@@whatno5090 Irrelevant. Their point isn't about what is and isn't alliteration, it's about the fact that the spelling is different. They just used alliteration's definition because it sounded right, they could probably give two shakes of a dick whether alliteration counts if the spelling is different as long as it sounds the same. The center of their comment is that if Phil Fish is spelled differently, even if alliterated, then so should the similar names follow suit. - Captain Buzzkill
This video is so good. In Indie Game the Movie, Phill talks about how he wanted Fez to be this relaxing, pleasant place to be, to get away from it all. That intrigued me as it seems so counter to his projected personality. It sucks that he gets stuck into this character mould that even he is clearly not 100% comfortable with.
It's pretty incredible how relevant this topic still is today almost ten years later. Everything you've said about Phil Fish has happened to so many other internet celebrities I can't even name them all, though the one that comes to mind is Lindsay Ellis. I remember watching this almost ten years ago and being blown away by it and honestly I'm still blown away by it now. Beautiful work.
Woah. I hadn't heard of Phil Fish until this video. Someone had mentioned Fish to me as a cautionary tale. That was a huge stinger at the end of the video and hit me hard. Great job making this. Thank you.
I desperately wish Phil walked away from the public eye and kept making games. He isn’t a racist or misogynist like Notch. He was just a dude who didn’t know how to respond suddenly becoming famous. Fez was brilliant and it’s depressing we never got a sequel
@@benschmitt7035 There seems to be a connection between the ideas that for capitalist supporters think everything wrong with the world is the fault of people occupying the wrong spots in society and this video here for undeserving fame deserves hate.
This video is seriously like a balm to my soul. The vast majority of Internet commentary is devoted to shallow, vitriolic, nasty, whining little arguments and debates that have zero interest in actually understanding something with real nuance and sophistication. It is so, so nice to be reminded that stuff like this, which is the complete opposite of all those things, does actually exist.
This isn't sophistication, this video is sophistry. Phil clearly pretended to be hacked and blamed people for it. He wasn't "Being famous wrong", he was acting dishonestly and never took responsibility for it.
Dunam Okay, you can argue that, and maybe you'd be right, I don't know. So long as you can argue it in a way that involves thought, intelligence and facts and doesn't involve throwing out pointless insults at a guy you've never met and know very little about, that counts as sophisticated in my book.
This is called a case-study. The sort of thing that should be going on often within a college environment. The sort of thing that should get more attention both as a concept and a study. Sadly, the majority of people are too busy with other things. What needs to be studied now in my strongest opinion is probably what's happening in politics, but let's look at it with THIS type of perspective, can we?
Sure, but this video isn't closely giving the facts for reasons why people disliked him. Here are some of the real reasons people don't like phil fish: -Winning 2012 IGF for fez, even though the game was not eligible to enter according to the rules, as well as multiple juror had financially invested in fez and would get richer from it's success in a clear conflict of interest -McGrath and DeGroot both worked on fez, were given shit by fez, and were unable to get any rebuttal published due to phil fish's connection to the game journalist -In a very consumer unfriendly move, he went after people who made let's play's of fez and tried to get them to pay money for it -Phil Fish claimed to have been hacked and blamed a specific group of people for it. When people pointed out some details which made it not look like a hack, all the "hacked pages" were quickly removed from phil fish's website and left twitter. -Indie Game the movie has Phil Fish going on a long tangent why the visual style was key to making it succesful. At the time I thought this was so peculiar, he must be telling me something brilliant that I not quite understood why it was brilliant yet. Looking at it in hindsight and looking at his conflict with the other developers of fez (phil was responsible for the art) makes me think that he was making an argument why he more than the other developers was responsible for its success. -Winning indiecade for fez, even tough there were jurors who had financially invested in fez A little googling and you can easily find the evidence and proof for all these events. Personally I don't have any ill feelings towards phil fish. I just want people to take responsibility for their actions and make amends when they make mistakes. Phil Fish has generally verbally attacked those who try to hold him accountable for some of his mistakes. That's the reason that some people don't like him.
Since it came out, this was the first video I kept in my watch list. Simple production but packed with a bunch of lessons we still don't appreciate today.
I remember the first time I ever got top comment on a youtube video. The creator even mentioned it in the next video. I was on top of the world, and made it a hobby from then on to get noticed on all of the videos I liked. Fame does strange things to people, those receiving it and those observing it, even in small doses. I wonder how this Phil Fish thing relates to people who get mad about their favorite youtubers "abandoning" their channels or the community they came from, like Huskystarcraft or Ster. More opinions on how famous people should act from people who don't have the whole picture and who don't even really know the answer to that themselves.
getting famous is a pretty funny phenomenon to be honest, and people should be more self aware about it. depending on the context, it is undeniably a double edged sword. even from the audience end, I always try to ensure that: "this person with an opinion has their own life, so one cannot judge them based on one point in life alone, it must be a product of other points in their life that resulted in this moment," but sometimes I even fail to do so. weird,
I was thinking about this video more after watching and thought of something interesting you didn't mention. Phil was on Giant Bomb's GDC liveshow and discussed his being a DJ. He explained that the best part of DJing was the instant feedback from the crowd at a party and how easy it was to read them. Interesting that he leaves a career that required so much of his time to create one thing that he got a lot of negativity for, and is now doing something where he can change people's moods and attitudes by simply playing a new song. Just a different form of expression with almost instant gratification.
I certainly don't believe he's incapable of growing and maybe he'll get a second chance to take on "fame" again sometime down the line with a thicker skin and a humbler approach.
90% of the comments on this video are missing the point. Despite the focus on Phil Fish, this video isn't actually ABOUT him. It's using him as an example. The description even says "a case study in internet celebrity." It certainly isn't a defense of him, except to the extent that it's a defense of everyone who's ever gotten famous on the Internet.
That exact mentality is even called out in the video. "It would've been entirely justified to use Phil Fish to have a conversation about tokenism and cultural insensitivity...but instead, people used tokenism and cultural insensitivity to talk about Phil Fish. [...] People cared about racism only in as much as it let them hate Phil Fish."
From the future, I just want to say that I don't think that is as universalizable a point as is being presented. Fame on the internet isn't JUST something that happens. Many people actively try to make it happen. Can Innuendo remake this video about, say, pewdiepie? For all that we talk about how the public can simultaneously label someone famous and then attack them for not doing it right, is it still something tragic when we talk about someone like Markplier, someone who has sought popularity on the back of being an asshole? Is it wrong to criticize people like THAT for "being famous wrong"?
The idea of the video wasn't that it's wrong to criticize internet celebrities for "being famous wrong". It's a case study, an analysis on how internet subcultures and peoples behave towards internet celebrities like Phil Fish.
Literally not a single comment along the lines of what you said. When you are so desperate for a pat on the back that you’ll literally virtue signal a scenario FROM YOUR OWN IMAGINATION. You had to LIE to feel like a good person
@@lyleinnoe2210 I made this comment 6 years ago, so A, what is the fucking point of this reply, and B, why are you acting like it's impossible that the comments from 6 years ago and the comments from today would be different?
Only going to comment because of the final line in the video. That was an excellent mic drop. As someone who really doesn't care about any of this and just found this discussion of it interesting, that was an excellent moment.
Isn't that the point? To skirt the emotional investment and instead have the "useful" talk about how insular and unproductive the hatred itself is? How it doesn't qualify as news-worthy?
@@Dunam I believe Japanese games sucked (at least Jrpgs during the six generation), I commented that online and never ever I got the response to that comment like Phil Fish did. And there was no real controversy (at least that time), Phil even apologized to the Japenese guy but people don't care about that shit.
@@tomstonemale It was too fucking late for the tard too. Phillipe never apologised to the PC consumer base after describing the platform as "only good for spreadsheets". He can't be forgiven because he made no effort to be a professional for once in his god damn life. And now he's living in the middle of a desert like Noah Antwiler(another failure), going nowhere and isn't really doing anything of worth.
@@DR3ADER1 What an aggressive takeaway. It's almost as if you're determined to dodge every point made in the video. Saying "he made no effort to be professional" after watching the video (assuming you actually watched the whole thing) misses the point so horrendously that you should seriously consider retaking high school English to work on your comprehension.
All the other youtubers are posting here and so I feel that I should at least make a pointless post. Mission accomplished. That being said, I'm envious of Phil's ability to make people angry. Trolls practice for years to hit the level that he sits at naturally.
Really, the only thing you need to make people angry is any sort of critical, contrary opinion that isn't popularly agreed on. Especially if it's in regard to any social issue, ever. It doesn't matter if it's a caustic opinion or not either. Simply having it will make them angry.
You lost me on Nicekleback Hannah. Their "Im Mad At My Daddy" nerf metal growly stuff never moved me other than to swtich them off and turn on some Wagner...Now there is a guy who knew how to channel his pissed offness. Loving the Watchdogs series almost as much as i loved the Delsin saga. You really give the play throughs some soul and depth.
I'm not too big on the indie game scene so this is the first I've heard of Phil Fish, but that aside, your analysis on internet media and fame was phenomenal, both highly informative and well explained. Mad props.
Probably the same reason the N-word gets thrown around by 12-year olds on Xbox Live: A guttural impulse to say something that, not mattering if it applies at all, but is edgy and said in a way to be insulting and extreme. To get a reaction out of someone. Depending on the context, I've seen people throw out hate speech to purposely act like a belligerent child and flame people on the internet and in real life. They could also be using the racial insults because there's some underlying or overt racism from the user as well. There is still plenty of that in the world and the internet gives them a place to anonymously spread that hate in a place where they won't be immediately punched in the face. But what it comes down to again seems to be, just being edgy and controversial. Most people understand the concept of racism, understand that racism is controversial at best in any more "normal" social circles. They know that when they bring out those terms, they will get some kind of reaction from someone.
or they didn't even watch the whole video. These days if it ain't something weird, a trend, a fight or less than 3 mins long, its not worthwhile to even give a glance.
ivanramos13 This video is no more the ultimate truth than a Kotaku editorial. It's one guy's view on the whole thing. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with it either. All I know is that Phil is just some guy who made video games and makes harsh comments, never paid any attention to him (or any games "journalism" in fact) since I knew I wouldn't get anything out of it. We're here on the internet where you will _always_ get someone with a differing opinion cause that's just how it works. It's only ignorance if they don't bother to learn all the facts prior to making their decision. What they do do (heh) with the facts is completely unique to them and shouldn't be labelled as any form of ignorance.
***** Of course, I completely agree. I was being sarcastic in my previous comment. There is no such thing as the ultimate truth, and disagreement never implies ignorance. It can be explained by it in some cases, but there's no direct causal relation. In any case, this debate will most probably die down sooner than later, taking Fish's career along with it, unless he mans up, ignores the haters, stops being an ass and makes another game.
This is and likely always will be my favorite youtube video about gaming culture. I come back to it often and am always surprised by how thorough and insightful it is.
