Should Just Stop Oil protestors really go to prison? | SpectatorTV
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- Five supporters of Just Stop Oil have been found guilty of conspiracy to cause a public nuisance for coordinating direct action protests on the M25 over four days in November 2022.
Roger Hallam received a five year sentence, and four other organisers were handed four year sentences. It’s thought the sentences are the longest ever given in the UK for non-violent protest.
Is the prison time finally an adequate deterrent, or disproportionate? Baroness Claire Fox and Lord Walney join The Spectator’s Lukas Degutis to discuss.
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They aren't being punished for speaking, expressing themselves or protesting, they could have chosen to do all of those things legally.
The issue that JSO do not address, is that if the UK went to net zero tomorrow, it would make absolutely no difference to climate change.
@@nemoerehwon3158 what climate change, it’s roasting in Spain as it always has been
And it’s cold and wet here. As it’s always been
I’m with you except that actually the way things are going our net-zero strategy is probably going to increase rather than decrease pollution whilst at the same time make people much poorer
These are middle class idiots who want to be regarded as 'people of conscience' by their peers.
It would make no difference if EVERYONE stopped releasing CO2. Many scientists say that humans are responsible for just 3% of the increase. The climate is controlled by far greater forces than CO2.
Everyone needs to read the judges full reasoning for the sentences. The media only put out small snipets of the judgement. Read the judgement before you react and go on social media. His sentence took into account all evidence given in court. Virtue and feeling you have a just cause doesn't necessarily let you disrupt everyone else who doesn't agree with you. Protest by peaceful means or stand for parliament and let the electorate decide if your argument holds water.
@@jacquelinetaylor8683 Jacqueline if the Suffragettes didn't engage in noisy and disruptive protests you wouldn't have the vote.
@@paulmason329 Cobblers. The Suffragettes did not want the votes for all women just middle class women. The Eco-terrorist cause is to send us all back to the dark ages there is no comparison
They disrupted even those who agreed with their cause and pissed the hell out of them.
@@paulmason329 Actually, they DELAYED women getting the vote. It was women taking on men's jobs during WW1 that finally proved to the politicians that women deserved the vote. The Suffrage movement (which was peaceful) kept it front and centre. The Suffragettes (who were idiots) stalled things because the politicians looked at their behaviour and deemed it proof that women were too irrational to be given the vote.
@@paulmason329
If my aunt were my uncle she'd have ⚽ ⚽
If you're blocking the highway, your protest might be non-violent but it isn't peaceful. Besides they were convicted for conspiracy to cause a public nuisance, not for protesting.
I am glad the judge handed down stiff sentences. Here in the Netherlands, some "protesters" who defaced a historic painting were let go, because the judge felt a conviction would "have a chilling effect on other protesters". Of course it would and that is entirely the point of a stiff sentence: if you protest in this manner and willfully and repeatedly cross the line, there will be consequences. It won't deter protests, it will deter people from going too far.
Should they go to prison? Yes. Next question.
Case closed 🤣🤣🤣
For 5 years? Yes, and longer.
There’s protests and then there is disruption of needed services.
@@oldmanoob9987 it's OK for Yaxley Lennon and his ignorant rabble to block streets. Jail Yaxley Lennon instead he's used to prison!
Human rights are a shield which is meant to protect you but they used their right to protest as a sword to impose on others rights to freedom of travel.
No such thing as 'freedom of travel'.
@@manco828 yes, of course there is freedom to travel. We have freedom of association, which means we can move about, and meet with others.
Look up the law on false imprisonment.
@@manco828 are you a caged bird ? or in prison ?
@@ivanbluetarski9071 bumbumbum
@@manco828tell the boat people that.🙄
Yes. Blocking roads is illegal.
Many things are illegal. The key thing is to have appropriate punishments. Im not sure 4-5 years is appropriate.
@@XellithUS No it's not, ten years is more realistic.
@@andymushlarky7819 So let me get this right... You are for imprisoning people who want to make the world a better place for 10 years.. for planning to block a road?
Such a snowflake.
@@XellithUS How does stopping vehicles from moving, making them idle and burn more fuel, thus putting more pollution in the atmosphere help make the world a better place?
@@XellithUS Conspiracy to block traffic on a motorway is insanely dangerous and deeply selfish.
But then JSO's are horrendous human beings.
Yes, even the middle classes should go to prison when they break the law.
Peak Spectator that you even ask the question.
The right to protest is not the right to disrupt. Free speech is not free action.
💯
@@michaelgibson7466 Again why is it OK for farmers and far right wing imbeciles block streets. One law for climate protestors, another for anti migrants or anti Muslim protestors.
