on the rails and just needed a short well lubricated break-in period. Good job FN!
Yeah, once you get it down it shoots great. I’m sure there are some people with smaller hand sizes (and mine aren’t exactly the largest) that may have no problem using the minimal pinky rest magazine, but not me. If you notice on the HK VP9SK pinky-rest magazine the finger groove goes in kinda deep to put the pinky almost under the grip naturally. Whereas the SIG P365 pinky extension and 12-round extended magazine both flare out slightly forward at the bottom to keep the pinky “hooked” in from slipping down or off. I’m guessing with subcompacts, and especially slimmer micro-compacts you can’t just have a straight, minimalist pinky extension for most people. You’ve got to have the gun “hook” or “trap” the pinky in for you, if that makes sense. I guess maybe FN didn’t take that into consideration for folks with medium to larger hands? Glad I could help. I got the MRD version because that’s all I could find at the time and had the same concerns as you. I figured the MRD would have better resale value, but I’m really liking this gun now that I have it figured out. It’s a keeper.
Thank you so much for this explanation. I had ordered this gun last week and stumbled across these low/ left issues. I heard it was the rear sight needed to be changed and possibly re calibrated... Etc. I haven't picked it up yet but when I do I'll definately go with the flush plate. Thanks again!
That was cool. It's fun to see/hear a problem solver figure things out and fix it. So many of the demo guys were having that problem, and your solution makes sense. I know FN isn't going to try to sell a poorly designed gun, and your viewers are finding that your diagnosis is correct, which is great. I bet FN will make note of the issue and make their own fix. We'll see.
Yeah, definitely try it and let me know if it solves the problem for you as well. 1 flat base plate comes with the gun so no risk in trying the flat base plate if you’ve already got the gun. Takes less than a minute swap out.
I bought the non optics cut in black and recognized the low left had to be me from years of shooting. I was able to get my grip corrected to fix the low left, but the gun was still shooting about an inch left at 10 yards. So I adjusted my hold and ordered a site pusher. Fast forward 3 weeks, I love this gun so much I decided I wanted the optics cut, so I picked it up in the FDE. Low and behold, the new gun was spot on. I did drift the rear site of the black one about 1mm and it appears to be correct. What I noticed myself doing is putting to much finger on the trigger, and this is because of how small the gun is. My trigger finger is not bent as natural as it is for larger grips. But I do use the flush fit base plates and have not ever shot with them. If you are not used to micro compact pistols, they do require an adjustment. The one thing to note as I did reach out to FN about this, and they did the site picture is a combat hold, I prefer 6 O'clock. I have a request into their technical folks to recommend site changes to get a 6 o'clock hold, will see what they say....
Pardon my ignorance but can you enlighten me a bit on the combat hold vs the 6 oclock? Or if you’ve got any particular videos I could watch regarding it that’d be awesome too! Thanks!
Interesting findings. I have a Reflex and I’ve got over 1k through the gun. Been prefect, but it did shoot better with the 15rd mags for me. Early on I changed my sights and put Sig X-RAY sights on. I prefer the blacked out rear with smaller nights sights and the green dot front and it’s a great combo. I’ve put those Sig sights on my FN 509M and 509Compact too.
@@RighteousLiberty I knew the 509 had the same sight cut dimensionally as the Sig. I measured the reflex and found the dimensions identical to the 509. I don’t have a 510, but I don’t see why it would be different and a search should answer the question.
Cool video! I've seen videos where people had to grasp tighter or harder than normal with their support hand when using the pinky extension, but not so much with the 15 round mag. Very interesting 🤔
Yeah, without the pinky extension throwing off the balance or even grip distribution of your firing hand, it’s a lot easier to concentrate the firmness of your grip on the upper back strap under the slide - where it’s supposed to be concentrated.
Great Annalise on the grip extension. I would like to see a video on that because mine is low and left also. I will try your theory and see what happens. One person put his in a vise and it shot low and left still?? We'll see.
Shoots low left. Bore sight shows low left. Switched to #8 Sig sights same issue. Awaiting adjustable rear sight from miniature machine. Agree trigger pull style and hold style can affect aim but this pistol has an issue. Can really see it with the bore sight.
This doesn't explain why the gun shoot center with the same magazine as soon as they put a red dot optic on it. It might be poor quality control with the iron sights after all. See the Guns and Outdoors Channel.
I saw that. I think it has to do with the zeroing process. You are basically zeroing the gun with your grip bias, compensated for. So your getting a corrected sight picture. If you notice everyone said that even with the optic, the 15rd mag was better than the 11.
I think, sometimes these barrels aren't being cut 100% correct. QC problem. My Taurus GX4 had a always left problem even with the sights being dead center. My Canik MC9 barrel ramp wasn't cut right. Canik sending me another barrel on a swap. Bought their threaded barrel and the ramp is visibly different and feeds JHPs.
