A video just in time to hit 10k subs! (also foot notes and amendments in this comment) Notes: - Crouching helps with the stability and recoil of the MG-43 and Stalwart, even better if you have the armour that further reduces recoil! If you need to stay mobile and advance, I'd recommend crouching while firing! While going prone helps even more, I find in grassy maps, I can't see anything to shoot at... - The Gatling and Machine Gun sentry will always fire for a minimum of about 1 second. If the bugs were smart, they'd send cannon fodder 1 by 1 to waste the sentries ammo. - The HMG Emplacement actually hits pretty hard. While its surface stats are similar to that of the MG-43, its damage is much higher. I did a mech test once with the emplacement and it only took 15 shots to destroy it compared to the MG-43's 78. This is just speculation of course... - ALSO, while the HMG does technically have Medium level penetration, it has AMR levels of Medium Penetration, allowing you blast through Walker bodies, Devestators, and Hulk faces! (Very useful to know and might be worth bringing into bot missions at the higher levels (will find out)) - For those who want to know what the Mech's stats are: > Total Ammo 1000 rounds > 0.8s wind up time > 21 rounds/s > Max Sustained Fire of 47.6s > Medium AP (haven't had opportunity to test if can pen Walkers which would make it Med III Penetration)
Upon reading your test with the mech I decided to try, so I shot the left arm (Rocket L) while prone 15m from the walker facing me, Slugger 13 shots, HMG 13 shots, MG 166 shots. Both the Slugger and HMG can destroy poi containers, so they might have about the same PEN, while the MG can't so it has less.
It should be noted that the HMG has a higher armor penetration than the MG-43. The HMG has the same AP value as the AMR, the autocannon, the safe mode railgun, and the Las Cannon. This AP value does full damage to the 2nd level of armor (things like hive defenders heads, bile spewer head armor, devastator bots chest armor, Strider's joints), and is capable of damaging the 3rd level of armor albeit not many things have it (Strider's frontal shield, Hulk's head/eye, Shrieker nests). You still do no damage to the 4th level of armor which is what we normally consider heavy armor.
A simple crouch does wonders for the MG and Stalwart, and makes the highest RPM setting far more viable, assuming you fire in bursts. (Which you should) If you aren't on the run, you should always be crouching, you'll land way more shots and do far more harm.
When you are shooting a full mag to an horde of bugs and the helldiver starts to scream and laugh… that’s one of the most pleasant feelings on the game
Especially because grenade armor gives recoil mitigation, so you can kick it up to 1100 and crouch/prone for a very steady and easy to aim river of lead. Never complain about hunters again. Grab stun grenades to support your team, hit the way more efficient 500kg every single time instead of running rail cannon, and get easy flanks on chargers. Stun them and then mag dump on their explosive weak backside with the scorcher. It won't kill outright but they bleed out pretty fast. You don't need impacts for CC. It does suck to have to wait for a teammate to blow bug holes though.
rn my best bug loadout is the eruptor + heavy armor + stalwart + guard dog rover. Eruptor can kill chargers and biles by hitting their soft squishy bits, stalwart clears out massive hordes of hunters, scavengers, and warriors, and the guard dog rover can kill hive guards and watch your back.
If the MG-43 resupplied ammo better it would be the only support weapon I use. MG’s are the most fun I’ve had in this game. Hearing your guy scream and laugh like a lunatic while you turn swarms into mush, is the most satisfying thing in the game
I 100% condone the hatred for Stalkers :p Great video man. I’m convinced the devs made the in-game tooltips completely useless so that the community develops into something bigger lol, because it’s crazy how little info they give. Keep up the great work my friend :)
Stalkers are not a problem, they do not attack you in groups and half magazine of the Breaker is enough to kill em. Hunters howevere, OH BOY THE HUNTERS, they are EVIL incarnate.
@@Venom_Snake_dll haha i think they have input reading lol as soon as you put your aim on them they start jumping around and strafing xD But they go down real fast tho :p
I find it funny everyone has a problem with the lone stalkers that follow you and not the 300 hunters that come at you at once lol. Hunter’s are so much more annoying imo
One thing that should be noted, is that the HMG Emplacement has a High-Medium level of armor penetration, not just Medium; so about the same as the AMR. This means that it can damage things like the Strider Cockpits, Hulk Heads, and Shrieker Lairs, as well as dealing full damage to Medium armored enemies, instead of half, which, on top of being a higher damage already, makes it far more effective than it appears on paper. EDIT: Just read the pinned comment lol. This would probably be the explanation behind the increased damage.
It's still not as good as the gatling or auto-cannon sentries since you can act independently of them and as such are able to defend an area from multiple angles. HMG could work for choke points alongside the mortar sentry in bot missions however that is much lower utility.
4 thing with high-medium amor pen is autocannon, amr, laser cannon and hmg replacement. hulk head, flying bug nest, strider and heavy devastator shield is some example of these type of amor.
3:21 "No real reason to take the MG sentry" The Machine Gun Sentry has a higher turn rate than the Gatling gun, which is especially noticeable with the increased turn rate ship module upgrade. The Gatling gun also tends to waste ammo as it drags its firing line around to acquire new targets, possibly hitting allies. As a result, I believe that the MG Sentry's ability to hold multiple sightlines without significantly risking friendly fire makes it the most reliable sentry to drop in any situation. That being said, if enemies are coming from one direction, and you have proper time and angles to set it up, the Gatling's better.
It would be great with a shorter cool down. You make a good point about its merit though. I took a turret build into a bug mission and got swarmed by shreikers. The MG Sentry had much faster target acquisition and quickly shredded most of them, which allowed me a window to take out the nest. The Gatling sentry was taking out some of the direct dive attack shreikers but it was spraying a lot of ammo at times.
This is also my personal experience and preference. The lack of DPS matters so much less to me when the gatling burns like 2-3x as much ammo for the same amount of scattered chaff coming through a chokepoint Also I've never been killed by my own MG sentry, but I cannot count the amount if times the gatling has swiped across me while changing targets. It's even mission-killed my exosuits by breaking a leg so I couldn't turn at all! Tldr the MG sentry is a much safer option than the gatling is. (Anecdotally)
I've been using it with a full sentry strategem deck to grind common samples. It's ok and nice to have if the others are on cool down. I still wish it had a faster cool down because once i unlock rocket sentries i don't think I'll need it anymore.
MG-43 my beloved. Even at level 50 I still tend to bring it with me, definitely my favourite weapon in the game. Switching to higher RPM has saved me and my squad from getting swarmed by medium-armoured enemies time and time again.
I also love it since it I like to lay down near some cover with a buddy covering me when I am reloading or getting rushed and then just switch it to 900 rpm and just let it go BRRRRRRRRRRRR like a german soldier at normandy during D-day.
As my groups local machine gun/sentry chad, I've started using the incendiary breaker, Stalwart, Gatling and Autocannons turrets, and railcannon strike against bugs. The turrets and stalwart will chew through most groups of enemies, the incendiary breaker can deal with Chargers surprisingly well, and the railcannon gives you an option against bile titans or a panic button against chargers, if you're feeling desperate
@@kes_pocojust focus shoot the butt same as all other primaries, breaker incendiary just has very good dps with the fast-ish fire rate and the fact it does fire damage over time (not a lot, but still adds up)
I run mostly this as well. I only change turrets to orbitals or a shield depending on the level and the group. But at heart, i clear the small guys so my team can focus the big ones. And survive and reinforce
Scorcher is really amazing for spewers. I don't think I want to play with a primary that doesn't just wipe out any spewer that appears at any range. It also does extra damage to a charger butt. But what you really want to do against a charger is make it stop, then shoot into the yellow bit inside the top of the leg. It's only visible from the rear. A Stalwart kills a charger in under a second this way, I'm pretty sure.
The HMG sentry is wildly powerful for what it is. It's less x2 MG-43s and more like x2 baby autocannons or x2 anti-material rifles. It can kill Hulks from the front. Paired with the shield generator or shield backpack, you're also very durable. I agree the smol MG turret needs to have lower cooldown. Either that or triple it's ammo size to give it more than double the sustained fire of the Gatling.
If the mg-43 is based off the mg-42, the German 2nd world war machine gun, it probably fires 7.92, in comparison the sentry is a 50cal in line with the AMR which is probably supposed to be firing. Neat to see how there's some real world balance rather than x weapon is worse because reasons
@@eliaspanayi3465yes rl AMR uses 50cal or 20mm...the HMG does sound like a 50cal turret. Stalwart uses intermedite rifle cal, while mg43 uses full size rifle cal, aka 7.62, 30cal, 7.92 etc
I cannot begin to tell you how useful this video is to me; I am always ALWAYS the machine gunner in games where its an option and oftentimes, they get left behind and forgotten about in favor of more 'exotic' weaponry. I am so glad that as of yet, this playstyle is valid and useful throughout the difficulty levels. Subscribed!
If we're doing bugs, I always insist at least one of us bring a normal machine gun, it's insanely powerful against a surprising variety of enemies Great against bots too
When reloading the MG-43 you can use a melee to cancel the reload animation. Timing it until right after he dumps the old mag is a good idea as your character will pick up the reload at that point. I use this method of reloading a lot when kiting bugs.
One thing that is a pro for the HMG Emplacement, it destroys Hulks super quickly. The accuracy you get from it allows you to hit the centerpoint consistently and take down the mech in a mere 3 seconds or less. Had a friend mow down three Hulks in quick succession with the HMG Emplacement the first time he tried it out and he hasn't stopped bringing it since with great success.
HMG feels like it's doing more way dmg because it shreds everything with very small number of bullets, which is why it not should used "sustained fire". Also, it is ignored by enemies unless manned, does not trigger any breaches/dropships (as long as no one else is spotted) and it can kill a full Shrieker nest from any distance with a mag.
@@siveonfarcloud4190 Good to know about the shrieker nest, we hadn't tried that on it yet. Yeah continuous fire isn't needed because it damages so well, granted it is fun haha.
Does it have to go through the weakpoint or will it damage it over all consistently? Like I know you can maim Devastators like taking off their arms and stuff, but can you do that to hulks?