Yes.Why should the law make exceptions for repeat offenders?
Absolutely yes , this is not acceptable
YES.
In answer to your question -Yes!. Not only that they should be fined the cost of damages caused.
>>"Should Just Stop Oil protesters REALLY go to prison?"
The object of protest is irrelevant, and bringing the M25 to a halt isn't "protest"!
Yes. they must be jailed!
@@Spacecow78993 And make a record available on the DBS database
Yes prison for blocking the public highway. One year in prison plus criminal record
Talking about two tier policing, what has happened to the teacher in Batley who was hounded out of his job and house by a group of ignorant Islamic fundamentalists? The police sided with the religious bullies. So much for upholding law and order.
Should they go to prison ? The judge, who heard all the evidence, thought they should.
@@davidsmith8728 the reason why the protests had the effect they did was because the police can no longer simply arrest someone who is causing a Highway obstruction. Something the police were doing up until a couple of years back.
The reason they could no longer arrest them was because a judge decided that demonstrating was a lawful excuse. Hence the Tories having to pass new laws.
So your judge is fixing a problem caused by another judge.
Rather defeats your argument that they know best.
@@marknicholson2281 Thank you for clarifying this. I just commented that the judge thought they should go to prison - which they did. They do have the right of appeal of course.
To add a little more into the mix, the offence emanates from the Highways Act which states that anyone who, except for the exigencies of traffic, obstructs the passage of Her Majesty's subjects along the highways commits an offence. This could anything - a skip, a pile of rubbish, an abandoned vehicle etc. A case went to the High Court and the Lord Chief Justice, Lord Lane ruled that there had to be evidence of an actual, not merely a potential obstruction to the highway. Since that time, the prosecution have had to bring evidence to support this. I would submit that there was clear evidence of actual obstructions in this case in point. Decisions by a judge can be subsequently reversed by another judge. They are not cast in stone.
@@marknicholson2281 Ofc they can. They arrest people under vague pretexts all the time: "public order" being their go-to.
If they break the law, yes. Or are they now yet another privileged class?
All Labour luvvies ,only the working class can do time 😂
Working class are cheering , Upper class are clutching their pearls
Look, if the upper classes can't signal their moral superiority over regular people, what is the point in their existing?
Tamara and Tarquin are terrorists 😂
@@nolslifegren you must be really pleased about the Labour Party cutting g North Sea Oil then - that’s a great move for the working class isn’t it
@@dirtydawg448 I didnt vote Labour ...
@@dirtydawg448 What planet are you where the working classes are still Labour lovers?
The only creatures enthusiastic about 21st century Labour are middle-upper class liberal Londoners.
Climate crisis is aload of bollocks.
Well obviously it isn't, but as the UK contributes 2 per cent of the problem, nothing we do is going to make the slightest difference.
It's a con,and the UK contributes a fraction of one percent of man made CO2 ,not 2%.
The Hypocrites who support this injustice raise merry hell if migrants or travellers show up screaming "What about our kids?
They are happy to drive and speed polluting the same air their kids have to breathe without losing any sleep!
Well, not really. Just stop oil are though.
@@keithmcwilliams7424 So is cultural replacement theory but it doesn't stop the. Morons who promote it?
What is most distressing about policing in Britain now is that it is so clearly partisan.
And incompetent.
@@jemgeach4066 And now Starmer is parroting Braverman justifying jailing climate protestors And this Hypocrite wants to release prisoners some of whom might re offend.
We sent a man to prison for putting up stickers, where's hit right to protest, especially since what he quoted was true
its ok when they do it , did you not get the memo ?
Tell me. Just WHERE is the " right" to protest written down? There is an "assumption of a " right"!
@@khankrum1 human rights, article 19
@Emily-ou6lq you are referring to freedom of expression- this does not give opw's the right to prevent others going about their normal business and in some cases contributing to poor health outcomes - does it ?
Why are you even asking???
Yes, the Spectator is again flirting (at the very least) with the enemy.
I wondered that 🤬
To stir the pot. It's what the MSM do.
yes yes yes
90% of the public: Yes get stuffed
Probably 99%. The only ones who don't think so are their middle class yuppie parents and this newspaper.
@@goodyeoman4534 TBF yeah it probably is 99% 😂when I think about it only people who don't want them to face any punishment are people connected to JSO or similar groups
Now they are talking about two tier policing,they didnt think it could happen to them 😂
@@Stephen-lx9nm It's barely a consolation though is it?