Yes, the 15-round mitigates the issue a little bit - especially once you realize what the issue is. However, even the 15-rounder doesn’t allow the gun to fill your hand in the spots it’s supposed to compared to the flush fitting magazine. While the 15-rounder does feel a little better, it still doesn’t naturally “lock” your pinky on the gun and doesn’t help much with forcing the back strap portion of the gun to fill your hand where it’s supposed to. Then again, I’m a guy who usually doesn’t like the feel of pinky extensions on smaller guns any way, but I usually don’t have as much trouble as I did with the one on the Reflex causing me to shoot low left at first. The only pinky extensions I’ve ever liked are the ones on the HK VP9SK with a groove to lock your pinky in (and also thicker gun to be fair), and while I don’t exactly like the one on the P365 I can tolerate it much better as it sticks out some at bottom to lock your pinky in. Plus the P365 just seems a little more ergonomic in general. To me that is where SIG shines the most - ergonomics.
I always wondered why i shot my G26 with the flush mag so well.. This makes a ton of sense. I just switched my base plate to the flush mag and it feels much better. I’ve even shot full sized pistols poorly and wondered why. All makes sense now. (I don’t have anyone really teaching my how to shoot well, and G26 was my first pistol.)
Glad I could help. That’s one of the reason a lot of reputable instructors recommend a gun with a full 3-fingered grip (at least a Glock 19 or SIG P320 Xcompact size or bigger) as a first handgun for most people - even people who aren’t so into guns and strictly want a gun for carry purposes. It’s harder to get good at shooting if starting off on a shorter gun where you can’t get a truly full & proper grip. Then once you get that down get something smaller for carry. I’d recommend checking out a compact/mid-size to add to your G26. Whether it’s a Glock 19, a FN 509 midsize or standard/full size, or a SIG P320 X-Carry or X-Compact. If you’re sure you like Glock stick with Glock, but if you think the grip angle harms your natural shooting ability as many do - maybe consider a brand change. However, the grip angle issue can be mitigated with the Gen 4 and Gen 5 back straps.
@@RighteousLibertyI’m a broke college student, i can only afford to have one gun. It was the G26, traded to a G19x, traded to a M&P 5.7 (couldn’t afford to practice but bad ass gun, and now the Reflex). I plan on keeping the reflex as i really like it but it’s like sometimes i can get it to hit POA, sometimes low left. Quirky gun for sure. What you’re saying makes a lot of sense about it being best to start with mid-full size. People think i’m crazy when i say i shoot better pinky off, but it makes sense that i never learned how to rest my pinky and not grip with it on a full grip size. I’m going to keep practicing with my FN and if need be switch to a #8 sized rear sight as it seems to fix this for a lot of people. I also wonder if FN (silently) addressed this. My serial number is 6XXX, pretty early. I spoke with a guy who has serial number 28XXX and is having no issues at all straight out the box, any magazine. Weird stuff. Great video btw.
two questions: Would this phenomenon of the pinky pulling the gun down and to the left then obtain with ALL pinky extensions? or Are the pinky extensions which have more of a "beak" design be unlikely to contribute to this? Wouldn't this inadvertent habit also obtain with a full sized handle or in this case with the 15 round magazine? One guy I recently watched failed to pull the trigger on one shot and you can clearly see he's already anticipating the recoil and his hand snaps down and to the left.
I’d say any pinky extension on a smaller gun like that of a micro-9mm that doesn’t have a “beak” sticking forward (P365 pinky extension) or a groove (VP9SK) to lock the finger in naturally. If a gun fills your hand enough where you’re not having to squeeze your pinky on intentionally I wouldn’t think it’s be an issue as I don’t experience it with other guns. May have to make a part 2 video as it’s probably easier to demonstrate than describe.
Damn. I need my pinky to fit even if it doesn’t do anything so I’d be stuck with the extension mag. I almost bought the FN last week but I’m gonna wait until a manual safety is available on the black version.
Well not everyone is having the issue with it shooting low-left using the factory pinky extension, but I would say enough of us are having the issue as it seems to be a common complaint. Which is what caused me to do some testing and make the video. Depending on your hand size/shape the pinky extension may work for you, or perhaps you could get an aftermarket pinky extension for it that has a groove for the pinky to sink into. Seeing as how there’s not a manual safety version of the 509 that I’m aware of, and the Reflex is not a striker-fired gun I wouldn’t hold your breath for a manual safety version.
@@RighteousLiberty I think there’s enough people shooting low left with this gun… I see it at our range and in our classes. FN is supposedly considering a safety version but it will be their typical weird manual safety.
I think you are onto something here at least for some of us, I noticed the same thing. That extension is not long enough for allot of hands. Someone will probably make an aftermarket extension or better yet How about a 12 rd mag with a bit longer extension? Also, would be nice if they would round off the 15-round mag at the bottom for a more comfortable feel.
As long as they keep the flush-fitting base plate readily available, I’d be open to a redesigned pinky extension. I say that because I think a longer pinky extension would make it harder for pocket carry - which I think is a nice carry method option to have for micro 9mms. Personally I think if they were simply able to cut a deep groove into the pinky extension like is done on the HK VP9SK pinky extension that would help as well. We’ll see what happens. Personally I’m content with the flat flush-fitting bass plate though as the solution for me, but I do think a redesigned pinky extension would be nice rather than making people buy aftermarket.
