THE FINALS Movement was nerfed !! But not how you think
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- Опубліковано 23 лип 2024
- Yes the Movement was slowed down. But not how you think
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TWITTER ►► / mokeysniper
DISCORD ►► / discord
MOVEMENT SUB-REDDIT ►► / thefinalsrollouts
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My the Finals vid about the closed beta
• Completely breaking TH...
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00:00 Intro
00:35 Sliding is complicated
04:11 Closed vs Open Beta vs Release
06:26 What does that mean for the game
#reachthefinals - Ігри
mokey gone from a pathy grapple tutorial to the designated video game movement guy
Are you reatarded? He know nothing about The FINALS and saying there nerfed movement when there none. its fucking same ffs
I wish more people in the gaming community as a whole were like you Mokey. So many people react to changes in a violently negative way and offer no constructive feedback. This is how we get changes in the games we love. Be like Mokey
Exactly. I remember when Apex devs were getting literal death threats a while back because people didn’t like something they did. People prefer to express their anger than help fix the problem.
I agree!
Bro its not most of the community people like you need to know that💀
with every beta test having played from the first, feeling the movement get progressively slower was heartbreaking
This isn't apex
@@DreadedLad88 and apex isnt titanfall, what is your point
@@DreadedLad88 this is a completely different sentence entirely
@@DreadedLad88 that's not his point. apex's movement doesn't have any bearing on whether the finals movement has gotten worse than beta
Ruined my whole experience with the game and uninstalled. Very disappointed and to get to ranked is ridiculous.
My guess as to why they nerfed sliding is because of how gunfights work in this game. If you are in a gunfight and run out of ammo, you can simply start running and sliding around without canceling the reload animation, which makes you a much harder target to hit if you are caught reloading out in the open. Not only that, but melee weapons were almost useless due to how easily you could run and slide away from a melee weapon user if you saw one getting close. This tactic was incredibly prevalent in the Closed Beta, since you got a speed boost from sliding. Currently, this tactic still works to some degree, but it's not nearly as useful as it used to be in the Closed Beta.
I assume Embark saw this tactic as a component of the ever-growing skill gap that they wanted to make smaller.
this^
Ew. Melee weapons require movement skill, that's how it is every time they appear in a movement shooter. Heavy is the only slight exception since they can rely on trapping, but it still applies.
I don't even think this comes down to the skill gap, sure you CAN fight with ridiculous slides, but now imagine all the lights who already mastered the movement in a week (and they WILL get better) get even more speed, even more evasion, and even more momentum retention from the grappling hook; I honestly think you could probably traverse most of the map off of a single grapple which is just ridiculous. I also think sliding giving you a boost in speed would quickly become annoying, as it was in CoD 2019, every noob was doing the slide cancel which would give you some ridiculous movement speed, and movement abilities from the slide point, that it became almost like a spray pattern from CS--aim at the dick because they're gonna slide as soon as they see you, then slide mouse down for 2 shots, then go to headshot height afterwards. It was so stupid because you couldn't take any fight seriously, it was either use the fastest shooting weapon, use 1 shot weapons, or use the spray pattern, nothing inbetween in a game where gun modding went hard (before everyone started using the 2 meta weapons...).
Kinda sad about the friction (though it was too low in closed beta), and I wish sliding was also simpler.
Imagine someone doing this on controller oh man the meta would be so boring to watch.
Good explanation, terrible design decision, imo.
At least it would give us something to do while reloading. Considering there's only 1 gun and half of them take ages to reload you end up just dancing around your oponents with no movement while relaoding.
And you can't really hide anywhere and reload because the game is chaos and someone always has an angle or can just jump out of invisibility and one shot you.
Jumping in and out of fight is good- because there's an objective to fight for.
But that comes from someone who strongly believes this game would be better without any melee.
