Jesus vs. Pagan Gods By
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- Опубліковано 18 бер 2024
- Michael Jones from Inspiring Philosophy (@InspiringPhilosophy) examines the question: is Jesus Christ a copy of pagan gods? This video will shed light on this common claim about Jesus Christ and the origin of Christianity.
Did the really Christians copy common pagan beliefs or is Jesus the Christ something completely different?
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It’s great to see young men of God defending the faith. It’s always great to remember we serve and worship the living God. Glory to Christ Jesus our Lord.
cwhy gives an allknowing god humnkind a free will
he knew we will rape and murder
thats your god?
I respect all religion, but the speaker is just wrong.
Christianity is a coninuation of judiasim. Jews worshipped El. There are pagan roots in all mythos. Im not arguing imlications, just facts
This video was awesome and IP nailed it in the Q&A
Yahweh is holy, unique, singular. Yeshua is Yahweh incarnate. This is an absolute truth, a fact, and I have no doubt thanks to Him.
IP did a really good job with his presentation..
I can’t wait to watch this one
IP did a great job
@@YourBrotherInChristits like watching someone who stumbled into reality and covered his eyes and ears lmao. Hes defenses are so flimbsey I wonder if the crowd is sleeping
@theredgoblin562 🧢
@@theredgoblin562this is your last line of defense😂😂😂😂
Insult and runn.....
@@joshclips2053 pagan idols arent real creatures in my opinion. They are a philisophical attempt to decipher the ways in which god divided his mind to create reality. I'm not saying of it's good or bad, but its kinda complicated
Ali Dawah don’t like us Jews. I’m a Spanish Jew from my mom’s side. They trippin!! Those dates are good!!😅
I love how you're topic about this in a COMPLETELY different video. God bless ❤😂
@gooseman4177 ah, yes, I see now that there was a video 12 days ago about that, lol. This has happened to me as well, I commented on the wrong video. No harm done, though 😅
I think we are very anachronistic and don't understand the vast distances that separated these cultures. Marco Polo was a decades long journey 1100 years later when the Mongol conquest made merchant travel safer.
The "modern age" was given it's name, not because it is contemporary, but because the man who naned it predicted people would become incapable of imagining an age before or after it
That was pretty good picture of IP, smiling!
I love IPs videos and his speaking and presentation style.
love this IP guys
Very good presentation.
Great lecture by Inspiring Philosophy. These theories are sadly very common. A combination of ignorance and a hatred of Christianity is what keeps them alive.
The people who claim that Jesus is just a rip off of other gods show they both don’t know Christian theology or the theology of the other faiths they point at when making these claims.
You’d think the people who confess to practice Paganism/Heathenism would be rather upset that their deities are so woefully misrepresented for this type of argument and yet I see so many of them happily go along with it if it means bashing on Christians.
Though to be fair, most people practicing modern day “Paganism” are really just larping at it because atheism is no longer “edgy” enough.
And as to the dying and rising vegetation gods, there's a theory that Ulysses was originally one of them; of course, by the time "Odyssey" was written, he was fully humanised. This hypothesis states for example that Calypso(her name means "She who hides") is a personification of death, also the Pheaces' land might be analogous for underworld etc.
Disappointed by the lack of Kratos lol
I know right
The true ending of god of war will always be "he became one of the wise men who forst worshiped yhe infant christ"
@@marvalice3455
Are you referring to the "Three travelers heading to an unknown destiny" mural from God of War 2? That mural was not referring to Kratos.
@@babbisp1 i choose to believe 😌
Where was this presentation given? What was the occasion?
It was at apologetics con 2024
@@YourBrotherInChrist ok. Thank you for replying. Cool 👍
IP needs to stop going on defense & start putting his skills on offense.
Great video! Could you do one about the Mayan and Aztec? In my school they said is a copy of them
How would that work? The aztecs exist entirely in an AD context, and the Europeans had no contact with the mayans.
That's just self evidently wrong.
But, ypu ought to look at Michael's method and steal it.
