Is This the End of Porter Cable? (Killed by Craftsman)
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- Опубліковано 17 лип 2024
- Is This the End of Porter Cable? (Killed by Craftsman)
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My dad has a ton of the old early completely steel porter cable tools they still work to this day
nice!
I hope your dad knows what he has. quality tools are hard to come by these days.
@@ElectronicsForFun my dad know what he has he has a ton of old tools he collects them since he is retired old black and decker old skill even has the old makita with the super long batteries the 7.2 volt I think is what they were and tons of cool other brands and neet tools
@@AntonioClaudioMichael yeah the old ni-cd batteries. I remember those.
Had my father's old stuff ...and I tell you are right that was really well made stuff is was from the seventies
Home Depot still sales Porter Cable 20V tools on the online website. Tractor Supply as well...
Betteridge's law of headlines is an adage that states: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no". It is named after Ian Betteridge, a British technology journalist who wrote about it in 2009, although the principle is much older.
With in the last year my son and I both own all most every Porter Cable 20 v tool. My Lowe's only had a few things left. I hope I will still be able to get batteries. I bought one more today.
Porter Cable/Delta for life. I have a Drill Press stamped Delta Porter-Cable that was made in 1960. Still use it today. All my tools, air tools, power tools, cordless tools are all Delta Porter Cable. I have a old 14.4 volt NiCad cordless drill made by Porter-Cable I still use time to time when people pull out their $400 DeWalt. You should see the look on there faces when they realize what I’m using.
I have three sets of the older craftsman tools so thanks and I will be getting the ion batteries.
They also invented the best drum flooring sander hands down, they sold the division to Clarke in ‘52
I have a 20 volt lithium Porter Cable drill and driver set. I use them quite a bit and the driver is a work horse in a couple of deck building projects and the building of wood handicap ramps. Handles 5” T-25 star drive deck screws with ease. I also have the circular saw. It is OK for cuts here and there, but cutting 2x8 boards will get you maybe 6-10 cuts before the battery dies. But the saw came in handy when I had to cut a wood ceiling during a water pipe leak. No cord and the battery kept working when soaked with water. I have a couple of Craftsman 18 volt lithium tools but the Porter Cable are better, and I like those Craftsman tools.
Hi just left my Lowe's close to my home, no Porter cable tools at all, cordless!
I have a lot of old Craftsman hand tools. My power tools are Porter Cable. They work great for home and auto repair, but I wouldn't take them to a job site
Porter Cable has a big presence in Tractor Supply and Ace
I have some ratchets made by Craftsman in the 1990's when they were still made here that have the pawls on them with the knurled knob on them that I would love to get the replacement pawls for.
Porter Cable (Rockwell) is junk today. I have the old tools from 40 years ago. In fact I did a review on my channel of the 4.5" trim saw which is over 40yrs old. A masterpiece of design and it had a worm drive. A powerful saw in a small package. Still use it today. Good video Bear!
back in the 90s when i was in trade school it was all porter cable stuff...these were probably already 10-15 years old when we got them and that kids abusing them.....new stuff would not last a year..
I think many of these smaller companies that are owned by Black & Decker are used for pneumatic tools mainly stuff that is not made to be a part of the premier line, because people don’t really care for buying it, and will complain if it isn’t being sold.
Porter-Cable routers and sanders were some of the best power tools around.
Made a living using PC's products for many years.
Those little 303 block sanders were very hard to kill, built like a tank, as were the huge 3hp Speedtronic routers.
Someone needs to buy the name from S-B&D and build them like they used to.
I've used Porter Cable for years with a great experience, would love to see HF make room for them and continue a local outlet.
I'm currently using their new brushless edge 20v drill and impact for my handyman business and appliance repair and have to say I'm completely happy with my Porter Cable tool's , but I'm not building new construction home's either so my current duty load isn't that difficult, porch repairs and gutter repairs and installation doesn't require that kind of tool
the craftsmen tools are exactly the same. it's still SB+D's prosumer line. they're just willing to give more love to the craftsmen name but I assure you they are the same tools. think of these craftsmen tools as the newer model for porter cable.
They are basically becoming the House Brand of places like Ace. It would be great to see some place buy them and resurrect them but I think HR has too much invested at this point in Bauer and Hercules. The logical one would have been Walmart but they started from scratch with Hart. Not sure who is out there with the money to invest to bring them back, I do not think Ace or True Value have the funds for that kind of project.
