One thing I like about the Metal Archives is that they haven't "updated" its interface. Not using "modern" JavaScript black magic makes it easy to use, fast to load, etc.
100%! I often spend a few hours with beers and that feature to just check out a whole lot of obscure stuff and often come accross a couple of real gems.
I just went on Metal Archives to watch a user written review that basically said a band "became pop" with their latest album because the growls weren't guttural enough, they had solos and sometimes he'd hear keyboards lmao
I'm a big Coroner fan and I was on metal archives the other day and someone gave Coroner - Grin a 5% rating because they thought the overall rating for the album was too high. Ridiculous that a review like that is allowed. The review score wasn't even based on the album itself, it was just about lowering the overall rating. If you think the album is 40% or whatever score give it 40%. Just a weird way to review an album imo.
I once tried to submit a band to metal archives and they kicked it for being "metalcore" but then I go to share it in r/metalcore and it gets kicked for being death metal Also Last Days of Humanity not being on there is cursed
@@pek7629 Its funny, they don't have a proper page on MA but bands that they've done splits with who sound similar have pages. Makes me think their criteria begins and ends with I like them or I don't like them
The day I released my album I woke up and I got a message on instagram from someone who told me he found us on the metal archives. That made my day finding out I was already on the metal archives. It felt like a rite of passage.
@@user-ko3fr7fo9b Yeah I debut with a full length album. 8 songs 34 minutes. They classified us as Thrash/Death which I think is a fair category. However I also added some Doom and Black metal stylings into the songs, and plan to play with other metal genres in future releases. (no plans at the moment to do live shows) need to find better musicians, cause the guys I was playing with wanted to do NU metal & metalcore and that ain't my style. So at the time being Dead Alive is a solo project.
@@deadalivemetal shit, I feel you, my project is also solo, because the guys i used to hang with, didn't like my Black metal riffs, they also wanted to do Nu metal, so I just started my own project
I've been holding off on submitting my release for fear of it getting rejected and because of your post I just searched my band (Mutilation Station) and saw that it's already on there. Holy hell that just made my day :)
Additional Fun Facts about Metal Archives: -The guy who runs Dark Descent Records used to be a mod on the site. -The first band to be added was Amorphis but the first musician to be added (having a page on it's own) was Karl Sanders (Nile) -For April fools 2021, all the band pictures were changed with cats. The joke proved succesful enough to have a website on it's own.
@@jamarcusbonquaviustoiletro8520 well their are only like 2 or 3 but they have to be way more metal influenced than the post grunge or hip hop the popular ones aren't on their
Yeah, it's a huge stretch to include them, and I'm a huge Rush fan too. They're undeniably a big influence on a lot of metal bands, but I would never call them metal themselves.
@@danplaysguitar6706 its wild that slip knot, an undeniably heavy band, is not in the archives. I know they aren't the heaviest ever, but you're telling me you can't classify an album like Iowa as metal?
@@dylanwesley3964 Heaviness has very little to do with something being metal or not. Slipknot is pretty heavy at times, but that fact doesn't make them metal.
Despite the site's questionable and nit picky moderation, MA is for sure is one of the best sites for checking out new bands and is actually a wonderful tool in order to search for lesser known to extremely unknown acts to get into. The only reason people use it is to do the latter actually because people with a sense of underground taste would actually go around and search for new quality band for the listener, irrespective of the timeline of the band.
It is horribly infested with neckbeards but otherwise one of the best resources out there and very very thorough. Would be so much better if it was less opinionated and judgemental
@@yearzeroism Like i said the moderation of bands that what should be allowed and not allowed is pretty questionable there. However in certain cases it's totally needed while aside from that it doesn't make sense.
@@yearzeroism I've been using the archives for probably 15 years now, which seems crazy to type lol Never once experienced the neckbeards. But that probably has to do with never making a profile. I'm not on MA to make friends. I do not care about their opinions. I am only there to discover bands and use the "advanced search" function.
For as much as Metal Archives is picky and bizarre in their moderation, I can't deny that they were and still are a gateway for me expanding my knowledge on extreme music.
Writing a review is hell. You have to have an MA in English language and literature . And then it tells you not to review albums track by track . Then you read a review, and its reviewed track by track. So you write a review track by track, and it gets rejected.
@@v8cool168 That's not true, I've written 200 reviews on the site and english is not even my first or second language and not one of which I'm an expert. They only ask that it is readable and well written, in fact they are quite lax as my first reviews were pretty crappy and had a lot of broken english. As for the track by track reviews they are banned for a reason, they are vague and anyone can do them. All the track by track reviews you find are old reviews made when they were not so strict in their review acceptance policies, but in the forum there is a section where people can report these track by track reviews to the moderators and they get deleted.
The problem is that MA became more or less the go-to resource for all metalheads, and this caused many moderators to go on a power trip. If you look through the forums you can find a popular thread named "Cleansing the Archives", where moderators discuss which bands to delete and accept suggestions, and quite often you can see them delete bands for obviously petty reasons, sometimes just to spite a forum member they disagree with, retaliating by removing a band that forum member said he liked. Like all moderators internet-wide, they love wielding the little power they have way too much, and I think this is ultimately the main reason why the inclusion/exclusion policy is so nonsensical.
The "Similar Artists" tab is freaking awesome. It's linked me to sooo many bands I might never have come across. I also go down so many tangents looking other bands/projects that other members are involved in. Also totally agreed about the "not metal enough" inconsistency.
Im a big fan of metal archives but the inconsistent rules for submitting bands and gatekeeping is ridiculous, I've seen grind bands get rejected for not being metal enough and ND is right there.
@@rjshallyarguably the dominant percentage of music by Nd isn't death metal and has a punk,hardcore or in recent times industrial influence/ sound. I'm pro metal archives but there are artists that make extreme or genre bending music that exist in metal or the metal domain that aren't included that could be.
they are there for the strong influence they brought to (death) metal. there are a lot of ambient, hardcore etc bands which are not metal but they have connections to different metal bands. weird that grind gets rejected and dark ambient highly approved, or at least it looks so, anyway you`ll find a lot of grind/crust bands there Also ND have a lot of death metal stuff
@@hentumarius159 completely agree, I was using ND a reference point as they use numbers to calculate how "metal" a release or discography is and much of the discography probably wouldn't make it on a case by case basis. I just think the scope of music should be increased. That being said encyclopaedia metallum as a collective have created an amazing resource for fans
I think it is really amusing that Ghost is on MA and Slipknot isn't. I get there was weird gatekeeping with Slipknot decades ago but I feel like the community has more or less accepted that band in general. According to their logic, Ghost was accepted for their debut record because it is metal. Well All Hope Is Gone is pretty damn metal. I feel like the same caveat should be made.
I don't like either band at all, but would say Slipknot should make it and Ghost shouldn't. Honestly don't understand the hype over Ghost, it's really bland radio rock with a hard image.
They don't accept nu-metal because for the most part it's a stain on the genre, and their sound and image (in general, not all) can't trace itself back to Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and the like, and if they accepted Slipknot then they might as well accept System of a Down, Korn, Disturbed, etc. The same can't be said for retro acts like Ghost where you can actually hear some classic metal influence, even if it's soft as baby shit. Not that I completely agree with this logic, but I can see why they have chosen to go this route.
I used to be in a band from 2014 to 2016, and checking The Metal Archives a few months ago got me really suprised to see my name in the current lineup section, even though 6 years has passed since I left that band
Another thing that baffles me is the inclusion of some hard rock bands, but not all. For example Scorpions, Def Leppard, Deep Purple and Thin Lizzy are included( even though theyre not anywhere heavy enough to be metal) but Led Zeppelin, Van Halen and GunsNRoses are not included even though theyre no less metal than the above mentioned bands
Scorpions and Deep Purple are included as semi-exceptions based on historical importance in metal, 'In Rock', 'Taken by Force' etc. Thin Lizzy are included based on Thunder and Lightning, a NWOBHM-styled album. The others you mentioned never released any albums that can be described as heavy metal.
@@arte0021 They're probably as influential as Deep Purple, however Led Zeppelin never released an album that can be described as heavy metal, unlike Deep Purple who has 'In Rock' and even 'Perfect Strangers' to an extent. If you accept just about anything that was influential to heavy metal, then Elvis would be listed.
@@arte0021 valid opinion. however I think it was pretty groundbreaking for 1970. Bloodsucker is built on a heavy sabbath-type riff, Hard Lovin' Man has that gallop that would be adopted by bands like Iron Maiden etc. Even if none of us think they're heavy enough to be included, the moderators and owners of MA see them as historically important enough to warrant inclusion.
It is super arbitrary which bands get approved and which don't. If a band isn't on the archives I'll look them up on discogs there's usually a decent amount of info on there
Same although I really wish they would just add them to the archives.. Discogs and Wiki can be useful but they're never as In depth or as complete as the archives, I never know if I'm missing anything from a band if it's not on Metallum.
I agree with your points Wyatt. It's one of the greatest resources out there for finding bands but their standards for what's "metal enough" perplexes me at times. I've seen people talk about the hypocrisy of their exclusions as well as some of the bands they have on there that shouldn't be. It's ridiculous how they accept something that isn't metal if they think it's significant enough then go around and reject bands that aren't entirely metal. Heck they don't even allow bands that have only one song, even if it is a metal band. I've made at least a 90 or so submissions over the past few years but they rejected half of them. The reviews are a mixed bag also. If you search by genre for "-metal -nwobhm -thrash -death -black -metalcore -goregrind -deathcore -grind* -crossover" you'll see at least a 100 bands that aren't metal, disincluding "various", but even more if you consider bands that there could be bands on there that aren't labeled correctly. There's also a forum section on deleted bands that has around 150 pages, which really bugs me but at least I can see what bands they removed still and research it if possible.
Yea they rejected slaves of Freedom for me 😕…. Tragic, a lot of bands weren’t on labels and don’t have their music on streaming services so there isn’t any official stuff to link
@@acidbatharchive Same, they rejected my submission of SoF also and said "It's likely these were released on CD, but even so, we're gonna need some more evidence/info about physical distribution here." I hate how they need proof of a physical release when there is so little information out there on some bands.
As someone in an alt / prog rock band that dabbles in metal a little bit, even MY band is in the Metal Archives. I find it VERY funny that we’re allowed in but Converge isn’t lol.
Probably already mentioned, but here goes nothing: - Way back, almost all side projects from "established acts" could have their "non-metal" stuff added to the website. That's why Pain - Hypocrisy's frontman Peter Tägtgren side project - for example, is allowed to remain on the website, whilst Rammstein and other bands deemed either to rocky or industrial aren't. That's also why you have Summoning's side projects on the site, despite being Neo Classical, Ambient, Martial Industrial, et.c. - There used to be a small list of "exceptions" at the website. That's why bands such as Devil Doll is there, despite not being related to any metal act. The justification back then was something along the lines of "This is music that a lot of metal fans might enjoy or is adjacent to metal"-"Included as a selected exception"-something-something. I can't find any mentions of this any more, but I'm almost 100% sure that this was a thing for a handful of bands. Might explain why a lot of dungeon synth was allowed way back as well, but no longer allowed unless they've been on the sight for a long time already.