@@steeljawX Yikes I would have to ask, I believe it does have to be the weak point since the chest armor is heavy while the weak point is medium high since railgun and anti-material can do the same.
I haven't tried the emplacement vs bots. I will just get instantly rocketed from crossmap, I can already feel it. Pretty awesome vs bugs though. Just a shame the game is currently crashing if there are too many objects on map. So the obvious loadout of EAT + Emplacement is kinda asking to crash.
I don’t love the static reload. LMG kind of gives more bang for the ammo - I just complement the LMG with a primary weapon that does Medium Armor pen. Regular MG just doesn’t have enough ammo to be “jack of all trades” type gun with the kind of downtime it has
@anpan6282 the static reload is not a problem. If being chased, start reloading, dive out of the reload, run more, and finish the reload as it saves your reload progress The mg is imho better than the stalwart once you get to higher difficulties. Stalwart is only good up to a point
@@anpan6282 the static reload is, unironically, the best part. because is so strong you need something that limits it. it is something you need to play around instead of just playing like normal. It also ISN'T a jack of all trades, it's specifically a weapon that counters reinforcements vs using all the time. also, sometimes, you need that rapid Medium pen so you can keep a bug breach from getting too out of hand. the other primary medium weapons just don't fire fast enough to counter a swarm of hive guards, commanders, and bile spewers.
One of the massive problems with MG sentries is when fighting bots they will dump there entire mag into the dropship, which it can't even hurt. Really pisses me off when I see it happen.
100% agree on giving the more weaker or more awkward stratagems shorter cooldowns. Especially with how punishing some map conditions can be on higher difficulties. Being able to place a bunch of HMG emplacements over a 10 minute period defending an area would be sick.
It's always smart to have two people for crowd control and two people for heavy. The crowed control having MG and a stalwart. And the heavy having a auto cannon, and recoiless. That way you can save ammo by having everyone for everything. So the recoiless can focus on heavy. The auto cannon can focus on large to medium. And the two machine guns can focus on the smaller enemies.
for the MG sentry turret, i think it needs to get a significant advantage over the gatling, in one stat or another. I think either a significantly shorter cooldown or longer sustained fire time, would be good. For a shorter call-in cooldown, I'd try 90 seconds. Or for longer sustained fire time, id try somewhere between 300 rounds (upgraded) to 390 rounds (upgraded) to give it 27.3s or 35.5s of sustained fire, respectively. Or maybe being able to put down multiple at a time would be good. Similar to the un-upgrade Eagle Air Strike, we could throw down one MG sentry, wait 5 seconds or so, and throw down a second MG sentry. then there's the longer cooldown wait of 120s (or whatever would be fair). in this case, the two combined MG sentries would still have less sustained fire time than a single Gatling, still have less DPS than a single Gatling, but would have two angles to shoot from, and one sentry getting destroyed still leaves the second one able to shoot. MG43 support weapon also needs some love i think. maybe let it reload on the move just like the stalwart, or give it an extra magazine, or 200 rounds in each magazine. also i think it needs to reload more magazines per supply pickup. the ammo economy overall is rough for it, and between that and having to sit still to reload, im not sure the medium armor penetration is good enough for the trade off. Maybe 175 rounds per magazine, 4 total magazines, and resupply 2 magazines per supply crate... and maybe a 4.75s reload speed
Rounds per MINUTE is the standard for all weapons, so according to your data: Machine Gun Sentry: 660 RPM Gatling Sentry: 1,560 RPM HMG Emplacement: 660 RPM
Of course, they *just released* a new HMG barely a couple days after this released… 😅 It appears to be a demounted version of the emplacement guns, with a RoF selector equivalent to the MG-43. 75-round belt on it, so half that of the MG-43… Would need to test it myself.
Would love to see the mg43 get some hefty buffs to its ammo. Just a bigger mag size so you dont have to reload it every 10 seconds would be amazing. Or one more clip so resupplies can provide 2 clips. Id even love to see an optional backpack that it comes down with that auto feeds rounds. You dont HAVE to take the backpack like you do with other backpack weapons, but if you do then you never have to reload it.
Yeah both the turret and the handheld version are very lacking right now. If the MG43 is gonna have a stationary reload, it should hold more rounds. It’s ammo economy is so bad for seemingly no reason. Low reserves overall, low belt size compared to the stalwart, and 1 measly belt replenished with a resupply. That really sucks. It needs a little something.
@@coliax8754 Medium enemies are not worth taking a dedicated weapon for. You can kill them with light weapons easily enough. The sickle can take them out no problem so theres no need to swap to the MG43. Stalwart will always massively outperform the MG43 because of this in terms of DPS, let alone ammo economy, and a 5 second long immobile reload. This build would be a voluntary handicap at any of the higher levels. The point of the stalwart is that it trades armor penetration for a mobile reload. If you gave the MG43 the exact same ammo as the stalwart youd still see a lot of stalwarts running around because of how crap a 5 second immobile reload is on a weapon thats basically supposed to function as a primary. The liberator penetrator is a good example of what you're saying being completely untrue. Lastly, the reverse of what you said will always be infinitely better. Taking the stalwart with a primary like the slugger or scorcher for mediums will 2 or 3x outperform taking the MG43 for mediums and a primary for lights.
@@thoughtgaming492 nah, light weapons have issues with spitters and warriors while the mg-43 can just mow them down. My point is, that you cant give the mg-43 more bullets without making the salward obsolete
@@coliax8754 Yes you can. The stalwart not only has more than double max ammo of the MG43, but also only gets back 30% of what the stalwart gets back per resupply pickup. You could increase the ammo on the MG43 by 50% and it still wouldn't even come close to the stalwarts ammo supply, and it would still require a hefty immobile reload. Im not asking for the MG43 to have more ammo than the stalwart, Im just asking for it to have more ammo. For example, if the MG43 simply had 3 belt clips instead of 2 for a 600 ammo capacity total, it would not only increase its max capacity by 25%, but it would double its resupply rate. Even after this, the stalwart has 100 more ammo per clip, 400 more max ammo, and gets 200 more shots per resupply. All while being able to reload on the move. You're crazy if you think that would make the stalwart obsolete. Also spitters can be taken down with a single clip from a light weapon, and weapons like the sickle have infinite ammo. And a single clip of light ammo can take down multiple warriors easily. The stalwart can also take down spitters and warriors with higher ammo efficiency than the MG43 can. Source: I do this every game in helldive. I dont waste support weapon slots on anything that can't get through charger armor and neither do 90% of other difficulty 9 players.
Good video, nice work on the in-depth explanations. One thing I'd add is the actual armor penetration values. They are 2 for the Stalward, 3 for the LMG, and 4 for the new HMG. I believe it's 3 for the MG and Chaingun sentries and 4 for the HMG emplacement. Just to clarify, if a weapon's armor penetration is below the target's armor value, the projectile bounces. If it's equal, it deals 50% damage, and if it's higher, it deals 100% damage.
This is a great little guide, exactly the kind of content I've been wanting from the helldivers 2 community. A lot of the tools we unlock at the early levels of the game tend to get overlooked in favor of the "cooler" stuff, but having a simple machine gunner on your team is an invaluable asset. I always love it when the end-game stats show just how many shots I fired and how many bugs I've killed just using the classic machine gun.
The MG and heavy MG both suffer from worse recoil, mobility issues and low ammo count which makes them much worse for performing the LMG's primary job of mowing down hordes. Sure, the have medium pen, but what does that net you overall? A worse auto cannon? I would rather do one job exceedingly well than two jobs mediocre. There is only one choice when it comes to MGs and that choice is the stalwart. Useable recoil/mobility, massive ammo count and high damage make the stalwart the pound for pound best bug horde clearing weapon in the game. You don't have to worry about ammo, friendly fire from explosions, or range of engagement. I've been running Stalwart/Supply/EAT since day one and I have no intention of stopping unless they buff the other MGs. My teammates laugh when my stratagem line is all blue, but when an ion storm or jammer turns off their eagle strikes and they're all running around screaming I'm advancing with left click held down. The only thing that can push you back is if you don't have enough EATs to deal with bile titans or chargers.
The only difference I've seen between the turrets, mg and gattling, is that the gattling doesnt stop firing when switching targets. Ive seen the gattling swing 180° and not stop shooting. MG doesn't do that. Taking one for the other means you either sacrifice safety for fire power and vice versa. That said, Helldivers typically know where to throw the sentry and minimize the risk while keeping the turret focused on enemies. As for AA, I think both are about the same in effectiveness in terms of hitting the target so gattling is still the better option
I'd like to see the HMG's cooldown lowered to 90 seconds to match the shield generator. I feel like the Machine Gun could either get a boost to resupply amount or magazine size without treading on the stalwart's niche too much.
I agree that the machine gun turret should have a shorter cooldown or maybe the gatling could have less range. I also am wondering how the hmg deployment direction works. Is it always straight ahead of where you throw it? Important to know so you can place it most effectively.
Your timing on releasing this is about as good as my timing in 2001 when I told my parents to change the channel because "it's not like the other tower's about to get hit" lol Heavy mg
I prefer the standard machine gun with a supply pack to the stalwart + supply pack I don't like having to switch weapons to deal with medium armor enemies with how often you run into them on higher difficulties. If the stalwart was I primary I'd probably bring it more often but I stopped dropping with it once I went above difficulty 4
Quick note about the regular mg emplacement, it intentionally fires at smaller units first. Meaning it wont dump its entire magazine into charger plates.
Just something I've always noticed between the standard Machine Gun sentry and the Gatling one is despite having much more ammo, the standard one seems to last longer. I think it doesn't waste as many bullets on corpses and firing while turning as the standard Machine gun does by merit of it just firing slower.
The reason you use the MG sentry versus the Gatling sentry is that the MG sentry is more ammo efficient, especially on smaller targets. The Gatling tends to use more rounds than it needs, and dumps more rounds into nothing while it is changing targets.
very true, and they both can be used together for a full lockdown/full turret build for area defense missions. Machine Gun, Gatling, Autocannon AND Rocket sentries, all set up properly defending a certain area is VERY hard to get through.