I like Phil Fish. I love that he gives the internet back what it hates, which is its own criticism. And the internet cannot handle it. It is pathetic really. It is easy to be a critic. It requires no thinking. It is much harder to actually understand someone. Here's a wonderful thought on critics, from Roosevelt's "Citizenship In A Republic" speech: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." Don't be a critic. Be a doer. Be a thinker. Understand people.
MrAlterior Well... depends on the definition. The one we were running with was: "crit·ic ˈkridik/ noun 1. a person who expresses an unfavorable opinion of something." (P.S. I get it's a joke!)
Zack The Great Indeed, too many people just do pointless rants which say nothing except that the ranter has a temper. I'm currently learning how to code html css and javascript. In about three years I will have enough qualifications to potentially become a professional programmer. Remind me never to say anything negative online o.O
A few years ago I was trying to develop an iso engine. I had never heard of Anita Sarkeesian. I naively tried to discuss my work on stack exchange. I was eviscerated. I quit my project. It broke my heart. This year I went broke. Since I couldn't afford cable anymore I took up watching UA-cam. I finally found out about gamergate. I had no clue when I was too busy working slavishly in obscurity on my game to worry about anything else. Did I mention the rejection of those whom I thought of as my peers broke my heart? I'm still not really over it. Maybe now that I know why... Maybe...
I’m not gonna lie to you fam, even after reading this 4 times I still don’t entirely get what you said but assuming that you valued those peers and wish to reconnect with them I hope you find a way to make that a reality.
+Toshinou Kyoko A lot of quotes from the video are generalizations of an audience. The way he describes Phil Fish's hate fits the way he wants to display his points. Its not even malicious actually, part of it is mostly due to editing convenience and you are supposed to make some nuance, there's no such thing as pure objectivity. This however, didn't go so well with people here. The very last thing the video shows, and I admit I'm cherrypicking this one because it's the easiest of all examples to demonstrate. I can name a few more instances. Things the video would be better without. The very last thing in the video was a strawman attack. He made a generalization of what Phil's haters were like early on: "Phil Fish hasn't made a single game!", only to have a closure at the end of the video telling them off. Who actually said that though? Now think for a moment: - Was this even that much of a notable thing that Phil Fish haters spread? - Why does it get special treatment as the very last thing you're left with at the end of the video? Ultimately, why did stating that matter all? Why give it importance? What did he author want us to think of that? You know the answer to that. You know exactly that it was a shoddy defense attempt. And see what I'm getting at? People doing these nitpicks are defending themselves. And in fact Innuendo Studios probably is aware it'd happen. I mean, he did, despite telling us otherwise, defend Phil Fish, beyond the necessity of what points he had to make in the video. That's why it was important to them to end the video on that note. Now don't be fooled just because I'm accusing the author. He's still absolutely correct about his points though. On many things. This video is the best, most intelligent thing to take out from Phil's fame. There's just so much to go on from this. So many parallels to make. But let's tread back for a moment, notice how I've described the action you pointed out? I said "Defending themselves". Aren't they? Isn't that what you were implying as well? Let's say it out loud for the children, the nitpickers you were laughing about were Phil Fish haters trying to make a point against the video. Hell, I guess I'm on that boat now, I ended up doing the same, look at me, defending the haters, lol. Cat's out of the bag. But what does that change? Were these nitpicks a bad thing? *WHY?* Which is why I'll make this the final point of my reply: Phil's most famous and almost ubiquitous reason of fame was his Choke on Dick line. This is for many, entirely the reason why anyone began to care. And would be the end of it easily even with a lot of asshole celebrities. No one could defend that. Ever. Not even the author, that's why there's no point 3. That's why this line is paired with something else and then forgotten about.
DiEx80 yeah that's pretty much how I felt about it too. the only thing from the video I didn't really agree with was the whole "image vs person", especially when the person in question isn't a clear representation of something you hate (other than a douchebag ofc)
Well said, you probably could have taken "dubstep" instead of nickelback too. You don't like music, because of the sound; You like / dislike it because of the people playing it and the values they represent for you.
Wrong. I'll point to myself as an example - when I first heard dubstep nothing existed (no names no people) in the music except for the exceptional thrumming in my body and I had no idea who or where it came from. The first song I listened to had been filtered through the public before it got to me (it was an example of the 'new' dubstep) and I enjoyed it enough that I stopped what I was doing and immediately set out to find who made it and what more I could find like it. I know there is a large amount of people who dislike and even hate dubstep but I still go back to it and enjoy the well-mixed tracks regardless. Either way if dubstep was that unacceptable it would have never have taken off as the cost of production would have outpaced the profits and money is king.
Alexander Juring Yeah, that's true. But than your relation to the dubstep "communety" can't be too bad. Because the video was more about disliking something, i focused on that point; Every music is hearable - otherwise there wouldn't be people hearing it. But why so many people hate country, dubstep, rap, folk, ... ? Remeber: They all have a passionated audience. - Because they don't like the lifestyle the audience represents. Let's take me as an example this time: I hate everything related to rap. All the stuff about "i'm the cooles and fuck your bitch" etc., i can't stand this. And that's why i hate rap. It's not the actual rap music, i can feel the beat and hear the powerful rimes too, can move the head and go with the music, but there would be no way i would search for some rap music on youtube or stuff like that. In contrary! Because i hate the scene, i claim to hate the music too, even if in fact, it sounds good too. In oposition i love the reggae riddems, the bassline, the vibes, no matter if they are happy or sad. And that's because i love the people associated with that kind of music, the ideas. So i listen to it a lot and don't have a problem with all the very religious texts, even when i'm normally zero religious. That's normal. We are humans, and we need other humans. You see? So, what i actually wanted to say: Don't blame the music if you don't like a genre ;) Sometimes it's just better to relax and forget the people. Also: All music genres sound so different and each have unique specials. Try it; Take a look out of your windows on a sunny day and listen to songs from completely different genres. You will recognize how different the world outside feels, this all the different kinds of sound. And you recognize that you can't really say, that one is better than an other (; - i wrote parts of this under a video with people discussing about brostep vs "real dubstep", but it fits here too.
HimGames Ah, my bad I misunderstood. I immediately saw you compare dubstep to phil fish and was like "no way!" haha. You're right, like in the very well thought out video the reactions are based on how we feel about the related subject matter. Within the past hour I just proved once again turning on a pop song in the background has woken me up when a 20FLoz Red Bull and two Starbucks doubleshot expressos still had me closing my eyes, so I won't debate music's effect on the brain. But as for your blanket feelings for entire genres of music? I think that's dangerous thinking man. You have to keep an open mind - same type of thinking can shut out a lot of things, you don't want to make it a habit. You might like Coolio's Gangsta's Paradise or Will Smith's Fresh Prince rap, you never know. (hatebush1234 Or Kanye's Stronger collab with Daft Punk, even though I'm not a fan of him in particular)
Alexander Juring Haha, yeah, that's why there are clock radios, right? True, it's dangerous and i though can bump my head too most of that beats, just like to every other music. But it's just that i would never hear it loudly or go on a concert, just because i don't like & won't like to be associated with the lifestyle the fans of this kind of music represent. It's a bit like not eating meat, because you don't like fattening farms, even though it tastes good.
Just Phil Aren't you late for your roasting, oh sorry, your a smelly fish, you need boiled. Too late, the internet already cooked you good man, lol. Deep Fried Fish. But hey if you can't stand the kitchen don't be a fish!
@@russelljackson2818 I wonder how big "comment sections" are in terms of the problem compared to, say, social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter.
This is one of my favorite videos and I keep coming back to it because of your superb ability to express these overarching concepts that sometimes are overlooked. Keep up the good work!
I will say this, i'm a fan of Phil, he says alot of stuff that people who pay attention to games will often say, if you own the Spacial Edition of Indie Game The Movie you can clearly see that Phil knows his stuff when talking about Video Game design. I study video games design at university and will more than likely soon go into the industry, its clear from a mile out that he knows what he's talking, and to the people who say Phil isn't talented and mock him for spending 4 years on a game, what have you spent 4 years doing? Have you been in education, or in a job? How have you done in those years because Phil, in comparison, got an A* for FEZ, he got the best promotion the company has ever given out, it sold amazing and critics loved it, hating Phil for something many consider the best example of an Indie Game is simply pointless. When I said Phil says alot of what we will say is true, When he said that Japanese games suck he said exactly what Jon Blow said but with fewer and more insulting words, Jon Blow agreed with Phil and anybody who follows Japanese games (I'm not one of them) knows that they have taken a noise dive in the last 5-8 years, I know this because I follow games, I follow this industry and like Phil Fish I love what I do. He, unlike me, just has a really shitty way of doing it but Phil is famous because he has achieved what so many of us can't. Success while being ourself's.
Vidya General The difference between those is that terrorism and cancer hurt people. This is a guy spreading questionable opinions on the internet. But like I said, your business. I don't justify his actions, I just don't care anymore since he's old news, and as far as I know, he hasn't said anything since, so I'm not going to hold a grudge over him anymore. And I Really don't want to get into an argument.
I don't think it's quite the same thing with Anita Sarkeesian. What she's doing is a positive, necessary thing (working toward gender equality in games) but she's doing it in a toxic, hostile way (explicit misandry - not all the time, but often enough to be statistically relevant). Misogynists hate her because she opposes them. SJWs love her because they feel psychologically obliged to support any feminist movement. But it's possible to dislike her for reasons that have nothing to do with her popularity or influence.
"SJWs love her because they feel psychologically obliged to support any feminist movement." Yeah, not even close. Everyone has their own reasons for who they like and what they support. You don't get to mindread everyone who disagrees with you.
Michael 마익흘 Aronson I'm referring to SJW in its original, derogatory term - "social justice warrior" meaning someone who either supports social justice because of what it will earn them (rather than for the moral reasons), or someone who uses the moral reasons as a bludgeon to win them fights in the grey-area and/or shut down the opposition. THOSE people do, in fact, need to support Anita Sarkeesian because not doing so would run against the game plan and harm their interests. But as someone who supports social justice on its own merits, I think that people who go after the wrong targets and support the wrong figures could actively harm the good fight we're fighting.
"THOSE people do, in fact, need to support Anita Sarkeesian because not doing so would run against the game plan and harm their interests." Except that nobody identifies as a social justice warrior, until threatened little men start throwing around the label.
The only thing that baffled me were the attacks on FEZ itself. I could accept that Phil Fish might be an asshole, but FEZ was a fantastic game. And whether or not you enjoyed it, $10 was more than fair for the price of the game. Yet, every time I found Phil Fish comments, it was always, "FEZ sucked balls. I would never pay $10 for that shit-fest." I found FEZ to be an interesting new perspective on a genre of game that had long fallen out of popularity and I found some of the puzzles extremely engaging. I enjoyed the artstyle, though I can understand people who don't enjoy Pixel Art. From an art standpoint, the pixel art was an important part of the overarching themes of the game, with blocks, squares, and the most basic shape to render in 3D. I don't think I've ever met anyone one who doesn't know who Phil Fish is, has played FEZ, and hates the game.
