Amtrak Empire Line: Penn Station to DV
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- Опубліковано 16 лют 2016
- Reverse railfan window view out the back of Amtrak Empire Service Train #235 as it starts its run at Penn Station and travels up the Empire Connection to the Empire Line on the way to Metro North territory at DV interlocking, just past the Inwood Movable Bridge
The Empire Line was the former West Side freight route down the island of Manhattan serving all the industry and docks that used to reside in the city itself. Much of the line was overbuilt with parkland on the northern end and contemporary residential towers on the southern end.
This run sees some speed restrictions across the Inwood Bridge. The train departed Penn Station about 20 minutes later after waiting for a southbound train to clear up after single tracking all the way from DV. - Авто та транспорт
Great video! Never seen this part of the Empire Corridor on UA-cam before. Really neat!
Thanks for the Video. Very interesting how this line subterraneanly goes north from Penn Central to join the NYC Hudson River railroad lines. A little sad there wasn't enough railroad freight to keep it active as a freight line, but good that Amtrak was able to. use it to connect its north Hudson River lines to Penn Central Station and not just to Grand Central Terminal. It goes to single track although it looks like is was originally constructed to support at least two tracks. Quite a few comments have expressed interest in wondering if the line could accept Amtrak double decker SuperLiner cars. I think any future planning for Amtrak should include clearance for at least that and should use the much more future proof clearance of double stack container freight trains. That is effectively the new normal clearance being built to and would allow even bigger double decker passenger cars in the future. It should be pointed out that Indian broad gauge railroads currently have double stack container trains that don't require well cars because of the added stability of 5' 6" board gauge under a high an electric catenary. In fact, it is strange NYC doesn't seem to support double stack container trains when it is becoming more and more the standard for shipping by train.
It is so odd that they only light some of the tunnels. Super cool, spooky effect!
It’s cause they want the empire train tracks hidden
I used to think that that vent at 8:23 was the entrance to a jail cell. The reason is that on the other side is an exit ramp/road from the HRP leading to 95th street. Whenever my family would drive into the upper west side of Manhattan, we would get off of that exit and pass by the vent. Because of its stone arch appearance and creepy gates, I for some really weird reason assumed it to be the entrance to a solitary confinement cell. Only years later did I realize it was merely a vent for Freedom Tunnel. Had I taken an Amtrak train along the line, I would have figured it out sooner. However, I have never done so.
Great video. Clean window made all the difference.
5:00 ...Dam !!! That’s what I call darkness!!!!
Yes! Thank you! I have been looking for a video of this for weeks, thanks for the great video!
Way to go, Jersey Mike. Awesome video. 👍👍👍👍
7:44-10:13 the infamous "Freedom Tunnel." The documentary "dark days" was filmed there, and it had some of the largest graffiti murals left in the city until they painted over it in 2015.
There's still people that live down there even though Amtrak kicked most of them out.
Will be sure to check that doc out sometime soon. Happy Thanksgiving.
I've been down their so many times it's fun, done a fair amount of graffiti as well
Amtrak should allowed for a 125th st station to be used for the far west side
@@alberthoward8859 I really appreciate how you're interested in the subject! I want to say though, not for about 20 years. The area saw an economic boom under riverside with Fairway, Dinosaur Barbecue (which is still there, check it out!) and a ton of nightclubs like the Hudson River Cafe. Its mostly all run down now like it was before. Theres some staples listed above, but even Fairway is gone which was a destination supermarket for many folks.
Columbia University owns much of the property under Riverside Drive now by the exit of the tunnel and I mean, unless they provide some residential non student non alumni housing plus separate private corporate tower zoning, I don't see how a station for AMTRAK is feasible because it won't generate the revenue.
Great video! Thanks!
Great filming, as usual! Very realistic ride. I'll miss the open cut between the 10th Street tunnel portal and the West side of NYP. I remember staring down into that cut in the middle and late 1960's, watching all the GG1's and LIRR gray MU cars. I have vague memories of Penn Station as a huge, dark, and particularly dirty place. Was just a small kid then, riding the LIRR from NYP all the way out the Main Line to GY. Was diesel from JAY Eastward. I'd still like to see one of you rail video gurus film from KO to GY on the Main Line. Thank you for your fine filming in the past!!!