The Craftsmen 20volt line looks like HF Bauer to me.
It looks like a copy from dewalt
It is a copy of dewalt....
@@gerardorivera7356 poor copy, they got the color wrong.
it's the same thing as the porter cable line. it's still SB+D's prosumer line, all they did was change the color and the branding. but they are literally the exact same tools. if you look close enough to can see some of their tools are identical in everyway while others have a newer look but still the same guts.
I just bought a porter cable corded electric 1/2" impact wrench. I love it! $80 before taxes.
Great video red
I used porter cable cordless in everyday commercial service and they held as well or better than my Milwaukee, Bosch dewalt etc
Rockwell got a hold of Delta at one point.
I used to drool over the Porter Cable cordless drills and hand routers watching the New Yankee Workshop as a kid. Shame how they bottomed out
Very sad to hear that Craftsman was supplanting PC as the mid tier of SBD. It was the very reason I went with PC. Was just in Lowes the other day and PC has been reduced to one small end cap in the back end of the tool section. Wow! No new news since 2018? Ominous indeed.
I have two D handled Porter cable routers, and I wanted to go by 2 more of them today and I found out they were discontinued ! Also I wanted to buy about roughly 6 months ago a armadillo sander from Porter cable and they stop making that too ,and I thought it was just out of stock but nope it's gone forever... Sad face.
Years ago I used to watch This Old House & Norm Abrams got a tour of the Porter Cable facilities in Tennessee & they made everything in house; they were self-sufficient for everything they did. I have a model 333 Porter Cable random orbital sander & I had to buy a replacement pad for it; I found two at my local ROCKLER dealer; I bought them both after the sales associate told me that PC was starting to slowly get faded out of the tool market. I also have a couple more replacement pads on Amazon in my cart; I will have to check out the WOOT website. On B&D; I still have a vacuum cleaner that was made by B&D back in 1961 or 62 that my dad bought before I was even born & it still runs like a champ; the motor that sits on top of the barrel is 2-1/4 horse and it weighs about 60 pounds and is not easy to haul up & down stairs; so it's regulated to the basement where it gets used regularly. The interesting thing about this vac is the filter itself is made out of a fabric that looks like a canvas; but is not canvas, but something else; I had to bring the filter to my local dry cleaner to get it sent out to get sewn up, as a seam came loose. The vac sounds like a B-52 taking off when started up & same when landing. My only issue with the vac is finding hose ends for it now since a local hardware store icon (Seven Corners Hardware) in St. Paul closed it's doors back in 2014 forever. If Seven Corners did not have it; you did not need it; they had more than just the one main store; they had separate stores for various large power tools and welding equipment sales as well......
Great video
Good show bear! Hey, a guy like you can tell a story really well. You do a great job at presenting historical angles. More more more
Porter Cable makes a very nice floor standing drill press sold at Lowes.
It's not bad but not at that price.
My porter cable 20v tools have been great, had my drill for 8 years now, impact, jig saw and sawzall for 6. All batteries still work and tools. Sawzall is on its way out but I’ve abused it. Very happy with my porter cable tools but I’ll be switching to dewalt or Milwaukee for the broad selection of cordless tools
I bought several cordless p/c 18volt tools about 8 years ago and they're all still working fine. However, need to get a new 18v battery and wonder if the 20 volt battery will work with my 18v tools.
Over the last few years, I've accumulated 2x Drill Drivers (1 brushed, 1 brushless), a brushless impact driver, circular saw, recip saw, 1/2" impact wrench, multi-tool, 4" grinder and maybe more, I can't remember. Is it worth selling my collection and moving to a new battery platform or just grab a bunch of batteries and remaining tools as they go on clearance? This is my dilemma. I have not been disappointed with any of the tools but, not sure what kind of support I'd get moving forward.
Looks like B&D is selling DeWalt rebranded as Craftsman... much cheaper too so I wonder what the quality is like.
I have a Rockwell jig saw that I got as kid in the early 80’s, still works great today. Good work Bear keep it up.
What a shame. We have a porter cable driver/drill combo brushed that is 8 years old that still works like no bodys business and they have been abused. We switched to milwaukee and they die before the porter cables do.
I have an early '90s Porter Cable 4' belt sander that is a beast! I would not trade it for anything.
