Two things! Firstly, sorry for the delay today in getting the podcast published. We had some technical difficulties. Secondly, we had to record this week's podcast earlier than usual, and so of course that means the biggest news of the week, Sigma and Tamron being allowed on Canon RF mount, didn't make the cut. Stay tuned for next week's episode to hear our thoughts!
I bought the x3 a year ago and really the only reason I don't use it more is the high memory bandwidth and the hassle of post editing. I realized recently that the better a stock output of a device is, the faster I feel the satisfaction of using it.
The Minolta CLE/Leica M mount situation comes to mind with regards to a manufacturer making a body with a competitors' lens mount. Minolta was making SR-mount cameras during that time.
No question, just a comment: for what it's worth, I love this podcast. It's my photography / videography news source, now. It's comfortable, entertaining and informative. I would Patreon this. If there's already a Patreon, I'm a silly goose and I missed it.
Early Fuji DSLRs used Nikon F mount and supported Nikon F lenses although they didn’t make any lenses of their own for Nikon F which would have been neat. I have some Fuji F mount DSLRs and they still work with modern Nikon F mount lenses first party and third party. Mostly. I think the electronic aperture ones don’t work but I don’t have any of those to test
I really don't understand why you are sitting at 187,000 subs. You should be flying past other creators in this genre at a good clip. Petapixel is my favorite now and the dynamics between the three of you is high on my list. Love the podcasts! And all the other fantastic shit!
A lot of us remember the petapixel who published an article where the author built his own simulation of sensor technologies with zero knowledge of how they worked and blasted … I want to say sigma foveon??? Cameras for the flaws his simulation found despite those flaws not being present in the real cameras … because his simulations weren’t real. Then doubled down over two or three more articles including one where he turned the in camera saturation and sharpness settings to max and zoomed in on a face from the corner of a particularly smeary lens that was, I kid you not, no more than 20 or 30 pixels high to prove that the cameras made skin look “waxy”. This was one example of the kind of garbage petapixel published regularly and the short term outrage boost has permanently damaged the brand in the minds of many.
@@PippetWhippet Obviously I am not tainted by those memories. I've been a big fan of Chris and Jordan for a few years, and I like how Jarron just strenghtens that dynamic. I enjoy very much, and I learn. To teach and delight. Do you think the present Petapixel has changed in a positive way?
The release news about the Insta360 X4 last week Monday caught me by surprise, and I got quickly interested due to the significantly upgraded specs. My initial feel of 8K translating to a real life usable 5.7K turned out to be on point, and that’s quite a bit more data to choose from than recording in 4K and having to crop into that. While I’m not about to use this camera for any of the presented action styles, I still see a lot of potential in recording 360 at high settings when entering vacation regions without knowing what’s about to happen, especially when wanting to travel light as with the next overseas trip. So just holding this thing up and deciding later on the perspective seems like a smart thing to do, especially since it’s waterproof. The other more regular use case scenario is something that was nowhere mentioned, whether in the manufacturer’s examples nor in your podcast, and that is putting this inconspicuous device center stage for recording live concerts. That way my son can record himself with his his band and then later choose the angle. I see a lot of potential here, especially while it is quasi no overhead for the band to capture these memories. Apparently the low light issues might dampen my excitement down the road, but here again I’ve set the specs to 5.7K/30fps with the expectation that the footage will be usable. And more importantly that the camera will last through a full set which I have tested: At room temperature, the Insta360 X4 easily went through 86 minutes of constant recording at this setting. Yes, it was quite warm, but it was still going, nowhere near shutting down on its own, battery was still going strong. That’s in stark contrast to the two GoPro Hero 8 I bought when they hit the market, and they have been nothing but a huge disappointment and big waste of money since they can’t handle more than 20 minutes of any setting at a time, completely useless for my needs. Will see how this holds up over time, but after two initial tries I’ve decided to keep this for the family, and that means something.
We could do a drinking game. Take a sip every time Jordan lifts himself off of his chair :) seriously though you guys put out the best podcasts and are great speakers!
Jordon you need to visit Vancouver next month…….when the crows are raising young, wear a black hat and wander around getting attacked by crows, it’s the only time of year people carry umbrellas, not for the rain…..