This is one of the best videos on UA-cam ever, period. I saw this when it first came out and I still watch from time to time because of how great it is. By far the most level headed evaluation of Phil Fish, a man turned overnight internet villain. Published at a time when it could have been easier to just blindly shit on him and rake in more views. Yet you provided the most in-depth and unbiased view of this whole situation. Hats off to you, man.
Imperial Game Reviewer the fault on the EULA lies at the angry/stupid parents who blamed mojang for the admins of some servers trying to make money of their servers
WTH, the EULA wasn't even changed much! The Pay2Win things were always forbidden and with this step they got the Server owners to look at it. The guys that made him sell Mojang also weren't only the (stupid) guys crying about the EULA. Like he said the game got too big and he got mails about everything! (Herobrine, Eula, Suggestions, Bugs, etc)
Imperial Game Reviewer It was actually this video _in combination_ of the EULA that made him realise that he doesn't want to be famous in the first place.
I don't really have an opinion on Phil Fish, and if I did, I certainly wouldn't want to voice it because that would attract flamer faster than a cow turd attracts flies. All I want to say is that if I got as much hatred as he did on a daily basis, I would probably do the same thing and quit. Doing what you love isn't worth putting up with the whole world slinging mud at you constantly.
@@TheSoulHarvester are you fucking stupid? I really dont understand how people manage to be watching a video that proves exactly the fucking opposite of what they're about to comment but they will comment it anyways
I didn't really follow this story when it was blowing up ; though I do recall several of his tweets being tacky and immature. I don't get how people are picking apart his IGF acceptance speech though -- no trace of humility or "surprise" ? So everyone who wins an award is supposed to act completely shocked and bewildered? His speech wasn't even tacky or self-aggrandizing -- He thanked all the people who contributed to his game and even threw in a shout out to his mom and dad... Pretty much a spot on imitation to 90% of awards speeches in every genre of popular entertainment. I think people are making a mountain out of a mole hill. He might be an ass but he's very young and like most people in life, has a lot of growing ahead of him. People are sounding nearly as tacky as he did just piling on him as they have been for years.
I honestly think it's really frightening to be Internet famous. When they love you, it's all fantastic. But the moment the mob turns on you, it gets so frightening.
I'm leaving Mojang September 15th, 2014 I don't see myself as a real game developer. I make games because it's fun, and because I love games and I love to program, but I don't make games with the intention of them becoming huge hits, and I don't try to change the world. Minecraft certainly became a huge hit, and people are telling me it's changed games. I never meant for it to do either. It's certainly flattering, and to gradually get thrust into some kind of public spotlight is interesting. A relatively long time ago, I decided to step down from Minecraft development. Jens was the perfect person to take over leading it, and I wanted to try to do new things. At first, I failed by trying to make something big again, but since I decided to just stick to small prototypes and interesting challenges, I've had so much fun with work. I wasn't exactly sure how I fit into Mojang where people did actual work, but since people said I was important for the culture, I stayed. I was at home with a bad cold a couple of weeks ago when the internet exploded with hate against me over some kind of EULA situation that I had nothing to do with. I was confused. I didn't understand. I tweeted this in frustration. Later on, I watched the This is Phil Fish video on UA-cam and started to realize I didn't have the connection to my fans I thought I had. I've become a symbol. I don't want to be a symbol, responsible for something huge that I don't understand, that I don't want to work on, that keeps coming back to me. I'm not an entrepreneur. I'm not a CEO. I'm a nerdy computer programmer who likes to have opinions on Twitter. As soon as this deal is finalized, I will leave Mojang and go back to doing Ludum Dares and small web experiments. If I ever accidentally make something that seems to gain traction, I'll probably abandon it immediately. Considering the public image of me already is a bit skewed, I don't expect to get away from negative comments by doing this, but at least now I won't feel a responsibility to read them. I'm aware this goes against a lot of what I've said in public. I have no good response to that. I'm also aware a lot of you were using me as a symbol of some perceived struggle. I'm not. I'm a person, and I'm right there struggling with you. I love you. All of you. Thank you for turning Minecraft into what it has become, but there are too many of you, and I can't be responsible for something this big. In one sense, it belongs to Microsoft now. In a much bigger sense, it's belonged to all of you for a long time, and that will never change. It's not about the money. It's about my sanity.
The effects of fame is why I always try to act on the internet the way I would in real life. The people are real so why should I act differently. People feel like there's no consequences on the internet but it's totally opposite. If you really do something bad worthy of persecution the internet will come down on you like hell. In real life there is more immediate social consequences yes, but at least for the most part you're protected by laws and there's no law on the internet.
Can't believe I've not seen this before. It's so well made. I've actually met Phil Fish and he's a pretty normal, decent guy. This could happen to anyone.
People have been telling me I need to watch this and I'm so glad that I finally did. Phil is just the example in this vid... but I have seen it applied to so many other people online that it all goes in a pattern. This video nails that pattern. Well done.
this is just the best video. i come back to this over the years and this is, unquestionably, the best video. to light a fire that would basically massively increase the production of video essays over the next decade and still end up being the best one is quite a ridiculous accomplishment, but this does everything as perfect as it could. all while becoming more and more relevant every. single. year.
Really easy to apply a lot of this to recent contra backlash. She started by making videos trying to talk about alt right ideology and deconstructing their tricks, and ended up with an audience. And audience with wildly varied opinions about what she should and should not be doing with her channel. Shes also said some shady stuff in the past, and that created the concept around her that many disliked about her (and larger habits of breadtube as a whole). Claims of her being intolerant towards non binary people could -kinda- be backed up by certain tweets. And there is a lack of diversity among who is considered "real breadtube", which is mostly well off white people. When contra makes a 40 minute video defending different gender identities, it's ignored, while a handful of poorly worded tweets get blasted across the internet bc "contra was enbyphobic. You were right" gets more news. Which isn't to say contra is some innocent victim. I found her stance of buck angel in her cancelled video lacking, and I ultimately don't much care for the man, even if I do give him credit for leading the way forward for trans people. But I also think there is more to the hate since all it took was 12 seconds on a 40 minute video to completely upend her life and the life of her friends. It's bigger than buck. And here, it seems best explained. She "isn't being famous right". Shes a model for a community. Things placed upon her, not things she asked for, and she "should've known better" which is easy to say when it isn't you. I don know. It's very interesting that such an old video still so easily explains and predicts how the internet reacts to celebrity. It's a compliment to the making of the video while also being a condemnation of how little we've changed.
Laura Bailey and her son got death threats because people didn't like a game she was in. Contra stanning Buck hurts, but celebrities so obviously don't deserve this treatment.
I was thinking of Contra, too - I'm *not* a fan of her stuff and still pretty unhappy about her singular-they-related Twitter thread, but I definitely caught glimpses of a really creepy pattern of quotemining and hyperbolizing and reiterating points and interpreting remarks uncharitably which ... yeah, I'm pretty sure was a population of haters making themselves feel justified in slinging abuse her direction.
@@porksauce3465 Only to idiots and Nazis. Nazis and far-righters have begun to use "jew" as a synonym for "person I don't like," From anyone who uses "jew" in that way, it's meant as a direct threat against the target's life.
As a latino, the fact that you pointed out that for POC this would be different is incredibly aware. Thank you. Because this whole thing was good (right or wrong), but you're very much right in that it would be different for any POC.
"He is white, male, middle class and is presumed to be both straight and cis gender. If you lack one or more of these traits, expect this backlash sooner." Without being too wordy, I think a good way to frame this is to think about how this may have been different were Phil Fish "Phanny Fish" and a woman. He's the exception because he's rolled the dice perfectly here. There isn't much of a social stigma attached to Phil Fish outside of his own actions and what he says or does because that's all people hate him for: his actions. However, if he were say, a chick, or gay, (s)he would be subject to a completely different kind of scrutiny socially.
Yeah, this needs to be highlighted a lot more in the gaming community. Unfortunately that means confronting a largely young and abrasive audience who like the perception of 'we don't give a fuck' to be cast on them, despite the clear lack of diversity. Its gonna be a while before any headway is made.
Slimebeast Pug Well, can we also remove monsters, magic, wizards, anything clean, like anything, everything should be dirty. Because that shit is also unrealistic.
I always thought that people overreacted with Phil. He was having a bad time, and if you've seen Indie Movie you know he's not exactly confident. He even said he would kill himself if he wouldn't fisnish Fez. When you screw up and say something you didn't think about, and you're Phil Fish, you don't take haters really well. So he got famous of not taking haters very well. And that's the idea that internet created of Phil Fish. He's personality is destorted by the media, which only shows the pissed off Phil. He's not an asshole, he wasn't able to not care.
After watching the Internet landscape evolve in the years since this video, I've come to the conclusion that "cancel culture" is a concept that is real, but only affects those who were already disenfranchised. Many "cancelled" celebrities have weaponised their wrongdoings to grift their hardcore stan's and anti-SJW chuds out of their money. Many artists have committed horrible crimes and were left unpunished RIGHT UNTIL their work stopped being profitable in the eyes of their higher-ups. Meanwhile, microcelebrities (such as Phil Fish) and just regular people, who do not have PR or Marketing teams on their side and are ultimately small in the grand scheme of things, do not have the emotional strength to handle a massive barrage of harassment, and for people in minority groups, that ill-intentioned harassment comes on top of the usual hate speech that they recieve. In short, the celebrities crying foul over "cancel culture" will never actually suffer the real consequences of it as long as they keep the money flowing. It's them trying to relate to those without their privilege in order to maintain it.
I mean, actors do lose jobs over being cancelled, like that woman from The Mandalorian who expressed the wrong opinion on whatever hot button issue. Usually though they get new jobs pretty quickly. But unless your definition of "disenfranchised" is "people who aren't major celebrities", you're wrong, it happens to all sorts of people and internet personalities. Problem is that attempts to cancel are nowadays mostly based on a moral police telling you what you can and can't say and what opinions are acceptable and which aren't. In other words, SJW nonsense. The reason they keep failing to cancel conservatives, edgelords, and even liberals (as in people who actually like liberalism) is that those people don't care because they agree with the fundamental mentality of "I get to decide what you say", whereas they keep succeeding in cancelling each other, because the goal posts keep shifting for what is appropriate to say once you've accepted that moral policing of public expression as something good and necessary. People who do that moral policing and join in the hunt for cancel culture (often those whom you term "disenfranchised") will soon be eaten by that same movement because it moved the goal posts and what was once the right opinion has now turned into the wrong one, or is not progressive enough. The right doesn't act that way, which is why it's harder to cancel people on the right. It's that simple.
Love how you threw in "chud". Please, dude, get off breadtube. What's deemed a minority group changes every year and that's why ya'll keep canceling each other. You eat your own constantly.
