Drum Pedal Spring Tension Explained Pt 2 - Checking Your Tension
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
- Here I show you what I consider loose, medium, or tight tension based on how the pedal reacts, not just relative to one another on the screw. This pedal goes both above and below the useful playable tension range. Not all pedals are like this and some will be skewed to one end or the other on this spectrum or have a much narrower range. Others maybe even a wider range. It really depends on the brand, model, beater type and weight, and the other adjustments on the pedal.
I have a double kick pedal and it's complicated to get each side exactly same tension but this video was very helpful . I learned that it can't be too tight or too loose,so Thanks again.
Very well done thank you.. And don't you just love it when you find the 'sweet spot' between distances and angles and tensions etc?.. it feels like heaven (well to a kit drummer it does ;)
It was very helpful Thanks
Great video Ryan!!! I enjoy it!!!please if you want make a video about diferent position on beater ankle!!!
Great content!
I was just going over this topic with my drum instructor last week. Weird..
As regards video ideas, maybe you can share some thoughts on feathering and Latin bass drum Patterns. A different side of the coin to metal when it comes to foot speed.
How about tearing down and cleaning your bass drum pedals? I told myself that I would do this for my single and double pedals during the winter while it is too cold to play in my shed. But instead I have been making techno musics. xD
Haze Anderson that’s a good idea. I think I might have cleaned my main pedal like 1 time in 18 years. I oil my pedals when they start to squeak and that’s basically it. Maybe I should buy another used pedal and do a vid on cleaning it up once I get it... now that I might be willing to do.
The types of the drum spring also play an important role.
My Tama speed cobra black spring is felt harder to stretch than regular drum spring.
Hello! I like your vídeos. Would you make one about how to study different stick heights in an efficient way? It intrigues me very much, because i don't find the method to emulate the exact same height every day without changing it a little. I don't trust in my percepction. I thought about using a mirror with measurements, maybe, but i can't take it everywhere i go like a practice pad. I hope you can help me. Regards!
Bongan Ceballa I know this comment is old, but I just wanted to say I saw it. I don’t use exact stick heights. The only time that matters is in marching band, which I’m not in. So I literally never worry about exacting heights. I just listen for the volume I want to hear, and use whatever height gets that at the moment. There are a few products out there on the market that help you with precise stick heights by attaching something to the drum to measure against. It’s a purely visual thing, so a visual guide is key. The precise height means little to the sound as it doesn’t factor in how hard you’re hitting. Though relative heights do help immensely. Anyway check out specific marching band stick height aids if you’re really needing that. I don’t use them but I have seen them, so I know they exist.
I would like to see a video about positioning drums and body, body and drums etc.
Have you watched my extensive ergonomics series? That’s basically what it is about.
@@RyanAlexanderBloom Ohh my bad! I haven't but now I will hehe
One thing that should influence pedal tension as well other than the weight of your leg is the cam action, as most pedal cams are not linear.
CrimSun the cam and the beater length, the footboard height and the beater weight all affect the system. If you keep them consistent while adjusting the spring they shouldn’t make any difference since it’s going to be consistent across any tension. But if you change another variable then yeah it very well may affect the effective spring tension. What cam you have should be mostly irrelevant if you aren’t changing it. The spring adjustments might be altered slightly but all the same way across the tension spectrum. So essentially you won’t notice unless you’re directly comparing different pedals.
nice video!
But i really wonder how to get the spring tension for both pedals in sync. the left pedal twiches really weak in comparison to the right pedal, probably due to the link.