I am not familiar with the HK but I agree that it would be best if FN would redesign the extension and I would like one more round if doable. Seriously I say that because I really like the 12rd mag for the Sig P365 it feels much better in my hand, and it can still be pocket carried. By the way I took the little FN to the range today and focused my attention on keeping my pinky from squeezing too much and shots were center. I was shooting a little low and left previously and thought it was just me. Turns out it was, and your theory proved to be correct in my case. The 15 rd mag shot fine as well. As far as I can tell the gun is a very good little shooter, shooting was at 15 yards. Maybe I got mine before there were any issues with sights if that is what's going on for some. Thanks for your insights on this! @@RighteousLiberty
I agree with how the flush mag base feels compared to the extension. However I had a issue with the low left. My issue was that FN kicked my gun out of the door with a #6 height rear sight. I replaced my rear sight with a set of SIG dovetail, #8 Trijican Di sight. It tightened up my group size dramatically and it shoots POI and POA all the way out to 20 yards, which is farther than FN checks the sight with. I see where you are going with the logic, but I'd also highly recommend you inspect the sights. I left a very detailed post on 2 of the reddit groups regarding the issue. Several others have also experienced the same. I'm well over 1600 rounds through my reflex now, and it was definitely the sights and not the grip, though I will say I shoot it better without the pinky extension. The pinky extension only caused me to either shoot left, or right, and had zero bearing on shooting low. It would consistently group 3-6" low and 3-4 inches left, and after the mag base plate change, it was still low and either slightly right or slightly left, but still generally 3-4 inches low left. Slightly right groups were +p+ loads. The SIG #8 rear sight shoots exactly as the pistol should, and will shoot 5 rounds tighter than 3 inch groups at 50 feet. FN QC standard is 5 rounds into a 3 inch group at 50 feet with 124gr American Eagle ball ammo. If you call and ask FN QC, they don't guarantee where on the target it will group that 3". I also put all that info in my posts. When I finish up the video portion for my channel, I will deep dive the sight issue. I dig your video though, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who honed in on the pinky extension being less than optimal.
At ranges between 5 to 15 yards all my shots were pretty much centered & dead once I changed base plates. Although a maybe slightly on the lower end of the bullseye, but centered & grouped much better together nonetheless. I didn’t push it much further than 15 yards due to time & other constraints since it’s a micro 9mm anyway, and usually try to carry a bigger gun most of the time. I will eventually though.
This IS indeed BS because I’ve never ever used that pinky extension. I just put another 200 rounds through it using the 15rd mag two days ago and everything was low left. I picked up my G19.3, G43, and HK VP9SK and had NO issues
Mine shoots very low and left with both magazines. My Sig 365, or Sig 365 X Macro doesnt. My Springfirleld Hell Cat doesnt, and my Glock 43X doesn't. So, that being said, I can't see it being the size of the gun, at least in my situation. What you stated makes sense, but I don't think that's always the case.
You installed the flush fitting baseplate? Try it one more time with a new mindset: grab/grip it it like a traditional, notoriously high bore axis SIG and I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. I know the size, aesthetics, and more blocky style grip makes you and I want to grip it like a Glock. Just see what happens, but if it doesn’t work for you, I understand as it’s not intuitive with that gun.
@@ARsAndGlocksOhMy I really think the ergonomics are simply too skinny at the top…as I initially had a similar issue with the SIG P365 AXG legion - albeit far less of a degree. I really think the gun kind of “tricks” you into grabbing it too high - for lack of a better phrase. Whereas the flush fitting plate kinda forces the gun to sit higher in your hand due to your pinky going underarm the grip, as it’s unintuitively meant to be. I do think it’s somewhat of a con of the ergo if design, but it is what it is. Some that’s a deal breaker, some not.
@@RighteousLiberty I really like the gun, and hope to get it sorted out. I did have three light primer strikes, but all of them happened shooting TulAmmo, so there is that. It never happened with Winchester, or Blazer.
good theory. I shot mine the same day as my hellcat, of course the fn shot low and left. hellcat was dead nuts. I will try with just the thin base plate. The FN does have a much thinner grip so you would think grip wouldnt be an issue at all.
If you look at the SIG P365 the pinky extension slightly angles back forward/out to keep the pinky locked in. If you look at HK VP9SK pinky extension magazine it has a groove that allows the pinky to sink in/back to keep it locked it. I think depending on hand size, guns with smaller grips (i.e. micro 9mms) having a straight down/back angle doesn’t allow the pinky portion of your hand be “filled” as occurs with a full-size type grip, and thus the pinky isn’t locked in or “filled” naturally causing users with most hand sizes to overcompensate with the pinky. When I shot with the extension and tried to act like the extension wasn’t there - my shots were accurate, but as I mentioned in the video my pinky ended up sliding off and going under the pinky extension.
I don't think the pinky thing is the problem. In another video the guy mounted the gun on a vice and the gun still shot low left but the grouping was better. If you think you can shoot better than hickok 45 then hat off to you but I don't think that would be possible and hickok 45 misses alot with that gun and it's not because of a pinky thing.
Well the 15 was hit or miss for me. It wasn’t as bad as with the pinky extension magazine, but it wasn’t until I tried the flush fitting base plate that my groups really tightened up.
I’ve seen a video doing that, but just because it’s happened in a sample size of 1 or 2 (due to QC issues like misaligned sights or whatever) doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with the design of the gun. I’ve had more positive feedback from my suggested solution than I’ve seen videos of it shooting from a vice and shooting low left. Just saying.