Fucking over everybody in equal measure.
Absoloutly YES!!!
Yep, without debate.
There have to be limits to the permissible disruptiveness of protests, and breaches of those limits must be punished.
This does not abolish free speech. If the worst comes to the worst, the law-breaker can write letters to the editor from jail.
simple answer YES YES
Yes they should, they don't have any respect for the rest of normal society. In a democracy we need voters to be able to make rational, informed decisions if our culture is going to work looking forward.
Why on earth did it take so long?
Yes they btoke the law
So any law thats broken should be jail time for the person who broke it?
@@Carlin2810 there are sentancing guide lines for the crime comited and the amount of damages ....irregardles of who comited them .
it is irrelevent what the reason to comit said crime was , but there are leniancys for unusual circumstances .
being a pain in the ass and thinking you have the moral high ground are not valid circumstances with which to appeal leniancy .
nor is being a complete asshole and disrupting society in general
@@Carlin2810ask the patients in ambulances trying to get to hospital,they decide wether it’s an emergency or not,how dare they!?
@@Carlin2810Yep
lets hope you kid is never in an ambulance stuck in traffic 😂
I wonder who is financing Just Stop Oil as their methods are way overboard and I dont believe stopping oil is even a sensible approach. Government is to blame as there is no discussion around Net Zero, Green issues etc..... the general population isn't bought in to the necessity of government policies on green agendas. No open discussion results in extremes of behavior which in some cases is seriously misdirected.
Dale vince of ecotricity allegedly. He donated to Labour who gi e him subsidies for wind farms
@@crabby7668 Correct. It gives a dreadful message that you get your way by breaking the law rather than by legal means.
Yes.
We do not need new laws, we need the present laws to be APPLIED! This two tier policing idiocy has got to stop.
We live in a time where people are too weak to make the correct, sometimes harsh, decisions. Like Clare Fox, here.
The weakness masquerades as empathy but it is just a lack of seriousness and a fear of being called a bad person.
If these activists want to go on a hunger strike to make their protest, that is a dramatic gesture, but no, they have to massively inconvenience the public to make their point. It's just saying "Look at me, look at how virtuous I am, you people must suffer for my conscience."
Vanity and narcissism.
brilliant, that has made me so HAPPY
Good many of you voted exactly for this
I don't recall it being a part of the debate but I certyainly did not vote Labour.
I didn't vote for any of this poison.
I doubt many Spectator subscribers voted Green.
Labour been in five minutes ,country in chaos .
YES!
Thank God stop this madness
Sentences are too short.
@@sej8806 Not a very sensible response given the lack of investment in our prison service.
@@leonardeast4971So what. Prison aint meant to be a vacation.
@@adtastic1533 Moron
@@leonardeast4971 : Then you must invest in prisons.
@@buildmotosykletist1987 You wouldn't need to if proper sentences were handed out. That would effect a deterrent and crime would reduce, requiring less prison places long-term.
My post was deleted Good old free speech eh?
and mine,,,,,
seems to be happening alot now free speech has now gone for ever,
UA-cam has been going wild with comment deletion lately
H@@buddhistsympathizer1136 Mine too I guess it was for pointing out that at least one woman d(ied) because these people prevented an ambulance from reaching her and that they should also have been made to pay the cost (every penny) of Policing .
@@jonnysongs Yes it has, even very mundane ones too.
Yes they really,, really should go to JAIL!!
Yes, and so should Ed Miliband!!
Milliweed.
Bacon boy.
@@goodyeoman4534 I'm surprised that a Bolshevik would desire the Semite Millifeed.
I’m not bothering to watch this. The answer is yes. Next topic.
Those who are lacking in respect in terms of their actions should not expect respect in return. JSO is completely lacking in respect. And last time I looked we still have freedom of speech or just about?
Yes....There has to be a deterent to persuade other crackpots not to do the same.
YES. YES. YES. Absolutely.
Middle class people go to jail-how dare they!
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
The right to protest is based on that protest taking place in an officially approved location where the protest DOES NOT interfere with the rights of passers by.
It’s not about the right to protest, it’s about the right to lawfully protest. Blocking the M25 wasn’t lawful.
To me they are just upper and middle class busy bodies ive been hearing for year were doomed its rubbish they said there would be know crops in the year 2000 its scare to control
I protested about something close to my heart a few years ago but I didn’t block roads, made people miss flights, funerals, hospital appointments etc al🤦♂️
the right to protest is not a green card to detain people anywhere and anytime...
Indeed - and it actually alienates people rather than engendering their support. I'm not quite sure why these reactionary middle-class cultists can't see that.
