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My underfloor heating system is now over 15 years old. It really has come along way from my old 16mm pipe version. It’s by far the best thing you could have done. Not just because it is beautiful to stand on warm tiles but our heating bills are tiny compared to friends with smaller properties. The set up and balancing is still a nightmare and I could only dream of a design and flow rate diagram and manifold so easily adjusted as yours.
Great stuff, I did an almost identical job on our 1790 farmhouse in the French Alps. Having never done it before came to the same solution for the concentric pipe layout but used pex-al-pex. Was suprised how many suppliers didn't use that as default so in the end drew everything on sketchup myself to get the pipe lengths even. Had 600mm solid walls, underpinned then insulated the outside, line plastered inside and installed a double flux ventilation system. Never had an issue at all with mould or damp...7 years in. Run the UF at 28°c to 32°c keeps the house at 21 or 22° whilst it's sub zero for 3 months... Very happy. Looks like you've done a top job... Just wish you'd have posted this video 7 years ago as i wouldn't have had to do my own research...😂😂😂😂
You've aced that 👌👌 - excellent work!So basically an MVHR system? The underfloor is incredible. I've got it on about 32 degrees right now and it's heating the room effortlessly to 20 degrees and that's before I've installed the wall insulation.
@@CharlieDIYte yes MVHR your correct, sorry, double flux is the French description. It's a total faff and not cheap if you get someone to do it, so of course I did my own, but it's totally worth it, especially if you have any slight concerns regarding old walls, breathing, moisture retention etc. I have a 50m underground 200mm pipe supplying the fresh air to the unit in through the boiler utility room, so any residual heat from the pellet boiler, fridge, freezers etc add their calories to the incoming air before it's pumped into the house. Totally agree, Under floor heating is a game changer, it's utterly wonderful. Great channel, love your style, just 7 years too late for me.... But keep it up..
Just wow Charlie! Such a steep learning curve I’ll have to watch this video again to take it all in. Great job and great explanation of the process. You should be very proud of the end result
Hi Charlie, I strongly recommend that you abrade/ scarify the top layer of your screed which is referred to as the skin, this process removes the loose material, bubbles and ripples that you talked about but more importantly it help with the moisture evaporate from the screed to help in the drying process and final when you lay tiles or anti cracking mating the adhesive will have a more secure bonded to the screed but if the skin is not removed the you run the risk of the whole lot moving and losing over time.
Wow Charlie. You’ve become quite an expert on under floor heating. Superb research and consideration of all the pros and cons. I’ve definitely learned a thing or two here. I imagine you’re delighted with the result and can slowly get your home back in order. I’m looking forward to the next one. All the best for the New Year and another busy one at that I imagine. Cheers. 👍🏼
I've been doing in floor and under floor 30 years and I do it almost the opposite way to you. level the ground, lay the insulation, put the pex down on the insulation, wire mesh on top, and pour the concrete over. Then finish with whatever you wish. Works perfectly and have never had any trouble with cold spots or pipe floating up to the surface. Max 250' loops on 1/2"pipe. You likely spent double to do it your way, but it will also work fine.
Nice video I ave been installing UFH for 40 years and have seen its progress to where it is now. The big thank you on this video debunking the id that you should not run your pipes to over all area of the kitchen. The number of disagreements I have had with customer who listen to the wrong advice. Then cannot give rhyme or reason why. When been called in to investigate why a particular floor is not preforming out comes my thermal camara and surprise surprise I more oftan than not find no pipes under Island or units and or the use of 200mm centres. All lead to a uderperfoming system. If it’s too warm it can be commissioned to perform correctly including the correct setting of the programmable room stat. If it’s not warm enough you have wasted your money. To be honest I do put some blame on the competitive nature of the suppliers as it’s seen as a cost saving excercise to miss out a few hundred metres of pipe, that gives the industry a bad press. I start my next new build install first week in Feb. Good luck. Regards Michael M
I installed an underfloor water heating system because my eldest son was severely disabled and we did various stretching exercises with him on the floor. The warm floor was great for him.
Also I have seen you have a fix temperature mixing valve. They now recommend doing away with this old technology and go with the weather compensating controler such as ESBE variable control Valve. This means you don't need a wiring centre or actuators. See Urban plumbing on why to get rid of the fixed temperature valve and actuators
If you are ever doing an in depth refurb like this or new build underfloor heating is right up there on the top of the list. Coupled with an ASHP it is just amazing to live with. If well insulated it can help heat the whole house with just a few smaller rads upstairs to top up the temp when required.
Hi Charlie, I know you are busy atm but just wondered what advice you got for laying pipes other than ufh (boiler flow and return, hot water). In my case i have to run approx 9m of flow, 9m of return and 9m of hotwater pipe, from the boiler to the manifold. Im wondering should i secure this o tge concrete subfloor then lay 100mm of insulation, or lay my 100mm of insulation, then neatly gouge out insulation and slip pipes into the insulation as you appear to have done at 6.10 in this video. TIA. Also did you just spray foam around your copper pipes then tape over?
This is fascinating stuff. Had quotes for an air-source heat pump that I like the look of, but having no radiators (warm air system currently) so this is exactly the insight I was looking for. Though very unlikely to DIY it, these tips make it much easier for me to find a contractor that knows what they're talking about. Bravo and Happy New Year
If you already have a warm air system and switched to a heat pump could you keep that air system and then benefit from the fact that a heat pump could or should be able to run "in reverse" as air conditioning in the summer? Probably some challenges involved with retaining hot water in that scenario but I don't know...
@@__Ben I had planned to remove the ducting, but that is a _very_ interesting thought. Will make the install even more complicated, but as Charlie said, future-proofing is crucial - and imagine having proper AC in our ever warmer and muggier summers?! Thx
@@nicomonkeyboy I think at this point when I eventually get a property I'd at the very least air condition the main living areas and bedrooms now, would be amazing...
Great job as always! This breathable wall Charlie, I'm a little concerned that any wall containing plasterboard will not be breathable - I've been unable to find the vapor resistance of normal plasterboard tonight however. Please do ask lots of questions before fitting it and don't be afraid to go with a wood fibre and lime plaster solution if better. All the best for 2024 😊
In the end I didn't bother insulating under the units. No need IMO. I would never leave a section unheated as it will create cold spots in the room and drag the heating down - just my view 😉
We commented when you started this project and must have completed about the same time. We have a heat pump and Loxone control so that will be interesting. We recently parted with our builder but your comments on insulaton give us some concern. Our builder used 25mm PIR around the sub-base but we found most of that floated up and was removed. We have the expansion gap insulation around new walls which are very well insulated. We are not sure we really got what we wanted in that regard. For the screed we are very happy as we used the same Chemscreed solution which was very flat overall and allowed some adjustment for levels across the build.
Hey Charlie, whats your thoughts on a non insluated system that acts as thermal mass releasing the heat slowly when turned off? btw I think we live near each other...