@@RighteousLiberty thanks for the reply but it’s not just a small sample of qc issues, there are dozens of videos claiming the same problem. And the problem doesn’t go away when shooting the 15 rd mag. I’m an experienced shooter. This model does have a problem. Apparently there are some good ones out there. The reason I bought this is because Hickok 45 raved about how nice a gun this is and I trust his reviews!
@@dave_1958 I mean as I said in my video, I know better too and am an experienced shooter, but doing this helped. Even with the 15-round mag I don’t shoot it quite as accurately as I do with my pinky hanging off. I really believe it’s an ergonomic issue for some folks.
One video placed the gun in a vice and it shot low & left. In fact, every bullet went right in the same hole, which goes to the guns accuracy. Sounds like you might've gotten a better version than other people.
@@RighteousLibertyI just typed up a long reply but it’s not showing up so whatever lol but are your rear sights perfectly centered? Mine has a bit less space on the right side over the left. Also are you using a combat hold? Or centering the 3 dots. In order to line up the tops of the front and rear, it’s puts the front sight for slightly higher and I can almost see the slide in the sight picture. My front sight also has a slight gap between the slide - not in the dovetail slot but under the front and rear of the front sight. Thank you for your video and I will report back tomorrow after my third range trip with this (350 rounds so far)
@@Ollegram I’ll have to check the rest when I get home from work (providing my day doesn’t throw too much at me to cause me to forget), but I’m fairly certain my rear sights are centered and there isn’t much of a gap between slide & frame. I usually line up my sights and place front sight dead center of target.
@@RighteousLiberty it looks like if you reply with a link, UA-cam removes it lol. I linked the video with the gun in a vice that the original commenter mentioned. Either way, not a huge gap on mine either but I can stick the tip of my fingernail just under the front and rear edges of the sight. I will say even the black and FDE versions of the gun in FNs website have the slight gap as well. I didn’t get to hit the range with the flush mount baseplate today so a little bummed lol but I’m curious to see. I’m going to shoot a few rounds with my left hand to see what results I get
@@DarthRex4 Yeah, the trigger is different on the MRD-LE as it’s flat faced and has the trigger safety tab or whatever it’s called - kind of like a Glock, but the trigger is flat. I had the sights changed from suppressor height to standard height - so I can’t comment on how it’d shoot with them on. However, I’ve shot the FN 510 Tactical which has suppressor height sights and the traditional hinged FN 509 style trigger, and had no problems with accuracy
I like the tritium sights on your pistol. It’s my preference to have the rear sights dimmer than the front for defensive applications. Excellent explanation of the pinky rest issue. Years ago, when I carried a G27 as a BUG, I shot it better than my issued G22! My pinky finger was under the magazine as you pointed out in the video. Now I’m wanting this pistol! Thanks for the review!
Just bought the reflex a month ago and haven’t been able to try it out till today and lo and behold all the experiences about this thing shooting low left were true and I’m so glad I’m came across your video I’m going to try this out like you mentioned, thank you!
Just tried your remedy because I was way low left. You are correct sir and I'm grateful. After I switched to the flush plate and concentrated on my pinky position. My aim was almost 100% corrected. So thanks 😊
Glad I could help.
Mine is very accurate. Had a few failure to feeds with the first couple boxes of ammo, but disassembled and cleaned and lubricated well and have not had that since. Break-in periods Are REAL folks, don’t judge a fire arm too soon. I find this pistol very accurate, very tight on the rails and just needed a short well lubricated break-in period. Good job FN!
Thank you so much, I have been wanting to purchase this but saw the other videos and waited for more information, I think I’ll go ahead and get it
Yeah, once you get it down it shoots great. I’m sure there are some people with smaller hand sizes (and mine aren’t exactly the largest) that may have no problem using the minimal pinky rest magazine, but not me.
If you notice on the HK VP9SK pinky-rest magazine the finger groove goes in kinda deep to put the pinky almost under the grip naturally. Whereas the SIG P365 pinky extension and 12-round extended magazine both flare out slightly forward at the bottom to keep the pinky “hooked” in from slipping down or off. I’m guessing with subcompacts, and especially slimmer micro-compacts you can’t just have a straight, minimalist pinky extension for most people. You’ve got to have the gun “hook” or “trap” the pinky in for you, if that makes sense. I guess maybe FN didn’t take that into consideration for folks with medium to larger hands?
Glad I could help. I got the MRD version because that’s all I could find at the time and had the same concerns as you. I figured the MRD would have better resale value, but I’m really liking this gun now that I have it figured out. It’s a keeper.
I got one today love the gun gave it 152 rounds i had issues with the accuracy now you make sense great video.helpful
Today i was on the range and I see this video now, i will definitely try this next week. thanks for the video
Thank you so much for this explanation. I had ordered this gun last week and stumbled across these low/ left issues. I heard it was the rear sight needed to be changed and possibly re calibrated... Etc. I haven't picked it up yet but when I do I'll definately go with the flush plate. Thanks again!
That was cool. It's fun to see/hear a problem solver figure things out and fix it. So many of the demo guys were having that problem, and your solution makes sense. I know FN isn't going to try to sell a poorly designed gun, and your viewers are finding that your diagnosis is correct, which is great. I bet FN will make note of the issue and make their own fix.
We'll see.
Thanks, I appreciate it. I hope they make a better pinky extension, but doubt they will as a lot of folks are just making it work.
Thanks for the information. I love the gun but I have the same issue. I will give it a try and let you know the results. Thanks again.
