CG is composited slightly differently in at a vfx house using subtractive compositing. So instead of adding together all the passes, we subtract them from the beauty, do our changes, and add them back on. By the way, they shouldn't need to be composited in a particular order, CG passes are designed to be purely additive, no special blend modes required. Subtractive compositing is beneficial because of this: Say you have a scene with multiple lights, GI, reflections, refractions, SSS, volumetrics, hell even caustics. With an additive workflow, you'd need to have a pass for each of them just so that you can add it all together to recreate the beauty. But what if you know you only need to modify say, the reflections? Including all those passes is a waste of disk space, and a total overcomplication. With subtractive, you can just render your beauty and a reflection pass, subtract the reflection from the beauty, do your adjustment, and add it back on top.
Stop stop stop...what? Subtract it from the beauty, make changes and add it back on top? How, lets say inside AE, would i have to do this? Veeeeery interesting!
In AE you stack the pass which you wish to modify on top of the beauty pass, using blending mode substract. Then duplicate that specific pass on top, add your effects on it and add it back in blending mode linear dodge :)
Fixing the AE color settings to make the linear EXR images actually look nice... Thank you for this video... can't believe how much tinkering I did in C4D trying to figure out something that was an AE problem.
Perfect explain... One question.. you are using Fusion right.. but now fusion integrated in Davinci Resolve 15 So how Different they are.. I think you are using Resolve too because I saw thumbnail one of your video.. And also How to do linear workflow in resolve.. I know too many demands..😁 do your best.. love you.
Fusion in Resolve is rather limiting. So it's a tool just to do something very quickly rather than a decent compositing tool. I use both Premiere and Resolve depending on the project :) ACES workflow in resolve is what you're looking for ;)
Nice, glafd to see you back. But still I don't get why to use linear apart from blending the fire in lenear dodge? If you open the color picker - it looks ridiculous in linear mode.
Hi Andrey! Smooth video as always man! What rendering engine do you recommend for architecture instead of most comun programs? Like 3Dmax+vray/corona, lumion, blender... What's your suggest? I'm pretty sure there's more than one who has the same question. Greetings from México.
Should I put in response to sRGB or gamma 2.2 in non-linear scenarios? On Linear, it looks like crap in the Live Viewer. So far I work without After Effects. I want to change that.
Hey Andrey! Thank you for this ! By the way there is always some kind of doubt whenever I am going to export stuff from AE in pro res. It never match up with what I am seeing In the AE viewport. Any hints on the correct workflow ? There is a lot of confusion on the web about this !!
Awesome! Can't wait for you to touch on ACES Colour Management. It can get pretty technical with the different IDTs and ODTs. Its something I want to get my head around completely in my next personal project so would be a great to hear an explaination from a c4d/octane user rather than from Alex Fry's technical look at the Lego movie stuff on the ACES Academy channel.
Thank you Andrey!! But what do you think about "Blend using Gamma 1.0" in AE? Did you use it? Because Linear working space in AE don't work properly with some plugins like Element 3D and Optical flares, for example. Also, I know so much people talking about linear workflow, but Andrew Kramer for some reason doesn't work linear. At least in all his tutorials and workflow videos. Anyone knows why? Thanks!
He doesn't work in it because there is no need, his workflow is procedural these days :) As for the plugins that doesn't work in 32 bits... that's why you might want to switch to a true 3D Compositing software like Fusion or Nuke.
Is that script for fusion just an open source lua script? If so a very small modification could be made to replace the random order with one based on priority depending on pass name. A simple case insensitive string contains check for lets say the word "beauty" would suffice.
Nice video great as usual will share with the Lighter here :) thanks, But I have to say Linear workflow is one thing and exr output one completely other thing, in production we use a lot 16Bit exr as Zips to save space and also you can find enough range for the 3D compositing. as long you don't render tonnemapped exrs. For HDR (lighting) aswell displacement, 16Bit is not that bad (as many people think) Can work perfect with small size files with big videos and the difference is not that visible by naked eye.
Fusion's workflow completely wrong.. And those passes of light which includes diffuse data is ok, too.. I believe you just don't have a big needs and expierence of compositing in fusion, but for further tries - keep your category passes (like diffuse, reflections, coat, refractions etc) to be additive (in fusion you need to set alpha gain to 0 in a merge node), and your light passes to be multiplied (set Multiply in a merge node). All the rest is ok.
