Around the time that Mike Jeffries quote came out about who his clothes is for, I remember coming across a quote saying "Mike Jeffries looks like if Gary Busey went bobbing for apples in a tub full of bees". I don't know what vital information I can't retain because that quote is permanently etched in my brain, but I'm not mad about it. It's soooo accurate.
I was in high school when this was popular, and I got yelled at once for saying it was “so gay”. I didn’t know words like “homoerotic”, so I work with what I had! But I agree as a heterosexual black girl, it was extremely hard to relate. Also, I did have two black friends that worked there and we’re always put in the stock room. They never once were allowed to sell on the floor.
"All you ugly white people should also be bothered by this. " I'm dying 🤣 💜. I still remember how that store reeked of bad perfume, nauseating to walk into.
Something tells me you advocate Black Lives Matter, which exclusively promotes the rights of non-whites. Yet you are against a clothing store that exclusively promotes its wares to mainly whites. Do you also have a problem with the brand FUBU that primarily advertises using non-white models?
@@brassattacks2411 I’m black and I understand there should be no issue to businesses catering to specific white culture…it’s just should not be sexualized &hiring process not discrimate workers The black culture have this slim thick/thick appearance they are stressing all blacks with and that you are (othered) if you aren’t thick enough with a huge bum, they have their own issues and sexualization too
Thanks, Nick. I think that's the first time I've heard it said out loud that gay white men have defined what "sexy" is to the general public for decades now.
Great conversation guys... This whole topic goes so deep into the psyche of the gay community and how many of us gay men of color experience it. I was living in Washington DC when the first Black Gay Pride events started at Howard University Banneker field. The gay pride events in DC at the time did not reflect the full gay population in the city.At the time Washington DC was the "black gay center" before Atlanta.
I remember the 90's A&F catalogs and how homogenous they were. My brother would say they were free beefcake magazines. Didn't care for the stores because the clothes + the atmosphere didn't feel like they were for us. Listening to your review, it clicks that it was by design; All American = Manifest Destiny = White is right. It's ironic that Mike Jeffries, up there looking like the world series of botches for bigots, was acting as a gatekeeper for who's attractive enough for that brand; the cheek, the nerve, the gall, the audacity, and the gumption. Anyway, thank you as always for a thorough and thoughtful review!!
Great discussion. I’m an old white lady who was traumatized by the Twiggy image back in the early 60s. I was a preteen getting curves and I remember wearing sweaters in the Texas heat to hide my shameful enlarging breasts. I hate the meanness and exclusivity that’s been in the fashion industry -hopefully it’s changing. I’ve always suspected that the gay men who are so prominent in design were responsible for the no breast, no butt androgynous look of models-yes, I know it’s easier to show clothes without accommodating curves-Back to the meanness-I’ll never forget the hateful comment Tim Gunn made about Gabourey Sidibe at the Oscars the year she was nominated for Precious. He was obviously disgusted by her and said there was just no hope for her, and the celeb commentators with him were obviously shocked and embarrassed, and one sheepishly responded that she looked lovely. Uuuugh! I pray my 9 yr old granddaughter doesn’t get caught up in all this b.s.!!!
And those designers who refuse to make clothes for plus size performers because it will “damage their brand’s image” can go straight to hell!! As they well deserve!
@@annharris8550 Christian Siriano has always been size inclusive, and I just love him for it. I remember SNL's Leslie Jones telling that no designer would dress her for an event because of her size. But, Siriano did and in RED no less. She looked lovely.
Wow not surprised, just like the the owner of timberland said he didn’t make his shoes for black people.. this is how these old fashioned 1% still view us
Love this channel!!! You two have the best discussions. I hated even walking past the A&F stores. Never shopped there, never felt good enough to shop there.
I remember the A&F sketches on MADtv. They were hilarious! The guys would always stop working to wrestle each other. 😂 Great review and commentary! ❤️❤️
I worked at Abercrombie for 5 years at AnF, Hollister, and Ruehl. I also spend time at the home office. This was during the end of my collage(2007), never once thought it was homoerotic until it was pointed out to me by some shoppers questioning why my mens jeans are ultra low rise in the front…
I just remember being oddly relieved that nothing about me or my friends fit in, literally and figuratively, with that store. At 14, it took us all of two minutes to walk in, get the message and walk out. This documentary was just confirmation. Wait, they still exist?
I legit would see these black and white pics of blonde hair, blue eyed, physically cut men and immediately thought of old school nazi propaganda films about Aryan superiority which always disgusted me.
Great review you guys It took me back to that time of A&F stores, Snapple drinks, and everybody wanting an Eddie Bauer Jeep Cherokee (Navy/Tan or Cherry Red) I never was into A&F either with their racist brand I was more into Karl Kani and Cross Colors Had to represent Love you both
Black Lives Matter can promote the value of nonwhite people to the complete exclusion of whites...but a clothing store can't market exclusively to white people. Does that add up to you? Also have you by chance heard of brands Fubu or Lane Bryant, who also market to exclusive nonwhite or nonthin/nonmale demographics? Interesting no one is angry about their exclusiveness. Frankly, it makes me think this film is more about reverse racism towards white people.
hilariously enough every “straight” guy i knew in HS had a&f bags displayed in their room - so maybe they DID know their audience a bit 😂 great review!!!