I don't think Porter Cable is going away yet. It has just been displaced at Lowe's by craftsman which is mainly the SOS in a different case color. Porter Cable is now at Costco and most auto parts stores. I don't live near a farm and fleet but supposedly there is a full line of it there as well.
Instead of running from Porter Cable I've invested more because it's cheaper and the batteries are compatible with Black and Decker. A local discount stores have it cheap too. I got the we/dry vac for $40 instead of $100. The 1/2 impact wrench is $60 and the same as craftsman. If they didn't change the batteries on craftsman I might be tempted. Not only did they reverse the polarity I bet they added a protocol but Idk.
I found a 8 piece porter cable cordless combo kit for $89
I subscribed to this channel a couple of months ago and I find it hard to believe how much I look forward to listening to commentary from Mr. DaBear as much as I do. Thank you for the awesome insights.
With Halloween around the corner, it sounds like you should make some tombstones with the names of all the RIP tool companies for your front yard! Especially after two days of videos about what use to be legendary tool companies who are no longer relevant.
Sadly a lot of it is rich companies buying up the competition to buy their way to the top.
What’s odd to me is that they spent time developing the only cordless tile cut saw on the market, and then totally abandoned the line. Pretty ridiculous. I own every PC 20V tool other than the tile saw and crown stapler, sad to see them giving us all the middle finger.
Yeah like he said Porter cable was great stuff probably up until 2004 though I have to say I have a 2012 18v nicad kit that took a flood still worked after it dried for A-day.. all 4 tools. I still have this kit...cannot complain
I know this was made 8 months ago, so things could have changed but when I went to my Lowe's they did not even had PC on display. I actually had to search for a good amount before finding it and man was it a disappointment. Just a little end rack facing where nobody will look, away from all the attention of the other big brand name tools
My best circular saw is porter cable, can’t kill it, outlasted two dewalts and one Bosch, sad to see them go, I hope they stay in business.
I have a porter cable circular saw.. love it!
I know this is old, but Costco has been pimpin a P/C tool kit as recently as end of 2020. My oscillating tool just failed. Went Dewalt versus new old stock P/C
My Porter Cable 1/2 Electric Drill (model 6614) is a Monster! 20+ years and it still works like the day I bought it. . . .
I was about to comment on that back in the day when I first started in the sheetmetal trade there were no Impacks they came alone later our company invested in a bunch of porter cable drills they were big and heavy but they did the job and lasted forever tools now are a joke especially if you need a battery for one you better off buying a new tool setup battery tool and charger being they cost the same as a battery it's by dedigh to make money selling more tools if you noticed the batteries are low amp hr what a scam
I used to work for Porter-Cable back in the early 90's. It is so sad to see them destroyed by Stanley. If Stanley had any brains they would revive the brand as an exclusive line for fine woodworkers and cabinet makers. That was their strength before they got bought out. No one made better routers or belt sanders. But those quality tools have all but been discontinued.
Never bought Craftsman power tools. Never could find out who made them. Went to Lowes in 2012. I bought a Porter-Cable 18V still-driver and circular saw combo because the floor associate told me they were made by Dewalt. I went on to purchase an impact driver. I used them hard about a dozen times a year since and they have more than proved worthy of the DIY home owner and occasional craftsman. I saw what this guy is saying about P-C and recently bought a 6’piece Ryobi set. Still using my P-C.
And 3 years later, you can still buy PC on amazon!
I love my Porter Cable tools! Cheap, and they take a beating. Will be very sad if they fall.
I too beat the crap out of them daily with the jobs l do. Zero failures. I like them. To be honest they have worked better for me than Dewalt or Milwaukee. No real complaints. I hope someone picks them up. I use them commercially. I think for the price you can't beat them.
Same here.
@@DRILL-SGT.HARTMAN i feel the same. I have their tigersaw (reciprocating saw) for 5 years. Throw it around like a toy and overuse it but still works like new. I have a ryobi reciprocating saw and burnt the motor out in about a year.
I have had the greatest luck with porter cable tools! I am a professional woodworker and I use them day in and day out, and in many years have never had a problem. Their routers are the best!
I don't think Porter Cable ever put much effort behind their cordless tools. They've always focused more on woodworking tools rather than construction tools (routers, lathes, jointers, etc.) and still seem to have a good reputation in the woodworking segment.
