🤔 When and why use a tile leveling system, especially for cheap bowed tiles.
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
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Tile Leveling systems explained, when and why they should be used to reduce or even eliminate lippage between tiles. Cheap tiles from box stores can really benefit from the use of a leveling system during installation. The cheaper the tile, the more likely it will have a pronounced bow to it, that will be impossible to reduce without the help of a leveling system. Lippage is when one edge of a tile is higher than the adjacent tile. Porcelain tiles are getting larger and larger as time goes on, any tile with one side longer than 15" (38cm) is considered a large format tile. These large format tiles are usually not flat, the manufacturing process cause the tiles to bow as they are made, some are bowed more than others, but all will have some degree curve to them, and the longer the tile, the more it becomes a problem. In this video I explain how this impacts the installation of the tile and why Leveling systems have become so numerous and adopted to help with the installation of these large tiles and how they reduce lippage of the installed tile. There are many types of systems, but all work in the same way to bring the tiles into plane by clamping the edges of the tiles together, whether the system is a wedge type, spindle or cap type, the principle is the same. All tile installed by Sal DiBlasi, Elite-tile Company, in the Boston North Shore area. This video contains affiliate links, which means I will receive a small commission if you click on the product link.
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Wife and I were screaming in terror when you lifted up the connected tiles! But seriously, Sal, thanks for ALL the vids on tile leveling systems. It will be my first time with large-format rectangular tiles and you are a life-saver. I had just realized I was in trouble with lippage and you came to the rescue! Will be checking out more of your videos. SUBSCRIBED!
All good tile guys and grill masters wear those new balance shoes. Proven fact.
🤣👍
You see em a lot on prison yards :)
Lmao! Dudes on his feet and knees all day Long! I see a lot of the black or white basic basic nikes that have super thick soles too. Sal, how are your knees after decades of laying tile? My cousin does wood floors and I know he’s got knee and arthritis issues.. beautiful work very talented guy but it destroys your body over time
Yes, People who actually work for a living want good shoes.
And phone clips are like lightsabers for these grand masters
At 9:22 you push down on the planks, I did not realize tiles were as flexible as this. So the leveling system can actually bend the tiles straight. Thanks.
It's not so much a levelling system but a tile bending system :-)
I wish I had run into your videos 3 weeks ago. Even with good tiles it all comes down to who’s driving the trowel. Unless you are going for Boho Chic and want that Lip to add Rustic Flare - go for the leveling system. Happy Easter all.
Ansy
would be cool if you did a video on the tile manufacturers you recommend.
Installed 900 sq.ft of 6x36, self-leveler where needed,L.F.T. mortar(no clips) but they were rectified porcelain tiles.Those tiles no hope unless you use leveling clips. Thanks for the Vid!
I just want to thank you so much for making this video . Before we never realized how important a leveling system was needed. We own a handyman business and our work is our pride and joy and this just made all the difference for us . So thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge you just changed our ability to install like a professional and improve our performance thank you thank you thank you . Muah .
I appreciate your comment about pride and joy of a job well done.
I quietly finished a tile job this week when my scheduled time was up.
The owner’s main guy, had a poor attitude and sloppy work ethic in tiling and it showed in his work in a residential home.
Nice video Sal. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.
I cant wait till 12×12 becomes popular again Lol
Don't count on it. 😊
@@SalDiBlasi a guy can hope Lol
@@johnSR32 Make sure your floor is flat, that size tile requires perfect prep. 1/8" variation in 10' ,1/16" in 2' according to the TCNA
It's is no-brainer or i don't see any smart reason why NOT use tile leveling system on large format tiles.
Talk about putting your money where your mouth is. Awesome video, Sal! *Listen to Sal everyone!* If you hire someone who refuses to do *anything* Sal recommends, you should absolutely find someone else. If you think it's a hassle to fire someone before they do a hack job on your home, you won't believe the hassle after the fact.
