Team Associated B7 - buyers beware before buying this car and fixing C Block issue
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- We identified big problem with the B7
The narrow chassis make the chassis prone to bending in big crashed - suppose this is a trade off performance versus durability
Also problem identified with the C Block being damaged - we provide fixes for this
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Do you recall what side of the car most people were breaking on? I am willing to bet it was predominantly the left (fan) side. And the problem isnt where you think.
I can tell just from this video, that your car also has this same problem.
The issue starts at the D Block, or more specifically, the D Block mounting. Or rather, the holes that go through the transmission casing, and up to the, what i have dubbed, the "Rear Ballstud Bulkhead" or RBB for short.
If you measure the passage holes in the transmission from the backside of the transmission case, to the holes edge, you will find that the left hand (fan) side hole is dead on at 2mm. If you measure the right hand (drive) side, the hole is anywhere from 2.2mm to 2.5mm, the most common being ~2.3mm. I believe the shrink rate of the plastic is responsible for the deviations. But the point is, the hole on the drive side is visually further away from the back edge lf the transmission. And if you measure the thread boss on the RBB from the back edge, they are both at 2mm, dead on.
When you thread the screws through the D Block, and up through the transmission case to the RBB, the D Block will naturally tweak as the screws tighten down at different angles. Its one of those things where once you know what you are looking for, you cant unsee it, and every B7 looks like that, with the skewed D Block not aotting even on the transmission case.
Now take a caliper and measure between the C abd D block (without an arm) on each side. You will notice that the Left side is anywhere from .5mm to 1mm wider gapped. This gives the hinge pin much more float fore and aft on the left hand side. Naturally, as the car accelerates, the hinge pin will be pushed back into the D Block Pills. With the left side D Block sitting further back, the hinge pin will ahift rearwards further, leaving the end of the pin in the C Block sitting proud in the Pill, with only the thin chamfered edge of the C Block (to allow the pill to sit flush) to reinforce the Pill. Only it isnt... because that is where the notch for easy pill removal is located. So the pin, after tapping a wall, is being leveraged rearwards off the D Block as a pivot, and pulls out and up at the C Block, following the path of least resistance, and tears right through the Pill removal notch, blowing out the chamfered edge of the C Block.
Now, during assembly you can kind of push down on the left side of the D Block, and make it sit level with the back of the transmission case, but one good whack will skew the D Block again, and the problem starts all over.
Now, a longer pin will help, and a beefier C Block will prevent the tear out. In fact, both of these things are good ideas. But these are just treatments for the symptom, the cause of the issue is the problem in the transmission mold, whether it was a machining error or a QA issue when checking final blueprints of the transmission case, we will probly never know, but thats where this is all atarts. And sadly ,no one seems to want to address the issue directly. Least of which, is Team Associated. Which ia really , really disappointing. Because i would hazard a guess that an extra 1.2mm on length on some 3.5mm drill stock hinge pins, or even leavng an extra .5mm of added aluminum on the out side of ther C Block, are both significantly cheaper than the tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars it would take to fix the transmission case mold properly.
Maybe on the B7.1? #TwoMoreWeeks
Upon first reveal some, week, or weeks ago I saw that narrowing of both ends and it caught my attention, but then this... I love these car's. And if you happen to notice anything like this on the nitro or even other brands I'd like to know about it.. I have 2 b6.4's and I'm pretty content. These xars will be relevant for many many years to come I'm sure of it.
That is really interesting, we will investigate that. Interesting to see how good the fit was with the b6.4 pins, we will have a look
People are saying this car is not fit for purpose. What rubbish. Are all tracks built with jumps of a certain height or distance? If the car is used by a novice rather than a pro etc. Its a toy use it and break it, then fix it. Stop whinging or buy another brand
@memememe2674 I think he's saying things shouldn't really ever go backwards in design. It's just an overlook I'm sure they'll fix.
@@memememe2674Yah, always more fun wrenching on the cars more than driving them.. Or, maybe they should at least make it CORRECTLY so we’re not at a disadvantage from the start. They make millions on replacement parts and we all know they break, but they certainly don’t need any help from bad R&D/QA!
Once I’m a pro like you, I shouldn’t have to whine anymore either.