Great, great, GREAT video!!! Jersey Mike, with this video a question that I've had since the mid 70's has been answered. I grew up on the upper west side of Manhattan at 133rd. St./Amsterdam Ave. and can remember seeing freight action and on only one occasion, I saw some vintage Pullman heavy weights from my bedroom window (18th floor) as our apartment faced Broadway and Riverside Drive so I got to not only use the #1 train (Broadway local), but also to see it daily as I Ioved the subway which came out of the ground northbound at 123rd St and was elevated until 135th St. where it went underground again. From my window I was able to see clear down to 125th St./Riverside Dr. & the Hudson River. All through high school in the 70's and every time I drove on the West side highway (north or south), I always wondered what became of those railroad tracks under Riverside Dr. Park between 79th through 125th St. I always wondered why they were abandoned, and if they would ever be used again and what a shame it was that they were abandoned in the first place. Were those the old New York Central RR tracks? Last year I'd heard that they were in use again, by both Amtrak and allegedly Metro-North so I called Amtrak and confirmed that to be true to my surprise and delight. That was last August when I was in NYC, and this August I'll return and hope to ride that Amtrak Empire Service train. As a subscriber to your fine channel, I had checked to see if you had a video of this route as well as other channels with no luck and was going to request if you could record a video on that line and here it is! Thank you so very much for this video particularly, I moved from NYC 29 years ago and since I returned to the hobby of model railroading in 2011, I again began to wonder about this line. I'm thrilled that it's being used again, thank you and great job!
+bhigdaddymark Glad to be of service.
I live in 125th street and when I go there, 1 out 10 times I hear that line operate
I grew up on Riverside Drive near 125th Street and I remember the freight trains as they moved downtown to what is now High Line Park. The part of the video between 9-10 minutes, with the series of overhead grates, is right under Riverside Park where I played as a kid. I don't live in New York anymore, but several years ago I returned to the City and did some rail fanning. I took the Amtrak Empire Service from Penn Station north to Poughkeepsie then took Metro North back to Grand Central Terminal, It is well worth the ride, very beautiful scenery along the river. Mark, it sounds like we lived within a block or two of each other, but I moved out of the neighborhood (left the nest of my parent's apartment) in1974.
5:35 is like death..the light at the end of the tunnel getting dimmer
Spooky, but great. Knew about the tracks and tunnel under Manhattan. First time seeing it.
It's kind of ridiculous that the train takes this long to get out of Manhattan. It's only a little more than 10 miles. Obviously leaving Penn there are a lot of switches and sharp curves but once it gets on to the West Side Line proper it's almost dead straight and it's still pretty slow.
There's a lot of overbuilds which have vibration limits and such.
Great video. Must have been amazing how they built this under all the buildings.
Nice Vid. I heard the Empire connector is now closed for renovations along with the bridge at Spuyten Duyvil and Amtrak is back to running the Empire down the mainline into GCT.
I thought it went to Queens on LIRR tracks, then across the Hellgate Bridge to the Bronx.
Awesome video!
I assume they use P32 AC-DMs on this route? Didn't know they could switch power modes while in motion. Very cool!
Trainzguy2472 Yes They do & they switch to diesel as soon as they leave Penn Station !!!
Nice.. this is the only trackage in the City of NY that carries passenger trains and it is not electrified.
+JAY MORGENTHAL Only since service was suspended on the Montauk Branch.
Correct.. I thought of that. Even LIC and Hunterspoint Ave have 3rd rail. The lower Montauk used to host one Oyster Bay am train.
Supposedly there's an electrified block that ends somewhere south of 63rd Street anyway, but may not be electrified down into Penn Station itself.
