Another LUFTHANSA DISASTER? Is "EuroBusiness" Class worth it?
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
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This is a comprehensive Flight Review of Lufthansa.
Class: Business
Route: Ponta Delgada (PDL) to Frankfurt (FRA)
Plane: Airbus A320neo
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Sorry Josh. Your screenshot clearly shows "Lounge access (where available)". That "where available" is their "get out of jail free card" here. Yes, they should be giving vouchers to J Class but they won't as they've pushed the responsibility back on you to check whether there are lounges at the airport you're from which you're departing to determine whether J is the right price from that departure point.
(Edit) I've seen this for so many J Class fares with most providers around the world. It's most often used where the carrier isn't flying to an airport where they have a company lounge. This gives them the extra out if their contract lounge provider refuses access due to capacity.
I generally agree with the Lounge Access thing. However it DID say "Lounge (where available)" in the screenshot you showed.
But how do you know if a lounge is available prior to check in?
@@philstanton231just search for the airport before you book your ticket and look if there is any lounge at the airport available. All airports have their webpage - there you can find all informations on whether there is a lounge or not
@@philstanton231especially - at the airport from where he flew, there is NO lounge at all. So if he googled before booking a flight, he would know that it makes no sense to book business class from Ponta Delgada airport.
The point he is making, LH shouldn't price an inclusion for something LH know they won't need to be providing. Regardless if the customer knew or googled or not
Aaaaahhh, THAT explains it.
If you are sold and paid for lounge access they are on the hook for it. If there isn't a Lufthansa lounge they should establish reciprocal arrangements.
At MAD it is the Salle Porte D'Alcalla, I wonder if something changed. I flew LH in Europe in 2022 between Lisbon and Madrid.
😂 dream on!
it says lounge acces (where available) so not really something you can complain about
@@M1ster.mess. ( where available ) is merely deceptive marketing, in Europe you will be taken to court
I'm sure it says where available.. and suspect Josh specifically looked for a port where not issued.
Is the flight €15 cheaper. Who knows.
I used to be a most loyal Lufthansa customer, a 3-star Senator. Unfortunately LH elected to no longer service most routes in Europe and passed them to affiliates. Service is usually below average while prices are higher. These days I avoid LH when possible.
Me too. Avoid them always.
If you book a trip on a European airline in business class in a short or medium haul flight you gotta expect a Eurobusiness class. Same goes for British Airways, KLM Air France or SAS. Most people flying in Business class have onward flights on widebodies and just get treated a little bit better on their short connecting flight. That’s like booking first class in the US and expecting lounge access and champagne. Business class in Europe is more of a premium economy with included food, more legroom, a blocked middle seat and (usually) lounge access. Those airlines that offer a “real” C have other markets. SATA uses their planes for long flights to the US and Canada. TAP also sometimes offers a real business class in their A21Ns, but those planes primarily fly low demand routes to South America. Turkish Airlines also offers an actual C, but they compete in the middle eastern market on flights between Europe and Asia/Africa with Qatar, Emirates and Etihad, so they have to adopt to their rivals. If you choose to pay triple the price for a flight in C with a European airline without a connecting flight, it’s kind of your fault as you especially as a regular traveler should be well aware of what you get.
Or you just use AVIOS and check which BA one world partner flies to and from your destination, for a fraction of the price. Anyone who pays cash for any European Business Class flights needs their heads testing.
The Eurobusiness seats dont usually have extra leg room as they are standard economy seats. Because companies like LH and BA always block out the first row for their highest frequent flier status passengers, I am limited as to when I can fly with them at 200cm tall, rows other than row 1 dont work for me as my legs dont fit. The way around it is when the plane doesnt have a row 1 on the right hand side of the aircraft and the computer system will allow me to book row 2, but it is a bulkhead seat.
more legroom? bullshit
@@nibzee As a fellow "tall" person, i understand your dilemma. My Eurobusiness choice is because i can sit at an angle after take off and extend my long undercarriage under the empty center seat.
One of the things I love about Air Canada is the extra leg room in their North America "J" class and the wider seats in their 2-2 configuration in their narrow bodied aircraft they use for their short haul flights.
@@southtown1905 Quite often the first rows of the economy section used for business do have more legroom.
You changed the MUSIC! Thank you for taking my advice. This sounds so much more relaxing, and a lot more professional! Also love the sunglasses.
Concurr... very nice background music on this one Josh.
