4:57 Further up and further in is kind of an allusion on "further on and more upturned" = ultreya e suseya (ultrerius et surserius + turning it to neutre plural in classicising spelling of very unclassic superlative adverbs).
If you would like to read a fictional book (w/ Q & A on Purgatory) that I wrote that is similar to the Great Divorce, Dante's Purgatorio, and Pilgrim's Progress, you should purchase my book called The Ascent which is an afterlife journey of transformation up a great mountain. I have marked it down for only $10! www.amazon.com/Ascent-Friendship-Grief-Transformation-Afterlife/dp/B08TLCJLPH/ref=sr_1_1?crid=HPDBEI41DKDQ&keywords=The+Ascent+by+Kyle+King&qid=1683032086&sprefix=the+ascent+by+kyle+king%2Caps%2C100&sr=8-1
A dear friend asked a great question: A process, or an instant...does the difference of timing matter more than the universally agreed upon need for sanctification before entering heaven? Here is my answer: "This is a great question! Time is bit of a mystery since we no longer have our bodies nor are we operating in the biological realm with a 24 solar day. I strongly link our individual judgement with Christ after death and his transformative work together. 1) For a rare few, purification may not be needed after death at all, because they have so greatly surrendered to His love that He reigns supreme in their life. (example: martyrs & faith-filled saints) 2) For others, purification may happen the moment they die and right after, because they are generally devoted to our Lord, but perhaps have a few remaining attachments to sins. (St. Gregory the Great and some church fathers mention this) 3) For those lukewarm Christians who have intentionally stayed immature in their faith all of their lives and who have significant blindspots to their own selfishness/pride and yet are still open to God, it is likely that their particular judgement and purification with Christ will be more intense, with a greater duration and will be more sorrowful (in a good, godly way) as they separate from their selfishness and grieve over a wasted Christian life. However, even for them, their time of sorrow and repentance will turn into a bright morning even if they have nothing to show for (1 Corinthians 3). 4) Keep in mind that there is a great amount of diversity of views on the nature of purification and time among the Christian East (Eastern Catholics/Orthodox) and Christian West. Also, keep in mind that Jewish and early Christian literature mentions that the soul doesn't even leave the body for 3 days, but instead visits places dear to it and expresses sorrow/repentance over its sins. This is why Jesus bringing back Lazarus on the 4th day revealed his great authority over the realm of death, because Jews thought that his soul had already departed our world. I hope this helps. I will be writing an article on the nature of time and final purification in a future article."
God the logos his eternal mind knows those whom he will save and he reveals himself through his eternal mind .he knows us and how does he reveal himself as our heavenly Father. Not through a holy Pope or saints preserved in air sealed glass coffin's.
Past memories and our awareness of them is the proof that we are not bound by time.dreams also. God himself reveals our past in the present that he alone is our heavenly Father.he knows us more than anyone. Gospel of john chapter 1: 12-13. Call no man on earth Father,read the rest why .
Yes, Lewis was Protestant but with many views that we might call "Ango-Catholic." He was an Anglican in the Church of England but with a high view of the church fathers, the councils, creeds, and the sacraments. He fasted on Fridays, went regularly to confession, believed in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, etc.
Purgatory is saying that the atoning work of the Son of God on the Cross is not sufficient for our complete salvation. He said from the Cross " it is finished!"...Purgatory says no Jesus it isn't. It voids the finished work of redemption He did. It says He is the spotless sacrifice but His sacrifice was just not quite perfect. Really it's a complete insult to His life laid down in utter suffering for us. He has wrapped us in His manel of Righteousness.
I'm not catholic, but think of purgatory in a sanctification process and not in a salvation mean... Yes we're saved by the atonement of Christ on the cross....