Yeah, definitely try it and let me know if it solves the problem for you as well.
1 flat base plate comes with the gun so no risk in trying the flat base plate if you’ve already got the gun. Takes less than a minute swap out.
Thanks for sharing this information
I bought the non optics cut in black and recognized the low left had to be me from years of shooting. I was able to get my grip corrected to fix the low left, but the gun was still shooting about an inch left at 10 yards. So I adjusted my hold and ordered a site pusher. Fast forward 3 weeks, I love this gun so much I decided I wanted the optics cut, so I picked it up in the FDE. Low and behold, the new gun was spot on. I did drift the rear site of the black one about 1mm and it appears to be correct.
What I noticed myself doing is putting to much finger on the trigger, and this is because of how small the gun is. My trigger finger is not bent as natural as it is for larger grips. But I do use the flush fit base plates and have not ever shot with them. If you are not used to micro compact pistols, they do require an adjustment.
The one thing to note as I did reach out to FN about this, and they did the site picture is a combat hold, I prefer 6 O'clock. I have a request into their technical folks to recommend site changes to get a 6 o'clock hold, will see what they say....
Pardon my ignorance but can you enlighten me a bit on the combat hold vs the 6 oclock? Or if you’ve got any particular videos I could watch regarding it that’d be awesome too!
Thanks!
@@Ollegram6 o’clock = POI is right above your front sight. Combat hold = POI directly behind the front sight.
Interesting theory indeed. Thanks for the effort.
Good review! I think you are right about the pinky extension .
Yeah, hopefully they’ll redesign it to be more like the HK VP9SK pinky extension where the pinky sinks back a little.
Interesting findings. I have a Reflex and I’ve got over 1k through the gun. Been prefect, but it did shoot better with the 15rd mags for me. Early on I changed my sights and put Sig X-RAY sights on. I prefer the blacked out rear with smaller nights sights and the green dot front and it’s a great combo. I’ve put those Sig sights on my FN 509M and 509Compact too.
I didn’t know the SIG Sauer XRay3 night sights would fit / zero in accurately on FN 509 and Reflex guns. I wonder if same holds true for the FN 510?
@@RighteousLiberty I knew the 509 had the same sight cut dimensionally as the Sig. I measured the reflex and found the dimensions identical to the 509. I don’t have a 510, but I don’t see why it would be different and a search should answer the question.
@@joematiacio3449Hey good info. When aiming down the barrel what side dose the sight come off? Thanks
@@500hardcore From left - > right. I put a drop of oil on the dove tail the day before, came out easy in a vice w/punch.
@@joematiacio3449 Thanks you
Cool video! I've seen videos where people had to grasp tighter or harder than normal with their support hand when using the pinky extension, but not so much with the 15 round mag. Very interesting 🤔
Yeah, without the pinky extension throwing off the balance or even grip distribution of your firing hand, it’s a lot easier to concentrate the firmness of your grip on the upper back strap under the slide - where it’s supposed to be concentrated.
Great Annalise on the grip extension. I would like to see a video on that because mine is low and left also. I will try your theory and see what happens. One person put his in a vise and it shot low and left still?? We'll see.
I just came back from the range. You were right. I shot it a lot better after the base plate switch.
Shoots low left. Bore sight shows low left. Switched to #8 Sig sights same issue. Awaiting adjustable rear sight from miniature machine. Agree trigger pull style and hold style can affect aim but this pistol has an issue. Can really see it with the bore sight.
This doesn't explain why the gun shoot center with the same magazine as soon as they put a red dot optic on it. It might be poor quality control with the iron sights after all. See the Guns and Outdoors Channel.
I saw that. I think it has to do with the zeroing process. You are basically zeroing the gun with your grip bias, compensated for. So your getting a corrected sight picture. If you notice everyone said that even with the optic, the 15rd mag was better than the 11.
I think, sometimes these barrels aren't being cut 100% correct. QC problem. My Taurus GX4 had a always left problem even with the sights being dead center. My Canik MC9 barrel ramp wasn't cut right. Canik sending me another barrel on a swap. Bought their threaded barrel and the ramp is visibly different and feeds JHPs.
Mine shoots great! Very happy with it for my first gun
What about with the 15rd mag?
Yes, the 15-round mitigates the issue a little bit - especially once you realize what the issue is. However, even the 15-rounder doesn’t allow the gun to fill your hand in the spots it’s supposed to compared to the flush fitting magazine.
While the 15-rounder does feel a little better, it still doesn’t naturally “lock” your pinky on the gun and doesn’t help much with forcing the back strap portion of the gun to fill your hand where it’s supposed to.
Then again, I’m a guy who usually doesn’t like the feel of pinky extensions on smaller guns any way, but I usually don’t have as much trouble as I did with the one on the Reflex causing me to shoot low left at first. The only pinky extensions I’ve ever liked are the ones on the HK VP9SK with a groove to lock your pinky in (and also thicker gun to be fair), and while I don’t exactly like the one on the P365 I can tolerate it much better as it sticks out some at bottom to lock your pinky in. Plus the P365 just seems a little more ergonomic in general. To me that is where SIG shines the most - ergonomics.
