Munich's High End 2024 just finished last week, let's take a look and see what's what! Cheers and enjoy the show! 🍿 It's popcorn time! 00:40 Intro! 01:55 Munich High-End 2024 - Opinion 09:06 Wilson Audio Watt Puppy 10:49 Gryphon Apollo 14:55 Technics x Lamborghini? 16:32 Rockport Lynx 19:37 SonicFlare Studio A update! 🎻 Equipment currently setup in Studio A: EINSTEIN The Preamp einstein-audio.de EINSTEIN The Last Record Player, CD player EINSTEIN The Perfect Match, current sensing dual-mono MC phono amplifier EINSTEIN The Poweramp, hybrid Circlotron dual-mono amplifier EINSTEIN The Octopus Ultimate, 8 socket power cable distributor EMMlabs MTRS, solid state stereo amplifier www.emmlabs.com EMMlabs DS-EQ1, optical cartridge "energizer" x 2 Meitner MA3, DAC + Streamer Kuzma XL Air + Safir, turntable + arm www.kuzma.si Bergmann Galder Signature + Odin, turntable + arm bergmannaudio.com ReVox H1 Cassette tape deck Telefunken M15A reel to reel tape machine x 2 Nagra IV-S reel to reel tape machine www.nagraaudio.com Wilson Audio Sasha V www.wilsonaudio.com Wilson Audio Loke x 2 DeVore Fidelity O/96 devorefidelity.com SonoruS Audio proximity bass controller sonorusaudio.com Tascam DA1000, A/D converter + digital recorder HRS SRX rack, M3X platforms of various sizes avisolation.com QNAP 8 bay 32TB NAS Tidal, Apple Music streaming services Audirvana Studio media playback app audirvana.com eero Pro 6 WiFi network 🎼 Cables used in Studio A: Black Cat Cable blackcatcable.com Graceline L3, speaker + interconnect LessLoss C-MARC Classic power cables www.lessloss.com 🎻 Equipment currently setup in Studio B: EINSTEIN The Amp Ultimate, integrated amplifier einstein-audio.de EINSTEIN The Perfect Match, current sensing dual-mono MC phono amplifier EINSTEIN The Record Player EINSTEIN The Tonearm EINSTEIN The Pickup, MC phono cartridge EINSTEIN The Pure, crossover-less 3-way loudspeaker with ICE powered 10" subwoofer bass section EINSTEIN The Octopus Ultimate, 8 socket power cable distributor Nakamichi Dragon, cassette tape deck SonoruS Audio modified, ReVox PR-99 Mk III reel to reel tape machine sonorusaudio.com 🎼 Cables used in Studio B: Various looms of EINSTEIN cables, RCA, XLR, power 📝 About SonicFlare Danny Kaey is a 25 year veteran published audio and HiFi reviewer in both online and printed publications in the US, Canada and Europe. In the hobby for over 40 years, his tastes have varied through the decades, though now have settled for what music is all about: dynamics, slam, resolving power and tonality. DK believes that like many personally experienced tastes, there are many flavors to HiFi, though in all cases HiFi should aim to replicate music as closely as possible. 🤩 If you like this channel and content please help support me by liking and subscribing here on UA-cam and Instagram. 📌Follow me on Instagram: instagram.com/sonicflare/ 📌Follow me on Discord: discord.gg/q3aWJwwCkT 📌DM me with inquiries for future reviews or interviews. #audio #music #hifi #stereo #records #sonicflare Thanks for watching the video Munich High End 2024!
The shows are for touching and seeing. That is one of the things missing in today's hi-fi world. Buying online is great but I still pine for the local hi-fi shop.
I agree with the opinion that pricing on audio is getting insane, and not only on top high-end stuff. The industry is gonna get in serious trouble once the current middle-aged clientele goes out of the scene. The vinyl industry specifically should seriously reconsider pricing policies, the format is totally not viable for young people who care about the sound.
Nice Danny....too funny now we need Aston Martin turntable by Technics 😅 give me a break, I'm with you keep it simple, like the late Tom Fletcher of Nottingham turntables if one motor can not do its job how can two motors work, this is why I own a Nottingham Hyperspace turntable all the best Danny K....Ed from Brooklyn New York !!!!🍾🥂🎶🎵🍷🎷🎺🎹🥁
Hi Danny. I love the colour on the wall behind you. I’m building a dedicated room for my system and I’m thinking of a blue colour and you’d is amazing! Do you know which one is it?