I feel so bad for the kids who worked at this store and were oversexualized. We would just walk by them shirtless thinking thats normal… glad times have changed
Good point. I went to a store in Frankfurt and it was kinda getting cooler the weather but they these two very young though buff boys at the door..in boxers. They looked uncomfortable, no one was being rude & gawking but just seemed rediculously out of place compared to all the other fashion stores there
Hmmm. Whenever I was in a mall, I tended to avoid this store, just like I avoided Hot Topic. I just found the whole brand goofy. Never paid much attention to it but was aware of the controversy over it. Mad Tv made a pretty accurate series of sketches about the whole thing.
This is a very interesting and insightful review, I'm not too familiar with Abercrombie & fitch but its controversies do remind me of American Apparel who too lost its popularity due to bad business practices and inappropriate marketing.
I always felt weirded out by those stores back then bc I’m not rich and from a prep school. And I remember they had loud club music blaring at those stores in various malls. I travel for work, so I’ve been around a bunch of them here and there. I couldn’t have cared less about it, I just dismissed it. It bored me back then.
First I heard about them was discourse about their racy advertising and a New York Post article praising the fact there was going to be a store in NYC. First time I went to a store was at college in upstate New York. I don't think I ever owned anything from them. They just gave me expensive GAP vibes. I also remember it being so dark and perfume that I couldn't focus on the clothes. Hollister too. I guess by design?
You guys are so right...people can be racist without being very obvious...it can be very subtle...still needs to be called out...they should have worked on the quality and promoted the uniqueness of the brand instead.
Wow. - I always avoided this brand - I was very much a grunge punk in the '90's-2000's no shopping malls for me ... this is the stuff of nightmares. I will check this out. I never understood "cookie cutter" mentality... but I get it. Folks want to belong. Thank you for the review!
as someone who doesnt shop for clothes and knows nothing about clothes i did not grow up knowing about this company. i get my clothes from target so.............and im still wearing clothes from 2004, thats how often i get new clothes, like once a year if at all
you two always do such great reviews. i know you guys get negative comments but please don’t pay them any mind. mean people suck & they’re always gonna be there. i love how you guys are insightful, dive deep into such topics as this one yet are funny and have fun doing these! amazing work. i also love these longer video reviews! i’m one of the viewers who like long reviews. it doesn’t bother me at all!
Just saw it yesterday. Thank you for bringing up the homoerotic vibe going on because that was always the vibe I got from the male models. I knew a lot of straight males who were homophobic but wore and stanned this store brand. I'm not gonna lie, I used to buy some things from them back then, I was in highschool (mostly I shopped at Hollister though) . I always thought Abercrombie & Fitch was a wannabe Calvin Klein. Calvin Klein had did the selling sex provocative thing over a decade earlier
This documentary was worth it.As a teenager it did not fully occur to me how exclusive the store was and definitely gave off popular guy/girl vibes.I also realize that I shouldnt have to shop at a place that would see me as an employee nor a customer and go to where I am accepted as a customer.I also think rebranding for a new generation does not mean the past will be forgotten.
The Brand Reps were changed to Models The Stock people were changed to Impact Team I worked for Abercrombie & Fitch for 9 years. A few years as a brand rep and a few years as an Assistant Manager. I honestly loved working there
I haven’t thought of this store in forever!! I remember almost having a asthma attack from A&F and hollister 😂 all the kids that were these kinds of clothes were assholes
the sad thing is that Abercrombie & Fitch.was originally a highly respected great American speciality store for high quality sporting gear and equipment. It was a large store on Madison Avenue and was world famous. Abercrombie & Fitch.carried everything you needed from the fanciest hand made fishing fly imported from Scotland to the best cold resistant gloves for an antarctic expedition to netting head covers to protect your face during sand storms whilst camping in the Sahara desert. They went out of business in the 1970's (?) and the name was bought by this trendy clothing company that had nothing to do with the original retailer. It is such a pity that a speciality American retailer that was internationally known for its high standards and excellent quality has gone the way of Lord&Taylor, Bonwit Teller's etc... and it's name has been cheapened down to the level of Victoria Secret stores.
Isn't it funny how those two guys wouldn't in their wildest dreams be accepted by the group they market towards! Which In more ways than one is very telling of how these men behaved later on in their lives. They probably just wanted for once to be the opposite of whatever they were excluded for in their younger years and quite honestly even after they've grown, then it became an addiction, and that coupled with money and power became A&F.
Glad to be British. I wouldn’t have been caught dead in Abercrombie and Fitch. Pretty sure that’s what everybody at Alexander McQueen wiped their backsides with.
I was 21ish when it was popular and lived in Memphis. We all wore it because there was literally not many choices for shorts and t-shirts. Didn’t think twice about exclusion, just thought the clothes looked good
@@charityp1850 Of course not. I phrased that improperly. Also, I think I responded to the wrong comment. What I meant was, at times young people are influenced by brands and trends. I wonder, at what age do people come into their own identity?