It’s a QC issue. Some shoot well some don’t. I’m not going to test the waters. Really liked this gun but I’ll go with the shield plus at this point
I can’t speak for all of them, but I wouldn’t say it’s a QC issue. A few people have tried my remedy and it has worked for them as well.
did you have any issues with chambering rounds?
No. It has chambered Federal HST hollow points & Federal/American Eagle Syntech without any issues.
This gun has to be firmly gripped otherwise it will not rack well and will have issues chambering some rounds
I always wondered why i shot my G26 with the flush mag so well.. This makes a ton of sense. I just switched my base plate to the flush mag and it feels much better. I’ve even shot full sized pistols poorly and wondered why. All makes sense now. (I don’t have anyone really teaching my how to shoot well, and G26 was my first pistol.)
Glad I could help. That’s one of the reason a lot of reputable instructors recommend a gun with a full 3-fingered grip (at least a Glock 19 or SIG P320 Xcompact size or bigger) as a first handgun for most people - even people who aren’t so into guns and strictly want a gun for carry purposes. It’s harder to get good at shooting if starting off on a shorter gun where you can’t get a truly full & proper grip. Then once you get that down get something smaller for carry.
I’d recommend checking out a compact/mid-size to add to your G26. Whether it’s a Glock 19, a FN 509 midsize or standard/full size, or a SIG P320 X-Carry or X-Compact. If you’re sure you like Glock stick with Glock, but if you think the grip angle harms your natural shooting ability as many do - maybe consider a brand change. However, the grip angle issue can be mitigated with the Gen 4 and Gen 5 back straps.
@@RighteousLibertyI’m a broke college student, i can only afford to have one gun. It was the G26, traded to a G19x, traded to a M&P 5.7 (couldn’t afford to practice but bad ass gun, and now the Reflex). I plan on keeping the reflex as i really like it but it’s like sometimes i can get it to hit POA, sometimes low left. Quirky gun for sure.
What you’re saying makes a lot of sense about it being best to start with mid-full size. People think i’m crazy when i say i shoot better pinky off, but it makes sense that i never learned how to rest my pinky and not grip with it on a full grip size.
I’m going to keep practicing with my FN and if need be switch to a #8 sized rear sight as it seems to fix this for a lot of people.
I also wonder if FN (silently) addressed this. My serial number is 6XXX, pretty early. I spoke with a guy who has serial number 28XXX and is having no issues at all straight out the box, any magazine. Weird stuff. Great video btw.
two questions: Would this phenomenon of the pinky pulling the gun down and to the left then obtain with ALL pinky extensions? or Are the pinky extensions which have more of a "beak" design be unlikely to contribute to this? Wouldn't this inadvertent habit also obtain with a full sized handle or in this case with the 15 round magazine? One guy I recently watched failed to pull the trigger on one shot and you can clearly see he's already anticipating the recoil and his hand snaps down and to the left.
I’d say any pinky extension on a smaller gun like that of a micro-9mm that doesn’t have a “beak” sticking forward (P365 pinky extension) or a groove (VP9SK) to lock the finger in naturally.
If a gun fills your hand enough where you’re not having to squeeze your pinky on intentionally I wouldn’t think it’s be an issue as I don’t experience it with other guns. May have to make a part 2 video as it’s probably easier to demonstrate than describe.
Damn. I need my pinky to fit even if it doesn’t do anything so I’d be stuck with the extension mag. I almost bought the FN last week but I’m gonna wait until a manual safety is available on the black version.
Well not everyone is having the issue with it shooting low-left using the factory pinky extension, but I would say enough of us are having the issue as it seems to be a common complaint. Which is what caused me to do some testing and make the video.
Depending on your hand size/shape the pinky extension may work for you, or perhaps you could get an aftermarket pinky extension for it that has a groove for the pinky to sink into.
Seeing as how there’s not a manual safety version of the 509 that I’m aware of, and the Reflex is not a striker-fired gun I wouldn’t hold your breath for a manual safety version.
@@RighteousLiberty I think there’s enough people shooting low left with this gun… I see it at our range and in our classes.
FN is supposedly considering a safety version but it will be their typical weird manual safety.
Good one
I think you are onto something here at least for some of us, I noticed the same thing. That extension is not long enough for allot of hands. Someone will probably make an aftermarket extension or better yet How about a 12 rd mag with a bit longer extension? Also, would be nice if they would round off the 15-round mag at the bottom for a more comfortable feel.
As long as they keep the flush-fitting base plate readily available, I’d be open to a redesigned pinky extension. I say that because I think a longer pinky extension would make it harder for pocket carry - which I think is a nice carry method option to have for micro 9mms.
Personally I think if they were simply able to cut a deep groove into the pinky extension like is done on the HK VP9SK pinky extension that would help as well. We’ll see what happens. Personally I’m content with the flat flush-fitting bass plate though as the solution for me, but I do think a redesigned pinky extension would be nice rather than making people buy aftermarket.
I am not familiar with the HK but I agree that it would be best if FN would redesign the extension and I would like one more round if doable. Seriously I say that because I really like the 12rd mag for the Sig P365 it feels much better in my hand, and it can still be pocket carried. By the way I took the little FN to the range today and focused my attention on keeping my pinky from squeezing too much and shots were center. I was shooting a little low and left previously and thought it was just me. Turns out it was, and your theory proved to be correct in my case. The 15 rd mag shot fine as well. As far as I can tell the gun is a very good little shooter, shooting was at 15 yards. Maybe I got mine before there were any issues with sights if that is what's going on for some. Thanks for your insights on this! @@RighteousLiberty
I agree with how the flush mag base feels compared to the extension. However I had a issue with the low left.
