Have you seen those platons that simulate a large contact wheel from Carothers?? I think they make one thats a 72 wheel!! It would be interesting to do a super subtle hollow grind on these!! Your flat grinds and videos are excellent!
I know this is an older video. And maybe youve already said in another video, but do you have any thoughts on Vanadis 8? On paper at least it looks like it might have a similar edge stability to M4, maybe even better?
I absolutely love what you are doing bro and on board! Ready to buy when you put out on the market! I love that you are daring with the 4V, most folks avoid it for sure! Shawn, you are doing great things!!
I've been looking for camp knives geared toward food prep in tough steels like 3V and more so CMP 154/RWL 34 (for the added stain resistance) to be able to get the thinnest/sliciest grind with still some decent ability for general utility. I hadn't considered following the train of thought as far as 4V, and I assume there is not much out there in 4V, but maybe it would be worth sacrificing some stain resistance and go there. I'm picturing a thin high hollow grind in 4V extending up to like you say a 3/16 spine.
southerncross100 YES thanks Mick this is something I've always wanted to explore. Yet, I still appreciate a bruiser too. But what fun about 4v is it looks like we can just change the stock thickness and do both.
anotherrandomtexan25 Yes, too boutique for the masses. Precision cutting tools have limits and they are harder to make. If I had to mass produce I'd rather offer thicker knives , cheaper to make and less damage in the wrong hands.
Big Brown Bear. Kind of what I was hinting at in a previous video when I mention that I can't recall seeing criticisms of Phil Wilson's knives. People who buy his knives are after cutting/slicing peformance rather than "survival knives". There is a market for both, although based on internet traffic, the "survival market" is larger.
i know this video is old but are you planning on making any of these knives available. I'm interested in 4ve primarily for its ability to support thin edges but everyone making knives in the steel are doing them so thick to the point of being unusable. one or two production companies seem to have marginally better grinds but the hardness seems to be erring on the softer side. If you ever make these knives available I'll be the first customer. Im desperate to try it out but no ones offerings really seem to be optimizing its benefits. Really cool knives
Thank you, There will be more. I've been exploring alot of different steels and heat treats so its been slowing down my making. Also Ive been devoloping special sharpening stones to match the steel since 4v at 64 is feel rubbing glass together on high end ceramic stones, needs special stones to get the edge I want. More on this later. I also want to explore 4v at 67 hrc, during HT it wants to be very hard and takes work to temper down which is interesting, given the toughness of the material it might be interesting to play with at that hardness to see whats possible. Stay tuned. Ill post a sale video for my knives here. So only Subs get sales also email me here shawn.houston@live.com
the V4E/4v I've messed with sharpened similarly enough to 3v to make me think those examples were just too soft to really be a good indication of the actual potential of this steel. I remember reading that it compares favorably to moderately hard m4. At least in use. As for 67...I really want to see what happens. If it survives HT make sure to let us see the results. Great work!
How does it hold up compared to spring steel and high carbon steels in flex tests? I find it hard to believe a steel with over 18% chrome can compete with spring steel in flex tests. Doesn't it break under high tension stress? I've never owned this steel to be able to run tests on it. Everyone seems to only want to do edge toughness tests, when proving how tough it is. I want to see you guys bend that over 90 degrees in a vice and show me it out performing 1095.
flexibility is dominated by geometry, deflection is 4 multiplied by force applied by length of the knife cubed over modulus of elasticity of the steel by width and thickness of the blade cubed. These steels are capable of flexing and being fillet knives with the right geometry and as long as some mouth breather didn't heat treat it and fuck it up. Spring steels lack the strength component for holding a good edge, they can roll and plastic deform so damn bad in use might as well be a chip. I get annoyed with extreme tunnel vision on raw ductility toughness from those seeking durability , that's not how shit works . I can't think of any reason for a high performance knife made for cutting to bend to 90 unless its a fillet knife. 1095 is not the toughest steel either.
@@FearNoSteel All I'm asking is how does it compare in a flex test to a standard steel like 1095. What's more annoying is when people try to defend knife steels as if they were their wives, instead of just giving us the data.
Good info right here. I’ve done some blades in 4V @ 63/64 . Probably the most balanced steel of one doesn’t care about corrosion. I’ve worked with Zapp Z-Wear also, up there with it but a little trade off of wear for corrosion resistance.