You are an amazing concept, we need more concepts like you on the internet. Looking at both sides, presenting that information, and letting the veiwer decide what to do with it. Genius. Too many people just look for information that agrees with their opinion and ignore everything else. Thank you for attempting to make people open their minds. Though I consider myself fairly open minded, this helps me think of even more to consider and apply to other things, and I hope it inspires others to consider the information that is not given directly too them and try to see the other side from a new perspective. Thank you again, you bring hope to the internet.
I don't think this video represents a good objective view of Phil Fish or the attention he's gotten on the internet. It represents his opinion which he's derived from the information which he has gather regarding Phil Fish. I'm not saying that his opinion isn't good or valid, just that it starts objective but soon ventures into the depths of theories and personal opinion.
The video is not just about Phil, it's about the concept of people like Phil. I think it's sorta like a, "Hey, before you call this guy an asshole, maybe consider why? And why you even care? Then, feel free to call him an asshole." Also pretty sure this video is supposed to be his opinion on these matters, not every last detail about the success and failures of Phil Fish and his personal character.
Yeah I didn't know anything about him and he seemed ok but then after seeing his attitude and comments that he made it really turned me off there's no excuse for it but I wish he just gave an explanation instead of saying fuck you to all his fans.Then he got even more full of himself, check his twitter.I saw him call his game a masterpiece and insult other indie devs unjustly, call Anita Sarkeesian a hero, tell his fans that supported him and got him to success that they can go fuck themselves they don't DESERVE a Fez 2.I keep an open mind, it's just guarded against bullshit.But hey I'll try to look at from other views since I know what it's like to not be understood and to be unjustly discriminated against but NOTHING can change how terrible a person he is.
Nick Callahan Yeah, it just baffles me how he can act like this and so many people support him even when he directly saying fuck you to them. I just don't know man XD
I've been saying this to anyone that was hating on Phil Fish for years. "The hate is just because has a massive magnifyer on him. If anyone else said the same things, nobody would've batted an eye." And I'm in on the Nickelback joke, but I know it's a joke. I know it's the concept. And people who jump on these bandwagons have a hard time distincting it and just repeat the quotes from others like HE is the one who deserves the hate.
No, the "hate" stemmed from his inability to handle being challenged, criticised, mocked, and sent dissent from people who saw through his bullshit facade. That happens when you treat your potential consumer base like shit and then, expect them to pay up for your shitty game.
I don't think he ever said the hate was deserved or undeserved, he just explained how and why it happens I think his hate isn't undeserved, being blunt and brash gets you blunt and brash back, it's the science behind the attention and the heart of the why
Honestly if he's reading this right now I want to say "thank you Phil Fish for making Fez. It's one of very few games that have touched me over the years and I still think about it all the time. I genuinely hope you are well and I'm sorry for all the hate you got over the years."
@@Haddonfield.31 Regardless of what anyone does, no one deserves what I've seen Phil Fish get. And differing opinions, I suppose because to me he's created one of the best games ever made in the history of the industry and it's incredibly sad we may never see another like it.
@@Joshua_Tymchyn Im sorry, but if you consider Fez one of the greatest games ever made in the industry then you haven't played much, especially since Fez adopted alot of concepts from games that came before it.
Damn. So incredibly well done. That's all I've got. Logical and respectful. I went into that video expecting one thing and left it feeling a complete other. Nicely done!
Just finished FEZ and loved it. Really really loved it. Also, this video is very insightful. Glad you made it and I hope this kind of fair analysis catches on.
This makes Chappell Roan’s recent comments on fame feel all the more relevant-that people expect her to give up her time and energy to interact with total strangers and frown upon her (or worse) if she doesn’t
+LetoZeth I've been playing video games for 25+ years now, and I know what a fez is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Also: Whoa dude, easy. Don't talk like that to people you don't know only because they have, at worst, told a lame joke. That is not a good way to go through life, mate.
I have been playing video games for 29 years.. Whatever THAT has to do with ANYTHING?... ¯\(ツ)/¯ Also: Easy on what? Saying that someone lacks education and life experience? Gez.. Grow up mate.
This is a great video. I remember watching Phil Fish in the documentary and never knew about this incredible hatred that followed. If you become famous or even micro-famous the best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them. But, at the same time, responding to trolls is what makes the news, which will expand your audience. I can't wait until my fire-breathing turtle circus takes off so I get the opportunity to choose which path I take.
I hope Phil releases his next game under the name "Colin Cod" or "Sam Salmon"
Why not Kolin Cod or Zam Salmon? You know because Phil Fish is strictly speaking not an alliteration. :)
@@UserJWR Even strictly speaking alliterations can be phonetic
JahsiJahsi MahiMahi
how about Tim Guppy???
@@whatno5090 Irrelevant. Their point isn't about what is and isn't alliteration, it's about the fact that the spelling is different. They just used alliteration's definition because it sounded right, they could probably give two shakes of a dick whether alliteration counts if the spelling is different as long as it sounds the same. The center of their comment is that if Phil Fish is spelled differently, even if alliterated, then so should the similar names follow suit.
- Captain Buzzkill
Alright, algorithm, I watched the damn video. I didn't even know who Phil Fish was, but this certainly was an educational video.
huh, I follow you on twitter and now der algorithmus has decided to show me the video too. eerie
@@summerdeaf oh hi! I remember you
@tackbackward thanks, I drew it myself.
"People hate Phil Fish for not letting the fame change him" is a weirdly potent point. He never changed, the things around him did.
This video is so good. In Indie Game the Movie, Phill talks about how he wanted Fez to be this relaxing, pleasant place to be, to get away from it all. That intrigued me as it seems so counter to his projected personality. It sucks that he gets stuck into this character mould that even he is clearly not 100% comfortable with.
Yeah, he never wanted fame and couldn’t handle it. He’s human.
@@nottucks Well said!!!!!!!
by relaxing and pleasent he probably meant the passive income which is why hes not hungry for more
It's pretty incredible how relevant this topic still is today almost ten years later. Everything you've said about Phil Fish has happened to so many other internet celebrities I can't even name them all, though the one that comes to mind is Lindsay Ellis. I remember watching this almost ten years ago and being blown away by it and honestly I'm still blown away by it now. Beautiful work.
And now it's even more relevant with Chappel Roan
This is entirely fascinating.
Indeed. Well worth the watch for anyone that has a curiosity about or desire to be "micro" celebrity.
Thank you for linking this, I found it pretty fascinating.
Justin iZ Here i find your icon fascinating ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
***** I find it arousing, but that also works.
Justin iZ Here Justin senpai pls
Woah. I hadn't heard of Phil Fish until this video. Someone had mentioned Fish to me as a cautionary tale. That was a huge stinger at the end of the video and hit me hard. Great job making this. Thank you.
@T teg Egg PewDiePie sucks
I return to this video every time there's new drama on the internet, and it's relevant 99% of the time.
I desperately wish Phil walked away from the public eye and kept making games. He isn’t a racist or misogynist like Notch. He was just a dude who didn’t know how to respond suddenly becoming famous. Fez was brilliant and it’s depressing we never got a sequel
@@Daftanemone he did walk away, i never heard of him, it's a very specific community online that keeps walking towards him
You really hit the nail on the fish.
Haha what are u doing here cry? XD
yay hi cry ! tell me a joke !
This is Cry Go to Is Channel AND SUBSCRIBE, hes awsome !!!!!
He really did actually. People become very scary on the Internet sometimes in situations like this. >.
I see what you did there.
Wow, there is a lot of Famous UA-camr's here...
Who is going to be here next, PewDiePie?
This video makes way more sense now with the "Always a Bigger Fish" video.
Could you clarify? I've seen the video, multiple times actually, but I'm not sure what you mean
@@benschmitt7035 There seems to be a connection between the ideas that for capitalist supporters think everything wrong with the world is the fault of people occupying the wrong spots in society and this video here for undeserving fame deserves hate.
@@AbMaSync oohhh i see. just because he is on the "wrong" spot of the social hierarchy, so they hate him. thank you !!
Haha i get it.
@@AbMaSync I thought the original comment was a pun about his last name
This is excellent. I would have watched this years ago if I’d have known what it was about.
Yea! good video, bad title :/
@@Valotore Well, maybe. But given that this video has over 1.2 million views, the title is probably a good one for UA-cam.
@@Valotore It was made in the time before clickbait
This video is seriously like a balm to my soul. The vast majority of Internet commentary is devoted to shallow, vitriolic, nasty, whining little arguments and debates that have zero interest in actually understanding something with real nuance and sophistication. It is so, so nice to be reminded that stuff like this, which is the complete opposite of all those things, does actually exist.
More like, Super Meat? _(boy)_
This isn't sophistication, this video is sophistry. Phil clearly pretended to be hacked and blamed people for it. He wasn't "Being famous wrong", he was acting dishonestly and never took responsibility for it.
Dunam Okay, you can argue that, and maybe you'd be right, I don't know. So long as you can argue it in a way that involves thought, intelligence and facts and doesn't involve throwing out pointless insults at a guy you've never met and know very little about, that counts as sophisticated in my book.
This is called a case-study. The sort of thing that should be going on often within a college environment. The sort of thing that should get more attention both as a concept and a study. Sadly, the majority of people are too busy with other things. What needs to be studied now in my strongest opinion is probably what's happening in politics, but let's look at it with THIS type of perspective, can we?
Sure, but this video isn't closely giving the facts for reasons why people disliked him. Here are some of the real reasons people don't like phil fish:
-Winning 2012 IGF for fez, even though the game was not eligible to enter according to the rules, as well as multiple juror had financially invested in fez and would get richer from it's success in a clear conflict of interest
-McGrath and DeGroot both worked on fez, were given shit by fez, and were unable to get any rebuttal published due to phil fish's connection to the game journalist
-In a very consumer unfriendly move, he went after people who made let's play's of fez and tried to get them to pay money for it
-Phil Fish claimed to have been hacked and blamed a specific group of people for it. When people pointed out some details which made it not look like a hack, all the "hacked pages" were quickly removed from phil fish's website and left twitter.
-Indie Game the movie has Phil Fish going on a long tangent why the visual style was key to making it succesful. At the time I thought this was so peculiar, he must be telling me something brilliant that I not quite understood why it was brilliant yet. Looking at it in hindsight and looking at his conflict with the other developers of fez (phil was responsible for the art) makes me think that he was making an argument why he more than the other developers was responsible for its success.
-Winning indiecade for fez, even tough there were jurors who had financially invested in fez
A little googling and you can easily find the evidence and proof for all these events. Personally I don't have any ill feelings towards phil fish. I just want people to take responsibility for their actions and make amends when they make mistakes. Phil Fish has generally verbally attacked those who try to hold him accountable for some of his mistakes. That's the reason that some people don't like him.
How have I only JUST noticed this? Christ, nicely done. This is fucking ace.
Well apparently We all hate human.
I sence a video about this going onto your second channel Caddy :D
***** hello 5 year old, ever heard of a actually FUN game
Caddy, are you everywhere?
