The First Stronghold Gets DLC In 2024 | Remake Or Remaster?
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- Опубліковано 12 лют 2024
- So there's new content for Stronghold: Definitive Edition. Free updates plus a new DLC campaign expansion called Swine's Bay (game code provided) and I'm wondering what you think of it. Also, is this a Remaster or Remake? Help me figure out what those words mean as a consensus. If you want to support the channel, buy games using this GOG referral link: af.gog.com/?as=1715648857 Thank you!
Swine's Bay is a new DLC for Stronghold: Definitive Edition and it adds a new set of campaign missions in the Jewel Campaign.
The #Stronghold Definitive Edition Remaster #Remake on Steam
store.steampowered.com/app/21...
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It's a weird thing where an old game gets a rebuilt Definitive Edition but then also new DLC two decades later. What do we even call this and what do you think of it so far?
you call it what it was with a new dlc
rebuilt with newer engine(than original) means its a remake with new dlc
I wish Caesar III was rebuild in a smilar way (new, hi-res graphics)
not worth anyone's time, that's what i call it. Would rather play crusader HD
@@ShufflerBluey Not worth your time sure, but a lot of people are enjoying this and are praising Firefly for specifically doing this.
You call it retro coming back. It's that simple. New games can't do it anymore and the clever minds of yesteryears made timeless classics. These new kids ain't got any talent!!
Wood needed
Age of Empires 2: DEFINITIVE Edition was called that specific name yet they still pushed out a bunch of DLC. Which is great because it's my favorite game and I get more of it. However, the jump from HD to DE "appears" to be way bigger than Stronghold to DE.
Sorry that I have to correct you but they’re still pushing out dlcs and also they’re pushing out balance patches at least once a month
And I think the case with „age of empires definitive“ edition is kinda funny that game got even a second remake as a DLC for AOE 2 after its „definitive edition“ 😂
Yeah Stronghold Original to HD is a remaster. So if that's a remaster, what's HD to DE? A second remaster? I suppose that's possible but I don't know if there's any other game that's been remastered twice. Usually by that point they do a remake, which by technical terms Stronghold DE is but by conceptual terms a lot of it is like a remaster.
@@GamerZakh AoE2 had the same thing going. They had AoE2 HD and a few years later came up with the Definitive edition. To be fair, AoE1 and AoM also got the same treatment with lot less success and if AoE3 will shine we will see.
The idea is that remaster has its limits to keep older software still running on modern platforms. Also, the games themselves have limits backed into the code that can't be lifted. Or it would break down if you try to force new approaches into the old engine.
Total War: ROME REMASTERED (here remaster but new engine) shows this pretty intensely. The original Rome TW had a pretty limited number of factions and provinces that could be modded. But the new version completely toppled this and rather than a few hundred provinces now thousands can be done.
But sometimes a remaster or "slight" tweak can do this too, and a remaster or simple update opens up more possibilities. Like Star Wars Empire at war did some time ago. Where the steam editions got an update out of the blue, lifting limitations for the modding community.
To my knowledge, Stronghold never had a huge modding community, so I don't see much happening in that regard, but Firefly can prove me wrong.
HD was testing the waters for interest and making a quick buck. There were minimal technical changes. Basically no investment. The original game with userpatch was running better for a long time.
DE was them reacting to the apparent interest and realizing they had to put actual work into code and art to move forward (with improving and monetizing the game)
Congratulations on 200K!!!!
Thank you!
Definitely a remaster, a remake is a complete overhaul, which this is not.
I've recently been told by quite a few people that FF7 Rebirth is NOT a remake and that remakes are more like the original game. The problem is everyone has their own personal definitions for these words.
@@GamerZakhBut FF7 is a reimagination
@@NationOfMasturbation Says you, other people say other things.
In my understanding a remaster is keeping what made the prior game itself, and simply elevate with graphically and maybe some fixes from what was learned of its time before (I'd say Stronghold DE is this).
A remake is that which is done based mainly based by the original idea/gameplay, but amplifying it or modifying it almost entirely to make something new without making it strange.
Things like Pharaoh: The New Era and this Stronghold Definitive Edition exists in a liminal space between remaster and remake; created like a remake (built from the ground up with a new engine) but with remaster sensibilities (the same game in terms of design, just with a new coat of paint and QOL improvements). So... remaster-like remake?
43:00 i think you forgot you can build crenelation in front of the stone walls.so it will look better and have more defense than putting wooden palisade in front of the walls.
