Cheers Rembo. I am going through that evolution of bike purchases trying to find that sweet spot of a bike... and I am failing. R1200GS, KTM 390 adv, Aprilia Tuareg 660. None of them do it all. I think I am closer now. R1200GS for street touring and gravel roads and a KLX-250 with a trailer for trail riding. The problem I have with the mid-size ADV bikes is that they are still heavy. Having gotten trapped under the 660 was an enlightening experience. I agree with you though. ADV bikes have gotten too big, just like any car on the road. I hope we can change the market with our wallets.
Great commentary one I have/had with myself! Yup, when I got back into riding, saw the big ADV's, thought, cool, a dirt bike and street bike, all in one (yes, I was that guy the manufactures appeal to, the person who rode dirt bikes as a kid but now want to tour, what better way than an ADV! Yippeee) Well, didn't take long to figure out the fallacy of my thinking! Anyways, use my Multi for touring with an occasional dirt/gravel road to get to a camp site, and a mid sized Adv for off road. For me, the mid sized ADV represents a challenge to learn, with about 100lbs less to deal with, but.....a big bike still, (DesertX). ADV training is in my summer plans, still learning! Thanks again Rembo and ride safe!
While having the software update done to my 21 V4S, I rode the Pike's Peak. Wow what a difference. After getting pricing info I'm walking away but I wish I had that one not mine. This is one of your best commentaries.
You’re right for 95% of folks that probably own a large ADV. There are, however, probably 5% of us (many over 60, me included) that can and do regularly use them on the 300 mile freeway drives, often enough with a lady friend comfortably on back, frequently get out on more challenging terrain than a gravel road, love the mountain twisties getting to/from those mountain off-roads, don’t sweat picking them up out of the dirt & mud when needed and see being able to as a sign of robust healthy aging, and see the minor low-speed drop damages as badges of honor or the hook for good fishing stories. :) Personally, doing all of that regularly, being able to, makes me feel like a bit of a badass!! I’ll take it every day I can get it. :) Continue to love your content though, and you've got me thinking 698 Mono might be a fun add. Stay safe!
Well said, I'm a 60+ year old retiree having returned to riding after many years. Have a Aprilia Tuareg 660 for adventure style riding. I am considering a Ducati Multistrada V4 Rally or a BMW GS 1250 Adv simply for long distance touring. I have the Tuareg for adv on and off road adv riding, but want a long distance touring bike that can go down gravel roads. As an older rider, I prefer the upright riding position of the adv style bikes vs a cruiser. As a mostly road touring bike what would you recommend????? The big adventure touring bikes are still much lighter than traditional road or cruiser bikes.
I agree 90% to your conclusion. But at 6'6" the V4S is giving me the best riding position I ever had. Typical trip length with wife is 200+ miles. And in Europe we have in certain areas the interconnection between major roads made out of dirt or gravel roads. So I'm able to cover also these sections of my trip comfortably. And we are all Adults, so we make deliberate decisions . 170 HP sounds sexy and is a good marketing aspect. So I think every ride should know his "bike use" and decide if he wants to risk 30 grands on a trail. Good recovery with your back.
I agree, completely. I was a hard core offroader, the street was wildly not welcomed by my mom when I was a kid and even as an adult in my 40's... With that said, in 2018 my wife said, can you buy a street bike and not worry about it? So I did. My first step was a Husky 701 enduro, she wanted me to get a 1200GS but I was insanely intimidated by the size and weight. What I wanted, or so I thought, was a KTM 1090 Adventure R. When I went to pick up my 701 the salesman who was very nice saw me looking at the 1090 and said, Gil if you want that we can do an incredible deal they're a huge dirt bike once you wrap you head around it. I elected to keep with the 701, rode it all over God's green earth, did the Mojave Trail, el camino del diablo (was close on gas there, had extra though), Peace Trails, numerous huge offroad loops in Utah, California and Arizona. But I wanted to get the 1090, so eventually I did. I did the Idaho BDR with it, and it was awesome BUT like you said, the offroad mode limits you to 100hp, and I had forgotten after one morning of highway section to change it back to offroad (I had the dongle), did a stream crossing and on the other side the bike went to help and stopped me completely. It was the only time I dropped the bike ever, and it was just due to my whoops. But I got it up really fast perhaps out of embarrassment, as my buddies were coming over to offer to help. On the trip people would ask me how I liked my bags, which were Mosko Moto 80L, and I would reply that I love them cause I can toss them onto my 701 too. Every single person looked at me with this perplexed look then would say some variation of, "why didn't you take that instead?" Duh, I thought to myself, for the highway run back from Canada to Twin Falls (where the trucks were parked). On the ride down, we were talking in comms about our bikes, one of my buddies on the trip has a 690 and we came to the conclusion that we would probably have been better off with them. Then we talked about how our tires were almost smoked from the journey and I said if I had ridden from Wyoming to Twin Falls I probably would have lost about 25% of my tread... The big problem we all have is on this Captain Ahab Quest to get the perfect bike, and I just don't think it exists. I got rid of the 1090 for a 500 excf and just got rid of my s1000r for a Triumph Tiger 1200 GT Pro, which if people haven't looked at they really should. Another quick story, on the Burr Trail with my 701, coming back up from Bull Frog to Torrey just before the pavement I came around a bend and this lady is wearing nothing but a sports bra and pants, whilst waving me down. I'm all uhhhh is this woman being raped or something. Turns out she had been pushing her husband's 1250GS in the road cause it turned into a Ditch Witch in the softer road. I had no clue it was remotely like this riding on a lighter bike. Ever since that day, I was always concerned at the weight of the bigger bikes, but for some reason my brain thought the 1090 was OK. Which it was? Sort of?