Interesting. I'm kinda baffled how poor EXR support is in these professional™ tools (PS, AE, Fusion). Why do they require so much brainless work to get the settings right & not shoot yourself in the foot? OpenEXR has been out since 2003 (!), open-source reference implementation and all. Why can't AE just import all layers as passes, with names & mode set automatically? Why do you need to tell Fusion that the "green" channel is, _in fact,_ the green channel? _How can PS get away with requiring a third party plugin to even import the file?_ Are VFX people (ILM, Disney, Pixar, ...) the only ones who care about linear? Is there even another format for it that's worth mentioning? (Some "RAW" formats support it, but afaiu they're a complete non-standardized mess.)
You are my hero and so I think, as Vray user, could help any newcomer to get some things. Right now Vray, and probably every render engine out there it's actually biased. The fact that uses progressive sampler doesn't imply that it's unbiased. So for those who don't know. Unbiased will be a render engine that gives the same importance to every ray cast made. Not only that but also that calculates that path in every bounce until that ray has no more energy. Because this would be inefficient unless you are doing scientific work, all renderers use a biased solution. And all renderers are NOT physically correct. The fact it's proven because they use models (like Blinn, GTTX, Phong...) which are approximations of reality, but never reality itself. Another thing it's that Vray makes every calculation as linear space (gamma 1.0) to get correct results. And no color space it's applied unless the user specifies it. You DO have a virtual frame buffer which applies a correction gamma curve just so that you can see a correct "preview" of what you have. Also, Vray works with wide gamut, it doesn't use Lab as one might suppose. Still, I found it hard to understand how to work with ACES. wouldn't be better to just export your linear images and after post-production export to whatever format you want?
I Know this vid i a year old now, but i have a question. In fusion you turn your . exr render in arnold ACEScg from C4D and you then put the IDT to ACEScg to ACEScc and play with the color space to your taste, then you put the ODT from ACEScc to Rec 709 or what ever. In AE ACEScc plays a role? or not? like in this tut? Thanks
Currently im working on some stuff, and yeah Linear workflow checked with 32bit exr. i just realize, why VC optical flares cant respond the color? i find the dead-end of it, im cheating it with Profile color converter each passes with linearize turn off. please give me some advice how to combine Lens FX while Linearize fiture turnON. Thanks
Does anyone have troubles with H264 export following the settings indicated in the video? (32bits, sRGB, Linear, Compensate) my exports are always washed out and the solutions I found on internet do not work, that's driving me nuts :/
*WOW, Is that a real decoration?! ( the moving lights on the right of the video)* *And If it's real, where can I find it?!!* *Please!! ,.... I want it so badly!!* 😱😱
Hello. Thank you so much for uploading new video. I found you recently, and you inspired me to start working with 3D ( im graphic design student ) . Im already in progress, making cartoon. And im struggling with one thing - how to make water splash effects, when person is walking in rainy road ( once he hits puddle with his foot n shit ). Can I get some tips, where i could find more information? Thank you!
Looking at octane documentation “neutral response” only affects the image when the “camera response” adds color tint. Neutral response: “Only the tint color will be cancelled if you make it active.” They also specifically say to set the response to sRGB and a gamma of 1 in the camera imager and suggest converting sRGB image texture to a gamma of 1.
Here's to me going 3 projects after making the linear workflow settings change in AE and just now realizing it doesn't save the change as default, so I have been doing projects without linear workflow set. I had to save a blank project and make that the new project default template.
Hi , I am a new comer for Advanced compositing softwares . I want lo learn nuke but fusion is becoming popular in the industry , So i have been finding about thees softwares . What are the main different of these softwares ? If i start learning fusion , will it improve than nuke ?