I remember back in high school I was trying to go for my first job and I got like 3 interviews. First thing they obviously looking at what you look like, then they ask you to say their phrase “hey how’s it going” to see how you sound saying it cause they want you to sound a certain way saying it and then they ask all these dumb ass questions. They asked me to take my shirt off and I would’ve gotten the job but since I had one tattoo at the time on my shoulder she said I couldn’t get the job. I went to 2 other interviews and I was told different every time. Every person that worked there was white. All the non white people worked in the back and obviously all the white mods worked in the front which thinking about it now was crazy
Is it too cynical to think if more YT Americans had those bodies business would still be booming? is it because YT America no longer “fits” in the brand size size, but if they could it would still be going strong? Enjoyed your takes. ❣️
Oh yes. White Americans ( and Americans in general ) have gotten fatter overtime. It’s part of the reason why this company tanked in my opinion. Discrimination against people of color was ok. But fat white people are still white people. And when you blatantly discriminate in a way that affects white people then things will start to change. If they had kept it racial and not talked about the “sizes”, Abercrombie and fitch would probably still be similar to how they used to be.
I was in my mid 30’s when A&F was at its height, so it felt like a look that was too young and a bit casual for me. I’d gone in a few times and ended up with a headache from that cologne. The clothes were really nothing special but the marketing was what made that store.
The one at the grove used to have the handsome men out front, as I remember from being around there in the early 2000s. They had an ad w the young people holding guns, so that sent a weird message, too.
I used be a store manager at Abercrombie and Fitch and I can vouch for everything that was stated in this documentary. They used to tell us to only hire good looking people at our management meetings. As a matter of fact, hiring attractive people was the fast track to moving up in the ranks. I was actually on my way to becoming a district manager. I got tired of that and left.
Very interesting review. I remember when I first came to Cali in the late 80s and going to that store. I do recall thinking why is there only pretty white people working. Don't think I bought anything but wanted to see what they had to offer. I also remember the catalogs that only had the pretty model types, girls and guys. It reminds me of International Male back in the day. At least with them you did see some people of color from different regions.
I still have a couple of pieces from that brand to this day. A baby doll dress and tank top. That was in my high school days. We had to wear school uniforms so the colors fit right in. The navy blue, white and khaki. I was very small and they always carried extra smalls. I had a cousin that was the only black girl working at the store. They wouldnt hire many people of color. But soon after that Hollister was the it preppy style to wear and it was very affordable. The times when we was layering the Hollister collared shirts and the popped collar! 👌👚🤣 I agree it's too late. Now they sell more to kids. Which doesn't makes because of how they was advertised in the pass.
I kept a few button ups from there (and Hollister) that I still wear to work. I bought them in high school because I went on exchange and we didn’t have A&F/Hollister in Australia.
@@realemmcee yeah surprisingly the clothes still hold up after all these years. I know the pieces are over a decade old. Their sizes ran so small. I was a double 00 at the time. I mostly wear the dress as a cover up at the pool.
Please review The Andy Warhol Diaries. The way you feel about Bruce Webber and Mike Jeffries…you’ll make the connection when see this doc. There’s something to be said about Old Gay White Boomers and what they think is sexy.
I remember going into AF and nothing stood out at all....as soon as I seen the price tag of a striped polo, I told myself that I might as well be buying Tommy Hilfiger or Nautica lol Then I noticed that Aeropostal was across from AF and had the same style with cheaper prices (and that store stayed crowded) Hollister is nothing but another version of AF
I never saw A&F as an exclusive brand to a certain color as this doc expresses it, nor did only I see it as a “ white people “ can wear this or should wear this. I saw this is brand as if you can afford it and fit it than buy it. What’s the difference between A&F and LV Gucci D&G and every other high end brand? They all promote exclusivity and a certain “look” Why don’t those brands make clothes for less unfortunate (poorer) people to wear? I also understand that there was controversy behind the brand including flat out racism, I’m not ignoring that. I’m wondering why is there a difference? I saw you guys touched on it briefly.
I think Abercrombie was the ever store I've been in that would make me uneasy bring in. For context I'm a white guy who was a teen in their hayday but that "lifestyle" was never for me and let's be real that's what they were selling you a phony lifestyle of handsome rich white men. Even though rich people wouldn't shop there either lol. Found you twos takes very interesting!
It's possible that A&F could make a comeback with a rebranding, but the only way would be with partnerships. Similar to the brand Members Only, that used to be the laughing stock of the fashion industry, and embarrassing to be seen wearing in public, is now becoming an increasingly popular streetwear brand with their partnership with Nickelodeon and Looney Tunes. The jackets are still hideous as ever. But it's increasing in popularity. But I think A&F needs to completely rebrand. Change the name and start from scratch. Just like they did with all thier social medias. Like you pointed out, nobody cares that they've been around since the 1800's. Use all that equity, and create a new hot brand name, est 2022.
AF and Hollister have burned themselves out I used to work for Hollister who is partnered by AF they were just awful to work for and really did pressure me out of a job, Idk why I even wanted to work for such a place.
I went into an A & F store once ever, at the age of 24 or 25, and I thought the music was entirely too loud, and the aesthetic was really white and really douchey. I just didn't think the store was for me; I mean, at the time I was finishing college and making like $8.50 an hour at a part-time retail job, and the idea of paying $30 or $40 for a t-shirt that was all distressed wasn't for me. The movie was pretty eye-opening, and I'm glad they brought in minority, former employees to share their horror stories of working for A & F. I used to work for one of the leading retail companies, and though the company would claim to support diversity, they had a tendency to hire 22-year-olds for top management positions, while denying promotions for people over 40.