Mokey coming in clutch as usual. Never would’ve figured out the complicated sprint sliding mechanics without you
Monkey shitting himself to make a video to spread false information
these slide changes were something i actually happened to notice among other things, one of the changes i noticed first is that you cant mantle bounce anymore, you used to be able to mantle any ledge and at the peak of your mantle hold any movement input and jump and get significant distance and slide out of it, you cant do it at all any more, only sort of half the same thing exists when moving forward still
You can, i happened to do it last night and was just practicing it in qp, it has weird conditions but if there’s a double ledge like a concrete pillar with a gate on top you should be able to boost off it
You can do it still, also works off ropes
I really do hope that the devs find this video. This critique is so detailed and informative and simple to understand. And hopefully the convoluted slide mechanics be addressed properly and not be avoided bcs of hey we reset the fov that's why the movement feels slow bcs of animation due to low fov
I hope they don't. Whats with everyone's obsession with turning every fps game into having movement like CoD and Apex.
@@quantumwitcher9376We are not asking it to be like that. We dont want tap strafe, neo strafe wallbounce superglide in this game. Nor slide cancels and dolphin dives. We just want it to be INTUITIVE and as the video mentioned LESS CONVOLUTED.
@@djethreii idk what those made up words mean seems convoluted to me, just bunny hop
I was worried they might increase ground friction...
the lack of friction is half the reason Apex feels so smooth.
That being said I think somewhere between CB and Release model is a happy medium to be met.
I hope someone at Embark gets in touch with you; if anyone could be the "movement ambassador" for us, it's Mokey.
IMO it's because they are still trying to figure out their identity as a game. They are going for a r6siege aspect for strategy and sieging/defending, but at first glance people treat it like its COD. This was probably a step in the direction of making it more objective emphasized and slower paced (which i think is the right call). They're dipping into a few different types of games and what they created was pretty unique, but struggles to find it's place.
I played both betas and really enjoyed the game. When I played the second beta I noticed I wasn't able to slide consistently which was odd. I figured out you had to hold sprint which I didn't remember having to do before and I'm glad that you confirmed that they did change that. Hopefully they change it back to how it was.
Wait it's still in beta?
@@hyperbannana9262 it's not in Beta anymore but there was a closed beta and then an open beta before the current release.
No the beta had the movement where you could slide from momentum not soley from being in a sprint. It's the full release that has this
He didn't confirm anything he even said that in the beta it wasn't like this, he is talking about the full release
@@nukedude2433 There were two betas. The first beta, the closed beta, when Mokey first made videos about the game let you slide regardless of sprint and direction. Later there was a second open beta where you had to sprint to side. This is the same as the full release, so you could slide with moment in the first but not the second beta. I hope that clears it up
THE MOKEY HAS SPOKEN!! Hope the finals rollouts subreddit gets some love now
He made one???
omagad, that could go crazy
something i noticed instantly when playing full release over OB, was that sliding felt completely different and harder to even pull off
Toggle sprint saved my marriage. Thank you Mokey
I honestly think the Devs speaking to Monkey Sniper about this would be a wonderful sign of the games longevity
This makes so much sense. Thanks for highlighting this. I now no longer feel like I'm going crazy :)
Keep on mokeying Mr mokey
Amazing work. I truly hope the devs see this video and consider reverting some of these changes. I'm convinced that some were not even intentional.
You have a gift in the perception of details as small as these. Excellent video ♥
2:07 Who tf holds ctrl + shift like that lmaooo
completly ignoring the fact he could use "c" to slide/crouch too
Nah I just use my pinky for both
I didn’t play CB1 but I did play CB2 and the Open Beta. Having to sprint to slide was definitely something I noticed in both, most particularly since they reset keybinds between each iteration and I had to change sprint back to toggle.
amazing video. direct critique with not a hint of actual anger towards the devs. I really hope they find a way to bring elements of old sliding back - some of those clips look like too much fun!
i had my keybinds the way you mentioned so i didnt even notice this change in the first place. thanks for explaining it!
I agree with your point about the fact that the slide not carrying momentum gets quite annoying. Especially when you have so much speed off of a jump pad or a zipline nowadays / in open beta. Although, I disagree that the slide should be how it was in the closed beta; there should be no increase in velocity when you slide as that would just result in everyone constantly supergliding around each other. Cool video, never saw what closed beta was like.