The Insta360 X4 specs top the GoPro Hero Max for 360 video; GoPro loyalists like me were disappointed that GoPro did not release the hotly--anticipated GoPro Hero Max 2 last fall. Will GoPro ever release it? Hope so.I still use my Hero Max, but, I've ordered the Insta360 X4 and can't wait to see for myself the differences.
Glad you covered Insta 360 X4 as I’ve just upgraded and waiting for new one to arrive, luckily for me I use outdoors and as a watersports action camera and the 360 is so much better to reframe in edits and was hoping you would say the the difference is noticeable, also worth pointing out the updated 60fps in 5.7k for smooth and slow motion footage compared to the max 30FPS with the X3. Enjoyed watching 🥳
How does 5.7k mode on X4 compare to X3 footage? Jordan kept saying that if you are shooting indoor, get X3 instead. Is that b/c X3 would be cheaper? Or is X3 has better indoor image quality compared to X4's 5.7k mode?
Jordan, always love your videos mate. Sadly, my camera is dodgy one and the video quality on the very best settings even in sunlight is atrocious, worse than my X3. After a month of automated responses or emails, I’ve concluded that even though I’ve sent them footage that clearly illustrates there’s an issue, the lack of progress or wanting to solve my problem after a month tells me to be wary of this company. If you add to that the issues around the encouraging of non-declaration of sponsorship, then I think you get my gist. keep the videos coming though, always enjoy your style and humour.
Question: I have a 3 week road trip across the US for my son's graduation in May. On a fantastical whim I bought a Sigma fpL and 24mm f/3.5. This is to be a travelogue camera for stills and short videos and/or cinemagraphs. It is to be my main camera for the trip as I plan to leave the heavy Pentax K1 behind. Did I make an unforgivable, harebrained mistake?
YES JORDAN! THE JVC LS300! My white whale! Because mine was broken and Its not possible to find because it was so popular they sold out and ceased production, but it did use a competitors lens mount m43 on a super 35 sensor. But panasonic is technically an alligned company and m43 is technically a open mount. But. JVC LS300 I love that camera!
I saw that smallrig tripod in a framevoyager NAB video from last year and that would be amazing for a documentary, touring podcast setup, or in my case, a mobile church setup.
Hello Former Albertan living in Victoria BC . Enjoyed the comments on the Insta 360x4 an 3 . Recently gone sailing and the vidio i could get from that . Water proof ,,like shooting windstorms out here . Looks like a go get her for me .
For the X4 I would definitely like to see dynamic range comparisons and limitations in 8K. As you know, it uses the same 1/2" 48MP sensor as the X3, so Insta360's Active HDR mode cannot be used in 8K mode on the X4 since 8K shooting means you cannot break the sensor into two logical sensors and run two separate simultaneous exposures on the 48MP sensor for real-time Active HDR, while in 5.7k you can. So shooting at 8K means you necessarily take a dynamic range hit compared to 5.7K Active HDR, but by how much?
I am pretty sure that Fujifilm's earliest digital cameras when they debuted had the Nikon F-mount. I believe they leased the mount while they were figuring out their own lens lineup.
I'm curious about the manual settings and image quality for stills on the Insta 4x. Many architectural and VFX peeps are using the Ricoh's Theta Z1 with the 1" sensor which costs twice as much.
Input on the Shure mic! Sounds OK, but it seems to lack warmth and natural tone, like Jordan’s or the NT USB+ have. After a lot of testing, the latter really makes the listener think they’re there in the room with you, with great bass. It’d be great to see y’all test multiple mics during one of these episodes!
I know you do video, but what about the photo quality of the x4? I bought it because of reviews but was disappointed so returned it and stay with my x3.
Fuji made 1934 of the limited edition X100 VI, which is 28 less than Leica’s D-Lux 7 Bond 007 limited edition. I have one of those and one of 250 Q2 007 limited edition cameras made for the whole world. I’ll wait for an 007 edition X100 before purchasing one.
Chris promised he’d send me one of the A7R V’s Sony gives him for free for being their shill if I said I’d protest any future episodes without him… wait, ignore the first part of that.
I’m still annoyed I didn’t preorder right away since I was awake for the X100VI… waited until Feb 21st… the store I bought from mentioned black models from the 26th had been sent out… maybe one day
When I was a kid I loved video games, and radios or cassette players / recorders. That and space / planes / air traffic controlling. I was a very strange kid. I would speed read dozens of books. Which I cant anymore. Then video cameras came into my life in 3rd grade and that was it. From then on. Cameras!