I don't have Netflix, so I won't be able to watch this documentary. I am curious to know if you two, and your followers, think A&F has truly changed. Is it just surface? Are there minorities who are, actually, working the floor, cash register and greeting customers? I haven't been in an A&F store in 25 years, so I don't know the answer to this. Let me know if A&F is better now or just made surface changes.
ABERCROMBIE & FITCH is racist? I never knew that, but then I find their ads annoying, a bunch of boys that are over 18 being photographed isn't sexy at all.
I can't believe that there are still some people defending the brand. I mean even if you are white and "cool" do you really want to defend something that would tell you that you suck if you for example get fat? I am sure that the new CEO has good intentions, but even the current rebranding looks so forced and inauthentic that it's difficult to digest. The documentary was pretty disappointing though, I mean obviously racial discrimination was a major problem with the brand, but there was so much more to dissect. Just the slogan on one of the t-shirt "i had a nightmare that I was a brunette" how low-key offensive and problematic is that to half the population? There was so much more that could be addressed. It's also ironic how the gay-culture shaped so much of the aesthetic and I somehow picture the dude wearing A&F as the most likely to be homophobic. I feel that they spent too much time picturing why A&F was successful instead of going into the detail on the problematic behaviours. This is why this documentary feels to be done with not as much effort as I expected from a contemporary documentary movie. I even heard a local story (when I was living in the UK) of a muslim girl being discriminated in around 2013-2014 by a manager, that I had worked for in another retail chain and hoped it would be featured in this documentary too but clearly they thought one story is enough... Funny thing I was once asked on the street in 2014 to come for an interview to work at A&F as a model and believe it or not I didn't really know what A&F was (I am early gen-z Eastern European guy) and was pretty surprised to see on the website that the way they understand "model" was just a retail worker for minimum wage salary who is obviously white and relatively attractive. I knew how problematic it was so I never went for an interview. Now I am very happy I didn't.
I am also early genz and alot if what happened flew over my head because I was too young to understand and also the documentary did what it needed to tell when it came to both discrimination and their sucess story.They also mostly focused on American controversies since it is/was an American brand.If it was a docu-series,then it would have enough time to go over everything in detail.
That LFO song is cursed. Most of the members of LFO died young. I bet the one last remaining living member cringes at the fact they praised A&F. And if the other band mates were still alive today, I'm sure they would be equally as ashamed and embarrassed.
FUBU was Started by four African-Americans. FOR US, BY US. Sounds exclusionary. A 1999 commercial shows only buff young black men and women in sexy poses. Seems a lot like Fitch ads ua-cam.com/video/VZ92YFpxdRU/v-deo.html
"...who they were describing as very handsome??? Where? Where?..." 🤣🤣🤣 same
Not “ugly ⚪️ people should be offended too” 🤣😂 I’m SCREAMING! 🤣😩😂
😂😂😂 I died 🫣😂😂💀
Around the time that Mike Jeffries quote came out about who his clothes is for, I remember coming across a quote saying "Mike Jeffries looks like if Gary Busey went bobbing for apples in a tub full of bees". I don't know what vital information I can't retain because that quote is permanently etched in my brain, but I'm not mad about it. It's soooo accurate.
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
☠️☠️☠️
I was in high school when this was popular, and I got yelled at once for saying it was “so gay”. I didn’t know words like “homoerotic”, so I work with what I had! But I agree as a heterosexual black girl, it was extremely hard to relate. Also, I did have two black friends that worked there and we’re always put in the stock room. They never once were allowed to sell on the floor.
"All you ugly white people should also be bothered by this. " I'm dying 🤣 💜. I still remember how that store reeked of bad perfume, nauseating to walk into.
I loved. That smell!
Something tells me you advocate Black Lives Matter, which exclusively promotes the rights of non-whites. Yet you are against a clothing store that exclusively promotes its wares to mainly whites. Do you also have a problem with the brand FUBU that primarily advertises using non-white models?
We can't all smell like cocoa butter
@@johnsellas4455 that's too bad because cocoa butter smells wonderful! 🙂
@@brassattacks2411 I’m black and I understand there should be no issue to businesses catering to specific white culture…it’s just should not be sexualized &hiring process not discrimate workers
The black culture have this slim thick/thick appearance they are stressing all blacks with and that you are (othered) if you aren’t thick enough with a huge bum, they have their own issues and sexualization too
Thanks, Nick. I think that's the first time I've heard it said out loud that gay white men have defined what "sexy" is to the general public for decades now.
Omg thank you for the beauty supply comment , it’s a huge problem
Hello from the future. Did you see the press conference?!
Great conversation guys... This whole topic goes so deep into the psyche of the gay community and how many of us gay men of color experience it. I was living in Washington DC when the first Black Gay Pride events started at Howard University Banneker field. The gay pride events in DC at the time did not reflect the full gay population in the city.At the time Washington DC was the "black gay center" before Atlanta.
I remember the 90's A&F catalogs and how homogenous they were. My brother would say they were free beefcake magazines. Didn't care for the stores because the clothes + the atmosphere didn't feel like they were for us. Listening to your review, it clicks that it was by design; All American = Manifest Destiny = White is right.