I miss my good ole Porter Cable made in Tennessee. Loved the 4 x 24 belt sander and any of the routers they made. Not a tool out today that comes close to the old school Porter cable
It a shame and a disgrace what Stanley Black & Decker did to Porter Cable! My father has the old quality steel Porter Cable tools from the years ago...
Not true they just signed a contract with Tractor Supply to sell there products.
Kobalt is gone at Lowes in Canada.
Yup. Can concur - don't see them in Greater Toronto Area.
We use Porter Cable 20v tool on our ranch. They have worked really well. It is sad to have Porter Cable closed out for Craftsman
My PC routers, recipro saw and biscuit joiner are Pentair-era and have held up well under daily use for many years. Sad times these days for iconic brands. Reminds me of what happened to Packard automobiles -- magnificent, powerful luxury cars that, by the late '50s, were just rebadged Studebakers.
5-690 routers
2-tigersaws
1-biscut jointer
All about 25 years old and work flawlessly...I am a happy finish carpenter!
At my local Lowes they also significantly thinned out the Hitachi-Metabo cordless tools. Way better brand than the new Crapsman from SBD.
I call them Crapsman too. 😂
My Porter Cable biscuit joiner is sad to hear about this.
what about BLACK+DECKER any good ?
Hey, Red da Bear, as a safety issue, tell people not to trust the round red seat, adjustable stool. The weld broke on mine & I fell flat on my back. I took it back for exchange on a safer type. Was told they would not give me credit since it was over 90 days! I'm ok with that, but I just want to warm people thru you, before someone get seriously hurt! No I'm not overweight. 5'7" 170 lbs. SEFETY FIRST!!! Thx. Luis .
I have 2 Porter cable 20v batteries and nailers with charger. Will they work with the craftsman 20v crown nailer?
porter cable vs powersmart vs craftsman's can the 20V batteries be used between them?
Porter cable is also sold at walmart website as well as tractor supply and cal ranch stores as well as hundreds of other places I think porter cable will die at lowes but will survive everywhere else
I just bought a porter cable impact wrench from tractor supply. So far I am very happy with it and my angle grinder and from the early 2000s a finish router . Very solid .
it sucks i love porter cable i have the hole line of 18v and now most of the 20v they last my 18v still works great just it is easyer to get batterys
a year later, i'm looking hard at them because black and decker batteries can be modified to work on them. can't find them locally. i have 5 of those b&d batteries and the chargers to go with. walmart was the last place to find black and decker tools and that's a thing of the past it seems. i'm curious if craftsman can be done similarly. they probably flipped the outputs on the batteries though i'm not sure. my drill has limited life left in it. i guess i'll run it till it stops but i'm a bit displeased with the situation. i don't want to deal with more batteries and really don't wanna spend the money for new tools and batteries.
For everyone saying that the good routers and belt sanders are not available, that's not true. You can still buy the Porter Cable 690 router (plunge base is still orderable) and the 352vs belt sander at Lowes or Woodcraft. I've had the newer versions for roughly a decade...still just as good as the old ones IMHO.
Great video, I completely agree, I saw at the Lowe’s near me that some of porter cable small woodworking machines have turned red now
I hope they don't kill off their routers, the 890 series is an excellent tool.
DIY Audio Guy yes I’d have to agree I had one of those. My two routers are still the old sears craftsman professional line which as I understand were made by Bosch
I’m still rocking a 2015 impact driver. The two 1.5ah batteries are showing their age but I can still driver a six inch screw no problem and an 8” if I take my time the last inch or so. New batteries are $60 so not worth replacing for an old driver; I’ll buy a kobalt impact for my kobalt batteires when this impact finally goes or its batteries no longer work properly.
I had the drill but its chuck died last year.
SBD has a fifth line, if one counts the Bostitch cordless driver drill and impact driver that are sold at Walmart. How well those sell, I haven't a clue. Maybe SBD might move Porter-Cable to Walmart or some other retailer. There's no telling what they'll do to occupy shelf space.
Why the goofy bear thing ? What the hell would a bear know about tools ?
I have had some Porter Cable tools. Other than their corded tools I had in the 80s and 90s, no real loss. Great Video!
I have all the Porter-Cable brushless battery 20-volt tools and they're fabulous . I wish SBD would expand the Porter cable line more . They're really good cost effective alternative to DeWalt . I'm still using a brushed PC impact because it won't die .