I have a Ducati Desert X and while I agree with some things you mentioned. Those big ADV are mainly used as adventure touring bikes. The mid class adv is probably the maximum size that a normally skilled person can take off-road. FYI, the dual sport is king but suck on the highway.
Yeah, I ride a 1250GSA and I really don't consider it a "dirt bike" at all, and never did. I bought it instead of the 1250RT for sport touring, because I do like to hit fire/forestry roads for camping or whatnot on my travels. And the GSA does beautifully at that and is more ergonomic and comfier since I am fairly tall. I think the problem is people are thinking these are dirt bikes, when really, they are touring bikes with the option for taking them off road to some degree. I will always keep the GSA for the ultimate touring travel machine that it is. Good video, I generally agree let's get into more purpose-built bikes, but many of the big ADV kind of blur the line a little, and I am sensing a trend out there that people are wanting bikes that more exactly fit the riding they do, and a bit of a backlash towards the bigger ADVs. Really, end of the day, it's just about finding the bike that you like to ride, and suits you and your riding, along with the risks and compromises you're willing to make.
I think it depends on what "off-road" means to the rider and how important having access to various terrain types really is. I took my Enduro 1200 all-over places it had no right to be. It was a lot of fun but also a lot of work compared to a dual sport or even mid-size ADV. My experience with them leads me to believe that they are great for packing a lot of gear, putting on a ton of miles, and being able to reliably manage most 4 wheel accessible roads with relatively good comfort, ease, and fun. They would not be my first choice in bike if I was actively seeking out single track as a focus for riding, etc. (although plenty do actually do that). Anecdotally, I found the Enduro 1200 to be an amazing highway hauler with the added stability of front wheel diameter, ample suspension travel, and massive fuel tank (8 gallons!!)
I bought my '22 Ducati "Multistrada" V4 PP because I'm was getting too old for the riding position of my Gen 6 Honda VFR, so I needed something with a sporting/touring nature that can approach the handling capabilities of VFR/Ninja/FZR, without the painful "crotch-rocket" posture. I have no intention of expanding the riding envelope (i.e., surfaces) of my MTS V4 PP, other than pavement. And so far, after almost 5k miles, I don't regret my purchase decision.
Hmm…. I’m only 43… I’ve noticed some things are getting more difficult. So instead of complaining about it, and making excuses, I’m weight training and exercising. I’ve got no problem lifting any of my bikes, including my work bike that I drop constantly on training days. So don’t make the excuses of “it’s too heavy”… go do work. Or buy a Royal Enfield Himalayan… Versys X300….. KTM390… CRF300LS….
Are Adventure Bikes getting too big? Are they overkill?
Cheers Rembo. I am going through that evolution of bike purchases trying to find that sweet spot of a bike... and I am failing. R1200GS, KTM 390 adv, Aprilia Tuareg 660. None of them do it all. I think I am closer now. R1200GS for street touring and gravel roads and a KLX-250 with a trailer for trail riding. The problem I have with the mid-size ADV bikes is that they are still heavy. Having gotten trapped under the 660 was an enlightening experience. I agree with you though. ADV bikes have gotten too big, just like any car on the road. I hope we can change the market with our wallets.
I agree, it takes several bikes to do it all!
Well said! I wish you a full and speedy recovery with your back issues.