It's ironic that Mike Jeffries, up there looking like the world series of botches for bigots, was acting as a gatekeeper for who's attractive enough for that brand; the cheek, the nerve, the gall, the audacity, and the gumption. Anyway, thank you as always for a thorough and thoughtful review!!
Homogenous 😭
Great discussion. I’m an old white lady who was traumatized by the Twiggy image back in the early 60s. I was a preteen getting curves and I remember wearing sweaters in the Texas heat to hide my shameful enlarging breasts. I hate the meanness and exclusivity that’s been in the fashion industry -hopefully it’s changing. I’ve always suspected that the gay men who are so prominent in design were responsible for the no breast, no butt androgynous look of models-yes, I know it’s easier to show clothes without accommodating curves-Back to the meanness-I’ll never forget the hateful comment Tim Gunn made about Gabourey Sidibe at the Oscars the year she was nominated for Precious. He was obviously disgusted by her and said there was just no hope for her, and the celeb commentators with him were obviously shocked and embarrassed, and one sheepishly responded that she looked lovely. Uuuugh! I pray my 9 yr old granddaughter doesn’t get caught up in all this b.s.!!!
And those designers who refuse to make clothes for plus size performers because it will “damage their brand’s image” can go straight to hell!! As they well deserve!
@@annharris8550 Yes, fuck them and the horse they rode in on 👍
@@annharris8550 Christian Siriano has always been size inclusive, and I just love him for it. I remember SNL's Leslie Jones telling that no designer would dress her for an event because of her size. But, Siriano did and in RED no less. She looked lovely.
@@zethraelofteldrassil3149 aww bless him
Traumatized? 🤣🤣 Sounds like a you problem
Wow not surprised, just like the the owner of timberland said he didn’t make his shoes for black people.. this is how these old fashioned 1% still view us
So they could care less if we came in there store
which is ironic considering that majority of people who wear/wore timbs on a regular are mostly black people.
Just the 1%?
Stupid comment to make by them. I don't see how Timbalands couldn't be worn by anyone of any race.
This brought up memories for me because I did work there. In the stock room.
Really cool review, thanks for the well put together episode.
I agree 💯💯💯
Love this channel!!! You two have the best discussions. I hated even walking past the A&F stores. Never shopped there, never felt good enough to shop there.
I remember the A&F sketches on MADtv. They were hilarious! The guys would always stop working to wrestle each other. 😂
Great review and commentary!
❤️❤️
I worked at Abercrombie for 5 years at AnF, Hollister, and Ruehl. I also spend time at the home office. This was during the end of my collage(2007), never once thought it was homoerotic until it was pointed out to me by some shoppers questioning why my mens jeans are ultra low rise in the front…
I just remember being oddly relieved that nothing about me or my friends fit in, literally and figuratively, with that store. At 14, it took us all of two minutes to walk in, get the message and walk out. This documentary was just confirmation. Wait, they still exist?
I legit would see these black and white pics of blonde hair, blue eyed, physically cut men and immediately thought of old school nazi propaganda films about Aryan superiority which always disgusted me.
Great review you guys It took me back to that time of A&F stores, Snapple drinks, and everybody wanting an Eddie Bauer Jeep Cherokee (Navy/Tan or Cherry Red) I never was into A&F either with their racist brand I was more into Karl Kani and Cross Colors Had to represent Love you both
Black Lives Matter can promote the value of nonwhite people to the complete exclusion of whites...but a clothing store can't market exclusively to white people. Does that add up to you? Also have you by chance heard of brands Fubu or Lane Bryant, who also market to exclusive nonwhite or nonthin/nonmale demographics? Interesting no one is angry about their exclusiveness. Frankly, it makes me think this film is more about reverse racism towards white people.
hilariously enough every “straight” guy i knew in HS had a&f bags displayed in their room - so maybe they DID know their audience a bit 😂 great review!!!
I feel so bad for the kids who worked at this store and were oversexualized. We would just walk by them shirtless thinking thats normal… glad times have changed
Yes my brother was a model at one of the stores and they would always have him with his shirt off. He was in high school.
Good point. I went to a store in Frankfurt and it was kinda getting cooler the weather but they these two very young though buff boys at the door..in boxers. They looked uncomfortable, no one was being rude & gawking but just seemed rediculously out of place compared to all the other fashion stores there
@@08baby25 your brother probably got laid for that purpose alone
HUH? NOBODY FORCED THEM
@@alejandromolinac 1) most of them were legally children 2) you are the same people who support young people and children pushed into prostitution
I use to see the store in the mall and never went inside 😂 I was like oooh I could feel you're not welcome.
Hmmm. Whenever I was in a mall, I tended to avoid this store, just like I avoided Hot Topic. I just found the whole brand goofy. Never paid much attention to it but was aware of the controversy over it. Mad Tv made a pretty accurate series of sketches about the whole thing.
Mike Jeffries looks like Eric Stoltz in Mask
💀
Thank you, great review!
This is a very interesting and insightful review, I'm not too familiar with Abercrombie & fitch but its controversies do remind me of American Apparel who too lost its popularity due to bad business practices and inappropriate marketing.
I always felt weirded out by those stores back then bc I’m not rich and from a prep school. And I remember they had loud club music blaring at those stores in various malls. I travel for work, so I’ve been around a bunch of them here and there. I couldn’t have cared less about it, I just dismissed it. It bored me back then.