Oh here's Wikipedia anyway, reliable or not. A short section of single track into Penn Station was electrified using third rail and overhead catenary, since diesel locomotives are not allowed in Penn Station's tunnels. North of 41st Street, the single track expands into two tracks and electrification on the line ends. A wye was constructed next to Track 2 (the westernmost track) to allow diesels to turn around. South of 49th Street, there is a crossover from Track 1 (the easternmost track) to Track 2, and another siding splits off Track 2 at 49th Street. The Empire Connection was double-tracked north of 39th Street to south of the Spuyten Duyvil Bridge in the mid-1990s.
Great video. Thanks, always wanted to see this. One of Amtrak's best ideas was building this connection. As an aside I was always interested in how enticingly close a Superliner could get to Penn Station for equipping the Lake Shore Limited. Add a new platform and remove or raise the wires and I think you possibly could do it. It of course would have to be serviced somewhere on the connection. Just dreaming maybe.
BostonGuy The Superliners can’t run into Penn Station because tight clearance & the NEC In general overhead bridges also is another factor !!! I heard when NJ Transit 1st received the MultiLevel Equipment, cleared the portal tunnels by inches !!!
@@cehayes74 That's because of the low North or Hudson River Tunnels on he NEC. This is an entirely different approach to Penn Station which was built for freight trains and looks to be high enough. Would love to know the actual clearance.
BostonGuy Well actually it isn’t high enough. They tried back in the 1980’s but the farthest east they made it was Philadelphia !!!
@@cehayes74 Hello ce. I really appreciate your reply but are you aware of where this line is? This is not the NEC and comes into New York from the north. It's a totally different line.
BostonGuy This is the Westside Connector rebuilt back from the 1990’s when Amtrak wanted to consolidate the Canada & Chicago trains into Penn Station. It connects back with Metro North’s Hudson Line single track !!!
thanks for sharing. I'm taking this in for new years eve. bucket list items. Train to NYC and time square ball drop. didn't know what to expect. flown in, drove in. never train.
Don’t do the ball drop. Security requires people to be penned in for many hours.
Great Video! I always enjoy seeing it. Is it possible for you to do the Keystone Corridor from Philadelphia to Harrisburg?
+CSXTrainBoy815 Maybe at some point if I'm on the Pennsylvanian again.
So this is how Metro North will enter Penn Station once Eastside Access is complete and more slots become available.....
No the East side access is LIRR - they will use the bridge Amtrak uses for Acela and NorthEast Regional trains that connect to New Haven. This track goes north and merges with Metro Norths Hudson line at Spyten Dyvil - actually is quite cool to see this - I take train to NYC every day - and always see this bridge, but never go on it. Its going to be a WHILE though. Hudson line trains going to PENN this way are part of PHase 2 - but its not funded.
Penn Station Access, a project we may never see come to fruition
Only P32DM locomotives running on third rail power can enter that tunnel. if there is an issue with them not being able to draw LIRR current an electric could hook up where the cantenary is and then tow it into penn.
East side Access is LIRR
Penn Station Access is MN. A Hudson line project sadly was never confirmed
@@jaymorgenthal9479 I’ve seen P42s in the Hudson line Leading into Penn Station. They just minimize the amount of fumes coming from the locomotive
I loved that video I use to live in Riverdale and that was the next stop I hope you make some more of those videos
I wonder the other side going toward doesn't it have a base like a half moon or the underpass is part of the tunnel
Couple of things I find interesting about this line:
- The amount of open cut between W35th St. - W49th St (by which I mean literally, places with no buildings over them). I was gonna count W59st - W61st, but as of a recent Google satellite image update, it appears that cut is being covered with construction). I wonder how long those open areas will continue to exist before necessity calls for them to be covered with new buildings.
- The amount of space surrounding the ROW, even covered by buildings, spaces that look as if they could hold anywhere from 3 tracks, to 6 tracks (or many, many more than THAT even). (north of the W35th - W49th street stretch). I know there were rail yards in that area from the 30s (and earlier, maybe) through the early-mid 1980s, some of which was used at least as car parking the mid 1990s. Do you think that at least some of that space makes up what I am seeing?
I live on 61st and WEA. I kept hearing trains going through but I had no idea there is a railroad beneath my apartment building! I moved in early 2015 but I had never seen the opening. Weird.