Metal-Archives is really among one of the great databases of any kind on the Internet-and it really shows how much metalheads are one of the most passionate music fans. I can't measure how much I've learned about bands there (and discovered new recomendations to listen too as well) but yeah,I've noticed their system of inclusion is not that perfect. I guess it's really hard to keep that amount of information fresh new all the time so a little restriction is gonna happen to preserve the quality provided and yeah, it's still weird that the band cited in the video is still not there considering dark ambient sideprojects are included. I guess it's some moderator with some very specific bias that is showing, although there is general instructions to accept bands. But it is not that safe from irregular uploading. This is my critic of MA too.
I was one of the first "metal lords" on the site because I knew the founders... think I added a lot of classic bands in the first week. I fell off after a while, but it was fun being involved in all the early discussions about which bands should/shouldn't make the cut... good times. can't believe that was almost 20 years ago.
@@clintcarr1244 did you used to post on the Relapse or Metal Rules boards? your name is super familiar to me... but yeah, Morrigan was a hardliner, lol. I don't think I ever convinced her to let in any "borderline" bands.
I added an obscure band to the archives last week, thrash metal from Tazewell, Tennessee called Hollow. It’s really satisfying finding an obscure band that’s not listed by getting a demo either off eBay or a trading group.
@@sdjslkdjlsskldjslkdjsl8262 that's true for their self title, iowa and their third album, but All Hope Is Gone and beyond definitely qualify as Metal, as much as Pantera or Machine Head would
The submissions only being allowed to be mostly “metal” rather than there being dungeon synth/dark ambient doesn’t make a lot of sense because my project Final Descent was recently added to the metal archives and my first two demos are 50/50 dark ambient/necrosynth and black metal. Makes me wonder if the moderators listened to my whole discography or just my self-titled demo. Strange inconsistencies.
Amorphis is one of my favorite Finnish metal acts, but what a super random choice to be the first band inducted to the archives. Thanks for the facts in this video!
I remember being obsessed with this site ( Still, I am) and I was impressed by how chill atmosphere was. I was able to make researches about bands and find bands randomly. One day, I was curious about the whole info about Last Days of Humanity then. I was confused how it's split exist alongside with Audiorrea. I realized that band didn't get inducted into the site meanwhile some goregrind or grindcore bands are in that site. It was disappointing but I learnt a hard lesson that there'll be always biases...
@@hugoleonardoamaral586 I guess Metal Archives ' argument is that their insanely fast style of goregrind lacks enough metallic elements to be entered into the site. Fair enough, but they have bands like Gore Beyond Necropsy in there, and many other grind/noisecore acts that really have little to do with metal. At this point, I feel like they're just being stubborn because it's become such a big talking point!
shit metal archives says isn't metal - nu metal of literally any kind - Converge (seriously?) - Magrudergrind (again, why?) - Rosetta - Preiphery It's honestly just so arbitrary since they HAVE deathcore, metalcore, glam metal, and sludge metal bands on there, they just don't pick the ones they don't think are "metal." Crust punk isn't allowed on there either. They also put a little note saying exactly which release they accepted a band for. Ghost is only on there because of their debut.
The MA has been integral to my journey through metal. A large chunk of music I own I discovered on the archives along with watching your videos as well. Unfortunately there isn't a large metal scene where I'm from so the best I have is people online.
I used to check out albums based on scores, but now I find that the albums with the highest number of reviews is usually the one(s) to check out first. A very low rating among high ratings usually means the low rating tells you more about the reviewer than the album. I never finish reading a review if I get elitist vibes.
Boy are there some laughably bad reviews on there lol (someone gave Master of Puppets a 0% and said it ruined metal 😂). The site is an incredible resource of information but I take all the review sections with a huge grain of salt.
Real Metal is stuff like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Dream Theater, Symphony X, Opeth, Nightwish, Kamelot, Blind Guardian, Megadeth, Exodus, Slayer, Draconian, Candlemass, Electric Wizard, Dimmu Borgir, Mayhem etc.
ENT did go through Death metal/grindcore phase in the 90s to early 2000s even if there more known for their crust punk output. Either way would take them over slipknot anyday.
@@Cameron23949 "Real metal is *insert 15 bands who sound almost nothing alike"* So metal can be as broad as Electric Wizard and Dimmu Borgir, but not All Hope Is Gone-era slipknot?
@@Sergio-nb4hjyes that is correct, Slapnuts are not Metal, whereas Electric Wizard are Stoner Doom Metal and Dimmu Borgir are Symphonic Black Metal. If anything Slapnuts are just Nu-Metal which can hardly be called Metal. It may as well just be Hip-Hop with some guitars
What you've said about the Archives is exactly the way I feel about it too. I love the site and frequent it to do research and find new bands, but also have gripes with their somewhat inconsistent, gatekeepy standards for accepting bands. For example, my symphoblack/melodeath band got added to the Archives when we only had a demo, a single, and two covers songs released at the time, but my side project as a solo artist was rejected due to "being a cover band", because I happen to do a lot of metal covers of video game music alongside original music, despite artists like Little V and Falkkone being on there who do the exact same thing. Unless I make a full length album of originals, then they'd consider adding my solo artist project, but I still find it really weird and almost double standard-y regardless, considering a demo and a single was enough for my band to get added.
100% agree with your take. An invaluable resource as it currently is, but I also believe they should let everyone in that's metal or metal-adjacent, and if the band/albums gets trashed in reviews, downvoted, etc., then so be it-at least they're in there. Outstanding example with Die Verbannten Kinder Evas (whom I love, btw), but like you stated, that is essentially 100% dark ambient (or as they say neo-classical darkwave), not a drop of metal at all. Here's the thing: As big a fan I am of extreme metal, I also grew up with the heavy influence of underground labels like Cold Meat Industry and Projekt (to feed my Gothic side) and the two styles compliment one another as you have so many side-projects of metal artist being in this genre of dark ambient/dungeon synth/ethereal gothic, etc. This is because both styles of music (metal and dark ambient/etc) share a common, very important trait with one another: DARK. This instantly separates it from 99% of most pop/rap music. Look at Disembowelment's side project, Trial of the Bow. One of the most crushing death/funeral doom bands of all time, a couple members shortly released a side-project album that honestly would've belonged on 4AD beside Dead Can Dance. Personally, I wish it ALL could be included - yes, even the cringy stuff that no one admits to liking - because it would work better as an exhaustive resource. If you've already made tabs for neo-classical, dark ambient and darkwave, just through it all in there. It's immediately apparent what it is metal and what isn't, but because a lot of metal fans are also fans of other styles of dark music, as long as it sufficiently tagged what's the issue. No one is going to accidentally come across Die Verbannten Kinder Evas on TMA and think, oh an extreme metal band I've never heard of, let me go buy all their stuff. It's clearly tagged what they are. I don't know; there's so much crossover I think it's fine in the end. Is there a way for site designer to make it so the bands they don't want on there, be on the site, but never come up in recommended (as crappy as that sounds, perhaps that would be a compromise. Everyone would be in there, findable within search but the bands they don't like/hate, would never come up as recommended and their albums would be trashed in reviews. At least they would be in there. TMA being a private website beholden to no one, I don't see them changing their stance anytime soon. Like your example with Ærekær (thanks for bringing them up, they sound right up my alley), I too have run into this issue with bands that seem to cross-genres and I hate all the bullshit with gatekeeping so I just appreciate TMA for what it is - a remarkable achievement with the unfortunate gatekeeping of hundreds (if not thousands now with all the new deathcore bands that have shot up in the past decade) of artists who should be included, but it is what it is. It's great for all the reasons you stated in your video - and you made your points succinctly and were thoughtful and cogent without making the video terribly long. Great job!
ha! thanks for making this video! i submitted my band years ago with the hopes of getting our music out there more but got a hard no. admittedly we're more in the post-metal/proggy metal section but neurosis is in there, and so is the ocean collective, both of which are pretty huge influences for us so i figured we'd have a shot.
I more or less use the Metal Archives just to find out on any band I see my friends recommend. That said, I do snark at how snobby they are, most notably at how obsessed they are with locking threads all the time.
What I will say is that Metal Archives has been invaluable to me when it comes to organising my Drowning the Light collection. I need to incorporate the site itself in my life a lot more, but it's definitely had its uses, no doubt.
There should really be a "Similar Album" tab for albums. If I look at the Voivod page, "Similar Artists" lists every Thrash Metal band that started around the same time as Voivod, and that's not really helpful, considering that Voivod had nothing to do with them even with the first two albums, other than having been influenced by Venom, and playing fast, noisy music. Not to mention that their style changed so much from album to album. The same goes for Carcass and Mayhem as well.
I used to use the MA for a while (for about a year I was a regular user) but in the end I was disappointed by how narrow/inconsistent the field of genres within it was especially considering that I tend to align more with hardcore-influenced bands, after a while I migrated to RYM for that reason + the fact that the community on RYM is a lot more active these days than MA that being said I still return every now and again if only for some of the users on MA who know their shit and for that 'random band' button that has introduced me to many a great (and awful) bands
Yeah, I started getting into metalcore/hardcore more recently and noticed that certain bands were on and others weren't. Literally the same type of music, toured with bands that were on MA. But one band was included and one wasn't. Very odd. But I don't use MA to interact with anyone. I'm there for the search function. I have never once interacted with anyone on MA in over a decade of use. "Similar bands" and the advanced search function are enough to use it on a regular basis. Easy to find a demo from the late 80s or early 90s randomly like Timeghoul or Sindrome... and Somehow Rorschach can make the MA, but Vision of Disorder can't. Weird site sometimes, but it serves its purpose.
Everything you stated in this video I completely agree with especially the segment on Deathcore/Metalcore, there is a lot of great areas on the website as to why they don’t approve some bands which is such a shame because in my opinion the website is vegan for information regarding metal bands but could also be an even bigger Beagan if it open its eyes to other genres as you stated, as well as the fact that it has some genres on there that aren’t even metal, Very solid video mate
Found Metal Archives in the mid '00s and it's still my go to site for finding info on bands and albums. Also for finding out when new albums are coming out as well as finding new bands. I really like the similar artists feature. It's great for finding new bands.
i toally agree about their personal classification of what is metal. if they allow and list all the various synth based side projects of black metal artist, then definitely slipknot,mudvayne,korn, coal chamber etc..... should be accepted... i mean it was actually those bands that lead me to discover most of the more underground extreme metal..
I really love Metal Archives. It's a lexicon when i'm searching about bands and albums i find randomly on UA-cam, which helps a lot in future purchases and do more diggin about them! Also i love the old school page which is used till now!🤘🤘
Wyattxhim, Blackmetal Werewolf and Quest For Metal are my favourite metal tubers. Mostly because they do other stuff than just reviews all the time.. they talk about much more interesting stuff and just come across as really likeable dudes.