I think the problem is, without the insulation you'll lose too much heat so you won't be able to run it at such low temperatures. You need the insulation for sure. Ha, that's interesting. Good ol' Worcestershire 👌
@6:15 where you mention the insulation height was too much, I'm assuming extra thick screed at what is now a low point is not an issue? I have variations of upto 20mm in 2 rooms. Ive identified the high points and calculated my insulation thickness at this point. I will also have a 5mm difference between the finished insulation height bewteen 2 rooms! Ill be using 16mm pipes in minimum 50mm screed, so will have 34mm miminimum coverage of the pipes. Im relying on the liquid screed to fill the low points in the insulation and leave me with a level floor 👍
Hi just wanted to know why you but the dpm below the structual screed as we have been told to put this on top of the slab and then the insualtion and slip layer and pipe as you did. The reason for this I was told as concreate takes years to fully cure and it can wick moisture into the ground. If there is a DPM below it and then the slip layer above the insulation then the contcreate slab is trapped between to barriers. Just good to get your take on this. Obviously you have to make sure you dont breach the DPC in the walls
Hiya Charlie, I'm going to be converting our integrated garage and a ground floor bedroom into an open plan kitchen diner in a 60s townhouse. The architect recommended Wunda wet system which users a 20mm thick Insulated pre routed board. Only 16mm pipe and as low hight I can use it for both garage and existing concrete floors. They did a drawing and the flow and return is not running next to each other. So this is something to think about having watched your video. I have installed my own radiators and and ran copper pipe everywhere so I'm hoping I will have the skills to install this system. The builders can do the screed. Wunda have shown no pipes under the cabinets but The underfloor heating company who also provided a quote have indicated to have the pipes everywhere to presumably avoid coldspots. I am eager to see your next video as my architects drawing shows tile adhesive directly on top of the screed. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Aaron
Thanks Aaron. All sounds good and you'll definitely have the skills to do this. With these things it's always a case of adapting to the situation. Probably won't be for a couple of months but I'll definitely be doing a vid on it. 👊
@arronharris5275 If you go with the Wunda system (or any similar foam board type overfloor system) make absolutely sure the boards adhere well to the floor with no areas of creaking or movement. We used the Wunda system you mention about 3 years ago to do our entire ground floor and initially started with their spray glue to stick the boards down, but it's really not up to the job in my opinion and is especially useless in cold room temperatures (which is obviously common with house builds/renovations when the property isn't heated) meaning boards started popping and lifting off the concrete floor within days of laying it. The Mapei board adhesive they recommend you apply like tile adhesive is better but still wasn't infallible, we ended up finding areas lifting after we'd laid the 10mm screed over top which led to movement and cracking of the screed, luckily discovered before we put the final LVT and tile flooring over top but still almost impossible to rectify without pulling it all up and starting again. Faced with tearing it up as the only other solution which wasn't viable I ended up borrowing a thermal imaging camera to identify where the pipe runs were, drilling holes between them, squirting a little adhesive down through the hole to hopefully get in under the gap then use screws and large washers to mechanically fix those areas down. This did work but no thanks to Wunda who basically blamed the install and washed their hands of it even though all their install instructions were followed.
I've since also ditched the mechanical blending valve on the manifold which also don't work very well, sometimes seeing spikes of flow temps into the manifold way higher than they should be. By far the best way to feed UFH is to have a boiler or heat pump with weather compensation and (if it also needs a second zone to run upstairs rads at higher temps) electronic mixing valves to electronically mix the right flow temperature for the floor based on the outside temperature meaning you end up with a simple flow and return pipe to the manifold that's pre-mixed to the right temperature. We've now got that with our Vaillant boiler and controls, the boiler basically runs pretty much 24/7 at very low output during winter feeding low temperature water to the floor and oversized rads which are on a separate mixing valve to get the slightly higher flow temps required. Other than for hot water cylinder heating the boiler flow temperature rarely goes above 45c unless it's really cold with the floor generally running at 25-30c flow and rads at around 40-45c. Because there's always some heat going through the system the house temperature stays incredibly consistent through the day regardless of weather temps and the best bit is despite the added comfort we use no more gas than the previous "smart" controls that basically just fired the boiler at a fixed high temperature on and off based on demand then relied on the mixing valve on the manifold to modulate the flow to the floor.
@@LocostR1 Hello, thanks so much for taking the time to write this really useful information. I had wandered how well the spray adhesive would work on a cement based surface. It would have to be dust free, bone dry and no rough patches such as air bubbles. I will have to take this into consideration as it would be a disaster if the insulation starts lifting up or creating cracks in the upper layers. Thanks again Aaron
I will try to get my head around this as its very technical and I'm just getting to grips with the system which has been specified and unsure exactly which components I would receive. Its sounds like you have experienced a lot of inconvenience but have come out the other side with a good deal of knowledge and experience! @@LocostR1
My take away: all but a DYI job ! Seems like a minefield, let's keep our fingers crossed it will last 20 or 30y, a lot of plastic in this install. Would have been interesting to have an overview of the cost for such an install, must be serious cash. I will need to look into this at some point, not looking forward to it, even though there is no question that comfort is second to none.
@@angiej4865 it's not so much the plastic pipes burried in "concrete like" that worry me. It's rather the ramp of plastiky connectors and valves. There will be adjusments, purges, bleeding etc over time, I am just hoping this will sustain the test of time. Not obvious to me. I guess relative to the overall cost of the install that's probably a detail.
Not all plastic is the same, and many of the things that age plastic, big swings in temp, UV radiation and repeated flexing will be minimised when it is encased. Also it looked like a thick walled pipe. I reckon that will last for a looooong time. What other material would you use??
@@jeromeuk The general practice and recommendation from the European manufacturers (who've been supplying this stuff for a very long time) is no joints whatsoever in the buried pipes. Also, circuits should be limited to no more than 100 metres per circuit. If you have a large room this means more than one circuit per room. Also, not all UFH pipes are equal. They vary in heat transfer capability, oxygen permiability and cost. A good supplier sells the pile cut to length (you have to allow some extra for installation, etc.). I used Ryflow (the same company used in the video) for the liquid screed installation and they are very knowledgeable and can also do a lot of the pile installation too. Costs wise, back in 2017 when I did my second full install, the manifold, fittings, pipework and individual room thermostats cost me around £1500. Screed cost for two large rooms (4.2 x 3.6m each) came in at around £1200.
Not just a good idea but absolutely essential to have a seperating membrane between the screed and the foil faced PIR insulation, the screed will dissolve the aluminium and the gases generated can weaken the screed, plus it wont comply with building regulations without the membrane being there.
It's saves a lot of money, keeps longer temperature , is more healthy. Very good idea you invest in your property. Shame UK is wake after years to upgrade houses .
Thank you for that insight, it was very thought provoking because I would like to know if it would be possible to do a similar system with my Stove Boiler (which is only used in winter), and perhaps at some later point, updating that too, to be able incorporate a SunAmp heat battery in the future, but do it in a way that it can be future proofed.
Thanks for the video Charlie. Love your channel and this is a particularly useful video for me as I would like to install something similar in a similarly old building. What has kept me up at night is how the walls below the floor are able to breathe and release moisture once the floor is installed directly up to them. Is there a risk of wicking up the insulation and crossing the DPM? Yours or other people thoughts welcome.
Thanks Stephen. That's the job of the damp proof course. I don't have one in my old place but did get it injected back in 2010 when we moved in. I think as long as your levels outside are low enough you should be able to manage the damp with or without a damp course. The floor used to be very cold and damp particularly in the corners. Putting the damp membrane below the screed has made a massive difference and if you're worried you could always continue it up the wall.
I have a 1950's bungalow and I really like the idea of installing UFH while we gut, rewire, re-plumb and re-decorate. However the floor is concrete, I've seen videos and information that state you can lay an insulated board that the UFH pipes lay in and it has a surface "diffuser plates" that help spread the heat upwards from the pipes. Would you recommend this setup or is it a case where if I want UFH then I'll have to excavate the entire floor and start again?