I like the edge off of cruwear/zwear at 63 a little better, seems the 4v is tougher even at 64 hrc but it doesnt sharpen as nicely as the cruwear, during rope cut testing I wasnt blown away by the 4v either, I think what impressed me the most was the ability to take that strength and toughness of 4v at high hardness and use it to go super low on the geometry
I enjoy your videos tremendously,keep up the good work. I would love to have a 6” or 7” nakiri in 4V taken down that thin 7 thousandth. Man that’s awesome.
gabe v Edge toughness and blade toughness are a little different. If you want the toughest blade then you go soft steel, low alloy. Look at swords. But put this geometry on them. Absolutely crap. Folds and rolls for days. Can't handle it. Low strength. The opposite is true if we baton this knife. Not going to handle insane impact as good as lower alloy soft steel. So we ask, are we Making a sword? Or a knife? Also what happens when we compensate this steel and heat treatment to make it baton by using thicker stock? I'd argue that we would get the toughest edge and the ability to take some heavy impacts without critical blade failure at .200" stock My point is don't get fixated on the steel, don't get fixated on a production knife in that steel unless you're also factoring geometry AND heat treatment.
I'm from Malaysia, very nice review. I have a question here😊, will cpm4v make a good chopper? say 20 inches parang? As i know, CPM3V is pretty tough and good for long blade. How about CPM4v? In Malaysia, vanadis4e, M4 and K490 are used in chopping competition. I'm just wondering, what steel is more suitable for long knife? Tougher steel like calmax, S7,L6 or PM steel such as V4E,cpm4v or K490? K490,Cpm3V or 4V?
@@greenforest80 Spring steels will always be more suitable steels for Parangs and machetes. 80crv2, is a super tough steel, that also provides plenty of edge retention. L6 is really tough only until 57 hrc, if you go harder, it imedeatelly drops down it's toughness. PM steels, are not suitable for Parangs, however CPM 3V, is what I would probably choose, if I had to choose a PM steel, for a Parang. 5160, is one of the most suitable steels, for machetes.
Yea..insane steel. in my country Indonesia..we use them for cutting competition chopper..you can grind them very thin bevel..thin convek edge..almost v flat And don't forget v4e brother.. Vanadis23.. I have golok with this badas steel 65hrc with crazzy wear resistan.. One the weird thing this steel only beter with toothy edge..in 400grit belt..but looks like 1000grit under microscope sometimes i think Vanadis23 never be dull😁
Bad ass man love 4v excellent steel iam very interested in purchasing a knife from u please let me know when they are for sale will definitely buy one. Thanks for all the great info on blades iam a complete knife junkie can't have enough them
Jason Erickson Thanks Jason I'll definitely let ya know, I'll be taking orders after April and I'll drop knives for sale on UA-cam so make sure you subscribe and hit the bell notification.
Glad 4v is getting some love. The v series is one of favorite series. S5 and S7 are a little ahead of that. 10XX series is cool too. L6 is at the very top of my list though, then maybe CPM-154.
I don't think you've ever heard of a competition Chopper I think those are made to chop and I think they still call them knives last time I checked chopping and cutting🤔
Casey Bryan haha have you heard of the grosser messer? That's a German sword that translates to "big knife" If we want we can get anal retentive about alot of shit. But my point in this video is exploring the edges of "cutting" knives not chopping, chiseling, scrapping prying tools. You want to see that stuff? Good. We will get there. This is my time and money. So we can only do so much homie. No one is stopping you from doing this either. So join the team and get off the sideline.
Big Brown Bear yes I want to get cpm 3v from alpha knife supply and make one two knives from this steel I think that that is a very tough steel and I've heard good things about it
Casey Bryan excellent, I respect that. You'll find at this thin of a geometry the edge will not hold it's shape as good as 4v. It will roll due to lack of strength while 4v will not and have NO damage, But 3V is a more durable blade. Just depends on the end goal. Batoning? Or cutting?
You cant have it perfectly both ways but you can shoot the gap. My point is blades exist for more than maximum cutting potential; for more than cooking and cutting boxes open.