Is skilsaw next?
Putting crap on shelves doesn't mean crap will sell. Lowes is counting heavily on Black Friday and the holiday sales. If the numbers aren't good enough to warrant all the "retooling", someone will get their walking papers. On the PC side, I have owned a Model 345 Saw Boss for years, a great 6" electric circ saw. I use it only for breaking down plywood sheets, using a Diablo 40 tooth blade. I love the weight and the left hand blade. I think the only place you can find them anymore is on eBay. Great little saw.
The Lowes in California, MD have removed the PC end cap and was replaced by B&D
Porter Cable is going to Walmart. Dewalt execs told me that. Sad, sad, sad. They had the best at one time. Stanley-Black and Decker has killed many great companies. I think you made a good point previously....Stanley B&D really mishandled Craftsman and they will ultimately regret going the "cheap China" route. If HF can keep Pittsburgh Pro in Taiwan, they will own that segment. I imagine Eric Smidt knows that.
What about the porter cable pneumatic, they make some real good nailers and even pancake compressors and they don’t look like they have changed at all.
All the corded and air stuff will most likely either stay PC or just get a red paint job and be called craftsman but not change at all. Look at the portable miter saw, they did it with that and several other tools as well.
Brings back happy memories of going to Sears and buying tools when I started my career as mechanic.
The best sound on UA-cam is the Bear's chomping growl. It was enough to make me a subscriber a while back and gets me to "chomp that Like button."
I always used to use their Palm nailers
This has quickly become my favorite tool channel. Thank you for your entertaining and informative content. The gimmick of the "bear" isn't annoying like a lot of the other channel gimmicks.
Since Craftsman is now a subsidiary of Stanley B&D just like Dewalt is, all they are doing is rebranding the Dewalts 20v cordless line. All these tools are internally identical with different names and different color housings.
I have some Porter Cable Air Tools, but wish I had purchased their Router in the 1980's. I was building homes in the early to mid 1980's during college but had no money to buy quality tools at the time. Ended up with a less expensive craftsman router and skillsaw brand circular saw. Then left housing for office job after college so quality tools were more of luxury rather than necesity raising a family. Still if their legacy quality tools were out there i would be slowly building up my shop with them today. Garage sale?
I have two porter cable routers. One made in the USA and one made in Mexico. They both seem to be just as good...The one made in Mexico seems to have a nicer power cord on it. You can still buy the 690 router www.woodcraft.com/products/porter-cable-router-1-3-4-hp Plunge base www.woodcraft.com/products/porter-cable-plunge-base-for-690-series-routers-model-6931 You can also buy the belt sander (also very nice.. I have one) www.woodcraft.com/products/porter-cable-3-x-21-variable-speed-sander-model-352vs
Phillip VanSickle
Tnx
I love my local Lowes, but I refuse to buy craftsman tools.
Me too...I jumped from Porter- Cable to Rigid. . Pissed me off...I liked my PC 20v stuff... it worked well...👉 still works... my brother is a building maintenance worker(remodeling apartments) and still uses the Porter Cable tools I gave him.... a couple years ago...✔
I have the 20v 1/2" Craftsman impact and the 20v circ saw. They are not bad, use the impact quite a bit. For price its ok
Same here. I buy tons of tools for my maintenance team. Not a single Craftsman tool. They are cheaper quality and double the price. I was saddened when the local Lowe's for rid of everything else in favor of Craftsman
Same here. I bought nothing but craftsman back in late 90's. Still have about half of it. Brand doesn't appeal to me anymore.
@@maverickd.t.l.9749 I haven't had any issues with any kobalt tools except 1 3/8 ratchet that they exchanged with the lifetime warranty. I run a regional maintenance program and most tools I buy my guys are kobalt. Good quality and batteries for the cordless tools are 10-20 dollars as opposed to nearly 100 per battery
I picked up the Porter Cable 4 tool kit earlier this year for $129 and the 1/2in impact wrench on Prime day. I keep watching for them to discount/discontinue the brushless drill/driver, vacuum and multi tool. I'm not sold on the Craftsman line either, I almost want to invest in the Kobalt line just in protest. I'd like to see what more Hercules comes out with and if Earthquake get a few more tools too though.