Man this work is too hard when starting, but all the hardwork is worth the wait and effort. All I want to say is thanks Andrey. Thank you for being a good teacher. Although my mind is totally effed up right now because of not getting realistic renders. But all my worries goes away when I watch your videos. Peace. And hey at least give 2 vids per month😋😋 they are tasty. Btw nice Color grading.
i andrew lebrov i like so much your channel and your work and i love your advice you said in your old video in how to learn cgi and vfx and i want to ask you if you can do a tutorial of how to animate character in an amazing way like pixar or dreamworks (example)
Wow, after a long time, finally now I understand linear workflow. C4D and Octane render used to look really bad but now I get it how linear workflow helps. Thank you. Andrey Lebrov
Hey Andrey, i'd love to see a somewhat deep video on gamma. It is an astonishing complex mathematical concept. Also, imma jump in the wish wagon. People seem interested in what you say, so a couple of videos on fundamentals will be great. Like a chapter on noises, and why Ken Perlin is a god. Jk. But understanding noises is a key skill in CG. Those kind of modular knowledge will play a big part on later stages in the career of a CG artists. And that's why I despise simplistic, value by value tutorials (I'm looking at you, Greyscale Gorilla).
Did you make any tests comparing 16bit exr vs 32bit? Is there some significant benefit of saving in 32? I’ve heard that it’s only valuable for some “very specific post-production situations”, I guess it’s like extreme color corrections when turning night render into day.
Just gained a new subscriber. Maybe you could show us how to do this on Davinci Resolve. Trying to find the best workflow for displaying the best and highest possible quality image out of the Ursa Mini 4.6K. Thanks for this very informative tutorial and keep it up friend.
CG is composited slightly differently in at a vfx house using subtractive compositing. So instead of adding together all the passes, we subtract them from the beauty, do our changes, and add them back on. By the way, they shouldn't need to be composited in a particular order, CG passes are designed to be purely additive, no special blend modes required.
Subtractive compositing is beneficial because of this: Say you have a scene with multiple lights, GI, reflections, refractions, SSS, volumetrics, hell even caustics. With an additive workflow, you'd need to have a pass for each of them just so that you can add it all together to recreate the beauty. But what if you know you only need to modify say, the reflections? Including all those passes is a waste of disk space, and a total overcomplication. With subtractive, you can just render your beauty and a reflection pass, subtract the reflection from the beauty, do your adjustment, and add it back on top.
That’s interesting, never tried it :) thanks
Stop stop stop...what? Subtract it from the beauty, make changes and add it back on top? How, lets say inside AE, would i have to do this? Veeeeery interesting!
Cool, Peter! Thanks for sharing. What would be the blending mode to subtract the passes correctly from the beauty?
In AE you stack the pass which you wish to modify on top of the beauty pass, using blending mode substract. Then duplicate that specific pass on top, add your effects on it and add it back in blending mode linear dodge :)
@@AlexSuperBasic Thanks, Alex!
Fixing the AE color settings to make the linear EXR images actually look nice... Thank you for this video... can't believe how much tinkering I did in C4D trying to figure out something that was an AE problem.
I don't know much about some things that you say but i still learn quite a lot from you! Love your videos 👍👌
yooooooo this guy is an alien. Straight from Another world. BOSS
Man you are beast and best, надеюсь одного дня я буду хотя-бы близок к твоему уровню в этом ремесле:)
Lovely tutorial - cutting through the bull as usual. Excellent job.
This is how I know your a great CG artist. I thought the final render of the desk was a photo not a model.
hahaha I'm glad it wasn't just me. Great no-nonsense tutorial 🙌
Yes me too! that blew me away lol
Boom! He's back and now I got goose bumps. Thanks man, awesome work!
You are back!!!!! Awesome 💜💜💜
Спасибо за туториал! Для новичков очень полезно
really interesting ! thank you so much for this video.
outstanding, please do more Fusion. thanks
Very helpful man! Cheers!
Always a pleasure 👊🏻
Great video, thanks!
Perfect explain... One question.. you are using Fusion right.. but now fusion integrated in Davinci Resolve 15 So how Different they are.. I think you are using Resolve too because I saw thumbnail one of your video.. And also How to do linear workflow in resolve.. I know too many demands..😁 do your best.. love you.
Fusion in Resolve is rather limiting. So it's a tool just to do something very quickly rather than a decent compositing tool. I use both Premiere and Resolve depending on the project :) ACES workflow in resolve is what you're looking for ;)
@@AndreyLebrov Perfect!
@@AndreyLebrov sorry bro, what's your thoughts now
Thank you SOOOO much!!!!
Now your room looks sick yo!