Wow. Learned so much on this ride. Alot 'a single track operation in Manhattan. One track into Penn Station from this route! And I had no idea that it was a single track on the drawbridge that goes through Spyten Duyvil (don't know if I spelled that right). First time I saw the connection to Metro-North! If they want Metro-North to go into Penn Station why don't they take that route down the west side of Manhattan into Penn Station. And shout out to the kids & that unbelievable graffiti on the way up, & especially that amazing face on the wall! Great view of the G W Bridge & northbound traffic on the Henry Hudson Pkwy, which rarely is moving fast enough to keep up with the train. Great video! Wish you had it all the way to Albany! I believe you can hit Montreal on this route too right?
See my others videos. I have coverage all the way to Albany. Search "Hudson Line".
Would be nice to know what street we are passing
Please, when this video was made?
Thanks for the video, I've taken the Empire Connection about a half dozen times and I've always been intrigued by that third track to the right, visible roughly from 3:45 to 4:09. Any idea if it is it ever used these days or is it just abandoned from the old NYC days - maybe it had to do with the High Line before the connection was severed?
That is part of an old disused underground wye. If you pause the video at 3:52, you can see another tunnel that curves off towards the right. It has a couple lights on the wall and appears to have a vent hole for daylight to enter. The other leg of the wye (out of service) diverged from the main somewhere around the first 2 lights in the main tunnel (3:42) to the right of the old flatcars on the 3rd track. What I believe is the tunnel box for the wye is shown in this aerial. goo.gl/maps/aLUmbXxNHgfSs1eX9
@@trainzguy2472 Ah, thanks very much for the reply, I appreciate the info as it's like NYC railroad archeology to me. Also, perhaps you know this: Though I can't quite spot it in the video, once you are in the actual, "recently" built tunnel, the one that loops into the station, I thought I remembered a diverging tunnel off towards the Hudson and reachable by trains inbound to NYP (outbounds would have to back into it). Does that exist or am I remembering it wrong, it's been a few years since my last trip to Gotham on the Empire Connection. Thanks again.
To add a little more, maybe they are one and the same and I just remember the location wrong, or are there two wyes, one active and one abandoned? There is a little more info on a Trains magazine forum but it's not quite clear.
@@hbeals5921 I'm not sure about that other diverging tunnel, you're probably thinking of the connection to what is now the Highline trail. I believe that connection diverged from the Empire Connection just before the entrance to the curving single-track approach tunnel to Penn Station. I don't think there was ever an underground branch in that tunnel.
NOTE: I have never even been to NYC before, I just like to call myself an amateur railroad historian. I simply enjoy researching various railroads and their infrastructure whenever I come across something interesting about them.
@@trainzguy2472 Well, I thank you again for your replies. Funny, I used to live on Long Island from the early 70s to mid 80s, I'd go to Manhattan a lot, but I never really saw the High Line much or recognized it for what it was. I think mainly because in those days there was a rule of thumb not to wander past 8th Avenue as things got dicey neighborhood-wise. Now of course it's being built up like crazy.
That's really cool. I was just reading about this, because I had no idea that there were any tracks exiting Northbound from Penn Station. They aren't shown on most track diagrams at least intended for the public to see. Can you start on almost any platform at Penn Station to get into the tunnel?
I believe only tracks 1-8 or 1-9 can access the Empire Connection.
@@PositionLight Thanks for the replies, Jersey Mike. Yeah I looked again at other diagrams and looks like it's the Southern half of the tracks at best - you must be right. Take care.
Nice that derail switch at 19:37!
Passengers don't respond well to drowning.
@@PositionLight The switch at 22:34 prevents unauthorized access to the bridge.
Around 3:34 I wonder what the address is there, approximately, and whether there's anywhere to stand and watch the trains from above. On the other hand afaik not many trains use this passage.
It's between 37th and 38th St near the Lincoln Tunnel entrance and I think there are a few places for photos.
@@PositionLight Thank you sir.
At what point (above Central Park) does the tunnel end? What is the cross street?
