How to Lay Underfloor Heating in a Screed
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- Опубліковано 23 лют 2021
- Roger shows us how he installs radiant underfloor heating in a screed.
This is the Worcester Bosch Greenfloor system but the ideas can be applied to other systems.
Check out the Underfloor Heating Store.
www.theunderfloorheatingstore...
They supply electric and water underfloor heating systems as well as thermostats, controls, insulation board, adhesives and revellers.
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#UnderfloorHeating #UFH #RadiantHeating
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I've watched your videos from underfloor heating to laying blocks and rendering, and all your videos have helped me greatly, there always highly informative and pick up on the points you really need to know.
Keep up the great work and keep em coming....
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Nicely explained It seems the technology is improving all the time , plus the ability to run under floor on the ground floor and radiators upstairs is a less invasive way to go thanks for the video 😃👍
I always do that. I don't like UFH in bedrooms
Cheers Roger the younger ! ....very informative and reading through all the questions and your answers helps no end cheers 👍
Yes, I noticed that and looked for the date this video was made - to no avail !
Thanks so much. Great video. Just looking into doing it and your video gives me much more confidence.
Glad it was helpful!
Brilliant install Roger. You make it look so easy!!!
It ain't hard, this stuff it well designed so just follow the drawings.
In fairness he didn't actually do it in 11 minutes 4 seconds, the video is edited.
@@grrinc what? I thought he was superman? ;)
Great job well done!
Nice video Roger, great to see you looking better !!
It is a characteristic of the young that they believe youth is a permanent condition. Conversley the old understand that old age is temporary.
Your new skin care treatment is working amazingly well. You look 20yrs younger
Yes it is a pity I didn't discover it earlier
@@SkillBuilder what are you using?
@@MarSaso
Hahaha
They are pulling each other's leg.
@@MarSaso Pollyfiller
This is the job that I love
Excellent video thank you.
Ahhh, nice to see a pre war Roger, reminds me of the good old days
What War 1st or 2nd?
Great video.
Great video. I actually found it quite relaxing to watch. Cheers fellas. 😎
Great job
Great overview. Just wanted to understand, in a Hydronic system, how component constitute to cost? For instance, how much % share does following components hold in a typical UFH system:
1. Manifolds and valves-
2. Zone Valves-
3. Thermostats and sensors-
4. Wiring center -
5. Heating pipes-
Glad to see your son helping out
He loves it, can't keep him away.
Informativ video👍
this man can do everything
He can't draw
Very interesting video. We're in the process of finishing our ground floor renovation, tiler will be here in a couple of weeks. There's an existing screeded floor which was part of an accessible bathroom. We've had to remove the screed to get to the sub floor as the toilet & soil pipe is set in concrete 360mm from the wall ( doh!).
Anyway, I only just found out about screed curing & drying times which would really drag out our project. Our plumber has suggested running flow and return to the towel rail in the floor as a pseudo wet underfloor system - just as you've suggested doing in another comment which I'm really keen to do, but. I'm looking for a quicker alternative to screed.
Bathroom is tiny - 6ft square with a 900 Quadrant Shower tray so area is barely 2.5sqm. Tiler has suggested using 2 part latex, laid over a couple of days in two layers as an alternative e to the whole wait around for screed to cure & dry. Any idea if this would work as an alternative. Or is there another option?
With such a small area the material cost is less of an issue, we're just looking for speed so we can be finished by Easter!
Hi Adrian
Run the return as a snaking pipe through the screed and that will help prevent it overheating. Take the flow direct to the towel rail.
Good news for you is that you can buy a screed cement that is rapid set and absorbs the water.
It allows you to tile after 48 hours.
ardex.co.uk/product/ardex-a-29/
Does the rapid set screed give as good a result as the slower setting screed?
Also what is the price differential between rapid set and more traditional slow set screed?
Hi Roger
I like the idea of using a dry screed in your video, although it may not be your preferred choice. What cement/sharp sand mix was used?
We are just preparing our kitchen (23m2) for underfloor heating and I thought I’d get some quotes for a flow screed. £1400 & another at £2000. This is way over our budget. A dry screed would be so much cheaper. Any suggestions on cement type?