Nice, glafd to see you back. But still I don't get why to use linear apart from blending the fire in lenear dodge? If you open the color picker - it looks ridiculous in linear mode.
I am big fan of your voice my buddy!
just love it....
Great thanks.
Yasss is back! jeje
Hi Andrey! Smooth video as always man! What rendering engine do you recommend for architecture instead of most comun programs? Like 3Dmax+vray/corona, lumion, blender... What's your suggest? I'm pretty sure there's more than one who has the same question. Greetings from México.
I was very comfortable with Vray in my archviz days. Nowadays I would go with Redshift probably because there are no limits in terms of scene load.
thanks i never understood linear workflow
Damn your cgi room look nice
It's been a long time 😁
The intro 🐍🐍.
..
Do I need to set my Image Textures to a gamma of 1.0 when working in Octane for Cinema 4D?
Please linear workflow tutorial with log footage with aftereffects!
Should I put in response to sRGB or gamma 2.2 in non-linear scenarios? On Linear, it looks like crap in the Live Viewer.
So far I work without After Effects. I want to change that.
love your intro...can you tell me song name ?
Hey Andrey! Thank you for this ! By the way there is always some kind of doubt whenever I am going to export stuff from AE in pro res. It never match up with what I am seeing In the AE viewport. Any hints on the correct workflow ? There is a lot of confusion on the web about this !!
Andrey, Octane got deep image compositing support, will you enlighten us with a video ?
I’ll make a comprehensive one when 2019 version will be out :)
@@AndreyLebrovyou are just bying time . :-)
They release a new version right after I’m publishing comprehensive features overview of the previous one 😂 not going to happen again
How do in nuke srgb pass comping
4:00 When he pulled up C4D and I saw the computer and desk setup as CG, I was like, "wait! That was CG??!! WOW!"
Thanks mate. There will be a case study featuring that room :)
I left my dinner to watch this. Totally worth it.
i ate my dinner while watching this ;D
@@mystorical1998 I guess one of us had dinner 😂
Hitman is back!!!
OMG! You are back I'm so happy 😁
This is the second time now that I've wanted some knowledge on a topic and lo and behold you upload a video within seconds. *WHAT IS THIS SORCERY!?!?*
The new logo reveal.. *LOVE IT*
Woah the room is dark now, I DIG IT.
А вот почему все пасы с октана у меня были такими темными.... А я просто всегда поднимал white point до 0,3. Благодарю за эту информацию.
Awesome! Can't wait for you to touch on ACES Colour Management. It can get pretty technical with the different IDTs and ODTs. Its something I want to get my head around completely in my next personal project so would be a great to hear an explaination from a c4d/octane user rather than from Alex Fry's technical look at the Lego movie stuff on the ACES Academy channel.
Ах вооот в чём проблема... А я то думаю, почему ж у меня всё тёмное то такое? Спасибо!)))
Super excited to see you again!
Thank you Andrey!! But what do you think about "Blend using Gamma 1.0" in AE? Did you use it? Because Linear working space in AE don't work properly with some plugins like Element 3D and Optical flares, for example.
Also, I know so much people talking about linear workflow, but Andrew Kramer for some reason doesn't work linear. At least in all his tutorials and workflow videos. Anyone knows why? Thanks!
He doesn't work in it because there is no need, his workflow is procedural these days :) As for the plugins that doesn't work in 32 bits... that's why you might want to switch to a true 3D Compositing software like Fusion or Nuke.
the ae ui is so bad and illogical holyshit.
uh Andrey goes ultrawide nice!
Is that script for fusion just an open source lua script? If so a very small modification could be made to replace the random order with one based on priority depending on pass name. A simple case insensitive string contains check for lets say the word "beauty" would suffice.
*Thnx a lot.. You give a lot of information in a short video*
2:1 ratio, dynamic lighting and another kickass video. What have we done to deserve such greatness!
You're the greatest support :)
Nice video great as usual will share with the Lighter here :) thanks, But I have to say Linear workflow is one thing and exr output one completely other thing, in production we use a lot 16Bit exr as Zips to save space and also you can find enough range for the 3D compositing. as long you don't render tonnemapped exrs. For HDR (lighting) aswell displacement, 16Bit is not that bad (as many people think) Can work perfect with small size files with big videos and the difference is not that visible by naked eye.
never clicked a video faster
You think it would be possible to create your famous Jar into Fusion (Resolve)?
