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One of the Boeing whistle blowers explicitly said he wasn't going to take his own life. Only to turn up dead in his truck in a hotel parking lot shortly afterwards with little to no investigation being done before he was cremated.
@@pairot01 If “He” refers to Simon I would suggest that he is kinda ignorant of some real world things. His latest decoding the unknown has opened my eyes a great deal on his knowledge about real world issues. Don’t get me wrong I like Simon but after he basically endorsed trump and said the war in Iraq after 911 was a war worth fighting kinda makes me think twice about his worldly views.
@@BlackNewty how did he endorse trump? Idk if i missed it or if an older episode i forgot (I also agree that Simon is a bit ignorant to certain things about the world, but that's pretty par for the course for someone privileged like him)
@@Noct_Snow that sounds vaguely familiar from a previous video. Tho I wouldn't consider that endorsement, moreso an educated guess given the last 3 elections and the current political climate. Simon seems like a reasonable guy and I don't think he would endorse that man (but of course idk Simon so that's just my parasocial opinion)
Twas there not once an Ml5 agent whom "zipped himself up in a carry on, padlocked it from the outside. Placed himself within his own bathtub, then repeatedly stabbed himself, before disappearing the knife so it would never be found" Such a terrible unavoidable accident.
Simon, Livor Morris has nothing to do with a person's liver - note the difference in the spelling? It has to do with blood settling down in the lowest part of a person's body.
My husband had a widow maker heart attack in his sleep at 38. He'd just had a clean physical 2 weeks prior. 6'4" 215 pounds. Doc said to stop sneaking cigarettes and find time to keep working out since we were expecting baby number two but other wise good to go. His doctor still seemed in shock at the funeral. In retrospect, now that I know more about heart disease and the gene he carried, I can see that there were symptoms. They just were not symptoms he nor his doctor were thinking meant a guy with a six pack had heart disease. He had intermittent shoulder pain. In a shoulder that had been severely injured previously and on the side where he carried our toddler who always wanted ups. He had some fatigue. Again, we had a toddler. He ran his plumbing business and we were renovating our house. No one was getting much sleep. Occasional, heartburn. Key word occasional. So not something he talked to his doctor about. He just took some pepcid and avoided the burrito truck the next day. If he'd been having headaches, he didnt tell me. I will say if you have to go, my hubby's way was the Cadillac of deaths. Painlessly in your sleep with the last thing you told your family being I love you. I didnt have enough time with him. But I had the best time. ❤
Sorry to hear that. My dad passed at 42 (in 2011) in a similar way. He had a disecting aortic aneurysm in his sleep. Was in good shape, ran a mile every morning, hit the gym every day.. And about 2 weeks before passing, he started getting severe dizziness/balancing problems. But the hospital wrote it off as a random vertigo & sent him on his way. After he passed we learned that he likely had a connective tissue disorder which caused his aorta to balloon over a 20 year period (made worse by the exercising & lifting weights). May have been Ehler Danlos or Marfans syndrome.
For those of us old enough to have followed this issue at the time a few aspects of this video were weak. 1)Context. The US government was placing immense pressure on allies to join them in the war. Tony Blair and Alastair Campbell had tied their colours to the US mast. Gilligan's reports if verified were potentially career ending for both of them. 2) A very large group of coroners signed a letter queeying the official version. 3) It is simplistic to assume the only way for Dr K to be murdered is that Tony Blair told M who sent 007 to do the deed. As in the Boeing case, many firms stood to miss out on £billions if the war didn't happen. Whistleblowers can cost powerful people a fortune. I dont know what happened to Dr K but this video did not do the issue justice.
France did not give in to pressure despite some backlash. USA put no more pressure than was applied regarding Vietnam, less probably. Wilson did not join that conflict and Blair had no excuse.
I agree, an awful lot of very very odd circumstances and " surprisingly poor standards of practice " not to mention the Coroners inquest. Too many coincidences glibly excused
At the point this was all happening the Blair government was already assumed to have exaggerated The war in Iraq had started, and officially ended and the Blair government won another election two years alter The government had no reason to kill him, the Military firms had no reason ...
I love how many “Into The Shadows” Simon has read to be so trusting of the government. He minimizes how far a government will go to protect themselves and their interests.
When he says " I keep an open mind when I read these things," after arguing against his writer from the start, then spends the entire rest of the script discounting every point made by his writers as he's reading it for the first time, it drives me crazy. I don't particularly believe there's damning evidence that the government killed this guy, but at no point did Simon entertain the possibility. He frustrates me so much sometimes. Not open minded, just as biased as some of the people he talks down to.