I’ve opted for a milled concrete slab floor with 14mm wet system in conjunction with air source heat pump. The slab is insulated with 150mm celotex as well. We have only ran a thin flexible screed over the pipework and now it is to be tiled with a 10mm ceramic tile. Any advice on this system?
Anyone know where to get the cover box he had for the system and controls?
Love your videos. What’s the make and model of those tiles you used?
Great job with the way the pipes are being layed. In a snail pattern instead of going across to one wall an back to the other wall like most fitters would do. Would using a liquid self leveling screed not be better for holding the heat an then realising the heat into the room than a sand cement screed?
Yes liquid screeds are best but sand and cement is not bad if it is done well.
Hi Roger, what matting system is this called? I used the red system matting (not insulated) a few weeks ago and my screed supplier refused to lay the screed floor over and we had to take it up and clip to the insulation (old school) prior to more DPM. Cheers
That looks like a nice solid built manifold.
I didnt see the insulated mat that you used in the store link. Does it have foil under it? Could you use gypcrete with it or would it leak through?
When is the best time of year to fit a system?
Where can I find a decent installer?
How much does a typical 5x5 installation cost on a new build?
Cheers
Great video Roger. I read it's not good to add the pipes near walls or where heavy items will be placed, as the heat will/ maybe ruin the item e.g TV cabinet, sofa etc, what are your thoughts?
Generally we avoid putting the pipes under fixed furniture but people often change room layouts. I have some built in storage and seating in my kitchen and the UFH goes under it.
Everything in those cupboards is toasty warm, it can work in your favour
Hello guys what product and brand was the panels, I've not been able to find it. I prefer the snail method of pipework.
What steps do you take if you're going over floorboards?
Great Tutorial really good video.
Is it better to let the screed go off on its on or is this a usual procedure?
Justin brickright 👍
Yes and yes. You must let it cure first for those 3 or 4 weeks then you can gently remove the moisture with the heating or you can leave it to dry. 1mm per day.
Men like roger and robin make me proud to be British 🇬🇧 top blokes
Bit racist that mate
@@jasonantigua6825 I seriously hope this is a joke
@@amateurvegan2636 Let’s just leave it there mate! You said your bit!!!
@@jasonantigua6825 I think he’s talking about being proud of the knowledge and professionalism of British tradesmen.
@@immers2410 Let’s hope so!
Can you do your own liquid mix for this underfloor heating, 75m2 or is it too much, you need to get a supplier who pumps it in
Would you self level wooden floorboards before using these pipe pannels? I imagine my floor could be a couple inches off across the room but not measured and I'm unsure if uneven screed ontop of the pipe will be a problem. Could have hot and cold spots warming up but otherwise no problem?
I would strongly recommend using more insulation under the UFH. If I was building a new house I would use at least 100mm of PIR.
Good idea. The Building regs normally specify 90 mm but I have a 150mm in my extension.
Hi Roger. Great video. I am just about to put a hot water underfloor heating system in a new 42 sqm extension. My wife wants a Karndean laminate floor. Would this be ok with the heating system? Karndean say as long as the surface temperature is no more than 27 degrees then should be ok but would appreciate your opinion. Cheers
I doubt Roger would add anything to what the floor manufacturer has said?
Hi. Is it posible to heat shower floor? And all bathroom?
What was the diameter of the 200 mtr pipe ,
Joe
Does the screed install hold heat better than the warmboard installs, which basically have to run all the time to keep warm? Also, what temp does the screed need to maintain comfortable levels and how often do they cycle?
One stupid question. Can the distributor be fitted in the room below the room where the floor heating is being installed? I plan to run one set of the pipes from ground level distributor to one circuit on the ground level and second set of pipes to first floor. Or is it better to have the distributor placed on the first floor? In that case I have a longer supply and return pipe... Thanks!