Purgatory exists BECAUSE of Christ's love for us. If not for purgatory, many of us would not go to heaven. You see, while we may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us, specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven. Jesus took our eternal punishment so we dont go to hell. But temporal punishment for sins already forgiven still needs to be expiated. By us. If I steal a car and after some time, I feel remorse and go up to the owner and seek forgiveness and he forgives me, that's great. But i still need to return the car, right? If I break a neighbour's window and he forgives me, i still need to fix the glass right? Some restoration still needs to be done in order for one to be fully clean in order to enter heaven. For 'nothing unclean shall enter heaven'
So a Christian makes it safely to death, and then? Our flesh is dead and we may no longer commit sins, but if our Christian souls are alive, are not those sins we committed in life still upon us? Shall we trod Heaven’s streets of gold with muddy shoes? No! We must be washed of our stains before we are to be dressed for the banquet. Purgatory is the most rational expression for this. Christ’s sacrifice permits sinners to enter the Father’s house, but not as we are.
Purgatory is a gift that our sinful nature's and imperfections may be purged so that we may truly enter the perfection of Heaven. It is a gift of salvation. It is mercy.
Do you with all heart believe that if you die today you will go straight to heaven? Jesus die and established the sacraments because he knows how week we are and nothing impure can enter in heaven. Yes, purgatory is for people who are saved, but have imperfect souls. Purgatory is a great act of mercy and grace from God. We have to do sacrifices and bear good fruit. St Paul says we must suffer patiently because our sufferings are added to the ones of Christ.
Wow, this is terrible theology and clearly unbiblical. How in the world someone can read the bible and come to a conclusion like this is sad. Less Lewis, more Jesus.
Well there is a logic to Scripture that everyone must be holy in heaven and so purification between death and the Beatific Vision would be a necessary and logically step Biblically. The purging of the wheat, straw, and wood (that which is selfish and doesn't last) as stated in 1 Corinthians 3. I would encourage you to dig a bit deeper and you might be surprised. It the process would also be tied to our particular judgment with Christ that all Christians must pass through (2 Corinthians 5). Dr. Jerry Walls' (A Protestant) book on Purgatory is excellent.
Agreed. Jesus died to cleanse us of our sins. Therefore, there is no longer any need for further purification. You want to be the one to explain to Jesus that His death didn't quite work?
The mind of God reveals himself as our heavenly Father, he alone knows his own children,he show's through dreams and our memories who we are .
4:57 Further up and further in is kind of an allusion on "further on and more upturned" = ultreya e suseya (ultrerius et surserius + turning it to neutre plural in classicising spelling of very unclassic superlative adverbs).
If you would like to read a fictional book (w/ Q & A on Purgatory) that I wrote that is similar to the Great Divorce, Dante's Purgatorio, and Pilgrim's Progress, you should purchase my book called The Ascent which is an afterlife journey of transformation up a great mountain. I have marked it down for only $10! www.amazon.com/Ascent-Friendship-Grief-Transformation-Afterlife/dp/B08TLCJLPH/ref=sr_1_1?crid=HPDBEI41DKDQ&keywords=The+Ascent+by+Kyle+King&qid=1683032086&sprefix=the+ascent+by+kyle+king%2Caps%2C100&sr=8-1
A dear friend asked a great question: A process, or an instant...does the difference of timing matter more than the universally agreed upon need for sanctification before entering heaven? Here is my answer: "This is a great question! Time is bit of a mystery since we no longer have our bodies nor are we operating in the biological realm with a 24 solar day. I strongly link our individual judgement with Christ after death and his transformative work together. 1) For a rare few, purification may not be needed after death at all, because they have so greatly surrendered to His love that He reigns supreme in their life. (example: martyrs & faith-filled saints) 2) For others, purification may happen the moment they die and right after, because they are generally devoted to our Lord, but perhaps have a few remaining attachments to sins. (St. Gregory the Great and some church fathers mention this) 3) For those lukewarm Christians who have intentionally stayed immature in their faith all of their lives and who have significant blindspots to their own selfishness/pride and yet are still open to God, it is likely that their particular judgement and purification with Christ will be more intense, with a greater duration and will be more sorrowful (in a good, godly way) as they separate from their selfishness and grieve over a wasted Christian life. However, even for them, their time of sorrow and repentance will turn into a bright morning even if they have nothing to show for (1 Corinthians 3). 4) Keep in mind that there is a great amount of diversity of views on the nature of purification and time among the Christian East (Eastern Catholics/Orthodox) and Christian West. Also, keep in mind that Jewish and early Christian literature mentions that the soul doesn't even leave the body for 3 days, but instead visits places dear to it and expresses sorrow/repentance over its sins. This is why Jesus bringing back Lazarus on the 4th day revealed his great authority over the realm of death, because Jews thought that his soul had already departed our world. I hope this helps. I will be writing an article on the nature of time and final purification in a future article."
