I'm Irish-stubborn, keep my own counsel, don't tell me what I can't do...if only doggedness were monetized 😂 "They call you crazy till you prove them wrong, then they just call you lucky."
Nick, all these experiments that you are documenting and putting out to others is extremely beneficial to everyone. Instead of starving obese people for 14 or 30 days and making ridiculous conclusions, the idea of studying people who Don’t gain weight no matter what they do is going to open up the world of knowledge. It is quite amazing all the things you are willing to do and eat. Thank you.
All this indicates is that variability between people and the fact that these LDL metrics change so quickly depending on what you eat, there is no way this metric can be used to assess anything. It's just a convenient measurement because it can be done so easily, but to base a whole treatment plan on something so variable makes no sense at all. I don't understand how the statin and decreasing cholesterol theory is still pertinent.
I've used this protocol to reduce my LDL to pass a military medical twice now, it works in just two days of 5,000 calories a day of fats, a third and fourth day reduces it a bit more each day but for me, most of the LDL reduction happened in the first 48 hours. I did have a blood test after two days, then the third and forth day to see the change. Warning! Eating that many calories of pure cream and cheese is not pleasant, OMG, stuffed. Try drinking 1000 ml of heavy cream in one shot, not so fun. Again, my LDL went DOWN, not up, but most important for what I needed was the LDL to HDL ratios went back to the normal range which is what I needed to pass the test, otherwise I was going to have to due a nuclear stress test with heart echocardiogram which I wanted to avoid due to my age, fearing I'd fail it due to being too out of shape. What I did was a CHEAT, but most doctors are clueless this can be done.
Shawn baker did something like this as well…cholesterol is a dynamic measurement, putting people on drugs for a dynamic measurement is complete insanity
@@nicknorwitzPhD talking about dynamic measurements so is your fast glucose this is just a waste of time also. I’m currently using a cgm and it changes depending on exercise, time of the day or carb eating which have only eaten to check things out. My glucose doesn’t change when I eat my normal meal of meat. Which means my glucose level is always a fasting reading except when carbs are introduced. Btw without carbs tit varies from 120-60
I tried the Feldman protocol and my LDL went up and my TG went down. I am not lean mass, I am obese. The Feldman protocol obviously does not work for everybody. I could not speculate as to the reasons why. I did not want to tell my GP what I had done and had to argue about refusing statins.
Like you, I'm obese, so I'm saying this as someone with similar experience, not in a negative way. We are obese because we are metabolically unhealthy with chronically high insulin and damaged mitochondria. It's impossible to lose weight until our insulin is low. Our fat cells are already jam packed full. The Feldman protocol is clearly for someone who is metabolically healthy.
Oh, and just wanted to give a tool for talking to your doctor about what is more important, statins or something else (like diet). Here's a link to a video by Dr Ken Berry, "How to NOT DIE from a Heart Attack" ua-cam.com/video/BIg8A_i4hhI/v-deo.html
I love your nuanced approach. Your honest understanding of what missing data means to the health community, and your recommendations as few and far between as those recommendations are.
Hi Nick, this comment is unrelated to the current video but I was wondering if you’d be willing to make a compilation video of sorts on the keto foods/meals you eat in a week. I can’t speak for anyone else but I personally would find that very helpful/interesting. Thank you for taking the time to read this comment.
I love, absolutely love your approach to explain and modify your existing hypothesis to accommodate this last experiment instead of writing it off as an outlier like has been done by controversial figures in nutrition research. It really seems like you, Feldman, and colleagues are developing are great working theory of human metabolism that's been missing
I have no idea what to think or believe anymore. I’ve eaten meat my entire life and avoided vegetables because they taste like shit. Last few years I’ve been avoiding carbs. I fast a lot because I’m never hungry and not by a conscious decision to starve myself. I seem healthy enough but I really have no idea!
@@Ge1Ri4, Except that the scan for CAC only shows hard (calcified) plaques. Soft plaques not detected by it are less stable and more prone to break loose and cause a clot/blockage. See Dr. Ford Brewer's videos comparing different methods (CIMT, stress test, NIVL Duplex Scan, CAC score) of assessing risks for cardiovascular disease.
At 67, my health and longevity *IS* a crap shoot. They lied to us about the 'dangers' of saturated fat; The disregard for carbohydrates' effect on insulin levels affected my ability to lose weight; The poisoning of my metabolism with industrially processed seed oils which have no place in the human diet; And the messaging by the federal government nutritional guidelines to avoid meat (in itself a religious belief, which makes it un-constitutional IMHO); means that I had to get guidance from UA-cam. I believe that this community saved my life. where would you put your money?
Some variables that might not be accounted for in this experiment. Eating a certain number of calories assumes those calories are all going into the body, there are variables that can change this even in the same person. Going to guess that your GI wasn't too happy and let you know. Also, that change in fiber would impact the microbiome in your gut which would be another variable that would make a difference, guessing trying to get the calories but limiting that fiber increase would change things, especially considering your GI history. You could also have a microbiome vastly different from your "average" person given past history, I think you mentioned having Inflammatory Bowel Disease, CD I think, damage to the gut from that would change how or what gets absorbed along with the potential of having gut bacteria that interacts with food much differently from others. I don't know the types of fats that you ate, but different types of fat absorb more or less depending on their type, the fiber can also change how much gets absorbed. Without being used to eat that many calories or those type of calories I'm not sure what impact that would have, the microbiome and the cells of the gut can change depending on what you eat and likely would take longer to absorb more of what you eat. Finally, there does seem to be impact of what food goes in based upon gut/brain interactions, as you likely have pointed out, we are not a test tube and the biology of our body is much more complex than most realize. Also recommend listening to the recent Huberman podcast where he talks with someone about the Gut/Brain interactions, that added some context to gut things that I hadn't thought about and would likely help you with future experiments involving food.
This is a great response to consider. We are learning more and more about the micro biome and how much it really affects how we respond to food. So it really isn’t so much the calories. It’s what type of food, the makeup of the food, nutrient density and how gut bacteria interact with it. We all know someone who can eat anything and not gain a single lb. Yet some people swear they gain a pound just walking past the bakery.
You are missing the effect of the FADH2:NADH ratio - you might want to read up on the proton series at hyperlipid. Fat is not one thing - but a family of things - each with different effects. We did not evolve to eat high dosages of plant oils. Anyway - the LDL theory of CVD is pretty much dis proven - a better way to look at CVD is as a thrombotic disease - A good place to start is with Kendricks' books. Insulin levels are way more predictive - chronically high insulin as is found in people suffering from T2D. Insulin is not just about blood glucose levels - it shuts down autophagy - reducing the ability to re-absorb blood clots that lead to narrowed arteries.
I'm already lost the plot but here are some possibly related ideas: - Eating that much fat might not get absorbed (bile secretion works as a safety valve), and the increased protein would lead to effectively higher protein ratio which might turn into glucose. - I heard someone mention that cholesterols and plant sterols would affect LDL differently so if you changed your fat sources, things could change. Also, in case of unabsorbed fat, some types of fat could absorb with different priority.
thanks for this!!! I love your open mind and your integrity. I also did the Feldman protocol, just to see what would happen- before my LDL was 310, afterwards my LDL jumped to 524! It shocked me. My triglycerides doubled (still under 100- my tris are usually around 43), and my HDL went from 81 to 89. 1 lb weight gain. Also my heart rate jumped from 57 to 73 and my blood pressure went from 90/54 to 116/72. Overfeeding is REALLY not my friend. I started adding in 40 grams of carbs a day, divided between two meals and my LDL dropped to 180, my tri's back down to 45 and my HDL went back to 81. Interesting sh*t.