The HMG sentry needs some buffs yeah but one thing it has it can one clip 3 shrieker towers (with a little extra left in the mag) which is bonkers on Blitz missions. Given how annoying shriekers can get especially if there are multiples sets, I have at times brought it just because it's around 20 seconds to remove a whole nest (3 towers) across the map on a relatively low CD.
Excellent breakdown! Happy that the sickle now dethroned the defender as the best all-rounder primary. It was too good compared to all the other assault and sniper rifles with the added benefit of being one-handed. As for machine guns, I still wouldn't take Stalwart since it occupies an invaluable support weapon slot that could be much better utilized using heavy armor shredders like the EAT or Recoilless.
Yeah the EAT/Stalwart combo works real, real well. You don't need to be toting around a big gun with the EAT, which leaves room for the Stalwart to clean up the trash, especially as you can reload on the move. Only issue is if you need more than those two shots, but that's when you either rely on orbital/eagle strategems or your teammates.
The gatling sentry is almost usless in higher difficulties because there is always a charger. If you don't have anything to take them out quick, then you just wasted your sentry. I hope they change it cuz the gatling sentry is so good against hordes, especially when you get overwhelmed.
I throw the gatling on high ground whenever possible to avoid this. I take one every drop because it gets the team out of overrun situations. I keep that recoiless rifle on me at all times lol
Okay, worth noting that there *is* a reason to use MG sentry over Gatling (and its similar to why to use default pistol over auto pistol) MG sentry's lower firerate means that it tends to use an appropriate amount of ammo, and can stop firing when it needs to. The Gatling Sentry tends, instead, to overkill massively, both wasting ammo on the floor and on dead enemies. This is especially problematic when you consider that the Gatling (and possibly also the MG but thats realistically irrelevant) doesnt stop shooting when switching targets. This sweeps bullets into the universe, hitting absolutely nothing. Tl;Dr: MG sentry is more efficient, if having a longer ttk. Gatling has short ttk, but wasted ammo. If you use Sentries as Panic, Gatling is basically universally better. If you use Sentries as Support, MG has a genuinely viable Niche. Hope this helps!
I want a minigun with backpack so bad, i know we have genuinely enough MGs and (especially with the upcoming "chainsaw")and yes combining them with the supply pack SHOULD make me happy, BUT STILL!
Stalwart + Supply pack to deal with the swarms of hunters and other pests, Scorcher to deal with Hive Guard and spewers and even do work aganist charger bums, then Orbital Railcannon and 500kg + stun grenades to deal with Titans and more chargers seems very solid. Only thing you’d be missing is bug hole destruction, hopefully your teammates can deal with that or the grenade pistol coming out soon would be great!
God I wish so bad that the Stalwart was just a primary. If I could pack a Stalwart with a spear or triple offensive stratagems + ammo backpack I'd be so happy
I agree with the cool downs being reduced for machine gun sentry and hmg emplacement, or another thought would be to increase the ammo of both of them to match. I always thought the machine gun had more sustained fire which makes it viable for holding a position for an extended duration. food for thought
I'm a big fan of the MG-43 machine gun. Why recommend a supply backpack for the Stalwart though? Deep ammo reserves are already a strength of it, you don't need to accentuate it any further. The MG-43, however, really benefits from its poor ammo pickup being compensated for by carrying a supply pack.
True - and a fair point! I was just highlighting how you can push the ammo efficiency of the Stalwart even more with Supply Pack - maybe even allowing you to use the 1150 RPM more freely for, if nothing else, more satisfaction of putting holes in anything.
Part of me wants to believe the MG sentry has some hidden stat we are unaware that makes it better than the Gatling at something (like damage or turn rate)... but part of me then remembers how bad some primary weapons are and how the starting pistol is completely obsolete when you unlock the machine pistol.... I cant believe how slow they are with balance patches.
Yeah the inter-weapon ballance is shit (hi there, primary machine guns) But it's slowly creaping to slightly better. They could do with some more patches there. Problem is the devs themselves seem to know less about weapon ballance than the players 😂😂
I will add my own thoughts. The Gatling sentry does have a habit of overshooting while engaging multiple targets from different directions even moreso than the MG sentry, meaning you can lose out on some of the Gatling’s potential. There is absolutely no reason to use the highest RPM settings for the MG-43 or the Stalwart outside of fun or if you don’t have a weapon that can’t stagger a Stalker efficiently like the Punisher or Slugger. Even if you have a target like a Devastator that absolutely must die, the improved RoF isn’t as worth it as sustained, accurate fire at weakpoints or limbs. An MG is better when pressing forward against Termanid chaff than the flamethrower, as you do not need to worry about constantly setting yourself on fire from fuel on the ground or backwashed into your face by Hunters.
As long as my teammates have strategems for the bigger bugs, i love running the gattling sentry, mg sentry and auto cannon sentry with my mg43. It's great for holding down objectives and not getting overwhelmed. Also 3 sentries if deployed properly can protect one another well which is great when you're on the run too.
Thanks! It's so good to see the numbers. Before unlocking both the gatling an mg turrets, I thought their differences would be efficiency vs dps, and was disappointing to notice the mg turret didn't have more sustain. The HMG emplacement seems to also need a buff, as it competes with the MG-43 for a stratagem slot while being even more stationary... perhaps it has better "medium" pen? still needs more.
As I'm learning from the wonderful comments here - the HMG Emplacement does indeed have better medium penetration! It has the same penetration as the AMR, allowing it to pierce through walker bodies, devestators, and hulk eyes. This might give it some purpose against automatons..
The HMG turret can solo all 3 shieker hives as well. Do note that if the turret gets destroyed while your on it you will die. Chargers are your worst enemy
Fuck primary Weapons! Just play Stalwart, Support Pack and max Grenades. There is no Bug Army stopping me anymore😂 The other two Strategem Spotts? 110mm Rocket Pods and basic Airstrike. No joke, I play that on difficulty 7 almost without dying and allways protecting my Teammates or just soloing BugHives etc.
For someone who makes so many tests I really expected you to notice that the machine gun sentry is way more efficient than the Gatling. The machine gun sentry hits while the Gatling wastes easily +50% of the ammo while turning. I'm disappointed. Especially from the outro. I'm actually sad. Open terrain MGS, CC Gatling, ~45° HMGE.
Why take the mg sentry? More MG! Duh! You and the mg sentry is basically the HMG emplacement that can shoot different targets! That is assuming you're also carrying an MG, both you and the MG sentry go to town on reducing the targets for the gatling gun. It's quite fun going MG, Supply Backpack, MG Sentry, Gatling Sentry. Hordes vanish quick!
2 Days and already out of date, due to the HMG gotten released. It is not good against Bots, either your 75-Ammo mag runs out too fast or the firerate is abysmal (450rps/750rps/1200rps). Also Medium Bots don't really die fast. Don't have experience with Bugs yet.
I've heard people swear by the Stalwart while completely disregarding the MG. Sure, the Stalwart does everything the MG can, except for one thing: killing medium-armor enemies. It is STUPID how fast the MG can just shred through Hive Guards and Devastators while the Stalwart just pings off uselessly. Another argument for the Stalwart's lack of penetration is "just use it alongside an EAT bro." See, that would be a pretty combo if it weren't for the fact you're giving of two of your four strategem slots to make up for your lack of armor penetration. Funnily enough, if you use the Stalwart-EAT combination, you end up with the same amount of mobility as the MG. The MG's main drawbacks are its inaccuracy (which doesn't matter because it's supposed to be a spray-and-pray weapon, not a sniper rifle) and not being able to move while reloading. That second drawback is HUGE, don't get me wrong, and a lot of people (rightfully) use the Stalwart instead because not moving in Helldivers = Death. That being said, if you use the Stalwart-EAT combination, you still have to call down the EAT, wait for it to come down, pick it up, line up the shot, fire, then pick up the Stalwart again. With the MG, you can just...not do any of that? Helldivers 2 is a COOP game. You have teammates who can (hopefully) back you up. As long as you make it clear that you'll clear trash mobs for the anti-armor bois, they'll do you a solid and kill the charger for you. As a side note, the Stalwart and Machine guns are objectively better against the Terminids than the Automatons for one simple reason: MGs are sustained fire weapons. Against Automatons, you want to be exposed as little as possible. Pop out of cover, take a shot, pop back into cover. You can't do that with MGs because their damage source comes from long, sustained fire. Against the bugs, this should be self-explanatory. Crank that fucker to max fire rate and let loose.
I'm coming out of a game, where I only took turrets: Gatling, Rocket Launcher, Mortar (the one that does damage) and Autocannon. I play with turrets a lot............In fact every game ^^ And to be able to use all 4, I take the LAS-5 FALSE We were in Infernal mode. My team thanked me because my turrets (in addition to distracting the opponent from teammates) repeatedly cleared large groups of enemies...including corrosive titans. And to use them to their full potential, I always look for high points so that they have a maximum view of the enemy. So, turrets, if used well, can cause carnage. And dear (maybe future) teammates, please don't stay in front of the turrets. They won't care if you're between her and her targets, they'll split you in two with a snap of their fingers.
I think one reason to take the regular MG sentry over the Gatling sentry is so that you don't cut down the rest of your squad with the higher rate of fire of the Gatling; the slower rate of fire of the MG means that someone could actually survive being in front of its line of fire if it acquires something on the other side of them where the Gatling would just destroy them without any chance for them to react, this means that the MG could be very useful as a panic button for high intensity situations where you have enemies all around you, but if you were to lay down a Gatling sentry it would just cut down everyone in the squad without giving them the option to maneuver. Additionally, even though it has less sustained firing time than the Gatling sentry, the MG sentry is arguably more efficient as it tends to kill enemies with just the right amount of ammunition before moving on to the next one where the Gatling will waste more ammo than it needs to on individual targets, this makes it exceedingly good at dealing with swarming enemies like scavengers, hunters, or rank and file bots. As far as man portable machine gun choices, I find I much prefer the MG-43 for its ability to chew through enemies with more armor and deal with lighter enemies with less ammunition use than the Stalwart, but I will not disagree that the Stalwart is useful as an ad-hoc Assault Rifle substitute if you're running a more specialized primary weapon like a marksman rifle or a shotgun, but I would not take it as a replacement for a primary unless I absolutely need to considering it takes up a stratagem slot and I thoroughly disagree with people who want it to be added as a another primary weapon instead of a support weapon.