It is a shame that just hours after this video went out, George suddenly swerved off the road into a field. Then his car leaked petrol everywhere despite being a diesel, causing it to combust taking any evidence to the cause along with it
The worst part, was that it is said that his stomach had ALOT of Basement shrooms inside, and too many for mere "enjoyment" factors... Also it is said there was a bald clone running from the scene
As a US Army Infantryman it really rubs me the wrong way in such the manner of our number one reason to oust Sadaam was a lie that gave the Vice President Dick a substantial amount of non taxable income from all the logistics contracts were granted to Halliburton and every compound we fought from made him a shit boat load of money 💰 🤑 💸
I think the US military does a lot of wrong things, and if it's done for personal gains it's even worse. If I were more of an optimist I'd hope that people like you who've seen through it could do something about it.
All these wars are kindled into life to enable people like chaney to launder taxpayer's money into the pockets of themselves and their powerful friends. The Carlyle group and many others facilitate mass murder for profit. The British Prime Minister was famously a big face in The Carlyle group. The politicians and bankers get super rich off the bodies of dead innocents. It's so evil. Tony Blair collected 100s of millions after her retired. No doubt what Bush promised him for his support in the Iraq invasion.
it wasn't about oil it wasn't about halliburton shares it wasn't the british secret service join up the dots to work out who it was who goes around the world assassinating people they don't like, but never admit to it ? who benefitted from a destabilized iraq ? who is best friends with b-liar ? all fingers point to mossad
@@tubensalat1453And that would be what, exactly? You could at least provide e suggestion to the people you’re trying to guilt into taking risks you clearly wish not to take yourself.
Dude, one of the boeing whistleblowers was found shot dead inside his car in a parking lot, nothing of value being stolen. Wtf do you mean just coincidence??
A man shot himself in the chest with a shotgun, then walked 15 feet to sit down on a parkbench and strangel himself with a piece of electrical cord. Suicide concluded the police. So was it also with the man that was found hanging from a three with two loads of buckshot in his chest, suicide concluded the police. A woman was found drowned in her Tesla, according to the police she had parked the car, turned it off and the car had rolled backwards into the lake. It was an accident said the police. The pont here is that the police sees and finds what they are ordered to see and find.
My daughter absolutely has struggled to swallow any medication that's not liquid, her entire life. She choked & it takes quite a few sips for each pill. She's now 21 and still only takes medication if she really has to and it's a whole thing to prep herself...if he was anything like that ...he could never have willingly swallowed more than a few. His body would've rejected them before it got lethal.
Did I miss why Simon isn't taking the lack of fingerprints more seriously? I might be on board with the incompetency theory if it wasn't for the lack of fingerprints on the blister packs or the knife, but that is just too strange of a detail.
Given it appeared to be a suicide/car accident collecting fingerprints would not been a priority. Also depending on the material the knife may not retain fingerprints or at least ones good enough to collect.
A lack of evidence is not itself evidence. While he wasn't wearing gloves when his body was found, it doesn't mean that he couldn't have been wearing them earlier, he could have handled them with a handkerchief, taking them in and out of the box could have wiped them away, it could have been raining making the prints unusable. Maybe they found prints but they couldn't conclusively match them because they were smeared or incomplete. There are a TON of reasons, and none of them even require incompetence, let alone conspiracy
Those gardening knives have rough wooden handles, not exactly good for preserving fingerprints. Also a lot of them are still carbon steel, which requires oiling the blade after a thorough cleaning to preserve it and stop rusting, again a terrible medium for preserving and collecting fingerprint. Even if we theorise that it was a super modern plastic handle (still made rough so not a lot can be collected from there) stainless steel blade version, during normal usage you usually support the blade with just your fingertip and it moves a lot so no fingerprint, but there might be DNA, mixed with all the dust,dirt, wood/plant DNA, so that is also highly unlikely to provide a conclusive result. As for the blister packs, i usually hold them at their edge and use my pointing finger tip(half fingernail) to pop them so maybe they wouldn’t be able to find much there and normally those areas are not collected during an autopsy.
My ex-colleague Dr. David A. Kay (IAEA and UN nuclear weapons inspector in Iraq) wrote a book about this time. I saw him on TV complaining about US policy. He was ignored by Bush, who was blindly set on going to war.
And that is why I dismiss the idea that the british government killing people in the US being potential reason for war. They most likely have some sort of treaty for that.
40:55 Simon ChatGPT is wrong. It is voluntary for people to attend select committee's and famous incidences of people having refused to attend. But the Committee can petition to enforce it if they feel its in contempt of evidence through the House. So its not entirely right.
I'm glad I saw someone else caught that, this is the kind a stuff that makes me uneasy about people using chatGPT as a source for even low impact questions. It'll just give a wrong answer and cover it's own ass by saying "usually"
He's so stupid using this and thinking that it's going to get everything right it scrapes data from the internet. And on the internet tons of people put false information on it all the time
@MrJack123455 Yes, definitely agree. I am becoming incredibly uneasy with people over relying on chatGBT now and I swear rather than getting better it's got worse when I last used it. ChatGBT should be used as a crutch but if it can't even get something on what should be a simple question like that correctly then I got no confidence in it. I keep seeing every podcast person praising chatGBT when it is so faulty as f. I can honestly see the AI becoming the new financial bubble, get so over inflated and overheated in value that it will pop and crash and burn as quickly as is risen.