When someone claims "Christianity is a copy of x" ask them for primary sources, or read the primary sources yourself
@marvalice3455 I mean knowing conspiracy theorist they will ignore that
I'm a student to be a history teacher, and my professor trow that comment, and I thought to myself that was weird, I search information and they were politeists, had many God, but One was the most important the one who created the world and this had a son ,lord that was a priest and teach people about agriculture and stuff like that, I couldn't find more info , but again, applying what the video says , and is just a coincidence or something, because they have a god for everything
Sorry for my English, my first language is Spanish
Great video
Thanks for the visit
An important note here: Budda isn't seen as god by Buddhists. He is to them more like Mohammad to Muslims(i.e. a teacher and morally exquisite man, but not god). He is a god in Hinduism, though.
David wood😂😂😂😂😂
Love u all guys
Devil woods evil n disgusting pagans polytheist idolater human being Jewish man prophet of Nazareth worshipper SMH
English brother
good work on this talk Michael! And the Q&A too. 29:00 it seems Joseph and Mary and his apostles didn't know Jesus birthday... there's even Scripture in that.
Here's the verse:
And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. And Jesus himself began to be *_about_* thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli...
LUK3
(Jesus, of course, knew his birthday. Being God and all).
Even if all these myths did share all those similarities with Jesus, it wouldn’t be evidence against Jesus, it would just mean that the historical God man actually lived out many of the traits and themes of the mythical human conceptions of gods. which, isn’t that what you’d expect a God-man to do ?
I love u IP forever.
Is this Live?
sadly no
Ontological core meaning is rarely discussed and in 1900s has become the most corrupting factors in all our lives on what paganism truly is.
We still have the issue among Christians that even some follow the Huxley views that matter is Devine not definable. That environment dictates sin and one needs mediating governance who the prescribes extreme physical lawisms prescriptional structuralism. The following generations becomes 3 -degrees of motion/separation from the 1st position proper orientation and direction.
It's a very paganized view that was so prenticous in the early 1900s that we stopped having debates on what is true" paganism" as the fall of st augustine works with limited understanding and he doesn't know time is not magically woven into the fabric of reality so this can get blurry. He doesn't know 1st position Newton says pretend clocklike solar systems then Einstein #2 On his horizon & he does just that he pretends & correlates standardized time with a photon, big bang cosmogony then adds to the silence of what paganism truly was & is at its core practices and meaning ontologically.
Treatment of matter as Devine as opposed as definable is a very different outcome of alignment in thought about man & the world around us.
Akkadians' dualism occurs, and the soulless naucturnal views about how we want reality to be becomes a local system that can be manipulated and evolved vs a triality of selfless avoidance of this type of subtle inadvertent confusion taking place as Jesus gives the ultimate sacrifice & tool by which nature itself becomes ( definable) not devine. To be ordered named and directed. When sir Issac Newton gets this unlocking the keys to the cosmos and man began eradicating needs and demands that drove good men to do bad things we learned a lot more about Jesus and its evidence is in the world we live in just as promised 2024 years ago.
Which brings us to retrospect & why with pergatory docterine creating woke & old beliefs still treating Matter devine, as environment dictates who you are, as if nature is to blame for sins is a very antithetical thing to do both ( #1 in,2 thru 3 For
It doesn't make you a pagan but does teach us real life how subtly easy it is to fall into paganism as we move into condensed urban living with pure intent to then start to despise your neighbors and get separated from nature becoming sensitive about it and how humans are destroyers Darwin & huxly style lol
That's just how easy it is, nature is man's local system to govern it us very durable ans flexible no one knows better than those who live up close in it .
It is good to avoid walls of text. If you want to make a video, you should!
@marvalice3455 Avoiding paganism leads to such walls of text.
Good attention to detail .Well done !
Lmaooo 7:47 some mystics would say the 12 disciples also mirror the zodiac just like Jacob had 12 sons
So what Christmas all about !? 😂
Mike Weigner cleared that up (idk if I spelled his last name correct lmao)
Hay I'm early
That stone in Mecca predated Islam and was used to worship small gods 😢😮 Maybe it changed allegiances 😅
Now steelmanning, muslims believe that islam goes back to Adam.
I think that's nonsense, but that is what they believe.
So instead we should argue "why did God allow his temple to ve defiled with pagan worship so long
@marvalice3455 That's not true because we have the names of the small gods they worshipped that stone with... in Mecca, Pre-Islamic Arabia. 😃 Islam is very young lol and it wasn't the God of Abraham, they worshipped...