Cheap leveler's with a curved bottom will pop lighter tile out of mortar. Non rectified tile should use 1/8" spacers along with (guessing, your 1/16") leveling system
Sal do you ever use leveling system for tiling shower
OMG, and here I was worrying about having a flat floor to accept the tiles and had simply assumed that since tiles were manufactured, that they would be perfectly flat. One more thing to keep me awake at night before my project starts...lol. Your video is so well made and so convincing. Thanks for taking the time to explain it all
Thanks, glad it helped
👍
The demonstration with those long format tiles was very helpful. Thanks!
21 year old apprentice atm here... Just want to say thanks for all these helpful tips sal. Some day I will be a great tiler just like you sir👍 best wishes and happy Easter man
Same to you, happy Easter.👍
Hey sal, which leveling system do you find to be the easiest to use? With the best results?
Theres a slight bow to the wall. Will leveling clips and back buttering help with this?
are levelers appropriate for a wall? can they used for 1/4 grout lines using 12 x20 tile around a shower?
Hi sal, thank you you’re the best, happy Easter to you and your family
Thanks, same to you.
Do we need to use the levelling system pliers or just push it in with one's fingers? Please I absolutely need an answer from an expert. Thank you
Hello from Korea, i studied in Washington state and now i work in interior tile in Korea. They work little differently here but still ur videos are very helpful! My sister studied in Boston so i visited there for few times, it would be really nice if i could see you work in real time! Thank you for the uploads!
I live just north of Boston, you never know I travel a few times a year, you never know where you might bump into me.
This guy got knee joints made out of titanium strenghted during 34 years😊
After watching Ur video i wanna buy those T tile leveling system for my new house in Jakarta...
Thanks!
Best of luck
Great video. Step One: Avoid buying really cheap tile.
Step 2: always buy leveling system. No matter how perfect your tiles, your floor or your thinset will always be imperfect. Self leveling systems save hours in reducing lippage on larger jobs, while providing a superior product. Only time to not use lippage system is on a small tile job with subway etc
Asked them to use this, said it wasn't needed then they screwed it up. 11:40 is also important
Tiles are not designed to flex. I could see them all cracking later on.
So it can’t really make your tiles level but can help prevent lips
There's an old adage about a town with 2 barbers , one is spotless and the other has hair all over the floor and is a mess, so the question is .. which one do you get your hair cut at? Obviously the messy one because that's where everyone in the town goes...
But now there is a new adage.. There are 2 tile guys , one has crap wood paneling on his office walls and the other has tile everywhere... who do you hire?
I'm going with the guy who is in such high demand that he doesn't have the time or the energy to tile his own walls!!! Sal is a tile G.O.A.T !!
😊👍
I love my leveling system! I correct my floors before I tile and then setting tile I use the proper trowel for coverage, I back butter all my tiles, I jog my tiles to make sure there is proper contact i butter a tiles if needed before I lock them down. The wedge system creates the 1/8” joint no more 3/16 spacers I get more done because I don’t have to play with the inconsistencies of the warped convex or concave fired tile anymore!
Exactly
I always dread hardwood tile because of this reason! weve seen so many "leaf springs" come out of chinese furnaces
Use quality tile.
excellent video sal, simply put, a leveling system is a must if your a professional tile setter, period!
Can you please tell me if a tile leveling system is usable for wavy or non smooth tile? I'm installing 12x24 tile with a wave pattern on it so the face plane of the tile will not be uniform. Is a tile leveling system still advised in this instance Sal? It will be on a shower wall installed vertical. Thank you for all your great videos!!
Yes, I have done it many times ua-cam.com/video/IhnSr49gSVw/v-deo.html
they should make tongue and groove tiles
They do. They sell them at home depot.
Sounds just like James Joseph(Tony Soprano)
Good work 👌🏻
They shouldn't allow bowed tiles in the market. The tile industry needs quality control so we don't have to waste money on leveling systems.
