I pulled the same crap on a dealer by saying ok your going to give me $7300 trade in, but I’m going to have to include my prep fee, by removing all my stuff and cleaning the car, destination fee, I bought the car to you. Document fee, I have the title. It stopped all the madness right there. Paid only for the car and tax and title minus the trade. It was hilarious.
After spending well over three hours on a used car deal, screwing around, purposely wasting their time with inspecting every inch of the car and nit pick negotiating every line of the deal we locked horns on the doc fee. I finally took the contract and put a line thru the doc fee, changed it to $0 as everything else had been negotiated to my satisfaction, said 'final offer" then showed them my list of 21 similar cars at nearby dealers. They refused. I got up to leave. Just before I walked out the door, they relented and sold a car that day. Always clear your days schedule and be prepared to walk out no matter how much time you have invested.
@@TheTrollMastah I don't get "a kick". I hate the process of buying a car. We are talking about car salesmen who are trained to rip you off. This is the reality of the car market. It they won't change their tactics, I will use whatever tactics to avoid being taken advantage of.
Don't buy their monthly subscription it's kinda worthless. They give suggested priced you should pay and it's usually like 1% lower. Maybe a few hundred bucks. It's stupid I feel like they're honestly just getting kick backs from the dealers or something to not suggest lower prices
Or a better interactive system to protect its individual citizens from non transparency actions. None of us are experts when starting anything new, then letting experts robbing citizens who just need a tool for transportation . this is not even including repairs scam from the dealerships. Not sure where accountability and responsibility stands.
Tried selling us a 19k car and OTDP was 24.5k. There were so many fees my head was spinning. Etching +$399, rear break pulse +$399, processing filing fees +$1k (not registration). They had enough fees on there for 10% of the cost of the car. They also had the audacity to lie that these are non-negotiable. It's crazy how much these dealerships are scamming people.
Love you guys the 4th wheel joke had me crying. Wish I had a dad like yours… smart, funny, and cool dude. You guys are my new favorite good time buddies.
PIPA = Personal Information Protection Act. Apparently it’s widely used in Canada and is a fee charged to allow the dealership to access and protect personal records…..pretty much a Doc fee.
Right…Canada has no personal privacy laws…a law that the penalty is a fine, is just for the poors. Apparently your personal information in canada is just a click and a credit card swipe away. What a hell hole
Actually it's called PIPEDA - The Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act. It covers accountability, identifying purposes, consent, limiting collection, limiting use, disclosure and retention, accuracy, safeguards, openness, individual access, challenging compliance. There is absolutely no valid reason for a dealership to have any more than you basic info about your name, address, driver's license number, etc. for registration and license plates. There are no documents a dealer has to pay access for in order to sell a car. Other than destination and PDI charges, the dealer can try to impose all the fees they want but if you don't agree to pay them they can keep the cars on their lot till their bank repos them.
I just bought a used car. They gave me all the prices I wanted, ( the next day after I walked away and went home ) would not remove the DOC free. Told them I would not pay it. They reduced the selling price by the same amount to offset the fee. Probably hurts the salesman but in the end I didn't technically pay it. There are a couple dealers here who don't charge it, but they didn't have a suv I wanted. My tag was transferred over via computer in 5 minutes, while in the finance office. Took about 20 minutes total in the finance office, I bought nothing extra, just the car.
I know in Florida if they put those fees on one vehicle they have to put it on all of them legally. Same to remove them. So it’s easier to negotiate the price if at all possible.
@@vinnyzanetti8036 yes, but i got the selling priced reduce to under value so they charged it but i didn't pay above value. technically yes but in practice no.
I've never had a problem with the doc fee's when you're willing to walk away because of them. On the last purchase they gave me their best price and I gave them what I was willing to pay, minus the doc fee, and told them to "give me a call" if we had a deal. Got a call the next day to come get the car at my price. Doc fee's, imho, are like prep fee's and they should be rolled over into the purchase price of the car and not an add on. And, yes, you can usually negotiate the doc fee amount off the purchase price if you're polite and willing to buy.
I was just shopping with my Friend who needs a new Honda CRV. She totaled her last one in an accident. Scott Honda in West Chester Pa tried to charge her $2000 for a dealer package including nitrogen in the tires 🛞. Then they wanted $2000 for market adjustment. They only had one new 2024 CRV on the lot. They ended up coming down $500 on the package and $1000 off of the market adjustment. They acted like they were doing us a favor. Now she is looking at Ourisman Honda in MD that has plenty of CRVs and no mark ups.
I ran into the same BS tactics at a Honda dealer in the Midwest about a year ago, and walked out & took any Honda product off of my list of cars to consider.
How do you go about ordering your own car online? I would love to do that! I have horrible anxiety over buying a new car. Mine was just totaled by a deer incident, so I know I'm going to have to get something soon.
I know you can get like custom corvettes by go to their website, I am sure most cars are the same. You still (legally) have to go through a dealer, but you don’t have to pay for all the BS bells and whistles the manufacturers tack on trying to make their basic bitch cars “luxury”
Thank you for the video! Very good info. This is exhausting, im 57 and my 98 Dodge Grand caravan blew a head gasket. She had over 233,000 miles on her. I can't get anyone to fix her, So ive been looking for a car for 3 months and its tearing my nerves apart. Btw, Uber isnt cheap . Anywho, I will find something soon, Peace and Love to everybody out there. Stay safe.
I just bought a Camry yesterday and the only other fee then the msrp and ttl was a 150$ doc fee. 29000 otd for a 2024 Camry seems like a steal! Especially since it came with an unlimited time and miles power train warranty! Toyota of Denton Texas!
Enjoy your videos. Lots of good info. Suggestion for the future - How to “order” the exact car you want. I’m driving a 2018 Mustang that I ordered from Ford, it was a 15 month process. On the up side when I signed the final sales contract, there was some sort of Ford Loyalty Program credit for $2,250! I asked the salesman what it was, since I had never owned a Ford product. He replied, Don’t ask, Don’t tell 🤠
I had doc fees removed when I told the dealer I would handle going to the tax office and DMV myself. Best part was, they are both in the same place and handled by the same person. Took me 30 minutes total.
@@dontdoxmebro What state is this? I have not found any state which requires the dealer to handle the titling and registration of a new vehicle. Even if a dealer is required to provide this service it is part of the cost of doing business for the dealer and should not be paid by the customer in addition to the price paid for the vehicle. Typically new car dealers will handle the title and registration for the customer. This is done as a curtesy to the customer, is done in the F&I office while the customer is finalizing the dealer, and is a minor cost of the dealer cost of doing business. As with any cost of doing business, the dealer's minor cost related to this is part of the selling price. It should not be a separate charge. The total cost to the dealer for this curtesy is probably no more than $50, certainly not the hundreds of dollars many dealers try to scam their customers into paying.
@@jerrylundegaard2592 thank you for sharing so you got your own title and registered your own car? Is that the reason for the doc fee , just title and registration?
@@goddessnefertari_ OK, here we go. Car dealers sell at a price. Price includes all costs plus dealer profit. The very minor costs associated with those documents are essentially for action done in the F&I office where the smarmy F&I manager finalizes the deal. That, my friend, is a dealer cost. Hence those very minor costs are part of the price. That, my friend, is basic cost accounting. That is why some states, such as Maryland, state the doc fee charged by a car dealer is not required by law. It is purely a decision by the car dealer to attempt to increase profit. Dealers know many car buyers will negotiate the price and then simply pay the doc fee. For those of us who understand, we don't pay those fake fees. It is amusing to note, in some states dealers think those doc actions cost less than $100 while in others, such as Florida, it costs dealers $1,000 or so. I wonder what Florida dealers are doing that costs so much money? Dealers have far larger costs to do business than the costs associated with those documents. You know costs such as wages, facilities, utilities, insurance, and on and on and on. So tell us why dealers do not attempt to charge over price for those costs? Even if a car buyer concludes paying an amount to a dealer to send the paper work, usually in a batch, to the DMV justifies an additional amount, do you think that amount should be several hundred or more dollars? At best that effort is worth no more than $50. In the end, those doc fees along with any dealer fee which is taxed is nothing more than a dealer ploy to increase profit and to increase visits by advertising a lower price while hiding the fake fees in the very small print. And now you know.