Hi Caddy, love your videos :D
"Nobody cares who makes games." I beg to differ. Praise Gaben
***** As said in the video, those who care about such things are the vast minority.
Xendrus Idziak We all praise Gaben as one.
***** I do...
TechnAmateur We all praise Gabe.
***** Well, I meant game producers in general, but yeah, I praise Gabe too.
Wow, I never really understood that my disdain for Nickleback was so involved- But everything you said about it was completely true.
Since it came out, this was the first video I kept in my watch list. Simple production but packed with a bunch of lessons we still don't appreciate today.
I like the name Phil Fish. It sounds nice. Phil Fish. Phil Fisssh.
I may have missed the point of this video.
Fissssssssh.
Sounds like a rock stars name.
Kaoss134 heeeeeyyy HEEEEYYYYY i wanna be ah............................, NOPE NOPE NOPE
Kaoss134 Well, he is basically one of the rock stars in game development
phallus
It sound cool because it's made up =( his name is Philippe Poisson
I remember the first time I ever got top comment on a youtube video. The creator even mentioned it in the next video. I was on top of the world, and made it a hobby from then on to get noticed on all of the videos I liked. Fame does strange things to people, those receiving it and those observing it, even in small doses.
I wonder how this Phil Fish thing relates to people who get mad about their favorite youtubers "abandoning" their channels or the community they came from, like Huskystarcraft or Ster. More opinions on how famous people should act from people who don't have the whole picture and who don't even really know the answer to that themselves.
getting famous is a pretty funny phenomenon to be honest, and people should be more self aware about it. depending on the context, it is undeniably a double edged sword. even from the audience end, I always try to ensure that: "this person with an opinion has their own life, so one cannot judge them based on one point in life alone, it must be a product of other points in their life that resulted in this moment," but sometimes I even fail to do so. weird,
I was thinking about this video more after watching and thought of something interesting you didn't mention. Phil was on Giant Bomb's GDC liveshow and discussed his being a DJ. He explained that the best part of DJing was the instant feedback from the crowd at a party and how easy it was to read them. Interesting that he leaves a career that required so much of his time to create one thing that he got a lot of negativity for, and is now doing something where he can change people's moods and attitudes by simply playing a new song. Just a different form of expression with almost instant gratification.
I also enjoyed hearing his thoughts on VR (in that Giantbomb show); I don't think he is totally done with the game industry.
I certainly don't believe he's incapable of growing and maybe he'll get a second chance to take on "fame" again sometime down the line with a thicker skin and a humbler approach.
This video explains why I fear success as much as I fear failure.
success is one thing, fame is another. if fame is success for you, what you seek is validation and that's not a good path
90% of the comments on this video are missing the point. Despite the focus on Phil Fish, this video isn't actually ABOUT him. It's using him as an example. The description even says "a case study in internet celebrity." It certainly isn't a defense of him, except to the extent that it's a defense of everyone who's ever gotten famous on the Internet.
That exact mentality is even called out in the video.
"It would've been entirely justified to use Phil Fish to have a conversation about tokenism and cultural insensitivity...but instead, people used tokenism and cultural insensitivity to talk about Phil Fish. [...] People cared about racism only in as much as it let them hate Phil Fish."
From the future, I just want to say that I don't think that is as universalizable a point as is being presented. Fame on the internet isn't JUST something that happens. Many people actively try to make it happen. Can Innuendo remake this video about, say, pewdiepie? For all that we talk about how the public can simultaneously label someone famous and then attack them for not doing it right, is it still something tragic when we talk about someone like Markplier, someone who has sought popularity on the back of being an asshole? Is it wrong to criticize people like THAT for "being famous wrong"?
The idea of the video wasn't that it's wrong to criticize internet celebrities for "being famous wrong". It's a case study, an analysis on how internet subcultures and peoples behave towards internet celebrities like Phil Fish.
Literally not a single comment along the lines of what you said. When you are so desperate for a pat on the back that you’ll literally virtue signal a scenario FROM YOUR OWN IMAGINATION.
You had to LIE to feel like a good person
@@lyleinnoe2210 I made this comment 6 years ago, so A, what is the fucking point of this reply, and B, why are you acting like it's impossible that the comments from 6 years ago and the comments from today would be different?
Great Job Ian.
Only going to comment because of the final line in the video. That was an excellent mic drop. As someone who really doesn't care about any of this and just found this discussion of it interesting, that was an excellent moment.
Yes, it's a very well made video. It also avoids any of the real controversies or things why people dislike him.
Isn't that the point? To skirt the emotional investment and instead have the "useful" talk about how insular and unproductive the hatred itself is? How it doesn't qualify as news-worthy?
@@Dunam I believe Japanese games sucked (at least Jrpgs during the six generation), I commented that online and never ever I got the response to that comment like Phil Fish did. And there was no real controversy (at least that time), Phil even apologized to the Japenese guy but people don't care about that shit.
@@tomstonemale It was too fucking late for the tard too. Phillipe never apologised to the PC consumer base after describing the platform as "only good for spreadsheets". He can't be forgiven because he made no effort to be a professional for once in his god damn life.
And now he's living in the middle of a desert like Noah Antwiler(another failure), going nowhere and isn't really doing anything of worth.
@@DR3ADER1 What an aggressive takeaway. It's almost as if you're determined to dodge every point made in the video. Saying "he made no effort to be professional" after watching the video (assuming you actually watched the whole thing) misses the point so horrendously that you should seriously consider retaking high school English to work on your comprehension.
Almost five years later and this is still one of the greatest video essays I've ever seen.
But what if Phill really is the zodiac killer
this is my favorite UA-cam video. Damn this is soo unbelievably good. Much props for making this
Certainly something to think about.
Did not expect to stumble upon you here (3 years later be it)
All the other youtubers are posting here and so I feel that I should at least make a pointless post. Mission accomplished.
That being said, I'm envious of Phil's ability to make people angry. Trolls practice for years to hit the level that he sits at naturally.
Making people angry is like a super power to Phil.
Really, the only thing you need to make people angry is any sort of critical, contrary opinion that isn't popularly agreed on. Especially if it's in regard to any social issue, ever.
It doesn't matter if it's a caustic opinion or not either. Simply having it will make them angry.
Some people just aren't aware how much of an ***** they are.
difference is trolls pretend, Phil Fish does not.
ShadowHatter That's what the trolls keep telling themselves anyway.
I kinda like Nickelback :(
First to comment!!! :3
And I'm sure Nickelback kinda likes you. ;)
I love Nickelback!
You lost me on Nicekleback Hannah. Their "Im Mad At My Daddy" nerf metal growly stuff never moved me other than to swtich them off and turn on some Wagner...Now there is a guy who knew how to channel his pissed offness.
Loving the Watchdogs series almost as much as i loved the Delsin saga. You really give the play throughs some soul and depth.
I have all their albums X3
It's the height of irony that notch introduced me to this video and channel.
How did that happen?
Wat? That piece of human garbage linked you to a channel featuring "The Alt-Right Playbook" and "Why Are You Angry?" HOW?!
This is amazing.
@@cowboypuddingproductions5424 A special little snowflake.
In fairness, five years is a _lot_ of time for someone to go completely off the rails.
I'm not too big on the indie game scene so this is the first I've heard of Phil Fish, but that aside, your analysis on internet media and fame was phenomenal, both highly informative and well explained. Mad props.
Why does the use of the word "jew" as an insult always seem to make its way into any hate-filled comment section?
prolly cuz u are one
it's the antisemitism.
Hi from 2019.
The answer is nazis.
I like how no comment yet has understood the question.
Probably the same reason the N-word gets thrown around by 12-year olds on Xbox Live: A guttural impulse to say something that, not mattering if it applies at all, but is edgy and said in a way to be insulting and extreme. To get a reaction out of someone.
Depending on the context, I've seen people throw out hate speech to purposely act like a belligerent child and flame people on the internet and in real life.
They could also be using the racial insults because there's some underlying or overt racism from the user as well. There is still plenty of that in the world and the internet gives them a place to anonymously spread that hate in a place where they won't be immediately punched in the face. But what it comes down to again seems to be, just being edgy and controversial. Most people understand the concept of racism, understand that racism is controversial at best in any more "normal" social circles. They know that when they bring out those terms, they will get some kind of reaction from someone.
This was needed, thank you. Unfortunately, judging by the comments nobody got the point.
Or they disagree with the point being made.
or they didn't even watch the whole video. These days if it ain't something weird, a trend, a fight or less than 3 mins long, its not worthwhile to even give a glance.
Yeah, disagreement is a clear sign of ignorance. I mean who can disagree when the video is the ultimate truth, right?
ivanramos13 This video is no more the ultimate truth than a Kotaku editorial. It's one guy's view on the whole thing. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with it either. All I know is that Phil is just some guy who made video games and makes harsh comments, never paid any attention to him (or any games "journalism" in fact) since I knew I wouldn't get anything out of it. We're here on the internet where you will _always_ get someone with a differing opinion cause that's just how it works. It's only ignorance if they don't bother to learn all the facts prior to making their decision. What they do do (heh) with the facts is completely unique to them and shouldn't be labelled as any form of ignorance.
***** Of course, I completely agree. I was being sarcastic in my previous comment. There is no such thing as the ultimate truth, and disagreement never implies ignorance. It can be explained by it in some cases, but there's no direct causal relation.
In any case, this debate will most probably die down sooner than later, taking Fish's career along with it, unless he mans up, ignores the haters, stops being an ass and makes another game.
This is and likely always will be my favorite youtube video about gaming culture. I come back to it often and am always surprised by how thorough and insightful it is.
I like Phil Fish. I love that he gives the internet back what it hates, which is its own criticism. And the internet cannot handle it. It is pathetic really. It is easy to be a critic. It requires no thinking. It is much harder to actually understand someone.
Here's a wonderful thought on critics, from Roosevelt's "Citizenship In A Republic" speech:
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
Don't be a critic. Be a doer. Be a thinker. Understand people.
Very smart. +1 internet
Collin Humphrey Thank you (for taking the time to understand).
Xo na Those who can, do. Those who can't, often trivialize and attack those who can.
*Sits here, presses the thumb up button... realises I'm being a critic.* Oh.
MrAlterior Well... depends on the definition. The one we were running with was: "crit·ic ˈkridik/ noun 1. a person who expresses an unfavorable opinion of something." (P.S. I get it's a joke!)
Thanks for taking the time to put this together. Solid thoughts. Looking forward to more. Got a Twitter handle?
Where ever there is good intellectual conversations about Video Games and it's industry, I can always count on you to be there. Much love.
Zack The Great Indeed, too many people just do pointless rants which say nothing except that the ranter has a temper. I'm currently learning how to code html css and javascript. In about three years I will have enough qualifications to potentially become a professional programmer. Remind me never to say anything negative online o.O
Psst, it @innuendostudios
@InnuendoStudios, but it looks like you already found it. I'm humbled.