Fusion's workflow completely wrong.. And those passes of light which includes diffuse data is ok, too.. I believe you just don't have a big needs and expierence of compositing in fusion, but for further tries - keep your category passes (like diffuse, reflections, coat, refractions etc) to be additive (in fusion you need to set alpha gain to 0 in a merge node), and your light passes to be multiplied (set Multiply in a merge node). All the rest is ok.
what is that thing glittering thing
on right behind you
CGI
Interesting. I'm kinda baffled how poor EXR support is in these professional™ tools (PS, AE, Fusion). Why do they require so much brainless work to get the settings right & not shoot yourself in the foot? OpenEXR has been out since 2003 (!), open-source reference implementation and all.
Why can't AE just import all layers as passes, with names & mode set automatically? Why do you need to tell Fusion that the "green" channel is, _in fact,_ the green channel? _How can PS get away with requiring a third party plugin to even import the file?_
Are VFX people (ILM, Disney, Pixar, ...) the only ones who care about linear? Is there even another format for it that's worth mentioning? (Some "RAW" formats support it, but afaiu they're a complete non-standardized mess.)
your fireflies died at 3:52 for 2 frames :(
You are my hero and so I think, as Vray user, could help any newcomer to get some things. Right now Vray, and probably every render engine out there it's actually biased. The fact that uses progressive sampler doesn't imply that it's unbiased. So for those who don't know. Unbiased will be a render engine that gives the same importance to every ray cast made. Not only that but also that calculates that path in every bounce until that ray has no more energy. Because this would be inefficient unless you are doing scientific work, all renderers use a biased solution. And all renderers are NOT physically correct. The fact it's proven because they use models (like Blinn, GTTX, Phong...) which are approximations of reality, but never reality itself.
Another thing it's that Vray makes every calculation as linear space (gamma 1.0) to get correct results. And no color space it's applied unless the user specifies it. You DO have a virtual frame buffer which applies a correction gamma curve just so that you can see a correct "preview" of what you have. Also, Vray works with wide gamut, it doesn't use Lab as one might suppose.
Still, I found it hard to understand how to work with ACES. wouldn't be better to just export your linear images and after post-production export to whatever format you want?
I Know this vid i a year old now, but i have a question. In fusion you turn your . exr render in arnold ACEScg from C4D and you then put the IDT to ACEScg to ACEScc and play with the color space to your taste, then you put the ODT from ACEScc to Rec 709 or what ever. In AE ACEScc plays a role? or not? like in this tut? Thanks
Currently im working on some stuff, and yeah Linear workflow checked with 32bit exr. i just realize, why VC optical flares cant respond the color? i find the dead-end of it, im cheating it with Profile color converter each passes with linearize turn off. please give me some advice how to combine Lens FX while Linearize fiture turnON. Thanks
Does anyone have troubles with H264 export following the settings indicated in the video? (32bits, sRGB, Linear, Compensate) my exports are always washed out and the solutions I found on internet do not work, that's driving me nuts :/
Lets support this guy to make more videos! 😁 THX! You are awsome!
*WOW, Is that a real decoration?! ( the moving lights on the right of the video)*
*And If it's real, where can I find it?!!*
*Please!! ,.... I want it so badly!!* 😱😱
No, it's not, it's CGI. I don't recall the video in which he said it. Probably the Q&A one. 🙃
not real =) cgi
Hello. Thank you so much for uploading new video. I found you recently, and you inspired me to start working with 3D ( im graphic design student ) . Im already in progress, making cartoon. And im struggling with one thing - how to make water splash effects, when person is walking in rainy road ( once he hits puddle with his foot n shit ). Can I get some tips, where i could find more information? Thank you!
Thanks a lot Andrew! This will be clearly usefull for my next project!
Looking at octane documentation “neutral response” only affects the image when the “camera response” adds color tint. Neutral response: “Only the tint color will be cancelled if you make it active.” They also specifically say to set the response to sRGB and a gamma of 1 in the camera imager and suggest converting sRGB image texture to a gamma of 1.
Here's to me going 3 projects after making the linear workflow settings change in AE and just now realizing it doesn't save the change as default, so I have been doing projects without linear workflow set.