First of all, “BRAVO” for bringing this to the R/C world’s attention, hope Associated makes it right. I had actually gone to Losi the past few years since the B5 was my last AE until this B7. Had similar quality issues back then and hoped they’d R&D better with the new b7.
Anyway, I had Thought I was doing something wrong. Just bought my THIRD B7 C-Block this evening. Decided to do a bit of research and happened upon your videos! You hit it right on the head! Always the same side. Since I have 11-different 1/10 buggies over the years, with an enormous amount of upgraded chassis, pins, etc. figure I’ll see if there’s a pin in the mix that’ll work proper until a true fix is released.
Hopefully they’ll come up with an aluminum pill insert as well as some sort of chassis brace. I can do without the little opening in the C-Block and feel that would at least secure the pin/pill insert better. The “kit” offset of pill insert doesn’t allow much room for error with thin plastic walls. Think I’m also going to sacrifice a tiny bit of rear alignment for more secure fitment by adjusting to the inner side hole of pill insert. May even take C block to my fabricator to see if he can tig weld that gap closed. Seems extreme, but I’m tired of spending more time wrenching than racing already.
May look into a chassis brace, even if minor, if space allows for something similar to my 1:8 buggy bracing (only mini)…
If you are this far, I’m very interested in learning your setup you referenced in video. Thank you for what you do, it’s always appreciated sir!
The longer pins seem to make it much better which we can supply. I also believe the carbon gearbox is more accurately drilled but have not been able to get hold of one to check
I do have the carbon gearbox but had t installed yet. Once my new c-block arrives (just bought the HD one from Rotor Ron with the cut-out deleted), I’ll swap to new CF gearbox and check if longer pin is still needed.
Curious what you think of an aluminum pull insert?
Also, where can I purchase the pin from you?
Lastly, anyway to obtain your latest setup sheet? I live trying different setups. Currently running my B7 on a tight, high grip carpet track with some double jumps, hair pins, and not much in the way of unobstructed straightaway. Biggest issue I’m having is getting power to clear the double using a Tekin 17.5, Tekin RS Pro esc (blinky mode), Tekin 180 LP servo, using Futaba 7PXr TX. Thinking gearing is my issue currently… Much appreciated again!!
This isn't fit for purpose, and surely comes under the sale of goods act. Those affected, should get free "correct" length kingpins and compensated for damage parts due to this fault. So nearly upgraded from my B6.2 to this buggy, but had already decided to wait for the B7.1 when these type of problems will be fixed. Looks like I made a good call. Thanks for the video, very useful.
Exactly what I'm doing
Team Associated I have ran since 1988 they seem to be putting out new 2wd to often I'm still in a 6.2 have not needed to upgrade was excited to see the new b7 and they public debuted at my local track Hoosier RC hobby Plex personally I did not like the looks of the car not sure what they was thinking making the rear of the chassis narrower and the lack of a waterfall had me reserved and what's up with the long arms long arms has only been good for bumpy tracks it probably would have been a good car for 20 years ago before we started having such smooth dirt tracks I could be wrong but the B7 makes me want to leave Associated for something else
I noticed that the jump ramp looked almost the same length as the car & very steep causing possibly chassis wrenching & pressure on the pins..might be the angle of footage but jump looked to launch car upward..
Jumps were big but the landing ramp was quite forgiving.
Thanks for the informative vid. Good stuff 👍 Bummer about the bent chassis 😢. Can you please measure the length of your rear hinge pin? Other fix I'm sure you've heard of is flipping the c block around which supports the pill better and brings the pills a bit closer together
50.75 is the magic number for the pins we believe
The ones in my kit measure 49.5mm but don't seem to have excessive slop when set to 1.5' as, 3' toe (with flipped c block). Would be good if ae would break radio silence and share their thoughts on the issue!
Guy at my track has blown up the transmission five times! Two times the diff blew up and three times one of the idler gears stripped out. He is done with it and building a new Mugen now.
Not heard any transmission issues.
@@TeamRC3D Lots of guys running at my track. Maybe you suck and are slow AF. Fast guys at my track are blowing up transmissions and that's with 17.5 not even mod.
@@TeamRC3Dhow bout now? It’s super common.