First thing you should do is remove that mixing valve/ pump from manifold and suply system with proper lower temperature ,your boiler will save energy by working on lower temperatures.
No because it would be too fragile to survive under the slab - where you typically have type 1 MOT to compact and level the surface before the concrete. Also you only want the heat going into the screed otherwise you're heating too large a slab which wouldn't be as efficient.
Hi Charlie, What an excellent video. I'm in the process of trying to work out if it is better to buy an older property and do the underfloor heating myself (do it myself or get a professional in), or to buy a property with it already installed. The question is how reliable are the new builds now-a-days?
Thanks Paula. I think it all depends how close together they laid the pipes and therefore how efficient it is. Also if you buy an existing and don't like the lay out of the kitchen for example, you might have loads of cold spots if you move the units assuming they haven't laid pipes under the units. However it's very expensive to retrofit!
I agree the manifold position by Polypipe could have been better, the cupboard would have been perfect, The manifold was meh nothing special and, I personally wouldnt want heating under kitchen units for numerous reasons, regardless of insulation. Charlie having used those caps in the past, I'll stick to my trusted keyring, happy New Year my friend hope to do more in the future.
Thanks for this series. I’m planning on doing a similar scheme in a (very cold) 1970’s house next year so watching intently… I’ll look forward to the next update.
You're very welcome. By far the most expensive part of it is the excavation and prep. The actual kit cost just over a grand with the small discount I was given. But the screed was nearly double that, as was the concrete slab and of course the builders fees. I'll try and get a video out on the costs at some point. It probably isn't worth it cost wise but in terms of creating a lovely warm environment, future proofing for heat pumps etc it's worth the cost.
I did wonder if we'll see a heat pump vid in a year or two. I was looking out for signs of a ground-source circuit being laid when you had the digger in the garden.
Brilliant. I remember seeing the video ages ago. Glad to see part 2. Did you pay the VAT on the materials and the work by the consultant with it being a DIY job?
fantastic explanation as usual. Well done. Your busy with so many improvements maybe the next video should be about where you get the time and money from ;-) atb
Thanks, I really appreciate that. It's a good idea. Just not sure how many people would watch it 😉 The time comes from doing this full time. The money is the problem. We're pretty skint right now but after living in the house for 13 years with so much wrong with it we decided to bite the bullet.
Great video, im installing electric heated flooring for the 1st time, I noticed the thermostat for it is about 2x the price as a regular thermostat, not sure why
Because it needs to be rated for the power draw of the floor not just a low current switch. Resistive heating for a floor will be ridiculously expensive to run.
Fantastic video. Bet you’re glad you have a floor now! I’m guessing the downsides to this system is the time it takes to heat up the house? Whereas with rads you can warm up a room quite quickly the floor will take longer. But I’m guessing it’s going to hold the heat massively too. So overall more efficient? Also no wall space taken up by rads too haha
We have underfloor heating in our house upstairs and down...Best way to run it is have it on all the time, have downstairs stats set at 22 and upstairs at 19, heating kicks in if they drop 1 degree, only takes 30 mins to bring back up to temp. Initial warm will take a while but quick after that.
We have ufh in one room - 11mx4.45m. We set it to a minimum of 13c after 22.00 then it clicks on after 06.30, with a max of 19c throughout the day. It usually only drops 3-4c per night in the winter. It takes circa 1 hour per c to heat (if pipes are cold). We have 100mm insulation with a 70mm screed with vinyl on top. 40c flow temperature on mixer. The heat is very clean/natural, rather than the blast of a series of radiators, you also have warm feet, which is a nice feeling.
I fitted underfloor heating at my house years ago and used hardcore sand blinding dpm 10" slab 100mm kingspan and heating pipe and screed ... does it comply with todays regs ?
Great Video Charlie, loving the content on this renovation keep up the good work 👍👍 Hi Charlie just to add to this? Your discord forum, can this be used for me to discuss questions I have with other members of I have a DIy question to ask?
Thanks for the video, I'm currently planning and costing this job and the slab in an old cottage so a similar situation to yours. Limecrete or concrete...hmmm. I have reached out to Jim's company for a quote but did you consider nu-heat and how did you select your UFH supplier? Thanks
You're welcome. I tell you, that room is so toasty warm right now and I haven't insulated the walls yet. I thought about nuheat but in the end, I gave it to Jim because he reached out, and gave me such good advice.
What brand of boiler do you have. A lot of them have a module available in Europe (the Netherlands in particular) to allow open therm integration and they will work with UK boilers.
Hi Charlie, great video and quick question regarding the upstands you used. They 25mm thick and what height did you cut them off at? am I right in saying height of PIR board (100mm) plus the height of screed at 50mm, so were your upstands a total of 150mm. Thanks and keep the videos coming
QUESTION: I have been umming and arring about whether to DPM or breathable on my underfloor heating system in my 200 sandstone cottage. I have seen a few videos online where people have installed DPM under a concrete floor and the damp has travelled horizontally under the DPM to the edge of the slab and crept into and up the walls straddling the concrete slab/screed. Would you so a video with a thermal imaging camera to see if your DPM has done something similar in your cottage? P.S Your videos have been a god send for my DIY project on my old cottage.
My screed was layed 49 hours ago. Couldnt stay out any longer lol. Popped my head in yesterday,literally just my head, and the heat felt like getting off the plane in Tenerife. Anyway, how quickly did you start trimming expansion edge tape and door expansion strips? PS. I would not recommend laminon. Strips are too thin, taping is a nightmare. We ran out and the final 10m² i used 500 gauge black plastic. Far less taping and hassle. I can see the advantage of the grid pattern, but in all honesty, a tape measure and a length of timber would achieve the same thing. Just my honest opinion.
Great job, Charlie. It looks as if your house will be nearly ready for a high efficiency heat pump install (although you may need to change the manifold to remove mixers and the actuators). Have you considered using an MCS umbrella scheme (for the £7,500 government grant) and doing the install yourself? Out of curiosity, was there a reason you didn't use MLCP pipe(e.g. PEX-Al-PEX) on the 22mm run from manifold to existing system? That might have saved a load of copper bending, although I suppose some people find that therapeutic!
Thanks. Yes we should hopefully be ready for a heat pump when the time comes. I was thinking exactly that myself recently about that pipe run. Don't know why I didn't use plastic - as it would also have removed the need for that join under the floor. Also I'm slightly gutted I didn't put the manifold in the cupboard - would have made so much more sense and removed the need for that pipe run. Still you live and learn. 👊
@@CharlieDIYte I am moving towards the perspective that MLCP pipe is easier to use and cheaper than copper, and produces join-free work. The only downside is the cost of crimp fittings and tooling, although there are now U-profile manual crips for around £70. Ideal for DIY-ers, if only we knew about it. Hindsight regarding the manifold location is a wonderful thing, but equally pushing a project forwards is very important. Thanks for sharing your introspection.
Not significantly. They're pushed down tight into it. I think they would if you were using an eco insulation layer where the arrows in the clips don't have anything to anchor into.
Great job but personally i would have put a limecrete floor with foamglas insulation as you have solid walls. Risk of damp pushing up walls as cant escape. Otherwise looks good.