First I heard about them was discourse about their racy advertising and a New York Post article praising the fact there was going to be a store in NYC. First time I went to a store was at college in upstate New York. I don't think I ever owned anything from them. They just gave me expensive GAP vibes. I also remember it being so dark and perfume that I couldn't focus on the clothes. Hollister too. I guess by design?
I used to wonder how the floor workers could stand being bombarded by that loud pounding music 8 hrs a day.
Such a good review I had to view it twice and also feast my eyes on y’all’s cool fashion sense. The shirts are everything!!! A & F are sad af.
You guys are so right...people can be racist without being very obvious...it can be very subtle...still needs to be called out...they should have worked on the quality and promoted the uniqueness of the brand instead.
I'm ugly and offended 😂
This review made me want to go watch this. Great discussion you two had during this review. Great job as always.
I never cared for Abercrombie and Fitch.
OMG when you guys showed the CEO, my first thought was Gary Busey with some really bad plastic surgery!!!
Micro aggressions happen over time and the doubts + pressure -they cause -arguing/tension with yourself…affecting you psychologically!
Wow. - I always avoided this brand - I was very much a grunge punk in the '90's-2000's no shopping malls for me ... this is the stuff of nightmares. I will check this out. I never understood "cookie cutter" mentality... but I get it. Folks want to belong. Thank you for the review!
EXCELLENT ANALYSES! | Thanks, for the facts. You are too kind with decoding the obvious that is hidden only to he who does not wish to see.
Another excellent review Nick and Joseph!
Great review !
Love the review. Love the shirt Nick.
as someone who doesnt shop for clothes and knows nothing about clothes i did not grow up knowing about this company. i get my clothes from target so.............and im still wearing clothes from 2004, thats how often i get new clothes, like once a year if at all
you two always do such great reviews. i know you guys get negative comments but please don’t pay them any mind. mean people suck & they’re always gonna be there. i love how you guys are insightful, dive deep into such topics as this one yet are funny and have fun doing these! amazing work.
i also love these longer video reviews! i’m one of the viewers who like long reviews. it doesn’t bother me at all!
Ok ok ok loving the Barbra Stanwyck shirt. This doc sounds very interesting.
Just saw it yesterday. Thank you for bringing up the homoerotic vibe going on because that was always the vibe I got from the male models. I knew a lot of straight males who were homophobic but wore and stanned this store brand. I'm not gonna lie, I used to buy some things from them back then, I was in highschool (mostly I shopped at Hollister though) .
I always thought Abercrombie & Fitch was a wannabe Calvin Klein. Calvin Klein had did the selling sex provocative thing over a decade earlier
This documentary was worth it.As a teenager it did not fully occur to me how exclusive the store was and definitely gave off popular guy/girl vibes.I also realize that I shouldnt have to shop at a place that would see me as an employee nor a customer and go to where I am accepted as a customer.I also think rebranding for a new generation does not mean the past will be forgotten.
The Brand Reps were changed to Models
The Stock people were changed to Impact Team
I worked for Abercrombie & Fitch for 9 years. A few years as a brand rep and a few years as an Assistant Manager.
I honestly loved working there
Yeah of course you loved it, you’re probably racist
I gave a “LIKE” by the title alone😆👍🏼
I haven’t thought of this store in forever!! I remember almost having a asthma attack from A&F and hollister 😂 all the kids that were these kinds of clothes were assholes
🤣🤣🤣
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Great analysis guys! Can’t wait to hate watch this documentary!
I’m ASIAN and A&F and Gay people already assumed I’m not attractive!.!.
the sad thing is that Abercrombie & Fitch.was originally a highly respected great American speciality store for high quality sporting gear and equipment. It was a large store on Madison Avenue and was world famous. Abercrombie & Fitch.carried everything you needed from the fanciest hand made fishing fly imported from Scotland to the best cold resistant gloves for an antarctic expedition to netting head covers to protect your face during sand storms whilst camping in the Sahara desert. They went out of business in the 1970's (?) and the name was bought by this trendy clothing company that had nothing to do with the original retailer. It is such a pity that a speciality American retailer that was internationally known for its high standards and excellent quality has gone the way of Lord&Taylor, Bonwit Teller's etc... and it's name has been cheapened down to the level of Victoria Secret stores.
Isn't it funny how those two guys wouldn't in their wildest dreams be accepted by the group they market towards! Which In more ways than one is very telling of how these men behaved later on in their lives. They probably just wanted for once to be the opposite of whatever they were excluded for in their younger years and quite honestly even after they've grown, then it became an addiction, and that coupled with money and power became A&F.
dying at your review. so spot on. I could never afford AF in the late 90s when I was in HS
But I did love the bags w the muscular men on them.
Glad to be British. I wouldn’t have been caught dead in Abercrombie and Fitch. Pretty sure that’s what everybody at Alexander McQueen wiped their backsides with.
I was 21ish when it was popular and lived in Memphis. We all wore it because there was literally not many choices for shorts and t-shirts. Didn’t think twice about exclusion, just thought the clothes looked good
But when does it end? At what age do people leave this era?
@@jasminep.9860 there’s no rules to fashion.