@Will Here It is not that they allow it it is inherent in the manufacturing process. Some are worse than others, the box stores and cheap tiles get the low quality tiles, because they want them cheap to sell them cheap. Here is an article for you to read. www.ceramictilefoundation.org/blog/ansi-standards-tile-installers-best-friend
@@SalDiBlasi Are you saying it's not possible for manufacturers to make flat tiles? I've installed 12 x 24 with 1/16 grout lines and 50% offset and it turned out perfect but that tile was of really high quality which is something rare to see nowadays and i would never attempt this again. The quality of tiles is going downhill and that's because manufacturers can get away with it.
@@johnSR32 So inserting a million clips, wedges, tightening them up with your hands and then using a plier to tighten them up is not time consuming? Lol Come on man, don't make me laugh. I'm not hating on clip users. You can use them and i use them in a few applications too but i don't think they're fast at all. I use them with long plank tiles because the tiles are so bowed out/crooked and a good leveling system does help in this situation but i don't use them with straight lay installs.
@@willhere8892 Don't need them on straight installs, but it does save time once you become proficient with them. So you're telling me you never adjust the amount of thinset under the tile to get a tile flush with the one next to it, and you have never gone back the next day to find that the thinset srank and the tiles were not even anymore. A leveling system will eliminate all that. Just remember it is a tool, use it when you need it, don't when it is not needed. I have had this discussion a million times, so I am not going to have it here again. Suffice to say, many are those that saw it your way and now use the tool regularly.
@@SalDiBlasi Regarding straight installs, whenever i'm doing large floors, i can lay around 300 - 500 sq ft by myself and when i use a leveling system i can only do 150 - 250 sq ft in a day, so i concluded a leveling system slows me down on large floors with straight installs. It seems to go just as fast on shower walls though. You can avoid the thinset shrinking by using the same amount of water for every bucket of thinset, using a lft thinset and or using the shimming technique.
Excellent video, super clear. I'm not sure if I'm going to need a leveling system for the tiles for my bathroom remodel which will use smaller tiles than what you show in the video (which is why I went hunting for videos), but I'm going to go ahead and buy a bunch of clips and wedges just in case I need them. Also, I was surprised to see how much porcelain tiles can be flexed! I had no idea.
How do you take the white things out once the thin set dries?
Hi Sal, I swear but levelling systems, it has moved my finish to the next level with my installs, thanks for all your videos you all have helped me up my game. Big 👍 from the uk
Good to hear.
Arron Mcmahon which ones do you use
Wow am a tiler from Uganda, this video has helped me alot, tho at first I did a bad job of which I didn't know about the leveling system and we didn't have it in our country by then
👍👍👍👍👍
Y not show how to remove on an actual job, personally there is to much wasted time , repeats to much. I still don't understand how much thinset to use when leveling is needed.
The tile should have trowel notch requirements such as 1/4" x 3/8" which are cut on it.
First you "butter" the floor with the straight side, then add more, flip to the notch side and scrape at 90 degrees to where the tile will be set.....you can never add too much as it forms the thin set mortar.
Then butter the tile, set it in place and move sideways a half inch and then back in place. This moves the mortar underneath and provides at least 90% adhesion with minimal air gaps.
You can check this by pulling up a tile and seeing how much spread and covering it has on both the tile and floor.
Then just scrap everything, repeat the process and reset the tile.
As for adding for leveling, just up the notch by the amount of offset lip.
8:33
Would you recommend using a leveling system for standard size tiles (specifically 4x10)?
Probably not
even if you raise one corner, the middle of the tile is still bowed and will stick up. you cant reshape the tile its going to stick up in the middle or the corner if its warped enough
Really ua-cam.com/video/ZAXL2_Y4dpQ/v-deo.html
Fantastic video but god it makes me cringe to see you sliding those rocks around your hardwood floors
Floor was not hardwood, but a laminate.
Don't stacker them in half. You should know that either.
It's a demonstartion.
Hey Sal, do you have a link for the video about the strategic method to use so you don't open up the grout joints? Thank you.
Thanks for taking the time to explain the tile leveling system.