Well it does say on the ticket lounge access where available so it does say you might not get lounge access
In fairness like most say it denotes "where available" so it probably would then come down to if ticket cost calculations included lounge for this flight. Don't recall if you did a US domestic series but I'm pretty sure if you did or do you'd change your tone on Euro business.
It says when you book the ticket"lounge access were availible". So its a bingo if you are lucky or not
Exactly. As long as it says "where available", then Lufthansa does not have to give you anything in compensation for this
"were available" makes no sense.
I understand Where Available to mean if there’s a lounge or not. Not to mean, if they decide to give you access or not!
@@Fitzrovialitter why?
@@Fitzrovialitter
Of course it makes sense! If there is a lounge, you are given access, if there is no lounge, they obviously can't give you access.
I would say a voucher is a reasonable alternative. During Covid, at least on KLM, they provided me a voucher at the check-in counter of smaller airports in which the lounge hadn't been reopened
Usually it does not make any sense to book Lufthansa in Europe in business class but sometimes the fare is about the same as in the economy. Then you get fast track and lounge access (if available). In plane it is quite disappointing and last time the food smelled like it was spoiled.But I think in general business class in the European Union isn't so great...
We just booked it FRA-LHR for my girlfriend because it was CHEAPER by nearly half than economy. Must have been a pricing glitch. Will be interesting to see what she thinks.
I flew on a Lufthansa A321neo from Frankfurt to Cairo, a flight that's over 3 hours. Like this flight they didn't have WiFi or any streaming service. It's part of their now well-known cost cutting. For an airline that wants to be seen as premium, they're becoming less and less premium.
Unfortunately wifi is currently not available on Lufthansa’s newest short haul aircraft (e.g. A320neo, A321neo)… nevertheless most other planes in their short haul fleet actually do have wifi. I don’t know why they don’t install it in the newest aircraft rn. Hopefully they will be equipped with it in the near future.
Well, concerning the lounges, SAS is the same when flying from Helsinki: lounge (where available), but they don't have any contract with either the Finnair or the Aspire (while LH actually does offer access to Aspire in business). I assume, the 'where available' line doesn't make them liable for anything.
It used to be the same with Aer Lingus. I'd occasionally get booked on the Cork Birmingham business class when the standard was booked out and guess what the only difference was a curtain between those that had been fleeced and those that hadn't
LH had first class on B737s with fixed 2-2 seating and A300-600s with bigger seats... back in the late 1980s and it was often empty... so that was 30!+ years ago!!
Perhaps introduce 3 rows of fixed first class? (!),I was a regular on the London -Fra and onwards then..
I totally agree with you regarding the issue of handing out food vouchers where there is no available lounge access - I personally think that this would never happen ? Well from Lufthansa definitely not.
Not from any airline
I regularly fly Swiss from Zurich ZRH go
Lamezia SUF, outgoing i book Business as i get a Lounge Access and a more hassle free checking, but my return flight is always Eco, as in SUF there’s no Lounge and not a Voucher for any Restaurant and the checking is done by the same two desk and the
Only benefit is, you can skip a part of the Line. I maybe would consider to buy Business both ways if they were offering a Restaurant voucher
Where did you hide the broccoli?
In contrast to intercontinental flights, where the seat is the main advantage, in domestic euro flights, you pay for the add-ons. Which are lounge, priority security and check-in. Plus inflight food. Seat is the same, so no advantage. If something is missing, you should be eligible for some kind of compensation. As easy as that.
Legroom is not the same as in Economy. The first rows have more legroom than the aft cabin. If business class is very small though, the first rows in economy will have more legroom than the standard economy class seat. On the 320 this refers to the first 12 rows, if I remember correctly.
Why Latehansa when in the end it was an „on-time-departure“?
Cuz it's the airlines nickname :)
I call them Lufthamster!
A one-hour flight in China would give complimentary hot meal selection even in Economy class and lie-flat seat in business class.
Nope flew Shanghai - Zhangjiajie - Xi'an-Beijing on china eastern 2 month ago. Nice seat but no lie flat and on Zhangjiajie-Xi'an nothing at all. Not even snacks.
From Lufthansa's perspective, I suppose same seat/pitch for all seats allows more flexibility - but US carriers determined profitability and customer satisfaction are both better with larger 2-2 seat configuration, more pitch, and higher price point for Business Class. Not sure why European carriers see it differently?
I flew SWISS, Austrian, and Brussels last summer. I recall the “floating curtain” on Brussels separating 1st Class and economy with nothing particularly special. I flew 1st Class with Austrian and then economy with Austrian and SWISS. Meal was ok, chocolates were great.
