Three Short Arguments on The Secret of Monkey Island
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 лют 2018
- patreon: / innuendostudios
tumblr: / innuendostudios
twitter: / innuendostudios
transcript: innuendostudios.tumblr.com/pos...
additional video sources:
Dilandau3000
THE SCUMM BAR
World of Longplays - Розваги
"It could have been so much longer, you have no idea."
I would watch the shit out of an extended Monkey Island series.
great time to do it now with Ron back
Absotutely
looking forward to the sequel, "Three Enormously Long Arguments on the Secret of Monkey Island"
Three part video, each part being 1 and half hour long.
And finally, "The Three Second-Biggest Arrrrguments on The Secret of LeChuck Strikes the Curse of Monkey Island Mega-Monkey - Being A Tale of Swashbuckling Adventure Games (But With More Puzzles)"
@@guidofedeli851 I'd watch the shit out of all six parts of that.
@@professeurgideere5856Three mind-numbingly verbose arguments on The Secret of Monkey Island
ian give it to us it's been six years
I keep coming back to this video because it really illustrates so eloquently how great this game is. However, there is one area I contend with slightly. Putting all the necessary items to be able to choose any trial to do in any order is a great bit of design, however in my experience watching countless blind let's plays of the game (and helping my girlfriend play it), nearly every single person ignores the kitchen after the chef yells at them not to go in and then goes on to be stuck for hours cause not a single puzzle can be solved without going in there.
"and swordfighting takes place entirely in the dialogue system, because how else would you gamify an Errol Flynn movie?"
- You're using Bonetti's Defense against me, huh?
- I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.
- Naturally. You must expect me to attack with Capo Ferro!
- Naturally. But I find that Thibault cancels out Capo Ferro. Don't you?
- Unless the enemy has studied his Agrippa... Which I have.
I have no nostalgic attachments to this game.
The first time I played The Secret of Monkey Island, it was in 2016, and it was the remastered edition with Dominic Armato voicing Guybrush.
So when I say that SMI is one of the my favorite games of all time, then know that I am not influenced by any past memories.
I got it for free on the Xbox 360, and was kinda turned off. "A point-and-click adventure game? I don't wanna pixel-hunt and spend hours figuring out puzzles." But then I played it, and I was charmed like no other game had ever charmed me before. The game was so damn funny and clever, it blew me away. All the puzzles were surprisingly intuitive, and played into the world-building.
I then went on to play all the other Monkey Island games. And believe me, trying to play The Curse of Monkey Island and Escape from Monkey Island in 2017 is NOT easy. But I still loved them. I loved all of them. I get what you said about Guybrush and Elaine in the later games. But c'moooon. It's good fun. It's super fun to play.
Curse is somewhat ok bcs of El Pollo Diablo, but I'd leave the others alone.
Lucasarts made some other adventure games that are very good as well.
I'm surprised you talked about "something that will attract attention but has no real importance" being a theme and didn't mention how the game suggests that this applies to itself with the "Never pay more than $20 for a computer game," line at the end.
Ah, de 90s, rigth now is 60-80 + dlc
@@sas3dx The price for the brand new (Ron Gilbert doing it) one is 22,99€, So... Maybe that's 19,99 in USD?
I don't think it's any coincidence that one of the few classic adventure games whose narrative has consistent themes is also one of the few classic adventure games which is still fondly remembered to this day. The importance of theme is something that's hard to explain in a UA-cam comment, but the short of it is that you need a theme to build your story around, so it all has one coherent _something_ that the audience is left with when it's all over.
Note: Contrary to popular belief, a theme and a moral are not the same thing. A theme is just a subject. This can be a message, but it can also be a question, which the story sets out to answer, or even just a concept which the story explores.
I come back to this video every few days so I can remember what a well-argued, well-researched, well-written video essay ("essay" in the truest sense) looks like. It's very, very clear that when the author says that he has spent a lifetime playing and thinking about the game, he's a) not exaggerating b) not saying it to score credibility points, but that he's providing real personal background which is the foundation for the whole argument presented. Lots of videos on game history and analysis are either rephrasings or fancy presentations of encyclopedic facts and news articles, and while there's nothing wrong with that, I don't think they truly qualify as essays. This one certainly does.
I know this all sounds kiss-ass-y, but whatever. Keep up the good work, man.
*By now I think Ian already knows this, but Ron Gilbert has linked to this video in his blog.
Have you watched @thewhyfiles ? It's a bunch of well-argued, well-researched, well-written video essays!