I own an X1 and an X2 and use them both because there are optimal conditions and use cases for both. I did not upgrade to an X3 because at the time the consensus was the quality was not that big of an improvement between the X2 and X3. Is this considered minimal improvement from X3 to X4 and is it worth the upgrade from X2?
I have owed the X2 and the X3 is much better in so many ways, X2 screen sucks and is clunky and tiny, x3 screen is a huge improvement, the X4 is going to be better in that you have 5.7k 60FPS for smoother video and slow motion improvements, and longer battery life in 5.7k . 8K is more like 2k realistically once you have reframed it as 8k is both lens combined. Just hope the weight and extra size on the X4 is not an issue for using in fast moving action. The X3 new and used prices are now good value 🥳🥳
I did all my NAB coverage (21 videos) using the X3 and would really have liked the 8K - there was "kinda" enough light, but I think if Insta could just provide more data and have less macroblocking of the image with heavy compression, that'd help a lot too. ua-cam.com/play/PLWTQ43Vw9kBXlm_SHc3IKoxV6eMjVDD8e.html
Insta360 X4 8K still is a bit disappointment... basically the same sensor with more pixels, which is just marketing fluff (and some more sharpness in perfect lighting). In the northern part of Europe, there are darker times for most of the year (8-9 months). In the forest or during winter, this "update" is basically useless... We could only use this in the outdoor and summer. To this end, I would prefer at least the DJI Osmo Pocket 3 or a small mirrorless camera to achieve at least somewhat better results. If I ever buy a 360 camera, I might opt for one with a 1" sensor, if new versions are released someday, It is good to have options out there, I would like to pay more to get better results. To be honest if you want to have good action camera get one that has 60fps.. This X4 has only 30fps at max resolution.
I completely disagree with this statement. Better battery life and noticeably sharper resolution and better low-light performance- upgrading is a no brainer.
Two things! Firstly, sorry for the delay today in getting the podcast published. We had some technical difficulties. Secondly, we had to record this week's podcast earlier than usual, and so of course that means the biggest news of the week, Sigma and Tamron being allowed on Canon RF mount, didn't make the cut. Stay tuned for next week's episode to hear our thoughts!
Topic starts @31:39
Thank you!
Thank you
I bought the x3 a year ago and really the only reason I don't use it more is the high memory bandwidth and the hassle of post editing. I realized recently that the better a stock output of a device is, the faster I feel the satisfaction of using it.
The Minolta CLE/Leica M mount situation comes to mind with regards to a manufacturer making a body with a competitors' lens mount. Minolta was making SR-mount cameras during that time.
Would the Fujifilm/ Hasselblad XPan/ TX1 also count? I think the lenses were made by Fujifilm
@@Abc1987 hasselblad is another one, because they made rebadged Sony A-mount SLRs in the early aughts
No question, just a comment: for what it's worth, I love this podcast. It's my photography / videography news source, now. It's comfortable, entertaining and informative. I would Patreon this. If there's already a Patreon, I'm a silly goose and I missed it.
I really was interested in what the fish would say about the Insta360. It has very similar eyes 🐟
Nice of you to let the others get a word in this week Chris😂
It was easy. I was distracted with fishing!
@@niccollsvideo Haha. Next podcast please provide proof that you actually caught something. It has to be fish by the way😄
Early Fuji DSLRs used Nikon F mount and supported Nikon F lenses although they didn’t make any lenses of their own for Nikon F which would have been neat. I have some Fuji F mount DSLRs and they still work with modern Nikon F mount lenses first party and third party. Mostly. I think the electronic aperture ones don’t work but I don’t have any of those to test
I forgot to say that lasagne-off was epic! Please make more videos like that :)
I really don't understand why you are sitting at 187,000 subs. You should be flying past other creators in this genre at a good clip. Petapixel is my favorite now and the dynamics between the three of you is high on my list. Love the podcasts! And all the other fantastic shit!
A lot of us remember the petapixel who published an article where the author built his own simulation of sensor technologies with zero knowledge of how they worked and blasted … I want to say sigma foveon??? Cameras for the flaws his simulation found despite those flaws not being present in the real cameras … because his simulations weren’t real. Then doubled down over two or three more articles including one where he turned the in camera saturation and sharpness settings to max and zoomed in on a face from the corner of a particularly smeary lens that was, I kid you not, no more than 20 or 30 pixels high to prove that the cameras made skin look “waxy”.