You share the facts/results of your experiment with everybody, and then start with your thoughts and explanation 👍. A lot of people don’t do it like that…
Thanks for the video! My personal experiment didn’t go so well: it appeared that carnivore plus TRT gives you a heart attack. I’ve been preaching low-carb diets for about 18 years. Last five years I’m on carnivore. And also was abusing PED’s for about 10 years. Now I have my coronary arteries plaqued. I am about to do a surgery. Unfortunately we do not have much data on that the price is too high guys
so much passion I love your vids helps me stay keto, while almost everybody around me says Im crazy and have dead wish, and one more beautiful thing about keto after a heavy workout next day my muscles are not sore as they used to be when I was thinking that carb are the MAIN fuel for energy, I said sore, what I meant was actually next day I feel stronger and it lasts longer
Answering virtually every comment, I have to admire the commitment. And having the capacity to do this in the context of keeping research and med school responsibilities on track. When I was in med school after prepping and eating some real food, keeping myself washed, dressed and fit, the only time left in each day was for about 4 hrs of sleep. I reassured myself at the time it would only be for a short while. It turned out that was the baseline for the next 40 years.
@@nicknorwitzPhD Perhaps I was whining. Rather, I would see it as a near optimal path for me. Some more sleep would give me a few less grey hairs and slightly better metabolic health. But the memories are irreplaceable. I was never able to attend a game or graduation but despite that my 4 children are all in the health care space. Like me they thought I was doing important work and having fun. Don't slow down, I'm just impressed. In 40 years I won't be around to compare notes to see who saved more lives or had more fun.
Your passion for science and learning is inspiring! I am hoping that I can participate in similar academic discourse and discovery when I start medical school!
@@nicknorwitzPhD Not confirmed acceptance yet. Taking my MCAT in a few weeks 🤞 . Hoping to attend University of MN. This would be a second career for me!
I am like you nick, same frame and build. Always ate close to keto for the last 10 years unintentionally. Now about to move to full keto... Cheers for the breakdown. Your a very clever boy.
@@nicknorwitzPhD have you posted anywhere the breakdown of what you eat daily? Not trying to copy. Have my own stuff l will always eat. Specially makeral and sardines. Always looking for ideas
I've done this as well before prior to certain labs just to test it out. Definitely worked for my cholesterol lowering. Doctor didn't care much, though. I will say whenever I ate so much my temperature will _always_ go up by A LOT. Like I'll be waking up at night in a pool of sweat and so on. My heart rate can as well go from 45-50 resting to a whopping 100 resting heart rate depending on just how much I've eaten the previous day. I don't gain much weight either as my weight will usually drop to below previously measured within a week or two tops, no matter how much I tried to overfeed myself. It's quite interesting. I've done a 10MCal a day for a week experiment before as well, though with processed foods. It didn't end well as I literally couldn't walk by the end, it was wild, but it taught me what ultra porcessed foods do to your body really well. Meanwhile overeating (though less kcal) on a keto-diet had none of thse bad symptoms.
I find these n=1 experiments really interesting. Keep going! I switched from Plant based high carb diet to omnivore low carb recently, and have started seeing LMHR signs in blood tests (I've been lean all my life, and last 3 years at at my 15 year lowest weight).
@@nicknorwitzPhD My fiber intake is >20g a day (20-30 I'd say). Fat around 65-70% of calories. BMI = 18,4. It used to be 20,5 before my 3y plant based period 😅 Trying to do more strength exercise and eat what my body asks for without forcing (I'm tired of forcing to gain weight). My plan is to stay low carb, although I do exceptions, and to alternate with some keto periods. I just targeted being in ketosis once and I entered ketosis (I measured), without big effort (staying below 50g carbs). My evolution in 9 months since I changed from Plant based (high carbs low-medium fat) to omnivore (decreasing carbs and increasing fat intake over this period, but still moderate-low carbs when I did my test 3m ago): LDL from 79 to 210; Trigl from 124 to 76; HDL from 36 to 65. I'll get a blood test done soon, will see how it goes now that I've been low carb (with exceptions). Thank you!!
@@nicknorwitzPhD Thanks for your answer. I'd say my fiber intake is >20g (20-30), and 65-70% fat. Why you ask especially for this ratio? My BMI is 18,4 😅. It used to be 20,4 before WFPB diet with normal activity. Now I eat: Vegetables or salad with every meal (2 or 3) (prioritizing low glycemic index), some nuts/seeds. Meat, fish, eggs, some goat/sheep cheese/yogurt. Raw Coconut & Olive Extra virgin oils, avocados. I don't eat (only occasionally): sugars, flours, starches (only resistant ones), refined oils. Evolution in 9 months since I progressivly changed from Whole Foods Plant Based (high carbs, low fat) to 3 months ago (omnivore low/mid carb) (when I got lab test). During that time I : LDL from 79 to 211 HDL from 36 to 65 Trigl from 124 to 76 My plan is to continue low carb with Keto phases, to reassess shortly as I'll get some blood tests done soon. Thank you! Best regards.
It might be interesting to see liver enzymes changes before and after too. The few comments here also couldn't replicate the Feldman protocol, so what happens when there are other responses? Conventional wisdom would suggest the high fats would also encourage NAFLD, something that most people don't test for UA-cam videos - probably because there isn't a pinprick way to do it, I guess. Disclaimer: I'm currently the "whole foods plant based" other than milk, the occasional detours to fish and poultry/eggs... basically, I like the whole foods plant based logic for a sanity check on my weight, but am not a fanatic. Keto doesn't work for me. I was healthy all my life and going keto in solidarity with a diabetic ex wrecked my liver enzymes (though I did lose weight fast) and after quitting, my blood glucose started showing occasionally prediabetic and I'm still trying to find my way back to good old boring tests with everything reading tediously "normal". So I'm rather wary about keto's effects on the liver and it would be interesting to know that this is safe. (BTW, in case anybody is wondering why I am getting checked regularly if I was always healthy... mainly curiosity, but also to encourage my aged mother to agree to the tests as "normal" without panicking that I think she has some serious disease - she doesn't, apart from schizophrenia and an anxiety disorder. So we both just get extensive tests done twice a year and that is it - our home culture. No cause for concern. We're just using tech for information because it exists.)
IKR!!! Sometimes I slip intentionally to see if Dave Feldman catches me out and if I have taught him properly ... hasn't happened yet... sadly. One day, and on that day I'll be like, "You've done well, grasshoppers"
A lot of food for thought here, great vid. As someone who's also chronically lean and doing similar experiments, let me add some: I guess your diet wasn't ketogenic anymore due to the insane amount of protein and total calories. When I go overboard like that, sometimes it knocks me out of ketosis for more than 24 hours. Also my morning glucose is way higher than I'd like and it's difficult to get to comfortable levels during the day. The level of protein is specially important here. It seems your diet was very Omega 6 heavy (relatively speaking), I would definitely ditch nut butters next time (a teaspoon per meal max). Macadamia is not the worst offender but it adds up. Coconut milk is a great source of calories for this kind of thing. Thanks for sharing this experiment 👍
I'm a lay person so forgive my ignorance. Am I correct in understanding that thr reason the Feldman protocol did not work for Nick was because he raised his energy expenditure ie he was doing more exercise while he was on it than he normally does?
Hey Nick, with most of the calories in the form of fat and only 40 grams of carbs. Would most of the fat go through the GI track into the toilet. If this happens, we can assume that the stool will be loose and float. With a low carb intake, your insulin level would also be low, therefore inhibiting fat storage. Great content as always, just wanted to add some input.
Brad Marshall might be interested in these results. Given the high amounts of MUFAs, his 'torpor' theory suggests your metabolism would have slowed (unless, despite what looks like a high MUFA intake, you really had a predominately saturated fat intake). Your result suggests an 'emergence' response, where metabolism speeds up and fat gain is depressed in favor of energy production for spring and summer high activity.