Looking for advice just purchased a bungalow built 1960s electric underfloor heating. Do I keep it or dig it up and install insulated wet underfloor heating 100ms floor area
You've got 2 issues with that electric system. 1. Electric systems cost a fortune to run and 2. insulation below the system will be non existent in a 1960s install - which in turn contributes to 1. Have you experimented with the system? Cost, efficiency etc? That was very innovative installing that in the 60s.
@@CharlieDIYte getting the key’s and of month the room stats look of the time of installation the roof area looks good for double aspect solar, the walls have cavity but no insulation. Won’t to make the house as economically to run as possible without costing a fortune I have no idea the cost of digging the floor area up and installing a better insulated floor could I just install wet underfloor heating on top of the existing floor with minimal insulation so as not to lose height and have to cut to much of the doors, O and we live on an Scottish island.
Hi there please help. The fan in my bathroom was pumping steam etc into my lift space for a couple of months until I got a new fan fitted. I now have mold growing all over my loft. What should I do now 😢😢😢???
Does anyone know how to calculate the head side of a pump for UFH application? My understanding is the pressure loss show in the installation table later in this video shows in Pa the equivalent of head loss. So 20,000 Pa is equivalent to 2m of head loss. Is that right? It so when all circuits are open in this installation what size pump would be required? I currently have a 6m pump and it’s not enough. I have 11 circuits, most ~100mm 16mm
You didn't talk about the type of pipe you used. Polypipe would have been a 15mm system you went with a European 16mm system. You didn't mention that your pipes are barrier pipes. I assume they are. You can also get multi layer pipes such as Pex-Al-Pex and Pex-Al-Hdpe. Whilst those are harder to lay, they are stronger and built better.
Are you not concerned that the system has been designed for 35° flow but at what outside temperature? If you have it set to 35° now at 8° outside and only achieving 19° inside (which is quite cold) then at -2° you will need closer to 45° flow temperature I would guess and does your system achieve this? My UFH flow is set for 45° at -2° outside temperature with weather compensation.
Don't forget I've got the room thermostats at 19 right now. I can bump them up to 22 and it'll simply mean the system is on a bit longer but at the same flow temp and when I've insulated the walls the demands on the system will be even less. The temp in that TV room is consistently around 25 so I actually need to adjust down the auto balancing valves in there I suspect.
I'm loving them, mate - I don't think you'd regret it. Decent life on the batteries and I like the fact the dual charger charges both batteries at once which is more than can be said for my Ryobi multi charger station! The impact driver with its multiple settings is particularly good and the SW1E3540CA multi material saw (basically a mini circular saw) that I used in this vid ua-cam.com/video/o4p3vRirksc/v-deo.html is a fantastic little tool. There are a couple of tools not available in the UK yet, like the RH1E 3851 20v SDS and the random orbit sander, but they have a good old range at Screwfix.
Is the screed anhydrate based? How was the process of removing the laitence if so? any concerns of having difficulty of flooring not binding? Great video once again, really insightful 👍
@@CharlieDIYte very interested in the wall video! We will be putting that system in when we start the next bedroom. We used ‘ecological building systems’ suspended floor insulation detail for our living room, and your timber floor suppler for the floor finish 👍🏻
Thanks Richard. I'll do a vid on the cost. The kit itself was about £1400. What makes these systems really expensive to retrofit is the cost of excavation, insulating etc.
@@CharlieDIYte Tried and tested a few and agree the majority are awful. I have a fantastic one and get it for you for £175. That thing you're using is the worse i have used. Uponors old gun used to be very good but they stopped making it but can occasionally be found on ebay.
The flow rate for underfloor heating is far greater than a radiator system .that is because to heat the same are you need more flow for lower water temperature
There is sound, the problem is that the video has only processed to 360p so far and on some clients (usually mobile?) Audio doesn't work on that quality level for a few hours after upload.
Haha... it took all of 20 seconds and I'm going: "nah - radiators for me" 🤣 Just can't see how this is possible if your family is actually living and working in the house during all the work.
Is there any way to contact you, I would love to pick your brains regarding my system, which is also a wet ufh running off a combi that I think could be made more efficient.
The problem with any encapsulated system is you can’t know what is going on , copper pipes run under suspended floors always have the opportunity for inspection and repair . But of course this tends to come at the price of thermal efficiency , so we find ourselves in a difficult position . Greater efficiency over less efficient systems as in radiators , and again here is the main stumbling block . Systems that rely on radiators irrespective of how large the radiators are need a far higher water temperature than under floor systems require , this ultimately dictates how the water is heated . And this primarily aspect can open a whole can of worms , so at this point I feel disinclined to venture into the world of heat pumps , and the for and against such technologies .
This system is so much more efficient than the old radiator. The TV room stat is currently set to 17 degrees and the temperature in there is 20. It was quite a difficult room to heat before, with it's tile floor sitting on dirt and then one rad.
Hi Charlie indeed your old system was far from perfect , and I’m sure this is the best solution for your remodelling . One thing I have noticed even on new builds , an approach that uses under floor heating on the ground floor then opting for radiators on the upstairs . Thanks for taking the time to reply . Kind regards as always 👍
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My underfloor heating system is now over 15 years old. It really has come along way from my old 16mm pipe version. It’s by far the best thing you could have done. Not just because it is beautiful to stand on warm tiles but our heating bills are tiny compared to friends with smaller properties. The set up and balancing is still a nightmare and I could only dream of a design and flow rate diagram and manifold so easily adjusted as yours.
What a legend Jim is 😊 wow you never fail to amaze me Charlie taking on these projects and completing them so well.
I love your videos as well Karl
@gregp1707 Thank you Greg 😊
Thanks mate. Hope all's well with you guys 👊
@CharlieDIYte Cheers mate we are well thanks 😊
Great stuff, I did an almost identical job on our 1790 farmhouse in the French Alps. Having never done it before came to the same solution for the concentric pipe layout but used pex-al-pex. Was suprised how many suppliers didn't use that as default so in the end drew everything on sketchup myself to get the pipe lengths even.
Had 600mm solid walls, underpinned then insulated the outside, line plastered inside and installed a double flux ventilation system. Never had an issue at all with mould or damp...7 years in. Run the UF at 28°c to 32°c keeps the house at 21 or 22° whilst it's sub zero for 3 months... Very happy.
Looks like you've done a top job... Just wish you'd have posted this video 7 years ago as i wouldn't have had to do my own research...😂😂😂😂
You've aced that 👌👌 - excellent work!So basically an MVHR system? The underfloor is incredible. I've got it on about 32 degrees right now and it's heating the room effortlessly to 20 degrees and that's before I've installed the wall insulation.
@@CharlieDIYte yes MVHR your correct, sorry, double flux is the French description. It's a total faff and not cheap if you get someone to do it, so of course I did my own, but it's totally worth it, especially if you have any slight concerns regarding old walls, breathing, moisture retention etc. I have a 50m underground 200mm pipe supplying the fresh air to the unit in through the boiler utility room, so any residual heat from the pellet boiler, fridge, freezers etc add their calories to the incoming air before it's pumped into the house.
Totally agree, Under floor heating is a game changer, it's utterly wonderful.
Great channel, love your style, just 7 years too late for me.... But keep it up..
I've used Ryflow on my last two installs and couldn't be happier with the service. Very skilled and highly knowledgeable crew.