I always use the MG sentry over the gatling specifically because the MG actually stops shooting while switching targets. Combined with the slightly higher turn speed, the MG sentry is much more useful and ammo efficient when thrown in less strategic areas, or when being overrun by a flanking patrol you hadn't expected, as it doesn't waste ammo and cut down teammates while swinging 180 to kill a random flanking scavenger
I like machineguns. On another note of bullet things, I wish the Guard Dog liberator would reliably reload instead of getting bugged preventing resupply or ammo boxes. Actually since you brought up Stalwart primary comparison, I would like to propose the idea of a Stalwart Guard Dog.
You forgot a few crucial things with the HMG encamp, it doesnt time out, you can have MULTIPLE down on a map without the others going away. When summoned outside of combat patrols will not attack it like they do a resupply/support weapon. Only thing that kills it as a charger/bile accidentally walking over it. It takes two bullets to take out grey bugs, 5 or so for broods meaning with careful shots you can take out well over 100 bugs per cooldown and if you drop them wherever you go on cooldown your efficiency goes thru the roof. Just being EATS and then you have 2 flex stratagems❤
Tbh they should reduce the regular MG sentry’s cooldown by.. probably a full minute, (180->120S) to set its niche as a somewhat spammable support tool to provide extra swarm-clear for an AT focused helldiver/team. But since all turrets share the same cooldown, the Gatling is objectively better in every aspect, and just deletes breaches until a charger shows up.
Imagine being able to carry two stalwarts, one each in your primary and support slots, but you're able to dual wield them while carrying the supply pack for an extra 2000 rounds, in addition to the 2000 rounds (1000x2) the stalwarts come with
Really wish the MG-43 wasn't so categorically worse than the Stalwart. The improved damage capability just doesn't give it a leg to stand on the second a player unlocks the Stalwart.
Hadn’t realised the Mg43 was anti-medium, if it had reload in the move or an additional box it would be way more use. Never used the summon manned turret as standing still is a death sentence and for what it does I could just drop ANY turret, eagle or backpack and gain far more utility for way less risk, it should fire at least twice as fast with maybe 50% more ammo AND have a bullet deflection shield for me to even half way consider calling it in. Anti horde is plentiful it’s the anti heavy that subsequently has to be fitted into the limited strat slots (4 minus any non-shared backpack/support items brought in). seriously, not enough teams share their support item call ins, that could be up to 6 additional direct damage abilities (orbital rails, pairs of 380 barrages to burn objectives, turrets/ems/500kg for “hard targets” (but more realistically 3-4 as people like a mix of items and no one wants to wait 21+ minutes for a support item. On that note, ALL the default stratagems in each field are woefully overmatched by items deeper into their respective pools (sole exception being the precision orbital which remains the most reliable orbital due to the big enough anti spawner AoE and low relative cool-down). IMO they could all use a 20-30% cool-down reduction odd their base value or in the case of the eagle strafe an additional use or bigger AoE.
Furiously clicking. Will edit after I watch Edit: OK, my own two cents is this. I was under the impression the basic Machine Gun turret was like the MG-43 and the Gatling was like the Stalwart when you look at their armor pen ability. If they both have the same Armor Pen and the Gatling is otherwise better in every other way, that is poor design and needs review. Since no one thinks the Gatling is an overpower strat, I'd favor a buff to the Machine Gun turret. The simplest buff would be to either cooldown reduction, increase its base damage or massively improve it's mag size. I wouldn't mind a massive boost to mag size and cooldown. It's going to be an early pickup for many divers. Making it fast recharging with a long lasting mag would be very handy for a noob with few strats to pick from, expecially since they will be on an easier diff. It would then still be viable on high levels with that recharge reduction even if it was more likely to get smashed before emptying it's mag. I could see such a turret seeing use on Helldive if paired with EMS strats. Freeze a bunch of bugs in front of this thing with those upgrades and watch it work. As for the Stalwart vs MG43, It depends on whether I run the ammo pack. The Stalwart has enough ammo effeciency to run without it and acts more like an OP primary weapon. As the man said, pair it with a medium armor pen weapon like the Slugger and you can handle most targets. Take a shield gen and be a boss. With the MG-43, I really like to take the Supply Pack. I use the highest rate of fire and just short burst most things, only going HAM when they try to overrun me. Since it has med armor pen, I can use the Defender as my primary and put hate on target when I am running away. Since you can't reload on the run, I carry stun grenades to prevent close encounters. With the engineering kit armor and Supply pack, you will have tons of grenades too. With the MG-43, I like to crouch/prone when practical. With the med armor, I put quick burst of fire on the enemy face. Med armor pen lets you smoke almost anything, up to Bile Spewers, but you have the option to empty the gun if you get rushed. I also like it with the EMS mortar, Just turn fields mobs of things into easy targets. I often don't take another support weapon if I take EAT. I can often find a MG in game and run with it. It's like getting 5 strats if you find it or the AMR early. While the machine guns may never be meta on Helldive, they aren't liabilities like some think. If you are packing stun grenades and have the Eagle Airstrike or 500, you can easily and reliably hit chargers with them. You will have most bases well covered.
Personally, I enjoy using the Stalwart alongside the Liberator Penetrator. The latter helping to make up for the Stalwart's lack of medium armor damage.
i really love the stalwart and mg43 but it feels like choosing them is trolling and setting yourself for failure most often than not, there's a constant and opressive NEED to dispatch heavily armored enemies which forces you to pick EATs/recoiless/quasar everytime in diff9
I love the starting machine gun. I know it's not that ammo efficient... but it just feels right. Until I have to reload... so I guess it's a love-hate relationship. Also, didn't know there's a way to switch the fire mode. Thanks!
Stalwart, Guard Dog Laser, Grenade Pistol (bug holes), Orbital Laser and I mix it up with any others but I would use Gas and Napalm but they are bugged unless your the host I appreciate the estimated numbers with the ammo on the sentries as well I was going to get that upgrade but decided to get MORE GUNS
I really love the HMG turret for defending the LZ from bugs on mid-low difficulty. It has a slow turn speed but you can mow down so many enemies if you place it right. I know the stalwart has better stats, but I always prefer the standard Machine Gun on 630 RPM with the supply pack to lay waste to most mid size enemies, bot or bug. The stalwart is nice but it doesn't pack the same punch. And you can time the reloads so you are reloading while behind cover. The reload isn't that long if you have cover from immediate danger.
An unintuitive and VERY important secret is that light penetration weapons still have their damage reduced by light armor (shown by white X hit markers). Med Pen weapons do full damage on light armor (Red X hit marker). Need to factor that in when comparing weapons between penetration levels.
I'd like to run machine guns more but they don't exactly kill chargers, bile titans or hulks. Helldive difficulty just makes dealing with those types of enemies your number 1 priority and thus I cant justify running them.
A video just in time to hit 10k subs! (also foot notes and amendments in this comment)
Notes:
- Crouching helps with the stability and recoil of the MG-43 and Stalwart, even better if you have the armour that further reduces recoil! If you need to stay mobile and advance, I'd recommend crouching while firing! While going prone helps even more, I find in grassy maps, I can't see anything to shoot at...
- The Gatling and Machine Gun sentry will always fire for a minimum of about 1 second. If the bugs were smart, they'd send cannon fodder 1 by 1 to waste the sentries ammo.
- The HMG Emplacement actually hits pretty hard. While its surface stats are similar to that of the MG-43, its damage is much higher. I did a mech test once with the emplacement and it only took 15 shots to destroy it compared to the MG-43's 78. This is just speculation of course...
- ALSO, while the HMG does technically have Medium level penetration, it has AMR levels of Medium Penetration, allowing you blast through Walker bodies, Devestators, and Hulk faces! (Very useful to know and might be worth bringing into bot missions at the higher levels (will find out))
- For those who want to know what the Mech's stats are:
> Total Ammo 1000 rounds
> 0.8s wind up time
> 21 rounds/s
> Max Sustained Fire of 47.6s
> Medium AP (haven't had opportunity to test if can pen Walkers which would make it Med III Penetration)
Upon reading your test with the mech I decided to try, so I shot the left arm (Rocket L) while prone 15m from the walker facing me, Slugger 13 shots, HMG 13 shots, MG 166 shots.
Both the Slugger and HMG can destroy poi containers, so they might have about the same PEN, while the MG can't so it has less.
It should be noted that the HMG has a higher armor penetration than the MG-43. The HMG has the same AP value as the AMR, the autocannon, the safe mode railgun, and the Las Cannon.
This AP value does full damage to the 2nd level of armor (things like hive defenders heads, bile spewer head armor, devastator bots chest armor, Strider's joints), and is capable of damaging the 3rd level of armor albeit not many things have it (Strider's frontal shield, Hulk's head/eye, Shrieker nests). You still do no damage to the 4th level of armor which is what we normally consider heavy armor.
@@josephburchanowski4636Yeap, reading through the comments tells me the same thing! Will update my pinned comment to reflect that!
A simple crouch does wonders for the MG and Stalwart, and makes the highest RPM setting far more viable, assuming you fire in bursts. (Which you should)
If you aren't on the run, you should always be crouching, you'll land way more shots and do far more harm.
I saw someone test damage of few guns with shield generator relay and Stal has about 55 damage while MG-43 is 80 and HMG sits at 200 damage per shot
When you are shooting a full mag to an horde of bugs and the helldiver starts to scream and laugh… that’s one of the most pleasant feelings on the game
I only get that from the machine gun. ❤
oh ya
Also flamethrower
Tbh, Stalwart + Supply Pack + EAT-17 + grenade armour + Scorcher/Slugger sounds like a fucking AWESOME bug loadout
Especially because grenade armor gives recoil mitigation, so you can kick it up to 1100 and crouch/prone for a very steady and easy to aim river of lead. Never complain about hunters again.