First red flag is not having prices on the vehicles windshields. Just got a new one for 1k off msrp dealer mis labeled it, and rhey gave me way more than i expected fkr my trade. Literally the best car buying experience of my life. I saw a different dealer list online 4k under invoice... With 3939 doc fee on the vehicle 9x the max allowed by state law lol
I went to go look at a used acura in a used car lot. It was an hour away from my house. it was online and I wanted to test drive the car. I called a head of time to make sure they still had the car available and to see if I can test drive the car today. I was told yes for both. Now I seen from your website it was there for around 100 days. So I knew it wasn't going anywhere fast. Well now I know why. The car doesn't have a battery in it. And the owner doesn't want to put it in for me to test drive the acura. Then the sales guy wanted me to look at minivans instead of the car I wanted to look at. The lost a potential buyer for sure.
Thanks to your channel, I rejected an offer on a car that had all sorts of junk fees, and on another, all fees are grouped together and come to $264. Price, tax, that fee and that's it. Boom. Thank you, CarEdge, for saving us thousands!
Saw a Kia Carnival $3,000 off MSRP at dealer. I ask OTD: Here’s what they say: Here is an approximate pricing breakdown for this vehicle. This quote includes our Kia Care protection which includes two years maintenance, three years wheel and tire road hazard protection and three years key replacement coverage. MSRP: $37,220 Orr Kia Discount -$3,000 Kia Care: $2,995 Approximate TT&L: 4,013 Total: $41,233 Later I ask them to get to 32,000 sell price and remove Kia Care. They say Kia Care is mandatory. So they mark down cars on website and make it up with that. Guy said “you do save $5 off MSRP when it’s all said and done.” LOL
So, was pretty proud of myself last night and it has to do with your videos and other videos as research. Bought a couple used cars before, but this was my first time shooting for a new one. Walked in, stated I wanted a new car but I'm between a few SUVs. I like THIS one, but let's see what you can do for me first. "I dont like these added prices, what can you do for me because they immediately disinterest me." Long story short, got the price down below invoice price AFTER taxes/fees.
I drove a 2024 Trax Activ Cacti Green at a local Chevrolet dealership. First the online price was less than the MSRP at the store plus an added 700 $ for all weather mats that wasn’t on the Maroney sticker. They wouldn’t negotiate on anything stating it was an economy vehicle so there wasn’t any profit margin. Needless to say I thanked them and walked away
people are walking away big time now thats why there a year sypply of many cars now , we got 1 dealer who ownd 62+ stores in fl and hopfully he goes under she was the most agregious i ever saw
the trax have little to no room for negotiation. the dealership my gf bought one had no add one at all. eveyrhing straight from manufacturer. they still got it under msrp
He has stated many times in various videos he has been advocating for change in the automotive industry for a long time. That’s why he started this channel.
Hi Mr Dreyfuss I'm old enough to remember you in " JAWS " and " American Graffiti " I didn't realize that you went on to become an Auto Salesman. THANK YOU and your son for all of the TIPS!!! ;-)
Doc fees on new vehicles are a recent phenomenon, though they've been around for awhile now on used cars. Just a way to be able to advertise a falsely low price. Similar to the rip-off "resort fees" at hotels.
I found a sales contract on an early 70s mustang with a "doc fee." but back then, it was $7 on a $4,000 car. problem is, the "doc fee" has grown at 10 times the rate of the price of the car. "doc fees" are now $700 on a $40,000 car.
You will only find Dealer Prep fees at powersports shops. I worked at a PowerSports store that sold Slingshots and we would have to literally finish putting the thing together when it came off the delivery truck. They only came like 90% together so they could fit on the truck. The same goes for dirt bikes, atv’s, motorcycles - they have to be assembled upon delivery.
I had a Toyota dealer try to charge me $350 for floor mats. I asked if they can take the floor mats out and the salesman told me the vehicle had to come with floor mats. I ended up not buying the car because of it. Why would I pay $350 for something I could get for 50 bucks?
It wasn't the dealer charging you for mats. The all weather mats were put in the vehicle at the port before it was sent to the dealership, meaning that the mats were listed on the Monroney label & thus are required by law to be included with the sale of the vehicle.
Ohio buyer here, As of yesterday I’ve secured my own financing through a credit union. The gal said don’t let the dealership add a doc fee as we do our own document processing for you and we do not charge. I look forward to having the doc few talk with the dealership once I decide on a vehicle to negotiate
This is one reason why people hate the car buying process. Bought a car a few years ago and every stop of the process they added a new hidden fee. Worst experience I've ever had. Been checking out your new site and hope to use it for my next purchase!
Really just get otdp and subtract bs fees from the total. That's basically your offer to them. They can take it or you walk out. And as said in video feel free to negotiate things like paint protection or whatever. If you can't come to agreement then have them take off those options. One thing I'm for is the undercarriage protection.
Not telling the dealership you are paying cash till the end insures they will not tell you the real price till the end=fact. With the ftc warning all of us shoppers with the existance of the CARS rule, its best to assume that dealerships are still posting low bait prices designed to get you in their doors and not thier competitors doors so to ensure that you do not fall victim to a bait pricing dealership, its to your best interest to contact all dealerships with the similar vehicle and wrestle the true price you must pay with cash before you visit any of them, -- Dealer A with a price of 37119 looks lower than Dealer B wih a price of 40995-- its not until you contact both do you find out that dealers a adds almost 5k of hidden charges for items you dont want resulting in a total of 42119 and dealer B will come down to 39850 and let you write a check this was a recent deal by the way
hmm... like your style gentlemen. don't know how much of this is applicable to the canadian marketplace , but i like your style none the less. keep it up, and i'll keep watching.
Planning to buy my first new car very soon I have printed out the build I want with all of the Msrp prices of the add ons I want. Thank you guys for sharing this useful information to help me not get scammed
Hi Zach & Ray people should hear/know about this shady dealership in NJ. My son who's 24 and I went to a Hyundai dealership and I asked for the out the door price. When the salesperson came back the price was almost $6,000 more than what the internet advertised price was. This was because he added $3,495 Certified pre-owned certification fee(CPO)??? This is actually a 10 year or 100,000 mile warranty, $1,000 non-Military fee and $1,000 Loyalty fee! The salesperson said because we WEREN'T Military it an extra 1K and an extra 1K because we had never bought a car with them before. This makes me mad 😡because those two are discounts you give to people who are eligible for them, these should not be a PENALTY or actually and excuse to just raise the price. I told the salesperson that we don't want the CPO we don't want because that's a warranty, but he said no thanks for the CPO - warranty. Saleman said "We only sell our cars with the CPO certification fee". Those two fee are the CPO is something you think about possibly getting a warranty with the finance office in the back. They are trying to do "Tied Selling" or bundling products as a force add-on 🤬
Went to a Toyota dealership earlier this week. There was a $699 key insurance fee added on. They are only giving one key right now. For that $699 they will replace your key for free if you lose your one key!
Was that a new or a used vehicle? If used it means they didn't get the second key. If new, there should have been a second key. The cost of the car should have been reduced by the amount of the key cost.
I ordered a car at Classic Chevrolet in Grapevine, TX. Charged me 1k over MSRP for nitro tires, GPS, and tint. Held my car hostage because I balked at paying it. Wasn’t included nor negotiated when I ordered the car. Basically said they couldn’t sell me the car without it. They included it in “ALL” new cars.
Had a dealership in Vegas do the samething. They had some werid security device in all their new vehicles. I was like why was this there? And they charged for having backup cameras. I said we'll that's federal gov safety so that's standard. Walked away from getting a truck. The general manager calls me asking about my visit. I said quote basically running a scam on this. He sounded mad. Calls back later apologizes but says he can't drop the price of the device. I said bye
All powersports besides msrp they charges destination and prep, most of those vehicles come in a box with roof off, suspension compressed, even some comes with a blank ecm and key and need a reflash.
Yeah, they were way off the mark on this one. The destination and prep fees are listed on all the powersports manufacturers' websites, separate from the msrp.