It happens with other airlines as well. If you fly BA out of split, for instance, the only lounge is accessible to Star Alliance passengers only. Lounge access (where available) is the way of life in Europe. In the US a domestic flight in first class does not allow you lounge access (except Alaska, I think)
Hate it, business class flyer until several mishaps and rude staff (regular even before). I spend all my air miles for the kids and never booked them again.
It did say "Lounge (where available)" and we all have no clue how the margin calculation is. Maybe the price would be higher if a lounge would be available since they would price it in? Indeed to offer a voucher for food at the restaurants would be also a good idea, but is there an airline doing this?
Same happened to me! Business class with Aegean from Crete to Frankfurt. The airport was insanely overfilled and boiling hot, went to the lounge and was informed, that Aegean is not participating and has no lounge at Crete airport! I felt scammed!
My experience with Lufthansa Business within Europe has been great, the food was always outstanding!
Also to be fair: these Business Class tickets are usually not that expensive. My Aegean flight e.g. wasn't even double the Economy fair! Outside of Europe you mostly pay 3-4 x the price of Economy
I fly United to Costa Rica. I fly business/first. In Newark, their hub, there is a lounge and I get full access. In Costa Rica, they don't have their own lounge but there is a priority lounge, which does not have an agreement with United . I pay to get in, but my ticket as well comes with lounge access. The problem is, there is no lounge. I agree with you about the voucher. That is the least they can do.
The price is high but lounge access is most probably not included as there is no lounge at the airport. Yeah, the business class product kind of sucks except for the meal and the crew. But still much better than economy which is more or less comparable to Ryanair.
We flew twice with lufthansa business class from England, Manchester to Singapore during covid , once via Munich then second time Frankfurt , on both occasions we got to experienced the disorderly and disorganised checking in and boarding processes, from the airport staff to the cabin crew. Getting on the transfer bus to the plane , first on last off, what a joke, on one of these flights the cabin crew we had were not very attentive or even approachable , some barely smiled at all, on this one occasion i made a mistake of dropping my phone down the side of the chair and had to call/buzz one of them , well i think it was too much for this particular woman, tut tut sound came out and a stern stare of disbelief , no smiles, no how can i be of service, i got off my chair quick , she delved straight in and got the phone out after a few minutes and handed it to me and then walked away without saying anything as in disgust , these things happen all the time don’t they? Where and how do they train their cabin crew , the military?
We won’t fly Lufthansa again after the second time , we’ve learnt our lesson. "Vorsprung durch Technik" it is not people , far far from it . We now fly Swissair , definitely 110% better, greeting , service, approach.
I dare say Asian and middle Eastern Airlines have got that edge on cabin crew training and technique over European Airlines.
Anyway if you got options , Don’t bother with Lufthansa, pick anybody but them.
No its NOT WORTH IT.
What does „Vorsprung durch Technik“ have to do with Lufthansa? So you now fly Swiss with pretty much the same product like LH since both are part of LH Group?
In my experience Swiss and LH flights are more or less the same from a product and customer service point of view.
loose meaning not translation, “excellence through engineering”, most people would not know or aware of that and only probably perceive it as anything or a brand thats german or from germany must be of a good or excellent standard, which lufthansa isn’t. Difference between the two , Swissair give out complementary chocolates and the business class lounge is better in zurich, also with our experience the Swissair crew have always had better manners. Ultimately of all our experiences in business class JAL. Japan airlines is the best.
I was just wondering because „Vorsprung durch Technik“ has been Audi‘s slogan for decades so I would connect that to this company rather than Germany in general.
I flew Swiss and LH economy yesterday and in both cases on board service included a small bottle of water and a chocolate, crew was similar in both flights. I‘ve had nice and rude crews with both airlines so I think it is difficult to generalize.
Swiss lounges at ZRH are much smaller compared to LH‘s lounges at FRA or MUC. Yesterday there was no seating available at all in Swiss Business Lounge, while at FRA the lounge experience was just fine. However, in my opinion food is better in Swiss lounges.
So remembering "back in the day"....Pan Am was the first to establish a true "business class" called Clipper Class, that was in 1977 if I'm not mistaken. Of course it caught on, and then other carriers made pitifully minimal efforts to offer a business class, such as AF's "Classe affairs"....which was just Ycl seats with the center seats blocked. (I'm talking on intercontinental flights.) Many other international airlines did the same. It was a joke, but finally as the years progressed the other airlines got the idea.