Jeez what a blast from the past. I'll have to check this out.
Yes! Going to get this! Thank you
is it me , but the narrator sounds like Sean Bean. any we to check up on that? btw loving playing this game again.
This is why i follow this channel , this plays the role of my steam whitelist reminder
Anyone knows how to extract the game graphics files for modding?
I think among the OG Stronghold fans personally view it as a remake because of sadly (in my perspective) but (in their individual perspectives) thankfully there is no entirely new additional, military units, resources, buildings, Castle structures, and Castle defenses( defensive siege engines and such that wasn't necessarily already in OG Stronghold's sequel Stronghold Crusader).
I think it's great we have DLC for these old favorites! Instead of making new games that get some things right and some wrong, I think that it makes so much sense to sometimes make a Definitive Edition of an old favorite that everyone loves and then make even more content for it. Just like for AoE 2 DE. Imagine getting Dawn of War 1 DE and DLC, balance and pathfinding improvements, etc. for it. That would be glorious.
I just hope we get Skirmish as one of the DLCs and then Stronghold Crusader as a beefy DLC to the original game. I'm totally fine with paying for content like that because I'm playing more of the stuff I love and the game I love gets to enjoy more updates and love from the developers, instead of a new game that's under constant pressure to reinvent the wheel because if it doesn't people call it "too samey" and just brush it aside. I'm not saying that new games should not be made, far from it. I like AoE 4. I just feel like a looot of RTSes would benefit from the treatment that AoE got. Love to the entire franchise. Both past and future.
We can call it.... Remakester...?
Ah the 'no one is happy' option haha
@@GamerZakh haha wouldn't called it that with so many labels (remake, remaster, definitive, ultimate, special, etc.) to choose from, in the end there's new content and that's a plus.
"Compromise is everyone's second favorite option, right?" ;) I can get behind Remakester.
The lack of diverse food, and lack of spearmen for the walls hurts to watch
Hmm, I guess the industry orients itself at the success of the AOE "definitive" edition that is a remake = new engine, new code structure, but also remaster = polishing older assets to make them more presentable to modern audience.
While I don't really see the point to call it definitive, but I guess the Idea behind is "What could have been done back then, we could do today?" So while you rebuild an engine for an old game and try to use as many assets as possible... why not fresh it up?
I guess blizzard tried to make themselves stand out with their "reforged" which is technically not as limited as "definitive" ... but well we saw how that turned out at first.
Anyway, I find it's a fair approach. The Industry quickly treated DLCs as an easy way to sell you small content with way less particular investment. But it's in fact a good way to support an already existing game if it's done with some thought behind.
Especially for firefly, always struggling to make a decent main title. But they do have interesting ideas, and if a new engine can support some additions that weren't possible back then, why not?
If they could add some elements of Stronghold2 like traversable buildings, dismounting and prestige it would be quite interesting. Of course, the first will be hard, but some other aspects I could see added.
Personally, I think it is a remaster if the changes are mostly cosmetic (upscale, better graphics, UI, etc...), while it is a remake if you start to introduce changes in the game mechanics or the story
First! Need some Timberborn love soon Zakh!
Maybe when it fully releases?
Remake of the remaster, perhaps?
It kind of is, because the HD version is a remaster.
does the multiplayer work?
Yeah there's multiplayer but no AI.
I believe terms "remaster" and "remake" are quite easily distinguished.
Remaster - is the original(!) game using the same engine and in most cases even the same assets but it's being updated to run on modern systems, it might also have lots of graphic and UX improvements which are possible to do but the core gameplay rules and feeling of the game are left intact.
Remake - is developed from scratch(!), which might not even be limited by the need to match the original gameplay by 100%. It might even look and feel 100% identical to the original game though but it might also even be a game of a different genre, if original authors rethought the concept of the game. (for example they were not able to make a game they imagined 20 years ago with technologies and budgets of their time and now they can implement all the ideas they had back then but were forced to abandon for various reasons).
Thing is, I've had a lot of people say it's easy to distinguish and then give completely different definitions from each other.
@@GamerZakh i tend to rely on already established definitions for "remaster" in music or cinema industry such as:
remastered; remastering; remasters
transitive verb
: to create a new master of especially by altering or enhancing the sound quality of an older recording
Remaster by definition requires an older (original) material which serves as a base for an updated product. Or another example with movies: when one takes an already existing footage and enhances it in some way - it would be a remaster. While filming it again (even with the same actors and the same script) - it would be a remake.