God the logos his eternal mind knows those whom he will save and he reveals himself through his eternal mind .he knows us and how does he reveal himself as our heavenly Father. Not through a holy Pope or saints preserved in air sealed glass coffin's.
Past memories and our awareness of them is the proof that we are not bound by time.dreams also. God himself reveals our past in the present that he alone is our heavenly Father.he knows us more than anyone. Gospel of john chapter 1: 12-13. Call no man on earth Father,read the rest why .
Was he anglo catholic at a guess?
Yes, Lewis was Protestant but with many views that we might call "Ango-Catholic." He was an Anglican in the Church of England but with a high view of the church fathers, the councils, creeds, and the sacraments. He fasted on Fridays, went regularly to confession, believed in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, etc.
@@barrelagedfaith Anglican high churchman then
Explains why he was friends with j r r tolkien. I always wondered about that.
Purgatory is saying that the atoning work of the Son of God on the Cross is not sufficient for our complete salvation. He said from the Cross " it is finished!"...Purgatory says no Jesus it isn't. It voids the finished work of redemption He did. It says He is the spotless sacrifice but His sacrifice was just not quite perfect. Really it's a complete insult to His life laid down in utter suffering for us. He has wrapped us in His manel of Righteousness.
I'm not catholic, but think of purgatory in a sanctification process and not in a salvation mean...
Yes we're saved by the atonement of Christ on the cross....
Purgatory exists BECAUSE of Christ's love for us. If not for purgatory, many of us would not go to heaven.
You see, while we may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us, specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven.
Jesus took our eternal punishment so we dont go to hell. But temporal punishment for sins already forgiven still needs to be expiated. By us.
If I steal a car and after some time, I feel remorse and go up to the owner and seek forgiveness and he forgives me, that's great. But i still need to return the car, right?
If I break a neighbour's window and he forgives me, i still need to fix the glass right?
Some restoration still needs to be done in order for one to be fully clean in order to enter heaven.
For 'nothing unclean shall enter heaven'
So a Christian makes it safely to death, and then? Our flesh is dead and we may no longer commit sins, but if our Christian souls are alive, are not those sins we committed in life still upon us? Shall we trod Heaven’s streets of gold with muddy shoes? No! We must be washed of our stains before we are to be dressed for the banquet. Purgatory is the most rational expression for this. Christ’s sacrifice permits sinners to enter the Father’s house, but not as we are.
Purgatory is a gift that our sinful nature's and imperfections may be purged so that we may truly enter the perfection of Heaven. It is a gift of salvation. It is mercy.
Do you with all heart believe that if you die today you will go straight to heaven? Jesus die and established the sacraments because he knows how week we are and nothing impure can enter in heaven. Yes, purgatory is for people who are saved, but have imperfect souls. Purgatory is a great act of mercy and grace from God. We have to do sacrifices and bear good fruit. St Paul says we must suffer patiently because our sufferings are added to the ones of Christ.
Wow, this is terrible theology and clearly unbiblical. How in the world someone can read the bible and come to a conclusion like this is sad. Less Lewis, more Jesus.
Well there is a logic to Scripture that everyone must be holy in heaven and so purification between death and the Beatific Vision would be a necessary and logically step Biblically. The purging of the wheat, straw, and wood (that which is selfish and doesn't last) as stated in 1 Corinthians 3. I would encourage you to dig a bit deeper and you might be surprised. It the process would also be tied to our particular judgment with Christ that all Christians must pass through (2 Corinthians 5). Dr. Jerry Walls' (A Protestant) book on Purgatory is excellent.
Agreed. Jesus died to cleanse us of our sins. Therefore, there is no longer any need for further purification. You want to be the one to explain to Jesus that His death didn't quite work?