They should provide you with a meal coupon at any outlet at the airport.😮
A review made by a German on a German airline, it must be very fair! 🙂 Always had big respect for anything related to Germany, but I have to say that, limited to my experience with Lufthansa, they are ALWAYS late and not so great. Living on the west coast, I'd rather use United (with an additional stop) to go to Europe instead to use the direct connection with Lufthansa. Also flew in Lufthansa business a couple of times, not really so great (Polaris is much, much better).
Last but not least, even with Start Alliance Gold status, we always have troubles to access the lounges in either Frankfurt or Munich. Most of the times, people at the reception have simply no clue of whom can access.
Agree with you on fairness, but that is Josh's trademark. Josh tells it like it is and he never accepts "gifts" that could "sway" his reviews. As for United, have had good international experiences with them. As a "Gold" I have not experienced any problems with getting into the LH lounge at Frankfurt. But you do have to go to the right lounge as they separate lounges for people with very high "status".
Did you know a lot of ppl from the USA are now coming up to Canada to fly Air Canada for their trans oceanic legs? Better food even in Economy. and NO i do not work for AC.
@@CumulusGranitis You are so right about Air Canada, it is now our preferred airline. Flew in business once with them, what a great experience! Lounge was also excellence, with waiters serving tables and no tips expected.
@@pegasus3611 Yes, Air Canada's International Signature Class service (Business-First) is very impressive. Where you dined, the Signature Class dining room, is only for passengers who have Purchased actual Business Class tickets (not Up grades) on an inter continental flight.
It appeals to the Business traveller in that they can have a nice 4 star service meal before take off and then hop on the plane and go to sleep.
This smart move enables the Business traveller to arrive in Europe, Asia or Australia with a good nights sleep, ready to go to work.
Even in Economy the food in flight is very good. In Premium Economy the food is even better.
The amenities and food and beverages in their Maple Leaf lounges, is available to Gold (Star Alliance) level frequent flyers, on any class of ticket, is impressive.
And NO I do not work for AC.
🎉🎉🎉 *HAPPY BIRTHDAY JOSH!!!* 🎉🎉🎉
Wherever you are in the world on Monday...
Definitely they should provide vouchers. And in my opinion it should be more like 50 EUR. At airport prices it is a meal and couple of drinks. It should be the minimum.
In your place I would send complaint asking for compensation (cash or miles). If they refuse I would challenge the card transaction via the bank. Promised service was not delivered so there is a huge chance to get some money back (even all if Lufthansa does not answer request).
a good lounge costs 50-100$, not 20. Just another airline being greedy as fuck
There was no promised service. The website clearly states "when available". End of discussion.
@@C2K777 who cares? that argument is "you didnt read the microscopic fine print" this is not something a premium cost airline should be pulling, especially to customers who fork over even extra in cash. but by all means keep defending greedy ass billionaires who love this taint licking
The problem with some of Josh's explanations is that he skips important details to generate outrage like this. At 3:46 in the video you can see him showing the website where it clearly says "where available". It's not asterisked and buried in the fine print, it's right next to the service in the same font size and weight as the service being described. I noticed he didn't complain about a lack of security fast lane, which also doesn't exist at all airports and is also marked as "where available"
@@feluto7172 The rate you pay as a walk up customer and the contracted rate the airlines pay per visiting customer is quite different.
The seats look very uncomfortable and hard as a brick 💀💀
Well , that is business class standard on all European airlines. Only non-European airlines on 5th freedom flights offer proper business class like-flat seats.
Coincidence: the flight Seoul-Cebu is also exactly 4h40m . And served by both LCC’s and full carriers. Which I both used. So can compare a bit.
So long without IFE is boring! And charging sockets. Food choice. Extra drinks. Almost 5 hours is a bit long.
The narrow body concept on semi long haul will be the trend the next decades.
Can the armrest go up?
I fly several times per year with Lufthansa Business inside Europe. So here are some remarks:
1 - Lufthansa is usually not in charge of the check-in or other organisational procedures in airports, especially not outside of Germany. So the complaint that there were no "priority lines" at the counter or insufficent communication has to got to the airport staff, not the airline!