I come back and watch this video every so often
A few years ago I was trying to develop an iso engine. I had never heard of Anita Sarkeesian. I naively tried to discuss my work on stack exchange. I was eviscerated. I quit my project. It broke my heart.
This year I went broke. Since I couldn't afford cable anymore I took up watching UA-cam. I finally found out about gamergate. I had no clue when I was too busy working slavishly in obscurity on my game to worry about anything else.
Did I mention the rejection of those whom I thought of as my peers broke my heart? I'm still not really over it. Maybe now that I know why...
Maybe...
I’m not gonna lie to you fam, even after reading this 4 times I still don’t entirely get what you said but assuming that you valued those peers and wish to reconnect with them I hope you find a way to make that a reality.
damn look at all the comments cherrypicking quotes from the video and ignoring his point
+Toshinou Kyoko Some people can't hear a word or name and not start an argument about it. It's Pavlovian.
+Toshinou Kyoko Just like the creator of this video cherrypicking quotes and telling outright lies.
+Toshinou Kyoko
A lot of quotes from the video are generalizations of an audience. The way he describes Phil Fish's hate fits the way he wants to display his points. Its not even malicious actually, part of it is mostly due to editing convenience and you are supposed to make some nuance, there's no such thing as pure objectivity.
This however, didn't go so well with people here.
The very last thing the video shows, and I admit I'm cherrypicking this one because it's the easiest of all examples to demonstrate. I can name a few more instances. Things the video would be better without. The very last thing in the video was a strawman attack. He made a generalization of what Phil's haters were like early on: "Phil Fish hasn't made a single game!", only to have a closure at the end of the video telling them off. Who actually said that though?
Now think for a moment:
- Was this even that much of a notable thing that Phil Fish haters spread? -
Why does it get special treatment as the very last thing you're left with at the end of the video? Ultimately, why did stating that matter all? Why give it importance? What did he author want us to think of that?
You know the answer to that. You know exactly that it was a shoddy defense attempt. And see what I'm getting at? People doing these nitpicks are defending themselves. And in fact Innuendo Studios probably is aware it'd happen. I mean, he did, despite telling us otherwise, defend Phil Fish, beyond the necessity of what points he had to make in the video. That's why it was important to them to end the video on that note.
Now don't be fooled just because I'm accusing the author. He's still absolutely correct about his points though. On many things. This video is the best, most intelligent thing to take out from Phil's fame. There's just so much to go on from this. So many parallels to make.
But let's tread back for a moment, notice how I've described the action you pointed out? I said "Defending themselves". Aren't they? Isn't that what you were implying as well? Let's say it out loud for the children, the nitpickers you were laughing about were Phil Fish haters trying to make a point against the video. Hell, I guess I'm on that boat now, I ended up doing the same, look at me, defending the haters, lol.
Cat's out of the bag. But what does that change? Were these nitpicks a bad thing? *WHY?*
Which is why I'll make this the final point of my reply: Phil's most famous and almost ubiquitous reason of fame was his Choke on Dick line. This is for many, entirely the reason why anyone began to care. And would be the end of it easily even with a lot of asshole celebrities. No one could defend that. Ever. Not even the author, that's why there's no point 3. That's why this line is paired with something else and then forgotten about.
+QuintaFeira12 Um... pretty sure those last two points were meant to be footnotes
DiEx80
yeah that's pretty much how I felt about it too. the only thing from the video I didn't really agree with was the whole "image vs person", especially when the person in question isn't a clear representation of something you hate (other than a douchebag ofc)
This video hasn't lost any relevance. Not because of Phil Fish, even less will know who he is today, but because of the mechanics discussed.
Well said, you probably could have taken "dubstep" instead of nickelback too. You don't like music, because of the sound; You like / dislike it because of the people playing it and the values they represent for you.
Wrong. I'll point to myself as an example - when I first heard dubstep nothing existed (no names no people) in the music except for the exceptional thrumming in my body and I had no idea who or where it came from.
The first song I listened to had been filtered through the public before it got to me (it was an example of the 'new' dubstep) and I enjoyed it enough that I stopped what I was doing and immediately set out to find who made it and what more I could find like it.
I know there is a large amount of people who dislike and even hate dubstep but I still go back to it and enjoy the well-mixed tracks regardless. Either way if dubstep was that unacceptable it would have never have taken off as the cost of production would have outpaced the profits and money is king.
Alexander Juring Yeah, that's true. But than your relation to the dubstep "communety" can't be too bad. Because the video was more about disliking something, i focused on that point;
Every music is hearable - otherwise there wouldn't be people hearing it.
But why so many people hate country, dubstep, rap, folk, ... ? Remeber: They all have a passionated audience.
- Because they don't like the lifestyle the audience represents.
Let's take me as an example this time: I hate everything related to rap. All the stuff about "i'm the cooles and fuck your bitch" etc., i can't stand this. And that's why i hate rap. It's not the actual rap music, i can feel the beat and hear the powerful rimes too, can move the head and go with the music, but there would be no way i would search for some rap music on youtube or stuff like that. In contrary! Because i hate the scene, i claim to hate the music too, even if in fact, it sounds good too.
In oposition i love the reggae riddems, the bassline, the vibes, no matter if they are happy or sad. And that's because i love the people associated with that kind of music, the ideas. So i listen to it a lot and don't have a problem with all the very religious texts, even when i'm normally zero religious.
That's normal. We are humans, and we need other humans.
You see?
So, what i actually wanted to say:
Don't blame the music if you don't like a genre ;)
Sometimes it's just better to relax and forget the people.
Also: All music genres sound so different and each have unique specials.
Try it; Take a look out of your windows on a sunny day and listen to songs from completely different genres. You will recognize how different the world outside feels, this all the different kinds of sound. And you recognize that you can't really say, that one is better than an other (;
- i wrote parts of this under a video with people discussing about brostep vs "real dubstep", but it fits here too.
HimGames I think Kanye West publicly is an asshole. But if he ever had a concert in my area i would go to it because i like his music
HimGames Ah, my bad I misunderstood. I immediately saw you compare dubstep to phil fish and was like "no way!" haha. You're right, like in the very well thought out video the reactions are based on how we feel about the related subject matter. Within the past hour I just proved once again turning on a pop song in the background has woken me up when a 20FLoz Red Bull and two Starbucks doubleshot expressos still had me closing my eyes, so I won't debate music's effect on the brain.
But as for your blanket feelings for entire genres of music? I think that's dangerous thinking man. You have to keep an open mind - same type of thinking can shut out a lot of things, you don't want to make it a habit. You might like Coolio's Gangsta's Paradise or Will Smith's Fresh Prince rap, you never know. (hatebush1234 Or Kanye's Stronger collab with Daft Punk, even though I'm not a fan of him in particular)
Alexander Juring Haha, yeah, that's why there are clock radios, right?
True, it's dangerous and i though can bump my head too most of that beats, just like to every other music. But it's just that i would never hear it loudly or go on a concert, just because i don't like & won't like to be associated with the lifestyle the fans of this kind of music represent. It's a bit like not eating meat, because you don't like fattening farms, even though it tastes good.
Why did this video get recomended in 2019? interesting watch though
Welcome to Breadtube!
I was just wondering the same thing
As soneone else said. Cancelculture before cancelculture
You can learn from other peoples mistakes, and if you learn fast enough, you can prevent yourself from becoming the next Phil Fish.
*****
Sorry man, I am not interested in making theories about dating Simulators.
ProtoMario You just missed the entire point of the video.
***** I dunno, after watching this video I kind of want to be Phil Fish now. :)
ProtoMario You do mean, If you're lucky you *COULD* become the next Phil, right? I knew I was right.
Just Phil
Aren't you late for your roasting, oh sorry, your a smelly fish, you need boiled. Too late, the internet already cooked you good man, lol. Deep Fried Fish. But hey if you can't stand the kitchen don't be a fish!
the internet needs way, way more of this kind of calm de-escalation. thankyou
I think we could accomplish that with way, way fewer comments sections.
@@russelljackson2818 I wonder how big "comment sections" are in terms of the problem compared to, say, social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter.
This is one of my favorite videos and I keep coming back to it because of your superb ability to express these overarching concepts that sometimes are overlooked. Keep up the good work!
This is a video I keep finding myself coming back to every once in a while.
I will say this, i'm a fan of Phil, he says alot of stuff that people who pay attention to games will often say, if you own the Spacial Edition of Indie Game The Movie you can clearly see that Phil knows his stuff when talking about Video Game design. I study video games design at university and will more than likely soon go into the industry, its clear from a mile out that he knows what he's talking, and to the people who say Phil isn't talented and mock him for spending 4 years on a game, what have you spent 4 years doing? Have you been in education, or in a job? How have you done in those years because Phil, in comparison, got an A* for FEZ, he got the best promotion the company has ever given out, it sold amazing and critics loved it, hating Phil for something many consider the best example of an Indie Game is simply pointless.
When I said Phil says alot of what we will say is true, When he said that Japanese games suck he said exactly what Jon Blow said but with fewer and more insulting words, Jon Blow agreed with Phil and anybody who follows Japanese games (I'm not one of them) knows that they have taken a noise dive in the last 5-8 years, I know this because I follow games, I follow this industry and like Phil Fish I love what I do.
He, unlike me, just has a really shitty way of doing it but Phil is famous because he has achieved what so many of us can't. Success while being ourself's.
Oh I like this guy
Vidya General What does that even achieve ?
Shortmike1997 Thank you :)
What does hating him achieve? What does liking him achieve?
Vidya General The difference between those is that terrorism and cancer hurt people. This is a guy spreading questionable opinions on the internet. But like I said, your business. I don't justify his actions, I just don't care anymore since he's old news, and as far as I know, he hasn't said anything since, so I'm not going to hold a grudge over him anymore. And I Really don't want to get into an argument.
"It becomes psychologically necessary to hate Phil."
I see this repeating with Anita Sarkeesian.
What arguments? I posted a comment highlighting a part of the video I found particularly relevant to 2014.
I don't think it's quite the same thing with Anita Sarkeesian. What she's doing is a positive, necessary thing (working toward gender equality in games) but she's doing it in a toxic, hostile way (explicit misandry - not all the time, but often enough to be statistically relevant). Misogynists hate her because she opposes them. SJWs love her because they feel psychologically obliged to support any feminist movement. But it's possible to dislike her for reasons that have nothing to do with her popularity or influence.
"SJWs love her because they feel psychologically obliged to support any feminist movement."
Yeah, not even close. Everyone has their own reasons for who they like and what they support. You don't get to mindread everyone who disagrees with you.
Michael 마익흘 Aronson
I'm referring to SJW in its original, derogatory term - "social justice warrior" meaning someone who either supports social justice because of what it will earn them (rather than for the moral reasons), or someone who uses the moral reasons as a bludgeon to win them fights in the grey-area and/or shut down the opposition. THOSE people do, in fact, need to support Anita Sarkeesian because not doing so would run against the game plan and harm their interests.