But now my problem is: do i have to have a higher spring tension for the left pedal, to compromise that, or maybe is there a technical problem like the link is getting to "rusty" or something.
asdf qwertz a lot of people have been asking similar versions of this question lately but the truth is I’m not sure there is a great way to get them even that works for everyone on every pedal. In fact I think it may be nearly impossible to get the slave side the same as the master at some level on any pedal. Lots of people have recommended that I get a trick driveshaft. Or at least a shaft with bearings instead of just hinges. That is one of the Internet wisdoms I hear often. There are also people who say weighting the beaters differently helps or that you can adjust it purely with spring tension. It’s sort of a trial an error thing based on your settings and the type of pedal. I’ve played with both a double pedal and 2 singles and while I can tell the difference it isn’t so great that my playing is seriously affected in either direction.
asdf qwertz Hey, I have a method to get a double pedal balanced. First get your main pedal to the tension you like it. Then using both arms press both pedals all the way down so the beaters rest against the head. Release both pedals at the same time. Watch the swing speed of both beaters. Are they the same? If so, then the pedals are balanced. If the slave is slower, tighten that spring a bit and repeat the process. If the slave is faster loosen that spring. The slave will never swing as long as the main beater, but if the 1st 4-6 swings are the same then it's as close as you can get it. Good luck!
@@glenwolfe8437 I dont recommend that way for a double pedal. I used to do that, but I had to tighten the slave spring significantly more, not just a bit. And when the beaters were even, the slave pedal didn't feel even at all when I hit it with my foot(I used my right foot to test both pedals for better feel). It actually felt more even when the beaters didn't swing in sync with each other during that test.
@@Ryan-qn1wr We will have to agree to disagree here Ryan. The method I use can stop the OCD madness and get drummers back to drumming. I'm sure there are a lot of factors that goes into the tension of the slave pedal and it having the same feel as the right pedal. How long your cross bar is set for example I believe affects it. The fact is with the linkage the left pedal will never feel the same fully as the right pedal. And yes, the left pedal spring will have to be tighter than the right because there is more mass to move. Bottom line I believe the action is very similar. I can't notice a difference when I play and my play is even and precise with these settings. I'm using the newer design iron cobra powerglides btw
What do you mean by you don't want to have a two step stroke? I feel like this might be my problem, I keep getting stuck when trying to do a basic triplet
If you have to move twice to play when you could just move once, that’s a waste of time and energy. For example if you have to swing back before you go forward, that’s less efficient than just going forward from where you already are, i.e. if you haven’t rebounded back enough on the previous stroke.
@@RyanAlexanderBloom gotcha, thank you sir!
What are your thoughts about replacing factory springs with like ace hardware springs, which is what I do? DO you recommend this or not?
Matthew Miller I never tried that but in theory if you’d like a different spring tension range than you’re currently getting then changing it out should be fine. I don’t see a problem with the idea.
@@RyanAlexanderBloom Unlike you, I actually play SUPER tight (I mostly play metal), and the springs I get from ace are always shorter than the factory springs (sometimes up to only 60% the length the factory springs would be).
I play pretty much at the too tight setting you made in your video (if using factory springs, which rarely works out for me in the end) and even then, it can feel too loose for me, hence why I switch to replacing factory springs with ace hardware springs.
While it is a perfect feel for me, I do have problems with springs breaking (ace gets good business from me because of this!).
Any suggestions about how to mitigate this!?! I like super tight spring tension for feel but, especially with poorly designed pedals, springs I have replaced break often (more expensive pedals have this happening less often though).
Matthew Miller Sounds like you’re using shorter springs to get more tension when maybe what you want is thicker, tougher springs of the same or similar length to the original. If they’re breaking they aren’t the right part for your needs. Think you’re getting tension from overstretching rather than the springs being naturally stiffer. You might try buying specific pedals springs from a drum company but in a heavier or stiffer weight. I think I’ve seen them sold in different stiffnesses by someone, maybe Tama or Gibraltar? I can’t remember. But I think the length is your issue overall. You’re travel distance doesn’t change so your spring length, in theory, out to stay in a similar range. That’s my guess anyway.