2 - The main feature for me on "Eurobusiness" (which rarely exceeds 4 hours and is mostly less than that) is not a 'flat bed' or high-tech seat, not even the better leg room, the free middle seat (which provides you more comfort,) the so-la-la warm meal or the priority boarding, it is the lounge access (where available - that´s also an airport thing!!!) and (most important!) that you can take up to 80 Kg(!) of luggage with you! 2 x 32 Kg check-in luggage and 2 x 8 Kg in the cabin. That is definitely worth the moderate mark-up from an economy ticket. For example: Economy from LCA to FRA (return) is around 400 €, the business ticket is around 600 € (all average prices - could be a little less or a little more, depending on the day and the season). That´s a difference of roughly 100 € per leg. And that is absolutely worth it!
Oh, btw, no, you´re not entitled to lounge access! It clearly states "where available" during booking. You don´t like that disclaimer - don´t book business! It´s as simple as that.
Just my two cents...
Isn’t it displayed at the offer like “lounge access where provided”?
I am kind of wondering as well. It is written quite clearly.
On our last flight to CLT LH gave us a Voucher for the Restaurants
I dont think it simply says "lounge access", but instead "lounge access when avialable" (or similar). That is a painfull difference, we also learned it the hard way: a few weeks ago we flew with Condor back from the USA to Frankfurt, especially back from Los Angeles. It was the same setup, we had quite an expensive business class booking which also *should* include lounge access - but (believe it or not) there was no lounge at Los Angeles. Of course, there are lounges, but these are all in the main terminal, our flight took of from the new Terminal 2, which still does not offer a lounge and its simply way to far to go to the main terminal. You could go by Shuttle, but that quites quite an amount of time and you will definately be in danger to miss your flight. Thats not an option. So - we had no lounge. No restaurant voucher, no excuse, nothing. We spent more than 40$ for two, having a snack and beer each.
Hey Josh, I flew from Rome to Munich last week on Lufthansa Business Class we had access to Plaza premium lounge as Lufthansa didn't have their own lounge at FCO.
Looks like a shambles. Not a business class product and shouldn’t therefore be marketed as such. Premium Economy at best.
What about US domestic first class then? 😂😂
It is written very clear lounge where available so no lounge available over there so its not a mislead your problem
Domestic US and Canada flights have no lounge access for 95% of their flights
Yes but US = big
It is the rule even with Delta Airlines, where it is more strict, entry only with certain credit cards. LoungeBuddy is a good tool, but their contract lounges are not available everywhere. United AIrlines and American are better: They offer you a lounge pass for purchase.
But united does not provide business on domestic flight. It’s their first class
At some airports like ORD in the United States, you can't get lounge access even with Priority Pass when half of the lounges have Priority Pass signs.
Not true. Vast majority of US airports feature a lounge.
As for dedicated business class seats, there seems to b e one other exception: Last year I flew Icelandair from Reykjavik to Frankfurt in Business (Saga Premium) and they did have dedicated business class seats.
Lufthansa: I am German and I am travelling several times a year, both privately and on the job. Most of the time I try to avoid Lufthansa. The flights themselves usually are ok, but things around the flights, like the service on the ground in Frankfurt or contact with the airline are rather disappointing.
LH service is declining, their seat assignment algorithms stick even Star Alliance Gold card passengers flying economy in the back of the plane and frequently to middle seats. Of the LH group of airlines, Austrian Airlines provides the best service in the air and on the ground.
of course they should have provided at least a voucher... I find it quite an "interesting" business model to sell a ticket with lounge access from an airport with no lounge... but hmmm it is Lufthansa. I had to fly with them from Basel last week and like almost every LH flight in the last 30 years (of which I was Senator and HON for a long time) it was of course not issue free... I only fly LH, if there is really no way to avoid it, apart from swimming or walking
I had the displeasure of flying Lufthansa Frankfurt to LHR last month, boarding was a disaster, they setup a stand to I guess review your passport and put a sticker on the back, no explanation no reasoning or announcement but just everybody scrambling to get into the line including myself, then I get called up to the desk while waiting, I go up to the desk and they ask me you are aware you are in the exit row which i say yes and then they say ok great. I’ve never had this happen before usually when boarding you may get a question before entry to the plane or of course when seated before take off. So I ask them do I still have to get into the line for my passport and they say oh yeah get back in the line. So I got back into the end of the line. Then boarding starts some people have a sticker some don’t they all get boarded. When I get up to the entrance I show them the sticker that I did finally get after waiting in line for at least 30 mins, but they then proceed to again open my passport and review it. Can you imagine how many WTFs were popping up in my head? Never again.