I tried to look at the maccros, that ketobrick has 50g SFA so he may not be that high MUFA. But also to Brads theory, the Stored mufa is a problem, in LMHR they are so thin, there isn't much stored anything.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. It would have been interesting to see subcutaneous vs visceral fat ratio diff before and after . To do justice to that, you would have had to get a DEXXA scan. Personally, my priority is on keeping my visceral fat at optimal levels. Subcutaneous fat may look ugly as you prolly already know, it is not as cardiometabolically lethal. Anecdotally speaking only with all other things being equal , I know that when I dramatically overconsume calories even for a week with all other things be equal(no sleep deprivation, no change in cardio or resistance training, etc.,) or more, the first place any minimal bf% goes is viscreally as per pre and post Dexxa scan. In the interests of fairness and respectfully, I have not had any pre and post bloodwork done doing that to see how it messes with my LDL. That would be interesting to do in the future to directly track how any visceral bf% increase no matter how minimal effects that I presume there would likely be a significant jump in LDL and if nothing else Triglycerides. Interestingly and on a somewhat related issue, I found absolutely no increase or decrease in my RHR Thanks again, I love that you think outside the box,,and are not afraid of backlash. Keep up the great work. I love all your content
Yes, LDL rises with fat & protein intake & reduces as you have proved on a carbs- sugar diet. High LDLs should be the norm, but the average Joe or Jill with their largely carb diet ( sugar diet) reduces LDL to what many think is a normal range.
As the proud owner of the genetic FH defect, is there anyone on UA-cam or any publications that you trust that talks about the disease in a detail that doesn't get too into the weeds? Thank you.
Even those science stuff are junk, it's all about having access to nutritious food. We know everything but nothing and we're listening to cult leaders instead having faith în God
I was just thinking the same. Would all of these health stats be effected the same way with more evil calories introduced? Hmmm...for someone who is challenged to gain weigh or LMHR types, what about if those calories were coming from "keto junk food" , doughnuts, or even Doritos, etc. After all, a calorie is a calorie is a calorie? I think most would agree, not so. Just a week long experiment maybe as done last time. I would never suggest anyone do this for a sustained longer period of time though. Yikes!
Several times I’ve noticed that my resting heart rate tends to increase materially after I eat a dinner of pork belly. I thought it was my digestive system working harder, but perhaps it was my metabolism deciding to quickly spend the luxury of having just ingested so much energy.
I'd be curious how this experiment would go with 0 carbohydrates--there is no such thing as an "essential carbohydrate" after all so it shouldn't be dangerous. But the question would be, how would your fat cells react in such a low insulin environment. Only basal or cephalic insulin. Could they uptake and retain any fat at all?
Other macros can stimulate insulin. And I was ketogenic through this experiment. But it’s next to impossible for me to consume >6000 Cal/day for a week without any carbs at all
Did you monitor your salt/sodium intake? I read that increased salt can elevate osmolality, which can induce indigenous fructose production. This process helps achieve the transient insulin resistance required to store fat, right? I hope to see an experiment on the effects of excessive salt during a keto diet.
Was there any change in your triglycerides and HDL ? Would be interesting to know, what the trend is (according to your n=1) of the expected response......As per lipid energy model, assuming your LDL went up because of your increased energy expenditure, and as you have been a lean mass hyperresponder, for enough time to reach homeostasis, a mild increase in HDL and mild decrease in triglycerides as well
It would be very interesting if you could test the hypothesis that the increased LDL was driven by an increase in metabolism overcoming the decrease due to fat gain. I am not sure if there is a safe drug that would decrease metabolism (anti tyroid medication doesn't seem that safe) but if you have time for it you could try redoing the experiment while being in bed all day with blankets/clothes on the hot side (not enough to sweat but enough to reduce the heat loss due to the increased core temperature).
I’m a LMHR, went carnivore/low carb 2 years ago. Before that for 3 years my RHR averaged 55 BPM, since starting low carb it’s been averaging 61. I used to struggle with POTS type symptoms but I haven’t since eating 90% meat diet with zero to a few low carb days a week. I feel better and lost weight but wonder why low carb made my RHR go up. Just staying curious!
Highly interesting video as usual. Question: You mentioned that your insulin levels went up due to the high calorie intake in this experiment, and that's an explanation for the increased LDL levels. But in your OREO-test, your insulin levels would most likely have increasedeven more, but with a drop of LDL. Isn't that contradicting?
"You mentioned that your insulin levels went up due to the high calorie intake in this experiment, and that's an explanation for the increased LDL levels." -- where did I say this was causal? As mentioned, there are "push-pull" factors and fat cell growth/insulin appeared to "lose" the day.
Cashew? You mean macadamia? Probably very little. Sat vs Unsat doesn't appear to impact my LDL-C much w/ my highest LDL-C of all time being when intake was 1:5.67 sat:unsat ratio
I'm finding doctors less and less productive for our health. Case in point is my workmate took his wife to the doctor for a regular blood test results, the doctor reported her total cholesterol as 3.5 and that because it had gone up from the last test she should start using 'medication' to 'control' her 'bad' cholesterol. Yes a TOTAL of 3.5.
My question is: did the size of your waste dumps dramatically increase? Is it possible that the bulk of what you were eating was simply expelled because the natural function of your body couldn’t fully process it?
gah, you and Brad Marshal need to have a sitdown, this is right up his ally. I'd love to see a score of your total SFA MUFA PUFA. the Keto brick looks to be half SFA, so that should be raising your metabolism. try again with half mufa half pufa? or have dave go through his records to see what he was eating balance wise when he did the protocal. you said you were satiated and stuffing yourself? How hard was it to eat this way? EDIT: wow I'm a dumb dumb, 225g SFA, 585 TF, that's 38% SFA not that high. But typical for an American.
I think over eating by anyone is not a good idea. I am a hard gainer like yourself to give some context. Maybe what is going on for hard gainers is the body is trying to plow through all of the nutrients and fuel instead of immediately storing the excess. For someone who gains easily, maybe the body is better at storing the excess promptly , thus gaining more mass. Either scenario will probably have bad outcomes if the intake remains in excess for extended periods of time. We often only think of weight gain when we eat too much, more thought needs to be about is damage being done.
Have you ever tested postprandial triglycerides (4hr after a meal)? It’s supposed to be less than 220mg/dL and a better risk predictor than fasting triglycerides.
Why on earth with such LDL you still continue Saturated fats? We had also a carnivore keto devoted for years with 300-400 LDL, with 5 autoimmune diseases. When he cut out saturated fats and increased carbs guess what happened. Yep, LDL as you said with fiber, decreased with the hundreds. C'mon guys we need to rationalize after so many years doing Keto - what REALLY works
I think you missed the point of the video. It’s not a medical recommendation. It’s a metabolic demonstration. I was very clear about this in the video and caveat as such everywhere.
Is the fat absorption in the gut not limited by bile production, so while you may have been eating huge quantities of fat, it is possible you were not absorbing it all. You would need to measure fat in your poop to factor this in? Just a thought.
Disclaimer, my not fully understanding the physiology, but I have 2 questions. First one is simple. Was the increase in NEAT due to the thermogenic effect of food? And second, could it be that you appear to be so very lean, that there wasn't enough fat mass to expand? Perhaps comparing to others who have done this (Sioban), Calories per body weight or per kg of fat mass. Might there be an inflection point of overfeeding beyond which LDL would increase rather than decrease? Again, indexed to, say, total body weight or fat mass? Rather than just an increase in energy expenditure.
How does that massive protein intake compare with your baseline? Was it just the case that you had ‘the meat sweats’ from all the protein, that others won’t have done because they managed it with a higher fat/lower protein diet? If you could work out what makes you a hard gainer of fat/weight then there’s a gazillion of us out here that would love to know the secret!
Thanks Nick, always something new to challenge our thinking! I have a question. Another person says, 'they lied to us about the 'dangers' of saturated fat'. I'm aware there was a study in 2018 (Mozaffarian) stating Sat fats have health benefits - which was contrary his 2011 study; - saturated fats are harmful. The NZ Heart Foundation advice is based on the 2011 study! Are there other studies by M or others, that confirm saturated fats are not harmful? Thanks for all you do.
A sudden increase in that much fat and some fiber would cause diarrhea or at least looser stools, and a corresponding increase in heart rate as part of those gut motility changes. So....wondering what temporary gut changes occurred during one week test?