Left control can be a difficult one for crouching. I use C which allows me to avoid sprint toggle which I hate. I only played the open beta so I'm a bit skewed, but I don't think the movement is slow how the game currently is. With the long ttks already I think making it faster would be pretty annoying. I love to use movement in games but I want it to balance with good aiming practices and initial positioning too, and rn I feel that the game strikes a great balance between those 3.
Ive done some experimenting and I believe weather map conditions affect the kinetic coefficient of friction in a slide, it seems for example on monaco rainy I can slide about 10% longer on the same spot versus monaco non rainy. Which is honestly a detail I really like, I never played closed beta, but it looks like sliding was kinda crazy.
This video explains so much. I was wondering why my slides were being consistent. Also a tip for other games with crouch slide, instead of trying to hit shift and Ctrl with your ring and pinky fingers, just have shift held with your pink and "roll" your pinky down to hit Ctrl as well. I'll probably switch to toggle sprint in this game now though.
Love you covering this!
Ahh this explains why I didnt notice any slide initiation changes, Im already used to using my pinky for Shift and kind of flattening it to also hold crouch from so much Apex movement
Getting that much momentum for basicly nothing is a bit strong but the changes to when you can and cant slide seam more like bugs than anything tough out.
Tried the finals for the first time last night, maybe it’s the apex player in me but I noticed the sprint/slide issues IMMEDIATELY and fiddled with settings until I found the same solution you did! Great video Mokey!
Thank u i was waiting for this gem
Having crouch on a toggle vs holding is superior I believe. Buffering a slide with your crouch key allows for other actions with that finger rather than having to continuously hold the key. A couple of presses easier on the figure than holding for slides.
Very well structured video.
Didn't know you played the finals. Super awesome
Open Beta, I'm quite positive - did not have this fluid sliding like you're depicting. It was definitely changed for the Open Beta, so there's a good chance that the devs were pretty confused when people were saying it was "slowed down" from the open beta. People have (correctly) pointed out that the FOV was automatically set to 100 instead of the new default 70, which does make it feel faster. But what you're showing here is in fact actually far faster, and definitely different. I did the closed beta also, but I don't quite remember sliding being this wild? It looks really fun, and I would like to see it with that old movement system back in.
I knew i wasn't crazy to think how weirdly slow the slide jumping was. And I hate how I can't really look around while in the air because it'll mess up my slide when I land.
I never played the beta so my only reference for the movment was your videos.
All you have to do to do shift and control at the same time without it being awkward is to drop the middle part of your pinky, you’re not gonna spam crouch when you’re trying to spring the only time you want to hit crouch while sprinting is to slide, as long as you don’t have a stiff or sticky control key it works very well and is non disruptive
I like how you point out that many movement complaints are unfounded but then immediately use proof and a not toxic attitude to prove your point!
Interesting I already played with sprint toggle and crouch hold and the movement still felt amazing to me. Cool video.
bro why did i not get a noti for this i've been hard grinding the finals for days this would have helped alot when i was first getting in to it tyx yt
My favourite part i how he's casually jumping around off of jump pads and whatnot while his teamates are just dead, begging to be brought back
Hey Mokey, been watching your videos since I got into Apex and now I only play The Finals.
I'd like to take a moment to give some perspective for the movement. The difference between this game's movement and Apex is that the movement in this game is completely server side with client side prediction that lerps you to the position you input. Compared to Apex, which is client authorati which is why you get that rubber banding effect when your connection goes bad.
In a game like The Finals, you're technically inputting and watching your screen play out the key frames of an animation sent to you by the server. That's how the server sided destruction is also working. Compared to Apex where you can have tight movement and perfect control because your input is registered the moment you do it.
This might not be exactly how it's done but this is a strong hunch because of me being a game developer myself.