Grab stun grenades to support your team, hit the way more efficient 500kg every single time instead of running rail cannon, and get easy flanks on chargers. Stun them and then mag dump on their explosive weak backside with the scorcher. It won't kill outright but they bleed out pretty fast. You don't need impacts for CC. It does suck to have to wait for a teammate to blow bug holes though.
Honestly with the EAT cooldown being so low, I just run it and load up on orbital and Eagle stratagems since the sickle doesn't use ammo
I have been running this, but guard dog instead of supply pack
rn my best bug loadout is the eruptor + heavy armor + stalwart + guard dog rover. Eruptor can kill chargers and biles by hitting their soft squishy bits, stalwart clears out massive hordes of hunters, scavengers, and warriors, and the guard dog rover can kill hive guards and watch your back.
If the MG-43 resupplied ammo better it would be the only support weapon I use. MG’s are the most fun I’ve had in this game. Hearing your guy scream and laugh like a lunatic while you turn swarms into mush, is the most satisfying thing in the game
When the bug is fixed with the mew module you’ll have your wish
I 100% condone the hatred for Stalkers :p
Great video man. I’m convinced the devs made the in-game tooltips completely useless so that the community develops into something bigger lol, because it’s crazy how little info they give. Keep up the great work my friend :)
Stalkers are not a problem, they do not attack you in groups and half magazine of the Breaker is enough to kill em. Hunters howevere, OH BOY THE HUNTERS, they are EVIL incarnate.
@@Venom_Snake_dll haha i think they have input reading lol as soon as you put your aim on them they start jumping around and strafing xD
But they go down real fast tho :p
Same. I like how secondaries are ultimately silent
Sounds like you aren’t listening to the B R A S C H T A C T I C S
I find it funny everyone has a problem with the lone stalkers that follow you and not the 300 hunters that come at you at once lol. Hunter’s are so much more annoying imo
One thing that should be noted, is that the HMG Emplacement has a High-Medium level of armor penetration, not just Medium; so about the same as the AMR.
This means that it can damage things like the Strider Cockpits, Hulk Heads, and Shrieker Lairs, as well as dealing full damage to Medium armored enemies, instead of half, which, on top of being a higher damage already, makes it far more effective than it appears on paper.
EDIT: Just read the pinned comment lol. This would probably be the explanation behind the increased damage.
It's still not as good as the gatling or auto-cannon sentries since you can act independently of them and as such are able to defend an area from multiple angles. HMG could work for choke points alongside the mortar sentry in bot missions however that is much lower utility.
4 thing with high-medium amor pen is autocannon, amr, laser cannon and hmg replacement. hulk head, flying bug nest, strider and heavy devastator shield is some example of these type of amor.
@@anhnguyentuan8035 That's a good point; I didn't think about that. I'll add those to the comment.
@@anitaremenarova6662I would be good with it if it had frontal armor a gunsite and cooldown around 100 to 120
@@Raven5431 You can use it with the shield generator but I agree that the cooldown is too long for needing an operator.
3:21 "No real reason to take the MG sentry" The Machine Gun Sentry has a higher turn rate than the Gatling gun, which is especially noticeable with the increased turn rate ship module upgrade. The Gatling gun also tends to waste ammo as it drags its firing line around to acquire new targets, possibly hitting allies. As a result, I believe that the MG Sentry's ability to hold multiple sightlines without significantly risking friendly fire makes it the most reliable sentry to drop in any situation. That being said, if enemies are coming from one direction, and you have proper time and angles to set it up, the Gatling's better.
It would be great with a shorter cool down. You make a good point about its merit though. I took a turret build into a bug mission and got swarmed by shreikers. The MG Sentry had much faster target acquisition and quickly shredded most of them, which allowed me a window to take out the nest. The Gatling sentry was taking out some of the direct dive attack shreikers but it was spraying a lot of ammo at times.
This is also my personal experience and preference. The lack of DPS matters so much less to me when the gatling burns like 2-3x as much ammo for the same amount of scattered chaff coming through a chokepoint
Also I've never been killed by my own MG sentry, but I cannot count the amount if times the gatling has swiped across me while changing targets. It's even mission-killed my exosuits by breaking a leg so I couldn't turn at all!
Tldr the MG sentry is a much safer option than the gatling is.
(Anecdotally)
I've been using it with a full sentry strategem deck to grind common samples. It's ok and nice to have if the others are on cool down. I still wish it had a faster cool down because once i unlock rocket sentries i don't think I'll need it anymore.
@archmagosavagadro5420 you'll need it. The rocket Sentry sucks. The Auto Cannon is the DPS king.
also, MG sentry is less likely to kill you as it doesnt keep firing while switching targets
MG-43 my beloved.
Even at level 50 I still tend to bring it with me, definitely my favourite weapon in the game.
Switching to higher RPM has saved me and my squad from getting swarmed by medium-armoured enemies time and time again.
I also love it since it I like to lay down near some cover with a buddy covering me when I am reloading or getting rushed and then just switch it to 900 rpm and just let it go BRRRRRRRRRRRR like a german soldier at normandy during D-day.
I had no idea you could switch fire rate
@@eliaspanayi3465same i have no idea until i watched this video
I really want to like the MG43 but ever since I started running slugger alongside stalwart I can’t go back, honestly it needs an ammo or reload buff
Sorry I just ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️➡️
As my groups local machine gun/sentry chad, I've started using the incendiary breaker, Stalwart, Gatling and Autocannons turrets, and railcannon strike against bugs. The turrets and stalwart will chew through most groups of enemies, the incendiary breaker can deal with Chargers surprisingly well, and the railcannon gives you an option against bile titans or a panic button against chargers, if you're feeling desperate
Incendiary breaker can deal with Chargers? Mind sharing the engagement strategy? :O
@@kes_pocojust focus shoot the butt same as all other primaries, breaker incendiary just has very good dps with the fast-ish fire rate and the fact it does fire damage over time (not a lot, but still adds up)
I run mostly this as well. I only change turrets to orbitals or a shield depending on the level and the group. But at heart, i clear the small guys so my team can focus the big ones. And survive and reinforce
@kes_poco combine it with some HE grenades and its better.
Scorcher is really amazing for spewers. I don't think I want to play with a primary that doesn't just wipe out any spewer that appears at any range. It also does extra damage to a charger butt.
But what you really want to do against a charger is make it stop, then shoot into the yellow bit inside the top of the leg. It's only visible from the rear. A Stalwart kills a charger in under a second this way, I'm pretty sure.
The HMG sentry is wildly powerful for what it is. It's less x2 MG-43s and more like x2 baby autocannons or x2 anti-material rifles. It can kill Hulks from the front. Paired with the shield generator or shield backpack, you're also very durable.
I agree the smol MG turret needs to have lower cooldown. Either that or triple it's ammo size to give it more than double the sustained fire of the Gatling.
If the mg-43 is based off the mg-42, the German 2nd world war machine gun, it probably fires 7.92, in comparison the sentry is a 50cal in line with the AMR which is probably supposed to be firing. Neat to see how there's some real world balance rather than x weapon is worse because reasons
That shield emplacement and HMG combo is absolutely hilarious against bots!
@@eliaspanayi3465*Erika song plays*
@@eliaspanayi3465yes rl AMR uses 50cal or 20mm...the HMG does sound like a 50cal turret. Stalwart uses intermedite rifle cal, while mg43 uses full size rifle cal, aka 7.62, 30cal, 7.92 etc
I cannot begin to tell you how useful this video is to me; I am always ALWAYS the machine gunner in games where its an option and oftentimes, they get left behind and forgotten about in favor of more 'exotic' weaponry. I am so glad that as of yet, this playstyle is valid and useful throughout the difficulty levels. Subscribed!
If we're doing bugs, I always insist at least one of us bring a normal machine gun, it's insanely powerful against a surprising variety of enemies
Great against bots too
When reloading the MG-43 you can use a melee to cancel the reload animation. Timing it until right after he dumps the old mag is a good idea as your character will pick up the reload at that point. I use this method of reloading a lot when kiting bugs.
Oh nice! Learned something!
One thing that is a pro for the HMG Emplacement, it destroys Hulks super quickly. The accuracy you get from it allows you to hit the centerpoint consistently and take down the mech in a mere 3 seconds or less. Had a friend mow down three Hulks in quick succession with the HMG Emplacement the first time he tried it out and he hasn't stopped bringing it since with great success.
HMG feels like it's doing more way dmg because it shreds everything with very small number of bullets, which is why it not should used "sustained fire".
Also, it is ignored by enemies unless manned, does not trigger any breaches/dropships (as long as no one else is spotted) and it can kill a full Shrieker nest from any distance with a mag.
@@siveonfarcloud4190 Good to know about the shrieker nest, we hadn't tried that on it yet. Yeah continuous fire isn't needed because it damages so well, granted it is fun haha.
Does it have to go through the weakpoint or will it damage it over all consistently? Like I know you can maim Devastators like taking off their arms and stuff, but can you do that to hulks?
@@steeljawX Yikes I would have to ask, I believe it does have to be the weak point since the chest armor is heavy while the weak point is medium high since railgun and anti-material can do the same.
I haven't tried the emplacement vs bots. I will just get instantly rocketed from crossmap, I can already feel it.
Pretty awesome vs bugs though. Just a shame the game is currently crashing if there are too many objects on map. So the obvious loadout of EAT + Emplacement is kinda asking to crash.
i love the MG more then the LMG. the medium pen just absolutely wrecks and cuts through all the bugs like butter.