The theme of Monkey Island is summed up in one line: Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
Looks like nihilism is a common theme to Ron Gilbert's games. The nihilist conclusion to Thumbleweed Park left me very unsatisfied and a bit sad for the characters.
It's kinda funny. I enjoyed watching Monkey Island as a kid being played by a Let's Player and not minding the messiness of the game's story but fast forward into my teens and Thimbleweed Park left me disappointed for having the exact same lack of focus.
So, the way you feel about Monkey Island 1 is (sorta) the way I feel about The Curse of Monkey Island. It was my first adventure game, and I love it to bits. I can see many of the strengths of MI1, but it just doesn't have the same charm to me. Which may also colour what follows.
But I have to disagree with your portrayal of Elaine in CMI. I don't see her as a damsel in distress. This is a story of Guybrush causing Elaine all sorts of problems. Opening scene: Elaine is handling LeChuck pretty well, when suddenly Guybrush comes sailing into the fray, and gets captured by LeChuck. Then, when he - accidentally - manages to get off LeChuck's ship, he gets her cursed - and, because he didn't hide a solid gold statue on an island full of pirates, she gets stolen by a bunch of... let's call them pirates. Then he manages to get rid of the curse, but because he hasn't been careful, he's led LeChuck's henchmen straight to Elaine.
In other words, if Guybrush hadn't been in the picture, Elaine would have repelled LeChuck, and been safe and sound in her fortress.
Monkey Island 2 .. the whole story started only because he needed to brag around about defeating LeChuck. He even met Largo only because he started to realized that his LeChuck stories just started to bore the s**t out of people and he needs to get something better.
7:45 "One must imagine Sisyphus happy" -Albert Camus
I have never seen anyone talk about this side of Monkey Island and never have thought of it myself, this is incredible!
I didn't know there was a "every cook makes substituotion" line until now; however, it was pretty obvious in the Part II segment. Setup & Pay off: the ending is resolved with a substitution too
I'm a Monkey Island fan, and that observation about the three trials being there "for the sake of it" is the most eye-opening thing I've ever seen in relation to the series.
My hat's off, good sir. Good stuff.
I could literally listen to you talk about the Monkey Island series for hours. Please, make more.
Boy, this was really good. And the part about Guybrush and Elaine's characters and relationship is like, entirely true. That was the perfect way of describing them overall.
i wish it had been so much longer!! i'd love to watch you gush about stuff you like
I think most of your fans appreciate longer videos. You do video essays, the longer the better.
Didn't you notice the "I could literally bore you to death" undertone of "it could've been so much longer"? :p
Longer isn't always better. This was a good video imo.
I think it's often a side-effect of a thing being good that you're let craving for more.
I double that, I even watched the essay twice just because I didn't have enough of it.
His long videos sure are long, but they're also PACKED. They move at the same rate as this video, there's just more points floating around.
30 years today.
I sometimes come back and watch this video, the analysis is really great and it perfectly hits various nails on their head.
I just recently thought about your points about how Guybrush's whole adventure was rather pointless (regarding his goal) and how 2, 3 and ToMI made it a theme, that the adventure Guybrush has to go on is because he messed up. Glad to see someone touching that subject as well! Please, do more and longer arguments on Monkey Island!
(Also, nice insert of Seaside Rendezvous there. ;D)
This must be the best analysis of anything I've seen or read in my entire life. Possibly the best thing I've seen on UA-cam ever. This didn't just make my day, it revolutionized my view on the entire life I've lived since I played Monkey Island the first time ~28 years ago. Needless to say, the game had a monumental impact on my adolescent life and every pixel and sinus wave of its existence is burned into my memory like no other art or cultural experience I've had before or after. That entire memory just got a huge wiggle and gained 4-8 new levels of abstractions and perspectives. I don't know how many since I'm not yet done digesting this. It will probably take me months. Mindblowing!
I didn’t realize how weird it was that Elaine was pretty much relegated to playing “damsel in distress” after the second game until you pointed it out.
Your interpretation of her and Guybrush’s relationship is adorable btw
The point about how the later games treat Elaine was really interesting. I played the games wildly out of order (4, 3, 1, Tales, 2, I think), so while I had some sense that she was a very inconsistent character, I hadn't realized there was this dividing line between 2 and 3.
Still, 3 will probably always be my favorite.
CMI is def my favorite
@@natewilson111 Heretics!
Was waiting for you to upload! Welcome back man!
Monkey Island 2 was my first Monkey Island and remains my favorite. I think both of the first two did a lot of things right.