Danny- great video! Your point about expensive turntables is well taken. A good turntable has to do two things well: control resonances and turn at the proper speed. One does not need a $360,000 turntable to do that. Technical advances notwithstanding, we should ask ourselves how expensive a turntable needs to be to give the listener pleasure. And how many buyers of super expensive tables will be able to hear the subtle differences between those and a moderately priced, well made table? Very few I suspect. Hell, I suspect my dad with his turntable console in the basement in 1958 got more pleasure out of the music he played than many today do, never satisfied, always convinced something is better because it’s more expensive or more complex. Your comments about the Technics and Lamborghini hit home. In my opinion that table looks ridiculous. It would have perhaps been more sensible to install a Technics totally automatic turntable in the trunk of the Lamborghini, one totally resistant to bumps and operated from the dashboard. I actually imagining the merging of a Japanese bidet with a Lamborghini. Now THAT would be some combination: a toilet that could go from 0 to 60 in 3 seconds. And by the way, your watch band looks a bit like the Lamborghini Design!
Completely agree - here's the thing: whenever people post audio files of two turntables wherein they disclose that one of the files is from the one deck they feel is superior, only about 50% of people - probably even less - agree with that statement in a "blind" listening test! So it's all a big giant joke in a way and that's why high-end audio has painted itself into a corner it simply can't back out of: whatever claims are being made to the sound quality are all 100% purely subjective!
I think when we go down this road of talking about price, and criticizing others, we miss the point of audio, the enjoyment. The people who can afford a 162,000 turntable don’t even know that this channel and some others and it’s people exist. We could go down this road with cars, watches, clothing, cameras, houses, etc. Do you need a 15 million dollar house or even a 3 million dollar one, that’s for you to decide, how about a 40,000 phase one camera, a 45,000 Harley, a Rolex it goes on and on. Worry less about others and enjoy what you have yourself. We have to stop thinking about what things cost and criticizing others for what they spend. Some people are let’s face it not broke, not middle class, but they worked hard, married well or inherited well and are rich, 150,000 to them is like 150.00 to you and it’s really not their fault that they can spend what some of us can’t. I love audio and I spend what I spend and worry not what others have or don’t have. I think people attend these audio shows for the same reason that people go to Auto shows, Golf shows, Gun shows and CES, it’s the enjoyment of it all, with CES mostly being for insiders covering the events talking about new tech. As far as sound quality at these shows, I agree some of it sucks, but some manufacturers go through a great deal of trouble and they make their rooms sound good. The reason that some people like Jay and his coverage as well as the Audiojunkie is, most people will never see Munich, let alone be able to afford to go, or even see equipment at that level. When we talk about judging sound quality, to be honest, you really can’t judge it from a reviewer, a magazine, UA-cam or even your friends or dealer’s showrooms. The best way is in your home, so with that philosophy, you could say what does any of it matter, why listen to other people talk about it at all……because it’s exciting, it’s a hobby and it’s flat out enjoyment like any other hobby. The reason people like sound demos from their local dealers as well as UA-cam is to get a sound signature to relate to, not an accurate sound. In case of UA-cam and audio shows, this leads to phone calls, which leads to visit to dealer ships, which could lead to potential sales. Let’s stop talking about what things cost or don’t cost, you know if you can or can’t afford something, leave the jealousy in the waist basket and just enjoy being an Audiophile.
So me criticizing the lack of a product’s inherent value and thusly providing at least some counter balance to whatever marketing claims are being peddled is synonymous with me being jealous of someone who will spend his - presumably - hard earned money on said product that in no way could possibly ever justify the price point? Hilarious. #peaklunacy With regards to HiFi shows: it’s easy for you to say what great fun it is and all to attend a show that someone else paid for your enjoyment and entertainment. The truth is that for most audio companies these shows are in fact a nightmare to organize, support and deliver on. You are simply looking at it from your perspective as the “fun loving” consumer with zero skin in the game, save for the cost of buying a ticket to attend the show for a day or three. My point was that in today’s environment these shows are simply not necessary and the money spent on attending these shows could be leveraged in more meaningful ways. Tootles!
@@SonicFlare Me and my local dealer are fairly close and you are correct, that the value that they get from all the time preparation and money is small by comparison, but it is his choice as to how he spends his time and money to determine its perceived value. You have the right to criticize a product’s perceived value, just like your audience has a right to an alternative prospective, that’s neither Hilarious or Peak Lunacy, that’s discourse. As far as determining a product’s lack of inherent value, that’s not determined by you or me, it’s the market. Taking audio out of it for a second, this logic can and does apply to every product in existence, your wallet determines your starting price point, and ending price point, no one else. Just because someone tells you that something cost 162,000 doesn’t mean you have to spend it and that doesn’t mean anyone can tell you that you cannot that’s the hilarious part and the peak lunacy. When dealers stop seeing the value, they will stop attending the shows and some dealers have dropped out. OCD Mikey is one of those dealers that doesn’t attend these shows all the time and my dealer doesn’t go to Munich, but he does go to Axpona, due to his location but he doesn’t see the perceived value of Munich.