CICO. It is indeed an oversimplification when it comes to the most practical aspect of it, which is how to make use of that. Tracking calories is hard and imprecise, there are hormonal issues that will send hunger signals, cravings for calorie dense foods... but if we isolate each factor, I think we can understand it a bit better. In a lab setting, where we can control exactly how much food you get, you can be 100% guaranteed to lose weight in a rather predictable rate (after some parameters are dialed in). You will get the exact amount of food you need to be in a slight deficit,so you will lose weight (thermodynamics). Your body will not store fat out of thin air, this would be nonsense You can now add hormonal issues: some hormones will make you increase water retention, others will make you FEEL hungry, others will make you crave a triple cheesburger with fries and salsa. All these are bumps on the way to calorie deficit, and it is a psychological struggle to not give in. Some hormones will make you also have the tendency to use less energy by deviating energy expense from somewhere else. The type of food you eat also makes a difference: eating food without protein and fiber will make you hungry faster, although you don't need that amount of energy. You could get the 2000 calories out of milkshakes every day, but you'd be extremely hungry anyway. High fiber and high protein foods will keep you satiated for longer, and help in reducing the calorie intake. Salty foods will increase the water retention tendency too. The energy absorption from foods is also different from person to person: some people can swallow 1000kcal in a burger with fries, and only absorb 400kcal, while another person may absorb 700kcal from the same burger. This makes it difficult for some people to understand why they are not losing weight when they actually "do exactly the same" as their counterparts. Now, does CICO still hold? Yes. The complex part is to reach CI
Did do you know food is suns barcode and deuterium storage? I am a LMHR ten years down a keto carnivore n=1 rabbit hole gone bioquantum thus shifting from biochemistry forward on.
I tried this also before a blood test and disappointed, my Gp having heart attack with my ldl and trigs going up, total 14.5. only adding carbs drops mine to 8 with trigs still,
I'm curious, if you monitored sleep scores during this experiment; and if you did, did the calorie increase and increased RHR negatively affect your sleep. I find that high calorie days increase my RHR at the end of the day. That increase seems to crash my sleep scores.
Don't actually own a sleep tracker... feel like it would screw with my sleep. I'm the type to get in my own head about it. That said, my sleep hours did decrease... just felt "buzzed"
Macadamianuts are plants. Plants have a totally different signaling than animal fats and proteins. So go back and do it again eating only animal fats and protein. Totally different result.
What do you predict will be the results? Do you predict that I will gain weight with animal fats, where I didn't with plants? Do you predict that I will have a drop in LDL with butter, where it went up with more macadamia? Please specify your hypotheses.
I had 6 eggs, 2 oz of cheddar cheese and 1 pound of pork for breakfast. I had 2 pounds of beef for lunch and I am going to have 3 pounds of Heart attack chicken and 1 pound of Heart Attack shrimp for dinner. I eat like this almost ever day. How many 'calories" is that? I am 6'6" tall 190 pounds and my weight never increases.
Most of the fat you consumed was plant based (cocoa butter/coconut oil/olive oil) not animal fat, I wonder how different the results would be if you were only eating animal fat?
@@nicknorwitzPhD I don't predict anything. I'm merely pointing out that the type of fat may make a difference. We've seen so many studies that have shown deleterious affects from eating fat, until you look at the type of fat, and it was never natural animal fats. As the result you achieved was not what you expected, it would be worth repeating the experiment with a different type of fat. Change one variable at a time to determine is it the fat, the mechanism or something about your personal physiology? Thanks for all you're doing, it's fascinating.
I would not "recommend" it. This is a metabolic demonstration and LMHR are a particular context. Please go see my video on ApoB and All Cause Mortality.
I would be interested to know what your apoB was before and after. I am a LMHR who has given up trying to gain weight. I can eat a million calories a day and I never gain weight. This explains a lot about individual results.My CAC is scheduled soon I am curious about the results of this test also. Thanks for your great work.
From a laymans perspective Triglycerides and blood glucose are a lot more telling about metabolism than any part of the cholesterol. I think cholesterol in terms of a indication of health is a fools errand. Of course cholesterol is a constituent of plaque its the repair mechanism habitually trying to repair damage that turns into buildup.
Crazy with a purpose. You should put that on you Dr lab coat
HA! Giving me thoughts...
@@nicknorwitzPhD
Make it merch! 🧬
Agreed!! 👌🏼
not too different from Marie Currie or any other scientist
I'm Irish-stubborn, keep my own counsel, don't tell me what I can't do...if only doggedness were monetized 😂 "They call you crazy till you prove them wrong, then they just call you lucky."
Nick, all these experiments that you are documenting and putting out to others is extremely beneficial to everyone. Instead of starving obese people for 14 or 30 days and making ridiculous conclusions, the idea of studying people who Don’t gain weight no matter what they do is going to open up the world of knowledge. It is quite amazing all the things you are willing to do and eat. Thank you.
You’re not the first to say that… but thank you 🙏🏻
So what drives NEAT in “hard gainers “ like yourself? Are there other factors involved with hard gainers?
All this indicates is that variability between people and the fact that these LDL metrics change so quickly depending on what you eat, there is no way this metric can be used to assess anything. It's just a convenient measurement because it can be done so easily, but to base a whole treatment plan on something so variable makes no sense at all. I don't understand how the statin and decreasing cholesterol theory is still pertinent.
"LDL metrics change so quickly depending on what you eat" -- this is revolutionary to some... DYNAMIC
I've used this protocol to reduce my LDL to pass a military medical twice now, it works in just two days of 5,000 calories a day of fats, a third and fourth day reduces it a bit more each day but for me, most of the LDL reduction happened in the first 48 hours. I did have a blood test after two days, then the third and forth day to see the change.
Warning! Eating that many calories of pure cream and cheese is not pleasant, OMG, stuffed. Try drinking 1000 ml of heavy cream in one shot, not so fun. Again, my LDL went DOWN, not up, but most important for what I needed was the LDL to HDL ratios went back to the normal range which is what I needed to pass the test, otherwise I was going to have to due a nuclear stress test with heart echocardiogram which I wanted to avoid due to my age, fearing I'd fail it due to being too out of shape. What I did was a CHEAT, but most doctors are clueless this can be done.
Shawn baker did something like this as well…cholesterol is a dynamic measurement, putting people on drugs for a dynamic measurement is complete insanity
@@nicknorwitzPhD talking about dynamic measurements so is your fast glucose this is just a waste of time also.
I’m currently using a cgm and it changes depending on exercise, time of the day or carb eating which have only eaten to check things out. My glucose doesn’t change when I eat my normal meal of meat. Which means my glucose level is always a fasting reading except when carbs are introduced. Btw without carbs tit varies from 120-60
It's pertinent because it's profitable that's it.
This right here is epic!! I’m still new to keto/ketovore community. Great work!
Glad you enjoyed. Hopefully made you think... I do enjoy n = 1 and this, interpreted appropriately, they can be immensely valuable.
I tried the Feldman protocol and my LDL went up and my TG went down. I am not lean mass, I am obese. The Feldman protocol obviously does not work for everybody. I could not speculate as to the reasons why. I did not want to tell my GP what I had done and had to argue about refusing statins.
Like you, I'm obese, so I'm saying this as someone with similar experience, not in a negative way. We are obese because we are metabolically unhealthy with chronically high insulin and damaged mitochondria. It's impossible to lose weight until our insulin is low. Our fat cells are already jam packed full. The Feldman protocol is clearly for someone who is metabolically healthy.
Oh, and just wanted to give a tool for talking to your doctor about what is more important, statins or something else (like diet). Here's a link to a video by Dr Ken Berry, "How to NOT DIE from a Heart Attack"
ua-cam.com/video/BIg8A_i4hhI/v-deo.html
It's not about LDL cholesterol lowers statins hit the market in 1984 and Heart Disease continues to rise ,, ask for Lipid Partical testing
You shouldn’t be worrying about cholesterol, you should be worrying about obesity. Maybe try Ozempic?
@@Starfish2145 Ozempic?? Uh, no! It will paralyze your stomach and cause long term problems. Just go ultra low carb or carnivore.
I love your nuanced approach. Your honest understanding of what missing data means to the health community, and your recommendations as few and far between as those recommendations are.