Does spring tension and beater distance from the head conflict w/ eachother?
sam hyde fanbasee beater distance is important but I don’t think it affects spring tension much.
bigger beater angle makes the spring have to stretch more so YES A LOT
I just now realise my spring tension is way too tight
how do you know if it is medium loose tension
Justin Lam 2:36
Many younger drummers for what ever reason today want their tension at max or close to it. They always say the same thing that they play much faster with a tight spring tension. I have to tell you the OPPOSITE, because 1, you lose control dynamically, 2, you are essentially fighting the pedal 3, how fast you can go has more to do with what type of pedal you're using than tightening the spring at full tension. There are pedals that are just faster than others, and NO MATTER what you've heard, this is just a fact. Several pedals are speed demons, and they will by their very design, make you play faster, almost in the beginning of using these pedals you will question yourself as to why you need/like such a warp drive pedal. The other factor is making sure you know how to play slow once you setup a pedal the way you like it to be setup. After playing every conceivable pedal on the market over nearly 58 years I find a looser setting is best because you do not have to fight the pedal and your control is much easier to navigate. Again the pedal will make a difference, and I.M.O any of the high end pedals will get you the speed you're looking for. But REMEMBER, once you get your Ferrari working speed, you also need to play as slow as possible on these pedals, because playing slow will give you an understanding of dynamics, feel, and control. Also do not get any of the flat beaters on the market, I.M.O they are basically useless as compared to a beater with a round top. The Axis makes a beater that is fantastic it's called a wrecking ball beater, you can get your volume out of them both loud and low and they do not fall apart. Nice informative video BTW.
Deagledrumzz well I’ll agree with you that there are some pedals that make playing harder. That’s true. A pro level pedal is much preferable to a beginner pedal and it’s not just a price difference. They’re just much more solid and function better. No arguing that. I will argue that higher tension helps. If you’re fighting the pedal, that’s not really related to tension. Fighting is fighting and you just need to work out your timing and motion. If you’re working with the pedal and playing the right types of strokes, then you’re only actually fighting gravity, as that’s inescapable, and spring tension is simply there to help you on the rebound when you’re trying to lift up and overcome gravity. So more tension, to a reasonable point, helps you with gravity. It helps lift your foot back up. You can over do it and make the pedal unplayable, yes that’s true. Like I say in this video, some pedals will go all the way tight and still feel loose. The beginner level iron cobras are like this. Some pedals you can’t even play with the tension all the way up. It’s too tight to move. My mapex pedal is like that. Totally depends on the spring and the design of the pedal. But in relative terms having the pedal loose makes you do more work on the up stroke which is bad and the whole reason the pedal has a spring.
My comment referred to the spring at full tension,so i'll stand on what I said. I don't know what pedals you are using, but I can say that there are big differences in pedals. For example a DW 5000 is basically the standard type pedal in the industry, does everything well and is basically a design from the 40's when it came out as a Camco pedal. Now since this design is many years older so it also stand to reason that newer models have raised the bar considerably. Axis,Trick, Sleischman, Demons etc all have made drummers rethink what is possible.Buddy Rich used to take out his spring from his Luddy speed king and experiment on how to get control of the pedal having no tension what so ever. Seems impossible but anything was possible for him. The key I.M.O is however you're comfortable that is what will probably work better for you. 1 size does not fit for all.@@RyanAlexanderBloom
Deagledrumzz yeah I agree with you on most of what you’re saying. Full tension on most pedals is absurdly high and useless, especially lighter weight pedals where there doesn’t need to be as much tension because it’s moving less mass. So we aren’t arguing that at all. And if you watched part 1, you’ll remember I go through the potential uses for different spring tensions. There is a reason you might use all but the loosest and tightest tensions on most pedals and it’s not one size, it depends on the result you’re trying to get with the least amount of effort. It’s possible to do anything, but feathering the bass on a tight setting, that’s hard. Blasting out 16th at 220 on a sloppily loose setting, also hard. Priorities for each player or each gig are different. The newest pedals, your demons and axis, those give you an advantage in doing double strokes and extended techniques, but they’re not inherently better all around pedals. Hoglan still uses pre-DW Camcos. At least some of the time. Many people struggle to play on demon drives because they respond so much differently than a normal 5000 or iron cobra, which is to say that I do think pro pedals are better than beginner, but a 700 dollar pedal isn’t going to make you sound better than a 400 dollar one every time. It depends on what you’re going for. So I think we’re saying roughly the same thing but from a slightly different perspective.