Ken's Death Metal Crypt is also pretty good. He interviewed Cianide which was excellent. I gleaned a lot of good Chicago area bands off of that stream.
@@SpergerKing He's great because he really lived the scene by supporting band, tape trading worldwide and spreading the underground world, thing that almost all metal youtubers lack.
The site would be perfect, if more people used it that were into more genres of metal other than black metal. I used to trade on there over 10 years ago quite often, but the chance of finding anything cool and interesting but black metal are slim.
The Metal Archives may not be perfect, but it's the best and most complete reliable source for Metal music. Edit: It's pretty easy to criticize, but very hard to do your own stuff, I wish that all of those who hate on the Metal Archives because “muh band is blacklisted" created and PAID their own domain, and did a “better job” than the M.A, I'll wait for that.
Another example of some of the nonsensical bias: how August Burns Red is not on metal archives but Underoath, As I Lay Dying, All That Remains, etc. are
the best solution to this apparent "hypocrisy" is to remove Underoath, AILD and All That Remains. Make the site a little more consistent and make gatekept crybabies cry harder
I might be biased because I'm a huge slipknot fan, but I think any metal band regardless of quality or acceptance in the community should be put on the site. It's an ARCHIVE.
I'm using that site since ever and never came to the idea to look at the 'Similar Artists' tab. It is quite astonishing how well this scoring system actually works.
Great video man! Love Metal Archives for all the reasons you’ve stated too, but find the inclusion and exclusion of certain bands very confusing and not seemingly based on any criteria. For example, Cock and Ball Torture are on the archives but then Last Days of Humanity isn’t? It is especially disappointing for bands like this not to be included given how prolific they are and the length of time they’ve been releasing music. MA is such a great resource and it’s always such a shame when something that should obviously be included isn’t. Will just have keep relying on Discogs as a backup.
I remember reading somewhere that "if a deathcore band has too many chug riffs and breakdowns and not enough blast beats and trem riffs" then they wont be accepted as that means they take more influence from "core" genres and not "metal" genres.
I completely agree with everything you said. I'm not and was never a frequent user of the website, but with me being a huge Slipknot fan during my teenage years I was aware of their way to select bands that get inducted in it. The fact that there is a small group of people deciding what "is metal" and what "is not" really ruins the credibility of the website for me. And I don't mean that in a negative way like I'm mad at them or offended by something. When I first discovered the website years ago I was excited about having a source of information like that but was soon turned off by the fact that it was run by the tastes and ideas of a few people and not just for the sake of giving informations.
The non metal bands like the ambient stuff are there because of the old side project rule. As for grindcore, good chunk of grindcore got way more death metal in their sound than anything else. Same with the metalcore and deathcore that are on the site. The ones that get rejected got more core than metal in their sound. The site is very consistent on what they allow and reject.
Who gets to decide that Jinjer and Periphery aren't allowed on the site but Chimaira, Shadows Fall and Devildriver are? it all seems very arbitrary and gatekeep-y to me, I also think its funny that White Zombie has a page but Rob Zombie can't (he does as a member of white zombie but not as a music project)
@@ThrashXCV The mods obviously get to decide. The bands you mentioned that's not on the site never released a metal album as far as I know, the ones you listed that are on the site have at least one metal album. The site is not an archive of metal bands, but rather of bands that have at least one metal album. That's why Thin Lizzy and Def Leppard are on the site despite not being metal bands. That's why Soulfly wasn't added to the site until 2012. They had no metal albums up until then. That's the criteria that the site have been going with since the very start.
Nah, the mods are a bunch of wankers. How is Trivium there but Avenged Sevenfold isn't? Like, if a band from Scandinavia that looked like Amon Amarth and played the side stage on Wacken made a record like City of Evil, all the soy drinking wankers on Metal Archives would eat it up.
I totally agree with you. Metal Archives are a wonderful tool that just embodies the passion of this sub-culture all around the world. Sadly, it has its "Inner Circle" which is arbitrary in its decisions. Even if I don't like New Metal that much, it deserves to be there. Even if I do like Grindcore, as you were saying, it is way closer to punk than anything else. And let's not forget that Industrial Metal is in there too! I mean, KMFDM has some of the heaviest and most awesome riffs out there, or even Rammstein has a metal sound that cannot be ignored. I believe that as long as this wonderful project keeps in private hands, we just have to accept their contradictions and arbitrary decision-making.
there's also 'MetalMusicArchives', which doesn't have as well laid out an Interface, but nobody there has anything jammed up where the Sun doesn't shine. so, i use both.
@@kapriizais8278 Both can be traced back to Black Sabbath. Mütiilation -> Darkthrone -> Bathory -> Venom -> Motörhead -> Judas Priest -> Black Sabbath Incantation -> Autopsy -> Death -> Slayer -> Venom -> Motörhead -> Judas Priest -> Black Sabbath
The guys from Korn don't listen (or at least not when they where interviews on this) to classic rock and metal like Zeppelin, Priest and Maiden. They liked Faith No More, RATM, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, rap, funk and groove metal. So they where not even influenced mostly by metal, but by music I (and many other metal purists) don't like.
The most puzzling missing band from the archives has always been Between the Buried and Me. I know they had some metalcore stuff early on, but they’ve been a progressive metal band for a long time.
I find it totally hilarious that korn or soad are not on the site. I can see why you would argue against their inclusion... like 20 years ago. But in 2022? Lmfao Also you have nightwish on there, who dress up as a metal band but basically make schlager music. Dont get me wrong, Im fine with them being on the site. But suicide silence is not because theyre not metal enough? Muhaha
@@El_Molzo oh and also, can we talk about how Motley Crue is on the site but Ratt isn’t? They’re heavier than MC lol. Also in the non accepted bands section they have Avenged Sevenfold listed as “modern hard rock”? Again their last album was progressive metal, with thrash influence. Basically if they don’t like a certain fanbase it doesn’t matter how “metal” something is. Also not considering Djent as a sub-genre of metal seems completely asinine. As a result, the site is incomplete, in my eyes.
I think it's an excellent resource and if I hear a metal band for the first time that sounds pretty decent, it's the first place I go for further info on them.
It's the greatest website for all things metal, but I can see some improvements for it. The website has some really old options and search parameters. These could be updated by a skilled developer. Still, all things considered it's a life-saver website, find similar bands of your favorite bands, expand your knowledge and taste for various metal sounds and themes. It's truly fantastic project and highly educational tool.
In the rules section where it mentions genres they won’t accept it says “Progressive rock (ex: King Crimson, Porcupine Tree, Spock's Beard, Tool, Scale the Summit)” However, Rush is listed on the archives under the genre “progressive rock” Its a good website but they seem unbelievably bias and elitist when making the rules on whats acceptable or not (I love rush btw)
They have all these loopholes that they're really arbitrary about enforcing. In Rush's case, their 70s output was somewhere between heavy metal and progressive rock, and then that is "decisively" tipped in the metal direction for their direct influence on groups we would uncontroversially classify as metal (Watchtower, Dream Theater, Sieges Even, you know what I mean). King Crimson can get heavy on some of their tunes, but not as consistently as Rush. So that's why Rush gets a pass but KC doesn't as far as I can tell. But still, it doesn't change the fact that they're really just going by a super unsystematic gut feeling and whether they like the band, not any coherent musicological criteria. It's kinda funny, I wish they would _expand_ the selection of groups that are sonically and stylistically there but perhaps _subculturally_ occupy a more ambiguous place (e.g. metalcore, numetal, grindcore) while _removing_ all the dark ambient/dungeon synth sideprojects of every other black metal band that might be subculturally overlapping with metal, but sonically have no major point of connection. But that's me.
That’s some bullshit right there. They’re way too blood and soil when it comes to what metal is. Those bands mentioned should be in as well as Blue Oyster Cult which I commented on above.
I love this site and was using it just as I saw this video. However the hypocrisy of the mods is devastating. Especially in the case you mentioned with that ambient black metal band. They have thousands of ambient black metal bands in their archives that are super ambient-leaning. They allow boohoo black metal like Happy Days and Wedard but Ahulabrum is blacklisted???
Yep. Yet they have bands like Burzum which also has just as many dark ambient/dungeon sinth albums as it does black metal albums.... But Burzum Is included likely just because it's one of the most well known black metal bands.
@@cookiesontoast9981 you do realize that in order for a band to be included in MA, they need at least one album that's predominantly metal, right? The only exceptions to this rule are the non-metal exceptions, but they don't allow that anymore. If Ærekær really wants to be on MA, they can start by making an album that's more metal than ambient.
@@paveantelic7876 I think it's even more offensive that Emit is allowed and not Ahulabrum lol. Like, where's the consistency in that? Suicide Silence is "not metal" but Deafheaven is?
I've been using the site since around the time 2008 was transitioning into 2009. I've been a member (on my current account) since 2014 and contributed a fair bit now. I've built up my collection there, and have a little section on my profile with CDs from bands I consider metal, at least in some ways. Some I understand why they wouldn't be added if submitted. That said, while I don't always agree with the band blacklist, the accepted bands have helped me define the types of metal I like to listen to. I used to love metalcore and deathcore, and lamented at the exclusion of most bands from the genres, but now I understand why. It certainly helps keep the site cleaner too, because there's some pretty trash excuses for "metal" floating about... Most exceptions are for notable influences or side projects of high profile artists, and aren't really something I care about. I'll keep using the site until it or myself eventually shut down. That will be a sad day for metal, but until then I'll keep submitting bands and albums, and making small corrections here and there. The site has introduced me to so many bands so I feel compelled to contribute in some way.
I use it to check if a band name is already take or how common or rare an album title or song title is so I can make changes and have an original title that no one else has.
Ive been on metal archives and while I dont really mind the site for keeping record of metal bands, It always annoyed me that numetal was just not allowed. Even that aside, the searching filters seem really narrow for me.
Nu metal usually takes on more non-metal influences than actual metal, so even if there's some metal in there, it's not usually the main focus. Though to be fair, I wouldn't mind seeing System of a Down on MA
I'm retired from Metal Archives and music journalism generally these days, but I was a big contributor some years back, and reached the exalted rank of 'Metal Demon'! I had my fair share of run-ins with the mods, and the debate about what is and is not 'metal' will never end, but I basically have great respect for the site and the people who run it, and it's an invaluable resource for anyone with an interest in the field. Horns up! \m/
I've been familiar with the Metal Archives for years, and I really think the website is useful and help us get the information about metal bands worldwide. However, as you mentioned, I think it is weird that some Metalcore/Deathcore bands are not in the website. Your example was Suicide Silence, and I want to cite Born Of Osiris. I hope the Metal Archives will add these bands and resolve the inconsistency.
That site has no respect for traditional heavy metal, the NWOBHM bands/scene (they recently removed Split Beaver - what blasphemy!), and the beginnings/early days of metal (UFO, Uriah Heep, Jerusalem, Dust, Stray, Blue Oyster Cult etc.) They're out of control with how many classic HEAVY METAL bands they have removed/are removing. They have turned into a very misleading, uninformative site and a HUGE disservice to heavy metal and its history.