4:36 Roger tightens up the fittings on the fountain of youth. pmsl
Any recommendations Roger for an overlay UFH system on an un-insulated concrete slab (1950s semi). Struggling to find something that adds enough insulation without too much build-up as the ceilings are only 2.3m high. From drilling a hole it looks like there is only about 25mm screed on top of a 4" slab if that helps. Would prefer to avoid the cost of digging the whole slab up!
Hi Dane
I am afraid you are looking for the best of both worlds and there is nothing wrong with that but there is no way of getting the required insulation without the build up or the hack off. I have a similar issue at my daughter's house and I am thinking that a low build 16mm system with a really low temperature is going to give some heat without it all being lost. To be honest I don't know how it will work out but the prospect of hacking up a screed in an occupied house is too daunting for now.
@@SkillBuilder Thanks for the reply Roger. I've had so many opinions ranging from the JK system (grooves routed in the screed with zero insulation - they obviously claim it will do the job no problem) through to you need to dig it all up. Currently contemplating hacking up the thin layer of screed (we're doing a big renovation so not bothered about mess, just cost) to at least get 25mm PIR down and then either a low build system or just 35-40mm of flow screed over pipes. Thanks again and keep up the good work - these videos are invaluable to first-time home owner like me who are approaching a renovation job.
Blimey... Is that Roger Junior?
Even I was young once, I can almost remember it.
did floor heating can use standard boiler same for central heating
Sorry to ask a stupid question with the screed taking 21 days to dry is there any way you can still live in the house or at least part of the house?
What was the depth of the screed?
Roger
What the best option where you have a original suspended timber floor an adjoining timber extension ?
Both I suppose extension wise should I carry on with suspended floor or switch to ground bearing slab
An then if keeping 2 system will the UFH working across 2 floor types ?
I have done both. The pipe in screed gives you thermal mass and will hold heat more evenly. There is always an issue joining floors so it would be best to lay a low build system across both if you can get away with the increase in height. If you look at the Underfloor Heating Store website you will see how the different systems work, They will give you advice and come up with a plan.
@@SkillBuilder sorry mate just clarifying
Do you think have 2 different flooring constructions is an issue though or retain suspended timber floor across existing an extension
What about wooden sprung floors, can you do a video on that please!!
We have that video. Go to the Home Page and type underfloor heating and you will see several videos
Roger, are there any issues having the pump, isolating valves and manifolds on the first floor of the property and the boiler on the ground floor? I live in a 150 year old house with no ability to run the screed pipes through the house. The bathroom isn’t huge, approx. 3.5m x 3.5m. What’s your advice? I understand electric mats can be very expensive to run. Thanks, Rob
Hi Rob
If you are just looking to warm up the tiles you can do that with electric mat and it is fine but if you have heating pipes going to a towel rail then I would run the return from the towel rail around the floor with some insulation. I have done this in my bathroom and shower room and both of them work really well with no manifolds. The heating is a combination of the towel rail and the underfloor pipe. If it gets too hot the TRV on the towel rail shuts it down.
Thanks Roger, this is brilliant and I really appreciate you taking the time to get back to me with your advice. 👍🏼
I feel like I've gone through a wormhole to about 5 years ago!
more like 11 years ago. I was a mere 57 years old
@@SkillBuilder You're wearing well Roger!
Young Rog 👌🏼🏴👍🏼
It had to happen one day
is the thickness of the insulation board thick enough? I thought it had to be idealy 100mm, minimum of 50mm
You gotta do what you can. Ideally you would put some more under this but if you can't you can't. The house is being heated by a ground source heat pump so there is some justification in this approach rather than radiators.
Great vid how far under cement should the pipes be?
We looked at a screeded system on an install we did 12 years ago when underfloor was still relatively new .
On an existing slab it seemed a lot of work , plus the expensive preforms - we just didn't have the budget.
We simply used 50mm extruded polystyrene over the whole ground floor slab , drew out the respective circuits onto the polystyrene and simply routed out the channels for the piping.
The floor was covered in solid oak 3/4" flooring - the kitchen floor was covered in cement board and tiled with latex based adhesive.
After 12 years the feedback has been entirely positive - no problems at all - maybe a screed would have been a more efficient heat store , but that weight of oak and the cement board and tiles have given a good return for the money , with a very economical energy use.