My experience with "Doc fees" is similar. I have had several dealers that lowered our negotiated price to cover it and it remained a line item. What is absurd is the amount some dealers expect to get. At $199 they are ripping you off but I have seen some asking for $999. In reality they are simply charging you to do a bill of sale. How many people would be willing to go to Best Buy and have them charge you an extra $10 to give you a bill of sale on your new TV??
April 2020, I bought a 2020 Mustang 5.0 Premium for about $60,000.. no interest 6-year contract, nothing down, no trade in, they didn't want to see any docs on proof of income, and based on about 720 credit reports, still below MSRP..
I was told by a dealer salesman that DOC fees were sold as documentation fees but that DOC really meant, "Dealership Owner's Commission" and represented the dealership owner's cut of the sale, above any other baked in dollars that were part of the final negotiated price. A guaranteed amount of money for the dealership owner.
When I started selling Fords in June 1973, the doc fee was $29 and we were terrified that customers would balk. Over the decades, the rule of thumb would be "whatever the market would bear" became the doc fee add on price. Cheers 😎
In my recent car purchasing experience at this dealership, the sales process was standard with the expected negotiations. However, significant dissatisfaction arose during the finance stage. The finance representative incorporated undisclosed fees into the contract, which became apparent only upon reviewing the documents post-purchase. While the sales manager rectified the situation, the lack of transparency in the finance department was highly unethical.
The ram 1500 Laramie 2020 cost us 45000 with a MSRP of 50000. W hen I went to trade it in july of 2023 they wanted for the same truck $41500 more than my truck with only 30000 and in excellent condition. I told them we always traded every 3 years but to buy a 70000 or 80000 truck that someone opens a car on would make me very upset. I told them no truck is worth that amount of money and I'll drive my truck till it won't run and left.
Today i went to jenkins kia of ocala to purchase a a 2024 carnival that I saw on their website. The price on the internet is 34,000 and I confirmed it with chat rep. I got to dealer and the sticker price was 48k. Manager said it had a lot of extras so I told them I didn't want all the extras and I wanted the OTD price. He came up with 35k. Them he came back and said his boss said he couldn't remove the dealer package fee of $2098 . I was so annoyed. I walked away and said tell your boss he just lost a customer
Dealer prep is checking all fluid levels,peel off plastic coating on car if there is any,make sure it runs ok and no lights on dash,takes 15 min out the door.
It's different for a motorcycle though, as those come in a crate and actually need to be assembled; they were wrong about that charge being bs for the Slingshot.
WA law requires the document fee be negotiable. I've never paid it; draw a line through it immediately. I had one dealer ask what I was doing, and when I said state law says that's a negotiable fee, he said, "Fine; let's negotiate it." I said, "No." But I find that most people don't even question the various fees they're shown.
Every mfg adds freight on top of MSRP. It is a clear line item on the window sticker. Haven’t seen one yet that includes it in MSRP. Also, you need to add tax and titling. Those are all additive. Now, that doesn’t mean you can’t negotiate down to the final OTD price.
Bro we use to get paid 0.5 hr to pdi a new vehicle. Which Included taking the plastic off the seats, steering and rims/hubcaps. And driving it around the block and setting the clock. Lol
I recently went to a dealership test drove 3 cars that I was interested in & noticed on the window sticker of car I was particularly interested in1) price was manufactured price $30k 2)was all the additional options(added $7k) reading on the line items of the additional charge was like a $300 charge for heated wiper blades, I told them I didn't need it they told me " it can't be taken off" of course I question them & they had no real answer to why it couldn't come off they jus said it jus can't. So no deal was made & they had the look of disappointment on there face as my bf & I walked out the door. I most certainly was not gonna pay over $40k for a chevy equinox LT & that's with a trade in. 😂😂
The PIPA probably stands for the PERSONAL INFORMATION PRIVACY ACT, a government program that retailers have to follow and dealers can charge a reasonable fee for you to access your info. They probably pay some file clerk $15. an hour to find it.
There is no such thing as a "reasonable fee" for a dealer to comply with PIPA. That compliance is simply a cost of doing business. It is not a cost to the car buyer. Please identify the legal or regulatory item specifying dealer's may charge a fee for compliance with PIPA?
I checked out a car last week i really wanted . Price was $43k , the salesman came back with a number of giving it to me at “invoice “so $40.5k then like $6,500 in fees . He wouldn’t let me take a pic of the numbers cause i wanted to look at it. He said cause of ftc rules he couldn’t let me so i said ok and walked out
Funny how there was a $1500 dealer prep fee when buying my wifes used vehicle. I told them I would walk if they tried to include it. the salesman said "I'll see what we can do but usually we don't take this off" I said okay well it's a deal breaker sorry. no more than literally 5 minutes it was taken off.
I’m not joking I bought a used crappy Nissan Versa Note and the guy in the finance office tried to sell me life insurance. I said “Jeez how unsafe is this POS?”
In vermont most fees are supposed to be part of the advertised price by the vt attorney general consumer assistance program. Have you heard of this in other states?
Discrimination if I don't make you pay doc fee? GTFOOH. Biggest bull crap that I've ever heard. Then they can use that excuse on all their other fees. At this point, we're all better off going to bikes and horses, just to watch them all go bankrupt
Thank you, gentlemen, I am heading up to the Subaru dealer tomorrow to negotiate a deal. I can tell you already their MSRP & the number on the sticker do not match, they added in the delivery/destination fee & called it MSRP. But I am armed with knowledge (watched many of your videos), I have a good down payment & a good trade in (Kia & Carmax have already offered between 8K-10K for my vehicle). Will let you know how it goes.
So...I got my Subaru Forester, $3400 under MSRP, free upgrade to auto dimming mirrors & a couple of other things. They are paying the doc fees & threw in dings & dents and tires & wheels. Got $8500 for my trade in & I was offered 0% financing for 60 months with no prepay penalties.
doc fees vary by state.......here in NJ, I saw one Subaru dealership with a doc fee of $595, and another with a doc fee of $899.......its true that can't take it off by law, but as stated in the video you can ask the dealer to make it up somewhere else, and not necessarily the entire doc fee, but say half or some portion of it.
Im not sure on the slingshot but most motorcycles are shipped in a crate and need to be assembled. My cousin owns a motorcycle dealership and sold me my bikes at his costs, if I put it together myself it saved me money, the manufacturer did not pay for the assembly, the dealership had to pay there people to do it and do a test ride. He never overcharged people but in order for the warrantee to be valid it had to be a dealership mechanic doing the assembly. He never ever charger freight costs as it was as you say included in the MSRP.
That's still a bit shady. You have to pay an additional fee for the assembly of the new vehicle you purchased. That's like a bakery charging you assembly fees for combining the eggs, flour, sugar and milk to make your cake, a mixing/baking fee and boxing addendem. These fees are ridiculous. And, to withhold your manufacturer's warranty if you don't pay the ransom to release your caged vehicle, sounds nearly illegal. Sounds like these industries are dishonest. Just put the cost in the price and be done with it.
Hmmm... How interesting if one required a sales rep to watch this video. "Hey Sales Rep Bob, Could you help me out? I really need your thoughts on this video." Question is, ask "Bob" prior to one's negotiation, or after being presented a BS worksheet, like the fine lads here discussed :)
Yeah, I had this argument with dealers before... destination fee for a car that is ON THE LOT is bull, and anything for 'prep' or detailing on a NEW car is also crap.
I’ve asked for OTDP Somehow I expected a lot more numbers on the document. When you do ask for OTDP the dealer is assuming I’m paying cash when I’ve actually gone through my credit union.
we were asked for $1,500 fee for paying cash on an used car (That they gently will take off as a discount ) at the end other fees that added up around $7,000 to the price asked. so a $27,000 used car ended up at $34,000 insane!!!! we walked away.
If the Stealership claims to have 'reconditioned' a car, two things I'd like to know is: what is their definition of "reconditioning" and where is the line-item invoice of the parts and labor involved? I entered a rental where the Scamlord advertised that the kitchen had been "renovated". What the liar meant by that is that he had repainted the early to mid 90's cabinets once again. Perhaps by "renovated", he meant that he's repainted them to the point where you can see that too many coats had been left on from all of previous "renovations" so it starts looking like h pained with caulk, since he didn't have enough left to caulk the bathtub...