#peaklunacy referred to your assertion that my critique of a product constitutes some form of jealousy on my part for someone buying said product. You are free to post whatever you wish to post here - I make no editorial decision to "ban" you unless the conversation descends to borderline name calling nonsense. Post script: you seem to echo precisely my points vis-a-vis the industry at large with regards to shows and their perceived value Post script, part deux: if you want to spend $165k on a product that in no way justifies said price, by all means, do it, it happens all the time.
@@SonicFlare First off, I have no problem with you or your channel, I actually like it. When I say that I don't care what others do with their money, I literally don't, I never bring it up or even ask people. This topic rears its ugly head especially when cables are brought up. I never implied that you were attempting to make an editorial decision to ban me, I gave you my perspective, aka, the discourse. If you did or didn't that would be your choice, but I appreciate the clarification. I like the spice that you bring to an otherwise status quote. Let me make a clarification, I didn't say you personally are jealous, you have a nice system and so do I, but there are others who don't speak from that perspective, they speak with jealous in their hearts and will follow it up with, you could give money to this and that cause, or a fool and their money are soon parted. I'm not a person that just agrees with a topic for the simple reason of doing so, aka my responses, but it's all in fun on my part. A non-audiophile would and could call any of us fools. My perspective even postscript hasn't changed, I just stated what my one of my local dealers finds as a perceived value and he does get a bump in sales, he has never shared how much, and it isn't my business to ask him this. I have another dealer who doesn't participate at all in shows because he sees no value. I think of it as a personal choice and when that dealer no longer finds value they decide to stay or go in terms of presenting. I also said earlier that there are many things that are priced too high, and I gave examples, but I also said that it is for the consumer to decide with their wallets. A Bugatti, is too expensive, costing way more than $165,000, but for the person that has the money it is up to them to decide its perceived value. My issue is we often in this society use money as a way of judging people, not by actually knowing them or looking at the hard work that it took to get where they are, but what they spend their money on.
Thanks for the added clarity and "color"... Appreciate you following the channel - as I do everyone else of course. I have always wanted to "speak my mind", free from editorial handcuffs I have had for all of my 20+ years of writing for other magazines and editors. There are lines you can't cross, otherwise advertisers will start disappearing quickly. Therein lies the Faustian bargain of high-end audio: magazines and increasingly UA-cam channels are run on a business model, pure and simple. Advertisers support these magazines and channels, again, pure and simple. Particularly on the UA-cam side the effort it takes to create good looking content is orders of magnitudes higher and more involving than simply copying and pasting a word document into a web design template. All of the videos you see on my channel are shot, edited and posted by me - to date, I receive zero dollars in support from any of the manufacturers / or record companies that I review, discuss or otherwise ramble about. In the rare case that a record company sends me a record for review, I make it clear that this was the case. Increasingly, however, I am seeing a lot of pay-to-play games on UA-cam that are simply not being disclosed - "show" videos come to mind. I know how the game works. What am I getting at here - we are increasingly becoming inundated with influencers and posers whose only, primary job is to promote products, rooms, people, shows, etc. without properly disclosing that this is in fact the case. Masquerading as "audio labs" = Jay comes to mind, but there's many, many others, these channels are nothing more than marketing outreaches of whoever is paying the bills for said outreach. This of course is nothing new - it's been around since the dawn of magazines, alas, it's becoming more and more evident to me that we are seeing this on an ever increasing scale. Nothing is being critically and objectively discussed - everything is simply a promotion. The unsuspecting consumer falls for it, hook, line and s(t)inker. I - as you correctly observed - at least I glean it from your comment "keeping it spicy" - have wanted to do the opposite. Provide a genuinely fair and balanced view of products and such, and if in fact someone were to pay for a promotional spot - I have no problem with that of course - that would be disclosed as such up front and clearly advertised as such. As an example, I am going to a press junket in a few weeks that I am looking forward to since I am a bit skeptical of said part of the industry as a whole; the trip is paid for by the company and whatever video will be derived from that, will be disclosed as such, plain and simple. When's the last time that you saw a promotional "HiFi" video that was disclosed as such? Maybe there are a few, but I certainly haven't seen them, especially from the usual suspects in this game. Thusly, I go back to the original initiation of our discussion - the Gryphon Apollo turntable, designed by Brinkmann. I have known Helmut since the early 2000s. I have owned multiple turntables of his and I really dig them and have recommended them to friends many, many times over. Based on my knowledge, I will again call out my assumption that the Apollo in no way resembles a value proposition at $165k. I simply don't see it, moreover, as I also mentioned, there are several critical issues when you simply start adding motors, belts and other "bells" to make your product stand out. Mostly, these are all noise multipliers, precisely what you actually want to get rid of! Now please tell me in all the videos posted on UA-cam since the Munich launch of Apollo... how many "reviewers" have asked even a single critical question of Run @ Gryphon about this? None. Zero. Anyway, I could go on an on with examples... high-end audio is a minefield of nonsense with occasional glimmers of actual advances in playback quality. Thanks for tuning in, appreciate the comments and discussion, Sid! 🤣
High End. Is it really? A £13k Rega Naia is one of the best turntables. It's not ten tones worse than a 135k deck. An audiophile and their money are easily parted.