While I admit the movement was more fluid in the closed beta, it had severe input lag and was much difficult to control accurately. Would it have been nice to have more fluid movement? Yes, 100%. But given the technical reasons to make the movement more grounded, it still works pretty well in this kind of game where teamplay is more if a focus compared to solo plays.
Just my two cents. I could be completely wrong cuz like this is a hunch I have based on my game dev background, and the information I got from the devs on discord. So please do take it with a grain of salt.
PS. Making the game entirely server sided is no small achievement. Especially the physics if it all with the destruction and everything. I'm excited to see your video on the "secret movement tricks" :3
you can bhop out of jump pads too, idk if its from all surfaces or all pads but i certainly did and kept most of the momentum i had from the pad
You tell them Mokeysniper ...i feel the same.
I reckon the reason why it was changed was because of the insane rubber banding you'd do against ledges and the ziplines when catapulting towards a building because that issue ALSO disappeared going from CBT to OBT. It made climbing VERY difficult in the CBT.
I like it like this, it makes the gunfights more fun
Yeah the sliding is what I noticed the most by far. As a heavy player it was the most important tool for keeping up with my faster counterparts. I still use it but it definitely drags much more.
I've noticed that sometimes you can get a small boost when engaging a slide while not running. Like in a gunfight while strafing if you slide you might get a boost, not sure how exactly.
I played all the betas and since launch, and am very much a movement gamer.
You're quite right about the sliding controls being weird, not sure why that was changed and I feel like thats a just negative making it hard to land into a slide.
But your complaint about slightly lower slide momentum falls short of your point about wanting more control.
The way it worked before, giving that little momentum boost meant that you were much more likely to slide right off of rooftops by accident - because it you often *couldnt* cancel slide before it was already too late to stay on the roof, because you immediately got a level of momentum you couldnt negate with air control or friction.
It was also much harder to slide into roof windows because you'd always be going fast enough to just slide straight to the other side of the frame.
So in that regard, you've got more control now and that feels pretty good. But I get how good it feels to get speed. I feel like they could remedy that easily by just making slide speed cumulative.
CBT was very floaty and felt different, but in OBT they made things slower and changed behaviors.
Though seems they changed a bit more for Season 1 cause I remember vertical zip lines like in Monaco (or Stadium) you could jump away and land on the rooftops opposite of the one it's connected to, but you can't anymore.
I only started playing after the release, but the closed beta movement looks amazing. Also the jump to slide situation is really annoying. Thanks for making this video!
the gaming community needs more people like you
We need to send this video to embark
When it comes to sliding I use hold sprint and when I want to slide, I just flatten my pinky
I love how you incorporated the elements of a cringey youtube thumbnail into a smart design that makes perfect sense after you watch the video. Kudos.
I already run hold crouch/toggle sprint and i think that it explains why sometimes i get thrown off zips and other times barely get any momentum, but i still dont get why sometimes you get SO much momentum. Id guess somewhere around 1/100 times that i come off a zip in a sprint state it fuckin LAUNCHES me like 3-4 times the normal zip launch
I like the new way to trigger a slide as it gives me granular control and this is what I'm used to in other games.
But, they definitely should give an option to revert it to closed beta and make it the default as it is simpler to just hold Control.
I like crouch on toggle. It makes it more intentional when I want to perform a slide out of an action.
to add my little bit here you can slide/crouch using "c" by default which is much more comfortable than using ctrl. i thought everyone knew this
Its funny how less than 12 hours after the video went out the release patch 1.3.0 with this: "Animation improvements to movement feel to get closer to the OB experience"
As a person who does this and uses hold shift not toggle you can just lay your hand on control as your still holding shift the entire time.
Yea it really annoyed me how everyone was saying "they nerfed our movement speed" when I noticed nothing like that but I did notice the sliding nerf immediately.
They just have to revert sliding to the closed beta...
I don't know if it's in my head, but I have a feeling when I do slide jump that I go further and carry more momentum when I release my crouch before jumping from slide at the complete end of slide animation. Could you please test that.