Lovely comment. Very much appreciated!
Hi Nick, this comment is unrelated to the current video but I was wondering if you’d be willing to make a compilation video of sorts on the keto foods/meals you eat in a week. I can’t speak for anyone else but I personally would find that very helpful/interesting. Thank you for taking the time to read this comment.
See my recent Newsletter, section on Transparency, and you'll gather why I tend not to do "what I eat" videos...
I love, absolutely love your approach to explain and modify your existing hypothesis to accommodate this last experiment instead of writing it off as an outlier like has been done by controversial figures in nutrition research.
It really seems like you, Feldman, and colleagues are developing are great working theory of human metabolism that's been missing
I have no idea what to think or believe anymore. I’ve eaten meat my entire life and avoided vegetables because they taste like shit. Last few years I’ve been avoiding carbs. I fast a lot because I’m never hungry and not by a conscious decision to starve myself. I seem healthy enough but I really have no idea!
Get a calcium scoring scan from your doctor. If you get a zero score, you're golden, and carry on what you're doing.
@@Ge1Ri4 And if it’s not? Eat a bunch of toxic veggies and become mental again? No thanks.
@@Ge1Ri4,
Except that the scan for CAC only shows hard (calcified) plaques. Soft plaques not detected by it are less stable and more prone to break loose and cause a clot/blockage. See Dr. Ford Brewer's videos comparing different methods (CIMT, stress test, NIVL Duplex Scan, CAC score) of assessing risks for cardiovascular disease.
Stop eating omega 6
That is crazy. You are probably nutritionally deficient. Why do you hate vegetables? Were your parents terrible cooks?
At 67, my health and longevity *IS* a crap shoot.
They lied to us about the 'dangers' of saturated fat;
The disregard for carbohydrates' effect on insulin levels affected my ability to lose weight;
The poisoning of my metabolism with industrially processed seed oils which have no place in the human diet;
And the messaging by the federal government nutritional guidelines to avoid meat (in itself a religious belief, which makes it un-constitutional IMHO);
means that I had to get guidance from UA-cam.
I believe that this community saved my life.
where would you put your money?
I'm 69, and I would say ditto, ditto ditto!
Well said encapsulation of the shared frustrating experience of all of humanity over the last 100 yeez.
Well... I put my money into medical school atm... $$$!
@@nicknorwitzPhD You have good role models to follow, and You'll do good for all of us! Thanks for the effort.
I'm 76 and I wholeheartedly agree!
😮 Fascinating!
😊Love your integrity!
Keep up the great work.
Thanks... WILL DO!
Lordy Nick, I would puke eating that. 🤣😂 you crazy!
Definitely a "don't do this at home kids"
Got slightly nauseated listening to what he ate.
Some variables that might not be accounted for in this experiment. Eating a certain number of calories assumes those calories are all going into the body, there are variables that can change this even in the same person. Going to guess that your GI wasn't too happy and let you know. Also, that change in fiber would impact the microbiome in your gut which would be another variable that would make a difference, guessing trying to get the calories but limiting that fiber increase would change things, especially considering your GI history. You could also have a microbiome vastly different from your "average" person given past history, I think you mentioned having Inflammatory Bowel Disease, CD I think, damage to the gut from that would change how or what gets absorbed along with the potential of having gut bacteria that interacts with food much differently from others. I don't know the types of fats that you ate, but different types of fat absorb more or less depending on their type, the fiber can also change how much gets absorbed. Without being used to eat that many calories or those type of calories I'm not sure what impact that would have, the microbiome and the cells of the gut can change depending on what you eat and likely would take longer to absorb more of what you eat. Finally, there does seem to be impact of what food goes in based upon gut/brain interactions, as you likely have pointed out, we are not a test tube and the biology of our body is much more complex than most realize. Also recommend listening to the recent Huberman podcast where he talks with someone about the Gut/Brain interactions, that added some context to gut things that I hadn't thought about and would likely help you with future experiments involving food.
You could summarize your wall of text with:
Calories are a horrible way of measuring someones food intake.
@@snaxximan5737 Uh, no, it's not just calories, helps to read before you comment. LOL
This is a great response to consider. We are learning more and more about the micro biome and how much it really affects how we respond to food. So it really isn’t so much the calories. It’s what type of food, the makeup of the food, nutrient density and how gut bacteria interact with it.
We all know someone who can eat anything and not gain a single lb. Yet some people swear they gain a pound just walking past the bakery.
You are missing the effect of the FADH2:NADH ratio - you might want to read up on the proton series at hyperlipid. Fat is not one thing - but a family of things - each with different effects. We did not evolve to eat high dosages of plant oils. Anyway - the LDL theory of CVD is pretty much dis proven - a better way to look at CVD is as a thrombotic disease - A good place to start is with Kendricks' books. Insulin levels are way more predictive - chronically high insulin as is found in people suffering from T2D. Insulin is not just about blood glucose levels - it shuts down autophagy - reducing the ability to re-absorb blood clots that lead to narrowed arteries.
Bro, a rebranding and top pay video editor and it's 10/10 content with the deserved following and according pay that comes with it
I'm already lost the plot but here are some possibly related ideas:
- Eating that much fat might not get absorbed (bile secretion works as a safety valve), and the increased protein would lead to effectively higher protein ratio which might turn into glucose.
- I heard someone mention that cholesterols and plant sterols would affect LDL differently so if you changed your fat sources, things could change. Also, in case of unabsorbed fat, some types of fat could absorb with different priority.
thanks for this!!! I love your open mind and your integrity. I also did the Feldman protocol, just to see what would happen- before my LDL was 310, afterwards my LDL jumped to 524! It shocked me. My triglycerides doubled (still under 100- my tris are usually around 43), and my HDL went from 81 to 89. 1 lb weight gain. Also my heart rate jumped from 57 to 73 and my blood pressure went from 90/54 to 116/72. Overfeeding is REALLY not my friend. I started adding in 40 grams of carbs a day, divided between two meals and my LDL dropped to 180, my tri's back down to 45 and my HDL went back to 81. Interesting sh*t.
Interesting. Are you "chronically lean" too?
What's interesting the more veganism is forced upon us the more they move these markers to suit themselves.
I m about to add carbs to my diet to "normalize" my lipids numbers. Question: did u bring the fat down o did u maintain it at the same level? thx
You share the facts/results of your experiment with everybody, and then start with your thoughts and explanation 👍. A lot of people don’t do it like that…
Thanks!
Superb, interesting science combined with an excellent presentation. Good on Sir!
Glad you liked it!
Thank you,Nick! I stand with you in your declaration statement! So interesting, why some people don’t gain weight!
Glad you enjoyed this one :)
Thanks for the video! My personal experiment didn’t go so well: it appeared that carnivore plus TRT gives you a heart attack. I’ve been preaching low-carb diets for about 18 years. Last five years I’m on carnivore. And also was abusing PED’s for about 10 years. Now I have my coronary arteries plaqued. I am about to do a surgery. Unfortunately we do not have much data on that the price is too high guys
10:30... how did I miss this cool explanation of where HDL fits into the energy model before?
Sounds like you're learning... and loving it?
Hormones are a factor regarding lipid energy processing, especially estrogen level that fluctuates in women and also declines significantly with age.
can you do a video on guidelines and advice for people who want to fix metabolic syndrome and/or diabetes type 2? which is a lot of ppl today
so much passion I love your vids helps me stay keto, while almost everybody around me says Im crazy and have dead wish, and one more beautiful thing about keto after a heavy workout next day my muscles are not sore as they used to be when I was thinking that carb are the MAIN fuel for energy, I said sore, what I meant was actually next day I feel stronger and it lasts longer
Answering virtually every comment, I have to admire the commitment. And having the capacity to do this in the context of keeping research and med school responsibilities on track. When I was in med school after prepping and eating some real food, keeping myself washed, dressed and fit, the only time left in each day was for about 4 hrs of sleep. I reassured myself at the time it would only be for a short while. It turned out that was the baseline for the next 40 years.