Thank you very much!
you can either get the rs or continue your descent into philosophy, your call
Philosophically speaking, I want the RS but don't need the RS, therefore nothing is relevant other than my perspective from the reality I live in.
@@RemboUSMC you mentioned yourself 3 times in one sentence, it's just a bike
Great commentary one I have/had with myself! Yup, when I got back into riding, saw the big ADV's, thought, cool, a dirt bike and street bike, all in one (yes, I was that guy the manufactures appeal to, the person who rode dirt bikes as a kid but now want to tour, what better way than an ADV! Yippeee) Well, didn't take long to figure out the fallacy of my thinking! Anyways, use my Multi for touring with an occasional dirt/gravel road to get to a camp site, and a mid sized Adv for off road. For me, the mid sized ADV represents a challenge to learn, with about 100lbs less to deal with, but.....a big bike still, (DesertX). ADV training is in my summer plans, still learning!
Thanks again Rembo and ride safe!
Hey Dave, thank you for posting your story.
great topic, been talking about this for years. Not too many folks talking about it because this is a sensitive, identity-based discussion.
While having the software update done to my 21 V4S, I rode the Pike's Peak. Wow what a difference. After getting pricing info I'm walking away but I wish I had that one not mine. This is one of your best commentaries.
Thank you very much for the compliment. I always appreciate your feedback.
Spot on Rembo. That’s why some manufacturers are making 450cc machines for dual sport/rally/adventure bikes.
You’re right for 95% of folks that probably own a large ADV. There are, however, probably 5% of us (many over 60, me included) that can and do regularly use them on the 300 mile freeway drives, often enough with a lady friend comfortably on back, frequently get out on more challenging terrain than a gravel road, love the mountain twisties getting to/from those mountain off-roads, don’t sweat picking them up out of the dirt & mud when needed and see being able to as a sign of robust healthy aging, and see the minor low-speed drop damages as badges of honor or the hook for good fishing stories. :) Personally, doing all of that regularly, being able to, makes me feel like a bit of a badass!! I’ll take it every day I can get it. :) Continue to love your content though, and you've got me thinking 698 Mono might be a fun add. Stay safe!
Stay safe and thank you for taking the time to post. I appreciate your input.
Well said, I'm a 60+ year old retiree having returned to riding after many years. Have a Aprilia Tuareg 660 for adventure style riding. I am considering a Ducati Multistrada V4 Rally or a BMW GS 1250 Adv simply for long distance touring. I have the Tuareg for adv on and off road adv riding, but want a long distance touring bike that can go down gravel roads. As an older rider, I prefer the upright riding position of the adv style bikes vs a cruiser. As a mostly road touring bike what would you recommend????? The big adventure touring bikes are still much lighter than traditional road or cruiser bikes.
I think your choice of the Ducati Multistrada Rally or simply V4S or V4S Grand Tour are great choices.
I agree 90% to your conclusion. But at 6'6" the V4S is giving me the best riding position I ever had. Typical trip length with wife is 200+ miles. And in Europe we have in certain areas the interconnection between major roads made out of dirt or gravel roads. So I'm able to cover also these sections of my trip comfortably.
And we are all Adults, so we make deliberate decisions . 170 HP sounds sexy and is a good marketing aspect. So I think every ride should know his "bike use" and decide if he wants to risk 30 grands on a trail.
Good recovery with your back.
Thank you for your perspective. I will be doing another video discussing the positive aspects of a larger adventure bike.
I agree, completely. I was a hard core offroader, the street was wildly not welcomed by my mom when I was a kid and even as an adult in my 40's... With that said, in 2018 my wife said, can you buy a street bike and not worry about it? So I did. My first step was a Husky 701 enduro, she wanted me to get a 1200GS but I was insanely intimidated by the size and weight. What I wanted, or so I thought, was a KTM 1090 Adventure R. When I went to pick up my 701 the salesman who was very nice saw me looking at the 1090 and said, Gil if you want that we can do an incredible deal they're a huge dirt bike once you wrap you head around it. I elected to keep with the 701, rode it all over God's green earth, did the Mojave Trail, el camino del diablo (was close on gas there, had extra though), Peace Trails, numerous huge offroad loops in Utah, California and Arizona. But I wanted to get the 1090, so eventually I did. I did the Idaho BDR with it, and it was awesome BUT like you said, the offroad mode limits you to 100hp, and I had forgotten after one morning of highway section to change it back to offroad (I had the dongle), did a stream crossing and on the other side the bike went to help and stopped me completely. It was the only time I dropped the bike ever, and it was just due to my whoops. But I got it up really fast perhaps out of embarrassment, as my buddies were coming over to offer to help.