I just don't understand why people like you whine and complain about high end audio shows!!! You should be grateful for those who put on the shows and the expense that they're able to absorb for your entertainment and also to promote the hobby. If you don't like the shows, stay home!!! Yes, high end audio can be extremely expensive (and always has been). But why should that bother you? There has always been multiples of extremely excellent far more affordable options out there for every budget. What is it? Are you upset that you may not be able to afford a 100K turn table, LOL!!!? Some people just have to find something to complain about or they're just not happy. When I get the urge, I'll bear the expense flight/hotel to attend one of the shows out here on the west coast and I thoroughly enjoy each show that I attend. What the heck is the problem here??? Stop whining and just enjoy the music!!!!
“I just don’t understand why people like you whine” because others “complain about high end audio shows!!!” Doesn’t everyone have a right to their opinion? Many of the complaints happened to be justified. 1. It is extremely expensive to rent a space there. Many manufacturers may have wanted to display their wares but are unable to afford it. 2. The listening conditions at most shows are far from ideal for many reasons including crowded rooms, poor acoustics, ambient noise. As a result, it’s often a disappointing experience, especially when manufacturers are trying to show how good their hyper- expensive product really is. 3. Few can deny that the prices of many of these products has reached outrageous levels for 99% of the audiophile population. And for what? Turntables are a great example. As I previously noted, is a $360,000 table that much better than a $10,000 table or even a $3,000 table. To some golden ears, maybe. But many are just fooling themselves into thinking, the higher the price, the more complex, the better the sound. I’m not against selling these tables. Let all that can afford it feast to their heart’s content. But what’s wrong with complaining about the cost-benefit ratio and the value you get for your money? “Why should that bother you?” You’re just as annoying complaining about the complainers. He’s just offering HIS opinion; isn’t that allowed? “What the heck is the problem here?” “Some people just have to find something to complain about.” If it bothers you so much, as it seems to, “stop whining and” TURN OFF THE VIDEO!
#bingo! Well said. I'm not against anyone selling anything for whatever they think the market will bare. What I am against, however, is selling marketing bullshit to the unassuming and unknowing customer who doesn't know any better. If I spend half a million on a Rolls-Royce, I know that I will get the best made and most exclusive car on the market. If I spend half a million on a TechDAS turntable, I get a $50 Pabst motor with "fancy" machined looks and not much more "technology" despite whatever TechDAS claims otherwise. In any other industry or market, that would be considered fraud, plain and simple. In high-end audio, it's pitched as driving a Rolls-Royce. #cough #cough #wank #wank. Needless to say, the market = manufactures = need precisely people like you to drive this illusion forward so it's only natural that you are here "complaining" about me calling out nonsense where it's due. By all means, buy whatever you want, but equally, don't be surprised when someone calls out the BS behind it. High-End audio wants it both ways: objective measurements are fantastic when they support whatever it is they are claiming, yet, equally, measurements are the devil's calling when they call out the nonsense they are peddling. Then it quickly resorts to "well, we can't measure it really! The tools with enough precision simply do not exist to measure the marketing claims we are selling! Anyway...
Munich's High End 2024 just finished last week, let's take a look and see what's what!
Cheers and enjoy the show!
🍿 It's popcorn time!
00:40 Intro!
01:55 Munich High-End 2024 - Opinion
09:06 Wilson Audio Watt Puppy
10:49 Gryphon Apollo
14:55 Technics x Lamborghini?
16:32 Rockport Lynx
19:37 SonicFlare Studio A update!