"Simon is going overboard to debunk the idea" He's possibly a part-time Change Agent for the PTB. It happens all the time. Many years ago, Con Coughlin (of _The Daily Telegraph_ ) was exposed as an MI5 stooge - and promptly resigned (for a while). Frankly, the idea of Mr Kelly's taking his own life is RISIBLE - the ONLY question being whodunnit.
Please could you elaborate on what you mean by "just like how they showed Barry across in Eastenders"..?? Just to be clear, I'm also suspicious of Robin Cook's death but I don't understand the second half of your comment as I don't watch Eastenders so this is a genuine question. Thank you.
@@janeslater8004my thoughts exactly, both Blair and Brown did their young global leaders a couple of years before taking power and the choice between them was very close, they were hedging their bets!
Simon, not all of us can practically dry swallow our meds 😂 I know people who need sooo much water to handle the way some pills (even small ones) feel, texturally
Just wanna say him studying insect viruses means stuff like Malaria and insect vector borne viruses-not viruses that necessarily make insects sick 🤣 I’m a lab human US side and it’s incredible the stuff people catch from various animal vectors
I agree. However Asbestos fibres in the air while maybe getting poisoned while some idiot half of a man around believes the world is still being Germanized would be far worse. Didn't Theresa May complain about that sort of thing while a lot of average people like me chose to remain unaware about how Russia might be on the move in more ways than one while we were often being told to just be more positive over here in Canada too far away to affect us anyway. Since I have seen a lot under the microsope at school I couldn't agree that war elswhere would not ever be affecting me too.
I'd be on board with suicide explanation... If not for three things: 1> Not enough blood letted 2> Not enough medication found in blood 3> No fingerprints on knife or blister pack Explain these three things, and sure. But with such a high profile person suddenly dying with these issues... Yeahhh... I'm not with Simon here.
@JeskaDax I am curious if the "no fingerprints " indicates the surfaces were wiped clean so there's nothing there or that there are no usable prints due the surface area and/or texture. But there was the expected fingerprint smudges. I feel like those are two very different scenarios.
@@theConquerersMama Yup. There's just some things that seriously need better explanations if suicide is to be believed. Otherwise, I'd say it remains a mystery that needs some answers.
As to why the slashed wrist is odd: the intelligence services may be aware that a slashed wrist isn’t a certain way to kill someone, but they don’t have to be. It may not be how he died. They do know a slashed wrist, a visible, seemingly self inflicted injury, will lead the average layman down the path of suicide, more so than, he’s just dead for some unclear reason. It could have been inflicted more so make it look like he did it to himself, for the press, media, public etc, rather than be an actual attempt of the act to end his life
A scientific friend of Dr Kelly attested that the knife he supposedly used was blunt and the Drs wrist was badly affected by joint problems. He would have had to have hacked at the wrist.
I have multiple autoimmune diseases so take just above 20 pills at a time once a day. I use my whole 16 oz water bottle which roughly translates to 250 ml of water. But pills don't bother me and this is a daily thing so I'm used to it. Someone who isn't used to taking meds or doesn't like taking pills, 250 ml of water is SUPER pushing it. I obviously don't know what happened, but just commenting on that one bit.
16 oz of water is just under 500 mL of water! Source: I work in a lab in the US so we have a ton of things marked with both metric and imperial volume measurements. My water bottle is also a 1-liter Nalgene so it’s trippy when I’m in the low-speed centrifugation area because we have dozens of bottles made from an identical mold but a softer plastic in there
I have both graves disease and hashimotos (and they somehow do not cancel each other out) and i had absolutely no idea i had either disease until i was trying to get pregnant and wasn't having any success. When it was discovered, my thyroid hormone numbers were so out of wack that my doctors were shocked that i was alive, much less that i didn't have any symptoms besides infertility. Some conditions show no symptoms or nothing serious enough to send someone to the doctor about it despite being very serious.
Yeah. Doctor here. You would be amazed how long people can compensate for (especially younger people) right up until they suddenly don’t, or it turns up as an incidental finding.
@--enyo-- yeah it was undetected for up to two years for sure. If there were signs of it before then, they would have been pretty mild as it was discovered after I had my first child.
I have family members with Graves' and Hashimoto's and I didn't even know it was possible to have both since they seem diametrically opposed, that's wild. Have you been investigated for Schmidt's Syndrome?