This was one example of the kind of garbage petapixel published regularly and the short term outrage boost has permanently damaged the brand in the minds of many.
@@PippetWhippet Obviously I am not tainted by those memories. I've been a big fan of Chris and Jordan for a few years, and I like how Jarron just strenghtens that dynamic. I enjoy very much, and I learn. To teach and delight. Do you think the present Petapixel has changed in a positive way?
What about the 5.7k+ on the X4? If it's higher bitrate, it could allow for more cropping compared to the X3 5.7k!?
“Thinky thoughts” .. love it
Fish Niccolls, my favorite UA-camr!
The release news about the Insta360 X4 last week Monday caught me by surprise, and I got quickly interested due to the significantly upgraded specs. My initial feel of 8K translating to a real life usable 5.7K turned out to be on point, and that’s quite a bit more data to choose from than recording in 4K and having to crop into that.
While I’m not about to use this camera for any of the presented action styles, I still see a lot of potential in recording 360 at high settings when entering vacation regions without knowing what’s about to happen, especially when wanting to travel light as with the next overseas trip. So just holding this thing up and deciding later on the perspective seems like a smart thing to do, especially since it’s waterproof.
The other more regular use case scenario is something that was nowhere mentioned, whether in the manufacturer’s examples nor in your podcast, and that is putting this inconspicuous device center stage for recording live concerts. That way my son can record himself with his his band and then later choose the angle. I see a lot of potential here, especially while it is quasi no overhead for the band to capture these memories. Apparently the low light issues might dampen my excitement down the road, but here again I’ve set the specs to 5.7K/30fps with the expectation that the footage will be usable. And more importantly that the camera will last through a full set which I have tested: At room temperature, the Insta360 X4 easily went through 86 minutes of constant recording at this setting. Yes, it was quite warm, but it was still going, nowhere near shutting down on its own, battery was still going strong. That’s in stark contrast to the two GoPro Hero 8 I bought when they hit the market, and they have been nothing but a huge disappointment and big waste of money since they can’t handle more than 20 minutes of any setting at a time, completely useless for my needs.
Will see how this holds up over time, but after two initial tries I’ve decided to keep this for the family, and that means something.
Nice try comparing to old tech. Try comparing to x1.
Great podcast! You guys held the floor well. That being said, nothing beats the three amigos! I look forward to next week’s show.
We could do a drinking game. Take a sip every time Jordan lifts himself off of his chair :) seriously though you guys put out the best podcasts and are great speakers!
Jordon you need to visit Vancouver next month…….when the crows are raising young, wear a black hat and wander around getting attacked by crows, it’s the only time of year people carry umbrellas, not for the rain…..
Thanks Jordan! I have an X3 and record indoors, and your review is very helpful 👍
Thanks for the answer guys! And fyi, I'm traveling to Indonesia, so it's definitely family and landscapes 😀 hopefully of volcanoes and lakes!
The Insta360 X4 specs top the GoPro Hero Max for 360 video; GoPro loyalists like me were disappointed that GoPro did not release the hotly--anticipated GoPro Hero Max 2 last fall. Will GoPro ever release it? Hope so.I still use my Hero Max, but, I've ordered the Insta360 X4 and can't wait to see for myself the differences.
Of course they do; it's about 6 years younger!
Glad you covered Insta 360 X4 as I’ve just upgraded and waiting for new one to arrive, luckily for me I use outdoors and as a watersports action camera and the 360 is so much better to reframe in edits and was hoping you would say the the difference is noticeable, also worth pointing out the updated 60fps in 5.7k for smooth and slow motion footage compared to the max 30FPS with the X3. Enjoyed watching 🥳
i was expecting a video on the x4 8k
Yeah and not a podcast.... which I like very much
That's lovely fish Chris! Grayling?
Yes a very nice Arctic Grayling caught almost in the Arctic. It took a dry fly too so it was an excellent memory overall!
How does 5.7k mode on X4 compare to X3 footage? Jordan kept saying that if you are shooting indoor, get X3 instead. Is that b/c X3 would be cheaper? Or is X3 has better indoor image quality compared to X4's 5.7k mode?