Ya… I’m trying to avoid that possibility… I’ve seen what toll it takes 😳
@@nicknorwitzPhD Perhaps I was whining. Rather, I would see it as a near optimal path for me. Some more sleep would give me a few less grey hairs and slightly better metabolic health. But the memories are irreplaceable. I was never able to attend a game or graduation but despite that my 4 children are all in the health care space. Like me they thought I was doing important work and having fun.
Don't slow down, I'm just impressed. In 40 years I won't be around to compare notes to see who saved more lives or had more fun.
Your passion for science and learning is inspiring! I am hoping that I can participate in similar academic discourse and discovery when I start medical school!
Love it Jared! When do you start? Where?
@@nicknorwitzPhD Not confirmed acceptance yet. Taking my MCAT in a few weeks 🤞 . Hoping to attend University of MN. This would be a second career for me!
@@jarednordstrom6041 Lovely! Best of luck Jared!
He doesn't have a passion for science. He has a passion for data that fits his narrative. There is a difference.
I am like you nick, same frame and build. Always ate close to keto for the last 10 years unintentionally. Now about to move to full keto... Cheers for the breakdown. Your a very clever boy.
You’re very welcome ☺️
@@nicknorwitzPhD have you posted anywhere the breakdown of what you eat daily? Not trying to copy. Have my own stuff l will always eat. Specially makeral and sardines. Always looking for ideas
My dad used to say, " nick, don't be afraid to prove yourself wrong". Then I would say, " who's nick"?
Do you have an answer to that question now? ;)
Do you think the increased metabolic rate would be visible in the thyroid hormones?
I am fascinated by your experiments and your results!
Let's go!
I've done this as well before prior to certain labs just to test it out. Definitely worked for my cholesterol lowering. Doctor didn't care much, though.
I will say whenever I ate so much my temperature will _always_ go up by A LOT. Like I'll be waking up at night in a pool of sweat and so on. My heart rate can as well go from 45-50 resting to a whopping 100 resting heart rate depending on just how much I've eaten the previous day. I don't gain much weight either as my weight will usually drop to below previously measured within a week or two tops, no matter how much I tried to overfeed myself. It's quite interesting.
I've done a 10MCal a day for a week experiment before as well, though with processed foods. It didn't end well as I literally couldn't walk by the end, it was wild, but it taught me what ultra porcessed foods do to your body really well. Meanwhile overeating (though less kcal) on a keto-diet had none of thse bad symptoms.
I find these n=1 experiments really interesting. Keep going!
I switched from Plant based high carb diet to omnivore low carb recently, and have started seeing LMHR signs in blood tests (I've been lean all my life, and last 3 years at at my 15 year lowest weight).
What does your diet look like specifically in terms of fiber and fatty acid ratio. What is your BMI?
@@nicknorwitzPhD My fiber intake is >20g a day (20-30 I'd say). Fat around 65-70% of calories. BMI = 18,4. It used to be 20,5 before my 3y plant based period 😅 Trying to do more strength exercise and eat what my body asks for without forcing (I'm tired of forcing to gain weight).
My plan is to stay low carb, although I do exceptions, and to alternate with some keto periods. I just targeted being in ketosis once and I entered ketosis (I measured), without big effort (staying below 50g carbs).
My evolution in 9 months since I changed from Plant based (high carbs low-medium fat) to omnivore (decreasing carbs and increasing fat intake over this period, but still moderate-low carbs when I did my test 3m ago): LDL from 79 to 210; Trigl from 124 to 76; HDL from 36 to 65. I'll get a blood test done soon, will see how it goes now that I've been low carb (with exceptions). Thank you!!
@@nicknorwitzPhD Thanks for your answer.
I'd say my fiber intake is >20g (20-30), and 65-70% fat. Why you ask especially for this ratio?
My BMI is 18,4 😅. It used to be 20,4 before WFPB diet with normal activity.
Now I eat: Vegetables or salad with every meal (2 or 3) (prioritizing low glycemic index), some nuts/seeds. Meat, fish, eggs, some goat/sheep cheese/yogurt. Raw Coconut & Olive Extra virgin oils, avocados.
I don't eat (only occasionally): sugars, flours, starches (only resistant ones), refined oils.
Evolution in 9 months since I progressivly changed from Whole Foods Plant Based (high carbs, low fat) to 3 months ago (omnivore low/mid carb) (when I got lab test). During that time I :
LDL from 79 to 211
HDL from 36 to 65
Trigl from 124 to 76
My plan is to continue low carb with Keto phases, to reassess shortly as I'll get some blood tests done soon.
Thank you! Best regards.
@@JssRider Interesting. Consistent w/ present data for sure.
It's been a while since I looked at it, but I thought the Feldman Protocol was to add carbs to lower cholesterol before a test.
It might be interesting to see liver enzymes changes before and after too. The few comments here also couldn't replicate the Feldman protocol, so what happens when there are other responses? Conventional wisdom would suggest the high fats would also encourage NAFLD, something that most people don't test for UA-cam videos - probably because there isn't a pinprick way to do it, I guess.
Disclaimer: I'm currently the "whole foods plant based" other than milk, the occasional detours to fish and poultry/eggs... basically, I like the whole foods plant based logic for a sanity check on my weight, but am not a fanatic. Keto doesn't work for me. I was healthy all my life and going keto in solidarity with a diabetic ex wrecked my liver enzymes (though I did lose weight fast) and after quitting, my blood glucose started showing occasionally prediabetic and I'm still trying to find my way back to good old boring tests with everything reading tediously "normal". So I'm rather wary about keto's effects on the liver and it would be interesting to know that this is safe.
(BTW, in case anybody is wondering why I am getting checked regularly if I was always healthy... mainly curiosity, but also to encourage my aged mother to agree to the tests as "normal" without panicking that I think she has some serious disease - she doesn't, apart from schizophrenia and an anxiety disorder. So we both just get extensive tests done twice a year and that is it - our home culture. No cause for concern. We're just using tech for information because it exists.)
A great video. I gained insight into our interior workings.
Glad you found it interesting and valuable
I dig that you use the word data in the proper plural context
Drives me nuts when someone says “the data is”
IKR!!! Sometimes I slip intentionally to see if Dave Feldman catches me out and if I have taught him properly ... hasn't happened yet... sadly. One day, and on that day I'll be like, "You've done well, grasshoppers"
lol
A lot of food for thought here, great vid.
As someone who's also chronically lean and doing similar experiments, let me add some:
I guess your diet wasn't ketogenic anymore due to the insane amount of protein and total calories. When I go overboard like that, sometimes it knocks me out of ketosis for more than 24 hours. Also my morning glucose is way higher than I'd like and it's difficult to get to comfortable levels during the day. The level of protein is specially important here.
It seems your diet was very Omega 6 heavy (relatively speaking), I would definitely ditch nut butters next time (a teaspoon per meal max). Macadamia is not the worst offender but it adds up.
Coconut milk is a great source of calories for this kind of thing.
Thanks for sharing this experiment 👍
I went from 80 gm carbs daily to 20. My LDL went from 55 to 110 to 182.
I’ve seen you. You’re pretty lean. Not surprised.
I'm a lay person so forgive my ignorance. Am I correct in understanding that thr reason the Feldman protocol did not work for Nick was because he raised his energy expenditure ie he was doing more exercise while he was on it than he normally does?
My body “auto-compensated” by increasing my involuntary energy expenditure through increased body temperature, heart rate, and NEAT
I do enjoy your experiments. Its sort of like - going where no man's gone before. :))
Glad you enjoy it!
LMHR here, trieda similar experiment years ago to gain weight, 5000 calories a day for a month, no weight gain, eating tuna yogurt and cottage cheese.
Hey Nick, with most of the calories in the form of fat and only 40 grams of carbs. Would most of the fat go through the GI track into the toilet. If this happens, we can assume that the stool will be loose and float. With a low carb intake, your insulin level would also be low, therefore inhibiting fat storage. Great content as always, just wanted to add some input.