@marjorie666 never heard of that one but the endocrinologist i saw was very thorough so I'd be surprised if he missed something major. I'll look into that one though! Thank you 😊
Video suggestion. Could you do a video about the conspiracy theory that British Prime Minister Harold Wilson was a spy for the Soviet's. Its a very interesting one and would be fun to do. Was going to write and do my own video on it but I just never got round to finishing it and I would like this channel to cover the topic. Thumbs up if you agree with this idea.
@keefymckeefface8330 I didn't say I believed in it and this is called Decoding the Unknown and they debunk things that is often tried to be presented as facts as well you know
I totally believe that a heart condition can be missed. It took 4 doctors and 10 years in 2 states to diagnose my wife with atrial fibulation in her 30's/40's. Every time there was an event, by the time she was hooked up to a heart monitor, the event had ended. Several times, we got to the hospital during the event, only to have it end before leads were attached. Twice an ambulance was called - same issue. After it was finally diagnosed, it took 3 procedures to fix the problem. The last doctor, during the test where trigger an event to locate where to do the procedure, had the fun of talking to her for a few minutes while she had no pulse. In case anyone is wondering, she says everything felt "heavy", but her brain worked fine, and restarting it hurt like hell. The doctor was very curious - no surprise there. I keep waiting for her to be taken off to study. 😂
My wife is a hospice nurse. She pronounces deaths fairly regularly. What she describes is not so simple as taking a pulse, there's multiple things she checks, and they take time. But she's never described it taking so long as 25 minutes. I always gathered it's a 5-10 minute process usually.
Yessir, coming from an ICU nurse. 5- 10 minutes. AND, Livor Mortis has nothing to do with the liver. See how they're spelled differently ? Livor Mortis is when the blood settles in the lowest part of the body. It appears blue or reddish, it can happen rather quickly after death, and is a clear indication that someone has died.
It's shorter than that, really. It takes possibly 2 minutes to check everything. The time is usually taken in compassion for the family. You can't rush this process. 18:39
@@Seamonkey555correct. It's a fast process. Slow only if you for some reason need to flip the body and for some reason you can't (say once a seemingly normal body when flipped on their side revealed gastric bleeding)
I saw a hospice nurse pronounce my dad in front of me. They checked things on his front, turned him on his side to check his back and double-checked everything. And even then it only took about 3 minutes. But I can imagine 5-10 makes sense for more complicated cases/larger patients.
@ yeh I got it yesterday reading some of it now?!….it’s just dam crazy how a lot of people really listen to the governments and they can do no wrong and think they are there to help and protect you?!?!?. 🤦♂️🤦♀️
Right at that same period, also Robin Cook conveniently died of heart attack whilst trekking somewhere in the Welsh mountains (I think). Robin Cook was also a vocal opponent to the Iraqi invasion within the cabinet. I wonder…
That depends on the position of the artery, the position of the person's body and the size of the cut. I've cared for patients who developed a small nick in their femoral artery during a procedure and they bled very slowly into their peritoneal recess,meaning it wasn't visible on the outside of the body. The bleeding was slow because of the very small size of the cut and.. the pressure being exerted on it because of swelling at the site. This patient just very slowly kept dropping his blood pressure,which the nurse noted and he was taken back to surgery to have it repaired. I also have recovered a patient from OR who had a surgery on his femoral artery, connecting it to the popliteal artery. BTW, this is why patients like this are kept on the ICU for at least 24 hrs. In neither case was there dramatic spraying of blood. In the first case there was just a continual dropping of his blood pressure and loss of blood as shown on his lab work. It was recognized as a concern by his nurse and he returned to the OR to have it repaired. In the 2nd case, there was no loss of blood pressure and the patient seemed stable. But, the dressings on his leg had to be changed 2 times within the first hour. The experienced nurse recognized this as abnormal, called the surgeon, who came in and took him back to surgery to repair the leak. So it depends on the injury itself, although I have seen blood spraying at other times.
For the American viewers- the medication he took is called Darvocet here. It was taken off the market due to its potential for high toxicity and heart issues. Which is why I would have thought George would have brought up that many of the terminally ill have used it for deletion. It was considered the "drug of choice" for such things. So it wouldn't be unusual for this drug to be used for a hit.