I didn't play till the full release, my first instinct was that the movement feels very slightly off. I feel like with a few adjustments to smooth out movement it would feel significantly better
the image of someone pressing shift with their ring finger and strg with their pinkie is so confusing just press shift with your pinkie and and change the angle so you are pressing shift and strg... idk if this is just working for me (i think i have no bones in the top of my pinkie lol) but its way easier this way.
I've always played with sprint hold. Most games for sliding added a short delay to press ctrl slide from shift. Having toggle for aim or sprint or crouch just always felt super weird for me.
It had to to be changed due to them updating the mantling because the server handles player movement - thank god you made this video
Velocity-wise movement was nerfed but with each beta the game still played more fluidly because of the improvements to vaults, animations and input lag. I think I am fine with having no slide boost but less friction and a fix to the landing slide would be cool.
Wow this explains a lot, thanks.
The easier they make it to pull off ridiculous movements/maneuvers the less the game becomes about strategy, positioning, gunplay, tactics... which are IMO not only the most differentially positive aspects of the game, but also the ones that tend to measure skillsets on a more even playing field.
If it's easy to pull off that stuff than everyone can do it which would mean just the speed of the game would change. It wouldn't take away skill it would make the game harder because people are harder to hit if they move crazy.
stupid take. You never played light or at least at a decent lvl. Light is a complete throw pick in comp and has no use whatsoever when playing against a meta build. Heavy and medium are better in every way and the bit of movement light had is now gone which enforces the meta even more. I was top 1k in the open beta and also played in the closed beta and I stopped playing light as heavy just does everything but 10x better. Also the only viable weapon for light is now the shotgun which most people consider the worst as your consistency has to be out of this world. The lh1 was insane until they nerfed it on the release.
@@unded1827 I HATE when I’m playing solo queue and I get a light on my team in ranked tourney. It’s basically an automatic L. I’ve never had a light be a team player
@@unded1827 i like how you just forgot about the v95s existence, light is underpowered rn but its manageable, just bc you spam your dashes left and right, doesnt mean that people wont flick on you, cloak is the way to go you stun a heavy, kill them then go invis and team wipe a whole team.
@@redandsoulles132 theoretically... Realistically I don't think everyone wants to (or can) play that way
gained a new sub for sure ^^ thanks a lot for the explanation, please drop a new video about the new movement changing back to OB there might be some interesting stuff to discover even more
really mature take on the changes!
i agree with the points you made. i also wish zips were a little faster as well
This game is a ton of fun, but a lot of the movement feels so stiff. It's like the want movement but also don't. You can do cool things, but it ends up feeling more like jank than actual movement tech
That’s the best part about apex, despite a lot of movement nerfs over the years, the flow is still largely the same. You can wall jump over a ledge, climb back over superglide tap strafe superglide at a 180 degree angle, into a a bhop then lurch and PK someone from behind with no real stop in flow.
You can chain movement almost indefinitely if you know what you’re doing until you deadslide or collide with an object too hard 😂
@@RiceCubeTechoh man the dead slides
yeh this game isn't trying to be apex. and thank god its not because it would fall short. The game doesn't need insane mobility if they're emphasizing objectives and defend/siege mechanics. It doesn't go well together@@RiceCubeTech
I only played the open beta, and even than i felt how scuffy the movement was compared to how Mokey described it back in march
I like the new slide, but i hope to god they give us the ability to slide backwards again. I didn't use it much in the close beta, but for some reason, i can't shake the muscle memory and keep trying to find some angle that i can do it in.
I like the way it is now, it feels like I'm always in full control of my movement. I played in closed beta as well, feels nearly the same or better to me though.
I don't mind sliding being more situational rather then always what i should be doing.
Well light now feels rought and boring. If you had played light in the closed beta you know what its missing now
Light is still very fast and mobile, everything feels well balanced to me, it's a team focused game after all. Not to say they can't find a middle ground that we both enjoy and is balanced. @@unded1827
@unded1827
Yeah bro lights really needed all that extra movement with the highest movement speed, grapples, cloaks, and dashes...