Gran Torino I believe it's around 125th
That is Riverside Park it goes under.
Jersey Mike, are you a conductor or attendant, and if so, is your base NYC?
+norman mckenzie Nope, just a Business class passenger.
Nice
I've heard that Chicago/Montreal/Toronto trains only started using this tunnel in 1991. What was it used for prior to then?
Amtrak ran NY state operations out of Grand Central. The old Amtrak waiting area is still there by like track 27
I was under the impression the trains had to stop to switch locomotives from electric to Diesel, not so?
jamesthemaniac the engine is actually a hybrid
Hi Mike, can you tell me please, why there is no open cut just west of Penn Station shown?
Didn't you cut it out from a video? The trip appears to be daytime, and an open cut is supposed to be seen.
Amtrak sold the air rights and the open air block was covered over with a building.
Is it true, that the same is going to happen with WEst Side Yards (LIRR)
Correct.
interesting, I live not so far (just an hour away) and know nothing about West Side Branch Operation.
How long ago was the catenary places over those tracks?
When the connection was installed.
I am a bit confused here? I see a short stretch of catenary, then tracks with no third rail until DV, did not think they could run under diesel power into Penn Station??
Amtrak uses P32AC-DM dual-mode locomotives that switch to 3rd rail at the mouth of the Penn Station tunnel.
@@PositionLight Ok, after reviewing the video, I see the third rail, but also see catanary> What is that used for?
@@Robbi496 In case they need to do an impromptu power change with an electric to tow a non-dual mode loco into the station.
Single track out of the station?
Ok, what was this trackage before it became the "Empire connection?
It used to be the New York Central's "West Side Line." It was used to transport freight to midtown and lower Manhattan. Then freight traffic to Manhattan disappeared and it was abandoned. The elevated part South of Penn Station became the High Line Park, and then they built the connection to Penn Station, which meant Amtrak could consolidate all of their NYC operations in Penn Station.
@@ericjamieson Yeah it's really cool you can walk on that High Line now - never heard of it until today, but it looks really kind of interesting. They even reconstructed some of the rail on it at least, as kind of a symbol anyway
@@elainefairchilde7982 Yeah it's pretty neat. I took a walk along it the last time I was in NYC. They did indeed rebuild a short piece of track to show its railroad heritage. It's also interesting that they've built a few new buildings over it that loom awkwardly because part of the deal to convert it into a park was they couldn't build any major permanent structures that would obstruct it from being turned back into a rail line.
Not that it's likely in the near future - there's not much demand for rail freight in Manhattan and it was never built to be used as a passenger line since all of the New York Central's passenger trains used what's now the Metro-North Hudson and Harlem lines into Grand Central.
@@ericjamieson So there is discussions about the Metro north Hudson line (which I take to NYC for work) to use this line after the East Side Access is completed (LIRR going to grand central). But there are some obvious problems - first Metro NOrth Hudson line uses 3rd rail, and in PENN apparently its all cater-nary. ON top of that - there is NO electrification between the Bridge and PENN itself. I see this as not really a problem as Hudson line trains that start north of Croton (Poughkeepsie and Beacon) have the Hybrid Genesis locomotives. I only care about this is now my office is closer to PENN than GCT.
Other than that - yeah - currently that section of track is used solely for the few Amtrak trains that are going to Albany, or FROM Albany to PENN. Not sure how many but its not all that much.
jwace Amtrak uses 3rd rail into penn station
Why don't they ever consider double tracking the Inwood Movable Bridge?
It would add weight, double the amount of bits that can go wrong and only have a slight increase in capacity.
The bridge originally carried two tracks, but for freight. Given current service patterns, it would be pointless to add a second track without building a flying junction to replace DV interlocking so that two trains could use the bridge simultaneously and smoothly merge onto the Hudson line. Without that, doubling the capacity of the bridge would be of little value.
What does DV mean?
I have a couple quick questions...How to you film this?...Did you mount your camera on a tripod or stick it to the window?
Suction Cup to window.
When did the diesel engine kick in?
As soon as it cleared the tunnel.