Tony Blair. I remember after John Smith (super boring name I know!) died, and my friends and I were so upset as he seemed to be a genuine man with a real plan to change the UK, then Anthony Charles Lyndon Blair came along, calling himself “Tony” and used the Labour movement for his own gain. We thought he was cool at first. We were wrong. Dr Kelly may not have been killed by the higher ups (jury still out) but Tony Blair did kill my (and many in my generation)’s belief in government. PM Tony Blair = I’m Tory Plan B. (That is a real acronym! Coincidence? Yes, but it is still funny given what the man was and did!) For context I am now 45 and so was 18 when Blair came to power.
note on the part about Wiley in Memphis: As a Memphis native, it is very likely that the car did sit on the bridge for 4 hours without being reported. There are cars that sit on the side of the road for days before a road crew will come by and mark it for towing. Abandoned vehicles are either stolen, broken down, or out of gas and the driver has walked to the nearest gas station. In general we don't report them because..frankly..there's a mentality here of "not my horse, not my race". You keep your nose out of stuff where it doesn't belong because if you poke around you're likely to find yourself in the middle of stuff you don't want to be in the middle of. Also regarding why he was crossing the bridge. There are any number of reasons. But this is the least remarkable point when you know the area. Germantown is pretty far outside of memphis proper. BUT. A ton of good clubs and bars are located downtown as well as the Orpheum theater for the classier folks. Now if you are headed downtown from Germantown it's likely you'll hit a point where you either make a quick turn off the interstate using a poorly marked exit toward the (now) Bass Pro pyramid or you're stuck going across the bridge. Likely a drunk fella was downtown, got his wires crossed trying to hit another bar, missed his exit (if you live in memphis, you'll know you'd miss this exit sober) and boom. Now you're stuck crossing the river into Arkansas.
It's a different stress though. Sure working with dangerous things is stressful, but he completely understood what he was doing and when he spoke about it he was listened to and respected. Also, when he wasn't working, nobody recognized him and he could compartmentalize it. Getting raked over the coals by your government for things you never said, and looking awkward, uncomfortable and ignorant on national TV is a totally different thing. If the guy never talked about his family situation as a kid, having the tabloids publicize every embarrassing thing he'd ever done would be terribly upsetting for him.
Someone should tell Simon that Okham‘s Razor doesn’t mean to not believe in „conspiracy theories“ and go with unlikely scenarios to support the official narrative. Dr. Kelly perished in highly suspicious circumstances and the inquiry was flawed at best. And that much is clear from all the facts - the ones Simon kept reading out whilst trying to explain each one away.
The conspiracy theory isn't likely. The "facts that don't make sense" are very weak arguments, & even if I grant them all, they don't prove a conspiracy. People are so quick to seize on the slightest thing that isn't solved exactly as clearly as an episode of CSI & insist it proves a conspiracy when the reality is the reason that most crimes go unsolved is it's actually really hard to solve crimes & a lot of evidence just doesn't survive.
@@TheLithpwhat I heard throughout most of the video is that the evidence makes the case of suicide extremely unlikely, not specifically that he was murdered. Simon just reaching as far as the conspiracy theorists to fit the given narrative is the opposite of “Occam’s Razor.” Every single point of evidence against the narrative doesn’t need to create a new narrative, only to poke holes in the existing one. It’s entirely plausible that the official statement is completely wrong and the government of the UK did not do enough work investigating this death. Edit: Also what do you mean by “weak?” It’s not strange for a man to barely drink water when shown to have trouble taking pills? Or that his fingerprints weren’t on anything supposedly used to kill himself, or that the narrative of him bleeding out isn’t supported by the actual evidence at the scene and challenged by multiple professionals in their field? That’s already past a reasonable doubt to me.
@@HiveTyrant25 Then you need to check your ears because that's just straight up not what happened in the video. Simon granted that it could be the cause of death was misidentified, like maybe it was actually natural causes for instance, but he thinks either scenario is more likely than the conspiracy murder because there's not real evidence for it. As for the evidence, I'm not going to go over every single thing, so I think it's fair to address the specific examples you used. The pill argument is silly, I used to struggle to take pills too, but now I can do it as easy as Simon does. Do you know why? Because that's primarily psychological. It's a massive unwarranted assumption that someone in his frame of mind would still be too squeamish to take pills. Not finding fingerprints means effectively nothing. Fingerprint residues are very fragile structures that rarely stay intact enough to identify. A lot of other comments have talked about how the described surfaces are very poor for retaining fingerprints. "11 doctors signed a letter" is incredibly unimpressive. Do you know you can easily find "open letters" where hundreds of scientists have said that evolution or climate change is a hoax? That doesn't make it true, it means there are a lot of scientists, doctors, etc. making it very easy for someone to cherry pick those that agree with their position. It's an incredibly basic trick used by all manner of cranks. Now, let me assume, for argument's sake, you intend to tell me I'm "reaching just as much as the conspiracy theorists," as you did with Simon. Well, doesn't that seem like an unsolvable trap? Like no explanation of why the evidence isn't as strong as you think it is matters because the mere act of explaining it can be framed as "reaching"? Besides, I think that's a fundamental false equivalence. The conspiracy theorist needs to provide positive evidence of a conspiracy, not just that they didn't find this or they didn't find that. They need to show that a murder was actually more likely than the guy vomiting up the pills, which is a very mundane explanation that would explain their absence. In general, most evidence