Very interesting. Reviews back in the day (both music and equipment) were very different than today. They said what they thought because they didn't have to please advertisers. Reviews in modern magazines are all suspect IMO.
Verve sure was advertiser, but you are correct back then the thinking was a 3star rating and review(mention) was better than no review or mention…. I just , personally found this review unreasonable…perhaps I’m too much of an Evans lover. However there are some rather average records that Bill made, like a lot of folks… guess it’s all personal taste…thanks for the comment and for checking out the video…JG
I guess I’m not a sufficient jazz enthusiast, since i have this album, and absolutely LOVE it. But, then again, i love Jazz of different persuasions from 30s - late 50s, and just a few early 60s. After that, it tends away from my flavor.
Even's music was a staple of my father's studio. So I learned about cool jazz before I could walk. It’s true that the audience imposes meaning and context onto music. Every record is special to someone. But that is the living essence of culture in a consumer world. It gets validated when people dive deeper, and get beyond personal likes and dislikes. There is plenty of music that I respect, but would not be my first choice to listen too. Consuming music is NOT the same as composing or performing it, and it is very easy to forget this. Which is why humility is essential. There is nothing like music to bring out the closet fascist in a random citizen. Thank god the era of art critiques and king maker record labels has been relegated to the history books by the internet. The money may be gone, but every song can in theory find its fans. Comparison, is the ultimate market force that refines popular culture over the long term. The gems tend to gather their own audience, and seminal works don’t have to be great performances in their own right. Culture is full of happy accidents, and all ideas can be inspirational. I dig Bill Evans because his work CONTINUES to stands out as my musical knowledge expands. What greater compliment can anyone make?
What a great reply.... and I agree100%.......its so important the folks appreciate some kind of art, especially music....its good for the mind and the soul. You really nailed things so well...thank you! and this is why these forums are so educational, and fun to learn from...JG
Speaking of Bill Evans there's a great new book out by James Kaplan called 3 Shades of Blue: Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Bill Evans and the lost empire of Cool that just came out this year you might want to check out
I guess I'm on the downbeat side with this record That's why I find it on sale all the time and even then knowing how great acoustic sounds makes their records after listening to it I still found nothing on the record to warrant purchasing the album. I already have too many records I don't listen to. Thanks for making the video I do enjoy your channel
Thanks Ron…back atcha… enjoy yours as well…. Verve was sometimes no friend to musicians…all about the $$$… but then again the musicians know that going in! JG
I can see, where the reviewer was coming from. When the reissues of Trio 64 and 65 were announced, I streamed them on my phone, while I was doing stuff around my home. At that time I was still new to jazz and not familiar with Bill Evans. The music didn't catch my attention and I remember thinking, that it was kind of elevator music. I gave it a second chance later on, where I would just sit and listen to the music and not do anything else. This time it did catch me, so I ordered both records and still like them. But Trio 64 is still the stronger one imho. My favorite recordings of his are You must believe in Spring and Everybody digs... With Peace Piece as my favorite track. That song is pure bliss.
Bill Evans was never background music. Bill Evans 65' was a great group. I saw them live at Shelly's Manne Hole in the sixties. The record itself was recorded by Rudy Van Gelder the great Blue Note Series. He was my least favorite engineer for Evans. Evans Riverside recordings captured the soft nuances of his sound. I thought Van Gelders sound was hard and mettalic😮
I couldnt agree more... Just listen to" It Might as Well be Spring"---the reissue in 22(I think) was amazing... RVG is revered and I think did a good job ,back in the day, with the Blue Note quintet things etc( the reissues remastered I think are much better than the OG's) but his trios things and what you refer to as more nuanced music was pretty mediocre. I made a comment to someone here in the forum on how Bill's Riverside recordings were far superioe in sound AND musically! Listen to his playing on Kind of Blue... the recording was amazingly good dealing with Even's sound on the piano...Verve stuff... ok, but not great!! Very good points..thank you.... and thanks for the comment and for listening!