To be fair to Monkey Island Three, you may rescue Elaine at one point but it's more a "Oh man, I fucked up really badly and need to fix my mistake" moment. She's a capable and strong character throughout the game, though you sadly don't get to see her too much.
Honestly I might have been more into Elaine's role in MI3 if there was more Elaine with agency in the game. It's one thing to lampshade and subvert a trope and another to lampshade it yet functionally ending up in the same place as the usual faithful applications of the trope.
My expectation at the beginning of MI3 was that I as a player would finally get to hear not only Guybrush but Elaine as well, but mostly what ended up on my plate was her absence.
That's one of the reasons the unfinished ending to that game is such a sore point for me. They planned a cutscene between Part Five and Part Six where, just as Guybrush shows up, Elaine escapes, steals LeChuck's sword, and starts fighting his minions. Guybrush is sent on the Rollercoaster of Death, but Elaine shoots the lever to switch the tracks so he ends up in the rollercoaster puzzle in Part Six rather than being sent into lava and turning into a skeletal minion. But the production team ran up against deadlines, and that scene was never made. (The ending of the game is terribly truncated for the same reason; they were going to put in another musical number.)
@@spinningchrysalis4061 that's why I don't think grouping MI3 with Escape and Tales is fair - even though the main portion of the plot revolves around saving Elaine with no presence from her, it's not really rescuing her from LeChuck but more of fixing your own mistake like OP said, and when she is actually captured by LeChuck she manages to escape on her own (just like in MI1) and actually helps or even saves Guybrush, so MI3 actually does MI1 Elaine justice and doesn't butcher the character as is implied in the video. If only they included that cutscene!
18:23 And it could have been so much longer then?
Perhaps you should make a second set of arguments like this if the mood strikes you. I'd probably enjoy that as well!
Glad to see you're still making quality stuff. Keep it up.
Omg this video is so amazing. I don’t even really care about video games that much but the care you put into your critical analysis of some random thing you just happen to love so much reveals so much about art and life and the human experience and god damnit IT MAKES ME CARE ABOUT THIS GAME TOO! Stellar job, so happy to be a patron. 👏🏻
Watching your other videos, there was always a tiny relatable sense of familiarity that drew me to them. Knowing what a potent impact The Secret of Monkey Island™ had on your formative years, it makes a lot of sense. There's something about this work that buries itself deep in your brain and continues to have a subtle effect on you for years to come. Thank you for making this. I can't imagine a more loving and thoughtful exploration of a title that's probably the closest to my heart, especially after all these years.
Got so excited when I saw that Innuendo Studios uploaded a new video
Listening to you talk about one of your favorite things always makes me WANT to make a video essay just so I could talk at length about one of mine.
Thanks for sharing ✨
I so love that this was my first video I found of yours, allowed me to follow your channel in practically natural lifetime progression p:
It'll forever be my favorite franchise in video game history.
Brilliant stuff!
Thanks so much for putting this out there!
Wonderful review! I had the same issues with MI2 and Elaine's portrayal in the sequels as you did, but thought I was in the minority since MI franchise was such a big hit.
Your analysis of the game's theme and the way that adventure game mechanics are structured in this game is pure brilliance! I've been playing those games for ages and I never thought about it!
Excelent analysis! It has been a pleasure to watch and digest. Congrats!
Interesting video to watch after RTMI. I won't spoil anything, but I think its incredible how this video stands with the new context RTMI provides.
Great video, man. I enjoy your game dissections. Keep it up
This is that rare kind of wonderful video which seems to keep getting better, right the way to the final line :)
All: A pirate I was meant to be!
All: Trim the sails and roam the sea!
I'm 42 and this video makes perfect sense.
Keep making videos - you enact a sort of higher-role narrative that we all knew, but never spoke up...
I akin this video to both "entering the world map after Midgar" and "the holy shit, you can click the view screen?" in The Witness. Both are essentially puzzle based hunts, but each developer, separated by both geography and time, definitely started as Guybrush.
I agree.
Well done! This video really explains why I love this game so much and still do to this day, it's a masterpiece.
5 was the first one I played, and then mi1, so I have more nostalgia for 5, but 1's pretty good too. This video really makes me wanna replay them.
I think that the best content is made by people who are extremely passionate about a creative work or works that I have no knowledge about whatsoever
Wow dude. Watching this made my day. Your analysis is amazing, and god bless the lack of objectivity (although it's not only passional but also very clever and lucid analysis). Hugs from Argentina.