Just wow Charlie! Such a steep learning curve I’ll have to watch this video again to take it all in. Great job and great explanation of the process. You should be very proud of the end result
Hi Charlie, I strongly recommend that you abrade/ scarify the top layer of your screed which is referred to as the skin, this process removes the loose material, bubbles and ripples that you talked about but more importantly it help with the moisture evaporate from the screed to help in the drying process and final when you lay tiles or anti cracking mating the adhesive will have a more secure bonded to the screed but if the skin is not removed the you run the risk of the whole lot moving and losing over time.
Wow Charlie. You’ve become quite an expert on under floor heating. Superb research and consideration of all the pros and cons. I’ve definitely learned a thing or two here. I imagine you’re delighted with the result and can slowly get your home back in order. I’m looking forward to the next one. All the best for the New Year and another busy one at that I imagine. Cheers. 👍🏼
I've been doing in floor and under floor 30 years and I do it almost the opposite way to you. level the ground, lay the insulation, put the pex down on the insulation, wire mesh on top, and pour the concrete over. Then finish with whatever you wish. Works perfectly and have never had any trouble with cold spots or pipe floating up to the surface. Max 250' loops on 1/2"pipe. You likely spent double to do it your way, but it will also work fine.
Nice video I ave been installing UFH for 40 years and have seen its progress to where it is now. The big thank you on this video debunking the id that you should not run your pipes to over all area of the kitchen. The number of disagreements I have had with customer who listen to the wrong advice. Then cannot give rhyme or reason why. When been called in to investigate why a particular floor is not preforming out comes my thermal camara and surprise surprise I more oftan than not find no pipes under Island or units and or the use of 200mm centres. All lead to a uderperfoming system. If it’s too warm it can be commissioned to perform correctly including the correct setting of the programmable room stat. If it’s not warm enough you have wasted your money. To be honest I do put some blame on the competitive nature of the suppliers as it’s seen as a cost saving excercise to miss out a few hundred metres of pipe, that gives the industry a bad press. I start my next new build install first week in Feb. Good luck.
Regards Michael M
I installed an underfloor water heating system because my eldest son was severely disabled and we did various stretching exercises with him on the floor. The warm floor was great for him.
Jim & the team at E Tupling are the best in the business ♥
The layers and details are really carefully built. Lots of care taken, which will serve you well. Nice.
Thanks again Charlie, I've taken advice directly from your video.
I've bought some Laminon as a result.
Good work. Also here's the final update ua-cam.com/video/XX62NGoRZdI/v-deo.htmlsi=Rcl3ubKxy1FR5TSL 👊
Also I have seen you have a fix temperature mixing valve. They now recommend doing away with this old technology and go with the weather compensating controler such as ESBE variable control Valve. This means you don't need a wiring centre or actuators. See Urban plumbing on why to get rid of the fixed temperature valve and actuators
If you are ever doing an in depth refurb like this or new build underfloor heating is right up there on the top of the list. Coupled with an ASHP it is just amazing to live with. If well insulated it can help heat the whole house with just a few smaller rads upstairs to top up the temp when required.
Hi Charlie, I know you are busy atm but just wondered what advice you got for laying pipes other than ufh (boiler flow and return, hot water). In my case i have to run approx 9m of flow, 9m of return and 9m of hotwater pipe, from the boiler to the manifold. Im wondering should i secure this o tge concrete subfloor then lay 100mm of insulation, or lay my 100mm of insulation, then neatly gouge out insulation and slip pipes into the insulation as you appear to have done at 6.10 in this video. TIA.
Also did you just spray foam around your copper pipes then tape over?
This is fascinating stuff. Had quotes for an air-source heat pump that I like the look of, but having no radiators (warm air system currently) so this is exactly the insight I was looking for. Though very unlikely to DIY it, these tips make it much easier for me to find a contractor that knows what they're talking about. Bravo and Happy New Year
If you already have a warm air system and switched to a heat pump could you keep that air system and then benefit from the fact that a heat pump could or should be able to run "in reverse" as air conditioning in the summer?
Probably some challenges involved with retaining hot water in that scenario but I don't know...
@@__Ben I had planned to remove the ducting, but that is a _very_ interesting thought. Will make the install even more complicated, but as Charlie said, future-proofing is crucial - and imagine having proper AC in our ever warmer and muggier summers?! Thx
@@nicomonkeyboy I think at this point when I eventually get a property I'd at the very least air condition the main living areas and bedrooms now, would be amazing...
Great job as always! This breathable wall Charlie, I'm a little concerned that any wall containing plasterboard will not be breathable - I've been unable to find the vapor resistance of normal plasterboard tonight however. Please do ask lots of questions before fitting it and don't be afraid to go with a wood fibre and lime plaster solution if better. All the best for 2024 😊
Great videos 👍 didn't realise a floor plan was needed for the UFH
Need to get that sorted asap
Well done Jim for saving the day.
Yep he's been great. 👌
Fantastic video, amazing to see this documented. Nice one Charl
Thanks so much 👊
Thanks for a really great video. perfect timing too as I'm about to start my UFH project. Subscribed!
Thanks for subscribing and great to have you on board 👌👊
No mention of the pipes under the kitchen units. I would be very happy to know how you insulated them if you did.
In the end I didn't bother insulating under the units. No need IMO. I would never leave a section unheated as it will create cold spots in the room and drag the heating down - just my view 😉
We commented when you started this project and must have completed about the same time. We have a heat pump and Loxone control so that will be interesting. We recently parted with our builder but your comments on insulaton give us some concern. Our builder used 25mm PIR around the sub-base but we found most of that floated up and was removed. We have the expansion gap insulation around new walls which are very well insulated. We are not sure we really got what we wanted in that regard. For the screed we are very happy as we used the same Chemscreed solution which was very flat overall and allowed some adjustment for levels across the build.
class work Charlie got a wet under floor heating to put in my house I removed all the old wooden floors last year
will be a good video to watch about moving the water main pipe.
Hey Charlie, whats your thoughts on a non insluated system that acts as thermal mass releasing the heat slowly when turned off? btw I think we live near each other...
I think the problem is, without the insulation you'll lose too much heat so you won't be able to run it at such low temperatures. You need the insulation for sure. Ha, that's interesting. Good ol' Worcestershire 👌
Brilliant as always. Thanks for explaining in detail. Looks fantastic.
@6:15 where you mention the insulation height was too much, I'm assuming extra thick screed at what is now a low point is not an issue? I have variations of upto 20mm in 2 rooms. Ive identified the high points and calculated my insulation thickness at this point. I will also have a 5mm difference between the finished insulation height bewteen 2 rooms!
Ill be using 16mm pipes in minimum 50mm screed, so will have 34mm miminimum coverage of the pipes. Im relying on the liquid screed to fill the low points in the insulation and leave me with a level floor 👍
Very good and comprehensive video Charlie, shame you kept butting in when Jim was explaining the flow details 😮
Incredible video, just what I’ve been looking for! You get a subscriber 👍
Hi just wanted to know why you but the dpm below the structual screed as we have been told to put this on top of the slab and then the insualtion and slip layer and pipe as you did. The reason for this I was told as concreate takes years to fully cure and it can wick moisture into the ground. If there is a DPM below it and then the slip layer above the insulation then the contcreate slab is trapped between to barriers. Just good to get your take on this. Obviously you have to make sure you dont breach the DPC in the walls
Been looking forward to this one for quite a while now. Great stuff Charlie!