Hey Jack! I should have guessed you had a channel with all your knowledge! Just wondering as I am a Jazz newbie. What are your thoughts on Melody Gardot? I love her, almost as much as Billie and Ella - almost 😁
Timeless is not a Japanese label, it's Dutch. They just licensed a large part of their catalogue to a Japanese company that reissues them in LP and CD format.
Sounds like Mr. Wilson may have had a personal beef with Bill. Interesting that you showed “Everybody Digs…”, the cover says it all. I will trust the opinions of Miles, George Shearing, and Ahmad Jamal, over the reviewer any day. Excellent job Jack!
You are 100% correct…God forbid we listen! I’ve heard some pretty good unknown pianists in hotel lounges…that required some listening to appreciate…nothing wrong with that! Thanks for listening and for the comment…JG
I have about a dozen box sets on Bill Evans alone. He's not in my Top 10 at the piano and I rank Dave Brubeck, Horace Silver, Sonny Clark, John Wright, and Red Garland much higher. When you have 80K cds, they all compete for your time and Evans is middle of the pack for me but very distinct. Like Art Pepper, Chet Baker, and Dave Brubeck, I find his later work rather redundant. I have his full catalog twice over in standalone cds and box set form. Stan Kenton was popular as well and we see how much he's discussed today. That's for the tip off on Golson. That I missed. By the mid 60's, I'm falling off the wagon and getting into Stax and Motown.
wow thats a lot of music !!!!!! so many great players and so many underated... John Wright for one!-Thanks fo thecomment an for listening---new video coming romorrow I hope!..JG
Thanks…you bums are some of the best jazz info creators here on the tube! Keep it up…Though I am busier with travel and my photo business these days..I check out each and every video you all do…and learn something every time…thanks for what you do!…JG
Its clear that that critic in Downbeat has landed firmly on the wrong side of history.Likening Evans playing to background noise is something one would expect from someone with only a passing knowledge or interest in piano jazz.I would like to see other reviews of that album from the same time frame.
Me too…..I’ll keep looking!,,,,the Penguin guide gave it *** as well…said it was”Good..not great”….i wonder if that reviewer was influenced by the downbeat writer.Downbeat carried a lot of weight back then? Thanks for the comment &for listening…JG
I bought Trio '65 when it came out. Very disappointing. Uninspired playing, short tracks. Big and longtime fan of Evans but that LP just didn't cut it, IMHO.
I’d give it almost a four star.. just not quite….his Riverside recordings were a lot better in my opinion…verve had a different mindset from Riverside…thus the shorter tracks I think…..thanks for the comment and checking out the video…Jg
Paolo…thanks for the comment…math is why I use an accountant!,,,..Trio 64 & 65 are both 2 of my favorite Evans recordings….thanks for checking out andvcommenting…JG
Bill Evans is great, but very predictable. It maybe an exaggeration, but I always say if you heard 1 Bill Evans record you heard them all. Nobody can beat Miles Davis for making something new. Kind of Blue and Miles Smiles are miles apart. The reviewer's comments about Evans also reflect as to why Jazz music has not lasted in popularity. Much of it is route. Rock music is much more dynamic in styles. Maybe there's more to work with in Rock than Jazz, and explains the fascination with the Beatles. Very diverse records, totally different from each other.
thanks for the comment.. Perhaps, likke everyting in art, personl taste is just that.. personal. I hope we can agree to disagree on the "much of it is route" and Evans is predictable.! Though I am far from a Beatles expert or even qualified to go into much discourse on them, most musical writers and scholars praise their creativity and what they did, even beyond what the general public appreciated. A good case in point it the great Leonard Bernstein...check out this video! ua-cam.com/video/v32U0mjGz6g/v-deo.html Again, thanks for the coment and for listening... great to get different viewpoints... With respect--JG
Very interesting. Reviews back in the day (both music and equipment) were very different than today. They said what they thought because they didn't have to please advertisers. Reviews in modern magazines are all suspect IMO.