My issue was that FN kicked my gun out of the door with a #6 height rear sight.
I replaced my rear sight with a set of SIG dovetail, #8 Trijican Di sight.
It tightened up my group size dramatically and it shoots POI and POA all the way out to 20 yards, which is farther than FN checks the sight with.
I see where you are going with the logic, but I'd also highly recommend you inspect the sights.
I left a very detailed post on 2 of the reddit groups regarding the issue. Several others have also experienced the same.
I'm well over 1600 rounds through my reflex now, and it was definitely the sights and not the grip, though I will say I shoot it better without the pinky extension.
The pinky extension only caused me to either shoot left, or right, and had zero bearing on shooting low.
It would consistently group 3-6" low and 3-4 inches left, and after the mag base plate change, it was still low and either slightly right or slightly left, but still generally 3-4 inches low left.
Slightly right groups were +p+ loads.
The SIG #8 rear sight shoots exactly as the pistol should, and will shoot 5 rounds tighter than 3 inch groups at 50 feet.
FN QC standard is 5 rounds into a 3 inch group at 50 feet with 124gr American Eagle ball ammo. If you call and ask FN QC, they don't guarantee where on the target it will group that 3".
I also put all that info in my posts. When I finish up the video portion for my channel, I will deep dive the sight issue.
I dig your video though, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who honed in on the pinky extension being less than optimal.
At ranges between 5 to 15 yards all my shots were pretty much centered & dead once I changed base plates. Although a maybe slightly on the lower end of the bullseye, but centered & grouped much better together nonetheless.
I didn’t push it much further than 15 yards due to time & other constraints since it’s a micro 9mm anyway, and usually try to carry a bigger gun most of the time. I will eventually though.
Maybe because I shoot left handed I don’t have that problem with mine . I can hit 3 inch steel target at 10 yards
This IS indeed BS because I’ve never ever used that pinky extension. I just put another 200 rounds through it using the 15rd mag two days ago and everything was low left. I picked up my G19.3, G43, and HK VP9SK and had NO issues
The only thing that is BS is your dumb ass comment, but sure argue with results like a “we Todd.”
Mine shoots very low and left with both magazines. My Sig 365, or Sig 365 X Macro doesnt. My Springfirleld Hell Cat doesnt, and my Glock 43X doesn't. So, that being said, I can't see it being the size of the gun, at least in my situation. What you stated makes sense, but I don't think that's always the case.
You installed the flush fitting baseplate? Try it one more time with a new mindset: grab/grip it it like a traditional, notoriously high bore axis SIG and I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. I know the size, aesthetics, and more blocky style grip makes you and I want to grip it like a Glock. Just see what happens, but if it doesn’t work for you, I understand as it’s not intuitive with that gun.
@@RighteousLiberty I'll give it a try next time I go to the range for sure, but what explains it doing it with the 15 round magazine?
@@ARsAndGlocksOhMy
I really think the ergonomics are simply too skinny at the top…as I initially had a similar issue with the SIG P365 AXG legion - albeit far less of a degree. I really think the gun kind of “tricks” you into grabbing it too high - for lack of a better phrase. Whereas the flush fitting plate kinda forces the gun to sit higher in your hand due to your pinky going underarm the grip, as it’s unintuitively meant to be. I do think it’s somewhat of a con of the ergo if design, but it is what it is. Some that’s a deal breaker, some not.
@@RighteousLiberty I really like the gun, and hope to get it sorted out. I did have three light primer strikes, but all of them happened shooting TulAmmo, so there is that. It never happened with Winchester, or Blazer.
good theory. I shot mine the same day as my hellcat, of course the fn shot low and left. hellcat was dead nuts. I will try with just the thin base plate. The FN does have a much thinner grip so you would think grip wouldnt be an issue at all.
If you look at the SIG P365 the pinky extension slightly angles back forward/out to keep the pinky locked in. If you look at HK VP9SK pinky extension magazine it has a groove that allows the pinky to sink in/back to keep it locked it.
I think depending on hand size, guns with smaller grips (i.e. micro 9mms) having a straight down/back angle doesn’t allow the pinky portion of your hand be “filled” as occurs with a full-size type grip, and thus the pinky isn’t locked in or “filled” naturally causing users with most hand sizes to overcompensate with the pinky.
When I shot with the extension and tried to act like the extension wasn’t there - my shots were accurate, but as I mentioned in the video my pinky ended up sliding off and going under the pinky extension.
Hahahaahhaha. I’m dead nuts with my reflex and low left with my hellcat. It’s funny how different we hold guns.
I own an FN REFLEX MRD WITH A HOLSUN 507K AND A BLACK POINT TACTICAL IWB HOLSTER. I'VE RUN OVER 2000 ROUNDS WITH NO PROBLEMS. IT'S MY EDC
I don't think the pinky thing is the problem. In another video the guy mounted the gun on a vice and the gun still shot low left but the grouping was better. If you think you can shoot better than hickok 45 then hat off to you but I don't think that would be possible and hickok 45 misses alot with that gun and it's not because of a pinky thing.