But as someone who supports social justice on its own merits, I think that people who go after the wrong targets and support the wrong figures could actively harm the good fight we're fighting.
"THOSE people do, in fact, need to support Anita Sarkeesian because not doing so would run against the game plan and harm their interests."
Except that nobody identifies as a social justice warrior, until threatened little men start throwing around the label.
The only thing that baffled me were the attacks on FEZ itself. I could accept that Phil Fish might be an asshole, but FEZ was a fantastic game. And whether or not you enjoyed it, $10 was more than fair for the price of the game.
Yet, every time I found Phil Fish comments, it was always, "FEZ sucked balls. I would never pay $10 for that shit-fest." I found FEZ to be an interesting new perspective on a genre of game that had long fallen out of popularity and I found some of the puzzles extremely engaging. I enjoyed the artstyle, though I can understand people who don't enjoy Pixel Art. From an art standpoint, the pixel art was an important part of the overarching themes of the game, with blocks, squares, and the most basic shape to render in 3D.
I don't think I've ever met anyone one who doesn't know who Phil Fish is, has played FEZ, and hates the game.
JossCard42 Damn that's a missed opportunity for a pun. "I would never pay $10 for that shit-fezt." ;D
and the SOUNDTRACK wow
Well, a sheep always need to fit into the pack....
This is one of the best videos on UA-cam ever, period. I saw this when it first came out and I still watch from time to time because of how great it is. By far the most level headed evaluation of Phil Fish, a man turned overnight internet villain. Published at a time when it could have been easier to just blindly shit on him and rake in more views. Yet you provided the most in-depth and unbiased view of this whole situation. Hats off to you, man.
scratch that, this is a high quality, long form video essey made in 2014! it's borderline revolusionary!
Another fantastic video is Internet Historian's "engoodening of no man's sky".
Watch more shit
"I have no positive or negative opinion on the character of a person I've never met." -Halfway Decent Person
That profile picture really shows you being a halfway decent person.
"If I die, tell my wife....hello."
Thank you for inspiring Notch to sell Mojang...... :(
this didn't inspire, all you whiners about the EULA which WAS ALL JEBS FAULT made him quit.
Imperial Game Reviewer the fault on the EULA lies at the angry/stupid parents who blamed mojang for the admins of some servers trying to make money of their servers
WTH, the EULA wasn't even changed much! The Pay2Win things were always forbidden and with this step they got the Server owners to look at it.
The guys that made him sell Mojang also weren't only the (stupid) guys crying about the EULA. Like he said the game got too big and he got mails about everything! (Herobrine, Eula, Suggestions, Bugs, etc)
Imperial Game Reviewer It was actually this video _in combination_ of the EULA that made him realise that he doesn't want to be famous in the first place.
Are you guys actually trying to make it somebody's fault here?
It would be nice to just accept Notch's decision and leave him alone for a change.
I don't really have an opinion on Phil Fish, and if I did, I certainly wouldn't want to voice it because that would attract flamer faster than a cow turd attracts flies. All I want to say is that if I got as much hatred as he did on a daily basis, I would probably do the same thing and quit. Doing what you love isn't worth putting up with the whole world slinging mud at you constantly.
The mud-slinging IS what he loved. He loved it more than game development. It just doesn't pay as well, sadly.
@@TheSoulHarvester are you fucking stupid? I really dont understand how people manage to be watching a video that proves exactly the fucking opposite of what they're about to comment but they will comment it anyways
@@TheSoulHarvester Check your logic bro.
I didn't really follow this story when it was blowing up ; though I do recall several of his tweets being tacky and immature. I don't get how people are picking apart his IGF acceptance speech though -- no trace of humility or "surprise" ? So everyone who wins an award is supposed to act completely shocked and bewildered? His speech wasn't even tacky or self-aggrandizing -- He thanked all the people who contributed to his game and even threw in a shout out to his mom and dad... Pretty much a spot on imitation to 90% of awards speeches in every genre of popular entertainment. I think people are making a mountain out of a mole hill. He might be an ass but he's very young and like most people in life, has a lot of growing ahead of him. People are sounding nearly as tacky as he did just piling on him as they have been for years.
Why would he be surprised he won a competition where multiple judges were financially invested into his game and profited from any of its success?
Yep, it was pretty rigged.
@@Dunam [citation needed]
Wow. I never had much compassion, can't say that I do now, but this explains a lot about the internet hype train and the new ways we perceive fame.
Envy is a disgusting state of mind.
I honestly think it's really frightening to be Internet famous. When they love you, it's all fantastic. But the moment the mob turns on you, it gets so frightening.
utube19834
that's fame in general, but it's easier to get it online. ;v
utube19834 I can confirm that the mob is terrifying.
I hadn't thought about internet fame before, but yeah, this puts it in a really accurate light.
Do a "This is Sean Murray"
this is "sean murphy"
Who is Sean Murroy?
sean murphy is an important figure in food culturre
Murphy is Eddie, from Men in black. I'm asking about this Murrey guy.
sean murphy is the most important character in men in black
I'm leaving Mojang
September 15th, 2014
I don't see myself as a real game developer. I make games because it's fun, and because I love games and I love to program, but I don't make games with the intention of them becoming huge hits, and I don't try to change the world. Minecraft certainly became a huge hit, and people are telling me it's changed games. I never meant for it to do either. It's certainly flattering, and to gradually get thrust into some kind of public spotlight is interesting.
A relatively long time ago, I decided to step down from Minecraft development. Jens was the perfect person to take over leading it, and I wanted to try to do new things. At first, I failed by trying to make something big again, but since I decided to just stick to small prototypes and interesting challenges, I've had so much fun with work. I wasn't exactly sure how I fit into Mojang where people did actual work, but since people said I was important for the culture, I stayed.
I was at home with a bad cold a couple of weeks ago when the internet exploded with hate against me over some kind of EULA situation that I had nothing to do with. I was confused. I didn't understand. I tweeted this in frustration. Later on, I watched the This is Phil Fish video on UA-cam and started to realize I didn't have the connection to my fans I thought I had. I've become a symbol. I don't want to be a symbol, responsible for something huge that I don't understand, that I don't want to work on, that keeps coming back to me. I'm not an entrepreneur. I'm not a CEO. I'm a nerdy computer programmer who likes to have opinions on Twitter.
As soon as this deal is finalized, I will leave Mojang and go back to doing Ludum Dares and small web experiments. If I ever accidentally make something that seems to gain traction, I'll probably abandon it immediately.
Considering the public image of me already is a bit skewed, I don't expect to get away from negative comments by doing this, but at least now I won't feel a responsibility to read them.
I'm aware this goes against a lot of what I've said in public. I have no good response to that. I'm also aware a lot of you were using me as a symbol of some perceived struggle. I'm not. I'm a person, and I'm right there struggling with you.
I love you. All of you. Thank you for turning Minecraft into what it has become, but there are too many of you, and I can't be responsible for something this big. In one sense, it belongs to Microsoft now. In a much bigger sense, it's belonged to all of you for a long time, and that will never change.
It's not about the money. It's about my sanity.
#notch ...
Damn Ninjas...
"What I did, I did in the name of peace and sanity." -- The (forgotten) Doctor
>working for mojang in the first place
>game devs
>minecraft
>not working for glorious game dev companies like bethesda
come on you pleb
*****
You have obviously never had a discussion with a Bethesda developer when they were clearly wrong about something...
Damn, that ending.
The effects of fame is why I always try to act on the internet the way I would in real life. The people are real so why should I act differently.
People feel like there's no consequences on the internet but it's totally opposite. If you really do something bad worthy of persecution the internet will come down on you like hell. In real life there is more immediate social consequences yes, but at least for the most part you're protected by laws and there's no law on the internet.
Amazing video, well done.
#HayCoe :P
Four years ago in high school I couldn't understand most of the video. But now that I can understand it I can't be more grateful for this video.
Jezus man i'm comming back to this 8 years later and holy smite is this a wonderfull insightfull video.
Can't believe I've not seen this before. It's so well made. I've actually met Phil Fish and he's a pretty normal, decent guy. This could happen to anyone.
No, he's a douche. I know because I've met him.
This is fantastic!
No you
People have been telling me I need to watch this and I'm so glad that I finally did. Phil is just the example in this vid... but I have seen it applied to so many other people online that it all goes in a pattern. This video nails that pattern. Well done.
Patrick Scott Patterson Good to see you here. Glad you watched it.
this is just the best video. i come back to this over the years and this is, unquestionably, the best video. to light a fire that would basically massively increase the production of video essays over the next decade and still end up being the best one is quite a ridiculous accomplishment, but this does everything as perfect as it could. all while becoming more and more relevant every. single. year.
Really easy to apply a lot of this to recent contra backlash. She started by making videos trying to talk about alt right ideology and deconstructing their tricks, and ended up with an audience. And audience with wildly varied opinions about what she should and should not be doing with her channel. Shes also said some shady stuff in the past, and that created the concept around her that many disliked about her (and larger habits of breadtube as a whole). Claims of her being intolerant towards non binary people could -kinda- be backed up by certain tweets. And there is a lack of diversity among who is considered "real breadtube", which is mostly well off white people. When contra makes a 40 minute video defending different gender identities, it's ignored, while a handful of poorly worded tweets get blasted across the internet bc "contra was enbyphobic. You were right" gets more news. Which isn't to say contra is some innocent victim. I found her stance of buck angel in her cancelled video lacking, and I ultimately don't much care for the man, even if I do give him credit for leading the way forward for trans people. But I also think there is more to the hate since all it took was 12 seconds on a 40 minute video to completely upend her life and the life of her friends. It's bigger than buck. And here, it seems best explained. She "isn't being famous right". Shes a model for a community. Things placed upon her, not things she asked for, and she "should've known better" which is easy to say when it isn't you.
I don know. It's very interesting that such an old video still so easily explains and predicts how the internet reacts to celebrity. It's a compliment to the making of the video while also being a condemnation of how little we've changed.
Laura Bailey and her son got death threats because people didn't like a game she was in. Contra stanning Buck hurts, but celebrities so obviously don't deserve this treatment.
Very poignant response
I was thinking of Contra, too - I'm *not* a fan of her stuff and still pretty unhappy about her singular-they-related Twitter thread, but I definitely caught glimpses of a really creepy pattern of quotemining and hyperbolizing and reiterating points and interpreting remarks uncharitably which ... yeah, I'm pretty sure was a population of haters making themselves feel justified in slinging abuse her direction.
you had me up until you misgendered her
@@jacksonsmith2955 i think the comment was in reference to buck angel, not contra
this is such a brilliant essay and still holds up today, well worth the rewatch
Anita Sarkeesians Comment on her : "She is a JEW"
i just forgot how hilariously stupid the internet can be sometimes
""jew" is another one of those buzzwords that can mean absolutely anything to different people
@@porksauce3465 Only to idiots and Nazis. Nazis and far-righters have begun to use "jew" as a synonym for "person I don't like,"
From anyone who uses "jew" in that way, it's meant as a direct threat against the target's life.