I had to save a blank project and make that the new project default template.
idk why, but in my AE 2023 when i click in the EXTractor, nothing happens...
The order of the passes shouldn't matter, since addition is commutative. 5+1=6 and 1+5=6.
Hi , I am a new comer for Advanced compositing softwares . I want lo learn nuke but fusion is becoming popular in the industry , So i have been finding about thees softwares . What are the main different of these softwares ? If i start learning fusion , will it improve than nuke ?
thank you mr. andrey, what about export (render) in after effect? what is the best option for export video & photo?
Can you give some rendering tips in cinema 4d ,excluding the use of octane renderer,because the quality of your 3d videos are astonishing .
What if want my Octane camera imager on a different setting, and not on Gamma 1.2? Will I still be able to achieve same control over the passes?
This is game-changing for me personally. This almost feels like a cheat code. Is there a way to do this with the c4d native renderer?
MAN, YOU ARE THE DIFFERENT LEVEL OF ADUCATiON!! YOU ARE THE BEST DUDE. HONER TO WATCH YOU..
how do you work with highlight compression from octane in linear workflow. I find that it's not baking into the exr files.
wow, so thats why AE was showing my renders alot darker, so i just started exporting tonemapped instead haha
Man this work is too hard when starting, but all the hardwork is worth the wait and effort. All I want to say is thanks Andrey. Thank you for being a good teacher. Although my mind is totally effed up right now because of not getting realistic renders. But all my worries goes away when I watch your videos. Peace. And hey at least give 2 vids per month😋😋 they are tasty. Btw nice Color grading.
I been locked in a room watching your videos for like 3 hours so far
i andrew lebrov i like so much your channel and your work and i love your advice you said in your old video in how to learn cgi and vfx and i want to ask you if you can do a tutorial of how to animate character in an amazing way like pixar or dreamworks (example)
Man this is pure gold tutorial! tnx soo...fucking much!
This is really important work you're doing for this particular community. Really appreciate you for it!
Wow, after a long time, finally now I understand linear workflow. C4D and Octane render used to look really bad but now I get it how linear workflow helps. Thank you. Andrey Lebrov
My man is back!!! Dam I missed your vids (´༎ຶོρ༎ຶོ`)
Thanks for all the info. Really helped me to manage colour space workflow.
What font are you using in that intro? Look like a less wonky version of Biennale Bold, and I want it, haha
The fireflies in the jar are missing for two frames at 3:52 :D
They went for lunch 🤔😆
Do you set the images textures to gamma 1.0?
Ay what is that bouncing light thing in the background🤔 can i buy it ftom anywhere?
i hope that u make more tutorial like this. It's fucking awesome bro
yeah that great andy please more turtorial abut this and ae composition dont forgot little houdin 😀
Hey Andrey, i'd love to see a somewhat deep video on gamma. It is an astonishing complex mathematical concept.
Also, imma jump in the wish wagon. People seem interested in what you say, so a couple of videos on fundamentals will be great. Like a chapter on noises, and why Ken Perlin is a god. Jk. But understanding noises is a key skill in CG. Those kind of modular knowledge will play a big part on later stages in the career of a CG artists. And that's why I despise simplistic, value by value tutorials (I'm looking at you, Greyscale Gorilla).
Did you make any tests comparing 16bit exr vs 32bit? Is there some significant benefit of saving in 32? I’ve heard that it’s only valuable for some “very specific post-production situations”, I guess it’s like extreme color corrections when turning night render into day.
You’re right :) 16 is enough for most tasks. You have to figure it out yourself really considering your project and hardware
Just gained a new subscriber. Maybe you could show us how to do this on Davinci Resolve. Trying to find the best workflow for displaying the best and highest possible quality image out of the Ursa Mini 4.6K. Thanks for this very informative tutorial and keep it up friend.
Check out my video about ACES mate. Should get you started 😊 hope that helps
Hit Render (Wait 48 minutes) Boom!
Ооо, спасибо за новый полезный урок, давно хотел про это узнать по подробней)))
Andrey, the new intro looks fantastic!~
Thanks :P
Environment layer doesn't work like others... It just looks weird and overlays everything...
Please help!!!
Ok I didn't even expect that room to be CG