I have plenty of videos showing the spectrum, I get it.However, at the end of the day, maximum cutting performance deserves more admiration and respect since It is simply more expensive and difficult to create. There is no shortage of thick knives that can do all the durability stuff folks hearts desire, but no matter how sharp you can get them they will never cut as good as a fine tuned blade for cutting performance first. Basically, the reason why I got in a knife making there is just a severe shortage of high performance cutting knives. I think however the majority of folks feel your sentiments so I don't mind pandering to that crowd hence why my last videos were me chopping nails and such But in my heart I know what I would personally want if I'm spending money for high performance knife I want cutting performance number one
Hey Triple B please keep me in mind when you get ready to start your sales .
Have you seen those platons that simulate a large contact wheel from Carothers?? I think they make one thats a 72 wheel!! It would be interesting to do a super subtle hollow grind on these!! Your flat grinds and videos are excellent!
I know this is an older video. And maybe youve already said in another video, but do you have any thoughts on Vanadis 8? On paper at least it looks like it might have a similar edge stability to M4, maybe even better?
I've been interested in 4V for awhile now! Just saw the new Spyderco Province fixed blade and had to put a pre order in at KC! Thanks for the videos.
I hope that when you sell those you make a smaller edc version.
Z. Ripley yes, there will be a edc model
Z. Ripley 👏
Did you ever start selling these brother?
I absolutely love what you are doing bro and on board! Ready to buy when you put out on the market! I love that you are daring with the 4V, most folks avoid it for sure! Shawn, you are doing great things!!
Nate Brabant Thanks Nate. I've got some really cool stuff to share after the show.
I've been looking for camp knives geared toward food prep in tough steels like 3V and more so CMP 154/RWL 34 (for the added stain resistance) to be able to get the thinnest/sliciest grind with still some decent ability for general utility. I hadn't considered following the train of thought as far as 4V, and I assume there is not much out there in 4V, but maybe it would be worth sacrificing some stain resistance and go there. I'm picturing a thin high hollow grind in 4V extending up to like you say a 3/16 spine.
Derr, I mean 1V not 4V. Got confused by the title and was thinking 4V was the toughest of the series.
IMO intelligent use of the toughness of the steel to produce a knife that is thin behind the edge so it will be an exceptional cutter/slicer.
southerncross100 YES thanks Mick this is something I've always wanted to explore. Yet, I still appreciate a bruiser too. But what fun about 4v is it looks like we can just change the stock thickness and do both.
southerncross100 this is what I've always wanted see a big manufacture try! Although I can understand why they don't, still wish more would try it
Might have something to do with warranty claims.
anotherrandomtexan25 Yes, too boutique for the masses. Precision cutting tools have limits and they are harder to make. If I had to mass produce I'd rather offer thicker knives , cheaper to make and less damage in the wrong hands.
Big Brown Bear. Kind of what I was hinting at in a previous video when I mention that I can't recall seeing criticisms of Phil Wilson's knives. People who buy his knives are after cutting/slicing peformance rather than "survival knives". There is a market for both, although based on internet traffic, the "survival market" is larger.
Hey Triple B how is the custom knife making going ? Have you any ready for sale yet ?
Excellent info as always. I love learning about knife steel. 👍
You should do a regrind on the Province that thing has a horrible grind and it's 4v
i know this video is old but are you planning on making any of these knives available. I'm interested in 4ve primarily for its ability to support thin edges but everyone making knives in the steel are doing them so thick to the point of being unusable. one or two production companies seem to have marginally better grinds but the hardness seems to be erring on the softer side. If you ever make these knives available I'll be the first customer. Im desperate to try it out but no ones offerings really seem to be optimizing its benefits. Really cool knives
Thank you, There will be more. I've been exploring alot of different steels and heat treats so its been slowing down my making. Also Ive been devoloping special sharpening stones to match the steel since 4v at 64 is feel rubbing glass together on high end ceramic stones, needs special stones to get the edge I want. More on this later. I also want to explore 4v at 67 hrc, during HT it wants to be very hard and takes work to temper down which is interesting, given the toughness of the material it might be interesting to play with at that hardness to see whats possible. Stay tuned. Ill post a sale video for my knives here. So only Subs get sales
also email me here shawn.houston@live.com
the V4E/4v I've messed with sharpened similarly enough to 3v to make me think those examples were just too soft to really be a good indication of the actual potential of this steel. I remember reading that it compares favorably to moderately hard m4. At least in use. As for 67...I really want to see what happens. If it survives HT make sure to let us see the results. Great work!