🎻 Equipment currently setup in Studio A:
EINSTEIN The Preamp einstein-audio.de
EINSTEIN The Last Record Player, CD player
EINSTEIN The Perfect Match, current sensing dual-mono MC phono amplifier
EINSTEIN The Poweramp, hybrid Circlotron dual-mono amplifier
EINSTEIN The Octopus Ultimate, 8 socket power cable distributor
EMMlabs MTRS, solid state stereo amplifier www.emmlabs.com
EMMlabs DS-EQ1, optical cartridge "energizer" x 2
Meitner MA3, DAC + Streamer
Kuzma XL Air + Safir, turntable + arm www.kuzma.si
Bergmann Galder Signature + Odin, turntable + arm bergmannaudio.com
ReVox H1 Cassette tape deck
Telefunken M15A reel to reel tape machine x 2
Nagra IV-S reel to reel tape machine www.nagraaudio.com
Wilson Audio Sasha V www.wilsonaudio.com
Wilson Audio Loke x 2
DeVore Fidelity O/96 devorefidelity.com
SonoruS Audio proximity bass controller sonorusaudio.com
Tascam DA1000, A/D converter + digital recorder
HRS SRX rack, M3X platforms of various sizes avisolation.com
QNAP 8 bay 32TB NAS
Tidal, Apple Music streaming services
Audirvana Studio media playback app audirvana.com
eero Pro 6 WiFi network
🎼 Cables used in Studio A:
Black Cat Cable blackcatcable.com
Graceline L3, speaker + interconnect
LessLoss C-MARC Classic power cables www.lessloss.com
🎻 Equipment currently setup in Studio B:
EINSTEIN The Amp Ultimate, integrated amplifier einstein-audio.de
EINSTEIN The Perfect Match, current sensing dual-mono MC phono amplifier
EINSTEIN The Record Player
EINSTEIN The Tonearm
EINSTEIN The Pickup, MC phono cartridge
EINSTEIN The Pure, crossover-less 3-way loudspeaker with ICE powered 10" subwoofer bass section
EINSTEIN The Octopus Ultimate, 8 socket power cable distributor
Nakamichi Dragon, cassette tape deck
SonoruS Audio modified, ReVox PR-99 Mk III reel to reel tape machine sonorusaudio.com
🎼 Cables used in Studio B:
Various looms of EINSTEIN cables, RCA, XLR, power
📝 About SonicFlare
Danny Kaey is a 25 year veteran published audio and HiFi reviewer in both online and printed publications in the US, Canada and Europe. In the hobby for over 40 years, his tastes have varied through the decades, though now have settled for what music is all about: dynamics, slam, resolving power and tonality. DK believes that like many personally experienced tastes, there are many flavors to HiFi, though in all cases HiFi should aim to replicate music as closely as possible.
🤩 If you like this channel and content please help support me by liking and subscribing here on UA-cam and Instagram.
📌Follow me on Instagram: instagram.com/sonicflare/
📌Follow me on Discord: discord.gg/q3aWJwwCkT
📌DM me with inquiries for future reviews or interviews.
#audio #music #hifi #stereo #records #sonicflare
Thanks for watching the video Munich High End 2024!
The shows are for touching and seeing. That is one of the things missing in today's hi-fi world. Buying online is great but I still pine for the local hi-fi shop.
That is a nice side effect - alas, the thought of being cooped up in a room with 50 others doesn’t appeal to me… 🤣
I agree with the opinion that pricing on audio is getting insane, and not only on top high-end stuff. The industry is gonna get in serious trouble once the current middle-aged clientele goes out of the scene. The vinyl industry specifically should seriously reconsider pricing policies, the format is totally not viable for young people who care about the sound.
Agree with that as well - alas, many people keep buying, so they keep making!
Pretty excited for your new studio Dano. Some really beautiful equipment at that show. FIFO 🎉. Greg
Cheerios!!!
Hey Danny, Is that Rockport factory tour still on the cards? And also what's the make/brand of that lamp over your left shoulder please? Cheers, SdP
Yep, gotta organize it … that’s a Koncept LED lamp…
@@SonicFlare Good man. Thanks for getting back to me. 🙂
Nice Danny....too funny now we need Aston Martin turntable by Technics 😅 give me a break, I'm with you keep it simple, like the late Tom Fletcher of Nottingham turntables if one motor can not do its job how can two motors work, this is why I own a Nottingham Hyperspace turntable all the best Danny K....Ed from Brooklyn New York !!!!🍾🥂🎶🎵🍷🎷🎺🎹🥁
Good Lord, I hope AM won't stoop to that level!!! Please don't!!! Nottingham is good stuff!!! Thanks for tuning in!
Hi Danny. I love the colour on the wall behind you. I’m building a dedicated room for my system and I’m thinking of a blue colour and you’d is amazing! Do you know which one is it?
YES!!! A colorful pen-pal finally! 🤣 The color is called "Sojourn Blue" from Dynasty Marquee... Cheers!
@@SonicFlare 🫡 Thank you! And I’m a fellow owner of the orangutans O/96 ! Have a nice day!