There are some mental acrobatics involved with how bands are inducted into this website for sure. It's interesting to see As I Lay Dying having an entry but no "emo-adjacent" metalcore bands that were their contemporaries (i.e. Atreyu, Bullet for my Valentine). I have to think how the mods assess "metalness" comes down to aesthetics Also the gatekeeping of the djent-adjacent death metal (Vildhjarta, Humanity's Last Breath) because it's allegedly predominantly "djent/mathcore" and the simultaneous inclusion of Meshuggah is just laughable. I don't know where these dudes studied musicology (they didn't), but a subjective bias is afoot. The idea of the website is cool, and it's neat to see friends' bands in there (should that pass the elusive "metal" test), but trying to wrap my head around where these dudes get off on deeming something "metal enough" is enough to induce an aneurism.
Hi. I'm a moderator of Metal Archives, so I'll try to respond to some points in this video. The site is indeed a fantastic tool for research, as it has so much information about each band. I have discovered loads of bands from using it, and found even more from this channel. 5:47 I think the neoclassical darkwave project brought up is one of a small number of special non-metal exceptions selected by the staff/owners for their involvement in the metal scene. If I was the site owner I would not include any non-metal exceptions. 6:29 Grindcore, deathcore and metalcore are not strictly forbidden, they may be included if the specific band has enough metal influence. It's not always an easy decision, and unsurprisingly, disagreements on this subject occur frequently. 7:15 Our selection process should remain strictly in accordance to the definitions of metal as set by the site owners, and we do not decide based on whether or not we like a band. I like Slaughter to Prevail a lot, I'm not sure what the general staff opinion of Suicide Silence is (probably mixed), but both bands are excluded because their deathcore is more -core than metal. We certainly don't expect anyone to view us as a source/authority on what is metal at all, we simply follow our beliefs. We accept there are so many ways to define metal. I can say that just like you, even the vast majority of the moderators would likely do things differently if they could have it 100% their way!
I was today years old that I found out this website has a “random band feature”. this could be useful for finding bands that I never thought I’d listen to. Also, I agree with the “metal influenced bands in metal archives”, and the April fools thing was neat, Korn and the cat thing was funny. Ps. Has Wyatt heard of Scythelord? It seems like a band he would like.
I'm a new user to this website, but I gotta say it's really fucking amazing for discovering new bands. I looked up my favorite band "Revocation", looked up similar artists (they are voted on by users), and found that particular tech death with melodeath influenced sound that I was looking for. Some of the bands they allow and disallow are questionable (counting rush as a metal band) but besides that I think its a very valuable resource. The community may seem snobby but the discord is full of welcoming people from what i've seen. I personally believe however, that most of those nu metal bands and deathcore/metalcore bands aren't metal (with the exception of some stuff) and they deserve to stay off archives, not only because of their sound but because of their fan demographic, which tends to not be situated in the "metal" community. That's just my personal belief.
I understand the "core" (lol) of your argument. but when your reasoning refers back to the fan demographics and how metal they are culturally, you really lose the point of an unbiased conglomerate of music data. I've been listening to metal for most of my life and dress that way and interact with people in the metal world regularly, but I also listen to fucking Carly Rae Jepsen and Tame Impala as much as I listen to Marduk. Fans crossover. and any music that has influence from extreme styles should be included in MA. Most fans of prog metal like Periphery or Dream Theater live in a completely different cultural space than fans of Deathspell Omega or Imperial Triumphant. but they're metal. Avenged Sevenfold, Korn, and Suicide Silence aren't allowed to have pages because of arbitrary cultural ties and nothing to do with the amount of "metal" in the music. Like Wyatt said, Poppy and Babymetal should have pages too. Just because something is adjacent culturally doesn't mean the roots aren't in metal. Its Gatekeeping for the sake of elitism, which has no place in a wiki. You're allowed to dislike the bands as much as you want, but to pretend that there is some imaginary line to enforce between things that are "truly" metal inspired and "fake" metal is ludicrous. some metalheads are like "Its not really metal it just has distorted guitars, screaming, aggressively fast drums, takes melodic influence from iron maiden, and drop tuning with slam riffs, but since they're liked by teenage girls and the lyrics are kinda girly emotional stuff its def not cool or metal" lol. (Sidenote. I fucking love Revocation, I've seen them 4 times and it seems like they get better everytime. I even have Dave Davidson's signature pickups in one of my guitars)
@@ThrashXCV Yeah I think your argument is more reasonable than mine lol, if i'm being totally honest I kind of don't want that demographic to come on to archives. I feel like some places deserve to stay elitist or gatekept, because people like me honestly need a safeplace sometimes from all the poserdom. So yeah, I hate to admit it but I say a lot of bands aren't metal for the sake of keeping the core/nu fanbase unassociated with metal. As wrong as it is, its not the worst thing in the world, and besides theres a lot of elitism in core communities as well. But shhhhh dont tell the posers... (Also yeah dave davidsons pickups are fucking sick! Would have gotten them if I still had my schecter 7 string. I saw them just recently in st.petersburg last month and twas an amazing show!)
@@ThrashXCV I missed that one so I had to go to the St.Petersburg one lol. Whitechapel was ok but SOI really surprised me, gotta admit I was already thinking they were gonna suck because they were deathcore, but they really blew me away and I checked out some of their stuff after. The other two go without sayin lol.
Somehow bands that created something original from a cover aren't included because they are a "cover band" (they did my boi Demetori dirty) While grunge/core bands are included because they have metal elements with it, even though it's more core than metal It's like western bands get a free pass while Eastern bands are subjected to more scrutiny, since deafheaven is blackgaze/post-black and is included, while yousei teikoku is not included because they are considered post-gothic Small edit: just saw your most wanted vinyls video and heard the rant about melodeath, try listening to Path of Apotheosis by Inferi and The Body Cosmic by Iapetus, very technical/progressive takes on the melodeath genre and in my opinion its a breath of fresh air for melodeath
It's fantastic. I remember a clip I saw on Rage and the song was called "metal scream" but I couldn't for the life of me remember which band it was. I typed metal scream into their song category and wallah the band came up - Steel Affliction.
It's not a perfect system, but I do think the selection process is necessary. If - as you suggested - any band affiliated with the label "metal" made it to the archives, then bands like Nickelback or Five Finger Death Punch who are objectively NOT metal would make the cut, simply because a good majority of the population (non-metalheads) genuinely think they're metal. Yes, I agree the archives could be more lenient and allow bands like Slipknot (Slipknot and Iowa will always be heavy as balls) into the archives, but I think your recommendation is much too lenient. As with anything, there's a golden mean.
One thing I like about the Metal Archives is that they haven't "updated" its interface. Not using "modern" JavaScript black magic makes it easy to use, fast to load, etc.
yeah i hope they never decide to fuck with the interface... it's fast and easy to use.
That is awesome, because it works really well, on a smartphone, without needing the use of an "app".
They have actually. Probably would have been back in '09 or so, but it used to be made out of frames and stuff without the tabs on the band pages.
Looks amazing aesthetically too.
And it just exudes the ethos of the genre better than any other format could.
I find the "Random band" feature extremely helpful for finding new underground bands
100%! I often spend a few hours with beers and that feature to just check out a whole lot of obscure stuff and often come accross a couple of real gems.
Same
or for a good laugh
@@Raventooth True
@@metalevilution4565 what are any cool finds you had! I'm intrigued
I just went on Metal Archives to watch a user written review that basically said a band "became pop" with their latest album because the growls weren't guttural enough, they had solos and sometimes he'd hear keyboards lmao
Nah,that is crazy...
Is like saying that Nickelback became metal cuz their songs got heavier
I'm a big Coroner fan and I was on metal archives the other day and someone gave Coroner - Grin a 5% rating because they thought the overall rating for the album was too high. Ridiculous that a review like that is allowed. The review score wasn't even based on the album itself, it was just about lowering the overall rating. If you think the album is 40% or whatever score give it 40%. Just a weird way to review an album imo.
@@SuperStrik9 Hahaha, that's the most pretensious "review" I've ever heard about
I once tried to submit a band to metal archives and they kicked it for being "metalcore" but then I go to share it in r/metalcore and it gets kicked for being death metal
Also Last Days of Humanity not being on there is cursed
😂😂😂
LDOH isn't in MA? What the f-
It's not exactly my favorite band, but definitely should be in there
@@pek7629 Its funny, they don't have a proper page on MA but bands that they've done splits with who sound similar have pages. Makes me think their criteria begins and ends with I like them or I don't like them
@@taylorbelanger7982 Exactly! What a weird bunch of moderators
@@taylorbelanger7982 I highly doubt the mods like all 157,651 bands on the site.
The day I released my album I woke up and I got a message on instagram from someone who told me he found us on the metal archives. That made my day finding out I was already on the metal archives. It felt like a rite of passage.
Your music is sick.
I also have a band project, I would like to know how they classified you in MA?
Did you launch a full length album?
@@user-ko3fr7fo9b Yeah I debut with a full length album. 8 songs 34 minutes. They classified us as Thrash/Death which I think is a fair category. However I also added some Doom and Black metal stylings into the songs, and plan to play with other metal genres in future releases. (no plans at the moment to do live shows) need to find better musicians, cause the guys I was playing with wanted to do NU metal & metalcore and that ain't my style. So at the time being Dead Alive is a solo project.
@@deadalivemetal But you sent them a CD or digital copy? And you can earn money on spotify?
@@deadalivemetal shit, I feel you, my project is also solo, because the guys i used to hang with, didn't like my Black metal riffs, they also wanted to do Nu metal, so I just started my own project
I've been holding off on submitting my release for fear of it getting rejected and because of your post I just searched my band (Mutilation Station) and saw that it's already on there. Holy hell that just made my day :)
Additional Fun Facts about Metal Archives:
-The guy who runs Dark Descent Records used to be a mod on the site.
-The first band to be added was Amorphis but the first musician to be added (having a page on it's own) was Karl Sanders (Nile)
-For April fools 2021, all the band pictures were changed with cats. The joke proved succesful enough to have a website on it's own.
What's the website?
Another cool fact: the large band Slipknot is not on the archives lmfao
edit: he mentioned this lmfao
@@Radio-Friendly-Unit there are no “nu metal” bands on the site
@@jamarcusbonquaviustoiletro8520 There are, actually, if you search for bands under nu metal. It's just not the ones you'd expect.
@@jamarcusbonquaviustoiletro8520 well their are only like 2 or 3 but they have to be way more metal influenced than the post grunge or hip hop the popular ones aren't on their
I always laugh at the fact that Rush is on the archives only because one of the admins is a huge fan of the band.
Yeah, it's a huge stretch to include them, and I'm a huge Rush fan too. They're undeniably a big influence on a lot of metal bands, but I would never call them metal themselves.