Love learning with you! Where can we buy your stuff? Happy to help support your new venture and would love to get my hands on one of your beauties.
Christopher Noerr Yeah brother, I got a show this April and afterwards we'll take orders.
How does it hold up compared to spring steel and high carbon steels in flex tests? I find it hard to believe a steel with over 18% chrome can compete with spring steel in flex tests. Doesn't it break under high tension stress? I've never owned this steel to be able to run tests on it. Everyone seems to only want to do edge toughness tests, when proving how tough it is. I want to see you guys bend that over 90 degrees in a vice and show me it out performing 1095.
flexibility is dominated by geometry, deflection is 4 multiplied by force applied by length of the knife cubed over modulus of elasticity of the steel by width and thickness of the blade cubed. These steels are capable of flexing and being fillet knives with the right geometry and as long as some mouth breather didn't heat treat it and fuck it up. Spring steels lack the strength component for holding a good edge, they can roll and plastic deform so damn bad in use might as well be a chip. I get annoyed with extreme tunnel vision on raw ductility toughness from those seeking durability , that's not how shit works . I can't think of any reason for a high performance knife made for cutting to bend to 90 unless its a fillet knife. 1095 is not the toughest steel either.
@@FearNoSteel All I'm asking is how does it compare in a flex test to a standard steel like 1095. What's more annoying is when people try to defend knife steels as if they were their wives, instead of just giving us the data.
I told you, 4FL"cubed" over EWT "cubed" . This means make it thin, it will flex.
@@FearNoSteel Ok thanks.
@@londiniumarmoury7037 instagram.com/p/BhuQ9XogQ8N/?igshid=vecn49hxy3dj
Good info right here. I’ve done some blades in 4V @ 63/64 . Probably the most balanced steel of one doesn’t care about corrosion. I’ve worked with Zapp Z-Wear also, up there with it but a little trade off of wear for corrosion resistance.
I like the edge off of cruwear/zwear at 63 a little better, seems the 4v is tougher even at 64 hrc but it doesnt sharpen as nicely as the cruwear, during rope cut testing I wasnt blown away by the 4v either, I think what impressed me the most was the ability to take that strength and toughness of 4v at high hardness and use it to go super low on the geometry
Is MAGNACUT as Stable Toughness as 4v?
Yes
So cool! I'm wicked stoked to check out your knives soon.
Matt K yea man I'll be at the Oregon knife show this April. Afterwards we are going to take orders and sell knives
Will you have knives for sale at the show?
Matt K Yea, I'm working my butt off to get them done for the show
Awesome, can't wait!
soz for the ignorance how does one go about acquiring one of your knives
harrison strapp currently we are waiting until after the Oregon knife show. Then I'll start taking orders
AWESOME MATE LOVE YOUR WORK AND THAT JADE G10
What about doing a little thicker blade with a micro bevel
Justin PenisBEAR Koop on this knife? And to what purpose?
Big Brown Bear would it make it more durable for multipurpose
Justin PenisBEAR Koop at a cost yes. It's not going to cut as good. Everything is a trade off.
I enjoy your videos tremendously,keep up the good work. I would love to have a 6” or 7” nakiri in 4V taken down that thin 7 thousandth. Man that’s awesome.
didn't cedric/ada break the tip on a 4v blade,i was surprised it didn't seem like he abused too much
gabe v haha how thick was that blade? HUGE factor. More important then steel.
gabe v Edge toughness and blade toughness are a little different. If you want the toughest blade then you go soft steel, low alloy. Look at swords. But put this geometry on them. Absolutely crap. Folds and rolls for days. Can't handle it. Low strength.
The opposite is true if we baton this knife. Not going to handle insane impact as good as lower alloy soft steel.
So we ask, are we Making a sword? Or a knife?
Also what happens when we compensate this steel and heat treatment to make it baton by using thicker stock? I'd argue that we would get the toughest edge and the ability to take some heavy impacts without critical blade failure at .200" stock
My point is don't get fixated on the steel, don't get fixated on a production knife in that steel unless you're also factoring geometry AND heat treatment.
what about 4v makes it so tough? newish to the knife making world
Not purely toughness but a good blend of strength and toughness due to having a good amount of alloy, low chromium and being a PM steel
I'm from Malaysia, very nice review.