when someone dies out in nature for whatever reason is never found because so many things could happen to it & it could be anywhere. It does not prove some elaborate government conspiracy. An explanation in the video itself was provided for how a body could seem weirdly bloodless, & also, I kept wondering why no one addressed the fact that blood would likely seep into the soil. If there was a suspect, maybe some witnesses saw him taken off by sketchy people, then I'd be more likely to agree there's a reasonable doubt. As it stands, this is one of the weakest conspiracy theories I've ever heard. You say you aren't positively asserting this, but that's what some of the points are explicitly about. Like the main argument with the coroner is whether he was covering something up or simply being incompetent. And no, it's not true that "evidence just needs to poke holes in the official narrative." If a conspiracy is being alleged, then the explanation has to work, it can't just have a dozen disconnected arguments that don't work together. As a competing explanation, it has to, y'know, compete. You wouldn't accept the argument that "the facts in the official narrative don't need to line up together, they just need to be possible individually" because that's clearly ridiculous. Finally, if you're going to object again that you're totally not alleging a conspiracy, I don't see what you're complaining about. Neither I nor Simon are claiming it's impossible that there was some other cause of death that was misidentified. We're just not convinced that a suicide has been ruled out, & certainly not that a conspiracy has been proven, at least not based on the evidence presented here. As George himself wrote in his script, you're always going to get a few cases where you can't quite figure out how everything happened, but that's not equal to proving a conspiracy or even proving the overall scenario wrong. Again, flip the logic back, do you accept the lack of other footprints, signs of a struggle, etc. as definitive proof that there wasn't a murderer? So, then, us not knowing where some of the evidence ended up doesn't prove it wasn't self-inflicted. And it really looks like he at least attempted, whether or not there was maybe some other underlying condition that is what actually did him in.
At the time of Dr. David Kelly’s death (2003) I was also prescribed a high dosage of Co-proxamol on a long term basis to treat chronic pain. However this medication was withdrawn from use in the UK market not too long after his death, I think within a couple of years, due to safety concerns. All co-proxamol use in the UK is now on an unlicensed basis. Since the withdrawal, further safety concerns have been raised which have resulted in co-proxamol being withdrawn in other countries. There has been a major reduction in deaths involving the pain-relief drug co-proxamol since it was withdrawn in the UK, an Oxford University-led study has found. On a personal note, at the risk of giving TMI, I can easily knock back a handful of large nutritional supplement capsules in one go with only a small amount of water! I never swallow each individual tablet separately.
no trace of Co Proxamol (Distalgesic) was found in his blood samples., Tony Blair removed it from prescriptive use soon after to make it more believeable to the public this was a causative agent, it was very convienent that a strip of the tablets was found close to his body. Lancet has revealed that the replacement analgesia has been responsible 10 fold in drug related suicides. Co Proxamol is still available on special prescription to the tune of over £300 for a box of 100.
"There has been a major reduction in deaths involving the pain-relief drug co-proxamol since it was withdrawn in the UK, an Oxford University-led study has found." Duh! Since "Clackers" were banned in the mid 1970s, the statistical chance of receiving Clackers-related injuries has been dramatically reduced!
If you've watched the satire "In the Loop" - film version of Veep/The Thick of It, it plays out this situation; a document ending up causing America and UK going to war. Definitely recommend.
If you have coronary artery disease it does not usually show up on a 12 lead ECG / EKG, you need to put a person on a treadmill for changes to appear. This is known as a stress test. It is a build up of plaque in the coronary arteries that forms over years and decades. A study was done on returning bodies of US soldiers killed in Vietnam (RIP) showing a considerable number had the start of this process. Then there is hypertrophic cardiomyopathy which may or may not be seen on an ECG, you need an echo to diagnose it. This is the condition that causes young fit people to drop down dead including athletes.
I had a family member who had a complete physical and was given a clean bill of health. Four days later he died of massive heart attack. He’d had no history of heart issues.
A bit flippant about the death of sir david....i followed the case at the time it was horrendous, and alaistair campbel appears on tv as if he wasnt involved
1:25 - Mid roll ads 2:50 - Back to the video 5:05 - Chapter 1 - Dr Kelly 13:15 - Chapter 2 - The political shitstorm 42:55 - Chapter 3 - The death 45:50 - Chapter 4 - The official narrative 54:05 - Chapter 5 - Somethings no right... 1:28:20 - Chapter 6 - A series of suspicious deaths 1:52:00 - Chapter 7 - The answer 1:55:00 - Conclusion
The lack of fingerprints on the gardening knife and plastic + foil blister packs of Co-proxamol is meaningless. Fingerprint success depends entirely upon the quality of the surface you’re taking them from and gardening knives are largely made of hard plastic handles that are often patterned so retrieving prints is virtually impossible, the same applies to the blister packs of tablets - they’re basically cheap plastic and foil which isn’t conducive to prints either…. Add slippery blood and you won’t be retrieving any successfully lifted prints. Today we normally take a ‘liver temperature’ to determine time of death. One person takes the ambient temperature where the body is found, another person takes the liver temperature of the body and from these 2 temperatures you can determine an approximate time of death which can be anytime within a 4 - 6 hour period. You cannot determine an ‘exact time’ of death using rigor mortis or lack there of, or from body temperature. Even taking a sample of fluid from the eyeball which contains Potassium that dissipates at a pre-determined rate following death doesn’t give the EXACT time, just an approximate nearest time to within a couple of hours of death.