Interesting how Rush are on there but nu metal bands just get excluded because they don't like them
@@danplaysguitar6706 its wild that slip knot, an undeniably heavy band, is not in the archives. I know they aren't the heaviest ever, but you're telling me you can't classify an album like Iowa as metal?
@@dylanwesley3964 Korn not being on there when Faith No More is is crazy to me
@@dylanwesley3964 Heaviness has very little to do with something being metal or not. Slipknot is pretty heavy at times, but that fact doesn't make them metal.
Despite the site's questionable and nit picky moderation, MA is for sure is one of the best sites for checking out new bands and is actually a wonderful tool in order to search for lesser known to extremely unknown acts to get into. The only reason people use it is to do the latter actually because people with a sense of underground taste would actually go around and search for new quality band for the listener, irrespective of the timeline of the band.
"one of"? Come on now!
It is horribly infested with neckbeards but otherwise one of the best resources out there and very very thorough. Would be so much better if it was less opinionated and judgemental
@@yearzeroism Like i said the moderation of bands that what should be allowed and not allowed is pretty questionable there. However in certain cases it's totally needed while aside from that it doesn't make sense.
@@yearzeroism I've been using the archives for probably 15 years now, which seems crazy to type lol Never once experienced the neckbeards. But that probably has to do with never making a profile. I'm not on MA to make friends. I do not care about their opinions. I am only there to discover bands and use the "advanced search" function.
For as much as Metal Archives is picky and bizarre in their moderation, I can't deny that they were and still are a gateway for me expanding my knowledge on extreme music.
Writing a review is hell. You have to have an MA in English language and literature . And then it tells you not to review albums track by track . Then you read a review, and its reviewed track by track. So you write a review track by track, and it gets rejected.
@@v8cool168 That’s why you do reviews on Rate Your Music instead, for better or worse
@@v8cool168 That's not true, I've written 200 reviews on the site and english is not even my first or second language and not one of which I'm an expert. They only ask that it is readable and well written, in fact they are quite lax as my first reviews were pretty crappy and had a lot of broken english. As for the track by track reviews they are banned for a reason, they are vague and anyone can do them. All the track by track reviews you find are old reviews made when they were not so strict in their review acceptance policies, but in the forum there is a section where people can report these track by track reviews to the moderators and they get deleted.
The problem is that MA became more or less the go-to resource for all metalheads, and this caused many moderators to go on a power trip.
If you look through the forums you can find a popular thread named "Cleansing the Archives", where moderators discuss which bands to delete and accept suggestions, and quite often you can see them delete bands for obviously petty reasons, sometimes just to spite a forum member they disagree with, retaliating by removing a band that forum member said he liked.
Like all moderators internet-wide, they love wielding the little power they have way too much, and I think this is ultimately the main reason why the inclusion/exclusion policy is so nonsensical.
The "Similar Artists" tab is freaking awesome. It's linked me to sooo many bands I might never have come across. I also go down so many tangents looking other bands/projects that other members are involved in. Also totally agreed about the "not metal enough" inconsistency.
Im a big fan of metal archives but the inconsistent rules for submitting bands and gatekeeping is ridiculous, I've seen grind bands get rejected for not being metal enough and ND is right there.
@@rjshallyarguably the dominant percentage of music by Nd isn't death metal and has a punk,hardcore or in recent times industrial influence/ sound. I'm pro metal archives but there are artists that make extreme or genre bending music that exist in metal or the metal domain that aren't included that could be.
Agreed, think Blue Oyster Cult is rejected, Thin Lizzy is not.
they are there for the strong influence they brought to (death) metal. there are a lot of ambient, hardcore etc bands which are not metal but they have connections to different metal bands. weird that grind gets rejected and dark ambient highly approved, or at least it looks so, anyway you`ll find a lot of grind/crust bands there
Also ND have a lot of death metal stuff
@@hentumarius159 completely agree, I was using ND a reference point as they use numbers to calculate how "metal" a release or discography is and much of the discography probably wouldn't make it on a case by case basis. I just think the scope of music should be increased. That being said encyclopaedia metallum as a collective have created an amazing resource for fans
Tool is not there ?!?
I think it is really amusing that Ghost is on MA and Slipknot isn't. I get there was weird gatekeeping with Slipknot decades ago but I feel like the community has more or less accepted that band in general. According to their logic, Ghost was accepted for their debut record because it is metal. Well All Hope Is Gone is pretty damn metal. I feel like the same caveat should be made.
exactly! like look me in the eyes and tell me with a straight face that their first 2 albums aren’t metal
I get MA's rules for "metal riffs" but Slipknot literally has tons of death metal riffs
That makes me like MA even more!
I don't like either band at all, but would say Slipknot should make it and Ghost shouldn't. Honestly don't understand the hype over Ghost, it's really bland radio rock with a hard image.
They don't accept nu-metal because for the most part it's a stain on the genre, and their sound and image (in general, not all) can't trace itself back to Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and the like, and if they accepted Slipknot then they might as well accept System of a Down, Korn, Disturbed, etc. The same can't be said for retro acts like Ghost where you can actually hear some classic metal influence, even if it's soft as baby shit. Not that I completely agree with this logic, but I can see why they have chosen to go this route.
I used to be in a band from 2014 to 2016, and checking The Metal Archives a few months ago got me really suprised to see my name in the current lineup section, even though 6 years has passed since I left that band
Another thing that baffles me is the inclusion of some hard rock bands, but not all. For example Scorpions, Def Leppard, Deep Purple and Thin Lizzy are included( even though theyre not anywhere heavy enough to be metal) but Led Zeppelin, Van Halen and GunsNRoses are not included even though theyre no less metal than the above mentioned bands
Scorpions and Deep Purple are included as semi-exceptions based on historical importance in metal, 'In Rock', 'Taken by Force' etc. Thin Lizzy are included based on Thunder and Lightning, a NWOBHM-styled album. The others you mentioned never released any albums that can be described as heavy metal.
@@svekkapung how is Led Zeppelin less influential to metal than Deep Purple and Scorpions though?
@@arte0021 They're probably as influential as Deep Purple, however Led Zeppelin never released an album that can be described as heavy metal, unlike Deep Purple who has 'In Rock' and even 'Perfect Strangers' to an extent. If you accept just about anything that was influential to heavy metal, then Elvis would be listed.
@@svekkapung i dont see "In Rock" as heavy metal though. Its hard rock with some prog elements
@@arte0021 valid opinion. however I think it was pretty groundbreaking for 1970. Bloodsucker is built on a heavy sabbath-type riff, Hard Lovin' Man has that gallop that would be adopted by bands like Iron Maiden etc. Even if none of us think they're heavy enough to be included, the moderators and owners of MA see them as historically important enough to warrant inclusion.
Metal Archives doesn't even have last days of humanity
They’re gorenoise with pretty much no riffs
@@MarcusBlueWolf Their 90s stuff is goregrind
Maybe they didn't take it literally
@@MarcusBlueWolfnoise bands is literally on the metal archive too 😢
It is super arbitrary which bands get approved and which don't. If a band isn't on the archives I'll look them up on discogs there's usually a decent amount of info on there
Same although I really wish they would just add them to the archives.. Discogs and Wiki can be useful but they're never as In depth or as complete as the archives, I never know if I'm missing anything from a band if it's not on Metallum.
or RYM
I agree with your points Wyatt. It's one of the greatest resources out there for finding bands but their standards for what's "metal enough" perplexes me at times. I've seen people talk about the hypocrisy of their exclusions as well as some of the bands they have on there that shouldn't be. It's ridiculous how they accept something that isn't metal if they think it's significant enough then go around and reject bands that aren't entirely metal. Heck they don't even allow bands that have only one song, even if it is a metal band. I've made at least a 90 or so submissions over the past few years but they rejected half of them. The reviews are a mixed bag also.
If you search by genre for "-metal -nwobhm -thrash -death -black -metalcore -goregrind -deathcore -grind* -crossover" you'll see at least a 100 bands that aren't metal, disincluding "various", but even more if you consider bands that there could be bands on there that aren't labeled correctly. There's also a forum section on deleted bands that has around 150 pages, which really bugs me but at least I can see what bands they removed still and research it if possible.
Yea they rejected slaves of Freedom for me 😕…. Tragic, a lot of bands weren’t on labels and don’t have their music on streaming services so there isn’t any official stuff to link
@@acidbatharchive Same, they rejected my submission of SoF also and said "It's likely these were released on CD, but even so, we're gonna need some more evidence/info about physical distribution here." I hate how they need proof of a physical release when there is so little information out there on some bands.
As someone in an alt / prog rock band that dabbles in metal a little bit, even MY band is in the Metal Archives. I find it VERY funny that we’re allowed in but Converge isn’t lol.
Probably already mentioned, but here goes nothing:
- Way back, almost all side projects from "established acts" could have their "non-metal" stuff added to the website. That's why Pain - Hypocrisy's frontman Peter Tägtgren side project - for example, is allowed to remain on the website, whilst Rammstein and other bands deemed either to rocky or industrial aren't. That's also why you have Summoning's side projects on the site, despite being Neo Classical, Ambient, Martial Industrial, et.c.
- There used to be a small list of "exceptions" at the website. That's why bands such as Devil Doll is there, despite not being related to any metal act. The justification back then was something along the lines of "This is music that a lot of metal fans might enjoy or is adjacent to metal"-"Included as a selected exception"-something-something. I can't find any mentions of this any more, but I'm almost 100% sure that this was a thing for a handful of bands. Might explain why a lot of dungeon synth was allowed way back as well, but no longer allowed unless they've been on the sight for a long time already.
Metal-Archives is really among one of the great databases of any kind on the Internet-and it really shows how much metalheads are one of the most passionate music fans. I can't measure how much I've learned about bands there (and discovered new recomendations to listen too as well) but yeah,I've noticed their system of inclusion is not that perfect. I guess it's really hard to keep that amount of information fresh new all the time so a little restriction is gonna happen to preserve the quality provided and yeah, it's still weird that the band cited in the video is still not there considering dark ambient sideprojects are included. I guess it's some moderator with some very specific bias that is showing, although there is general instructions to accept bands. But it is not that safe from irregular uploading. This is my critic of MA too.
I was one of the first "metal lords" on the site because I knew the founders... think I added a lot of classic bands in the first week. I fell off after a while, but it was fun being involved in all the early discussions about which bands should/shouldn't make the cut... good times. can't believe that was almost 20 years ago.
about 5000 15-year olds are cursing your name right now because you didn't fight for Slipknot hard enough
I had to fight tooth and nail for months to get Impetigo on there because Morrigan kept calling them a crust band.
@@clintcarr1244 did you used to post on the Relapse or Metal Rules boards? your name is super familiar to me... but yeah, Morrigan was a hardliner, lol. I don't think I ever convinced her to let in any "borderline" bands.
yea Relapse and MMBB
I added an obscure band to the archives last week, thrash metal from Tazewell, Tennessee called Hollow. It’s really satisfying finding an obscure band that’s not listed by getting a demo either off eBay or a trading group.