It is sometimes too easy to be seduced by proprietary systems , when all that is needed is an application of existing, proven materials.
After all we're not normally fitting out a tower block.
Great videos .
Whatever works is good. Systems have come down in price and there are so many good options that I would always look at all options. The important thing is that it gives you a nice even heat.
What did he do that screed with, a tennis racquet?
Omg was not going say anything but looks like it be. Floated with a football Not good
Another fantastic project & video.......If you ever got a job 30 miles surrounding MK please let me know, I would love to come and learn from you. 👍🏽
Deal!
I’m pondering if I should go for this method griundfloor and upstairs use Infrared heating as the bedrooms are small. We will install a 3.5kwh solar system and battery. What do you guys think?
I would do exactly that. I don't like underfloor heating in bedrooms. If it goes under the bed you cook.
Well explained Roger. Can you have an wet Electric underfloor system, just like boiler fed and how economical would it be?
It costs a lot to run an electric boiler. I would go down the heat pump route if I was on electric only,
@@SkillBuilder Thanks Roger, just a question. I still have a Gas boiler, but am thinking about alternatives with our Gas supplies running low.
@@brianwood5220 - The daft thing is in England and Wales, the government is offering the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) grants available, but the heat pump must be the only source of heating to qualify !
Here's the thing. I have a 1960 house with concrete floors. Do I dig up the floors and have to move out to gain better floor insulation without increasing the floor height (big cost with renting) or do I go for a retrofit and lose a couple pf inches of ceiling and door height - your thoughts please
Rout the concrete
@@DiceandGlory but there only seems to be one company out there doing this and the solution has no insulation whatsoever. Surely no insulation goes against what this video and many other manufacturers state? Your thoughts please?
would it be better to use ready mix/mini mix screed with fibreglass in ,stronger + less likely to crack ? ( just a thought )
Yes that would be my choice. Knocking up screed in a mixer is not good.
Could u please tell me what is the screed exactly and what is the material used ?? Because i use for covering the pipe in my country with Cement mix, which consists of sand, cement and water only. Is my method correct?! I hope you answer my question as soon as possible please
Yes you can use sand and cement or liquid screed
Insightful Roger. Why not anhydrite screed like Robin used?
That stuff is great
The screed in this job was down to the builder and to be honest it wasn't great. I would prefer a flow screed but not an anhydrite screed. I have that in my kitchen and , if you talk to tilers etc they are problematic because the tile adhesives don't stick very well and they need sanding down which is a dusty process. The best flow screed is a cement based screed. The adhesive sticks well and there is no sanding down, they are also a lot more resistant to moisture which could be important if a washing machine leaks.
@@SkillBuilder thanks Roger. Great info! I am installing a new LVT click floor and need to use a self leveller. The room is 45sqm. Is there any better solution that hand mixing and pouring a latex leveller? Room is an average of 10mm out of level.
@@samposton9101 If you have never done a self leveller I would get someone in because it is not that easy. You can buy a weber liquid screed that you just agitate rather than trowel,
It is also made by Tarmac. You need some help if you do it over that area. ua-cam.com/video/-0O_Ldb70z0/v-deo.html
@@SkillBuilder thanks Roger. I’ve done my 2 bathrooms with self leveller but they are much smaller. I didn’t know if there were companies similar to Robins Southern Screed that offered a similar pumped solution to save on time. Will take a look at the video for research
Re doing an old house , which in reality as we have replaced so much should have been demolished.
Twin cascaded Heat pump going in.
Ground floor, underfloor first and second floor radiators .
Asked installer for 100 centres , however he reckons two issues with that , first radiators on the upper floors will need to much bigger and that they find the tightness of 100 spacing leads to more problems , as well as having to increase flow temperatures . Looking therefore at 150 centres .
Does this sound reasonable ? I can see why there might be issues with 100 being so tight .
The lower the water temperature the closer the pipes should be.
Thanks , that adds to efficiency and in turn to lower temperatures but it’s working out the impact on the sizing of radiators on the other two floors that becomes an issue and I assume it’s a case of where to compromise.