We have flown on LH Business Class with my daughter for her first ever flight (4 legs with Frankfurt transfer both ways). The meal and the crew (including the pilots!) was absolutely wonderful, they treated my daughter like a real princess. She became obsessed with the world of aviation instantly (and now we can only fly business class :D ). I'm pretty happy we chose this carrier for this very special trip. The price was also a bargain, eg. significantly lower than Finnair with a similar seat setup and less "benefit".
Omg, it seems you have not experience with that. I flew a lot of time in business and it is the most bullshit you have. 3 seats, and the middle seat is not used … this is extremely uncomfortable…. Go to Asia and compare the domestic flight that offer business , you will find only two big seats very very comfortable and big enough …
4:30 you showed an image showing Loung access (where available) if a lounge is not available, why would they give you a food voucher?? that just doesn't make sense. Not all airports have lounges that every airline has access to!!
Few comments from a long time Senator (now lifetime Senator), but I am also Gold on KLM, have been Platinum at Emirates, etc..
1. Lounge access: I flew a while Business from Charlotte to MUC, No Star alliance available, they offered a 15 dollar voucher, with the prices in CLT there was only a gin tonic or a burger an McDonald’s. Ridiculous
2. Euro business: Scam, not worth any additional money. Only reason to pay extra would be extra perks like early boarding or extra baggage. But onboard it is totally not worth it.
3. intercontinental Business: all said, with the seat situation 2-2-2. Outdated!
4. Lounge itself, i was just two days ago 6 hours in the business class lounge of AF in CDG (missed connection). Far far better than Senator lounge of LH. Remember it was the AF Business.
I Could go on and on (Service on the phone, accessibility, App totally not user friendly and outdated, Flights available with miles, ……).
Bottom line, all this is not premium and it is embarrassing when even AF or the American Carriers have much better products now.
Long way to go LH if they wanna be real premium .
re the lounge. It does say "where available". So technically you can't complain. BUT ... a dining voucher for premium customers is surely something that's easy to do and great customer service!
Whether Euro-business is worth largely depends on price. Book in advance and there are some good deals not much more than Economy which definitely makes it worth it. I'd never pay full business price for short flights. I'm surprised there was no priority check-in (BA has this). Lounge access where available...if there's no lounge maybe LH reduce the fare - but hard to tell as fares move up/down so much. The other perk (for those interested) of Euro-business is much greater status points (although I don't know how this works for LH).
In rare occasions, when I need to bags business class is often cheaper than Eco.
Other than that I have absolutely no need to book business. The only benefit would be lounge, but that’s you have the PP
Absolutely agree! The least an airline the size and stature of Lufthansa can do. Gift voucher or add extra miles or just a flat 10/15% Off on the next Lufthansa ticket you buy. They make good money so definitely need to start paying up
Hello Josh! You could fly on Austrian Airlines they just got a 787. Nice Video!
Well its says lounge access where available. Obviously over there its not available. I always check prior I book a flight if there is a lounge available. If not I know I dont pay for lounge access. Obviously. If you see it from the perspective of a mixed calculation maybe Lufthansas profit is lower if there is a lounge available since probably Lufthansa pays for each pax extra who uses the lounge? However, check the service before booking a flight with any airline. Thanks for making your viewers aware of there is no lounge available. ;)
I flew the exact same route but with TAP portugal and with a stop in Lisbon. Even if it still was a european BC, the service was absolutely amazing. And to finish it all the foos couldn’t be better!
Hi Josh, enjoyed your video as always, but correct me if I am wrong, you said that Turkish Airlines are the only European Airlines that have dedicated Business class, unlike all the other European Airlines who block the middle seat, Turkey is not in Europe, so they are not a European Airline, sorry to be Political, but it is what it is, keep up the great content
LH is smart, as you see on your insert at the lounge access it mentions "where available" So with that they give themself a nice excuse not to offer anything. A voucher is the least they can offer.
European BC is a joke, the same seat as in EC for 3x the EC fare. Only to have the middle seat empty (you don't even have that on small planes like Embrear) and to be sitting in front of a curtain. But ok, mostly EU BC is used by passengers transferring to Intercontinental destinations.
Euro business brings you free meals and 2 checked bags.This is the flip side. But the only flip side.
I've had it where EB was cheaper than the cheaper econ ticket
Regarding the leg room on euro business. At least some airlines have few cm more seat pitch on the first rows that might be used as business rows.
Sometimes you might get to enjoy this extra leg room in y if the business cabin is set to a smaller config.