On the trip people would ask me how I liked my bags, which were Mosko Moto 80L, and I would reply that I love them cause I can toss them onto my 701 too. Every single person looked at me with this perplexed look then would say some variation of, "why didn't you take that instead?" Duh, I thought to myself, for the highway run back from Canada to Twin Falls (where the trucks were parked). On the ride down, we were talking in comms about our bikes, one of my buddies on the trip has a 690 and we came to the conclusion that we would probably have been better off with them. Then we talked about how our tires were almost smoked from the journey and I said if I had ridden from Wyoming to Twin Falls I probably would have lost about 25% of my tread...
The big problem we all have is on this Captain Ahab Quest to get the perfect bike, and I just don't think it exists. I got rid of the 1090 for a 500 excf and just got rid of my s1000r for a Triumph Tiger 1200 GT Pro, which if people haven't looked at they really should.
Another quick story, on the Burr Trail with my 701, coming back up from Bull Frog to Torrey just before the pavement I came around a bend and this lady is wearing nothing but a sports bra and pants, whilst waving me down. I'm all uhhhh is this woman being raped or something. Turns out she had been pushing her husband's 1250GS in the road cause it turned into a Ditch Witch in the softer road. I had no clue it was remotely like this riding on a lighter bike. Ever since that day, I was always concerned at the weight of the bigger bikes, but for some reason my brain thought the 1090 was OK. Which it was? Sort of?
Wow, great information! Thank you for offering such great information to the group. I appreciate you taking the time to do so.
I have a Ducati Desert X and while I agree with some things you mentioned. Those big ADV are mainly used as adventure touring bikes. The mid class adv is probably the maximum size that a normally skilled person can take off-road. FYI, the dual sport is king but suck on the highway.
Yeah, I ride a 1250GSA and I really don't consider it a "dirt bike" at all, and never did. I bought it instead of the 1250RT for sport touring, because I do like to hit fire/forestry roads for camping or whatnot on my travels. And the GSA does beautifully at that and is more ergonomic and comfier since I am fairly tall. I think the problem is people are thinking these are dirt bikes, when really, they are touring bikes with the option for taking them off road to some degree. I will always keep the GSA for the ultimate touring travel machine that it is. Good video, I generally agree let's get into more purpose-built bikes, but many of the big ADV kind of blur the line a little, and I am sensing a trend out there that people are wanting bikes that more exactly fit the riding they do, and a bit of a backlash towards the bigger ADVs. Really, end of the day, it's just about finding the bike that you like to ride, and suits you and your riding, along with the risks and compromises you're willing to make.
That is a lot of great information. Thank you so much for sharing with the group.
Amen brother.
I think it depends on what "off-road" means to the rider and how important having access to various terrain types really is. I took my Enduro 1200 all-over places it had no right to be. It was a lot of fun but also a lot of work compared to a dual sport or even mid-size ADV. My experience with them leads me to believe that they are great for packing a lot of gear, putting on a ton of miles, and being able to reliably manage most 4 wheel accessible roads with relatively good comfort, ease, and fun. They would not be my first choice in bike if I was actively seeking out single track as a focus for riding, etc. (although plenty do actually do that). Anecdotally, I found the Enduro 1200 to be an amazing highway hauler with the added stability of front wheel diameter, ample suspension travel, and massive fuel tank (8 gallons!!)
Excellent information. Thank you for sharing your experience.
So basically there will be no elephant hunting in the savanna with my Ducati Multistrada V4 Rally???
It would be the perfect fit for elephant hunting in the Savanna.
I bought my '22 Ducati "Multistrada" V4 PP because I'm was getting too old for the riding position of my Gen 6 Honda VFR, so I needed something with a sporting/touring nature that can approach the handling capabilities of VFR/Ninja/FZR, without the painful "crotch-rocket" posture. I have no intention of expanding the riding envelope (i.e., surfaces) of my MTS V4 PP, other than pavement. And so far, after almost 5k miles, I don't regret my purchase decision.
You and me both
Hmm…. I’m only 43… I’ve noticed some things are getting more difficult. So instead of complaining about it, and making excuses, I’m weight training and exercising. I’ve got no problem lifting any of my bikes, including my work bike that I drop constantly on training days. So don’t make the excuses of “it’s too heavy”… go do work. Or buy a Royal Enfield Himalayan… Versys X300….. KTM390… CRF300LS….
Mate your 43 come back and see me when your 63