Anyhow thanks for all the useful vids thanks to which I have been able to more fully understand all the processes of a complete rebuild , and ensure they are not taking short cuts .
What was the screed mix?
4 to 1 sand and cement. It should have had fibres.
Quick question. I'd like under floor heating but my budget is tight. Instead of a new expensive system, could I just get rid of my radiators on the wall and connect under floor heating pipes to the pies that my radiators were connected to?
HI Luke
You can do that but it will make the floor too hot and that can cause your legs to ache. There have been many studies which suggest that a temperature of no more than 30 celcius is good for your circulation.
Not sure if this answer is a Mickey take? Regards the temperature, can I not just adjust the temperature of the water coming out of the boiler?
What's the minimum depth of screed you need over that type ?
65mm but you can reduce it with SBR and fibres. If you use a flow screed it could be as little as 35mm.
Hi Roger,
I was told by a plumber tht because I'm buying a 120+ year old small, 2 bed, 1 small bathroom mid terrace that needs new damp proof and gas bought into property from scratch that rads would be better than underfloor heating for the cos involved versus paybck in bill savings. Lounge and kitchen with concrete floor and master bed (wooden floor)are circa 11 x 10.5 ft, 2nd bed about 8x12 and bathroom (wooden floor) even smaller. Attatched sunroom/consevatory circa 8x6ft (needs renovation).
Also, I saw in the electric ufh video you used a wet screed that dried faster. I'm confused.
I'm on budget, but want to do the right thing long term as costs rise for upkeep. What say you?
Hi
Yes it doesn't make much sense hacking the floors up to put the heating in so go with the radiators. Mid terrace has two neighbours to keep you warm so it should be good.
Electric underfloor heating is tile warm up not a whole room heating. It costs a fortune to run.
@@SkillBuilder thank you. What about upstairs with wooden floors? Bathroom is sooo small.
I'm a building comtractors daughter but learned more from you. Love the videos even if not relevant to me.
How much depth would this add to my existing concrete floor?
Think the minimum was 6 cm
You can get away with as little as 35mm if you use a special screed. Cement based flow screed with fibres is good
Does that include the matting, pipes and screed?
We're having an extension to our kitchen, our house is 1910 construction and the kitchen floor is (currently) 22mm chipboard, 50mm polystyrene and then I'd say 4" or so of what seems like Limecrete(?). The Limecrete layer finishes about 3" below the outside floor level, would this be a suitable solution for UFH? As it looks to have an insulated backing, with a screed on top?
Seen a lot of the UFH videos you have done and this one is I would say the closest to what I need!
There are lots of choices for you. The easiest is to take up the chipboard and lay an insulated pipe panel. Lay the panels, push the pipe into the grooves and put back chipbard. Job done.
@@SkillBuilder thanks I think whilst I'm there I'd prefer to pull up the polystyrene and put celotex down for an increase in U value. But glad to know there isnt anything funky required for the old building
Hi, nice to meet you. I come from a Chinese geothermal material manufacturer with stable quality and reasonable price. Looking forward to working with you. I mainly produce floor heating modules, staples, floor heating reflective films, etc., and look forward to cooperating with you
👍
Why lot liquid screed ? It is much thinner, better heat conductivity plus easier installation and self leveling.
Are you selling this new builders' manly man face rejuvenating cream?
Yes we can sell you some of that. Step right up, only ten dollars, stops warts, corns and bunnions, changes your life, changes your wife, turns you into a nine year old Hindu boy. Selling out fast now don't be shy, don't be dissapointed, once in a lifetime opportunity.
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Yes keeping the pipes pressurised to a high level whilst the screed sets will mean that any future expansion due to pressure and heat will be accommodated without cracking the screed.
I have to say that experiencing my friend's underfloor heating, the rooms feelcomfortable at lower temperatures e.g. 19c feels as warm as 21c in a room heated by a radiator. Thats because the heat rises evenly ftom floor level. There are no cold spots. As stated too the water temperature need only be around 25-35c compared with 55-65c in a radiator fed system.