I always show my clients the service R.O. of our reconditioning. We generally spend $1,200 to $2,000 per car in recon.. Please don’t compare my cars to the hovels that are in your budget. CIAO!!
Yep if the problem is if you're after a vehicle that is in high demand for example a Toyota Prius Prime which has an at least a 1 to 2 year wait time then you're kind of stuck paying top dollar if you want one. Basically you're lucky to get out of it without paying anything after what is showing as advertised on Toyotas website when you build the car. It's the first time ever I've gone to a dealership and have never negotiated on a car price they know they will sell them so it's kind of take it or leave it.
Many years ago I bought a used car and as the salesman was going over the charges he said "rent fee $250" . I stopped him and asked him what that was. He said oh don't worry about that we charge that fee on all cars we sell. I kept pressing him and he said well when a person buys a car we charge a fee for every day that it has sat on our lot. Kind of like renting a space for the car to sit on until it's bought. I said "H$# no I won't pay that! I said I'd walk out the door before I'd pay a BS charge like that. He took it off.
I just looked a truck last night, I am just looking for a cheap truck, I know ha ha. Anyway it was marked at 12.999. we took it for a test drive and it drove pretty good for a 2007 with 88,000 miles on it. the cruse control did not work and the heater core seamed to have a leak according to me and my wife’s nose, plus a few other little things. But the heater core was the deal breaker for me. (heater cores are a major pain to get to) But we decided to see what their offer was. I did not think to ask, what their interest rate was, because when they came back whit 325 a month for 84 months. I said we’re out. That in my opinion, (10,000 dollar truck) would have cost me 28,800 over the life of the loan. and that was with 2.000 down. That would be nearly triple what it is really worth.
In canada as far back as I can remember freigh, pdi, gas tax were always on the window sticker. way back in the day you usually negotiated most of this stuff away, but they were always treated as if it was part of MSRP. I'm sure there were people who ended up paying it though. and now I guess because of low inventory and cars flying off the lot the dealers are just trying to make people eat it. I've given up on buying any car right now. I have a 12 year old Nissan altima (purchased new) that I'm probably going to drive into the ground because cars are too expensive now and I'm too tired to play games.
Read every line item!!they tried to add a 300.00 coupon book for discounts on maintenance I do myself anyway.by the time I financed it it would have been 600.00 for a coupon book I'd never use.I made them take it off and redo the whole loan.motorcycles have to be put together at the dealership so I understand a few bucks for that but destination fee? don't get it to it's destination and see how it works out for ya.not my problem to get it there.I lease a new acadia for few years for 400 and month for when I need to go somewhere special otherwise I drive my 99 F-150.last time I swapped out they tried to sell me a policy to cover any damages when I turn it in at the end of the lease, I said uuuuugghh I think that's why I have full coverage through state farm already,it never ends!! but if you don't drive a lot you can lease for half what it cost to buy with the option to buy at the end of the lease.I haven't had a car out of warranty or even bought a set of tires for my car in 15 years and I update to the latest technology and safety features every three years.for 400 a month.
Last week I bought a used car and the first dealership I went to tried to make us pay a non optional $4,000 “certification charge” which was essentially to cover the cost of them restoring the car when it was traded in, plus an included 1 year warranty…. Non negotiable. we walked
Buying cars shouldn’t be this tricky and complicated in this day and age. I guess this would decimate your business model but we need the dealership model to be deprecated. Buy direct and have authorized service centers.
Love your channel - Quick question. I am looking at a window sticker 2023 Chevy Colorado Z71 and noticed the Options and Pricing portion that raised a few red flags. There was an "Options Installed by Manufacturer" and then "Dealership Installed." Are both of these items negotiable or just the add on from the Dealership? I get the, "IF its taxable its negotiable" but all of the listed add on from one or the other is confusing. Also, MSRP on the sticker shows $40,200k and with all the options factored in - Total comes to $46,780 + a Destination fee of $1595 bucks on a separate line item of $46,780 bringing the grand total to $48,375.
I can testify that most of what they mentioned is a rip off (I work for a dealership.) I work for a dealership that doesn't do this stuff so I actually love when other dealerships do this stuff because it gives me free reign to instill doubt in other dealerships.
Florida has the worst doc fee. $1900+, the doc fee and other fees came out to the same as the amount paid in sales tax. I refused to buy a car that was in Florida after talking to dealers about this.
Will the price on very popular vehicles like a rav4 or crv continue to drop even though they are still in demand and can I still negotiate on a popular vehicle like that?
Of course, it doesn't matter what vehicle or anything. You can always negotiate anything on anything whether they like it or not. I have a 2015 crv EXL with 59k miles on it and I still owe 14.4k left and dealers won't pay it off even tho it is very very low miles for the year and in maculate condition inside and out. I had a dealer try to give me 12.5 on it and I walked out. I need my previous loan paid off before I get a new one. So I will keep holding off until they realize how much they need the vehicle more then I do.
I pulled the same crap on a dealer by saying ok your going to give me $7300 trade in, but I’m going to have to include my prep fee, by removing all my stuff and cleaning the car, destination fee, I bought the car to you. Document fee, I have the title. It stopped all the madness right there. Paid only for the car and tax and title minus the trade. It was hilarious.
hell yes! This is what im saying!
That was great negotiating. I wish you had made a video of that.
I’ll have to remember that! Thanks!
@@robertgarrett7007 How? It never actually happened.
So good. 🤣
After spending well over three hours on a used car deal, screwing around, purposely wasting their time with inspecting every inch of the car and nit pick negotiating every line of the deal we locked horns on the doc fee.
I finally took the contract and put a line thru the doc fee, changed it to $0 as everything else had been negotiated to my satisfaction, said 'final offer" then showed them my list of 21 similar cars at nearby dealers. They refused. I got up to leave.
Just before I walked out the door, they relented and sold a car that day.
Always clear your days schedule and be prepared to walk out no matter how much time you have invested.
Excellent. Glad to read you won that battle.
This is sooo shitty. Why am I gonna have to do this lol. I wish we could just cut the bs and get a fair deal. I'm buying my first car soon.
@@mushroomzulu we didn’t start this battle. Just remember they wanted this when they started be shifty, now we gotta get swifty in here
Why waste everyone’s time like that? Like for reals you get a kick out wasting people’s time? What a loser. Most salespeople are just trying to get by
@@TheTrollMastah I don't get "a kick". I hate the process of buying a car. We are talking about car salesmen who are trained to rip you off. This is the reality of the car market. It they won't change their tactics, I will use whatever tactics to avoid being taken advantage of.
I’ve been ripped off so bad in the dealers that I can now feel empowered to do better when buying, thanks to you guys.
dont forget they are like predators if you seem like you have a weak personality they can still get over on you
Don't buy their monthly subscription it's kinda worthless. They give suggested priced you should pay and it's usually like 1% lower. Maybe a few hundred bucks. It's stupid I feel like they're honestly just getting kick backs from the dealers or something to not suggest lower prices
Or a better interactive system to protect its individual citizens from non transparency actions. None of us are experts when starting anything new, then letting experts robbing citizens who just need a tool for transportation . this is not even including repairs scam from the dealerships. Not sure where accountability and responsibility stands.
Like fr
Tried selling us a 19k car and OTDP was 24.5k. There were so many fees my head was spinning. Etching +$399, rear break pulse +$399, processing filing fees +$1k (not registration). They had enough fees on there for 10% of the cost of the car. They also had the audacity to lie that these are non-negotiable. It's crazy how much these dealerships are scamming people.
Your business is negotiable. If they're not willing, then you're out the door, peace!
Back in 1972 the Toyota dealer charged a $15 doc fee that my dad argued against for a half hour. And they eventually took it off.
are your dad and my dad related. LOL!!!!!!
Sounds like my dad at the farmers' market haggling over 10 cents a pound for bananas if he buys the whole case lol.
Love this
Love you guys the 4th wheel joke had me crying. Wish I had a dad like yours… smart, funny, and cool dude. You guys are my new favorite good time buddies.
PIPA = Personal Information Protection Act. Apparently it’s widely used in Canada and is a fee charged to allow the dealership to access and protect personal records…..pretty much a Doc fee.