@@charityp1850 Of course not. I phrased that improperly. Also, I think I responded to the wrong comment. What I meant was, at times young people are influenced by brands and trends. I wonder, at what age do people come into their own identity?
Some black people think they’re the exception to the mindset. I’m with mom.
I like how do you use the word some and not all
Late 90s baby here I’m glad never hear about this A&F before
I remember back in high school I was trying to go for my first job and I got like 3 interviews. First thing they obviously looking at what you look like, then they ask you to say their phrase “hey how’s it going” to see how you sound saying it cause they want you to sound a certain way saying it and then they ask all these dumb ass questions. They asked me to take my shirt off and I would’ve gotten the job but since I had one tattoo at the time on my shoulder she said I couldn’t get the job. I went to 2 other interviews and I was told different every time. Every person that worked there was white. All the non white people worked in the back and obviously all the white mods worked in the front which thinking about it now was crazy
Nick your last comment about what gay people are now doing is so relevant
I used to work there so I was sitting on ready for this one☕️
And you guys did not disappoint! Great review! Great chemistry, love it all😍
Is it too cynical to think if more YT Americans had those bodies business would still be booming? is it because YT America no longer “fits” in the brand size size, but if they could it would still be going strong? Enjoyed your takes. ❣️
Oh yes. White Americans ( and Americans in general ) have gotten fatter overtime. It’s part of the reason why this company tanked in my opinion. Discrimination against people of color was ok. But fat white people are still white people. And when you blatantly discriminate in a way that affects white people then things will start to change. If they had kept it racial and not talked about the “sizes”, Abercrombie and fitch would probably still be similar to how they used to be.
I was in my mid 30’s when A&F was at its height, so it felt like a look that was too young and a bit casual for me. I’d gone in a few times and ended up with a headache from that cologne. The clothes were really nothing special but the marketing was what made that store.
Lol “this shit is so gay!” I live for this!! 😂😂😂😂😂
The one at the grove used to have the handsome men out front, as I remember from being around there in the early 2000s. They had an ad w the young people holding guns, so that sent a weird message, too.
Great video! 🌞
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I’m just seeing this review now. Omg as a single black mom I used to buy these shirts for my son thinking I was doing something! My poor kid!
They were _dreadful_ clothes for _dreadful_ people.
The best thing they ever made was the cologne. As a straight male, I dislike skinny jeans and I would never wear them.
I used be a store manager at Abercrombie and Fitch and I can vouch for everything that was stated in this documentary. They used to tell us to only hire good looking people at our management meetings. As a matter of fact, hiring attractive people was the fast track to moving up in the ranks. I was actually on my way to becoming a district manager. I got tired of that and left.
Very interesting review. I remember when I first came to Cali in the late 80s and going to that store. I do recall thinking why is there only pretty white people working. Don't think I bought anything but wanted to see what they had to offer. I also remember the catalogs that only had the pretty model types, girls and guys. It reminds me of International Male back in the day. At least with them you did see some people of color from different regions.
Ah, international male! I believe Shemar Moore got his start there.
I still have a couple of pieces from that brand to this day. A baby doll dress and tank top. That was in my high school days. We had to wear school uniforms so the colors fit right in. The navy blue, white and khaki. I was very small and they always carried extra smalls. I had a cousin that was the only black girl working at the store. They wouldnt hire many people of color. But soon after that Hollister was the it preppy style to wear and it was very affordable. The times when we was layering the Hollister collared shirts and the popped collar! 👌👚🤣 I agree it's too late. Now they sell more to kids. Which doesn't makes because of how they was advertised in the pass.
I kept a few button ups from there (and Hollister) that I still wear to work. I bought them in high school because I went on exchange and we didn’t have A&F/Hollister in Australia.
@@realemmcee yeah surprisingly the clothes still hold up after all these years. I know the pieces are over a decade old. Their sizes ran so small. I was a double 00 at the time. I mostly wear the dress as a cover up at the pool.
Please review The Andy Warhol Diaries. The way you feel about Bruce Webber and Mike Jeffries…you’ll make the connection when see this doc. There’s something to be said about Old Gay White Boomers and what they think is sexy.
"that was in 2007!" ....Nick's eyes go -->
I remember going into AF and nothing stood out at all....as soon as I seen the price tag of a striped polo, I told myself that I might as well be buying Tommy Hilfiger or Nautica lol Then I noticed that Aeropostal was across from AF and had the same style with cheaper prices (and that store stayed crowded) Hollister is nothing but another version of AF
owned by the same people, so yeah
Yes Aeropostal had the same style for a adorable price.
@@kumachan9311 I figured they were owned by the same company
I never saw A&F as an exclusive brand to a certain color as this doc expresses it, nor did only I see it as a “ white people “ can wear this or should wear this. I saw this is brand as if you can afford it and fit it than buy it. What’s the difference between A&F and LV Gucci D&G and every other high end brand? They all promote exclusivity and a certain “look” Why don’t those brands make clothes for less unfortunate (poorer) people to wear? I also understand that there was controversy behind the brand including flat out racism, I’m not ignoring that. I’m wondering why is there a difference? I saw you guys touched on it briefly.