@@LionBenJudah44 again, I don't believe in Islam. But if your goal is to speak to them, and not just signal your alignment, it's useful to be on a similar wavelength rather than speaking past each other
@@LionBenJudah44 to put it in a Christian context, this is sorta like when Muslims claim the Trinity "makes partners with God".
Obviously, we Christians believe God is one. But many Muslims still talk as if we don't. This doesn't help their argument, it makes them look silly to Christians, but it signals their faith to other Muslims.
The question is ultimately what you want to accomplish with your argument
@marvalice3455 The fact that the stone in Mecca was historically used to worship small gods...is enough to question the religion of Mohammad. Lol
Our goal is to lovingly share the Gospel of Jesus Christ Messiah 🙌 and to shine light and dispel lies and evil in our brothers and sisters who may be lost.
1 John 2:22-23
"Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist-denying the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also."
Nice. lol.
Thanks 😅
Yeah the things about Horus is mostly wrong but Isis was a virgin and there is a stature of her holding babu Horus 😭
Eh, story says she mounted Osiris's body after crafting him a "tool" so no Isis is not a virgin.
@@Gaz4113 yes she was lmao go look at some inscriptions she was know as the world virgin. She would regain her virginity.
@@Gaz4113 I think some people even say Caesar & Alexander were also born from virgins. There also the Priene calendar inscriptions
@thedungeon9992 yeah they claim it but part of Isis's story is having sex with Osiris so while other people claim to be virigin births Horus really cant be one of them.
Gnostic scholars have compiled pagan correlations for a thousands years. Some of the abrahamic charactera literally have the same names as pagan gods. Think of hermes trismigistus
Trust me bro
@@merlinmbuso8448 hermes is in the bible. Jews originally called god "El" which was the same name for a cananite pagan god. Im not making assertions on the truth, but you need the basic facts to truth seek
@@theredgoblin562 No they didn't, yoy realise El is just a word that means 'God/My god right?
The same way the Arabs called Ishtar 'The Goddess' ALLAT.
this proves nothing🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@merlinmbuso8448 hebrews were the first people to recieve divine letters according to the abrahamic religions. The fact they shared language with other religions is significant.
Besides reocurring characters, themes and language. There is undeniable iconography. The mecca was an ancient symbol for self and the universe clock. Sun symbolism is all over christianity. The jews kept using the same alters and figures
@@merlinmbuso8448 from a linguistic and especially theological perspective the roots of words are important
I can't wait to rip this into pieces. This was atrociously bad. He is just wrong on the Baal Cycle. And he completely omits entire texts and various traditions about some of these gods. And nobody says Christianity is "copying pagan myths". At least nobody serious is. They simply say that these motifs are drawn upon. And for him to say "they would of made Jesus another vegetation-storm deity". Not in the Middle Platonist world of the 1st century. Vegetation gods are Pre-Platonic and Jesus, Aion, Eshmun Mithras are post-platonic and focus on the spiritual more than the natural. The only thing he is right about is saying that none of this means Jesus did not exist. But then that also shows that he contradicts his entire 1st half of this speech.
Are you able to provide any websites, titles or just sources to these "entire texts and various traditions" that he missed out on? I'm intrigued on if IP actually, willingly left out other sources that contradict his claims.
@@LadiacureBones I'm not the person you asked but I can provide sources that support what the OP is saying. Unfortunately, IP tends to be dishonest and leaves things out. If you want a youtube channel to find some if this info go to Atheologica. He's dealt with IP before. Hopefully my sources will go through.