The right to protest does NOT give you the right to snarl up the motorway network on a whim. The judge was completely right to throw the book at Just Stop Oil.
They should have been jailed and 4 and 5 years was the right sentence.
Right Tarquin it's shower time, try not to drop the soap in front of Grossburger...
These public school ponces would probably enjoy that, not see it as a punishment.
I'm pleased Roger Hallam has been sent down for what he orchestrated and I hope he serves every week of his five year sentence.
all day and every day and twice on sundays
Yes, can’t even be bothered to watch the video
Protest was accepted to stand on the pavement but not intrupt the road.
Time passes and the public are totally prevented from going on their peaceful way.
Jail jail jail
YES
Get normal people on and ask them
Define normal? Owen Jones? 😂
@@manco828lol,God no!
@@manco828 Owen Jones is a left wing lunatic.
The metropolitan middle-class now realise they can go to gaol.
They think the working class are the only people who go to gaol. Lets see employers react when they go for a job
Is this woman real there is no climate crises
Yes. They totally disrupted people's lives and possibly even cost actual lives.
I had to double check this was the Spectator?!! Stupid questions.
Yes. Protesting oil is noble. Destruction of property is a crime. Stopping traffic should be a crime. Disrupting the UK isn't freedom of expression it's alienated your ally's and the go home and put the kettle on. Irony.
How did this have anything to do with the right to protest?
The protesters must ask themselves what they are wearing, and what food they eat. Without oil, they’ll have neither.
The Judge's reasoning was sound. Over 700k vehicles were disrupted, including an autistic boy delayed in getting his meds and a person with aggressive cancer who had to wait another two months for an appointment. The protesters climbed on gantries and endangered the lives of those having to get them down. The sentences were warranted for causing untold misery to thousands of people on a major artery around the capital city. Also, they were on bail from previous activity.
If these were working class like me nothing would be said.
This is good news they now know they are not above the law.
Middle class metropolitans discussing themselves
Well.done the judge
The net zero approach leads to slaves in Africa mining colbolt. Wind turbines and solar panels cannot be recycled. These also use vast amounts of energy to produce.
"Should Just Stop Oil protesters REALLY go to prison?" Yes.
yes
too lenient !
Yes!
Nothing wrong with protesting. Wave your placard, go on organised marches, write to your MP.
Cause disruption, damage or injury and you are a criminal.
Freedom of speech isn't a right to break the law.
There is growing concern on other groups intimating wider society
British Justice at it's very best, those bullies don't care about us, why should we care about them!!!
Yes prison. Protest does not include destroying public property or disregard of people’s lives.
Stopping emergency services. Should be 10 years, without early release.
A stupid discussion on the right to free speech. This is not the same as a right to action free of consequences.
I agree, but the real point is that blocking the roads isnt speech?
You have freedom of speach, not freedom the of action!
Actions that breach the rights of others are not speach.
They didn't (just) protest. They were sent tp prison due to criminal activity.
They thought they were above the law. Found out, they're not.
Little cozy middle class ,thuoght only poor people went to jai .Wrong 😂
Of course. The problem was the extent of the conspiracy. Five years is entirely appropriate.
If their actions and protests contain criminal actions, there should be legal consequences. If they are just annoying, they should be ridiculed
Totally agree with differential policing. Police should leave their politics at home.
People have died as a direct result of their actions so yes they should be in prison and these sentences are nowhere near long enough
No, they should be sentenced to six months on an oil rig.
Now they need to go after the people that funded them. I support free speech but they put people’s lives in danger when they block roads. Real danger not the pretend danger of words.
They didnt "push protest to the very limit of what protest is" they willingly and with forethought crossed the legal line into malicious endangerment of others' wellbeing and/or lives.
Are the sentences harsh? Yes, of course they are, as they always are for those convicted of a relatively new offense because it sends a message to those who would come after. Is this how the justice system "should" operate? No. Is it how it always has and the JSO protestors should have taken that into account? Yes.
The law has no time for ignorance. Invoke it's wrath on that count at your peril.
Hallam and his 'followers' became fanatics, but were also victims of their own vain glory. I suspect Hallam may also be the type to start a cult separate to their current beliefs, seeing himself as the next messiah. It not ending well, as has happened in such cases.
Heck yes,!!
That's a stupid question. YES they should go to prison and they should also be made to pay for any damage and financial loss they caused.
I am baffled that you even ask this question. Should lawbreakers be prosecuted and go to prison? Yes. Why do you think the country is on fire? I propose it is the breakdown of policing and law.