Hiya Charlie, I'm going to be converting our integrated garage and a ground floor bedroom into an open plan kitchen diner in a 60s townhouse. The architect recommended Wunda wet system which users a 20mm thick Insulated pre routed board. Only 16mm pipe and as low hight I can use it for both garage and existing concrete floors. They did a drawing and the flow and return is not running next to each other. So this is something to think about having watched your video. I have installed my own radiators and and ran copper pipe everywhere so I'm hoping I will have the skills to install this system. The builders can do the screed. Wunda have shown no pipes under the cabinets but The underfloor heating company who also provided a quote have indicated to have the pipes everywhere to presumably avoid coldspots. I am eager to see your next video as my architects drawing shows tile adhesive directly on top of the screed. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Aaron
Thanks Aaron. All sounds good and you'll definitely have the skills to do this. With these things it's always a case of adapting to the situation. Probably won't be for a couple of months but I'll definitely be doing a vid on it. 👊
@arronharris5275 If you go with the Wunda system (or any similar foam board type overfloor system) make absolutely sure the boards adhere well to the floor with no areas of creaking or movement. We used the Wunda system you mention about 3 years ago to do our entire ground floor and initially started with their spray glue to stick the boards down, but it's really not up to the job in my opinion and is especially useless in cold room temperatures (which is obviously common with house builds/renovations when the property isn't heated) meaning boards started popping and lifting off the concrete floor within days of laying it. The Mapei board adhesive they recommend you apply like tile adhesive is better but still wasn't infallible, we ended up finding areas lifting after we'd laid the 10mm screed over top which led to movement and cracking of the screed, luckily discovered before we put the final LVT and tile flooring over top but still almost impossible to rectify without pulling it all up and starting again.
Faced with tearing it up as the only other solution which wasn't viable I ended up borrowing a thermal imaging camera to identify where the pipe runs were, drilling holes between them, squirting a little adhesive down through the hole to hopefully get in under the gap then use screws and large washers to mechanically fix those areas down. This did work but no thanks to Wunda who basically blamed the install and washed their hands of it even though all their install instructions were followed.
I've since also ditched the mechanical blending valve on the manifold which also don't work very well, sometimes seeing spikes of flow temps into the manifold way higher than they should be. By far the best way to feed UFH is to have a boiler or heat pump with weather compensation and (if it also needs a second zone to run upstairs rads at higher temps) electronic mixing valves to electronically mix the right flow temperature for the floor based on the outside temperature meaning you end up with a simple flow and return pipe to the manifold that's pre-mixed to the right temperature. We've now got that with our Vaillant boiler and controls, the boiler basically runs pretty much 24/7 at very low output during winter feeding low temperature water to the floor and oversized rads which are on a separate mixing valve to get the slightly higher flow temps required. Other than for hot water cylinder heating the boiler flow temperature rarely goes above 45c unless it's really cold with the floor generally running at 25-30c flow and rads at around 40-45c. Because there's always some heat going through the system the house temperature stays incredibly consistent through the day regardless of weather temps and the best bit is despite the added comfort we use no more gas than the previous "smart" controls that basically just fired the boiler at a fixed high temperature on and off based on demand then relied on the mixing valve on the manifold to modulate the flow to the floor.
@@LocostR1 Hello, thanks so much for taking the time to write this really useful information. I had wandered how well the spray adhesive would work on a cement based surface. It would have to be dust free, bone dry and no rough patches such as air bubbles. I will have to take this into consideration as it would be a disaster if the insulation starts lifting up or creating cracks in the upper layers. Thanks again Aaron
I will try to get my head around this as its very technical and I'm just getting to grips with the system which has been specified and unsure exactly which components I would receive. Its sounds like you have experienced a lot of inconvenience but have come out the other side with a good deal of knowledge and experience! @@LocostR1
Thanks for sharing, Charlie, and Happy New Year!
Great clip and very informative
My take away: all but a DYI job ! Seems like a minefield, let's keep our fingers crossed it will last 20 or 30y, a lot of plastic in this install. Would have been interesting to have an overview of the cost for such an install, must be serious cash. I will need to look into this at some point, not looking forward to it, even though there is no question that comfort is second to none.
Interesting comment. I had plastic piped UFH installed in my self build in 1998. I wonder if they've got wet feet there...
@@angiej4865 it's not so much the plastic pipes burried in "concrete like" that worry me. It's rather the ramp of plastiky connectors and valves. There will be adjusments, purges, bleeding etc over time, I am just hoping this will sustain the test of time. Not obvious to me. I guess relative to the overall cost of the install that's probably a detail.
Not all plastic is the same, and many of the things that age plastic, big swings in temp, UV radiation and repeated flexing will be minimised when it is encased. Also it looked like a thick walled pipe. I reckon that will last for a looooong time. What other material would you use??
You don't know what you're talking about, speak to an expert.
@@jeromeuk The general practice and recommendation from the European manufacturers (who've been supplying this stuff for a very long time) is no joints whatsoever in the buried pipes. Also, circuits should be limited to no more than 100 metres per circuit. If you have a large room this means more than one circuit per room.
Also, not all UFH pipes are equal. They vary in heat transfer capability, oxygen permiability and cost. A good supplier sells the pile cut to length (you have to allow some extra for installation, etc.).
I used Ryflow (the same company used in the video) for the liquid screed installation and they are very knowledgeable and can also do a lot of the pile installation too.
Costs wise, back in 2017 when I did my second full install, the manifold, fittings, pipework and individual room thermostats cost me around £1500. Screed cost for two large rooms (4.2 x 3.6m each) came in at around £1200.
Not just a good idea but absolutely essential to have a seperating membrane between the screed and the foil faced PIR insulation, the screed will dissolve the aluminium and the gases generated can weaken the screed, plus it wont comply with building regulations without the membrane being there.
It's saves a lot of money, keeps longer temperature , is more healthy. Very good idea you invest in your property. Shame UK is wake after years to upgrade houses .
Thank you for that insight, it was very thought provoking because I would like to know if it would be possible to do a similar system with my Stove Boiler (which is only used in winter), and perhaps at some later point, updating that too, to be able incorporate a SunAmp heat battery in the future, but do it in a way that it can be future proofed.
Thanks for the video Charlie. Love your channel and this is a particularly useful video for me as I would like to install something similar in a similarly old building. What has kept me up at night is how the walls below the floor are able to breathe and release moisture once the floor is installed directly up to them. Is there a risk of wicking up the insulation and crossing the DPM? Yours or other people thoughts welcome.
Thanks Stephen. That's the job of the damp proof course. I don't have one in my old place but did get it injected back in 2010 when we moved in. I think as long as your levels outside are low enough you should be able to manage the damp with or without a damp course. The floor used to be very cold and damp particularly in the corners. Putting the damp membrane below the screed has made a massive difference and if you're worried you could always continue it up the wall.
I have a 1950's bungalow and I really like the idea of installing UFH while we gut, rewire, re-plumb and re-decorate. However the floor is concrete, I've seen videos and information that state you can lay an insulated board that the UFH pipes lay in and it has a surface "diffuser plates" that help spread the heat upwards from the pipes.
Would you recommend this setup or is it a case where if I want UFH then I'll have to excavate the entire floor and start again?
That overlay is a good option 👍
Impressive work Charlie
First thing you should do is remove that mixing valve/ pump from manifold and suply system with proper lower temperature ,your boiler will save energy by working on lower temperatures.