@@m0b00st It's always the same people saying gee I don't have any problems lol. Usually it's like really slow guys though.
Has AE fixed the problem with the new batch of B7s
I believe they have fixed some of the issues although now some people are doing gearbox gears
The B7 is my first AE car after running Schumachers for nearly 4 years, it’s making me wish I hadn’t bothered, the B7 is more fragile than all the Schumachers I’ve had
Schumacher is the only brand we have not had, bitd we had plenty of them
The LD3 is a far better car.
I had a ld2 but no matter what I did for turf I hated it. My ld1 was awesome. I just tried a b7 and it was so much more comfortable to drive. Ordered one praying it’s reliable. My Schumacher never broke
How did you notice the chassis bend ?. I had a crash today and am wondering if I done the same
The front kick up twists you can see by eye if you loook at front suspension
I think this is a build issue as well as a Carpet issue. At our clay track we have yet to see any failures.
The holes are clearly mis aligned and pins too short!
Interesting re the pin length, will message CML
Think I’ll keep my B6.4D!
AE seems to do this on purpose, in order to say “here buy these parts to fix it “
Thank you...I'm fixing mine tonight...
Another fix is flipping the c-block round so slots are at the front. The pill then sits out of the block by about 1mm so you fit a 1mm spacer instead of the 2mm to keep the wheel base the same
Hmmm, yes seen that. Not liking that idea, longer pins or spacers to push pin forward is the temp fix
the good part of flipping the C block is that the slot makes it more easy to use a small pick to poke out the pills when its needed to change them.
Trasmission broken?
Nope thats fine - as long as the slipper, diff and the thumbs are working okay not had an issue
so in a nut shell its a load of crap bad chassis design if your bending it
No it’s a performance car with a few issues
Yep
Some people are using drill blanks as temporary hingepins
I had a feeling the new b7 wasn’t worth buying yet
TMG have done a C block 👍🤞
The actual c block is not really the problem
Opted for Dave’s C block and will fit the pins I’ve ordered from yourselves today.
Friend of mine is using items from Ben Jemison.
Never going to buy one. Just the short chassis in the rear and exposed plastic to the ground says NO F-ING WAY lol
And they have now brought out short chassis - a quick car but has some flaws
so is quid like when "americans" say bucks?
Yes!
You know this video is a little misleading.
I think AE does an excellent job of trying to provide durability, but in truth, the cars are meant to be raced and provide high performance.
They aren't really engineered to crash. Though they do sustain crashes.
I think you are correct that that is a tradeoff. More performance, maybe less durability.
But, you should think in terms of scale when you guage crash damage.
You said you were going full speed and hit a car that was stopped.
So, 1/10 going maybe 25-35 mph times 10.
At least you provided a suggested spec for the C block or rear lower control arm pin.
I think you just had a rough day at the track.
U missed the point
Associated vehicles are really becoming garbage. Not enough testing. Great informative video. Put more money into a kit to just get it to work ok. No thanks.
They claim this car had more testing than any car in their history. Which if true is really sad because this car is not good.
I just don't get the hype, 4WD faster, easier to drive. Yeah they more expensive but looking at my B74.2 chassis alone is way beefier. I've took a pretty good tuble and only thing that happen is the sensor wire popped out of the engine.
We have not ventured back into 4wd yet. Last 4wd I raced was predator back in 90s
🙄 'promo sm'
Drive an F1 car over a curb and it will break too.
Point is, these cars are made for racing competitively, not crashing.
if you can't keep the car on the track you shouldn't have bought a high performance buggy in the first place.
Good point. We are quite capable of keeping car on the track!!. Unfortunately it is not an isolated incident.
@@TeamRC3D I never implied it was an isolated event. Any high performance vehicle is going to break when crashed. Buy a traxxas.
But why not a full chassis? Plastic dragging in the back just says "poor design" unless they're now marketing metal chassis decals lol
Get an LD3 or an MSB1 and you’ll go months without replacing parts.
Not too sure on that
@@TeamRC3Dyou don’t need to be sure. I’ve proven it as a very novice driver with both cars and zero broken parts since release on either.
Team associated shit , will never purchase a kit from them again !
We have got best results with associated compared to other brands