She is literally ashkenazi jewish though.
Huh. Neat.
CubedPotatoesHD Uhhh, no she isn’t. She’s Armenian.
This is, actually, the best description of Nickelback I've ever heard.
"Confirming preconceptions is what makes it news."
Quote of the century.
That was well worth the 19 minuets. I wish it was 19 more.
As a latino, the fact that you pointed out that for POC this would be different is incredibly aware. Thank you. Because this whole thing was good (right or wrong), but you're very much right in that it would be different for any POC.
I didn't understand that part. Could you explain to me how different it would be?
"He is white, male, middle class and is presumed to be both straight and cis gender. If you lack one or more of these traits, expect this backlash sooner."
Without being too wordy, I think a good way to frame this is to think about how this may have been different were Phil Fish "Phanny Fish" and a woman. He's the exception because he's rolled the dice perfectly here. There isn't much of a social stigma attached to Phil Fish outside of his own actions and what he says or does because that's all people hate him for: his actions. However, if he were say, a chick, or gay, (s)he would be subject to a completely different kind of scrutiny socially.
Guys, what's happening here? You disagree and you are being civil. Is this real life, or is this just fantasy.
*tips imaginary hat in your direction
Yeah, this needs to be highlighted a lot more in the gaming community. Unfortunately that means confronting a largely young and abrasive audience who like the perception of 'we don't give a fuck' to be cast on them, despite the clear lack of diversity. Its gonna be a while before any headway is made.
Slimebeast Pug Well, can we also remove monsters, magic, wizards, anything clean, like anything, everything should be dirty. Because that shit is also unrealistic.
18:22 predicted Contrapoints and Lindsay Ellis among other progressive UA-camrs perfectly.
I always thought that people overreacted with Phil. He was having a bad time, and if you've seen Indie Movie you know he's not exactly confident. He even said he would kill himself if he wouldn't fisnish Fez.
When you screw up and say something you didn't think about, and you're Phil Fish, you don't take haters really well. So he got famous of not taking haters very well. And that's the idea that internet created of Phil Fish. He's personality is destorted by the media, which only shows the pissed off Phil. He's not an asshole, he wasn't able to not care.
It's fascinating that this video came out a few months before Gamergate got rolling.
fun fact: This video had influence into convincing Notch to sell minecraft
elaborate?
@@LizIsWeird-tk7uk A while ago when Notch was asked why he sold minecraft he directly cited this video as being the tipping point in him selling it.
After watching the Internet landscape evolve in the years since this video, I've come to the conclusion that "cancel culture" is a concept that is real, but only affects those who were already disenfranchised.
Many "cancelled" celebrities have weaponised their wrongdoings to grift their hardcore stan's and anti-SJW chuds out of their money. Many artists have committed horrible crimes and were left unpunished RIGHT UNTIL their work stopped being profitable in the eyes of their higher-ups.
Meanwhile, microcelebrities (such as Phil Fish) and just regular people, who do not have PR or Marketing teams on their side and are ultimately small in the grand scheme of things, do not have the emotional strength to handle a massive barrage of harassment, and for people in minority groups, that ill-intentioned harassment comes on top of the usual hate speech that they recieve.
In short, the celebrities crying foul over "cancel culture" will never actually suffer the real consequences of it as long as they keep the money flowing. It's them trying to relate to those without their privilege in order to maintain it.
Hipsters aren't microcelebrities. They are a blight on humanity and should be endlessly mocked until they are a crying wreck.
ty for this comment 👍
I mean, actors do lose jobs over being cancelled, like that woman from The Mandalorian who expressed the wrong opinion on whatever hot button issue. Usually though they get new jobs pretty quickly.
But unless your definition of "disenfranchised" is "people who aren't major celebrities", you're wrong, it happens to all sorts of people and internet personalities. Problem is that attempts to cancel are nowadays mostly based on a moral police telling you what you can and can't say and what opinions are acceptable and which aren't. In other words, SJW nonsense.
The reason they keep failing to cancel conservatives, edgelords, and even liberals (as in people who actually like liberalism) is that those people don't care because they agree with the fundamental mentality of "I get to decide what you say", whereas they keep succeeding in cancelling each other, because the goal posts keep shifting for what is appropriate to say once you've accepted that moral policing of public expression as something good and necessary. People who do that moral policing and join in the hunt for cancel culture (often those whom you term "disenfranchised") will soon be eaten by that same movement because it moved the goal posts and what was once the right opinion has now turned into the wrong one, or is not progressive enough.
The right doesn't act that way, which is why it's harder to cancel people on the right. It's that simple.
Love how you threw in "chud". Please, dude, get off breadtube. What's deemed a minority group changes every year and that's why ya'll keep canceling each other. You eat your own constantly.
this is entirely correct in every possible way, and this was extremely satisfying to watch packaged up neatly
one of youtubes most important videos. timeless
This is the video I was watching in 2017 when I spilled water on my laptop and broke it. Funny the things you remember
This is a completely random comment but I know exactly what you mean.
I revisit this video every time there is A Great Cancelling on Twitter. It's so perceptive.
I've watched this a handful of times. Such a brilliant think-piece!
You are an amazing concept, we need more concepts like you on the internet. Looking at both sides, presenting that information, and letting the veiwer decide what to do with it. Genius. Too many people just look for information that agrees with their opinion and ignore everything else. Thank you for attempting to make people open their minds. Though I consider myself fairly open minded, this helps me think of even more to consider and apply to other things, and I hope it inspires others to consider the information that is not given directly too them and try to see the other side from a new perspective. Thank you again, you bring hope to the internet.
I don't think this video represents a good objective view of Phil Fish or the attention he's gotten on the internet. It represents his opinion which he's derived from the information which he has gather regarding Phil Fish.
I'm not saying that his opinion isn't good or valid, just that it starts objective but soon ventures into the depths of theories and personal opinion.
The video is not just about Phil, it's about the concept of people like Phil. I think it's sorta like a, "Hey, before you call this guy an asshole, maybe consider why? And why you even care? Then, feel free to call him an asshole."
Also pretty sure this video is supposed to be his opinion on these matters, not every last detail about the success and failures of Phil Fish and his personal character.
Yeah I didn't know anything about him and he seemed ok but then after seeing his attitude and comments that he made it really turned me off there's no excuse for it but I wish he just gave an explanation instead of saying fuck you to all his fans.Then he got even more full of himself, check his twitter.I saw him call his game a masterpiece and insult other indie devs unjustly, call Anita Sarkeesian a hero, tell his fans that supported him and got him to success that they can go fuck themselves they don't DESERVE a Fez 2.I keep an open mind, it's just guarded against bullshit.But hey I'll try to look at from other views since I know what it's like to not be understood and to be unjustly discriminated against but NOTHING can change how terrible a person he is.
He does seem like a douche, but who cares, plus it seems to only make him more popular.
Nick Callahan Yeah, it just baffles me how he can act like this and so many people support him even when he directly saying fuck you to them.
I just don't know man XD
I sent this to my online communication class.
I've been saying this to anyone that was hating on Phil Fish for years.
"The hate is just because has a massive magnifyer on him. If anyone else said the same things, nobody would've batted an eye."
And I'm in on the Nickelback joke, but I know it's a joke. I know it's the concept. And people who jump on these bandwagons have a hard time distincting it and just repeat the quotes from others like HE is the one who deserves the hate.
No, the "hate" stemmed from his inability to handle being challenged, criticised, mocked, and sent dissent from people who saw through his bullshit facade. That happens when you treat your potential consumer base like shit and then, expect them to pay up for your shitty game.
I don't think he ever said the hate was deserved or undeserved, he just explained how and why it happens
I think his hate isn't undeserved, being blunt and brash gets you blunt and brash back, it's the science behind the attention and the heart of the why
this video was prophetic to how media depicts donald trump post-2015
@@f67739 huuuhhhh... No ? I don't see any mention of concentration camps and dead children in it...
Clicked a video about fish, I wasn't expecting to learn about Nickelback
Honestly if he's reading this right now I want to say "thank you Phil Fish for making Fez. It's one of very few games that have touched me over the years and I still think about it all the time. I genuinely hope you are well and I'm sorry for all the hate you got over the years."
He attacked people and developers over the smallest of issues and made one mediocre game, he deserves what he got, please stop, you look pathetic.
@@Haddonfield.31 Regardless of what anyone does, no one deserves what I've seen Phil Fish get. And differing opinions, I suppose because to me he's created one of the best games ever made in the history of the industry and it's incredibly sad we may never see another like it.
@@Joshua_Tymchyn Im sorry, but if you consider Fez one of the greatest games ever made in the industry then you haven't played much, especially since Fez adopted alot of concepts from games that came before it.
I think Phil Fish is an interesting guy, and I really enjoyed his game.
+maxwell simon Fez is awesome. I don't care about this guy but I'm sad we will never see another Fez.
Nice profile pic
Nearly 10 years later and this is still a excellent time capsule.
Probably the best video I've ever seen on the internet.
You can't even imagine how many times i've said to my friends (who all hates Phil) the things that you told in this video.
Thank you.
Beautiful dissertation. Great summary about Internet culture, and tokenization of perceptions.
18:06 and THIS is why I like small youtubers better than big ones. (with the exeption of science channels)
Damn. So incredibly well done. That's all I've got. Logical and respectful. I went into that video expecting one thing and left it feeling a complete other. Nicely done!
Absolutely phenomenal video. Enjoyed it thoroughly. Thank you for creating it.
Just finished FEZ and loved it. Really really loved it. Also, this video is very insightful. Glad you made it and I hope this kind of fair analysis catches on.
This makes Chappell Roan’s recent comments on fame feel all the more relevant-that people expect her to give up her time and energy to interact with total strangers and frown upon her (or worse) if she doesn’t
i play video games religiously and when ever people talked about FEZ i thought it was a new PEZ candy...
You didn't instinctively think of the type of hat?
***** all praise the almighty EA gods. All heathens must die.
plez dont hurt me
+LetoZeth I've been playing video games for 25+ years now, and I know what a fez is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Also: Whoa dude, easy. Don't talk like that to people you don't know only because they have, at worst, told a lame joke.
That is not a good way to go through life, mate.
I have been playing video games for 29 years.. Whatever THAT has to do with ANYTHING?...
¯\(ツ)/¯
Also: Easy on what? Saying that someone lacks education and life experience? Gez.. Grow up mate.
This is a great video. I remember watching Phil Fish in the documentary and never knew about this incredible hatred that followed. If you become famous or even micro-famous the best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them. But, at the same time, responding to trolls is what makes the news, which will expand your audience. I can't wait until my fire-breathing turtle circus takes off so I get the opportunity to choose which path I take.
Well... This was eye opening. Great video :)
I think 15:30 well summarizes why people get famous on the Internet. We are the ones that make people famous.
This is such a well done video. I find myself rewatching it once a year or so.