My RHR is usually in the 50's, but when I eat a lot of chocolate, it will shoot up to mid 80's, and that's with me never leaving my chair.
Brad Marshall might be interested in these results. Given the high amounts of MUFAs, his 'torpor' theory suggests your metabolism would have slowed (unless, despite what looks like a high MUFA intake, you really had a predominately saturated fat intake). Your result suggests an 'emergence' response, where metabolism speeds up and fat gain is depressed in favor of energy production for spring and summer high activity.
I tried to look at the maccros, that ketobrick has 50g SFA so he may not be that high MUFA. But also to Brads theory, the Stored mufa is a problem, in LMHR they are so thin, there isn't much stored anything.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. It would have been interesting to see subcutaneous vs visceral fat ratio diff before and after . To do justice to that, you would have had to get a DEXXA scan. Personally, my priority is on keeping my visceral fat at optimal levels. Subcutaneous fat may look ugly as you prolly already know, it is not as cardiometabolically lethal. Anecdotally speaking only with all other things being equal , I know that when I dramatically overconsume calories even for a week with all other things be equal(no sleep deprivation, no change in cardio or resistance training, etc.,) or more, the first place any minimal bf% goes is viscreally as per pre and post Dexxa scan. In the interests of fairness and respectfully, I have not had any pre and post bloodwork done doing that to see how it messes with my LDL. That would be interesting to do in the future to directly track how any visceral bf% increase no matter how minimal effects that I presume there would likely be a significant jump in LDL and if nothing else Triglycerides. Interestingly and on a somewhat related issue, I found absolutely no increase or decrease in my RHR Thanks again, I love that you think outside the box,,and are not afraid of backlash. Keep up the great work. I love all your content
Yes, LDL rises with fat & protein intake & reduces as you have proved on a carbs- sugar diet.
High LDLs should be the norm, but the average Joe or Jill with their largely carb diet ( sugar diet) reduces LDL to what many think is a normal range.
I would be interested to see what a huge calorie surplus in a ketogenic context would do on a hypertrophy training routine.
As the proud owner of the genetic FH defect, is there anyone on UA-cam or any publications that you trust that talks about the disease in a detail that doesn't get too into the weeds? Thank you.
The best for the end, is important to make people understand that this is your personal experiment
Of course it is!
Would have thought insulin would have been a critical measurement ?
Did others that did the Feldman protocol have more sugars, fake or otherwise ?
I think you would have gained a ton more fat and water weight by eating sugary junk
He has access to high quality food, he can't eat junk food because he has no appetite for it
yes but that wouldn't have tested the Feldman protocol
Even those science stuff are junk, it's all about having access to nutritious food. We know everything but nothing and we're listening to cult leaders instead having faith în God
Probs... but I didn't... Macadamia butter > Candy Bars and Cookies in my books!
I was just thinking the same. Would all of these health stats be effected the same way with more evil calories introduced? Hmmm...for someone who is challenged to gain weigh or LMHR types, what about if those calories were coming from "keto junk food" , doughnuts, or even Doritos, etc. After all, a calorie is a calorie is a calorie? I think most would agree, not so. Just a week long experiment maybe as done last time. I would never suggest anyone do this for a sustained longer period of time though. Yikes!
Several times I’ve noticed that my resting heart rate tends to increase materially after I eat a dinner of pork belly. I thought it was my digestive system working harder, but perhaps it was my metabolism deciding to quickly spend the luxury of having just ingested so much energy.
So in a normal person this has the opposite effect? Does it effect A1C as well?
I'd be curious how this experiment would go with 0 carbohydrates--there is no such thing as an "essential carbohydrate" after all so it shouldn't be dangerous. But the question would be, how would your fat cells react in such a low insulin environment. Only basal or cephalic insulin. Could they uptake and retain any fat at all?
Other macros can stimulate insulin. And I was ketogenic through this experiment. But it’s next to impossible for me to consume >6000 Cal/day for a week without any carbs at all
@9:57 lipid energy model, good summary again to get the high HDL low triglycerides & high LDL thnx
Did you monitor your salt/sodium intake? I read that increased salt can elevate osmolality, which can induce indigenous fructose production. This process helps achieve the transient insulin resistance required to store fat, right?
I hope to see an experiment on the effects of excessive salt during a keto diet.
Super interesting! Thanks for being our guinea pig.
Any time!
Hey, this question may sound strange but, did you notice any changes in stool consistency, smell, etc. during this experiment?
Was there any change in your triglycerides and HDL ?
Would be interesting to know, what the trend is (according to your n=1) of the expected response......As per lipid energy model, assuming your LDL went up because of your increased energy expenditure, and as you have been a lean mass hyperresponder, for enough time to reach homeostasis, a mild increase in HDL and mild decrease in triglycerides as well
It would be very interesting if you could test the hypothesis that the increased LDL was driven by an increase in metabolism overcoming the decrease due to fat gain. I am not sure if there is a safe drug that would decrease metabolism (anti tyroid medication doesn't seem that safe) but if you have time for it you could try redoing the experiment while being in bed all day with blankets/clothes on the hot side (not enough to sweat but enough to reduce the heat loss due to the increased core temperature).
What is a keto brick?
www.ketobrick.com
I’m a LMHR, went carnivore/low carb 2 years ago. Before that for 3 years my RHR averaged 55 BPM, since starting low carb it’s been averaging 61. I used to struggle with POTS type symptoms but I haven’t since eating 90% meat diet with zero to a few low carb days a week. I feel better and lost weight but wonder why low carb made my RHR go up. Just staying curious!
Highly interesting video as usual.
Question:
You mentioned that your insulin levels went up due to the high calorie intake in this experiment, and that's an explanation for the increased LDL levels.
But in your OREO-test, your insulin levels would most likely have increasedeven more, but with a drop of LDL.
Isn't that contradicting?
"You mentioned that your insulin levels went up due to the high calorie intake in this experiment, and that's an explanation for the increased LDL levels." -- where did I say this was causal? As mentioned, there are "push-pull" factors and fat cell growth/insulin appeared to "lose" the day.
How much did the unsaturated fat of cashew and olive oil affect the outcome?
Cashew? You mean macadamia? Probably very little. Sat vs Unsat doesn't appear to impact my LDL-C much w/ my highest LDL-C of all time being when intake was 1:5.67 sat:unsat ratio
Thank you for sharing your experiment. How you did you feel, in terms of sleep, alertness, energy levels and digestion?
Jittery. Less sleep. Very alert. High energy. Digestion "so-so" but certainly not as bad as the Oreo experiment
@nicknorwitzPhD That is exactly how one feels when eating a big meal too close to bedtime. Makes sense.
I'm finding doctors less and less productive for our health. Case in point is my workmate took his wife to the doctor for a regular blood test results, the doctor reported her total cholesterol as 3.5 and that because it had gone up from the last test she should start using 'medication' to 'control' her 'bad' cholesterol. Yes a TOTAL of 3.5.
My question is: did the size of your waste dumps dramatically increase? Is it possible that the bulk of what you were eating was simply expelled because the natural function of your body couldn’t fully process it?
gah, you and Brad Marshal need to have a sitdown, this is right up his ally.
I'd love to see a score of your total SFA MUFA PUFA. the Keto brick looks to be half SFA, so that should be raising your metabolism. try again with half mufa half pufa? or have dave go through his records to see what he was eating balance wise when he did the protocal.
you said you were satiated and stuffing yourself? How hard was it to eat this way?
EDIT: wow I'm a dumb dumb, 225g SFA, 585 TF, that's 38% SFA not that high. But typical for an American.
I think over eating by anyone is not a good idea. I am a hard gainer like yourself to give some context. Maybe what is going on for hard gainers is the body is trying to plow through all of the nutrients and fuel instead of immediately storing the excess. For someone who gains easily, maybe the body is better at storing the excess promptly , thus gaining more mass. Either scenario will probably have bad outcomes if the intake remains in excess for extended periods of time. We often only think of weight gain when we eat too much, more thought needs to be about is damage being done.
Have you ever tested postprandial triglycerides (4hr after a meal)? It’s supposed to be less than 220mg/dL and a better risk predictor than fasting triglycerides.