I enjoyed this movie and review
I think Abercrombie was the ever store I've been in that would make me uneasy bring in. For context I'm a white guy who was a teen in their hayday but that "lifestyle" was never for me and let's be real that's what they were selling you a phony lifestyle of handsome rich white men. Even though rich people wouldn't shop there either lol. Found you twos takes very interesting!
It's possible that A&F could make a comeback with a rebranding, but the only way would be with partnerships. Similar to the brand Members Only, that used to be the laughing stock of the fashion industry, and embarrassing to be seen wearing in public, is now becoming an increasingly popular streetwear brand with their partnership with Nickelodeon and Looney Tunes. The jackets are still hideous as ever. But it's increasing in popularity. But I think A&F needs to completely rebrand. Change the name and start from scratch. Just like they did with all thier social medias. Like you pointed out, nobody cares that they've been around since the 1800's. Use all that equity, and create a new hot brand name, est 2022.
4:34 yall petty 😂😂
OK, I always assumed this was a store for gay men. I thought maybe I was mistaken, but apparently not.
Abercrombie is why millennials dressed worse than Gen Z
whewww I worked there... what a mess.
All the naked men in the advertisement need clothes on. How is nudity selling these clothes?
AF and Hollister have burned themselves out I used to work for Hollister who is partnered by AF they were just awful to work for and really did pressure me out of a job, Idk why I even wanted to work for such a place.
ya, garey busey, the first guy I think when someone says handsome.
I went into an A & F store once ever, at the age of 24 or 25, and I thought the music was entirely too loud, and the aesthetic was really white and really douchey. I just didn't think the store was for me; I mean, at the time I was finishing college and making like $8.50 an hour at a part-time retail job, and the idea of paying $30 or $40 for a t-shirt that was all distressed wasn't for me. The movie was pretty eye-opening, and I'm glad they brought in minority, former employees to share their horror stories of working for A & F. I used to work for one of the leading retail companies, and though the company would claim to support diversity, they had a tendency to hire 22-year-olds for top management positions, while denying promotions for people over 40.
I don't have Netflix, so I won't be able to watch this documentary. I am curious to know if you two, and your followers, think A&F has truly changed. Is it just surface? Are there minorities who are, actually, working the floor, cash register and greeting customers? I haven't been in an A&F store in 25 years, so I don't know the answer to this. Let me know if A&F is better now or just made surface changes.
Wasn't the designer from Tommy Hilfiger the one who said the brand was not intended for everybody?
ABERCROMBIE & FITCH is racist? I never knew that, but then I find their ads annoying, a bunch of boys that are over 18 being photographed isn't sexy at all.
AF is the retail version of the SS.
I 💯 agree with Nick
Very Arian
Never a fan of A& Fitch but remember going to Dallas and getting my pic taken with all the models in their underwear. Long before all the #metoo crap
Glad that shit stopped, luckily that stuff doesn't happen in an enlightened age nowadays.......
Right?
I can't believe that there are still some people defending the brand. I mean even if you are white and "cool" do you really want to defend something that would tell you that you suck if you for example get fat? I am sure that the new CEO has good intentions, but even the current rebranding looks so forced and inauthentic that it's difficult to digest.
The documentary was pretty disappointing though, I mean obviously racial discrimination was a major problem with the brand, but there was so much more to dissect. Just the slogan on one of the t-shirt "i had a nightmare that I was a brunette" how low-key offensive and problematic is that to half the population? There was so much more that could be addressed. It's also ironic how the gay-culture shaped so much of the aesthetic and I somehow picture the dude wearing A&F as the most likely to be homophobic.
I feel that they spent too much time picturing why A&F was successful instead of going into the detail on the problematic behaviours. This is why this documentary feels to be done with not as much effort as I expected from a contemporary documentary movie.
I even heard a local story (when I was living in the UK) of a muslim girl being discriminated in around 2013-2014 by a manager, that I had worked for in another retail chain and hoped it would be featured in this documentary too but clearly they thought one story is enough...
Funny thing I was once asked on the street in 2014 to come for an interview to work at A&F as a model and believe it or not I didn't really know what A&F was (I am early gen-z Eastern European guy) and was pretty surprised to see on the website that the way they understand "model" was just a retail worker for minimum wage salary who is obviously white and relatively attractive. I knew how problematic it was so I never went for an interview. Now I am very happy I didn't.
I am also early genz and alot if what happened flew over my head because I was too young to understand and also the documentary did what it needed to tell when it came to both discrimination and their sucess story.They also mostly focused on American controversies since it is/was an American brand.If it was a docu-series,then it would have enough time to go over everything in detail.
Sooooo Now the Hot Guys are on Instagram with HUGE following and bank on partnerships....
That LFO song is cursed. Most of the members of LFO died young. I bet the one last remaining living member cringes at the fact they praised A&F. And if the other band mates were still alive today, I'm sure they would be equally as ashamed and embarrassed.
he racist. racism = hate + power.
Up next….How FuBu discriminated against white customers and white employees by catering to the black community
FUBU was Started by four African-Americans. FOR US, BY US. Sounds exclusionary. A 1999 commercial shows only buff young black men and women in sexy poses. Seems a lot like Fitch ads ua-cam.com/video/VZ92YFpxdRU/v-deo.html
Abercrombie & Fitch was never cool. They are really reaching by making a documentary about Abercrombie & Fitch.
Joseph! Stop making excuses for racists and coddling conservatives!