Right…Canada has no personal privacy laws…a law that the penalty is a fine, is just for the poors. Apparently your personal information in canada is just a click and a credit card swipe away. What a hell hole
Actually it's called PIPEDA - The Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act. It covers accountability, identifying purposes, consent, limiting collection, limiting use, disclosure and retention, accuracy, safeguards, openness, individual access, challenging compliance. There is absolutely no valid reason for a dealership to have any more than you basic info about your name, address, driver's license number, etc. for registration and license plates. There are no documents a dealer has to pay access for in order to sell a car. Other than destination and PDI charges, the dealer can try to impose all the fees they want but if you don't agree to pay them they can keep the cars on their lot till their bank repos them.
I just bought a used car. They gave me all the prices I wanted, ( the next day after I walked away and went home ) would not remove the DOC free. Told them I would not pay it. They reduced the selling price by the same amount to offset the fee. Probably hurts the salesman but in the end I didn't technically pay it. There are a couple dealers here who don't charge it, but they didn't have a suv I wanted. My tag was transferred over via computer in 5 minutes, while in the finance office.
Took about 20 minutes total in the finance office, I bought nothing extra, just the car.
I know in Florida if they put those fees on one vehicle they have to put it on all of them legally. Same to remove them. So it’s easier to negotiate the price if at all possible.
You technically paid it
@@vinnyzanetti8036 yes, but i got the selling priced reduce to under value so they charged it but i didn't pay above value.
technically yes but in practice no.
I've never had a problem with the doc fee's when you're willing to walk away because of them. On the last purchase they gave me their best price and I gave them what I was willing to pay, minus the doc fee, and told them to "give me a call" if we had a deal. Got a call the next day to come get the car at my price. Doc fee's, imho, are like prep fee's and they should be rolled over into the purchase price of the car and not an add on. And, yes, you can usually negotiate the doc fee amount off the purchase price if you're polite and willing to buy.
I was just shopping with my Friend who needs a new Honda CRV. She totaled her last one in an accident. Scott Honda in West Chester Pa tried to charge her $2000 for a dealer package including nitrogen in the tires 🛞. Then they wanted $2000 for market adjustment. They only had one new 2024 CRV on the lot. They ended up coming down $500 on the package and $1000 off of the market adjustment. They acted like they were doing us a favor. Now she is looking at Ourisman Honda in MD that has plenty of CRVs and no mark ups.
I appreciate you telling us where the mischief is happening.
I ran into the same BS tactics at a Honda dealer in the Midwest about a year ago, and walked out & took any Honda product off of my list of cars to consider.
@@dalbriggss We ended up getting her a CRV @ Ourisman Honda in MD. They came in $1500 below MSRP. It was a 3hr round trip but worth the time.
Watch them in Md they try to mark up with freight
No one needs a new Honda.
This is why I've never bought a new car on the dealer lot and have always ordered it. You get to choose what options you want and save thousands.
How do you go about ordering your own car online? I would love to do that! I have horrible anxiety over buying a new car. Mine was just totaled by a deer incident, so I know I'm going to have to get something soon.
How do you go about ordering a new car online instead of getting it off the lot?
I know you can get like custom corvettes by go to their website, I am sure most cars are the same. You still (legally) have to go through a dealer, but you don’t have to pay for all the BS bells and whistles the manufacturers tack on trying to make their basic bitch cars “luxury”
Nonsense.
Thank you for the video! Very good info. This is exhausting, im 57 and my 98 Dodge Grand caravan blew a head gasket. She had over 233,000 miles on her. I can't get anyone to fix her, So ive been looking for a car for 3 months and its tearing my nerves apart. Btw, Uber isnt cheap . Anywho, I will find something soon, Peace and Love to everybody out there. Stay safe.
I just bought a Camry yesterday and the only other fee then the msrp and ttl was a 150$ doc fee. 29000 otd for a 2024 Camry seems like a steal! Especially since it came with an unlimited time and miles power train warranty! Toyota of Denton Texas!
Le? Or se
Prolly CD for chepo deluxe 😂😂😂
Hey, I lived in Denton, TX. Good luck with Camry.
Camry is the most reliable and popular midsize car in America. Great job.
@@Jason_The_Man Even with soy covered electrical wiring...and self deploying air bags...and self engaging gas pedal... ?
Enjoy your videos. Lots of good info. Suggestion for the future - How to “order” the exact car you want. I’m driving a 2018 Mustang that I ordered from Ford, it was a 15 month process. On the up side when I signed the final sales contract, there was some sort of Ford Loyalty Program credit for $2,250! I asked the salesman what it was, since I had never owned a Ford product. He replied, Don’t ask, Don’t tell 🤠
I had doc fees removed when I told the dealer I would handle going to the tax office and DMV myself. Best part was, they are both in the same place and handled by the same person. Took me 30 minutes total.
It my state you don’t have a choice the dealer has to do it for you.
@@dontdoxmebro What state is this?
I have not found any state which requires the dealer to handle the titling and registration of a new vehicle. Even if a dealer is required to provide this service it is part of the cost of doing business for the dealer and should not be paid by the customer in addition to the price paid for the vehicle.
Typically new car dealers will handle the title and registration for the customer. This is done as a curtesy to the customer, is done in the F&I office while the customer is finalizing the dealer, and is a minor cost of the dealer cost of doing business.
As with any cost of doing business, the dealer's minor cost related to this is part of the selling price. It should not be a separate charge. The total cost to the dealer for this curtesy is probably no more than $50, certainly not the hundreds of dollars many dealers try to scam their customers into paying.
@@dontdoxmebroDon't buy in your state then
@@jerrylundegaard2592 thank you for sharing so you got your own title and registered your own car? Is that the reason for the doc fee , just title and registration?
@@goddessnefertari_ OK, here we go.
Car dealers sell at a price. Price includes all costs plus dealer profit. The very minor costs associated with those documents are essentially for action done in the F&I office where the smarmy F&I manager finalizes the deal. That, my friend, is a dealer cost. Hence those very minor costs are part of the price.
That, my friend, is basic cost accounting.
That is why some states, such as Maryland, state the doc fee charged by a car dealer is not required by law. It is purely a decision by the car dealer to attempt to increase profit.
Dealers know many car buyers will negotiate the price and then simply pay the doc fee. For those of us who understand, we don't pay those fake fees.
It is amusing to note, in some states dealers think those doc actions cost less than $100 while in others, such as Florida, it costs dealers $1,000 or so. I wonder what Florida dealers are doing that costs so much money?
Dealers have far larger costs to do business than the costs associated with those documents. You know costs such as wages, facilities, utilities, insurance, and on and on and on. So tell us why dealers do not attempt to charge over price for those costs?
Even if a car buyer concludes paying an amount to a dealer to send the paper work, usually in a batch, to the DMV justifies an additional amount, do you think that amount should be several hundred or more dollars? At best that effort is worth no more than $50.
In the end, those doc fees along with any dealer fee which is taxed is nothing more than a dealer ploy to increase profit and to increase visits by advertising a lower price while hiding the fake fees in the very small print.
And now you know.
First red flag is not having prices on the vehicles windshields. Just got a new one for 1k off msrp dealer mis labeled it, and rhey gave me way more than i expected fkr my trade. Literally the best car buying experience of my life. I saw a different dealer list online 4k under invoice... With 3939 doc fee on the vehicle 9x the max allowed by state law lol
I went to go look at a used acura in a used car lot. It was an hour away from my house. it was online and I wanted to test drive the car. I called a head of time to make sure they still had the car available and to see if I can test drive the car today. I was told yes for both.
Now I seen from your website it was there for around 100 days. So I knew it wasn't going anywhere fast.
Well now I know why. The car doesn't have a battery in it. And the owner doesn't want to put it in for me to test drive the acura. Then the sales guy wanted me to look at minivans instead of the car I wanted to look at.
The lost a potential buyer for sure.
Little regard for buyer right now. I am in same situation. Once I am done with this purchase I am not looking for vehicle for long long time.
Thanks to your channel, I rejected an offer on a car that had all sorts of junk fees, and on another, all fees are grouped together and come to $264. Price, tax, that fee and that's it. Boom. Thank you, CarEdge, for saving us thousands!