I have a question here😊, will cpm4v make a good chopper? say 20 inches parang? As i know, CPM3V is pretty tough and good for long blade. How about CPM4v? In Malaysia, vanadis4e, M4 and K490 are used in chopping competition. I'm just wondering, what steel is more suitable for long knife? Tougher steel like calmax, S7,L6 or PM steel such as V4E,cpm4v or K490? K490,Cpm3V or 4V?
@@greenforest80 Spring steels will always be more suitable steels for Parangs and machetes. 80crv2, is a super tough steel, that also provides plenty of edge retention. L6 is really tough only until 57 hrc, if you go harder, it imedeatelly drops down it's toughness. PM steels, are not suitable for Parangs, however CPM 3V, is what I would probably choose, if I had to choose a PM steel, for a Parang. 5160, is one of the most suitable steels, for machetes.
@@greekveteran2715 8670 may be another good option , aside from 5160.
Yea..insane steel.
in my country Indonesia..we use them for cutting competition chopper..you can grind them very thin bevel..thin convek edge..almost v flat
And don't forget v4e brother..
Vanadis23..
I have golok with this badas steel 65hrc with crazzy wear resistan..
One the weird thing this steel only beter with toothy edge..in 400grit belt..but looks like 1000grit under microscope
sometimes i think Vanadis23 never be dull😁
Bad ass man love 4v excellent steel iam very interested in purchasing a knife from u please let me know when they are for sale will definitely buy one. Thanks for all the great info on blades iam a complete knife junkie can't have enough them
Jason Erickson Thanks Jason I'll definitely let ya know, I'll be taking orders after April and I'll drop knives for sale on UA-cam so make sure you subscribe and hit the bell notification.
Glad 4v is getting some love. The v series is one of favorite series. S5 and S7 are a little ahead of that. 10XX series is cool too. L6 is at the very top of my list though, then maybe CPM-154.
...'SICK' !!! have a good one...
JCB 67 haha thanks JC
All for science !
convex nice thanks brother
I don't think you've ever heard of a competition Chopper I think those are made to chop and I think they still call them knives last time I checked chopping and cutting🤔
Casey Bryan haha have you heard of the grosser messer? That's a German sword that translates to "big knife" If we want we can get anal retentive about alot of shit. But my point in this video is exploring the edges of "cutting" knives not chopping, chiseling, scrapping prying tools. You want to see that stuff? Good. We will get there. This is my time and money. So we can only do so much homie. No one is stopping you from doing this either. So join the team and get off the sideline.
Big Brown Bear yes I want to get cpm 3v from alpha knife supply and make one two knives from this steel I think that that is a very tough steel and I've heard good things about it
Casey Bryan excellent, I respect that. You'll find at this thin of a geometry the edge will not hold it's shape as good as 4v. It will roll due to lack of strength while 4v will not and have NO damage, But 3V is a more durable blade. Just depends on the end goal. Batoning? Or cutting?
Man.... i really want a 4v knife now, fuck me.
God forbid someone does something other than slice tomatoes with their knives haha
Seems ya can't have it both ways so ya have to pick and choose
You cant have it perfectly both ways but you can shoot the gap. My point is blades exist for more than maximum cutting potential; for more than cooking and cutting boxes open.
I have plenty of videos showing the spectrum, I get it.However, at the end of the day, maximum cutting performance deserves more admiration and respect since It is simply more expensive and difficult to create. There is no shortage of thick knives that can do all the durability stuff folks hearts desire, but no matter how sharp you can get them they will never cut as good as a fine tuned blade for cutting performance first. Basically, the reason why I got in a knife making there is just a severe shortage of high performance cutting knives. I think however the majority of folks feel your sentiments so I don't mind pandering to that crowd hence why my last videos were me chopping nails and such But in my heart I know what I would personally want if I'm spending money for high performance knife I want cutting performance number one
Have you tried comparing this knife to a legitimate medical scalpel?
*Battle of the sharpness....* (your knife wins)
Sean B hahaha thanks Sean
Oh yeah knives do this weird thing called stabbing too🤔
Casey Bryan your're too hung up on generalities, if your want a knife to cut good other attributes have to be compromised.
When you make kitchen knives
non yobussiness damn soon bro.