Should 100mm Celotex insulation should go beneath the concrete slab. Not the screed, the slab. So effectively it's a warm slab?
No because it would be too fragile to survive under the slab - where you typically have type 1 MOT to compact and level the surface before the concrete. Also you only want the heat going into the screed otherwise you're heating too large a slab which wouldn't be as efficient.
Hi Charlie, What an excellent video. I'm in the process of trying to work out if it is better to buy an older property and do the underfloor heating myself (do it myself or get a professional in), or to buy a property with it already installed. The question is how reliable are the new builds now-a-days?
Thanks Paula. I think it all depends how close together they laid the pipes and therefore how efficient it is. Also if you buy an existing and don't like the lay out of the kitchen for example, you might have loads of cold spots if you move the units assuming they haven't laid pipes under the units. However it's very expensive to retrofit!
I agree the manifold position by Polypipe could have been better, the cupboard would have been perfect, The manifold was meh nothing special and, I personally wouldnt want heating under kitchen units for numerous reasons, regardless of insulation. Charlie having used those caps in the past, I'll stick to my trusted keyring, happy New Year my friend hope to do more in the future.
You too. Really appreciate your help on this 👊
Thanks for this series. I’m planning on doing a similar scheme in a (very cold) 1970’s house next year so watching intently… I’ll look forward to the next update.
You're very welcome. By far the most expensive part of it is the excavation and prep. The actual kit cost just over a grand with the small discount I was given. But the screed was nearly double that, as was the concrete slab and of course the builders fees. I'll try and get a video out on the costs at some point. It probably isn't worth it cost wise but in terms of creating a lovely warm environment, future proofing for heat pumps etc it's worth the cost.
I did wonder if we'll see a heat pump vid in a year or two. I was looking out for signs of a ground-source circuit being laid when you had the digger in the garden.
Brilliant. I remember seeing the video ages ago. Glad to see part 2. Did you pay the VAT on the materials and the work by the consultant with it being a DIY job?
Afraid so. It's a benefit in kind so can't put this sort of stuff through the business.
fantastic explanation as usual. Well done. Your busy with so many improvements maybe the next video should be about where you get the time and money from ;-) atb
Thanks, I really appreciate that. It's a good idea. Just not sure how many people would watch it 😉 The time comes from doing this full time. The money is the problem. We're pretty skint right now but after living in the house for 13 years with so much wrong with it we decided to bite the bullet.
Great video, im installing electric heated flooring for the 1st time, I noticed the thermostat for it is about 2x the price as a regular thermostat, not sure why
Because it needs to be rated for the power draw of the floor not just a low current switch. Resistive heating for a floor will be ridiculously expensive to run.
Im glad you showed how tricky it was handling the pipes..did you get any kinks at all?
No kinks. You just have to be a bit careful on the bends not to make them too tight as that's the point they're most likely to kink.
Can you install UFH on ground floors that have a cellar underneath and on floors above the ground floor (e.g. upstairs)?
Yes absolutely. Depending on the nature of the floor - concrete slab, timber etc you just choose a system to suit.
Nice video Charlie! Thanks for always sharing with us' and Happy New Year!💖👍😎JP
Future proofing for a heat pump, very wise!
Weather compensation is the answer to your minimum cycling, maximum efficiency question!
Is this everyone first time on UA-cam. Come on guys!
Thanks Charlie. Welcome to 2024. Take care & stay safe.
Fantastic video. Bet you’re glad you have a floor now! I’m guessing the downsides to this system is the time it takes to heat up the house? Whereas with rads you can warm up a room quite quickly the floor will take longer. But I’m guessing it’s going to hold the heat massively too. So overall more efficient? Also no wall space taken up by rads too haha
We have underfloor heating in our house upstairs and down...Best way to run it is have it on all the time, have downstairs stats set at 22 and upstairs at 19, heating kicks in if they drop 1 degree, only takes 30 mins to bring back up to temp. Initial warm will take a while but quick after that.
We have ufh in one room - 11mx4.45m. We set it to a minimum of 13c after 22.00 then it clicks on after 06.30, with a max of 19c throughout the day. It usually only drops 3-4c per night in the winter. It takes circa 1 hour per c to heat (if pipes are cold).
We have 100mm insulation with a 70mm screed with vinyl on top. 40c flow temperature on mixer.
The heat is very clean/natural, rather than the blast of a series of radiators, you also have warm feet, which is a nice feeling.
I fitted underfloor heating at my house years ago and used hardcore sand blinding dpm 10" slab 100mm kingspan and heating pipe and screed ... does it comply with todays regs ?
Great Video Charlie, loving the content on this renovation keep up the good work 👍👍
Hi Charlie just to add to this? Your discord forum, can this be used for me to discuss questions I have with other members of I have a DIy question to ask?
Thanks for the video, I'm currently planning and costing this job and the slab in an old cottage so a similar situation to yours. Limecrete or concrete...hmmm. I have reached out to Jim's company for a quote but did you consider nu-heat and how did you select your UFH supplier? Thanks
You're welcome. I tell you, that room is so toasty warm right now and I haven't insulated the walls yet. I thought about nuheat but in the end, I gave it to Jim because he reached out, and gave me such good advice.
Great video, thanks Charlie
Charlie you are a rock star. Great video, excellent install!
What brand of boiler do you have. A lot of them have a module available in Europe (the Netherlands in particular) to allow open therm integration and they will work with UK boilers.
Hi Charlie, great video and quick question regarding the upstands you used. They 25mm thick and what height did you cut them off at? am I right in saying height of PIR board (100mm) plus the height of screed at 50mm, so were your upstands a total of 150mm. Thanks and keep the videos coming
QUESTION: I have been umming and arring about whether to DPM or breathable on my underfloor heating system in my 200 sandstone cottage. I have seen a few videos online where people have installed DPM under a concrete floor and the damp has travelled horizontally under the DPM to the edge of the slab and crept into and up the walls straddling the concrete slab/screed. Would you so a video with a thermal imaging camera to see if your DPM has done something similar in your cottage?
P.S Your videos have been a god send for my DIY project on my old cottage.
Those auto balancing valves look like TRVs minus the head.
My screed was layed 49 hours ago. Couldnt stay out any longer lol.
Popped my head in yesterday,literally just my head, and the heat felt like getting off the plane in Tenerife.
Anyway, how quickly did you start trimming expansion edge tape and door expansion strips?
PS. I would not recommend laminon. Strips are too thin, taping is a nightmare. We ran out and the final 10m² i used 500 gauge black plastic. Far less taping and hassle.
I can see the advantage of the grid pattern, but in all honesty, a tape measure and a length of timber would achieve the same thing. Just my honest opinion.
Great job, Charlie. It looks as if your house will be nearly ready for a high efficiency heat pump install (although you may need to change the manifold to remove mixers and the actuators). Have you considered using an MCS umbrella scheme (for the £7,500 government grant) and doing the install yourself?
Out of curiosity, was there a reason you didn't use MLCP pipe(e.g. PEX-Al-PEX) on the 22mm run from manifold to existing system? That might have saved a load of copper bending, although I suppose some people find that therapeutic!