Saw a Kia Carnival $3,000 off MSRP at dealer. I ask OTD:
Here’s what they say:
Here is an approximate pricing breakdown for this vehicle. This quote includes our Kia Care protection which includes two years maintenance, three years wheel and tire road hazard protection and three years key replacement coverage.
MSRP: $37,220
Orr Kia Discount -$3,000
Kia Care: $2,995
Approximate TT&L: 4,013
Total: $41,233
Later I ask them to get to 32,000 sell price and remove Kia Care. They say Kia Care is mandatory.
So they mark down cars on website and make it up with that.
Guy said “you do save $5 off MSRP when it’s all said and done.”
LOL
You really think Kias have that much of a markup.. that they can just give you the car for 32k out the door, so you trying to perform tax evasion?
This is really good information - I’ve been thinking about buying a car (my first) and this is super helpful!
So, was pretty proud of myself last night and it has to do with your videos and other videos as research. Bought a couple used cars before, but this was my first time shooting for a new one.
Walked in, stated I wanted a new car but I'm between a few SUVs. I like THIS one, but let's see what you can do for me first. "I dont like these added prices, what can you do for me because they immediately disinterest me."
Long story short, got the price down below invoice price AFTER taxes/fees.
Can you make a checklist pdf of common fees we should NOT pay for? I think this would be super helpful.
I mean… you can watch the video and write them down yourself…
@@adamc760 yeah but im lazy my guy
@@adamc760😂
I drove a 2024 Trax Activ Cacti Green at a local Chevrolet dealership. First the online price was less than the MSRP at the store plus an added 700 $ for all weather mats that wasn’t on the Maroney sticker. They wouldn’t negotiate on anything stating it was an economy vehicle so there wasn’t any profit margin. Needless to say I thanked them and walked away
people are walking away big time now thats why there a year sypply of many cars now , we got 1 dealer who ownd 62+ stores in fl and hopfully he goes under she was the most agregious i ever saw
Even my Acura dealer doesn’t include car mats! Can you believe? Rip off.
@@cherylwhite1322
It’s crazy out there right now
the trax have little to no room for negotiation. the dealership my gf bought one had no add one at all. eveyrhing straight from manufacturer. they still got it under msrp
@@jimmyg5636cool story bro 🤡
Ray, besides being smart and experienced, you can be so funny. Oh, did I mention being a great Dad?!
43 years selling cars and he NEVER screwed anyone over? I think he built this channel out of regret he lives with.
He has stated many times in various videos he has been advocating for change in the automotive industry for a long time. That’s why he started this channel.
@@victoriamartin5414 Agreed. So he IS guilty of screwing people over.
😂😂😂fr. trying to redeem that karma
@@c.sanchez4521Found the butthurt car salesman
You must be really poor then?
Hi Mr Dreyfuss I'm old enough to remember you in " JAWS " and " American Graffiti " I didn't realize that you went on to become an Auto Salesman. THANK YOU and your son for all of the TIPS!!! ;-)
I....
you've helped so many people. i commend you.
Doc fees on new vehicles are a recent phenomenon, though they've been around for awhile now on used cars. Just a way to be able to advertise a falsely low price. Similar to the rip-off "resort fees" at hotels.
I found a sales contract on an early 70s mustang with a "doc fee." but back then, it was $7 on a $4,000 car. problem is, the "doc fee" has grown at 10 times the rate of the price of the car. "doc fees" are now $700 on a $40,000 car.
You sound like a bot salesperson
@@forrestlupercio3335 Who are you replying to? Your comment has no relation to my post.
You will only find Dealer Prep fees at powersports shops. I worked at a PowerSports store that sold Slingshots and we would have to literally finish putting the thing together when it came off the delivery truck. They only came like 90% together so they could fit on the truck. The same goes for dirt bikes, atv’s, motorcycles - they have to be assembled upon delivery.
Yep, they aren’t really comparing apples to apples. With boats, PWC, motorcycle, ATV, they usually all have freight and prep on top of the price.
Had a dealer try to slip in a "Storage & Security" fee of $250. Why would I pay them to store the car before I bought it?
I had a Toyota dealer try to charge me $350 for floor mats. I asked if they can take the floor mats out and the salesman told me the vehicle had to come with floor mats. I ended up not buying the car because of it. Why would I pay $350 for something I could get for 50 bucks?
It wasn't the dealer charging you for mats. The all weather mats were put in the vehicle at the port before it was sent to the dealership, meaning that the mats were listed on the Monroney label & thus are required by law to be included with the sale of the vehicle.
I would negotiate the price..
Ohio buyer here, As of yesterday I’ve secured my own financing through a credit union. The gal said don’t let the dealership add a doc fee as we do our own document processing for you and we do not charge. I look forward to having the doc few talk with the dealership once I decide on a vehicle to negotiate
This is one reason why people hate the car buying process. Bought a car a few years ago and every stop of the process they added a new hidden fee. Worst experience I've ever had. Been checking out your new site and hope to use it for my next purchase!
Really just get otdp and subtract bs fees from the total. That's basically your offer to them. They can take it or you walk out. And as said in video feel free to negotiate things like paint protection or whatever. If you can't come to agreement then have them take off those options. One thing I'm for is the undercarriage protection.
Not telling the dealership you are paying cash till the end insures they will not tell you the real price till the end=fact. With the ftc warning all of us shoppers with the existance of the CARS rule, its best to assume that dealerships are still posting low bait prices designed to get you in their doors and not thier competitors doors so to ensure that you do not fall victim to a bait pricing dealership, its to your best interest to contact all dealerships with the similar vehicle and wrestle the true price you must pay with cash before you visit any of them, -- Dealer A with a price of 37119 looks lower than Dealer B wih a price of 40995-- its not until you contact both do you find out that dealers a adds almost 5k of hidden charges for items you dont want resulting in a total of 42119 and dealer B will come down to 39850 and let you write a check this was a recent deal by the way
hmm... like your style gentlemen. don't know how much of this is applicable to the canadian marketplace , but i like your style none the less. keep it up, and i'll keep watching.
Planning to buy my first new car very soon I have printed out the build I want with all of the Msrp prices of the add ons I want. Thank you guys for sharing this useful information to help me not get scammed
At my local California dealer, I see them adding a 30$ electronic filing fee.
Hey Ray and Zach, for the record, US law states that dealers have to list destination charge as a separate line item on the window sticker.
True, but it’s still calculated into the MSRP
I never understood the whole BS destination fee. The car is already there, I didn’t special order it thru them.
Hi Zach & Ray people should hear/know about this shady dealership in NJ. My son who's 24 and I went to a Hyundai dealership and I asked for the out the door price. When the salesperson came back the price was almost $6,000 more than what the internet advertised price was. This was because he added $3,495 Certified pre-owned certification fee(CPO)??? This is actually a 10 year or 100,000 mile warranty, $1,000 non-Military fee and $1,000 Loyalty fee! The salesperson said because we WEREN'T Military it an extra 1K and an extra 1K because we had never bought a car with them before. This makes me mad 😡because those two are discounts you give to people who are eligible for them, these should not be a PENALTY or actually and excuse to just raise the price. I told the salesperson that we don't want the CPO we don't want because that's a warranty, but he said no thanks for the CPO - warranty. Saleman said "We only sell our cars with the CPO certification fee". Those two fee are the CPO is something you think about possibly getting a warranty with the finance office in the back. They are trying to do "Tied Selling" or bundling products as a force add-on 🤬
Total scammers. Good place to avoid IMO.
What dealership?
Hyundai 😠@@TheMANOJ200
wish I knew. Love these guys info, but I can't properly join them online for some reason. Aggravating.@@TheMANOJ200
Went to a Toyota dealership earlier this week. There was a $699 key insurance fee added on. They are only giving one key right now. For that $699 they will replace your key for free if you lose your one key!
So they keep the 2nd key to the car you bought? Madness!
Didn't make sense to me, neither did all the other add-ons like $1899 for a rust module that they said they could not remove. I walked@@sharkskin3448
@@sharkskin3448no just will be delivered in 2-6 months there’s still a chip shortage. She should have gotten paperwork from her salesman
We just bought a new Toyota Venza, and they only gave one key blaming the chip shortage.