How would you know if the price of your ticket had already been discounted because the lounge was not available?
I stopped flying LH about 17 years ago. I had Senator status and traveled on them extensively, usually across the North Atlantic. I always appreciated the top-notch technical state of the airplanes, and the sound training LH pilots received. Sadly, as is the rule in Germany, customer service never was excellent. Oh yeah, and I only fly business or first. So, when they decided to sell a fake product, an economy seat for a business price, this was the final straw. The seat quality and legroom for me are the reasons why I gladly pay the surcharge. If I pay the price for a Mercedes, I would not want to get a Volkswagen with a sign that you should imagine it was a Mercedes.
Great video as usual Josh. We found the same when we flew BA Club Europe from Gatwick to Faro and back. The food was not great (on the return flight there was only one option and most of the ingredients were either pickled or fermented which I hate), the cabin crew were friendly but spent a lot of time chatting amongst themselves, rather than serving customers. At one point my partner actually had to get up and go and ask for a second cup of tea. The seat pitch was the same as for economy class. To be honest, it isn’t worth the extra cost for flights under 3 hours. Plus, finding the business class lounge at Faro was difficult and when we got there, the facilities were very poor.
When I purchase a business seat, I expect it to be larger, which is the main reason for my choice. Finding economy-sized seats labeled as "Euro business" is very disappointing and misleading for business class.
On a trip in early 2024, we discovered metal bars installed, preventing us from lifting the armrests.
If they said "where available" for the lounge, they're off the legal hook, but as you suggested, they should have issued a restaurant voucher to provide the expected Business Class Experience. It seems that the Lufthansa Azores team is not on the ball.
Try flying Bulgaria airs new business class on their a220. You might like it, who knows? It looked similar to the airplane that you showed in the beginning. 😊❤
If you were sold lounge access and there is no lounge, go to their customer support office and tell them to make it right or demand they get you an equivalent seat on a different airline.
Flew to UK from NZ with Qatar Business Class, and it was awesome to try the new Q suites (can't remember if that was the right name.) However, we were tould shortly before leaving that due to operational requirements it wasn't available to Manchester from Doha. Got a very old 777 instead. Lounge access was great in Auckland, and Doha. On our return we were denied access to the lounge at Manchester because they said we had purchased a special fare which neither my travel agent nor I knew about. Staff in Manchester were just about the worst I have ever come across. After a week stopover on Doha, same again, no business class lounge access although we were able to access the Frequent Flyer lounge, but only after arguments with the Qatar staff at the airport. Once again very arrogant and aggressive. just as an aside, the same old rundown 777 was still on the Doha Manchester run as the same things were broken. We did enjoy the Business Class experience and on those long-haul flights it makes the experience bearable. Value for money at almost 4 times the price of economy...perhaps 😉😉
But but you should know by now the only important thing with Latehansa is the bonus for upper management. The customer is merely a nuisance...
I think the euro business question is simply due to the amount of consolidation (and lack of competition) within the full service market (IAG, Lufthansa group, Air France / KLM) and the only real competition being in the Low Cost and ultra low markets
I recently flew Business from Dubai to Frankfurt- I agree poor service no meals, i would rate staff 1/5, no food, seat 2/5. The staff attitude was like you are travelling free and should not ask fro orange drink extra, will never try again
you have have to remember check in staff at these small airports and unlikely to be LH employees - they are just local people contracted to work in check in and probably cover other airlines too - they have no idea of premium customer service.
I have to agree about LH.
The hard product for business class is poor but I have enjoyed the staff and the catering. The staff on occassions have gone above and beyond what I expected for service and having FRA as my base in Europe, I can get to where i need to go with LH.
It would be great if they had a true business class product as I experience in the rest of the world, but it would require all airlines to change, as as Josh said, they arent going to change what they have been doing for a long time.
When FRA had to close the airport due to snow and there was so many people turning up the next day trying to get flights out, it was great to see LH staff handing out water and snacks to the extremely long queues of passengers. People werent getting angry or frustrated, and the staff were always providing information and helping out. It was a new experience for me, but it was great customer service.
hey josh just saw your video on air peace and i just have to tell you again you need to fly them again try the lagos to london route trust me you wont regret it
Regarding the voucher - entitled to, I would say no. The fare conditions you showed clearly stated “where available”, so Lufthansa gets out of any obligation to you regarding this service.
But I still think it would be a good idea and customer service appropriate for the image Lufthansa wishes to convey as an airline.