_Empty Tomb, Apotheosis, Resurrection_ (2018), John Granger Cook:
"The review in this chapter thoroughly justifies the continued use of the category of dying and rising gods. The resurrection of Osiris is the closest analogy to the resurrection of Jesus, although Osiris remains in the netherworld - wherever it is located. Horus's resurrection is a clear analogy. The rebirth or resurrection of Dionysus also provides a fairly close analogy to the resurrection of Jesus. The revival of Heracles and probably that of Melqart are also strong analogies. Dumuzi's, Baal's, and Adonis's returns from the netherworld are less useful as comparisons, but their power to overcome death is an important analogy to the NT. Lucian was willing to use the image of resurrection for Adonis's return from Hades. Traditions of a resurrection of Adonis and Attis are later than the Gospels, but are nevertheless in good continuity with those from earlier periods (e.g. that of Osiris).Just as the Greek of the LXX and NT has it's place in the matrix of classical Greek, so the resurrection of Christ can be placed in the matrix of the bodily resurrections of cult figures from the Mediterranean world. The comments by Justin, Tertullian, Theophilus, and Origen all indicate a willingness to examine pagan analoies to the birth and resurrection of Jesus. Dieter Zeller notes that according to the apologists, the Hellenistic divinities were not unimportant for the acceptance of the proclamation of the resurrection and ascension Jesus...
This brief survey indicates fairly clearly that the category "dying and rising gods" is still useful to describe the vicissitudes of a number of ancient divinities. One does not need to adopt Frazer's approach using the concept of an annual dying and rising vegetation deity. Consequently, the thesis that the concept is dead cannot be sustained."
_Tracing Orpheus: Studies of Orphic Fragments_ (2011), Paola Corrente:
"It is possible to summarize almost one century of uninterrupted and systematic attacks on the Frazerian category with the words of J.Z. Smith, who is likely the most eminent among the opposing voices... It is precisely in reference to this affirmation that I would like to present the case of three deities who are not usually considered among the 'dying and rising': the Greek Dionysus, the Sumerian Inanna, and the Ugaritic Baal. After discussing each myth I shall return to Smiths's assertions...
This brief excursion through Greek and Near-Eastern mythology demonstrates that the idea of the death and resurrection of the gods is not as impossible as is usually argued. Moreover, the texts are ancient enough to consider them independently from the most famous case of the death and resurrection of a god, the history of Jesus. Perhaps it is time to discuss this famous and popular topic from a different perspective."
_We are Being Transformed: Deification in Paul's Soteriology_ (2012), M David Litwa:
"In the Syro-Palestinian city of Ugarit, the God Baal (the Lord) was said to battle Mot (Death) so that that the seasons could continue. Initially, Baal makes himself the servant of Mot (CTA 5.2.11 - 12, 19 - 20). Then, in a tragic defeat, he is swallowed by Mot and dies (5.6.8 - 10). He is then buried on the sacred mount (6.1.15 - 18), and mourned. In response, the Goddess Anat-driven by furious grief-(quite literally) sifts Death like wheat (6.2.30 - 37), and Baal is raised to life. The resurrected Baal then retakes his place as vice regent of El (chief deity in the Ugaritic pantheon), called “Father of Years” (5.6.2; 6.1.35 - 36). El himself proclaims after the resurrection: “For Mightiest Baal lives, the Prince, Lord of the Earth, is alive!” (6.3.20 - 21). In a future climactic combat, Baal then defeats Mot himself. “Then B[aa]l [is enthroned] on his royal throne, [On the resting place], the throne of his dominion” (6.5.5 - 6; 6.6.33 - 35)."
@@LadiacureBones I'm not the person you asked but I can provide sources that support what the OP is saying. If you want a youtube channel to find some of this info go to Atheologica. He's dealt with IP before. Hopefully my sources will go through.
_Empty Tomb, Apotheosis, Resurrection_ (2018), John Granger Cook:
"The review in this chapter thoroughly justifies the continued use of the category of dying and rising gods. The resurrection of Osiris is the closest analogy to the resurrection of Jesus, although Osiris remains in the netherworld - wherever it is located. Horus's resurrection is a clear analogy. The rebirth or resurrection of Dionysus also provides a fairly close analogy to the resurrection of Jesus. The revival of Heracles and probably that of Melqart are also strong analogies. Dumuzi's, Baal's, and Adonis's returns from the netherworld are less useful as comparisons, but their power to overcome death is an important analogy to the NT. Lucian was willing to use the image of resurrection for Adonis's return from Hades. Traditions of a resurrection of Adonis and Attis are later than the Gospels, but are nevertheless in good continuity with those from earlier periods (e.g. that of Osiris).Just as the Greek of the LXX and NT has it's place in the matrix of classical Greek, so the resurrection of Christ can be placed in the matrix of the bodily resurrections of cult figures from the Mediterranean world. The comments by Justin, Tertullian, Theophilus, and Origen all indicate a willingness to examine pagan analoies to the birth and resurrection of Jesus. Dieter Zeller notes that according to the apologists, the Hellenistic divinities were not unimportant for the acceptance of the proclamation of the resurrection and ascension Jesus...