And yet I’ve corrected the issue by simply removing the pinky extension. All my shots were dead on. Can’t argue with results.
@@RighteousLiberty Too many people claim the low left and even with the gun in a vice, but if it worked for you then that's great.
@@kawikadee9670
And yet someone else has commented on this very video and said the gun is dead center when it’s shot using a stabilizing device.
@@RighteousLiberty 🤔
interesting find, but I disagree. At least in my case I was shooting worse with the 15 round mag than I was with the 11 round and pinky extension.
Well the 15 was hit or miss for me. It wasn’t as bad as with the pinky extension magazine, but it wasn’t until I tried the flush fitting base plate that my groups really tightened up.
I’ve watched guys put this gun in a vise and it still shoots low left, just as mine does. FN has a problem and they won’t fix it.
I’ve seen a video doing that, but just because it’s happened in a sample size of 1 or 2 (due to QC issues like misaligned sights or whatever) doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with the design of the gun. I’ve had more positive feedback from my suggested solution than I’ve seen videos of it shooting from a vice and shooting low left. Just saying.
@@RighteousLiberty thanks for the reply but it’s not just a small sample of qc issues, there are dozens of videos claiming the same problem. And the problem doesn’t go away when shooting the 15 rd mag. I’m an experienced shooter. This model does have a problem. Apparently there are some good ones out there. The reason I bought this is because Hickok 45 raved about how nice a gun this is and I trust his reviews!
@@dave_1958
I mean as I said in my video, I know better too and am an experienced shooter, but doing this helped. Even with the 15-round mag I don’t shoot it quite as accurately as I do with my pinky hanging off. I really believe it’s an ergonomic issue for some folks.
@@RighteousLiberty thanks for the conversation. I’m glad it’s working for you. God bless and have a great day!
damn almost every one complaint low left
One video placed the gun in a vice and it shot low & left. In fact, every bullet went right in the same hole, which goes to the guns accuracy. Sounds like you might've gotten a better version than other people.
Where is this video?
ua-cam.com/video/QB_3GeDCjxo/v-deo.htmlsi=FiggcM7H67Z4o0Bx
@@RighteousLibertyI just typed up a long reply but it’s not showing up so whatever lol but are your rear sights perfectly centered? Mine has a bit less space on the right side over the left.
Also are you using a combat hold? Or centering the 3 dots. In order to line up the tops of the front and rear, it’s puts the front sight for slightly higher and I can almost see the slide in the sight picture. My front sight also has a slight gap between the slide - not in the dovetail slot but under the front and rear of the front sight.
Thank you for your video and I will report back tomorrow after my third range trip with this (350 rounds so far)
@@Ollegram
I’ll have to check the rest when I get home from work (providing my day doesn’t throw too much at me to cause me to forget), but I’m fairly certain my rear sights are centered and there isn’t much of a gap between slide & frame. I usually line up my sights and place front sight dead center of target.
@@RighteousLiberty it looks like if you reply with a link, UA-cam removes it lol. I linked the video with the gun in a vice that the original commenter mentioned.
Either way, not a huge gap on mine either but I can stick the tip of my fingernail just under the front and rear edges of the sight.
I will say even the black and FDE versions of the gun in FNs website have the slight gap as well.
I didn’t get to hit the range with the flush mount baseplate today so a little bummed lol but I’m curious to see. I’m going to shoot a few rounds with my left hand to see what results I get
What about the FTF issue that many (or so it seems) are having? Those issues could be the glock fan base folks that are smearing.
It's operator error! Bench rest and watch the bullseye,s stack up.
my 509c tactical shot low for me as well
I’ve never shot a 509C. I’ve only shot the midsize MRD-LE (“LAPD gun” variant,) but it was dead center accurate.
@@RighteousLiberty for me i was thinking it could have been a mix of the sights being so high and the trigger
@@DarthRex4
Yeah, the trigger is different on the MRD-LE as it’s flat faced and has the trigger safety tab or whatever it’s called - kind of like a Glock, but the trigger is flat. I had the sights changed from suppressor height to standard height - so I can’t comment on how it’d shoot with them on.
However, I’ve shot the FN 510 Tactical which has suppressor height sights and the traditional hinged FN 509 style trigger, and had no problems with accuracy
Just like a Golf club.
I'm sorry but JJ RACAZA will destroy your pinky theory. One of the best shooters in the world. He DEFINITELY applies pressure with his pinky.
There’s nothing to destroy. Firearm instructors will tell you the same thing and my results speak for themselves.
I like the tritium sights on your pistol. It’s my preference to have the rear sights dimmer than the front for defensive applications.
Excellent explanation of the pinky rest issue. Years ago, when I carried a G27 as a BUG, I shot it better than my issued G22! My pinky finger was under the magazine as you pointed out in the video.
Now I’m wanting this pistol! Thanks for the review!
Thank ye.
This gun is for women or men with tiny hands!
It shoots great! YOU shoot it low and left.😂
No, I do NOT shoot it low & left anymore. Hence the video.
@@RighteousLiberty good for you! Glad you figured that out!
stabilize the gun with sandbags on a table and everyone will find out the gun shoots straight. Thats what i did.
People have used vices and observed low left shooting.
That’s interesting but it would have been more convincing to include a demonstration of shooting with the flat base plate.