I don’t love the static reload. LMG kind of gives more bang for the ammo - I just complement the LMG with a primary weapon that does Medium Armor pen. Regular MG just doesn’t have enough ammo to be “jack of all trades” type gun with the kind of downtime it has
@anpan6282 the static reload is not a problem. If being chased, start reloading, dive out of the reload, run more, and finish the reload as it saves your reload progress
The mg is imho better than the stalwart once you get to higher difficulties. Stalwart is only good up to a point
@@anpan6282 the static reload is, unironically, the best part. because is so strong you need something that limits it. it is something you need to play around instead of just playing like normal. It also ISN'T a jack of all trades, it's specifically a weapon that counters reinforcements vs using all the time. also, sometimes, you need that rapid Medium pen so you can keep a bug breach from getting too out of hand. the other primary medium weapons just don't fire fast enough to counter a swarm of hive guards, commanders, and bile spewers.
@@lupvirga that’s fair. I’ll need to play around with it more
@@lupvirga I dig it. I like the idea of a powerful firearm with mobility trade-offs, ideal for supporting a squad.
Scorcher+Stalwart is neat.
One of the massive problems with MG sentries is when fighting bots they will dump there entire mag into the dropship, which it can't even hurt. Really pisses me off when I see it happen.
100% agree on giving the more weaker or more awkward stratagems shorter cooldowns. Especially with how punishing some map conditions can be on higher difficulties. Being able to place a bunch of HMG emplacements over a 10 minute period defending an area would be sick.
It's always smart to have two people for crowd control and two people for heavy.
The crowed control having MG and a stalwart.
And the heavy having a auto cannon, and recoiless.
That way you can save ammo by having everyone for everything.
So the recoiless can focus on heavy.
The auto cannon can focus on large to medium.
And the two machine guns can focus on the smaller enemies.
And don't forget the MG people to always carry an EAT
The Stalwart is exactly what it's name implies. Simple reliability.
Reliably out of ammo
MG-43 needs some love holy shit
for the MG sentry turret, i think it needs to get a significant advantage over the gatling, in one stat or another. I think either a significantly shorter cooldown or longer sustained fire time, would be good. For a shorter call-in cooldown, I'd try 90 seconds. Or for longer sustained fire time, id try somewhere between 300 rounds (upgraded) to 390 rounds (upgraded) to give it 27.3s or 35.5s of sustained fire, respectively.
Or maybe being able to put down multiple at a time would be good. Similar to the un-upgrade Eagle Air Strike, we could throw down one MG sentry, wait 5 seconds or so, and throw down a second MG sentry. then there's the longer cooldown wait of 120s (or whatever would be fair). in this case, the two combined MG sentries would still have less sustained fire time than a single Gatling, still have less DPS than a single Gatling, but would have two angles to shoot from, and one sentry getting destroyed still leaves the second one able to shoot.
MG43 support weapon also needs some love i think. maybe let it reload on the move just like the stalwart, or give it an extra magazine, or 200 rounds in each magazine. also i think it needs to reload more magazines per supply pickup. the ammo economy overall is rough for it, and between that and having to sit still to reload, im not sure the medium armor penetration is good enough for the trade off. Maybe 175 rounds per magazine, 4 total magazines, and resupply 2 magazines per supply crate... and maybe a 4.75s reload speed
Rounds per MINUTE is the standard for all weapons, so according to your data:
Machine Gun Sentry: 660 RPM
Gatling Sentry: 1,560 RPM
HMG Emplacement: 660 RPM
Of course, they *just released* a new HMG barely a couple days after this released… 😅
It appears to be a demounted version of the emplacement guns, with a RoF selector equivalent to the MG-43. 75-round belt on it, so half that of the MG-43… Would need to test it myself.
poor MG43 needs more ammo.
The MG-101 waking in 3 days later
Would love to see the mg43 get some hefty buffs to its ammo. Just a bigger mag size so you dont have to reload it every 10 seconds would be amazing. Or one more clip so resupplies can provide 2 clips. Id even love to see an optional backpack that it comes down with that auto feeds rounds. You dont HAVE to take the backpack like you do with other backpack weapons, but if you do then you never have to reload it.
Yeah both the turret and the handheld version are very lacking right now.
If the MG43 is gonna have a stationary reload, it should hold more rounds. It’s ammo economy is so bad for seemingly no reason. Low reserves overall, low belt size compared to the stalwart, and 1 measly belt replenished with a resupply. That really sucks. It needs a little something.
That would be too strong. MG-43 has medium armor piercing, so pair it with a stickle for light enemies and you wont have ammo problems anymore
@@coliax8754 Medium enemies are not worth taking a dedicated weapon for. You can kill them with light weapons easily enough. The sickle can take them out no problem so theres no need to swap to the MG43.
Stalwart will always massively outperform the MG43 because of this in terms of DPS, let alone ammo economy, and a 5 second long immobile reload. This build would be a voluntary handicap at any of the higher levels.
The point of the stalwart is that it trades armor penetration for a mobile reload. If you gave the MG43 the exact same ammo as the stalwart youd still see a lot of stalwarts running around because of how crap a 5 second immobile reload is on a weapon thats basically supposed to function as a primary.
The liberator penetrator is a good example of what you're saying being completely untrue.
Lastly, the reverse of what you said will always be infinitely better. Taking the stalwart with a primary like the slugger or scorcher for mediums will 2 or 3x outperform taking the MG43 for mediums and a primary for lights.
@@thoughtgaming492 nah, light weapons have issues with spitters and warriors while the mg-43 can just mow them down. My point is, that you cant give the mg-43 more bullets without making the salward obsolete
@@coliax8754 Yes you can. The stalwart not only has more than double max ammo of the MG43, but also only gets back 30% of what the stalwart gets back per resupply pickup. You could increase the ammo on the MG43 by 50% and it still wouldn't even come close to the stalwarts ammo supply, and it would still require a hefty immobile reload.
Im not asking for the MG43 to have more ammo than the stalwart, Im just asking for it to have more ammo. For example, if the MG43 simply had 3 belt clips instead of 2 for a 600 ammo capacity total, it would not only increase its max capacity by 25%, but it would double its resupply rate. Even after this, the stalwart has 100 more ammo per clip, 400 more max ammo, and gets 200 more shots per resupply. All while being able to reload on the move. You're crazy if you think that would make the stalwart obsolete.
Also spitters can be taken down with a single clip from a light weapon, and weapons like the sickle have infinite ammo. And a single clip of light ammo can take down multiple warriors easily. The stalwart can also take down spitters and warriors with higher ammo efficiency than the MG43 can.
Source: I do this every game in helldive. I dont waste support weapon slots on anything that can't get through charger armor and neither do 90% of other difficulty 9 players.
I use the Machine Gun turret for its faster turn speed. It really saves your ass
Good video, nice work on the in-depth explanations. One thing I'd add is the actual armor penetration values. They are 2 for the Stalward, 3 for the LMG, and 4 for the new HMG. I believe it's 3 for the MG and Chaingun sentries and 4 for the HMG emplacement.
Just to clarify, if a weapon's armor penetration is below the target's armor value, the projectile bounces. If it's equal, it deals 50% damage, and if it's higher, it deals 100% damage.
This is a great little guide, exactly the kind of content I've been wanting from the helldivers 2 community. A lot of the tools we unlock at the early levels of the game tend to get overlooked in favor of the "cooler" stuff, but having a simple machine gunner on your team is an invaluable asset. I always love it when the end-game stats show just how many shots I fired and how many bugs I've killed just using the classic machine gun.
The MG and heavy MG both suffer from worse recoil, mobility issues and low ammo count which makes them much worse for performing the LMG's primary job of mowing down hordes. Sure, the have medium pen, but what does that net you overall? A worse auto cannon? I would rather do one job exceedingly well than two jobs mediocre.
There is only one choice when it comes to MGs and that choice is the stalwart. Useable recoil/mobility, massive ammo count and high damage make the stalwart the pound for pound best bug horde clearing weapon in the game. You don't have to worry about ammo, friendly fire from explosions, or range of engagement. I've been running Stalwart/Supply/EAT since day one and I have no intention of stopping unless they buff the other MGs.
My teammates laugh when my stratagem line is all blue, but when an ion storm or jammer turns off their eagle strikes and they're all running around screaming I'm advancing with left click held down. The only thing that can push you back is if you don't have enough EATs to deal with bile titans or chargers.
Wow i REALLY didnt know how big of an ammo difference the Stalwart had over the Machinegun!
The only difference I've seen between the turrets, mg and gattling, is that the gattling doesnt stop firing when switching targets. Ive seen the gattling swing 180° and not stop shooting. MG doesn't do that. Taking one for the other means you either sacrifice safety for fire power and vice versa. That said, Helldivers typically know where to throw the sentry and minimize the risk while keeping the turret focused on enemies. As for AA, I think both are about the same in effectiveness in terms of hitting the target so gattling is still the better option
I'd like to see the HMG's cooldown lowered to 90 seconds to match the shield generator. I feel like the Machine Gun could either get a boost to resupply amount or magazine size without treading on the stalwart's niche too much.
Idea to bring the Stalwart back to primary status, make it magazine count and efficiency the same as the Machine Gun
I agree that the machine gun turret should have a shorter cooldown or maybe the gatling could have less range. I also am wondering how the hmg deployment direction works. Is it always straight ahead of where you throw it? Important to know so you can place it most effectively.
I saw this video in my recommendations and 2 days later the HMG support weapon drops. Lmao.
But the flamethrower can roast a chargers leg in a few seconds, killing it, and burn entire hordes. MG needs a buff
Your timing on releasing this is about as good as my timing in 2001 when I told my parents to change the channel because "it's not like the other tower's about to get hit" lol
Heavy mg
I KNOW! AND I WAS A AWAY ON HOLIDAY TOO!
I prefer the standard machine gun with a supply pack to the stalwart + supply pack I don't like having to switch weapons to deal with medium armor enemies with how often you run into them on higher difficulties. If the stalwart was I primary I'd probably bring it more often but I stopped dropping with it once I went above difficulty 4
Quick note about the regular mg emplacement, it intentionally fires at smaller units first. Meaning it wont dump its entire magazine into charger plates.
Just something I've always noticed between the standard Machine Gun sentry and the Gatling one is despite having much more ammo, the standard one seems to last longer. I think it doesn't waste as many bullets on corpses and firing while turning as the standard Machine gun does by merit of it just firing slower.