@@theflaw7400 And that's also what the other people say, they just interpret the words differently. Some say this Stronghold DE is just "altering or enhancing the quality of something older". Although it was rebuilt in a new engine, the art was traced or upscaled, the music is composed the same if not is the same, the old voice lines are the same old voice lines. The character 3D animations and cinematics are just upscaled or reused. So they insist this is a remaster, not a remake.
On the other hand, the remake crowd says this is 'reshot' and interpret things from that angle, so they insist this is a remake, not a remaster.
@@GamerZakh i think Stronghold DE is more than just "altering or enhancing the quality of something older" since the base of the game had been recreated with new technologies on the new engine. It might seem to someone as an insignificant detail but it's crucial in distinguishing remakes from remasters.
Arguments about reusage of some old assets as a criteria to consider it a remaster instead of a remake does not apply well to the same approach but, for example, with a movie.
Let's take, for example, Peter Jackson, all the cast of original "The Lord of the Rings Fellowship of the Ring" movie and even the same script - if one day they'll gather to shoot all the scenes of Fellowship of the Ring again to make a movie (maybe with some insignificant adjustments or maybe even without any at all) - will this movie be a remaster of "The Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring" 2001 movie or a remake?
I believe it would be a remake - 100%. Despite the fact that it's the same movie director, the same cast, the same script and maybe even some old props if they still exist somewhere.
@@theflaw7400 Well I call this a remake and so do you, but I did a poll and 70% of people call this a remaster. Most people consider this a remaster, we're the minority.
even more detailed than AOE
Solid effort! I think the forward towers is definitely a good strategy
Your gold stocks grow steadily sire.
DLC meaning?
DLC stands for 'DownLoadable Content', but it's used for expansions, new content, or anything to add to the game really that's sold separately from the base game. They can be $60 massive expansions or $1 for a new item.
It looks like the same game engine to me. Did they just export the assets to a different engine? Also is the engine an altered version of the original engine or is it a completely different engine. To me it looks like a remaster. Like its a hd collection .A remake would be something that looks completely different graphically to me like a ff7 remake in a new engine because its the game remade in a very different way or re4 remake.
It looks the same but it isn't. This is rebuilt in Unity which is completely different from the original game. They tried to export assets but a lot couldn't be copied over because they used plugins and software that don't work anymore, so they recreated a lot of it from scratch. Even the new characters in the new campaign, they animated in the style of the original animations, so it looks older but is actually brand new. This is why the confusion and conflicting opinions. It's trying to draw a line where it's "different enough" to be called a remake, and everyone is drawing that line in a different place.
@@GamerZakh so technically it is a remake. But it just looks like a remaster. They remade the game to be basically identical to the original game but compatible with modern systems
@@lycanlube7484 Yeah basically, but also gameplay balance has been changed in the campaign too and they added a new campaign and now DLC too, plus Steam multiplayer support. And the graphics for everything were redone from scratch, but intending to be the same style as the original. Some consider that enough to be a remake and some don't.
@@GamerZakh id say technically it is a remake, but traditionally doesnt look it because most remakes have dramatic graphical improvements and or change gameplay content/mechanics like RE2 remake. Im glad they stuck to the original art style anyways because games like caesar 3 and stronghold look really nice visually
It's a remake that looks like remaster.
why they did not added new soldiers
They need to add more resources like pumpkins, honey apiaries, and fishing.
Ngl, after finishing it. We need skirmish mod
Never could play this game because the units took up the same space on walls making defense very unrealistic
wait wait wait they added dlc but it didnt include skirmish vs AI the HIGHLY requested feature LOL firefly LOL
No it didn't include that, because the original game never had it they would have to do it from scratch and they were very clear about not being able to add that from the start. They said they couldn't do it an they'll never do it, which is also why they dropped the price of this release to $15. If you're waiting for AI skirmish, then you can stop waiting, they'll likely never do it for this game.
Pero no es como el otro que se hacia escaramusa y podias pelear contra 4, esto es como solo hacer misiones que basura
double rations!
Remaster - you are taking something and "master it", make it reach its peak potential, but leave its core unchanged.
Remake - you remake something from the ground up.
At least that's my interpretation.
So how about this where it was remade from the ground up? The only thing carried over is mission design and the old voice lines, even that was tweaked and rebalanced.