@@zun-viikwhy are you watching a monkey video if you dislike moving fast lmao
I'd be interested in seeing a breakdown of who thinks the speed is fine and who thinks it's slow. As someone that didnt play it before release i think the movement speed is fine and definitely fast enough. seems that a lot of the people complaining in the comments here that it's too slow is comparing it to apex or the closed beta rather than just seeing it as its own thing
I played 2 betas and it’s definitely fine, this game is not titanfall.
But titanfall has the best movement of all FPS for me
same, played 2 betas and the game is really good right now@@sophisitcatedpsyco
OH. No wonder i can't hit a decent slide. Thanks. Mokey!
I knew there was something different about the movement!! Although the movement has been changed I still am having so much fun playing this game. Having a game to play that's similar yet so different from Apex is really fulfilling. I'm curious to see what changes or tweaks they'll do with the movement in the future and I hope this game can keep thriving and become something huge!
I like the change. It was needed
A scientific breakdown. A joy to watch sir!
Even since beta personally i've always had sprint on toggle but that is a lot of key presses for movement.
i personally feel that the new slide fits because 1 u can only slide far if moving fast and 2 sliding just doesnt give u momentum it only takes or conserves
I can understand sliding not giving you a boost, but the friction values are way too high for it even to be useful in momentum conservation from my gameplay experience.
used to have sliding on mouse 4. No point anymore because it's way too niche to use. It's almost always better to just sprint.
movement is much more boring when sliding doesn't have any value over just holding sprint, which makes the overall gameplay feel much more boring.
@trystenchristiansen2770 maybe they just want it to be a fight initiation thing
You shouldn't get a speed boost from sliding, friction doesn't work that way. It's cool to change the toggle stuff back in my opinion but you shouldn't be able to propel yourself forward if you aren't moving quickly to begin with. That boost from the CB looked ridiculous, like an evasive dash.
I vouch for Mokey, if any Embark devs are watching, this is the guy to talk to.
when i played the open beta i was really sad that the movement was so much slower then the videos i'd seen
I'm actually glad they made it less momentum based and higher friction. With how messy of the maps get it would get really cringe ramping off or down destroyed things on accident.
Ooff been watching some youtubers that say "Durr there was no change to the movement". Thancs for actually telling the truth.
Holding crtl and shift is normal to me I never knew i held my keyboard weird
I was also feeling like movement got nerfed and now I get it, I was projecting on about closed beta
while buttery smooth movement and momentum in video games is something i drool over, i feel like they could speed it up just a tiny bit to have it where momentum still feels cool and keeping the skill ceiling low enough for everyone to enjoy the game
have you found the mantle vertical superhop tech yet? idk if im the only one who knows about it
Wow! Amazing find man!
Hi, can you make a video tutorial to make 2 keys on the same bind? If it’s even possible
Mokey, movement and the FINALS in one video… say less, I’m in!
Just bind crouch secondary to c so that you can run and slide easily. Idk why this wasn't said in the video it's common in most video games now.
Yeah crtl hold and c toggle
I just angle my keyboard slightly clockwise (5-10 degrees) and for games like apex or the finals I can easily hit shift or ctrl individually or at the same time with my pinky.
you dont even have to bind it. its just like that by default i dont know why the video insisted that the only way was using ctrl which is way more uncomfortable
This is hilarious because my sprint toggle and crouch hold were already set to those options so I had no idea others were even missing out. I was kinda impressed some of the movement felt similar to apex and TF now I know it might be purely contextual and I'm grateful I was already there. Hopefully they don't nerf movement even with those settings on.
In the end, games can only try to mimic Titanfall’s movement and fail with degrees of hilarity.
I was using the pinky for both the sprint , crouch toggle sprint made my head hurt 😢
What about Auto run? Would u still have to toggle sprint on?
If you put crouch on a mouse button, you can do both hold crouch and hold sprint
It makes sense since we use auto-sprint in Apex Legends it would be preferred to have it on all the time.