Glad it was helpful!
Your the best
A crown in the floor may help the tile lippage lol
Thanks.........
Wow, thanks for this. I was wondering why the tile box said not to set it half way. Very good information here
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks
Rubbish. The tiles will eventually pop up
Nope
Thanks for your video How much level system I have to pour for tiles 7x24?
Sal, Thank you for the expert advice. If you have a moment, can you recommend a thin-set for large format wall tiles going over Schluter membrane. Last thing I saw, which was fairly old, was Tec Uncoupling Membrane Mortar. Thanks!
Schluter has their own thing now, Schluter Set which is unmodified, and Schluter Allset which is modified. Use these with your Schluter system and you can get a lifetime warranty.
Hey there. Im doing a 13' x 14" mudroom with 8"x8" tiles. Ditra is down, with a few mild bumps. Do I need to use Tile leveling clips for this size tile? Are they strickly for larger tiles?
No need for clips.
Terrific Sal. Thanks foe preparing.
Greetings from India
I have a question that
Is it really needed to use leveling clips for 2x4ft (600×1200)mm tiles?
Yes
What the levelling system has done is to bend the curved tile flat which has introduced a stress. There is a good chance the tile will crack.
Source?
@@entrepreneur724 As a professional engineer I'm using my knowledge of strength of materials. The tile is brittle and not ductile so is liable to fracture when subject to stress.
It's crap. Cool concept but it was time. From having to put all the wedges in to having to cut hard plastic pegs out of your grout joints. And when you go to kick them out you break the bond and end up with hollow tile.
Every word you said is incorrect.
This ignorant response proves you've never laid plank tile.
Laid plenty just hate these wedges
Please use knee pads Sal. Ouch! Great video👍
I have the best pads money can buy.
@@SalDiBlasi thank goodness. Went out and bought a MK101 wet saw last night. Remodeled our kitchen from top to bottom. I'll be doing the linear mosaic backsplash complete with schluter profile tonight. With all your videos/advice I feel confident that it will come out beautifully. Wish I could post pics on here but oh well. Have a blessed day
Good morning Sal, happy Easter to you and you're family!
Same to you and yours
@@SalDiBlasi I'm not a tiler but sometimes get asked to tile the odd bathroom floor and walls when installing new sanitaryware. With floor tiles displaying the amount of bow as shown here, when the clips are removed will the bond of the floor tile adhesive be strong enough to stop the tile springing up in the middle?
perfect explanation!
Thanks!
Is there a leveling system i can you for a 1/4grout line? I will instal 4x6 subway tiled but the cement wall is bumpy but i can level it.
Leveling systems are for larger tiles, not for subway tiles that small.Substrate should be flat before installing the tile.
Thanks for this video Sal. I live in the Phoenix AZ area and had 12x24 tiles installed by two different tile contractors (two different phases of the same job). Each said they do not use levelers, they use their level. The levelers take too much time. Well, as expected, when they were done lippage in a lot of places! So, how do I find a contractor who insists on using these levelers?
Ask a lot of questions and keep looking until you find the tile installer you like. Here are a couple of places to look www.tile-assn.com/default.aspx and www.ceramictilefoundation.org/
Simple ask it be put in the contract that they will use a leveling system. Anything that concerns you should be clearly and completely explained in the contract. Been doing contracting for a long time and a good contractor spells out the details of what they are doing and the steps and methods they will be using. If they won't put it in writing then you don't want to use them. And as always have someone present for the installation of any project like a floor to insure that they do as they contracted.
Always use a leveling system with large format tiles. I HAAAAAAATE lippy tile jobs.
😊👍
Let's assume perfect tiles....plumb / flat / etc....
Could a leveling system help overcome a substrate that isn't plumb flush or flat? Obviously, to a certain degree?
Leveling systems are not for fixing bad, wavy, uneven floors. They were not intended for that purpose.