Was that a new or a used vehicle? If used it means they didn't get the second key. If new, there should have been a second key. The cost of the car should have been reduced by the amount of the key cost.
I ordered a car at Classic Chevrolet in Grapevine, TX. Charged me 1k over MSRP for nitro tires, GPS, and tint. Held my car hostage because I balked at paying it. Wasn’t included nor negotiated when I ordered the car. Basically said they couldn’t sell me the car without it. They included it in “ALL”
new cars.
Had a dealership in Vegas do the samething. They had some werid security device in all their new vehicles. I was like why was this there? And they charged for having backup cameras. I said we'll that's federal gov safety so that's standard. Walked away from getting a truck. The general manager calls me asking about my visit. I said quote basically running a scam on this. He sounded mad. Calls back later apologizes but says he can't drop the price of the device. I said bye
I've never realised that most dealers suck with their bogus fees. More content for you guys
All powersports besides msrp they charges destination and prep, most of those vehicles come in a box with roof off, suspension compressed, even some comes with a blank ecm and key and need a reflash.
Yeah, they were way off the mark on this one. The destination and prep fees are listed on all the powersports manufacturers' websites, separate from the msrp.
My experience with "Doc fees" is similar. I have had several dealers that lowered our negotiated price to cover it and it remained a line item. What is absurd is the amount some dealers expect to get. At $199 they are ripping you off but I have seen some asking for $999. In reality they are simply charging you to do a bill of sale. How many people would be willing to go to Best Buy and have them charge you an extra $10 to give you a bill of sale on your new TV??
April 2020, I bought a 2020 Mustang 5.0 Premium for about $60,000.. no interest 6-year contract, nothing down, no trade in, they didn't want to see any docs on proof of income, and based on about 720 credit reports, still below MSRP..
I was told by a dealer salesman that DOC fees were sold as documentation fees but that DOC really meant, "Dealership Owner's Commission" and represented the dealership owner's cut of the sale, above any other baked in dollars that were part of the final negotiated price. A guaranteed amount of money for the dealership owner.
When it comes to motorcycles, UTV, ATV, there usually a freight and set up fee.
When I started selling Fords in June 1973, the doc fee was $29 and we were terrified that customers would balk.
Over the decades, the rule of thumb would be "whatever the market would bear" became the doc fee add on price.
Cheers 😎
In my recent car purchasing experience at this dealership, the sales process was standard with the expected negotiations. However, significant dissatisfaction arose during the finance stage. The finance representative incorporated undisclosed fees into the contract, which became apparent only upon reviewing the documents post-purchase. While the sales manager rectified the situation, the lack of transparency in the finance department was highly unethical.
This!
What dealership? Say their name so other people don’t get screwed
The ram 1500 Laramie 2020 cost us 45000 with a MSRP of 50000. W hen I went to trade it in july of 2023 they wanted for the same truck $41500 more than my truck with only 30000 and in excellent condition. I told them we always traded every 3 years but to buy a 70000 or 80000 truck that someone opens a car on would make me very upset. I told them no truck is worth that amount of money and I'll drive my truck till it won't run and left.
Today i went to jenkins kia of ocala to purchase a a 2024 carnival that I saw on their website. The price on the internet is 34,000 and I confirmed it with chat rep. I got to dealer and the sticker price was 48k. Manager said it had a lot of extras so I told them I didn't want all the extras and I wanted the OTD price. He came up with 35k. Them he came back and said his boss said he couldn't remove the dealer package fee of $2098 . I was so annoyed. I walked away and said tell your boss he just lost a customer
Dealer prep is checking all fluid levels,peel off plastic coating on car if there is any,make sure it runs ok and no lights on dash,takes 15 min out the door.
it's WAY more than that. but, that's the gist i guess
It's different for a motorcycle though, as those come in a crate and actually need to be assembled; they were wrong about that charge being bs for the Slingshot.
WA law requires the document fee be negotiable. I've never paid it; draw a line through it immediately. I had one dealer ask what I was doing, and when I said state law says that's a negotiable fee, he said, "Fine; let's negotiate it." I said, "No." But I find that most people don't even question the various fees they're shown.
I've been told by dealers in AZ and ID that the Doc fee is required and can't be removed "by law". Unbelievable.
Liars
You can remove yourself from the STEALERSHIP.
Ray cracks me up!😂😂
Every mfg adds freight on top of MSRP. It is a clear line item on the window sticker. Haven’t seen one yet that includes it in MSRP. Also, you need to add tax and titling. Those are all additive.
Now, that doesn’t mean you can’t negotiate down to the final OTD price.
Personally, I like to run 78% nitrogen in my tires. I have a custom blend.
Cute
Lmaoo
I bet that blend is called ambient atmosphere.
80%
I started adding 12 year old single malt scotch, but my car was swerving to much…
Bro we use to get paid 0.5 hr to pdi a new vehicle. Which Included taking the plastic off the seats, steering and rims/hubcaps. And driving it around the block and setting the clock. Lol
they pay us $100 per car
I’m with you on that one.used to get .7 but we had to install lower spoiler and fog lights and go fill up with fuel
I recently went to a dealership test drove 3 cars that I was interested in & noticed on the window sticker of car I was particularly interested in1) price was manufactured price $30k 2)was all the additional options(added $7k) reading on the line items of the additional charge was like a $300 charge for heated wiper blades, I told them I didn't need it they told me " it can't be taken off" of course I question them & they had no real answer to why it couldn't come off they jus said it jus can't. So no deal was made & they had the look of disappointment on there face as my bf & I walked out the door. I most certainly was not gonna pay over $40k for a chevy equinox LT & that's with a trade in. 😂😂
I remember when i was buying my truck the dealer was trying to charge me 3k dealer recon fee. I've never laughed so hard in my life
The next new car I buy, I’m gonna stroll into the dealership with that shirt on “if it’s taxable, it’s negotiable“
😂
The PIPA probably stands for the PERSONAL INFORMATION PRIVACY ACT, a government program that retailers have to follow and dealers can charge a reasonable fee for you to access your info. They probably pay some file clerk $15. an hour to find it.
There is no such thing as a "reasonable fee" for a dealer to comply with PIPA. That compliance is simply a cost of doing business. It is not a cost to the car buyer.
Please identify the legal or regulatory item specifying dealer's may charge a fee for compliance with PIPA?
I checked out a car last week i really wanted . Price was $43k , the salesman came back with a number of giving it to me at “invoice “so $40.5k then like $6,500 in fees . He wouldn’t let me take a pic of the numbers cause i wanted to look at it. He said cause of ftc rules he couldn’t let me so i said ok and walked out
Funny how there was a $1500 dealer prep fee when buying my wifes used vehicle. I told them I would walk if they tried to include it. the salesman said "I'll see what we can do but usually we don't take this off" I said okay well it's a deal breaker sorry. no more than literally 5 minutes it was taken off.
I’m not joking I bought a used crappy Nissan Versa Note and the guy in the finance office tried to sell me life insurance. I said “Jeez how unsafe is this POS?”
In vermont most fees are supposed to be part of the advertised price by the vt attorney general consumer assistance program. Have you heard of this in other states?
Fellow vermonter here. You have a link to that?
Discrimination if I don't make you pay doc fee? GTFOOH. Biggest bull crap that I've ever heard. Then they can use that excuse on all their other fees. At this point, we're all better off going to bikes and horses, just to watch them all go bankrupt
Thank you, gentlemen, I am heading up to the Subaru dealer tomorrow to negotiate a deal. I can tell you already their MSRP & the number on the sticker do not match, they added in the delivery/destination fee & called it MSRP. But I am armed with knowledge (watched many of your videos), I have a good down payment & a good trade in (Kia & Carmax have already offered between 8K-10K for my vehicle). Will let you know how it goes.
So...I got my Subaru Forester, $3400 under MSRP, free upgrade to auto dimming mirrors & a couple of other things. They are paying the doc fees & threw in dings & dents and tires & wheels. Got $8500 for my trade in & I was offered 0% financing for 60 months with no prepay penalties.
doc fees vary by state.......here in NJ, I saw one Subaru dealership with a doc fee of $595, and another with a doc fee of $899.......its true that can't take it off by law, but as stated in the video you can ask the dealer to make it up somewhere else, and not necessarily the entire doc fee, but say half or some portion of it.