Just so we are clear, he was studying how insects transmit viruses amongst human and animal populations as a form of spreading and not so much worried about an insect catching the flu and how to treat it hahaha
So I lived through an injury to that artery. Hand slipped trying to cut open a box. It was only able to go so deep because it was a new blade and it happened really fast. And yes, it went EVERYWHERE..... My coworker said it looked like a crime scene.
I have an issue with the conspiratorial narrative about the heart condition stuff. What is more likely? 1) they missed it. 2) they found it, but kept it secret in case they needed to fake the guy’s suicide in ten days time by the tried-and-true assassination method of ‘hoping it kills him’. I’m not incredulous that they missed it; I am incredulous that bad luck is something that could be considered sinister. That said, I don’t think he killed himself, but I do think it’s possible that he died during a suicide attempt that would not otherwise have worked were it not for the confluence of events involved in it, including the unknown factor of the heart condition. And I do also think that - whilst the Blair government was execrable and bloody to the cuffs over Iraq - the government doesn’t really have that much of a motive to kill him. I think he was hounded by the press, who are famously absolute bloody psychotic jackals, and he was emotionally destabilised by extreme anxiety, and died of a compound issue involving a medical condition. If not for the really bad move and really dodgy optics of not allowing a proper inquest, this conspiracy wouldn’t have ever had any fuel to it - and thus we arrive at the fact that the government of the time were panicky, negligent dickheads, which we knew anyway. And finally, my own conjecture is just as valid as the conjecture presented by the conspiracy theory. RIP, Doctor. This didn’t need to happen.
The only thing I really question is the lack of fingerprints, but given the shoddy investigation, I think they just didn’t use the right technique to find them. I agree wholeheartedly that the quality of the investigation led to the speculation.
@ but none of the other stuff was sufficient to kill him? Seems more likely it was a confluence of the three together. I’m just making the point that an Occam’s razor taken to this doesn’t involve taking the facts as presented and making stuff up in order to make it sinister. After he died, they say that they found he had a nascent heart issue - I’m not saying that I know that was what killed him, I don’t know that. What I’m saying is that the belief that they found the heart condition and deliberately didn’t say to him “mate, your heart is knackered” as a deliberate attempt to prep for a potential future assassination mechanism they didn’t know they might need at that point in the timeline and over which they have no direct control is, in my opinion, extremely silly.
@@steveharrison76 Yea, I agree that it was mostly all three factors together. He went for a walk with the aim of not coming back. Doing the cutting and pills along the way. He then to a break at the place he was found. While the blood loss was not enough to kill a healthy person, it together with the physical activity caused is heart to stop. He vomited up the most of the pills while on the walk. What was found in his stomach was just the remains of the last dose he took.
In this episode Simon says, "Why would you bother having someone die in a plane crash if you could just fake an accident?" Being a skeptic is a good thing, but sometimes his "skepticism" takes the form of being an idiot.
Honestly this has changed my view from the tinfoil one. Two attempts that didn't do enough damage to kill him outright but did trigger his heart to pack in. Maybe he threw up in a bush earlier after having taken the pills at home which would explain the low drug levels. Not enough damage to do blood loss, but the combined shock of everything gave him a heart attack. As to motive - his career and reputation were in flames. The *only* way I would entertain foul play would be the classic "if you take yourself out then we will make sure your family are safe" but tbh he seems to have been far more an asset than a liability to the government.
I used to work with someone who was a close relative to one of the first paramedics to attend. Apparently he suggested that this did not look like suicide
It's an unpopular opinion because you're demonstrably wrong simon. The information at the time was that there were *no* wmds. Bloody hell this whole video is giving me flashbacks. I was there at the protests btw. George is so bang on the money with this script
Simon blaming government incompetence while simultaneously crediting competence to the Drs on the government list of candidates is *chef's kiss* irony.
I must ask, as Dr. Kelly was a Very Successful Chemist, wouldn't he have been more likely to have self-deleted with some sort of magically effective toxin or some such rather than slicing his wrist?
That also came to mind, didnt he previously work at the lab that made anthrax and all that? You would think he could cook up something a bit more effective than his wifes pills, especially as he hated taking them.
@@Spicypoptart1 You realize that could spread, right? I don't think he wanted to take all of Europe with him. Also, there's security protocols, so you can't just walk out of a lab with a superbug.