PS while we are discussing decorating…nice lamp
@@michaelgarnett1372 I love lamp.
Danny- great video! Your point about expensive turntables is well taken. A good turntable has to do two things well: control resonances and turn at the proper speed. One does not need a $360,000 turntable to do that. Technical advances notwithstanding, we should ask ourselves how expensive a turntable needs to be to give the listener pleasure. And how many buyers of super expensive tables will be able to hear the subtle differences between those and a moderately priced, well made table? Very few I suspect. Hell, I suspect my dad with his turntable console in the basement in 1958 got more pleasure out of the music he played than many today do, never satisfied, always convinced something is better because it’s more expensive or more complex.
Your comments about the Technics and Lamborghini hit home. In my opinion that table looks ridiculous. It would have perhaps been more sensible to install a Technics totally automatic turntable in the trunk of the Lamborghini, one totally resistant to bumps and operated from the dashboard. I actually imagining the merging of a Japanese bidet with a Lamborghini. Now THAT would be some combination: a toilet that could go from 0 to 60 in 3 seconds. And by the way, your watch band looks a bit like the Lamborghini Design!
Completely agree - here's the thing: whenever people post audio files of two turntables wherein they disclose that one of the files is from the one deck they feel is superior, only about 50% of people - probably even less - agree with that statement in a "blind" listening test! So it's all a big giant joke in a way and that's why high-end audio has painted itself into a corner it simply can't back out of: whatever claims are being made to the sound quality are all 100% purely subjective!
Lol doomsday machine - pretty sure thats Twitter
Dear Sir, must your intros be that much louder than the rest of content?
Fair point, I need to remember to adjust the levels! 🙏🏼👀
I think when we go down this road of talking about price, and criticizing others, we miss the point of audio, the enjoyment. The people who can afford a 162,000 turntable don’t even know that this channel and some others and it’s people exist. We could go down this road with cars, watches, clothing, cameras, houses, etc.
Do you need a 15 million dollar house or even a 3 million dollar one, that’s for you to decide, how about a 40,000 phase one camera, a 45,000 Harley, a Rolex it goes on and on. Worry less about others and enjoy what you have yourself. We have to stop thinking about what things cost and criticizing others for what they spend.
Some people are let’s face it not broke, not middle class, but they worked hard, married well or inherited well and are rich, 150,000 to them is like 150.00 to you and it’s really not their fault that they can spend what some of us can’t.
I love audio and I spend what I spend and worry not what others have or don’t have. I think people attend these audio shows for the same reason that people go to Auto shows, Golf shows, Gun shows and CES, it’s the enjoyment of it all, with CES mostly being for insiders covering the events talking about new tech.
As far as sound quality at these shows, I agree some of it sucks, but some manufacturers go through a great deal of trouble and they make their rooms sound good. The reason that some people like Jay and his coverage as well as the Audiojunkie is, most people will never see Munich, let alone be able to afford to go, or even see equipment at that level. When we talk about judging sound quality, to be honest, you really can’t judge it from a reviewer, a magazine, UA-cam or even your friends or dealer’s showrooms.
The best way is in your home, so with that philosophy, you could say what does any of it matter, why listen to other people talk about it at all……because it’s exciting, it’s a hobby and it’s flat out enjoyment like any other hobby.
The reason people like sound demos from their local dealers as well as UA-cam is to get a sound signature to relate to, not an accurate sound. In case of UA-cam and audio shows, this leads to phone calls, which leads to visit to dealer ships, which could lead to potential sales. Let’s stop talking about what things cost or don’t cost, you know if you can or can’t afford something, leave the jealousy in the waist basket and just enjoy being an Audiophile.
So me criticizing the lack of a product’s inherent value and thusly providing at least some counter balance to whatever marketing claims are being peddled is synonymous with me being jealous of someone who will spend his - presumably - hard earned money on said product that in no way could possibly ever justify the price point? Hilarious. #peaklunacy
With regards to HiFi shows: it’s easy for you to say what great fun it is and all to attend a show that someone else paid for your enjoyment and entertainment. The truth is that for most audio companies these shows are in fact a nightmare to organize, support and deliver on. You are simply looking at it from your perspective as the “fun loving” consumer with zero skin in the game, save for the cost of buying a ticket to attend the show for a day or three. My point was that in today’s environment these shows are simply not necessary and the money spent on attending these shows could be leveraged in more meaningful ways. Tootles!
@@SonicFlare Me and my local dealer are fairly close and you are correct, that the value that they get from all the time preparation and money is small by comparison, but it is his choice as to how he spends his time and money to determine its perceived value. You have the right to criticize a product’s perceived value, just like your audience has a right to an alternative prospective, that’s neither Hilarious or Peak Lunacy, that’s discourse.