Jordan, always love your videos mate. Sadly, my camera is dodgy one and the video quality on the very best settings even in sunlight is atrocious, worse than my X3. After a month of automated responses or emails, I’ve concluded that even though I’ve sent them footage that clearly illustrates there’s an issue, the lack of progress or wanting to solve my problem after a month tells me to be wary of this company. If you add to that the issues around the encouraging of non-declaration of sponsorship, then I think you get my gist. keep the videos coming though, always enjoy your style and humour.
Question: I have a 3 week road trip across the US for my son's graduation in May. On a fantastical whim I bought a Sigma fpL and 24mm f/3.5. This is to be a travelogue camera for stills and short videos and/or cinemagraphs. It is to be my main camera for the trip as I plan to leave the heavy Pentax K1 behind. Did I make an unforgivable, harebrained mistake?
Odd request but can we have an episode on scammera a (including the new yucky worse than a phone camera yashica thing)
I would have preferred the Chris&Fish picture been shot on 35mm😆
YES JORDAN! THE JVC LS300! My white whale! Because mine was broken and Its not possible to find because it was so popular they sold out and ceased production, but it did use a competitors lens mount m43 on a super 35 sensor. But panasonic is technically an alligned company and m43 is technically a open mount. But. JVC LS300 I love that camera!
I saw that smallrig tripod in a framevoyager NAB video from last year and that would be amazing for a documentary, touring podcast setup, or in my case, a mobile church setup.
Interestin about the auto leveling tripod, but I think Benro Theta was the first one with that idea?
Hello Former Albertan living in Victoria BC . Enjoyed the comments on the Insta 360x4 an 3 . Recently gone sailing and the vidio i could get from that . Water proof ,,like shooting windstorms out here . Looks like a go get her for me .
When you do your support system shootout: Please consider including the self-levelling Edelkrone tripod and the new Sirui Rapid one-step Monopod.
I took a whack at the x3 last year. I like 360 video, as a concept. But I just can't work it into my real content easily. Best wishes to the X4.
Fujifilm X-Mount has a first-party Leica M-Mount adapter that has a custom button to change your manual shooting settings to match the lens
For the X4 I would definitely like to see dynamic range comparisons and limitations in 8K.
As you know, it uses the same 1/2" 48MP sensor as the X3, so Insta360's Active HDR mode cannot be used in 8K mode on the X4 since 8K shooting means you cannot break the sensor into two logical sensors and run two separate simultaneous exposures on the 48MP sensor for real-time Active HDR, while in 5.7k you can.
So shooting at 8K means you necessarily take a dynamic range hit compared to 5.7K Active HDR, but by how much?
I am pretty sure that Fujifilm's earliest digital cameras when they debuted had the Nikon F-mount. I believe they leased the mount while they were figuring out their own lens lineup.
The picture of Chris with the fish and wearing a cap. We can't see his perfectly sculpted hair. 😰 ... 😝
Rental Dan saying Hi!
I'm curious about the manual settings and image quality for stills on the Insta 4x. Many architectural and VFX peeps are using the Ricoh's Theta Z1 with the 1" sensor which costs twice as much.
My work day felt empty without my 3 PP's
Afraid we only had 2 this week!
Input on the Shure mic! Sounds OK, but it seems to lack warmth and natural tone, like Jordan’s or the NT USB+ have. After a lot of testing, the latter really makes the listener think they’re there in the room with you, with great bass. It’d be great to see y’all test multiple mics during one of these episodes!
Thanks for the input!
Great podcast as usual. Any chance a full x100vi review in the works? I know it’s clickbaity at the moment, but we’ll give you a pass this time 😂
Editing right now!
Was rewatching the video again and realized that you guys mentioned that you have a video coming out soon. Doh! Either way, glad it’s happening!
Funny!! Having fun with the X4 underwater (with housing).
Civil War: I found the LoCA very distracting. Do you think it was intentional or a compromise to get the bokeh they wanted?
I know you do video, but what about the photo quality of the x4? I bought it because of reviews but was disappointed so returned it and stay with my x3.
Fuji made 1934 of the limited edition X100 VI, which is 28 less than Leica’s D-Lux 7 Bond 007 limited edition. I have one of those and one of 250 Q2 007 limited edition cameras made for the whole world. I’ll wait for an 007 edition X100 before purchasing one.