Definitely a compensation of some sort should be provided in case of a “lounge-less” business class booking!
Lufthansa --> bare minimum service, shit food, premium prices
I would love to see you taking a flight with Latam Airlines or Avianca😊
I think you are absolutely right. When we flew KKC-BKK we got a voucher due to the lounge was not back in place after the airport terminal upgrade.
Have you tried the SAS premium economy and business class on long haul?
I'm wondering which to go for and if premium economy is good enough on CPH-BKK 🤔
Flew out of Punta Cana BA Club which also had no lounge but was given a $20.00 voucher to buy food and drink in the shops at business check in. OK this was long haul but there is a big difference from an economy seat to lie flat.
Yes, IMO you are entitled for the resto voucher in lieu of the lounge access.
nice video, josh! i reviewed the same product myself when i flew from stockholm to frankfurt and i had a similar experience.
though you recieved a meal that looked way better than mine, plus we weren’t handed out the same menus as you had, we had a snacks menu and we could pre-order a meal.
I love LH but honestly couldn't tell you why. They literally do the minimum, fairly coldly. Their motto? We never go the extra Kilometre!
Was the meal different to what they got in economy? I agree about the lounge, they should make it clear when you book that there is no lounge available at that location.
one or two years ago LH chose to hand over all ground customer services to service providers except for their Hubs (although they are working on it)
On paper it looks like the perfect solution: staff walk around in uniforms similar to the ones of LH leading you to believe that you are dealing with airline staff, no problems with your own employees calling in sick, going on strike, wanting higher wages etc.
But what most companies fail to see (and more airlines than you thinks do this, even Emirates and the other seemingly "luxurious" ones) is that these service providers see the airlines as their customer. Not the passenger, and that shows. They do not tend to care. Especially at holiday destinations like PDL where they can be almost sure not to see you again and flights are suspended in off-season.
Icelandair has the best Euro Business Class. Big comfy seats in a 2 - 2 configuration plus Wi-Fi and IFE. Reasonably priced to. And a great lounge in Keflavik Airport.
I was considering booking a Business Class flight recently on the Eurobusiness Class. Economy was 250€, Business almost 800€!! Both prices are one way. So you pay more than 500€ for a blocked middle seat and lounge access which I wouldn't be using for very long since the flight leaves quite early. No thanks. I'll spend the money at my destination instead.
I get your point about a voucher if there is no lounge. However, is it already reflected in the price? Would a flight of similar distance with a loung available cost the same? Impossible to give your opinion unless you know the full details. Lufthansa could be more upfront about, though! Personally, business class in Europe I find, at best, premium economy. If you go for all the options with Ryanair or EasyJet, the only differences are the food and the price. And I don’t think your meal, nice as it was, was worth the difference! Great review as always; I love your honesty!!
On short and medium-haul flights, you can't expect more, especially when it comes to the seats. We can only hope that the upholstery will at least be changed on the older aircraft, as this would make the cabin look a little fresher again.
SCAM is a harsh word. I'd call it a swindle, a con, a sham, a rip-off, a gimmick, and a hoax from a bunch of Shysters.
Simple answer is yes! Seat map it to the best you can if you want B or E empty. Euro Business is awful on LH, BA, KL or any European airline. Unless LHR -MAD reverse on an A350, then yes!
One time I was flying Air Canada J out of LIS. And the lounge was undergoing renovations. Therefore, I did not get the lounge access to which I was entitled. I submitted a complaint and got a discount code for 20% off my next flight. Not only was the 20% off my ticket, but those of my companions as well! I was satisfied with that. I do agree that if you are promised lounge access and you don't get it, there should be some kind of compensation.
I use to work for a FMCG multi national company, if their were faulty products they would give you a voucher to 3 times of the value you purchased as it was easier than sending you a new product. Would be nice if Lufthansa gave you three free entries to one of their business class lounges
It’s tough being an airline these days. (From a former airline employee)
Definitely something if they do have lounge at that airport.
Recently my little one and I flew First Class where we went into the lounge and my little one wanted to walk around the airport, so I told them we would be back, we came back to a line up. she seen us and wave us up to the counter to check in, again my little one didn’t want to go upstairs so she gave us $50 airport dollars so we could spend else where in the airport. 😅 my little one got some cake pops and got to watch the planes come in and land 😂
I used to love flying with Lufthansa. The customer service was already bad before the pandemic. It’s sad to see that Lufthansa doesn’t want to improve.