@@GamerZakh I'd still consider it a remaster. They've intentionally limited themselves to the look and mechanics of the original. They've polished them the best they could and done a great job. To my definition of remake I'd add "using current technology". You take an "idea/story/concept" of the original and integrate it with modern solutions. And I want to state 1 thing: I don't think of remasters any less. I think their goal is to preserve the original while remake's is to introduce the game/movie anew.
I call it "Definitive edition".
its a REMAKSTER
It's a remaster cause they didn't add any QoL improvements... no skirmish mode, no multiplayer ai, and rubbish map selection... oh and no workshop either. so disappointed with this, especially after AoE2 DE has been such a massive success
There are QoL improvements, there is Steam multiplayer, UI and gameplay QOL enhancements like with the market, and there is Steam Workshop. This is the Workshop page: steamcommunity.com/app/2140020/workshop/ and all old community maps work in DE, so there are over 3000 maps you can download on the Workshop right now.
Main thing though is if 'no QoL improvements' means it's a remaster, then this is a remake because it has QoL improvements.
@@GamerZakh I didn't know about the workshop, and that maps are backwards compatible, thanks for letting me know. I still think its a remaster as the QoL improvements are the bare minimum for any release in 2024. Besides that the game is virtually copy and paste, there's very little added to the game except some bonus campaigns. AoE2 DE is how its meant to be done, where they took the existing game and made everything better plus enabled workshop, ingame mod support, loads of new civs, etc.
I'm disappointed that we didn't even get a coop mode... would love to be able to play with friends, not against them
Ok, I will take your bait for writing a UA-cam comment.
A lot of people speak in terms of content.
If they see the same content on launch but a modernized look they call it a remaster. On the flip side, they called it a remake if the game "feels" new. More than that they will call a remaster even after the game receives new content. I could understand it and I disagree with that.
For me, it's really simple. If the core code of the game is made from scratch it is remake. It's much more work than adding some high-quality textures and adding a few lines at some config to support 4k resolution. If in such a case game behaves like the old one it's a very good remake. (this is not our case) It can be challenging to see the difference for a casual player. The most simple way - look for bugs and features. If the game has the same bugs or missing core features - it's remastered.
This is a remake.
Thank you! It's less bait and more people got really mad at me for calling it a remake, but then when I ask them to provide a definition, this fits their definition of a remake. I tend to ask these questions to get a sense of what people actually think, but also to get people to actually reason an answer and see how hard it is before they jump on me.
It has the same bugs and core features! Making it a remaster by your own definition...
What are you on about?
This is NOT rebuild from the ground up. Who sold you that idea?
@@holyhandgrenadeofantioch2234
The same set of bugs and features is not a definition, but the criteria that code underhood is different. The definition is new code underhood.
And sure we have some same bugs that are inherited from the game engine, but a lot of old bugs are missing and there are few fresh ones. Sames with features.
For example in the original stronghold, you can get a partially collapsed overview using a right-button menu. That view looks different from "spacebar" overview, but in the DE edition it does the same thing as "spacebar". Clear indication that during the developing process, they dropped this feature.
Another example is the castle tax bar which behaves differently from the original game. In the original game clicking on the bar (not the arrow) changes taxes for one level at a time. In the new game, taxes jump straight to the point where you click. This means that this bar is programmed differently from the original.
There are a lot more examples like this. From very different behaviors of how workers decide to put resources in the stockpile to the inability to dismiss units that actively fighting.
I wish they replicate old behavior. I have too many cases when I rely on old tricks just to realize that in DE it works differently.
I bet they used the old version of the game engine (because some bugs in DE and the original Stronghold are fixed in Stronghold Crusaders) but reimplemented the game almost from scratch using the original as a reference.
So if its same missions with same content and mechanics but with new graphics - its remaster.
If its has new or reimagined missions, mechanics but with same overall flow - its remake.
No. Its quite simple. They either made the game new or they didn't. If they didn't, its called a remaster
So this has the same and new missions, but the new missions were recreated in a new engine. There are the old missions which are kept the same design, but then there's a new campaign with completely new mission.
@@Cenot4ph Now you gotta define "made the game new" haha
You need a bit more practice it seems! 🤣
Haha I'm sure I would've won if I didn't let all my soldiers fall to the ground.
remake is a new game based on an old game....remaster is the same game it was before. Resident evil 2 remake is new, last of us is a remaster. Also things like GTA 3 definitive are in a new engine, now one would call that a remake
So the problem is the interpretation of what a "new game" is. Everyone draws where 'new' starts differently.