I think it’s really stupid that the site don’t allow Slipknot to have an entry. Love Slipknot or loathe them, they are undeniably a metal band
I can deny it. Slipknot don't sound like metal to me, they sound like alt-rock with downtuned guitars.
@@sdjslkdjlsskldjslkdjsl8262 Then you are tone deaf. They are not Alt Rock. I ain't even a Slipknot fan.
@@sdjslkdjlsskldjslkdjsl8262 that's true for their self title, iowa and their third album, but All Hope Is Gone and beyond definitely qualify as Metal, as much as Pantera or Machine Head would
Every point you made is dead-on. Such a thorough resource, but not without fault. Love this video!
I've enjoyed using this website for over a decade now and will continue to do so 😎
The submissions only being allowed to be mostly “metal” rather than there being dungeon synth/dark ambient doesn’t make a lot of sense because my project Final Descent was recently added to the metal archives and my first two demos are 50/50 dark ambient/necrosynth and black metal. Makes me wonder if the moderators listened to my whole discography or just my self-titled demo. Strange inconsistencies.
Neat.
Just because of that, I need to hear these projects.
Amorphis is one of my favorite Finnish metal acts, but what a super random choice to be the first band inducted to the archives. Thanks for the facts in this video!
I remember being obsessed with this site ( Still, I am) and I was impressed by how chill atmosphere was. I was able to make researches about bands and find bands randomly. One day, I was curious about the whole info about Last Days of Humanity then. I was confused how it's split exist alongside with Audiorrea. I realized that band didn't get inducted into the site meanwhile some goregrind or grindcore bands are in that site. It was disappointing but I learnt a hard lesson that there'll be always biases...
at a time, years ago they had a profile there as I remember. weird...
@@hentumarius159 Yes, thank you! I could have sworn LDOH were on there for a year or two, but I was starting to think I'd dreamt it.
@@KZ66100 if I remember correct it was in 2010 a bit after their reunion
What's the deal with that band? I've just discovered them and was surprised that if wasn't there as well
@@hugoleonardoamaral586 I guess Metal Archives ' argument is that their insanely fast style of goregrind lacks enough metallic elements to be entered into the site. Fair enough, but they have bands like Gore Beyond Necropsy in there, and many other grind/noisecore acts that really have little to do with metal. At this point, I feel like they're just being stubborn because it's become such a big talking point!
shit metal archives says isn't metal
- nu metal of literally any kind
- Converge (seriously?)
- Magrudergrind (again, why?)
- Rosetta
- Preiphery
It's honestly just so arbitrary since they HAVE deathcore, metalcore, glam metal, and sludge metal bands on there, they just don't pick the ones they don't think are "metal." Crust punk isn't allowed on there either. They also put a little note saying exactly which release they accepted a band for. Ghost is only on there because of their debut.
Nu Metal sucks tho
@@Cameron23949 still metal
The MA has been integral to my journey through metal. A large chunk of music I own I discovered on the archives along with watching your videos as well. Unfortunately there isn't a large metal scene where I'm from so the best I have is people online.
>Doesn't allow Slipknot on because they're "not metal"
>Literally gives Alice in Chains a page
The management on this site needs to be gutted.
Also they have allowed Dark Ambient projects there.
Alice In Chains does have metal music. Slipknot is just rap rock.
@@paulhetrick1759 Slipknot is a metal band.
@@paulhetrick1759 They are a grunge band and just because they have metal influence doesn't make them metal. As for your second statement, No.
@The metal archives is kinda shit Slipknot is just rap rock, baggy jumpsuits, turntables, rapping vocals.
similar artists is my favorite thing. you can definitely get lost in a rabbit hole on there
I used to check out albums based on scores, but now I find that the albums with the highest number of reviews is usually the one(s) to check out first. A very low rating among high ratings usually means the low rating tells you more about the reviewer than the album. I never finish reading a review if I get elitist vibes.
Boy are there some laughably bad reviews on there lol (someone gave Master of Puppets a 0% and said it ruined metal 😂). The site is an incredible resource of information but I take all the review sections with a huge grain of salt.
there are some people that don't review albums really for what they are.
you have some thrash boys downrating opeth and things like that
Anyone who considers Extreme Noise Terror a METAL band, but not Slipknot needs their ears checked...
Slapnuts are not metal tho...
As for Extreme Noise Terror i haven't heard of them before so I can't comment
Real Metal is stuff like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Dream Theater, Symphony X, Opeth, Nightwish, Kamelot, Blind Guardian, Megadeth, Exodus, Slayer, Draconian, Candlemass, Electric Wizard, Dimmu Borgir, Mayhem etc.
ENT did go through Death metal/grindcore phase in the 90s to early 2000s even if there more known for their crust punk output. Either way would take them over slipknot anyday.
@@Cameron23949 "Real metal is *insert 15 bands who sound almost nothing alike"*
So metal can be as broad as Electric Wizard and Dimmu Borgir, but not All Hope Is Gone-era slipknot?
@@Sergio-nb4hjyes that is correct, Slapnuts are not Metal, whereas Electric Wizard are Stoner Doom Metal and Dimmu Borgir are Symphonic Black Metal. If anything Slapnuts are just Nu-Metal which can hardly be called Metal. It may as well just be Hip-Hop with some guitars
They've been my go to source for quite some time. Great site!
One thing that trips me up immensely about the Metal Archives, Rush is on there but Last Days of Humanity isn't.
They also have Perturbator just because "he played in a few black metal bands before". Nice.
They also have Kurt Kobain and Necro/Ill Bill
What you've said about the Archives is exactly the way I feel about it too. I love the site and frequent it to do research and find new bands, but also have gripes with their somewhat inconsistent, gatekeepy standards for accepting bands. For example, my symphoblack/melodeath band got added to the Archives when we only had a demo, a single, and two covers songs released at the time, but my side project as a solo artist was rejected due to "being a cover band", because I happen to do a lot of metal covers of video game music alongside original music, despite artists like Little V and Falkkone being on there who do the exact same thing. Unless I make a full length album of originals, then they'd consider adding my solo artist project, but I still find it really weird and almost double standard-y regardless, considering a demo and a single was enough for my band to get added.
100% agree with your take. An invaluable resource as it currently is, but I also believe they should let everyone in that's metal or metal-adjacent, and if the band/albums gets trashed in reviews, downvoted, etc., then so be it-at least they're in there. Outstanding example with Die Verbannten Kinder Evas (whom I love, btw), but like you stated, that is essentially 100% dark ambient (or as they say neo-classical darkwave), not a drop of metal at all.
Here's the thing: As big a fan I am of extreme metal, I also grew up with the heavy influence of underground labels like Cold Meat Industry and Projekt (to feed my Gothic side) and the two styles compliment one another as you have so many side-projects of metal artist being in this genre of dark ambient/dungeon synth/ethereal gothic, etc. This is because both styles of music (metal and dark ambient/etc) share a common, very important trait with one another: DARK. This instantly separates it from 99% of most pop/rap music.
Look at Disembowelment's side project, Trial of the Bow. One of the most crushing death/funeral doom bands of all time, a couple members shortly released a side-project album that honestly would've belonged on 4AD beside Dead Can Dance. Personally, I wish it ALL could be included - yes, even the cringy stuff that no one admits to liking - because it would work better as an exhaustive resource. If you've already made tabs for neo-classical, dark ambient and darkwave, just through it all in there. It's immediately apparent what it is metal and what isn't, but because a lot of metal fans are also fans of other styles of dark music, as long as it sufficiently tagged what's the issue. No one is going to accidentally come across Die Verbannten Kinder Evas on TMA and think, oh an extreme metal band I've never heard of, let me go buy all their stuff. It's clearly tagged what they are. I don't know; there's so much crossover I think it's fine in the end.
Is there a way for site designer to make it so the bands they don't want on there, be on the site, but never come up in recommended (as crappy as that sounds, perhaps that would be a compromise. Everyone would be in there, findable within search but the bands they don't like/hate, would never come up as recommended and their albums would be trashed in reviews. At least they would be in there. TMA being a private website beholden to no one, I don't see them changing their stance anytime soon.
Like your example with Ærekær (thanks for bringing them up, they sound right up my alley), I too have run into this issue with bands that seem to cross-genres and I hate all the bullshit with gatekeeping so I just appreciate TMA for what it is - a remarkable achievement with the unfortunate gatekeeping of hundreds (if not thousands now with all the new deathcore bands that have shot up in the past decade) of artists who should be included, but it is what it is.
It's great for all the reasons you stated in your video - and you made your points succinctly and were thoughtful and cogent without making the video terribly long. Great job!
ha! thanks for making this video! i submitted my band years ago with the hopes of getting our music out there more but got a hard no. admittedly we're more in the post-metal/proggy metal section but neurosis is in there, and so is the ocean collective, both of which are pretty huge influences for us so i figured we'd have a shot.
I more or less use the Metal Archives just to find out on any band I see my friends recommend. That said, I do snark at how snobby they are, most notably at how obsessed they are with locking threads all the time.
They don't like unapproved discussion over there. Censorship is very metal.
What I will say is that Metal Archives has been invaluable to me when it comes to organising my Drowning the Light collection. I need to incorporate the site itself in my life a lot more, but it's definitely had its uses, no doubt.
metal archives is definitely my most visited website next to youtube. great video!
Thank you for the valuable material. I appreciate the Summoning logo T-shirt :)
There should really be a "Similar Album" tab for albums. If I look at the Voivod page, "Similar Artists" lists every Thrash Metal band that started around the same time as Voivod, and that's not really helpful, considering that Voivod had nothing to do with them even with the first two albums, other than having been influenced by Venom, and playing fast, noisy music. Not to mention that their style changed so much from album to album. The same goes for Carcass and Mayhem as well.
I used to use the MA for a while (for about a year I was a regular user) but in the end I was disappointed by how narrow/inconsistent the field of genres within it was especially considering that I tend to align more with hardcore-influenced bands, after a while I migrated to RYM for that reason + the fact that the community on RYM is a lot more active these days than MA
that being said I still return every now and again if only for some of the users on MA who know their shit and for that 'random band' button that has introduced me to many a great (and awful) bands
Yeah, I started getting into metalcore/hardcore more recently and noticed that certain bands were on and others weren't. Literally the same type of music, toured with bands that were on MA. But one band was included and one wasn't. Very odd. But I don't use MA to interact with anyone. I'm there for the search function. I have never once interacted with anyone on MA in over a decade of use. "Similar bands" and the advanced search function are enough to use it on a regular basis. Easy to find a demo from the late 80s or early 90s randomly like Timeghoul or Sindrome... and Somehow Rorschach can make the MA, but Vision of Disorder can't. Weird site sometimes, but it serves its purpose.