The third rail ends in the tunnel. so it switches on the fly after it leaves it.
As soon as it cleared the first tunnel, I assume?
What's DV? Where does this line run along?
Spyten DuyVil interlocking.
It would be great if Amtrak and MTA partnered together electrify this corridor to send Metro North trains directly into penn station.
It's folly to try and make everything a one seat ride. You just have frequent, reliable service and have the passengers make connections.
Hheeyyyyy it's my section! #signalmaintainer
Oh that's actually me at 19:03!
I really thought Cuomo had a fantastic idea when I heard he was promoting a new "Empire Station" next to Penn Station. I thought the idea of a new station for the Empire Service built at the end of the Westside Connection made fantastic sense. It would open up the existing station to more through service and even potentially would allow conversion of the Lake Shore Limited to Superliner equipment terminating just outside of the present station.
I was thinking it could be connected to Penn Station somehow by underground walkway maybe with a moving sidewalk but it would be no worse than walking through an airport.
It sounded great. Then I read that it was simply a rehashing of the 8 platform expansion SOUTH of the existing station. Thought it was a bit deceitful claming credit for an idea that has been out there for a while. Also perhaps a new Empire Station should be built on the north side of Penn Station?
Whatever the case, a new Empire Station built at the end of the Westside Connection keeping Empire Service and the Lake Shore Limited out of Penn Station seems like an interesting idea. There even looks like there is a lot of room for storage and even minor servicing along the route.
3:27 My my THAT IS SOOOOO MESSY FOR AN "EMPIRE" LINE!
This train passes by my building near riverbank state park
I feel like that line has always been there, it was just out of service before Amtrak rebuilt it. It doesn't seem to be modern construction, but I could be wrong. The track seems to be rigged for 100+mph running. Why would trains have to change direction if they are coming from Albany and want to go to DC if they are coming from the north into a station that goes North and South?
This question has been answered above, but the reason trains from Albany would have to change direction to continue to DC is because the Empire Connection swings around and enters Penn Station from the west, which is the same direction that the Northeast Corridor from DC and intermediate points enters Penn Station.
I should note that even though the Northeast Corridor is a relatively northeast-southwest route, Penn Station in NYC is oriented east-west, and both the Northeast Corridor from DC and the Empire Connection enter Penn Station in the same direction.
3:19 is catenary just decorative?
It's for when they have to have a power change before a train can enter Penn Station.
what power change? Amtrak's P42 use Third Rail, not an overhead wire AFAIK
The are not ALP45s
If Dual Mode P32AC's aren't available at Albany, then a diesel P42 can haul to EMPIRE and then get towed into the station by an Amtrak electric locomotive.
Studio Catz it is a p32
Why does part of the line have overhead power?
So electric engines can couple onto diesel powered trains if dual modes are not available.
@@PositionLight ah, interesting. Thanks!
I always thought they would take the high line and combine it with the 7 extension to run down to World Trade center, diffrent....
There's an interesting idea- hadn't heard that one. There was some talk about r the 7 line
talk of running the 7 line under the river to Secaucus- sorry, cat walking on keyboard-
My god, that horn makes the most beautiful sounds...
obkb1 where
DV?
spuyten DuyVil interlocking, telegraph code DV.
what is DV interlocking??
The junction between the old west side freight line and the passenger main line at Spuyten Duyvil.
Ver mais tarde
That's my route
7:44
The train must be pulled by a Diesel engine because there are no overhead wires nor a third rail.
It's a dual mode engine that runs on third rail through the tunnel portion.
nice. 6:55 faces
Creepy!
Jersey Mike's Rail Videos im trying to pinpoint this path on a map. what is DV stand for?
It would be nicer if you knew where this was...subtitles of streets or points of interest every now and then...just sayin'
All the info you need is in the video 🤷♂️
trains
trains in NY go so fucking slow...its maddening...
Line is 60mph, faster than the Westway.
whos going 60?...westway?
@@afterthefox the train is going 60 and the Westway is just the route along the vwest side of Manhattan.
westway?...no one calls it westway...