@@GamerZakh I think the games that made this unclear are Demon souls and the last of us part 1. What these games did was increase fidelity, add some features, and probably engine upgrades. However they are fundamentally the same game and operate largly off the original code... This is no differnt than Tomb Raider 1-3 remaster, Metriod Prime Remaster, or Resident Evil 0 and Resident Evil 1 remake remasters. Arguably those 3 games made much bigger leaps. however all 5 of them are fundamentally the same game. The easiest examples of remakes are the resident evil remakes, all of them are clearly differnt games, that do not take anything from the originals other than story, sometimes making large changes as well, they dont play, look or feel the same and dont have the same underlying code. The engines dont really matter
@@MeCrazy516 Yeah but the other day I got someone adamant that a remake needs to be closer to the original than games like that or like FF7 Rebirth. They said those are so different they're totally new games, so they aren't remakes anymore because they're nothing like the originals at all. People's opinions are so diverse and everyone is so sure of their own definitions of these words, I'm put in this impossible situation where no matter what I call these games people come for me for being wrong.
@@GamerZakh that sounds pretty backwords...a remaster is taking something old and polishing it, thats why it uses the term master. Probably comes from film, and taking the old master and cleaning it up and enhancing it. a remake is for a new game based one something old, to stick with movies, the 1981 version of The Thing is a well known remake. if your making something your creating something, not re using something
@@MeCrazy516 Conceptually, everyone agrees with that, but It's all just about where people draw the line of 'making something new'. Stronghold DE made new graphics, new code, new engine, new animations, new textures, new missions, new additional story, new voice acting. Some say that's 'new enough' and is a remake. Others say that's not new enough and say it's a remaster. And some say if it's 'too new' it's actually a reboot like what I would call the upcoming Empire of the Ants or a spiritual successor like War for the Overworlds.
You can bring up any technical definition or historical context and Stronghold DE can be interpreted into either a remaster or remake because the interpretations are inconsistent.
Trigs poops
Let's split the balance and call it "cash grab".
Is it a cash grab when everyone kept telling them to do it and they refused to do it for years but people kept asking them to do it so they finally did it and it got 8.5/10 on Steam?
Can't cash grab if there's not an enthusiastic fanbase to cash grab from. Err, grab cash from ...
Naw, it was just a bit of snark. 3$ or what for a DLC in today's release environment is borderline generous. At SEGA you can't even get features that clearly belong in the game from the beginning for that money. At PDX, you might, but there'd be 57 of those DLC ...
It is NOT rebuild from the ground up.
It is the original code, wrapped in unity to allow adding functionality. Guess for the only parts of the game that actually changed: UI and interaction with servers (steam api) to allow using the workshop, setting up multiplayer, etc.
This puts it into the territory of "elaborate reskin" or "reskin with quality of life patch". Never would it deserve the title remaster or remake.
Just like HD edition, which was firefly patching the game so it actually kept running on newer systems and allows for higher resolutions. You know: So they can actually keep selling the product before it receives abandonware status.
But they keep selling that to the community as their generous free upgrade. Snakeoil salesmen at work.
I'm not here to defend Firefly or anything, but I just want to note that there's not really such a thing as abandonware status. Legally there's no such thing as abandonware. Firefly doesn't have to do anything to keep ownership and selling ability of the old Stronghold games. Abandonware is just a user term for games where no one enforces the law on it or no one knows who owns the right the enforce the law. And now with Firefly being owned by Devolver Digital, even if Firefly shuts down, Stronghold won't be abandoned. Devolver would maintain the rights to Stronghold.
Besides that, what I mean by "built from the ground up" is that you can't just take code from an old engine, copy/paste it into Unity, and have it work. They could reference the old code, rewrite it to be 'translated' into modern Unity code, and of course there would be lots of new code to make it work. "The original code, wrapped in unity" is not what you make it sound like. When I say "rebuilt" I mean essentially it's like a dilapidated building that had all the bricks taken out, then those bricks used to rebuild a new structure that looks a lot like the original structure. Although it's not 100% new, it was 'rebuilt'. Of course this is interpretation on language, which is subjective and ever evolving, but that's what I mean so go with that. Not much use just arguing semantics.
If you want to be specific, you should give elaborate and detailed definitions that you use for what is a 'remake' and 'remaster'. Then, consider pretty much every single person has a different definition that they use. I've heard literally dozens of conflicting 'definitions'.