Everything you stated in this video I completely agree with especially the segment on Deathcore/Metalcore, there is a lot of great areas on the website as to why they don’t approve some bands which is such a shame because in my opinion the website is vegan for information regarding metal bands but could also be an even bigger Beagan if it open its eyes to other genres as you stated, as well as the fact that it has some genres on there that aren’t even metal, Very solid video mate
Found Metal Archives in the mid '00s and it's still my go to site for finding info on bands and albums. Also for finding out when new albums are coming out as well as finding new bands. I really like the similar artists feature. It's great for finding new bands.
Agree that their reasons for not including certain bands due to disliking their music or image is total bs. Great video as per usual!
i toally agree about their personal classification of what is metal.
if they allow and list all the various synth based side projects of black metal artist, then definitely slipknot,mudvayne,korn, coal chamber etc..... should be accepted... i mean it was actually those bands that lead me to discover most of the more underground extreme metal..
Same
I really love Metal Archives. It's a lexicon when i'm searching about bands and albums i find randomly on UA-cam, which helps a lot in future purchases and do more diggin about them! Also i love the old school page which is used till now!🤘🤘
Wyattxhim I can’t think of a better metal UA-camr than u, u deserve more! 🤘🏽
Wyattxhim, Blackmetal Werewolf and Quest For Metal are my favourite metal tubers.
Mostly because they do other stuff than just reviews all the time.. they talk about much more interesting stuff and just come across as really likeable dudes.
Ken's Death Metal Crypt is also pretty good. He interviewed Cianide which was excellent. I gleaned a lot of good Chicago area bands off of that stream.
@@SpergerKing He's great because he really lived the scene by supporting band, tape trading worldwide and spreading the underground world, thing that almost all metal youtubers lack.
The site would be perfect, if more people used it that were into more genres of metal other than black metal. I used to trade on there over 10 years ago quite often, but the chance of finding anything cool and interesting but black metal are slim.
Love the Summoning shirt! Props sir!
This made my collection grow exponentially in short time
The Metal Archives may not be perfect, but it's the best and most complete reliable source for Metal music.
Edit: It's pretty easy to criticize, but very hard to do your own stuff, I wish that all of those who hate on the Metal Archives because “muh band is blacklisted" created and PAID their own domain, and did a “better job” than the M.A, I'll wait for that.
True. But It could be even better, and It isn't for stupid made up reasons
100%. It’s literally the Bible for Metal.
@@sadboi7537 Exactly!
Ive been reading MA ever since 2003s or something. Still LOVE IT !
I love the Metal Archives. I use it a lot.
Another example of some of the nonsensical bias: how August Burns Red is not on metal archives but Underoath, As I Lay Dying, All That Remains, etc. are
the best solution to this apparent "hypocrisy" is to remove Underoath, AILD and All That Remains. Make the site a little more consistent and make gatekept crybabies cry harder
I might be biased because I'm a huge slipknot fan, but I think any metal band regardless of quality or acceptance in the community should be put on the site. It's an ARCHIVE.
I'm using that site since ever and never came to the idea to look at the 'Similar Artists' tab.
It is quite astonishing how well this scoring system actually works.
Great video man! Love Metal Archives for all the reasons you’ve stated too, but find the inclusion and exclusion of certain bands very confusing and not seemingly based on any criteria. For example, Cock and Ball Torture are on the archives but then Last Days of Humanity isn’t? It is especially disappointing for bands like this not to be included given how prolific they are and the length of time they’ve been releasing music.
MA is such a great resource and it’s always such a shame when something that should obviously be included isn’t.
Will just have keep relying on Discogs as a backup.
I remember reading somewhere that "if a deathcore band has too many chug riffs and breakdowns and not enough blast beats and trem riffs" then they wont be accepted as that means they take more influence from "core" genres and not "metal" genres.
that’s dumb. blast beats are literally a -core thing.
Made up reasons to justify gatekeeping
I've been visiting this site for years. I love it
I completely agree with everything you said.
I'm not and was never a frequent user of the website, but with me being a huge Slipknot fan during my teenage years I was aware of their way to select bands that get inducted in it.
The fact that there is a small group of people deciding what "is metal" and what "is not" really ruins the credibility of the website for me. And I don't mean that in a negative way like I'm mad at them or offended by something.
When I first discovered the website years ago I was excited about having a source of information like that but was soon turned off by the fact that it was run by the tastes and ideas of a few people and not just for the sake of giving informations.
The non metal bands like the ambient stuff are there because of the old side project rule. As for grindcore, good chunk of grindcore got way more death metal in their sound than anything else. Same with the metalcore and deathcore that are on the site. The ones that get rejected got more core than metal in their sound. The site is very consistent on what they allow and reject.
Who gets to decide that Jinjer and Periphery aren't allowed on the site but Chimaira, Shadows Fall and Devildriver are? it all seems very arbitrary and gatekeep-y to me, I also think its funny that White Zombie has a page but Rob Zombie can't (he does as a member of white zombie but not as a music project)
@@ThrashXCV The mods obviously get to decide. The bands you mentioned that's not on the site never released a metal album as far as I know, the ones you listed that are on the site have at least one metal album. The site is not an archive of metal bands, but rather of bands that have at least one metal album. That's why Thin Lizzy and Def Leppard are on the site despite not being metal bands. That's why Soulfly wasn't added to the site until 2012. They had no metal albums up until then. That's the criteria that the site have been going with since the very start.
Carcass-grindcore-death
Nah, the mods are a bunch of wankers. How is Trivium there but Avenged Sevenfold isn't? Like, if a band from Scandinavia that looked like Amon Amarth and played the side stage on Wacken made a record like City of Evil, all the soy drinking wankers on Metal Archives would eat it up.
Oh hi MA mod
I totally agree with you. Metal Archives are a wonderful tool that just embodies the passion of this sub-culture all around the world. Sadly, it has its "Inner Circle" which is arbitrary in its decisions. Even if I don't like New Metal that much, it deserves to be there. Even if I do like Grindcore, as you were saying, it is way closer to punk than anything else. And let's not forget that Industrial Metal is in there too! I mean, KMFDM has some of the heaviest and most awesome riffs out there, or even Rammstein has a metal sound that cannot be ignored.
I believe that as long as this wonderful project keeps in private hands, we just have to accept their contradictions and arbitrary decision-making.
Honestly, grindcore could go either way. It is both metal and punk. It just depends on which band has more influence from either side.
there's also 'MetalMusicArchives', which doesn't have as well laid out an Interface, but nobody there has anything jammed up where the Sun doesn't shine.
so, i use both.
I have been using it since mabey 2014 I love it I have discovered so many bands thanks to it this and rate your music
Heard it took years for Trist (Cze) to be added because the moderators reviewing the discography kept killing themselves.
Good place to find all kinds of bands.
I don’t think I would be as far into the metal rabbit hole that I am without this website.
Great video, Wyatt! Couldn't agree more on everything you said.
The only basis for excluding nu metal is that they don't like it lmao
@@rjshally what does death or black metal have to do with black sabbath?
@@kapriizais8278
Both can be traced back to Black Sabbath.
Mütiilation -> Darkthrone -> Bathory -> Venom -> Motörhead -> Judas Priest -> Black Sabbath
Incantation -> Autopsy -> Death -> Slayer -> Venom -> Motörhead -> Judas Priest -> Black Sabbath
@@rjshally Well, you can apply the same logic to metalcore, deathcore and even some nu metal
Black Sabbath -> Blue Cheer -> Dick Dale -> Link Wray
The guys from Korn don't listen (or at least not when they where interviews on this) to classic rock and metal like Zeppelin, Priest and Maiden. They liked Faith No More, RATM, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, rap, funk and groove metal. So they where not even influenced mostly by metal, but by music I (and many other metal purists) don't like.
The most puzzling missing band from the archives has always been Between the Buried and Me. I know they had some metalcore stuff early on, but they’ve been a progressive metal band for a long time.
I find it totally hilarious that korn or soad are not on the site. I can see why you would argue against their inclusion... like 20 years ago. But in 2022? Lmfao
Also you have nightwish on there, who dress up as a metal band but basically make schlager music. Dont get me wrong, Im fine with them being on the site. But suicide silence is not because theyre not metal enough? Muhaha
@@El_Molzo it's a complete double standard and it's more of an association issue. They can't stand the fans of those bands that is why.
@@El_Molzo I agree, Slipknot is not on there either nor is Lorna Shore
@@El_Molzo oh and also, can we talk about how Motley Crue is on the site but Ratt isn’t? They’re heavier than MC lol. Also in the non accepted bands section they have Avenged Sevenfold listed as “modern hard rock”? Again their last album was progressive metal, with thrash influence. Basically if they don’t like a certain fanbase it doesn’t matter how “metal” something is. Also not considering Djent as a sub-genre of metal seems completely asinine. As a result, the site is incomplete, in my eyes.
Oh they have a dedicated forum for them, especially whenever they release a new album.
I think it's an excellent resource and if I hear a metal band for the first time that sounds pretty decent, it's the first place I go for further info on them.
It's the greatest website for all things metal, but I can see some improvements for it. The website has some really old options and search parameters. These could be updated by a skilled developer. Still, all things considered it's a life-saver website, find similar bands of your favorite bands, expand your knowledge and taste for various metal sounds and themes. It's truly fantastic project and highly educational tool.
In the rules section where it mentions genres they won’t accept it says “Progressive rock (ex: King Crimson, Porcupine Tree, Spock's Beard, Tool, Scale the Summit)”
However, Rush is listed on the archives under the genre “progressive rock”
Its a good website but they seem unbelievably bias and elitist when making the rules on whats acceptable or not
(I love rush btw)
I generally hit up Sea of Tranquility as a backup to MA, particularly when I'm looking up progressive or jazz fusion bands.
They have all these loopholes that they're really arbitrary about enforcing. In Rush's case, their 70s output was somewhere between heavy metal and progressive rock, and then that is "decisively" tipped in the metal direction for their direct influence on groups we would uncontroversially classify as metal (Watchtower, Dream Theater, Sieges Even, you know what I mean). King Crimson can get heavy on some of their tunes, but not as consistently as Rush. So that's why Rush gets a pass but KC doesn't as far as I can tell.
But still, it doesn't change the fact that they're really just going by a super unsystematic gut feeling and whether they like the band, not any coherent musicological criteria. It's kinda funny, I wish they would _expand_ the selection of groups that are sonically and stylistically there but perhaps _subculturally_ occupy a more ambiguous place (e.g. metalcore, numetal, grindcore) while _removing_ all the dark ambient/dungeon synth sideprojects of every other black metal band that might be subculturally overlapping with metal, but sonically have no major point of connection. But that's me.
I don't think Between the Buried and Me are on there either.
I think they try to keep the breaking points inside while keeping out branches that grow away from metal.
That’s some bullshit right there. They’re way too blood and soil when it comes to what metal is. Those bands mentioned should be in as well as Blue Oyster Cult which I commented on above.
I love this site and was using it just as I saw this video. However the hypocrisy of the mods is devastating. Especially in the case you mentioned with that ambient black metal band. They have thousands of ambient black metal bands in their archives that are super ambient-leaning. They allow boohoo black metal like Happy Days and Wedard but Ahulabrum is blacklisted???