This brief survey indicates fairly clearly that the category "dying and rising gods" is still useful to describe the vicissitudes of a number of ancient divinities. One does not need to adopt Frazer's approach using the concept of an annual dying and rising vegetation deity. Consequently, the thesis that the concept is dead cannot be sustained."
_Tracing Orpheus: Studies of Orphic Fragments_ (2011), Paola Corrente:
"It is possible to summarize almost one century of uninterrupted and systematic attacks on the Frazerian category with the words of J.Z. Smith, who is likely the most eminent among the opposing voices... It is precisely in reference to this affirmation that I would like to present the case of three deities who are not usually considered among the 'dying and rising': the Greek Dionysus, the Sumerian Inanna, and the Ugaritic Baal. After discussing each myth I shall return to Smiths's assertions...
This brief excursion through Greek and Near-Eastern mythology demonstrates that the idea of the death and resurrection of the gods is not as impossible as is usually argued. Moreover, the texts are ancient enough to consider them independently from the most famous case of the death and resurrection of a god, the history of Jesus. Perhaps it is time to discuss this famous and popular topic from a different perspective."
_We are Being Transformed: Deification in Paul's Soteriology_ (2012), M David Litwa:
"In the Syro-Palestinian city of Ugarit, the God Baal (the Lord) was said to battle Mot (Death) so that that the seasons could continue. Initially, Baal makes himself the servant of Mot (CTA 5.2.11 - 12, 19 - 20). Then, in a tragic defeat, he is swallowed by Mot and dies (5.6.8 - 10). He is then buried on the sacred mount (6.1.15 - 18), and mourned. In response, the Goddess Anat-driven by furious grief-(quite literally) sifts Death like wheat (6.2.30 - 37), and Baal is raised to life. The resurrected Baal then retakes his place as vice regent of El (chief deity in the Ugaritic pantheon), called “Father of Years” (5.6.2; 6.1.35 - 36). El himself proclaims after the resurrection: “For Mightiest Baal lives, the Prince, Lord of the Earth, is alive!” (6.3.20 - 21). In a future climactic combat, Baal then defeats Mot himself. “Then B[aa]l [is enthroned] on his royal throne, [On the resting place], the throne of his dominion” (6.5.5 - 6; 6.6.33 - 35)."
Fact is, there is something like 400,000 versions of the bible in existence today (that’s versions, not translations). The major religions can’t even agree on how many books there are in the bible so how can anyone possibly know that their bible is “the real deal”?
We don’t have the original manuscripts. What we have are copies of copies of copies of … you get the idea. In many cases the copyists didn’t even speak the language they were copying. And don’t forget the little matter of translations of translations of copies of translations ….
...While some events in the Bible can be verified, historians do not consider the Bible as a historical reference text. Instead, they look for primary documents and archaeological evidence as better sources of historical events than the Bible.
The early stories are held to have a historical basis that was reconstructed centuries later, and the stories possess at most only a few tiny fragments of genuine historical memory, which by their definition are only those points which are supported by archaeological discoveries.
It’s very easy to find the roots of Christianity in other religions. For example, both the garden of eden and The flood were taken from Gilgamesh, Moses is taken straight from Sargon of Akkad. Even the story of Jesus is borrowed from multiple other gods/religions. These were all before the bible was compiled.
No question that the Bible has been altered and edited over the centuries.
It’s easy to point out some of those changes - everyone is familiar with the story of Jesus and the adulteress (“let he who is without sin …”). While it’s a great story with a worthwhile moral it doesn’t appear in any version of the bible before the 12th century. By the same token - in the oldest bibles in our possession, the Gospel according to Mark ended with Mark 16:8. Everything after that (9-20) was added at a later date, probably so that it would agree with Matthew (which was apparently copied, in large part, from Mark).