I didn't know I could love this game more, but you just made it. Thank you for this,
Good to see you making videos!
In Curse Elaine rescues herself. Lechuck said she escaped while he tried to bring her to the gates of Big Whoop. Also, in Tales she let herself be possessed by Lechuck because being rescued by Guybrush was her plan at that point.
All games made Elaine justice
Loved this episode! Thank you for your very funny and interesting analysis!
this man steady coming out with relevant content. This game was a favorite of mine as a kid
I swear to god, if you had more videos like this, or related to culture and art in general (tomatoes or how not to define art, begginers artist, things of beauty:smash) you would be amazing, or at least even more amazing! Really great video, and thank you so much for making it, specially since i havent played any monkey island game yet...
IM SO HAPPY!! new vid + its about one of my fav games!
Just throwing this out there: If you're digging for a topic for another Co-Vid, I'd be really interested in hearing some more Monkey Island takes. I love all the videos on this channel, but I've listened to this one more than any other.
Really interesting video (as always)
Your game analyses are the best :D
I love when you explain how gameplay has meaning in a game ^^
Great video, definetly could watch a longer version
Such a wonderful video! You should do more video essays like this.
Great video! Good point about Guybrush being a dick in Lehcuck's Revenge. That's actually my favorite version of the character. I enjoy that I can choose (via the dialogue tree) how much of a jerk I want Guybrush to be. The comments he makes range from deadpan to mildly sarcastic to down-right cruel. And the other characters will respond to him in different ways based on what he says to them. I used to save and reload the game to see all the different responces. This was lost with the later games where every line was recorded by voice actors. There are less dialog choices and the player can select them one-after-the-other so that almost every line that is written and recorded is playable. This makes sense because why waste money on actor recording sessions if a good percentage of the dialogue will not be heard on one playthrough, but it was a sad loss for the characterization and opportunity for jokes.
"And it could have been so much longer, you have no idea'
I definitely now want the longer version!! :)
The entire King's Quest series save III, V and VII leans on placing the character in an open environment in which they can walk in every direction from the very beginning of the game. In III this opens up once you get rid of the Wizard. KQ1 was particularly open ended. This is an almost Castlevania structure, released two years before Metroid was released.
I grew up playing Curse of Monkey Island, and personally I do like it much more than the 1st or 2nd, however I totally get your viewpoint on how Elaine shouldn't be a damsel. That being said, I never saw her as a damsel in Curse because I saw it as guybrush just messing up his relationship and fixing it. I also just want to add, that to me what makes these games one of my all time favorite series is the music and that I guess I was born a futzer 😂
Great video. Brought back good memories. I only played the remastered version for the phone though.
Very nicely put together too
You probably won't read this, but this was game design therapy for me. I too loved this game, and I think this game among other media formed my sense of humor and overall philosophy on life. I would describe myself as an absurdist nihilist, but that's only slightly related. I'm an avid tabletop RPG fan and have written and run numerous adventures over the past twenty five or so years. This video blew my mind. This is how I write my games and this is exactly why my friends who are futzers and are about the journey more than the destination love my games, but why they fall flat when I run them at conventions or less close friends. My critics are frequently asking, "What's the point of this campaign?", or "Wait, we never could complete the assigned task, but only defeat the villain?". I'm not as talented as the makers of TSOMI, because they pulled this off well and in a satisfying way where I've generally failed. This now gives me some ways to write for strangers in a better way. You've revealed in 19 minutes something that I've been puzzling over for decades. (Also I think this explains a similar divide over the show Lost, The Last Jedi and other divisive media, but that's a whole other essay.)
One of the best explanations I've heard so far.
A+ video, I never thought I'd hear anything like this about Monkey Island but I'm glad I was wrong lol
I also wouldn't mind a longer vid on this, you obviously love this game a lot and it reflects in how you talk about it!
I also think the design of Part I is brilliant but not necessarily perfect. The most glaring problem is the way the Guybrush-Elaine love scene is played out. When Guybrush emerges from the bottom of the ocean, he reunites with Governor and kindle their love for each other. This is one of the most pivotal scene of the entire game and a huge narrative device that propels the entire remaining portion of the game. But if a hapless gamer chooses to solve this puzzle (i.e., art of theivery) last for whatever reason (one-in-three chance), then this entire cutscene gets skipped because Guybrush discovers that Elaine is kidnapped right after he gets out of the water. And the pivotal dialog between the Guybrush and Elaine is replaced with a short monologue by Guybrush alone (basically amounting to "She's gone but now I realize that my love for her is real and I must go rescue her!"). This means, a full one third of the people who have played this game may have missed this important scene and never fully understood the special bond that these two characters shared.