Thanks. Yes we should hopefully be ready for a heat pump when the time comes. I was thinking exactly that myself recently about that pipe run. Don't know why I didn't use plastic - as it would also have removed the need for that join under the floor. Also I'm slightly gutted I didn't put the manifold in the cupboard - would have made so much more sense and removed the need for that pipe run. Still you live and learn. 👊
@@CharlieDIYte I am moving towards the perspective that MLCP pipe is easier to use and cheaper than copper, and produces join-free work. The only downside is the cost of crimp fittings and tooling, although there are now U-profile manual crips for around £70. Ideal for DIY-ers, if only we knew about it.
Hindsight regarding the manifold location is a wonderful thing, but equally pushing a project forwards is very important. Thanks for sharing your introspection.
Wow - great job
don't the clips compromise the waterproofness of the membrane?
Not significantly. They're pushed down tight into it. I think they would if you were using an eco insulation layer where the arrows in the clips don't have anything to anchor into.
This was great.
Thanks 👊
Great job but personally i would have put a limecrete floor with foamglas insulation as you have solid walls.
Risk of damp pushing up walls as cant escape. Otherwise looks good.
Looking for advice just purchased a bungalow built 1960s electric underfloor heating. Do I keep it or dig it up and install insulated wet underfloor heating 100ms floor area
You've got 2 issues with that electric system. 1. Electric systems cost a fortune to run and 2. insulation below the system will be non existent in a 1960s install - which in turn contributes to 1. Have you experimented with the system? Cost, efficiency etc? That was very innovative installing that in the 60s.
@@CharlieDIYte getting the key’s and of month the room stats look of the time of installation the roof area looks good for double aspect solar, the walls have cavity but no insulation. Won’t to make the house as economically to run as possible without costing a fortune I have no idea the cost of digging the floor area up and installing a better insulated floor could I just install wet underfloor heating on top of the existing floor with minimal insulation so as not to lose height and have to cut to much of the doors, O and we live on an Scottish island.
I appreciate your help
Thanks great video
Whats the guide costs to remove the floor.. and so on. With an older property, that's got to be a lot of work.
Just out of curiosity how did the whole system cost as as I’m looking at doing something similar on a budget if that’s at all possible
Nice. Why zone it at all?
awesome!
Thanks 👊
Hi there please help. The fan in my bathroom was pumping steam etc into my lift space for a couple of months until I got a new fan fitted. I now have mold growing all over my loft. What should I do now 😢😢😢???
so which system do you likebest?? How do I get in touch with JiM?? and who can install mine
Does anyone know how to calculate the head side of a pump for UFH application?
My understanding is the pressure loss show in the installation table later in this video shows in Pa the equivalent of head loss. So 20,000 Pa is equivalent to 2m of head loss. Is that right?
It so when all circuits are open in this installation what size pump would be required?
I currently have a 6m pump and it’s not enough. I have 11 circuits, most ~100mm 16mm
You didn't talk about the type of pipe you used.
Polypipe would have been a 15mm system you went with a European 16mm system.
You didn't mention that your pipes are barrier pipes. I assume they are.
You can also get multi layer pipes such as Pex-Al-Pex and Pex-Al-Hdpe. Whilst those are harder to lay, they are stronger and built better.
Are you not concerned that the system has been designed for 35° flow but at what outside temperature? If you have it set to 35° now at 8° outside and only achieving 19° inside (which is quite cold) then at -2° you will need closer to 45° flow temperature I would guess and does your system achieve this?
My UFH flow is set for 45° at -2° outside temperature with weather compensation.
Don't forget I've got the room thermostats at 19 right now. I can bump them up to 22 and it'll simply mean the system is on a bit longer but at the same flow temp and when I've insulated the walls the demands on the system will be even less. The temp in that TV room is consistently around 25 so I actually need to adjust down the auto balancing valves in there I suspect.
2:37 a heat sink floor!
How would you rate them skil tools you have? I was thinking about purchasing them myself.
I'm loving them, mate - I don't think you'd regret it. Decent life on the batteries and I like the fact the dual charger charges both batteries at once which is more than can be said for my Ryobi multi charger station! The impact driver with its multiple settings is particularly good and the SW1E3540CA multi material saw (basically a mini circular saw) that I used in this vid ua-cam.com/video/o4p3vRirksc/v-deo.html is a fantastic little tool. There are a couple of tools not available in the UK yet, like the RH1E 3851 20v SDS and the random orbit sander, but they have a good old range at Screwfix.
Is the screed anhydrate based? How was the process of removing the laitence if so? any concerns of having difficulty of flooring not binding?
Great video once again, really insightful 👍
No wall damp Issues? We are torn between a RC celotex base or limecrete……
None. Here's the wall insulation video ua-cam.com/video/Ou1CjwflZtM/v-deo.htmlsi=Tr_PriuPjKxJ5nWx
@@CharlieDIYte very interested in the wall video! We will be putting that system in when we start the next bedroom. We used ‘ecological building systems’ suspended floor insulation detail for our living room, and your timber floor suppler for the floor finish 👍🏻
Amazing set up mate!
Cost.... Don't be shy.
Thanks Richard. I'll do a vid on the cost. The kit itself was about £1400. What makes these systems really expensive to retrofit is the cost of excavation, insulating etc.
I'm telling yo right now Jim with that clip gun aint no pro installer. He may talk a good show but no installer would be seen dead with that
Show me a better clip gun Allan. They're all rubbish 😉
@@CharlieDIYte Tried and tested a few and agree the majority are awful. I have a fantastic one and get it for you for £175. That thing you're using is the worse i have used. Uponors old gun used to be very good but they stopped making it but can occasionally be found on ebay.
The flow rate for underfloor heating is far greater than a radiator system .that is because to heat the same are you need more flow for lower water temperature
Good point 👌
Missing sound
There is sound, the problem is that the video has only processed to 360p so far and on some clients (usually mobile?) Audio doesn't work on that quality level for a few hours after upload.
Haha... it took all of 20 seconds and I'm going: "nah - radiators for me" 🤣
Just can't see how this is possible if your family is actually living and working in the house during all the work.
I boarded up the room and moved the entire kitchen into the hall. Family are getting fed up now though, living in 2 rooms for nearly a year. 🤦
That all looks expensive
No sound Charlie
Is this only available in 360p?
Hi Charlie, im a heating engineer and there are things you can do to increase efficiency and reduce boiler cycling.
What boiler do you have?
Is there any way to contact you, I would love to pick your brains regarding my system, which is also a wet ufh running off a combi that I think could be made more efficient.
Watch his old videos
The problem with any encapsulated system is you can’t know what is going on , copper pipes run under suspended floors always have the opportunity for inspection and repair . But of course this tends to come at the price of thermal efficiency , so we find ourselves in a difficult position . Greater efficiency over less efficient systems as in radiators , and again here is the main stumbling block . Systems that rely on radiators irrespective of how large the radiators are need a far higher water temperature than under floor systems require , this ultimately dictates how the water is heated . And this primarily aspect can open a whole can of worms , so at this point I feel disinclined to venture into the world of heat pumps , and the for and against such technologies .
This system is so much more efficient than the old radiator. The TV room stat is currently set to 17 degrees and the temperature in there is 20. It was quite a difficult room to heat before, with it's tile floor sitting on dirt and then one rad.
Hi Charlie indeed your old system was far from perfect , and I’m sure this is the best solution for your remodelling . One thing I have noticed even on new builds , an approach that uses under floor heating on the ground floor then opting for radiators on the upstairs . Thanks for taking the time to reply . Kind regards as always 👍