Yep. Yet they have bands like Burzum which also has just as many dark ambient/dungeon sinth albums as it does black metal albums....
But Burzum Is included likely just because it's one of the most well known black metal bands.
i just searched ahulabrum up the other day and had the same thoughts lmfao. fucking emit is allowed but suicide silence is not? ok lol
@@cookiesontoast9981 you do realize that in order for a band to be included in MA, they need at least one album that's predominantly metal, right? The only exceptions to this rule are the non-metal exceptions, but they don't allow that anymore. If Ærekær really wants to be on MA, they can start by making an album that's more metal than ambient.
@@paveantelic7876 I think it's even more offensive that Emit is allowed and not Ahulabrum lol. Like, where's the consistency in that? Suicide Silence is "not metal" but Deafheaven is?
@@cummywummy2896 yep full agree. baffling choices
I've been using the site since around the time 2008 was transitioning into 2009. I've been a member (on my current account) since 2014 and contributed a fair bit now. I've built up my collection there, and have a little section on my profile with CDs from bands I consider metal, at least in some ways. Some I understand why they wouldn't be added if submitted. That said, while I don't always agree with the band blacklist, the accepted bands have helped me define the types of metal I like to listen to. I used to love metalcore and deathcore, and lamented at the exclusion of most bands from the genres, but now I understand why. It certainly helps keep the site cleaner too, because there's some pretty trash excuses for "metal" floating about... Most exceptions are for notable influences or side projects of high profile artists, and aren't really something I care about. I'll keep using the site until it or myself eventually shut down. That will be a sad day for metal, but until then I'll keep submitting bands and albums, and making small corrections here and there. The site has introduced me to so many bands so I feel compelled to contribute in some way.
I use it to check if a band name is already take or how common or rare an album title or song title is so I can make changes and have an original title that no one else has.
Ive been on metal archives and while I dont really mind the site for keeping record of metal bands, It always annoyed me that numetal was just not allowed. Even that aside, the searching filters seem really narrow for me.
Nu metal usually takes on more non-metal influences than actual metal, so even if there's some metal in there, it's not usually the main focus. Though to be fair, I wouldn't mind seeing System of a Down on MA
Nu is not metal. It's rap rock.
@@paulhetrick1759 not all of it has rap, but I'd classify nu-metal as a form of hard rock, not metal.
I'm retired from Metal Archives and music journalism generally these days, but I was a big contributor some years back, and reached the exalted rank of 'Metal Demon'! I had my fair share of run-ins with the mods, and the debate about what is and is not 'metal' will never end, but I basically have great respect for the site and the people who run it, and it's an invaluable resource for anyone with an interest in the field. Horns up! \m/
That Watchmaker vinyl man!!!!!!! Love them and miss them.
I wish there was a site like this for all music other than just metal
I've been familiar with the Metal Archives for years, and I really think the website is useful and help us get the information about metal bands worldwide. However, as you mentioned, I think it is weird that some Metalcore/Deathcore bands are not in the website. Your example was Suicide Silence, and I want to cite Born Of Osiris. I hope the Metal Archives will add these bands and resolve the inconsistency.
Metal Archives would be the best site on the internet if it weren't for "______ band not metal" bullshit.
Following curiosity to your page after reading your invite at Metro.
I have found a ton of bands on this site as well. I was also stoked when they inducted me and my 2 one man bands and label on it.
That site has no respect for traditional heavy metal, the NWOBHM bands/scene (they recently removed Split Beaver - what blasphemy!), and the beginnings/early days of metal (UFO, Uriah Heep, Jerusalem, Dust, Stray, Blue Oyster Cult etc.) They're out of control with how many classic HEAVY METAL bands they have removed/are removing. They have turned into a very misleading, uninformative site and a HUGE disservice to heavy metal and its history.
There are some mental acrobatics involved with how bands are inducted into this website for sure. It's interesting to see As I Lay Dying having an entry but no "emo-adjacent" metalcore bands that were their contemporaries (i.e. Atreyu, Bullet for my Valentine). I have to think how the mods assess "metalness" comes down to aesthetics
Also the gatekeeping of the djent-adjacent death metal (Vildhjarta, Humanity's Last Breath) because it's allegedly predominantly "djent/mathcore" and the simultaneous inclusion of Meshuggah is just laughable. I don't know where these dudes studied musicology (they didn't), but a subjective bias is afoot.
The idea of the website is cool, and it's neat to see friends' bands in there (should that pass the elusive "metal" test), but trying to wrap my head around where these dudes get off on deeming something "metal enough" is enough to induce an aneurism.
Meshuggah were a thrash metal band early in their career, so that's why they were added.
Meshuggah wouldn't be in there if they didn't release their first albums which were mostly Groove/Thrash
Hi. I'm a moderator of Metal Archives, so I'll try to respond to some points in this video.
The site is indeed a fantastic tool for research, as it has so much information about each band. I have discovered loads of bands from using it, and found even more from this channel.
5:47 I think the neoclassical darkwave project brought up is one of a small number of special non-metal exceptions selected by the staff/owners for their involvement in the metal scene. If I was the site owner I would not include any non-metal exceptions.
6:29 Grindcore, deathcore and metalcore are not strictly forbidden, they may be included if the specific band has enough metal influence. It's not always an easy decision, and unsurprisingly, disagreements on this subject occur frequently.
7:15 Our selection process should remain strictly in accordance to the definitions of metal as set by the site owners, and we do not decide based on whether or not we like a band. I like Slaughter to Prevail a lot, I'm not sure what the general staff opinion of Suicide Silence is (probably mixed), but both bands are excluded because their deathcore is more -core than metal.
We certainly don't expect anyone to view us as a source/authority on what is metal at all, we simply follow our beliefs. We accept there are so many ways to define metal. I can say that just like you, even the vast majority of the moderators would likely do things differently if they could have it 100% their way!
I was today years old that I found out this website has a “random band feature”.
this could be useful for finding bands that I never thought I’d listen to.
Also, I agree with the “metal influenced bands in metal archives”, and the April fools thing was neat, Korn and the cat thing was funny.
Ps. Has Wyatt heard of Scythelord? It seems like a band he would like.
cat photos in the archives
Yeah that one was gold
I'm a new user to this website, but I gotta say it's really fucking amazing for discovering new bands. I looked up my favorite band "Revocation", looked up similar artists (they are voted on by users), and found that particular tech death with melodeath influenced sound that I was looking for. Some of the bands they allow and disallow are questionable (counting rush as a metal band) but besides that I think its a very valuable resource. The community may seem snobby but the discord is full of welcoming people from what i've seen. I personally believe however, that most of those nu metal bands and deathcore/metalcore bands aren't metal (with the exception of some stuff) and they deserve to stay off archives, not only because of their sound but because of their fan demographic, which tends to not be situated in the "metal" community. That's just my personal belief.
I understand the "core" (lol) of your argument. but when your reasoning refers back to the fan demographics and how metal they are culturally, you really lose the point of an unbiased conglomerate of music data. I've been listening to metal for most of my life and dress that way and interact with people in the metal world regularly, but I also listen to fucking Carly Rae Jepsen and Tame Impala as much as I listen to Marduk. Fans crossover. and any music that has influence from extreme styles should be included in MA. Most fans of prog metal like Periphery or Dream Theater live in a completely different cultural space than fans of Deathspell Omega or Imperial Triumphant. but they're metal. Avenged Sevenfold, Korn, and Suicide Silence aren't allowed to have pages because of arbitrary cultural ties and nothing to do with the amount of "metal" in the music. Like Wyatt said, Poppy and Babymetal should have pages too. Just because something is adjacent culturally doesn't mean the roots aren't in metal. Its Gatekeeping for the sake of elitism, which has no place in a wiki. You're allowed to dislike the bands as much as you want, but to pretend that there is some imaginary line to enforce between things that are "truly" metal inspired and "fake" metal is ludicrous. some metalheads are like "Its not really metal it just has distorted guitars, screaming, aggressively fast drums, takes melodic influence from iron maiden, and drop tuning with slam riffs, but since they're liked by teenage girls and the lyrics are kinda girly emotional stuff its def not cool or metal" lol.
(Sidenote. I fucking love Revocation, I've seen them 4 times and it seems like they get better everytime. I even have Dave Davidson's signature pickups in one of my guitars)
@@ThrashXCV Yeah I think your argument is more reasonable than mine lol, if i'm being totally honest I kind of don't want that demographic to come on to archives. I feel like some places deserve to stay elitist or gatekept, because people like me honestly need a safeplace sometimes from all the poserdom. So yeah, I hate to admit it but I say a lot of bands aren't metal for the sake of keeping the core/nu fanbase unassociated with metal. As wrong as it is, its not the worst thing in the world, and besides theres a lot of elitism in core communities as well. But shhhhh dont tell the posers...
(Also yeah dave davidsons pickups are fucking sick! Would have gotten them if I still had my schecter 7 string. I saw them just recently in st.petersburg last month and twas an amazing show!)
@@rev9737 Lol I was at that show at Jannus live. Corpse, Whitechapel, and Shadow of Intent all killed it.
@@ThrashXCV I missed that one so I had to go to the St.Petersburg one lol. Whitechapel was ok but SOI really surprised me, gotta admit I was already thinking they were gonna suck because they were deathcore, but they really blew me away and I checked out some of their stuff after. The other two go without sayin lol.
The layout is 2002 too... But it's great to check if your band name is taken or not.
Favorite feature is you can see all the past and current bands the members of a band you are looking at were/are in.
Somehow bands that created something original from a cover aren't included because they are a "cover band" (they did my boi Demetori dirty)
While grunge/core bands are included because they have metal elements with it, even though it's more core than metal
It's like western bands get a free pass while Eastern bands are subjected to more scrutiny, since deafheaven is blackgaze/post-black and is included, while yousei teikoku is not included because they are considered post-gothic
Small edit: just saw your most wanted vinyls video and heard the rant about melodeath, try listening to Path of Apotheosis by Inferi and The Body Cosmic by Iapetus, very technical/progressive takes on the melodeath genre and in my opinion its a breath of fresh air for melodeath
It's fantastic. I remember a clip I saw on Rage and the song was called "metal scream" but I couldn't for the life of me remember which band it was. I typed metal scream into their song category and wallah the band came up - Steel Affliction.
Great video. Really good discussion.
Great video man,I always wandered why I haven't seen slipknot there.
It's not a perfect system, but I do think the selection process is necessary. If - as you suggested - any band affiliated with the label "metal" made it to the archives, then bands like Nickelback or Five Finger Death Punch who are objectively NOT metal would make the cut, simply because a good majority of the population (non-metalheads) genuinely think they're metal. Yes, I agree the archives could be more lenient and allow bands like Slipknot (Slipknot and Iowa will always be heavy as balls) into the archives, but I think your recommendation is much too lenient. As with anything, there's a golden mean.
Funny enough in the MA v.1 FFDP was in there but I'm sure we're expunged as part of the purge that also included suicide silence as well.