Yes.
How was the bowel movements eating so much fat?
Is it possible that a portion of the fat ingested was not absorbed and excreted?
Why on earth with such LDL you still continue Saturated fats? We had also a carnivore keto devoted for years with 300-400 LDL, with 5 autoimmune diseases. When he cut out saturated fats and increased carbs guess what happened. Yep, LDL as you said with fiber, decreased with the hundreds. C'mon guys we need to rationalize after so many years doing Keto - what REALLY works
I think you missed the point of the video. It’s not a medical recommendation. It’s a metabolic demonstration. I was very clear about this in the video and caveat as such everywhere.
Is there any evidence that dramatic overeating causes some portion of the food to just pass through, as in not be metabolized into energy?
Is the fat absorption in the gut not limited by bile production, so while you may have been eating huge quantities of fat, it is possible you were not absorbing it all. You would need to measure fat in your poop to factor this in? Just a thought.
Disclaimer, my not fully understanding the physiology, but I have 2 questions. First one is simple. Was the increase in NEAT due to the thermogenic effect of food? And second, could it be that you appear to be so very lean, that there wasn't enough fat mass to expand? Perhaps comparing to others who have done this (Sioban), Calories per body weight or per kg of fat mass. Might there be an inflection point of overfeeding beyond which LDL would increase rather than decrease? Again, indexed to, say, total body weight or fat mass? Rather than just an increase in energy expenditure.
How does that massive protein intake compare with your baseline? Was it just the case that you had ‘the meat sweats’ from all the protein, that others won’t have done because they managed it with a higher fat/lower protein diet? If you could work out what makes you a hard gainer of fat/weight then there’s a gazillion of us out here that would love to know the secret!
BUT,was the hypertrophy of fat cells subq or visceral?????
Thanks Nick, always something new to challenge our thinking! I have a question. Another person says, 'they lied to us about the 'dangers' of saturated fat'. I'm aware there was a study in 2018 (Mozaffarian) stating Sat fats have health benefits - which was contrary his 2011 study; - saturated fats are harmful. The NZ Heart Foundation advice is based on the 2011 study! Are there other studies by M or others, that confirm saturated fats are not harmful? Thanks for all you do.
www.jacc.org/doi/abs/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077
@@nicknorwitzPhD Awesome, thanks so much
Id love to test the lipid panel of 'Beard meets food' that guy is a singularity of food consumption.
Dare I google...
Cal In Cal Out ain't what it's all about.
*Carbs are akin to putting NoS in the tank to hit the corner store
This is so interesting.
Thanks… thought so!
I think you also have to consider WHAT you eat to compare results with other people. Maybe the 10 eggs push cholesterol.
I couldn't find your podcast with Simon Hill. Is it still not released?
Was was - sadly - delayed. But Simon said it will release 6/24/24
A sudden increase in that much fat and some fiber would cause diarrhea or at least looser stools, and a corresponding increase in heart rate as part of those gut motility changes. So....wondering what temporary gut changes occurred during one week test?
As always acute does not equal chronic w/r/t dietary change... see prior butter drop video ;)
What is your normal food intake? Or how many calories a day do you regularly eat before this experiment?
Varies. Usually I don't count but when I started the expt it was south of 3000.
Digesting is hard work.
CICO. It is indeed an oversimplification when it comes to the most practical aspect of it, which is how to make use of that. Tracking calories is hard and imprecise, there are hormonal issues that will send hunger signals, cravings for calorie dense foods... but if we isolate each factor, I think we can understand it a bit better.
In a lab setting, where we can control exactly how much food you get, you can be 100% guaranteed to lose weight in a rather predictable rate (after some parameters are dialed in). You will get the exact amount of food you need to be in a slight deficit,so you will lose weight (thermodynamics). Your body will not store fat out of thin air, this would be nonsense
You can now add hormonal issues: some hormones will make you increase water retention, others will make you FEEL hungry, others will make you crave a triple cheesburger with fries and salsa. All these are bumps on the way to calorie deficit, and it is a psychological struggle to not give in. Some hormones will make you also have the tendency to use less energy by deviating energy expense from somewhere else.
The type of food you eat also makes a difference: eating food without protein and fiber will make you hungry faster, although you don't need that amount of energy. You could get the 2000 calories out of milkshakes every day, but you'd be extremely hungry anyway. High fiber and high protein foods will keep you satiated for longer, and help in reducing the calorie intake. Salty foods will increase the water retention tendency too.
The energy absorption from foods is also different from person to person: some people can swallow 1000kcal in a burger with fries, and only absorb 400kcal, while another person may absorb 700kcal from the same burger. This makes it difficult for some people to understand why they are not losing weight when they actually "do exactly the same" as their counterparts.
Now, does CICO still hold? Yes. The complex part is to reach CI
Did do you know food is suns barcode and deuterium storage?
I am a LMHR ten years down a keto carnivore n=1 rabbit hole gone bioquantum thus shifting from biochemistry forward on.
Were ketones measured?
Yes. In ketosis BHB >0.5mM
I tried this also before a blood test and disappointed, my Gp having heart attack with my ldl and trigs going up, total 14.5. only adding carbs drops mine to 8 with trigs still,
Cant believe your resting pulse is 40 normally
Lowest it ever was was 28
I'm curious, if you monitored sleep scores during this experiment; and if you did, did the calorie increase and increased RHR negatively affect your sleep. I find that high calorie days increase my RHR at the end of the day. That increase seems to crash my sleep scores.
Don't actually own a sleep tracker... feel like it would screw with my sleep. I'm the type to get in my own head about it. That said, my sleep hours did decrease... just felt "buzzed"
Macadamianuts are plants. Plants have a totally different signaling than animal fats and proteins. So go back and do it again eating only animal fats and protein. Totally different result.
What do you predict will be the results? Do you predict that I will gain weight with animal fats, where I didn't with plants? Do you predict that I will have a drop in LDL with butter, where it went up with more macadamia? Please specify your hypotheses.
I had 6 eggs, 2 oz of cheddar cheese and 1 pound of pork for breakfast. I had 2 pounds of beef for lunch and I am going to have 3 pounds of Heart attack chicken and 1 pound of Heart Attack shrimp for dinner. I eat like this almost ever day. How many 'calories" is that? I am 6'6" tall 190 pounds and my weight never increases.
Me too Rick ,I'm 6'4 and often eat 6lbs of pork a day sometimes more than that and I'm 180 lbs cant gain a single lb even on carbs
Most of the fat you consumed was plant based (cocoa butter/coconut oil/olive oil) not animal fat, I wonder how different the results would be if you were only eating animal fat?
What do you predict, and why?
@@nicknorwitzPhD I don't predict anything. I'm merely pointing out that the type of fat may make a difference. We've seen so many studies that have shown deleterious affects from eating fat, until you look at the type of fat, and it was never natural animal fats. As the result you achieved was not what you expected, it would be worth repeating the experiment with a different type of fat. Change one variable at a time to determine is it the fat, the mechanism or something about your personal physiology? Thanks for all you're doing, it's fascinating.
I’m a little lost. Isn’t an LDL-C of 400 extremely atherogenic for most people? Have I missed something?
I would not "recommend" it. This is a metabolic demonstration and LMHR are a particular context. Please go see my video on ApoB and All Cause Mortality.
I would be interested to know what your apoB was before and after. I am a LMHR who has given up trying to gain weight. I can eat a million calories a day and I never gain weight. This explains a lot about individual results.My CAC is scheduled soon I am curious about the results of this test also. Thanks for your great work.
My ApoB tends to parallel by LDL-C, although my non-HDL/ApoB ratio is very high
From a laymans perspective Triglycerides and blood glucose are a lot more telling about metabolism than any part of the cholesterol. I think cholesterol in terms of a indication of health is a fools errand. Of course cholesterol is a constituent of plaque its the repair mechanism habitually trying to repair damage that turns into buildup.
I would love to see this experiment repeated while you wear a cgm. Ideally have fasting insulin measure each day.