I've played a DW5000 twin, and it's a fantastic pedal. Much better than the Pearl Eliminator I'm using now.
I ve been playing drums for less than 2 years now and started with heel down technique because it was very natural feeling.. But over time I ve realized most drummers go with heel up, especially for rock/metal and figured out I should give it a try.. So I ve been struggling with it for 2 months now but just can t get it right.. I can play most of the basic beats but when it comes to quick doubles and triplets I can t do it precisely.. It feels weird lifting up entire leg and just can t keep the foot in the same position on the footboard of the pedal. Any tips/advices?
dledinscak one tip is to make sure you aren’t flexing your quads at all. In any way. Nothing between the knee and hip has anything to do with bass drumming under most circumstances. Another tip is to watch my video on heel up technique and make sure you’re doing it right. One more tip is to make sure your throne height and distance from your pedals is correct. The wrong positioning can really negatively impact your ability to play. I’ve got videos on those too in my ergonomics playlist.
Thanks a lot for answering.. I will definitely work on those tips.. I have a really low end pedal so I wonder is there a lot of difference between cheap and expensive pedal in speed/playability?
dledinscak low end pedals are usually unstable. All their extra moving around and wiggling typically robs you of precision. Lots of times they also just don’t have the same response as a pro pedal. But it totally depends on the pedal. Some expensive pedals are terrible so price isn’t always the best way to evaluate your options.
This bass drum sounds horrible. For the best tone, Aquarian Super Kick 2 wide open, no pillow. My bass drum sounds huge with this head. With this setup, I can actually hear a plasticy sound like the head sounds before coming under tension. I came here because my iron cobra isn't fast enough for single bass work. Thank you for the discussion. I know this is an old post and you may have figured out how to get great tone.
Thomas Tucker this kick sounds amazing with a mic and pumped through a PA. It is headed, tuned, and muffled specifically for the sound I need on stage. This isn’t the pedal I normally use, but otherwise this setup is finely tuned. Now, this isn’t the same kick I use in the studio because that’s a different beast. Also you’re hearing camera audio from the batter side with the drum positioned against a wall (I don’t have a lot of space). So while that’s interesting that you think your tone is superior, this video sounds absolutely nothing like real life, and that isn’t the point. I’m talking about theoretical pedal settings, not showing off my drum audio engineering skills. Hopefully you can understand that no bass drum is going to sound anything like it’s real character under these circumstances, and that not every band’a sound is the same as yours. The needs of a kick sound change with the environment and the music.
@@RyanAlexanderBloom this wasn't intended to critique you video, sorry for my shitty language. I use the same setup for live and recording. I think, if my bass drum sounds superior, it would only be because the super kick 2 is an amazing drum head. The point I was trying to make was, I think even with audio consideration, an SK 2 would make your drum sound better. I thought is was possible you hadn't tried an SK2. Maybe you tried it? No offense intended towards your drum tone. Do you have anything recorded that I can hear your bass tone? Just curious. I do appreciate you taking the time to answer, thank you. Rock on dude!
Thomas Tucker yeah super kicks sound kind of thudding and dead to me. But I’ve only played them on other people’s kits. You can listen to either or both of the Bloodstrike albums for a sample of my studio kick sound. Which of course one album was a 22” pearl and the other is a 22” premier.
@@RyanAlexanderBloom My bass drum sounds just like yours for the most part, so I guess the way you get there doesn't matter. My bass is birch 22x24 and no muting. It sounds mic'd in a room it's so loud. It's the first time I could actually hear it through a mix in a live situation. I used to struggle to get the muting just right before, now running it wide open sounds brilliant. I also don't have anything mounted to the drum, which I think matters.
WHY ALL THIS VIDEOS ARE SO FING LONG