Thank you for the reply .... I really enjoy your content.
what if they are pressed (non rectified) tiles. i bought wood plank tiles 6 x 36 that were warped. i tried using the 1/16 inch tile leveling system and it created a much bigger gap - almost 1/4 inch. how can i get these leveled and achieve 1/16 inch grout line?
THe grout line is determined by the variation in size of the tile, if the tiles are not very even in size, one tile is longer or wider than the next tile, then a ider grout line is required. What this means is that a 1/16" grout line may not be possible.
I wish my installer had done that. He only did it on a few plank tiles. If I knew about this I would have required that he use them or I wouldn't have hired him.
A lot of installers think they are a waist of time and that they are a gimmick, or that they pull the tile up out of the mortar. If they only understood the tool and what it can do.
Love your channel
😊👍
Thank you , Sal. A guy just did my floor with serious lippage. Found you the next day. THANK GOD
My mind was blown and educated at the same time. Excellent video. Thank you so much!
Glad it was helpful!
i always use levelers, use the home depot system the levelers are smaller
Learnt somethin here.. thankee sir..? Never knew why the hell people spent the money and time to shove those wedges in there laying tile... good deal pickle...
Glad to help
You the man Sal!!!
Have heard alot of veteran 20yr+ tilers say tileclips are for DIYers - I was only a tiler for 2 years but even I could see how wrong they are. Bad tradesmen find excuses, good tradesmen find solutions.
It is a tool to be used where it will help produce a better outcome. This a solution for good installers. Closed minded people find excuses to belittle things they don't understand.
Hahah, yesterday I chose a different tile at the last minute cause it was just so damn flat and square made the one I selected online look cheap, got a bit of sticker shock when I got home and looked at the invoice.... but I am still in love. I want to go really thin grout line, maybe 2mm, so scared the clips dont break off cleanly
Minimum grout line is 1/16" (2mm) and this video will help ua-cam.com/video/-Ey7V4o5OzE/v-deo.html
@@SalDiBlasi Will check it out... I've done my fair share of horrible tiling in my life, these days I keep the designs and layouts within my skill/tool set
Great video
Thanks!
Always good explanation Sal , always good to listen a real PRO. 👍
Much appreciated
Hey Sal, how do you protect your health while in this trade
The silica dust while tiling is crazy!
You only laid 4 tiles
Nobody can say that Sal Diblasi is not The Man when it comes to tiling! THANK YOU!!! A true master at his craft!
😊👍
How far are you pushing the wedges? Are you pushing the wedges as far in as you feel the tiles being flushed together?
Once you use the system, you will get a feel for it.
I agree the demonstration & explanation. Tell me what are the required tools & materials to install a perfect installation of tiles?
Same tools that you would normally use. Watch any one of my 900+ videos for detailed instructions on many aspects of tile.
Sal is the best!
😊👍
What’s a cheap tile for sal?
How do you determine grout size using these. Are you stuck having a grout size the thickness of this product?
You can use a spacer in conjunction with the leveling clips.
My thing is, eventually wont the tile want to return to that bow?
Great demonstration!
Do I need these for 6 x 24?
Im considering use a 35x12 3d textured tile (Emser NUOVO cube, to be exact) on the long wall of a shower as an accent wall. Which style lippage control system would you recommend? Please share if you have any experience with this type of tile.
T-Lock is my go to
Hi Sal, Happy Easter! Do you have any video on Mapei Ultracolor Plus FA? About to do my marble mosaic backsplash with 1/16 joints and 1x4 chevron and doing all the research I can to see best way to apply, or if I should switch products. Seems to set super fast.
The best thing you can do is read the directions on the container and follow them exactly, sorry don't have a video for that product.
Using the leveling system, is it possible to create voids under certain tiles causing problems later or not so much?
No, not a problem if tile is installed properly.
would I see benefits from using a leveling system on 12" X 12" tiles?
not really worth it, unless you are a novice at tile.
SAL thanks
😊👍
So basically you're flexing the tile!? Would that make it fail down the road?
Absolutely not.