Chris promised he’d send me one of the A7R V’s Sony gives him for free for being their shill if I said I’d protest any future episodes without him… wait, ignore the first part of that.
I’m still annoyed I didn’t preorder right away since I was awake for the X100VI… waited until Feb 21st… the store I bought from mentioned black models from the 26th had been sent out… maybe one day
I’m going to Australia next week. I’ve been seeing x100vis in stock periodically on Australian camera shop websites.
Unsure if it's just me, but the 360 distortion made the Canada flag at 40:23 look huge.
Or that is one mighty big flag!
It's a big ol' flag there.
Fish Niccolls?
A Grayling should be left in the water to show off that dorsal fin colors.
Looks fine as is. Can't pose with it in the water. Was your point that it shouldn't be fished?
I certainly got some video under the water and you can see a brilliant dorsal.
Yippi! Maastricht tuning in.
35:12 But what about the new 5,7K+?
The mic sounds good. Jordan maybe sounded better but marginally
When I was a kid I loved video games, and radios or cassette players / recorders. That and space / planes / air traffic controlling.
I was a very strange kid. I would speed read dozens of books. Which I cant anymore. Then video cameras came into my life in 3rd grade and that was it. From then on. Cameras!
I'm not sure if it is a new form of punctuation, but the guy on the left appends 'as well' onto the end of every second sentance???
I own an X1 and an X2 and use them both because there are optimal conditions and use cases for both. I did not upgrade to an X3 because at the time the consensus was the quality was not that big of an improvement between the X2 and X3. Is this considered minimal improvement from X3 to X4 and is it worth the upgrade from X2?
I have owed the X2 and the X3 is much better in so many ways, X2 screen sucks and is clunky and tiny, x3 screen is a huge improvement, the X4 is going to be better in that you have 5.7k 60FPS for smoother video and slow motion improvements, and longer battery life in 5.7k . 8K is more like 2k realistically once you have reframed it as 8k is both lens combined. Just hope the weight and extra size on the X4 is not an issue for using in fast moving action. The X3 new and used prices are now good value 🥳🥳
Do you need to be in the press or in the industry to attend the NAB convention, or can anyone attend?
Anyone can attend
would love to see a comparison between the YC Onion and iFootage Cobra strike 3 monopods, seem similar but hard to see a difference
Did you get the letter from Insta360 telling you not to mention sponsorship?
We did not, this just came as a review sample.
This is not the same sensor as the S35 12K. Sounds like you didn’t do your research on the BM 12K since it’s a much larger sensor, but we’ll see.
Yeah the whole segment on the BMD cameras seemed weirdly negative and dismissive. And to not even know that 12k is using a new sensor is weird.
I did all my NAB coverage (21 videos) using the X3 and would really have liked the 8K - there was "kinda" enough light, but I think if Insta could just provide more data and have less macroblocking of the image with heavy compression, that'd help a lot too. ua-cam.com/play/PLWTQ43Vw9kBXlm_SHc3IKoxV6eMjVDD8e.html
Insta360 X4 8K still is a bit disappointment... basically the same sensor with more pixels, which is just marketing fluff (and some more sharpness in perfect lighting). In the northern part of Europe, there are darker times for most of the year (8-9 months). In the forest or during winter, this "update" is basically useless... We could only use this in the outdoor and summer. To this end, I would prefer at least the DJI Osmo Pocket 3 or a small mirrorless camera to achieve at least somewhat better results. If I ever buy a 360 camera, I might opt for one with a 1" sensor, if new versions are released someday, It is good to have options out there, I would like to pay more to get better results. To be honest if you want to have good action camera get one that has 60fps.. This X4 has only 30fps at max resolution.
You guys should just ditch the intro. If you don't drop it within the first minute it might as well just be an annoying commercial. :)
Wow... good luck to you dissing crows.
First … ❤
A Little More Watchable WO CN
Don't "Come BACK soon"
Maybe I’m just tired after a week of steelheading and hanging out it with surly dudes, but how about you don’t come back.
How About No. -Dr.Evil
the insta X4 is the most useless upgrade ever, if you have the x3 do not upgrade.
I completely disagree with this statement. Better battery life and noticeably sharper resolution and better low-light performance- upgrading is a no brainer.
@@stuartfishkin6550 i completely agree with the last sentence "upgrading is a no brain"