@@athhud Thanks for posting this. I've been wanting the 12v Earthquake polisher and I figured I might as well get the ratchet since they share the battery. There isn't much reviews out on the ratchet to help me decide but your post has given me more confidence in it. I was hoping they at least get a extended ratchet as well like Milwaukee released. I just wish they brought the Earthquake 1/2" impact wrench price down a bit more because the Milwaukee 1/2" impact is still listed at 200-250 depending where you buy.
I'm disinclined to buy craftsman stuff at the prices they ask. I swear it seems like they're still trying to ride the same bandwagon they were at sears. High price point for low level tools.
roscocsa
A few decades ago when there was a sears store in the city, I considered buying a craftsman drill 18V cordless. It felt like a cheap piece of sh*t compared to DeWalt who had just been bought out by SBD. The new DeWalt was a step down in quality from the original. But still far better than the pathetic craftsman brand. I can only assume that the SBD version would be an improvement over the sears quality.
If you want value for your money, buy Baur or Hercules products from HF.
As my Ryobi products die I will be replacing them with one of those two. However I will be keeping my DeWalt. I just seriously have to much invested in to them to just pitch it all.
they are the same as the porter cable tools, just with the craftsmen name on them now. people know the craftsmen brand better than the porter cable brand so SB+D decided to change the branding on their prosumer tools from porter cable to craftsmen. if you get the right model from both brands you can crack them open and see that they are identical.
@@mikecrabtree8200 I don't know, my grandfather has some old sears craftsmen sockets that were made in america and those things are harder than nuclear nails my step dad has some craftsmen stuff as well. I myself am more of a husky man... I mean the tools, not saying that I am fat. lol anywho husky is a lot like craftsmen in that they were both premium companies that went belly up and then the branding rights were sold to a big corporation. the funny thing both husky and craftsmen tools are made by the same company. stanley does all of the manufacturing for both husky and craftsmen sockets and wrenches, but the new husky stuff seems to be a lot better than the new crapsmen stuff.
Wish the Lowes near me had a better tool section. Their hand tool section is tiny, poorly stocked and poorly maintained. The power tool section isn't much better.
Im jumping off the porter cable train, probably going over the Milwaukee maybe ryobi I used their cordless 1/2 impact it it was decently small and light and more than powerful enough
Porter Cable is great for my DIY fixing stuff @ home, 99% of my pneumatic carpentry stuff is PC, couldn't bring myself to buy any Craftsman air tools. Unfortunately it's just what's happening in today's corporate world, brand loyalty only means so much until there's $$ to be made elsewhere.
That's a well merchandised lowes, the store by me is not in the same league, kudos to that manager
Seems like Bosch and Makita are the last non-conglomerate tool companies.
Bosh actually owns several other brands. Hitachi and Metabo merged and that is now one company. Hell HF is one company. OH and Hilti
@@denoftools Bosch does own a number of other brands, ie Vermont American, but no one else owns Bosch, and Makita, owns Makita, nothing else
I noticed cordless p/c drills today at advanced auto parts
I bought a bunch of the 24v Kobalt tools, they work great and the batteries are cheap compared to other brands. Hope they keep this line.
I still have six Porter Cable tools from the 80s and 90s (D-handle router, 1/2" drill, biscuit joiner, jig saw, circular saw, and the saw zaw). They have given me no trouble. I also had a couple of the early cordless drills, but sold them. These where really the first good power tools I had.
Sad to see the end of Porter Cable. I have their 23 gauge pin nailer
, and it’s fantastic. Do you know if the sanding drums for the porter cable restorer are compatible with the Craftsman?
I liked craftsman for its lifeti.e warranty it used to have
Having been Service Branch Manager for Rockwell power tools from 1968 - 1977 in both Indianapolis and Detroit; it's been more than hard on me to see the demise of Rockwell/Porter Cable. I've had my hands in many, many Porter Cable tools.
Ported Cable lost me when they orphaned my 18v tools. Ryobi got me with the backwards compatible lithium batteries & the tools are skookum for me. I like the high end stuff but can't justify the cost.
I hate to see this. Porter Cable, at one time, was the top of the line in power wood working tools. Their routers, sanders and biscuit joiners were the best you could buy, and probably still are. I have a 2 1/2 horse plunge router I've had for 20 years that has been used in a commercial environment and it shows no signs of stopping. It's a shame that Stanley/BD chose to sink it's vampire fangs into such a storied and well loved brand. The new stuff made since Stanley took over is not worth having.