Great video thanks y’all
idk when you google destination fee, it says its non-negotiable, and is NOT included in the MSRP. so im confused?
I say no to buying vehicles from dealerships period !
We buy new cars when they are 3-4 years old and the doc fees are the only ones I recognize, but the doc fees were always less than $250.
Im not sure on the slingshot but most motorcycles are shipped in a crate and need to be assembled. My cousin owns a motorcycle dealership and sold me my bikes at his costs, if I put it together myself it saved me money, the manufacturer did not pay for the assembly, the dealership had to pay there people to do it and do a test ride. He never overcharged people but in order for the warrantee to be valid it had to be a dealership mechanic doing the assembly. He never ever charger freight costs as it was as you say included in the MSRP.
That's still a bit shady. You have to pay an additional fee for the assembly of the new vehicle you purchased. That's like a bakery charging you assembly fees for combining the eggs, flour, sugar and milk to make your cake, a mixing/baking fee and boxing addendem. These fees are ridiculous. And, to withhold your manufacturer's warranty if you don't pay the ransom to release your caged vehicle, sounds nearly illegal. Sounds like these industries are dishonest. Just put the cost in the price and be done with it.
Hmmm...
How interesting if one required a sales rep to watch this video.
"Hey Sales Rep Bob,
Could you help me out? I really need your thoughts on this video."
Question is, ask "Bob" prior to one's negotiation,
or after being presented a BS worksheet, like the fine lads here discussed :)
Most research and trustworthy sources are saying freight/destination fees are not part of MSRP. Can we get a solid answer?
Yeah, I had this argument with dealers before... destination fee for a car that is ON THE LOT is bull, and anything for 'prep' or detailing on a NEW car is also crap.
I’ve asked for OTDP Somehow I expected a lot more numbers on the document. When you do ask for OTDP the dealer is assuming I’m paying cash when I’ve actually gone through my credit union.
Jones Junction in Maryland loves to try and charges freight
we were asked for $1,500 fee for paying cash on an used car (That they gently will take off as a discount )
at the end other fees that added up around $7,000 to the price asked. so a $27,000 used car ended up at $34,000 insane!!!! we walked away.
The sling shot comes in a box 📦! There's a lot of installation on it! That prep fee is about right ✅️
If the Stealership claims to have 'reconditioned' a car, two things I'd like to know is: what is their definition of "reconditioning" and where is the line-item invoice of the parts and labor involved?
I entered a rental where the Scamlord advertised that the kitchen had been "renovated". What the liar meant by that is that he had repainted the early to mid 90's cabinets once again.
Perhaps by "renovated", he meant that he's repainted them to the point where you can see that too many coats had been left on from all of previous "renovations" so it starts looking like h pained with caulk, since he didn't have enough left to caulk the bathtub...
I always show my clients the service R.O. of our reconditioning. We generally spend $1,200 to $2,000 per car in recon.. Please don’t compare my cars to the hovels that are in your budget. CIAO!!
Yep if the problem is if you're after a vehicle that is in high demand for example a Toyota Prius Prime which has an at least a 1 to 2 year wait time then you're kind of stuck paying top dollar if you want one. Basically you're lucky to get out of it without paying anything after what is showing as advertised on Toyotas website when you build the car.
It's the first time ever I've gone to a dealership and have never negotiated on a car price they know they will sell them so it's kind of take it or leave it.
In the motorcycle industry most factories do not include freight in the MSRP.
The MSRP doesn't include the freight. Check the online description on the website of the manufacturer it will say the freight is not included
Fees don't matter just focus on total cost out the door.
Many years ago I bought a used car and as the salesman was going over the charges he said "rent fee $250" . I stopped him and asked him what that was. He said oh don't worry about that we charge that fee on all cars we sell. I kept pressing him and he said well when a person buys a car we charge a fee for every day that it has sat on our lot. Kind of like renting a space for the car to sit on until it's bought. I said "H$# no I won't pay that! I said I'd walk out the door before I'd pay a BS charge like that. He took it off.
I just looked a truck last night, I am just looking for a cheap truck, I know ha ha. Anyway it was marked at 12.999. we took it for a test drive and it drove pretty good for a 2007 with 88,000 miles on it. the cruse control did not work and the heater core seamed to have a leak according to me and my wife’s nose, plus a few other little things. But the heater core was the deal breaker for me. (heater cores are a major pain to get to) But we decided to see what their offer was. I did not think to ask, what their interest rate was, because when they came back whit 325 a month for 84 months. I said we’re out. That in my opinion, (10,000 dollar truck) would have cost me 28,800 over the life of the loan. and that was with 2.000 down. That would be nearly triple what it is really worth.
In canada as far back as I can remember freigh, pdi, gas tax were always on the window sticker. way back in the day you usually negotiated most of this stuff away, but they were always treated as if it was part of MSRP. I'm sure there were people who ended up paying it though. and now I guess because of low inventory and cars flying off the lot the dealers are just trying to make people eat it. I've given up on buying any car right now. I have a 12 year old Nissan altima (purchased new) that I'm probably going to drive into the ground because cars are too expensive now and I'm too tired to play games.
Read every line item!!they tried to add a 300.00 coupon book for discounts on maintenance I do myself anyway.by the time I financed it it would have been 600.00 for a coupon book I'd never use.I made them take it off and redo the whole loan.motorcycles have to be put together at the dealership so I understand a few bucks for that but destination fee? don't get it to it's destination and see how it works out for ya.not my problem to get it there.I lease a new acadia for few years for 400 and month for when I need to go somewhere special otherwise I drive my 99 F-150.last time I swapped out they tried to sell me a policy to cover any damages when I turn it in at the end of the lease, I said uuuuugghh I think that's why I have full coverage through state farm already,it never ends!! but if you don't drive a lot you can lease for half what it cost to buy with the option to buy at the end of the lease.I haven't had a car out of warranty or even bought a set of tires for my car in 15 years and I update to the latest technology and safety features every three years.for 400 a month.
At this point I just wish your dad could come car shopping with me 😅😂
everywhere i read online says that Freight/Destination fees are not necessary baked into the MSRP...
Last week I bought a used car and the first dealership I went to tried to make us pay a non optional $4,000 “certification charge” which was essentially to cover the cost of them restoring the car when it was traded in, plus an included 1 year warranty…. Non negotiable. we walked
Buying cars shouldn’t be this tricky and complicated in this day and age. I guess this would decimate your business model but we need the dealership model to be deprecated. Buy direct and have authorized service centers.
Love your channel - Quick question. I am looking at a window sticker 2023 Chevy Colorado Z71 and noticed the Options and Pricing portion that raised a few red flags. There was an "Options Installed by Manufacturer" and then "Dealership Installed." Are both of these items negotiable or just the add on from the Dealership? I get the, "IF its taxable its negotiable" but all of the listed add on from one or the other is confusing.
Also, MSRP on the sticker shows $40,200k and with all the options factored in - Total comes to $46,780 + a Destination fee of $1595 bucks on a separate line item of $46,780 bringing the grand total to $48,375.
I can testify that most of what they mentioned is a rip off (I work for a dealership.) I work for a dealership that doesn't do this stuff so I actually love when other dealerships do this stuff because it gives me free reign to instill doubt in other dealerships.
Florida has the worst doc fee. $1900+, the doc fee and other fees came out to the same as the amount paid in sales tax. I refused to buy a car that was in Florida after talking to dealers about this.
Will the price on very popular vehicles like a rav4 or crv continue to drop even though they are still in demand and can I still negotiate on a popular vehicle like that?
Of course, it doesn't matter what vehicle or anything. You can always negotiate anything on anything whether they like it or not. I have a 2015 crv EXL with 59k miles on it and I still owe 14.4k left and dealers won't pay it off even tho it is very very low miles for the year and in maculate condition inside and out. I had a dealer try to give me 12.5 on it and I walked out. I need my previous loan paid off before I get a new one. So I will keep holding off until they realize how much they need the vehicle more then I do.