Verve sure was advertiser, but you are correct back then the thinking was a 3star rating and review(mention) was better than no review or mention…. I just , personally found this review unreasonable…perhaps I’m too much of an Evans lover. However there are some rather average records that Bill made, like a lot of folks… guess it’s all personal taste…thanks for the comment and for checking out the video…JG
You mus beileve in Spring was my :Record of Year in 2023!---amazing---thsno for the coment and for watching!-JG
I guess I’m not a sufficient jazz enthusiast, since i have this album, and absolutely LOVE it. But, then again, i love Jazz of different persuasions from 30s - late 50s, and just a few early 60s. After that, it tends away from my flavor.
I just love "Trio 65". I have that same copy. The music just keeps growing.
Evan was a genius! I just wish he stayed with Riverside! Verve paid well!-Thanks for watching!-JG
Even's music was a staple of my father's studio. So I learned about cool jazz before I could walk. It’s true that the audience imposes meaning and context onto music. Every record is special to someone. But that is the living essence of culture in a consumer world. It gets validated when people dive deeper, and get beyond personal likes and dislikes. There is plenty of music that I respect, but would not be my first choice to listen too.
Consuming music is NOT the same as composing or performing it, and it is very easy to forget this. Which is why humility is essential. There is nothing like music to bring out the closet fascist in a random citizen.
Thank god the era of art critiques and king maker record labels has been relegated to the history books by the internet. The money may be gone, but every song can in theory find its fans. Comparison, is the ultimate market force that refines popular culture over the long term. The gems tend to gather their own audience, and seminal works don’t have to be great performances in their own right. Culture is full of happy accidents, and all ideas can be inspirational.
I dig Bill Evans because his work CONTINUES to stands out as my musical knowledge expands. What greater compliment can anyone make?
What a great reply.... and I agree100%.......its so important the folks appreciate some kind of art, especially music....its good for the mind and the soul.
You really nailed things so well...thank you!
and this is why these forums are so educational, and fun to learn from...JG
Speaking of Bill Evans there's a great new book out by James Kaplan called 3 Shades of Blue: Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Bill Evans and the lost empire of Cool that just came out this year you might want to check out
Thanks Dan…read it…great invite in this book….appreciate the comment and for listening!,,,,,JG
I guess I'm on the downbeat side with this record That's why I find it on sale all the time and even then knowing how great acoustic sounds makes their records after listening to it I still found nothing on the record to warrant purchasing the album. I already have too many records I don't listen to. Thanks for making the video I do enjoy your channel
Thanks Ron…back atcha… enjoy yours as well…. Verve was sometimes no friend to musicians…all about the $$$… but then again the musicians know that going in!
JG
Great Video - What is the Title of The Young/Hawkins 5 Star Album title?
I can see, where the reviewer was coming from. When the reissues of Trio 64 and 65 were announced, I streamed them on my phone, while I was doing stuff around my home.
At that time I was still new to jazz and not familiar with Bill Evans. The music didn't catch my attention and I remember thinking, that it was kind of elevator music.
I gave it a second chance later on, where I would just sit and listen to the music and not do anything else. This time it did catch me, so I ordered both records and still like them. But Trio 64 is still the stronger one imho.
My favorite recordings of his are You must believe in Spring and Everybody digs... With Peace Piece as my favorite track. That song is pure bliss.
Bill Evans was never background music. Bill Evans 65' was a great group. I saw them live at Shelly's Manne Hole in the sixties. The record itself was recorded by Rudy Van Gelder the great Blue Note Series. He was my least favorite engineer for Evans. Evans Riverside recordings captured the soft nuances of his sound. I thought Van Gelders sound was hard and mettalic😮
I couldnt agree more... Just listen to" It Might as Well be Spring"---the reissue in 22(I think) was amazing... RVG is revered and I think did a good job ,back in the day, with the Blue Note quintet things etc( the reissues remastered I think are much better than the OG's) but his trios things and what you refer to as more nuanced music was pretty mediocre. I made a comment to someone here in the forum on how Bill's Riverside recordings were far superioe in sound AND musically! Listen to his playing on Kind of Blue... the recording was amazingly good dealing with Even's sound on the piano...Verve stuff... ok, but not great!! Very good points..thank you.... and thanks for the comment and for listening!