As far as determining a product’s lack of inherent value, that’s not determined by you or me, it’s the market. Taking audio out of it for a second, this logic can and does apply to every product in existence, your wallet determines your starting price point, and ending price point, no one else.
Just because someone tells you that something cost 162,000 doesn’t mean you have to spend it and that doesn’t mean anyone can tell you that you cannot that’s the hilarious part and the peak lunacy. When dealers stop seeing the value, they will stop attending the shows and some dealers have dropped out. OCD Mikey is one of those dealers that doesn’t attend these shows all the time and my dealer doesn’t go to Munich, but he does go to Axpona, due to his location but he doesn’t see the perceived value of Munich.
#peaklunacy referred to your assertion that my critique of a product constitutes some form of jealousy on my part for someone buying said product.
You are free to post whatever you wish to post here - I make no editorial decision to "ban" you unless the conversation descends to borderline name calling nonsense.
Post script: you seem to echo precisely my points vis-a-vis the industry at large with regards to shows and their perceived value
Post script, part deux: if you want to spend $165k on a product that in no way justifies said price, by all means, do it, it happens all the time.
@@SonicFlare First off, I have no problem with you or your channel, I actually like it. When I say that I don't care what others do with their money, I literally don't, I never bring it up or even ask people. This topic rears its ugly head especially when cables are brought up.
I never implied that you were attempting to make an editorial decision to ban me, I gave you my perspective, aka, the discourse. If you did or didn't that would be your choice, but I appreciate the clarification.
I like the spice that you bring to an otherwise status quote. Let me make a clarification, I didn't say you personally are jealous, you have a nice system and so do I, but there are others who don't speak from that perspective, they speak with jealous in their hearts and will follow it up with, you could give money to this and that cause, or a fool and their money are soon parted. I'm not a person that just agrees with a topic for the simple reason of doing so, aka my responses, but it's all in fun on my part.
A non-audiophile would and could call any of us fools. My perspective even postscript hasn't changed, I just stated what my one of my local dealers finds as a perceived value and he does get a bump in sales, he has never shared how much, and it isn't my business to ask him this.
I have another dealer who doesn't participate at all in shows because he sees no value. I think of it as a personal choice and when that dealer no longer finds value they decide to stay or go in terms of presenting.
I also said earlier that there are many things that are priced too high, and I gave examples, but I also said that it is for the consumer to decide with their wallets.
A Bugatti, is too expensive, costing way more than $165,000, but for the person that has the money it is up to them to decide its perceived value.
My issue is we often in this society use money as a way of judging people, not by actually knowing them or looking at the hard work that it took to get where they are, but what they spend their money on.
Thanks for the added clarity and "color"... Appreciate you following the channel - as I do everyone else of course. I have always wanted to "speak my mind", free from editorial handcuffs I have had for all of my 20+ years of writing for other magazines and editors. There are lines you can't cross, otherwise advertisers will start disappearing quickly. Therein lies the Faustian bargain of high-end audio: magazines and increasingly UA-cam channels are run on a business model, pure and simple. Advertisers support these magazines and channels, again, pure and simple. Particularly on the UA-cam side the effort it takes to create good looking content is orders of magnitudes higher and more involving than simply copying and pasting a word document into a web design template. All of the videos you see on my channel are shot, edited and posted by me - to date, I receive zero dollars in support from any of the manufacturers / or record companies that I review, discuss or otherwise ramble about. In the rare case that a record company sends me a record for review, I make it clear that this was the case.
Increasingly, however, I am seeing a lot of pay-to-play games on UA-cam that are simply not being disclosed - "show" videos come to mind. I know how the game works.
What am I getting at here - we are increasingly becoming inundated with influencers and posers whose only, primary job is to promote products, rooms, people, shows, etc. without properly disclosing that this is in fact the case. Masquerading as "audio labs" = Jay comes to mind, but there's many, many others, these channels are nothing more than marketing outreaches of whoever is paying the bills for said outreach. This of course is nothing new - it's been around since the dawn of magazines, alas, it's becoming more and more evident to me that we are seeing this on an ever increasing scale.
Nothing is being critically and objectively discussed - everything is simply a promotion. The unsuspecting consumer falls for it, hook, line and s(t)inker.
I - as you correctly observed - at least I glean it from your comment "keeping it spicy" - have wanted to do the opposite. Provide a genuinely fair and balanced view of products and such, and if in fact someone were to pay for a promotional spot - I have no problem with that of course - that would be disclosed as such up front and clearly advertised as such.
As an example, I am going to a press junket in a few weeks that I am looking forward to since I am a bit skeptical of said part of the industry as a whole; the trip is paid for by the company and whatever video will be derived from that, will be disclosed as such, plain and simple.