I want them to just make the turret's ammo infinite like in Hd1. It would compensate for the paper their made of
The reason you use the MG sentry versus the Gatling sentry is that the MG sentry is more ammo efficient, especially on smaller targets. The Gatling tends to use more rounds than it needs, and dumps more rounds into nothing while it is changing targets.
very true, and they both can be used together for a full lockdown/full turret build for area defense missions. Machine Gun, Gatling, Autocannon AND Rocket sentries, all set up properly defending a certain area is VERY hard to get through.
I like the machinegun but the stalwart is so good to kill light armor enemies gives me adrenaline rush every time!
Im using the sentry turrets as decoy to pull out all bugs from a nest to close the holes or destroying all eggs. Works great.
The HMG sentry needs some buffs yeah but one thing it has it can one clip 3 shrieker towers (with a little extra left in the mag) which is bonkers on Blitz missions.
Given how annoying shriekers can get especially if there are multiples sets, I have at times brought it just because it's around 20 seconds to remove a whole nest (3 towers) across the map on a relatively low CD.
Extremely good work and very informative, thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent breakdown! Happy that the sickle now dethroned the defender as the best all-rounder primary. It was too good compared to all the other assault and sniper rifles with the added benefit of being one-handed. As for machine guns, I still wouldn't take Stalwart since it occupies an invaluable support weapon slot that could be much better utilized using heavy armor shredders like the EAT or Recoilless.
commenting so more people can see this video, incredible information
God I wish the Machine Gun Sentry had more ammo. I like how it doesn't swivel while firing like the gatling does.
Yeah the EAT/Stalwart combo works real, real well. You don't need to be toting around a big gun with the EAT, which leaves room for the Stalwart to clean up the trash, especially as you can reload on the move. Only issue is if you need more than those two shots, but that's when you either rely on orbital/eagle strategems or your teammates.
The gatling sentry is almost usless in higher difficulties because there is always a charger. If you don't have anything to take them out quick, then you just wasted your sentry. I hope they change it cuz the gatling sentry is so good against hordes, especially when you get overwhelmed.
I throw the gatling on high ground whenever possible to avoid this. I take one every drop because it gets the team out of overrun situations. I keep that recoiless rifle on me at all times lol
I usually bring gattling sentry while having recoilless rifle loadout.
HMG emplacements need heavy armor pen to even be considerated
Okay, worth noting that there *is* a reason to use MG sentry over Gatling (and its similar to why to use default pistol over auto pistol)
MG sentry's lower firerate means that it tends to use an appropriate amount of ammo, and can stop firing when it needs to.
The Gatling Sentry tends, instead, to overkill massively, both wasting ammo on the floor and on dead enemies.
This is especially problematic when you consider that the Gatling (and possibly also the MG but thats realistically irrelevant) doesnt stop shooting when switching targets. This sweeps bullets into the universe, hitting absolutely nothing.
Tl;Dr: MG sentry is more efficient, if having a longer ttk. Gatling has short ttk, but wasted ammo.
If you use Sentries as Panic, Gatling is basically universally better.
If you use Sentries as Support, MG has a genuinely viable Niche.
Hope this helps!
This video raw as a milk after the new machine gun came out
I want a minigun with backpack so bad, i know we have genuinely enough MGs and (especially with the upcoming "chainsaw")and yes combining them with the supply pack SHOULD make me happy, BUT STILL!
Love your content Ryken, for both Darktide and Helldivers. Keep up the hard work.
Glad you like them!
Stalwart + Supply pack to deal with the swarms of hunters and other pests, Scorcher to deal with Hive Guard and spewers and even do work aganist charger bums, then Orbital Railcannon and 500kg + stun grenades to deal with Titans and more chargers seems very solid.
Only thing you’d be missing is bug hole destruction, hopefully your teammates can deal with that or the grenade pistol coming out soon would be great!
Do the new machine gun (hint: it’s trash!!)
God I wish so bad that the Stalwart was just a primary. If I could pack a Stalwart with a spear or triple offensive stratagems + ammo backpack I'd be so happy
That would be my dream too!
I agree with the cool downs being reduced for machine gun sentry and hmg emplacement, or another thought would be to increase the ammo of both of them to match. I always thought the machine gun had more sustained fire which makes it viable for holding a position for an extended duration. food for thought
Wish the hmg got affected by sentry upgrades. That ammo capacity and turn speed would be amazing on it
That would nice - and give a very good reason since now it would be a very strong anchor defence!
I'm a big fan of the MG-43 machine gun. Why recommend a supply backpack for the Stalwart though? Deep ammo reserves are already a strength of it, you don't need to accentuate it any further. The MG-43, however, really benefits from its poor ammo pickup being compensated for by carrying a supply pack.
True - and a fair point! I was just highlighting how you can push the ammo efficiency of the Stalwart even more with Supply Pack - maybe even allowing you to use the 1150 RPM more freely for, if nothing else, more satisfaction of putting holes in anything.
Part of me wants to believe the MG sentry has some hidden stat we are unaware that makes it better than the Gatling at something (like damage or turn rate)... but part of me then remembers how bad some primary weapons are and how the starting pistol is completely obsolete when you unlock the machine pistol.... I cant believe how slow they are with balance patches.
Yeah the inter-weapon ballance is shit (hi there, primary machine guns)
But it's slowly creaping to slightly better. They could do with some more patches there. Problem is the devs themselves seem to know less about weapon ballance than the players 😂😂
They did the Machine Gun sentry dirty. At least give it more Ammo than the Gatling so its a tactical choice between the two!
True
10/10 intermission. The well researched and informative video was great too. It felt like the MG turret was a bit ammo starved and you proved it.
Can't wait to get the slugger, really want to run the Stalwart.
Aaaaaaand MG-101 just dropped
I will add my own thoughts.
The Gatling sentry does have a habit of overshooting while engaging multiple targets from different directions even moreso than the MG sentry, meaning you can lose out on some of the Gatling’s potential.
There is absolutely no reason to use the highest RPM settings for the MG-43 or the Stalwart outside of fun or if you don’t have a weapon that can’t stagger a Stalker efficiently like the Punisher or Slugger. Even if you have a target like a Devastator that absolutely must die, the improved RoF isn’t as worth it as sustained, accurate fire at weakpoints or limbs.
An MG is better when pressing forward against Termanid chaff than the flamethrower, as you do not need to worry about constantly setting yourself on fire from fuel on the ground or backwashed into your face by Hunters.
You will find you will want to improve Stalwart RoF to max when a squad of Brood Commanders charges your butt.
Pilestedt: Every strategem should have a unique selling point.
Helldivers: Machine gun sentry exists.
As long as my teammates have strategems for the bigger bugs, i love running the gattling sentry, mg sentry and auto cannon sentry with my mg43. It's great for holding down objectives and not getting overwhelmed. Also 3 sentries if deployed properly can protect one another well which is great when you're on the run too.
9:34 “You missed! How could you miss!? He was 3 feet in front of you!”
Mulan reference always melts my heart
Thanks! It's so good to see the numbers.
Before unlocking both the gatling an mg turrets, I thought their differences would be efficiency vs dps, and was disappointing to notice the mg turret didn't have more sustain.
The HMG emplacement seems to also need a buff, as it competes with the MG-43 for a stratagem slot while being even more stationary... perhaps it has better "medium" pen? still needs more.
As I'm learning from the wonderful comments here - the HMG Emplacement does indeed have better medium penetration! It has the same penetration as the AMR, allowing it to pierce through walker bodies, devestators, and hulk eyes.
This might give it some purpose against automatons..
Having the darktide 2 closing sound is mad fitting for helldivers 2, HERETIICCCSSSSS
been running the HMG turret, machine gun, EAT's, and the mech. Against bugs its really good
The HMG turret can solo all 3 shieker hives as well. Do note that if the turret gets destroyed while your on it you will die. Chargers are your worst enemy
I love bringing this setup with me, Stawart, Slugger, resupply backpack, 500kg bomb and rocket pods, with this i'm ready for anything!
Didn't HMG have 150 sec cooldown? When was it nerfed?
Nvm it gets part of the emplacement stratagem cooldown bonus.
Stalwart, supplypack, EAT and orbital railcannon.
The rainmaker, because it be raining bullets.
Fuck primary Weapons! Just play Stalwart, Support Pack and max Grenades. There is no Bug Army stopping me anymore😂
The other two Strategem Spotts? 110mm Rocket Pods and basic Airstrike.
No joke, I play that on difficulty 7 almost without dying and allways protecting my Teammates or just soloing BugHives etc.
Wish they give us the Justice, Paragon and Camper on HD1. It would make most of the primary gun, except the Breaker Shotgun, useless.
For someone who makes so many tests I really expected you to notice that the machine gun sentry is way more efficient than the Gatling. The machine gun sentry hits while the Gatling wastes easily +50% of the ammo while turning. I'm disappointed. Especially from the outro. I'm actually sad.
Open terrain MGS, CC Gatling, ~45° HMGE.
Why take the mg sentry?
More MG! Duh! You and the mg sentry is basically the HMG emplacement that can shoot different targets!
That is assuming you're also carrying an MG, both you and the MG sentry go to town on reducing the targets for the gatling gun.
It's quite fun going MG, Supply Backpack, MG Sentry, Gatling Sentry. Hordes vanish quick!
2 Days and already out of date, due to the HMG gotten released. It is not good against Bots, either your 75-Ammo mag runs out too fast or the firerate is abysmal (450rps/750rps/1200rps). Also Medium Bots don't really die fast. Don't have experience with Bugs yet.
I've heard people swear by the Stalwart while completely disregarding the MG. Sure, the Stalwart does everything the MG can, except for one thing: killing medium-armor enemies. It is STUPID how fast the MG can just shred through Hive Guards and Devastators while the Stalwart just pings off uselessly. Another argument for the Stalwart's lack of penetration is "just use it alongside an EAT bro."