Great insight and very interesting information, Jack. Thx for the hard work. Cheers, a
See ya tonight… booming a storms here today! A good BRUCKNER day!
Hey Jack! I should have guessed you had a channel with all your knowledge! Just wondering as I am a Jazz newbie. What are your thoughts on Melody Gardot? I love her, almost as much as Billie and Ella - almost 😁
Timeless is not a Japanese label, it's Dutch. They just licensed a large part of their catalogue to a Japanese company that reissues them in LP and CD format.
Sounds like Mr. Wilson may have had a personal beef with Bill. Interesting that you showed “Everybody Digs…”, the cover says it all. I will trust the opinions of Miles, George Shearing, and Ahmad Jamal, over the reviewer any day. Excellent job Jack!
You are 100% correct…God forbid we listen! I’ve heard some pretty good unknown pianists in hotel lounges…that required some listening to appreciate…nothing wrong with that! Thanks for listening and for the comment…JG
I have about a dozen box sets on Bill Evans alone. He's not in my Top 10 at the piano and I rank Dave Brubeck, Horace Silver, Sonny Clark, John Wright, and Red Garland much higher. When you have 80K cds, they all compete for your time and Evans is middle of the pack for me but very distinct. Like Art Pepper, Chet Baker, and Dave Brubeck, I find his later work rather redundant. I have his full catalog twice over in standalone cds and box set form. Stan Kenton was popular as well and we see how much he's discussed today.
That's for the tip off on Golson. That I missed. By the mid 60's, I'm falling off the wagon and getting into Stax and Motown.
wow thats a lot of music !!!!!! so many great players and so many underated... John Wright for one!-Thanks fo thecomment an for listening---new video coming romorrow I hope!..JG
Good one Jack - Mike
Thanks…you bums are some of the best jazz info creators here on the tube! Keep it up…Though I am busier with travel and my photo business these days..I check out each and every video you all do…and learn something every time…thanks for what you do!…JG
Its clear that that critic in Downbeat has landed firmly on the wrong side of history.Likening Evans playing to background noise is something one would expect from someone with only a passing knowledge or interest in piano jazz.I would like to see other reviews of that album from the same time frame.
Me too…..I’ll keep looking!,,,,the Penguin guide gave it *** as well…said it was”Good..not great”….i wonder if that reviewer was influenced by the downbeat writer.Downbeat carried a lot of weight back then? Thanks for the comment &for listening…JG
I bought Trio '65 when it came out. Very disappointing. Uninspired playing, short tracks. Big and longtime fan of Evans but that LP just didn't cut it, IMHO.
I’d give it almost a four star.. just not quite….his Riverside recordings were a lot better in my opinion…verve had a different mindset from Riverside…thus the shorter tracks I think…..thanks for the comment and checking out the video…Jg
If the review was done in 1965 it's not 49 years ago but 59 years ago! Sorry. All in all this is a fantastic record, I agree
Paolo…thanks for the comment…math is why I use an accountant!,,,..Trio 64 & 65 are both 2 of my favorite Evans recordings….thanks for checking out andvcommenting…JG
Bill Evans is great, but very predictable. It maybe an exaggeration, but I always say if you heard 1 Bill Evans record you heard them all. Nobody can beat Miles Davis for making something new. Kind of Blue and Miles Smiles are miles apart. The reviewer's comments about Evans also reflect as to why Jazz music has not lasted in popularity. Much of it is route. Rock music is much more dynamic in styles. Maybe there's more to work with in Rock than Jazz, and explains the fascination with the Beatles. Very diverse records, totally different from each other.
thanks for the comment.. Perhaps, likke everyting in art, personl taste is just that.. personal. I hope we can agree to disagree on the "much of it is route" and Evans is predictable.! Though I am far from a Beatles expert or even qualified to go into much discourse on them, most musical writers and scholars praise their creativity and what they did, even beyond what the general public appreciated. A good case in point it the great Leonard Bernstein...check out this video!
ua-cam.com/video/v32U0mjGz6g/v-deo.html
Again, thanks for the coment and for listening... great to get different viewpoints...
With respect--JG