When's the last time that you saw a promotional "HiFi" video that was disclosed as such? Maybe there are a few, but I certainly haven't seen them, especially from the usual suspects in this game.
Thusly, I go back to the original initiation of our discussion - the Gryphon Apollo turntable, designed by Brinkmann. I have known Helmut since the early 2000s. I have owned multiple turntables of his and I really dig them and have recommended them to friends many, many times over. Based on my knowledge, I will again call out my assumption that the Apollo in no way resembles a value proposition at $165k. I simply don't see it, moreover, as I also mentioned, there are several critical issues when you simply start adding motors, belts and other "bells" to make your product stand out. Mostly, these are all noise multipliers, precisely what you actually want to get rid of! Now please tell me in all the videos posted on UA-cam since the Munich launch of Apollo... how many "reviewers" have asked even a single critical question of Run @ Gryphon about this? None. Zero.
Anyway, I could go on an on with examples... high-end audio is a minefield of nonsense with occasional glimmers of actual advances in playback quality.
Thanks for tuning in, appreciate the comments and discussion, Sid! 🤣
45rpm single sided in your Lamborghini?
LOL!!!
High End. Is it really? A £13k Rega Naia is one of the best turntables. It's not ten tones worse than a 135k deck. An audiophile and their money are easily parted.
100% and very unfortunately, I completely agree - entirely too much nonsense in this sector of HiFi! Thanks for tuning in!
I just don't understand why people like you whine and complain about high end audio shows!!! You should be grateful for those who put on the shows and the expense that they're able to absorb for your entertainment and also to promote the hobby. If you don't like the shows, stay home!!! Yes, high end audio can be extremely expensive (and always has been). But why should that bother you? There has always been multiples of extremely excellent far more affordable options out there for every budget. What is it? Are you upset that you may not be able to afford a 100K turn table, LOL!!!? Some people just have to find something to complain about or they're just not happy. When I get the urge, I'll bear the expense flight/hotel to attend one of the shows out here on the west coast and I thoroughly enjoy each show that I attend. What the heck is the problem here??? Stop whining and just enjoy the music!!!!
Does this lack of understanding on your part include your complaining too or just the complaining - however legitimate - of others?
“I just don’t understand why people like you whine” because others “complain about high end audio shows!!!” Doesn’t everyone have a right to their opinion? Many of the complaints happened to be justified. 1. It is extremely expensive to rent a space there. Many manufacturers may have wanted to display their wares but are unable to afford it. 2. The listening conditions at most shows are far from ideal for many reasons including crowded rooms, poor acoustics, ambient noise. As a result, it’s often a disappointing experience, especially when manufacturers are trying to show how good their hyper- expensive product really is. 3. Few can deny that the prices of many of these products has reached outrageous levels for 99% of the audiophile population. And for what? Turntables are a great example. As I previously noted, is a $360,000 table that much better than a $10,000 table or even a $3,000 table. To some golden ears, maybe. But many are just fooling themselves into thinking, the higher the price, the more complex, the better the sound. I’m not against selling these tables. Let all that can afford it feast to their heart’s content. But what’s wrong with complaining about the cost-benefit ratio and the value you get for your money? “Why should that bother you?” You’re just as annoying complaining about the complainers. He’s just offering HIS opinion; isn’t that allowed? “What the heck is the problem here?” “Some people just have to find something to complain about.” If it bothers you so much, as it seems to, “stop whining and” TURN OFF THE VIDEO!
#bingo! Well said. I'm not against anyone selling anything for whatever they think the market will bare. What I am against, however, is selling marketing bullshit to the unassuming and unknowing customer who doesn't know any better. If I spend half a million on a Rolls-Royce, I know that I will get the best made and most exclusive car on the market. If I spend half a million on a TechDAS turntable, I get a $50 Pabst motor with "fancy" machined looks and not much more "technology" despite whatever TechDAS claims otherwise. In any other industry or market, that would be considered fraud, plain and simple. In high-end audio, it's pitched as driving a Rolls-Royce. #cough #cough #wank #wank.
Needless to say, the market = manufactures = need precisely people like you to drive this illusion forward so it's only natural that you are here "complaining" about me calling out nonsense where it's due. By all means, buy whatever you want, but equally, don't be surprised when someone calls out the BS behind it.
High-End audio wants it both ways: objective measurements are fantastic when they support whatever it is they are claiming, yet, equally, measurements are the devil's calling when they call out the nonsense they are peddling. Then it quickly resorts to "well, we can't measure it really! The tools with enough precision simply do not exist to measure the marketing claims we are selling!
Anyway...