See, that would be a pretty combo if it weren't for the fact you're giving of two of your four strategem slots to make up for your lack of armor penetration. Funnily enough, if you use the Stalwart-EAT combination, you end up with the same amount of mobility as the MG. The MG's main drawbacks are its inaccuracy (which doesn't matter because it's supposed to be a spray-and-pray weapon, not a sniper rifle) and not being able to move while reloading. That second drawback is HUGE, don't get me wrong, and a lot of people (rightfully) use the Stalwart instead because not moving in Helldivers = Death.
That being said, if you use the Stalwart-EAT combination, you still have to call down the EAT, wait for it to come down, pick it up, line up the shot, fire, then pick up the Stalwart again. With the MG, you can just...not do any of that?
Helldivers 2 is a COOP game. You have teammates who can (hopefully) back you up. As long as you make it clear that you'll clear trash mobs for the anti-armor bois, they'll do you a solid and kill the charger for you.
As a side note, the Stalwart and Machine guns are objectively better against the Terminids than the Automatons for one simple reason: MGs are sustained fire weapons. Against Automatons, you want to be exposed as little as possible. Pop out of cover, take a shot, pop back into cover. You can't do that with MGs because their damage source comes from long, sustained fire. Against the bugs, this should be self-explanatory. Crank that fucker to max fire rate and let loose.
I'm coming out of a game, where I only took turrets: Gatling, Rocket Launcher, Mortar (the one that does damage) and Autocannon.
I play with turrets a lot............In fact every game ^^
And to be able to use all 4, I take the LAS-5 FALSE
We were in Infernal mode.
My team thanked me because my turrets (in addition to distracting the opponent from teammates) repeatedly cleared large groups of enemies...including corrosive titans.
And to use them to their full potential, I always look for high points so that they have a maximum view of the enemy.
So, turrets, if used well, can cause carnage.
And dear (maybe future) teammates, please don't stay in front of the turrets. They won't care if you're between her and her targets, they'll split you in two with a snap of their fingers.
I think one reason to take the regular MG sentry over the Gatling sentry is so that you don't cut down the rest of your squad with the higher rate of fire of the Gatling; the slower rate of fire of the MG means that someone could actually survive being in front of its line of fire if it acquires something on the other side of them where the Gatling would just destroy them without any chance for them to react, this means that the MG could be very useful as a panic button for high intensity situations where you have enemies all around you, but if you were to lay down a Gatling sentry it would just cut down everyone in the squad without giving them the option to maneuver.
Additionally, even though it has less sustained firing time than the Gatling sentry, the MG sentry is arguably more efficient as it tends to kill enemies with just the right amount of ammunition before moving on to the next one where the Gatling will waste more ammo than it needs to on individual targets, this makes it exceedingly good at dealing with swarming enemies like scavengers, hunters, or rank and file bots.
As far as man portable machine gun choices, I find I much prefer the MG-43 for its ability to chew through enemies with more armor and deal with lighter enemies with less ammunition use than the Stalwart, but I will not disagree that the Stalwart is useful as an ad-hoc Assault Rifle substitute if you're running a more specialized primary weapon like a marksman rifle or a shotgun, but I would not take it as a replacement for a primary unless I absolutely need to considering it takes up a stratagem slot and I thoroughly disagree with people who want it to be added as a another primary weapon instead of a support weapon.
I always use the MG sentry over the gatling specifically because the MG actually stops shooting while switching targets.
Combined with the slightly higher turn speed, the MG sentry is much more useful and ammo efficient when thrown in less strategic areas, or when being overrun by a flanking patrol you hadn't expected, as it doesn't waste ammo and cut down teammates while swinging 180 to kill a random flanking scavenger
I like machineguns.
On another note of bullet things, I wish the Guard Dog liberator would reliably reload instead of getting bugged preventing resupply or ammo boxes.
Actually since you brought up Stalwart primary comparison, I would like to propose the idea of a Stalwart Guard Dog.
You forgot a few crucial things with the HMG encamp, it doesnt time out, you can have MULTIPLE down on a map without the others going away. When summoned outside of combat patrols will not attack it like they do a resupply/support weapon. Only thing that kills it as a charger/bile accidentally walking over it. It takes two bullets to take out grey bugs, 5 or so for broods meaning with careful shots you can take out well over 100 bugs per cooldown and if you drop them wherever you go on cooldown your efficiency goes thru the roof. Just being EATS and then you have 2 flex stratagems❤
Tbh they should reduce the regular MG sentry’s cooldown by.. probably a full minute, (180->120S) to set its niche as a somewhat spammable support tool to provide extra swarm-clear for an AT focused helldiver/team. But since all turrets share the same cooldown, the Gatling is objectively better in every aspect, and just deletes breaches until a charger shows up.
Imagine being able to carry two stalwarts, one each in your primary and support slots, but you're able to dual wield them
while carrying the supply pack for an extra 2000 rounds, in addition to the 2000 rounds (1000x2) the stalwarts come with
Really wish the MG-43 wasn't so categorically worse than the Stalwart. The improved damage capability just doesn't give it a leg to stand on the second a player unlocks the Stalwart.
Hadn’t realised the Mg43 was anti-medium, if it had reload in the move or an additional box it would be way more use.
Never used the summon manned turret as standing still is a death sentence and for what it does I could just drop ANY turret, eagle or backpack and gain far more utility for way less risk, it should fire at least twice as fast with maybe 50% more ammo AND have a bullet deflection shield for me to even half way consider calling it in.
Anti horde is plentiful it’s the anti heavy that subsequently has to be fitted into the limited strat slots (4 minus any non-shared backpack/support items brought in).
seriously, not enough teams share their support item call ins, that could be up to 6 additional direct damage abilities (orbital rails, pairs of 380 barrages to burn objectives, turrets/ems/500kg for “hard targets” (but more realistically 3-4 as people like a mix of items and no one wants to wait 21+ minutes for a support item.
On that note, ALL the default stratagems in each field are woefully overmatched by items deeper into their respective pools (sole exception being the precision orbital which remains the most reliable orbital due to the big enough anti spawner AoE and low relative cool-down).
IMO they could all use a 20-30% cool-down reduction odd their base value or in the case of the eagle strafe an additional use or bigger AoE.
Furiously clicking. Will edit after I watch
Edit: OK, my own two cents is this. I was under the impression the basic Machine Gun turret was like the MG-43 and the Gatling was like the Stalwart when you look at their armor pen ability. If they both have the same Armor Pen and the Gatling is otherwise better in every other way, that is poor design and needs review. Since no one thinks the Gatling is an overpower strat, I'd favor a buff to the Machine Gun turret. The simplest buff would be to either cooldown reduction, increase its base damage or massively improve it's mag size. I wouldn't mind a massive boost to mag size and cooldown. It's going to be an early pickup for many divers. Making it fast recharging with a long lasting mag would be very handy for a noob with few strats to pick from, expecially since they will be on an easier diff. It would then still be viable on high levels with that recharge reduction even if it was more likely to get smashed before emptying it's mag. I could see such a turret seeing use on Helldive if paired with EMS strats. Freeze a bunch of bugs in front of this thing with those upgrades and watch it work.
As for the Stalwart vs MG43, It depends on whether I run the ammo pack. The Stalwart has enough ammo effeciency to run without it and acts more like an OP primary weapon. As the man said, pair it with a medium armor pen weapon like the Slugger and you can handle most targets. Take a shield gen and be a boss.
With the MG-43, I really like to take the Supply Pack. I use the highest rate of fire and just short burst most things, only going HAM when they try to overrun me. Since it has med armor pen, I can use the Defender as my primary and put hate on target when I am running away. Since you can't reload on the run, I carry stun grenades to prevent close encounters. With the engineering kit armor and Supply pack, you will have tons of grenades too. With the MG-43, I like to crouch/prone when practical. With the med armor, I put quick burst of fire on the enemy face. Med armor pen lets you smoke almost anything, up to Bile Spewers, but you have the option to empty the gun if you get rushed. I also like it with the EMS mortar, Just turn fields mobs of things into easy targets.
I often don't take another support weapon if I take EAT. I can often find a MG in game and run with it. It's like getting 5 strats if you find it or the AMR early.
While the machine guns may never be meta on Helldive, they aren't liabilities like some think. If you are packing stun grenades and have the Eagle Airstrike or 500, you can easily and reliably hit chargers with them. You will have most bases well covered.
Personally, I enjoy using the Stalwart alongside the Liberator Penetrator. The latter helping to make up for the Stalwart's lack of medium armor damage.
i really love the stalwart and mg43 but it feels like choosing them is trolling and setting yourself for failure most often than not, there's a constant and opressive NEED to dispatch heavily armored enemies which forces you to pick EATs/recoiless/quasar everytime in diff9
I love the starting machine gun. I know it's not that ammo efficient... but it just feels right.
Until I have to reload... so I guess it's a love-hate relationship.
Also, didn't know there's a way to switch the fire mode. Thanks!
Stalwart, Guard Dog Laser, Grenade Pistol (bug holes), Orbital Laser and I mix it up with any others but I would use Gas and Napalm but they are bugged unless your the host
I appreciate the estimated numbers with the ammo on the sentries as well I was going to get that upgrade but decided to get MORE GUNS
I really love the HMG turret for defending the LZ from bugs on mid-low difficulty.
It has a slow turn speed but you can mow down so many enemies if you place it right.
I know the stalwart has better stats, but I always prefer the standard Machine Gun on 630 RPM with the supply pack to lay waste to most mid size enemies, bot or bug. The stalwart is nice but it doesn't pack the same punch. And you can time the reloads so you are reloading while behind cover. The reload isn't that long if you have cover from immediate danger.
An unintuitive and VERY important secret is that light penetration weapons still have their damage reduced by light armor (shown by white X hit markers). Med Pen weapons do full damage on light armor (Red X hit marker).
Need to factor that in when comparing weapons between penetration levels.
I'd like to run machine guns more but they don't exactly kill chargers, bile titans or hulks. Helldive difficulty just makes dealing with those types of enemies your number 1 priority and thus I cant justify running them.