Yay! I was just thinking about how cool it would be if there was a new upload! It's so fun to be spoiled :3
I have never played Monkey Island but how you describe the guy sounds pretty much like a good metaphor for gamers. There is no real point to gaming besides the adventure. You usually dont gain anything useful outside of the game.
As a player you know your abilities are limited. You dont have the power to rewrite the rules/code.
But you want to experience the adventure so play along even when it doesnt make sense or there would be smarter ways that are just not implemented. We do what works within the rules of the game so we can progress in the adventure.
A super interesting analysis in a way that I have never seen before. Very good everything.
Oh how much i have missed your videos
I love how if you futz your way through Siege of Dragonspear, you character begins to question why they are carrying around weird items they haven't been asked for....
Love all of your videos man.
It's the only adventure game I keep coming back to and re-playing, and having one helluwa fun ride each time. It's just so bloody fun and well designed. And it fills me with wonderous nostalgia and sparks my imagination on every play-through, even though I know exactly what is going to happen. I just seem to sit and think "Uuuuh, now comes the part with..." and being excited for that particular comment from Guybrush or that particular item to land in my inventory. It's really quite odd. But I love it!
This video provided some interesting in-sight to the game that I hadn't considered before. It's neat stuff!
It could've been so much longer but it isn't?! ;___;
Fantastic work as always, love it to bits
Very well thought out. The short arguments make sense even psychological sense. I have played MI 1, 2, 3 (Curse of MI) & 4 (Escape from MI) and seen 5 (Tales of MI). I got MI 1 & 2 when it first came out .
The PC speaker theme at the end hits right in the kokoro.
For everyone who nodded along to the music during the title card sections (great illustrations, by the by), this one can wholeheartedly recommend the full performance from Janne Lassila (and the rest of the musicians, including the woman playing the accordion for "Jojo the Monkey").
Great stuff as always. Cheers. :)
I'm late to the party as usual, but it's refreshing to hear soon-to-be else was poetically about the game that singlehandedly shaped my love of adventure games
Awesome video! Curse will probably always be my favorite due to its beautiful art and music, as well as the unique melancholic atmosphere in the back-half... but you've given me a greater appreciation of Secret.
If anyone's considering playing the original two games, I highly recommend looking into the Talkie edition, which allows you to play with the original graphics and Special Edition voice acting simultaneously.
I really like your interpretations!
It's not head-canon, my friend, it's a well reasoned and insightful analysis. Loved this video.
Wow.... that was deep. And I thought I've got this games figured down long ago, but this? Great stuff!
I would have watched for so much longer, you have no idea :)
Dude that was actually really interesting, didn't think I'd hear anything I didn't know about MI1 before haha awesome!!
I genuinely enjoyed the entire series (I was introduced to the series backwards, and it was a great romp regardless). But you're observations are spot on to take criticism in the later series, and point and click games as a whole.
Secret of Monkey Island had a lot of fun rhyme to their reason (even if was through puns, word plays, and honest to goodness detective work) which a lot of other point and click games, or ones that had evolved from point and click, tend to fall short on.
Then do a longer one!! I'd certainly love it
Great Video. The thesis presented in Part 2 is as immaculate as MI's design and I couldn't agree more with you on the Elaine bit; I can still remember (and still feel when replaying) the dissapointment when she is turned into a statue, after spending the entire first part waiting to see how would she save Guybrush from LeChuck's prison...
I would also like to know Ron Gilbert's opinion on this video, because it's a great tribute to his work.
Great video man, cheers!
Oh my god. THe beeps and tweeps soundtrack. I remember playing this on my 286 with CGA display. No adlib sound card.
Then I upgraded, got a sound blaster and enjoyed Monkey Island in vga glory!
Ah, cga was ugly even back then, but it was the only one I had.
Wonderful work, thanks so much for this.
You're not dead! omg yesssss welcome back
"and it could have been so much longer."
Much appreciated! Brevity etc.
This was great, more please!
Wow, thank you for this. This game was a huge part of my childhood, but I never really understood so much of it. I should really play it again.
Now make that longer version of this video you mention, pls.
Very good review!! Congrats!!
See, I knew there was a reason I was subscribed to this channel. Very good!
This is an amazing analisys.
As a guy who appreciates conciseness and also doesn't have much time, thank you for not making it "so much longer".
Amazing, this is the stuff I subbed for.