I would like to see how an installation is done in a wooden suspended floor.
I’m a bit confused to be honest. I seem to remember a vlog from you a while ago in which you completely rubbished underfloor heating. I think you said it wasn’t instant enough, didn’t warm up quickly enough, and didn’t cool down fast enough if it suddenly got too warm....! So which is it..? Are you for or against. What’s going on with you.
I think you are slightly misrepresenting the previous statement. I have always been a big fan of UFH but I am honest about what it can and can't do. I am not a salesman on a kick-back.
In the middle of winter it is the best thing ever but in the autumn and spring when you might need to put the heating on for an hour or two on a chilly evening or cold morning it is not the best. You might have a cold morning and a really sunny day and the heat will be in the floor when you don't need it.
This means you might have to open the window and waste that heat but on balance the cost savings over the year are still there.
@@SkillBuilder ok. Thanks for clearing that up. Keep the good stuff coming.
Rogers younger brother appearing again..
Are these mud screeds new to the UK? Used alot in u.s
No we have always done it this way but this one is not very nice. The video is about the heating not the screed but we put the footage in to complete the story.
Not really, been using them for a couple of thousand years.
@@markrainford1219 was it the Romans when they invaded. Did they bring it?
@@davidrobertson7964 What have the Romans ever done for us?
@@SkillBuilder roads,viaducts,sewage systems,trade,schools,library's...... ...... NETTLES!! before 50bc there was not one nettle in the UK. they ate them. Next time you get stung ask yourself. What 😳 did the Romans do for me? Eh! Eh!
Great info Roger, but OMG! That screed finish was awful..! Time to get the levelling compound out!!
Yes agreed
Hello boys
I'm here in Ireland with my 3 young kids I rent 3 bedrooms House House is so horrible cold 🥶 I keep tell the landlord about the house, cold but he doesn't care about it I had heater at house but not warm up house 😪
Thought I had seen this before somewhere lol
ua-cam.com/video/1BBqXQEIMNM/v-deo.html
9 years in editing, every minute worth the wait!
I thought you did not like heat pumps ! !
This sounds like a problem if you are getting it done when you are living in the house. Particularly if it’s for a kitchen.
Go away for the weekend.
@@SkillBuilder how would it then get done. 🤷♂️
Can you do one where the client wants to help . And explain why it's best not to let them . Also when they want to erect their make shift scaffolding and why that's never a good idea and why you should never let them order materials or basically do anything
Top job with the heating but I could have laid that screed better with the back of a spade !
Yes point taken
great vid. good content. but please, does anyone wear masks on construction sites in UK. thaknks
No. We're well hard.
@@grrinc WHAT???? U R WELL HARD. what does that mean?
@@MrTooTechnical it means we dont faff around with this namby pamby 'elf n safety' nonsense.
@@grrinc hey be nice. wear a mask. be safe please.
@@grrinc pay attention im too important
My Liz said hello Richard,so she did
Hi Liz
@@SkillBuilder Thanks pal! Keep her happy for a bit now you said,hi
Heat is heat, whether it comes from the underfloor or from wall mounted radiators is not much different. But if you get problems with underfloor then it will be difficult to fix. I think wall mounted radiators are a better engineering solution. Also radiator systems have stood the test of time . .
Floor heating is essentially a larger radiator allowing you to use lower temperatures and gain substantially in efficiency - and the heat is released slower and more uniformly too
Some say under floor heating makes their feet ache
That can happen, usually because the temperature is too high
Think maybe you need to find yourself a screeder. You won't get proper compaction using edges like that and the finish was terrible.
also, if u r gonna use pipe dope, please dont get it inside the pipe. why, cuz now it mixes with the water and makes a sludge inside the circulation route.
Nothing stays in that pipe when you run mains water pressure through it for the flush out.
@@SkillBuilder pipe dope don’t flush out. If it did, it would not be waterproof
This must be a school. The walls look really ugly
Not so good with electric under floor heating. Very expensive to use. Not recommended!
You're not kidding!
I would never advise anyone to heat their home with electric underfloor heating. It is a tile warm up system.