“The scholar John Mill, no apparent relation of the philosopher John Stuart Mill, published a Greek New Testament in 1707 that showed 30,000 different available readings from only 100 manuscripts at his disposal. He was accused of trying to destroy Christianity by pointing out the truth. … We now have over 57,000 different manuscripts available and contemporary scholars believe there are between 300,000 and 400,000 different versions of the New Testament. That is more different versions of the New Testament than there are words in it. Since we don’t have any original documents, or copies, or copies of the copies, etc., we have no idea which of these 400,000 variations is the perfect one. Frankly, it boggles the mind that someone could imagine that if 400,000 different versions have come down to us that there could be one ‘perfect’ version.”
Eberhard Nestle estimated this number in 1897 as 150,000-200,000 variants.
In 2014 Eldon J. Epp raised the estimate as high as 750,000. Peter J. Gurry puts the number of non-spelling variants among New Testament manuscripts around 500,000, though he acknowledges his estimate is higher than all previous ones.
Jesus for instance, has been compared to a broad variety of figures from various mythological traditions within the Mediterranean Basin, including, Horus, Dionysus, Mithras, Sol Invictus, Osiris, Asclepius, Attis, and Adonis.
For instance Osiris was crucified, died and rose up on the third day.
The New Testament was written in Greek, as well. And for the first few centuries CE, there was a great deal of influence from Hellenistic (Greek) philosophy onto Christianity, from the very idea of a “Christ”, or savior, to the Platonic ideas of the soul and afterlife, which was largely foreign to the Jewish tradition.
Jesus was a Christian form of the Greek god Dionysus. He argues that the indisputable parallels between Dionysus and Jesus were one of the key factors that facilitated the adoption of Christianity by the ancient Greeks, who initially practiced polytheistic paganism.
Yes, folks, but Ixion was crucified for the sins of mankind. Similar story with Dionysus, Mithra, Krishna, Horus and the rest of the mythical god-men. Jesus Christ is the Jews god-man to the pagans.
It's as simple as that.
You're very smart. Millions will leave Christianity now because finally you have arrived. Well done pontificating Pete. I'll go full retard and join u
No.
@@marvalice3455 prove me wrong then!
@@bugzyhardrada3168 "versions not translations"
This is made up there's no truth to it.
"The majority of religions (sic) cannot even agree on how many books are in the bible"
This is made up there's no truth to it
After 2 such blatantly made up claims, I looked at the wall of text and skipped to the end to see another blatantly made up claims with no truth what so ever, "the Jews made of Jesus to have a certain kind of god..."
There's nothing of value to what you said. It's based entirely in fantasy and you cannot substantiate any of it if you life depended on it
@@bugzyhardrada3168 what you have is self refuting. Simple surface level research into any of these claims is sufficient to dismiss them.
Your position is pure Fantasy
By pagans do you mean the catholic church?
Wdym?
Jesus is pagan if you believe he’s God there is no three and 1 or one in 3. three 1+1+1 = 3 there is only one god and Jesus is the messiah messenger.
No.
Trinity is ancient paganism.
Egyptian Trinity
Father Osiris, mother Isis and son Horus
Hindu Trinity
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva
Christian Trinity
Father, son Jesus and Holy Spirit
"If Paganism was conquered by Christianity, it is equally true that Christianity was corrupted by Paganism. The pure Deism of the first Christians . . . was changed, by the Church of Rome, into the incomprehensible dogma of the trinity. Many of the pagan tenets, invented by the Egyptians and idealized by Plato, were retained as being worthy of belief."
Edward Gibbon's History of Christianity.
I care less what this guy has to say about Christianity than you care what Alexander hissup has to say about islam.
The Trinity only exists within the frane work of monotheism. If you aren't a monotheist, it's utter nonsense. Neither the Babylonians nor the Egyptians had any notion of a trinity, because they never distinguished between person and substance
"pure deism of the first christians"
That is demonstrably untrue just be looking at the definitions.
What part of correlation doesn’t equal causation did you not pick up on… also the pagan trinities were distinct dieties & the christian trinity does not involve a mother goddess / masculine god zysygy… everything about the pagan trinities is a corruption with completely different implications
You missed the video’s point, congrats
@@justokproductions222 you cannot miss the point if you never watch it to begin with