@@Spicypoptart1 yes, this technique is at odds with anyone who knows what they're doing, particularly. someone who has access to lab supplies. Interesting the George didn't mention that the first responders held a press conference in which they described a lot of fishy business.
the boeing whistleblower who died of a stroke likely was an unfortunate coincidence, but john barnett had WAY too many suspicious things happen. shot in the back of the head on the day before he is planned to release information, absolutely i understand the argument of "he already whistleblew what would it accomplish" but him being a known whistleblower would allow others unwilling to go public with their info to share it to john, who could then bring further information to light. there was too much they had to gain from a corporate perspective, and while i agree it isnt joe boeing pulling the trigger, the world we live in is one which shows us too many examples of company backed killings for me to think a company which is a major part of the military industrial complex would be hung up on the morality or legality of a murder, and the attempted cover-up has way too many very clear issues, even if you wanna ignore all the short term profits boeing would see from getting rid of him.
First, I must say, its so unfortunate that Simon killed himself by drowning, stabbing himself in the back 76 times and overdosing on opioids in that order. Secondly, its not unreasonable that governments can kill people outside of their country, Russia allegedly does this a lot of times.
As an American, if he was murdered, I think USA did it. George Bush (the younger) personally had a great deal riding on making sure we got into Iraq. Thanksgiving week after the election, before the Supreme Court had even decided he had actually won the election, he had a meeting at his ranch in Texas with all the people he wanted to appoint to his cabinet for the soul purpose of brainstorming how to get American troops into Iraq.
It'd be nice to know WHAT heart condition he had. Also, this seems like a lot to put a lid on politicians not even lying, but just spinning and choosing the facts that they had at their disposal. The stakes just don't seem that high
@@HiveTyrant25 Considering the video really didn't come to any hard conclusions, I would think that Simon is safe from the Continuum. They don't like chastising their own. Allegedly. However, George may not be so lucky. He should find a dark place in the basement for a little while. LOL!
If Simon hadn’t spent so much time on it I’d be surprised this one got published. So many stretches being made in this one-especially towards the end 😂
If you need to ask "Did the British Government" about anything, the answer is probably yes. Governments seek absolute power, and absolute power corrupts.
The protest figures from the London rally are not shocking. The US anti'war rallies were massive, but massively downplayed on purpose to make it seem like the was was overall positively viewed in the states.
Unfortunately, Simon is all too willing to belive offcial accounts os incidents and do his best to disregard any contradicting evidence. For an |open minded" person, he seems to have a very narrow acceptance range.
36:55 of course you'd think Blair is given an unreasonably hard time. Afterall, it is not your country that was devastated by his war. It is not your siblings, relatives and loved ones who were killed, raped and obliterated. It is not your hometown that was made into ruins. It is not your future that was done for. It is not your brother who came home in a body bag.
I love how george is like "i know i havent mentioned the whistleblower in 1400 words" and simon is immediately like "nah let yourself cook george" Shoutout to George for a great script
Was a little disappointed with that one, especially since some of the evidence that made him lean towards conspiracy was stuff that already been disproven.
Anybody else notice he changed shirts in the middle? With no explanation, in the middle of the video, and back to the same shirt at the end? No reference by the editor either. Solidly makes a person go 'hrm'.
@@SEAZNDragon Recognized. But the middle? And the front and back of the video look identical from the shirt to the background, but the middle is different. Like he had to reshoot the middle. Again, he has snarky editors. Editing is different from his other videos on this channel.
@@walteringle2258 It's 3 different shirts. The 1st shirt is a pleated polo & the 3rd is just a regular t-shirt. Also, what do the editors matter? They don't have the power to change Simon's shirt.
Just saying, Dr. Benito Que's surname should be read as "keh" (or "kay", if the former is too difficult for you). It's an uncommon Spanish surname. 1:15:15 I can take tablets with basically no water, but only one at a time and only so many in a short span of time (I then have to pause for my spit to refill). If I'm using water, however, I can take 3-4 regular-sized ibuprofen tablets per sip (I could try for more, but there's the risk that some of them don't go down and remain in my mouth). Either way, it's possible to take ~30 pills with relatively little water.
There was some impact in pop culture. Thom Yorke recorded a song called Harrowdown hill about Kelly's death. Someone also wrote a play named "Death of a Scientist".
My gathering from this episode: the coroner was incompetent or the assassin was incompetent. As for which government, wouldn't the Iraqi government be more suspect, since the good doctor spent a lot of time getting rid of their bio stashes?
1:38:03 i live in arkansas and have crossed that bridge going to Memphis a few times and honestly wouldnt think twice about a car on the shoulder - also it's a major interstate, you're going too fast to rly notice the door open or anything
Me when simon says people will call him a shill in the comments: "haha what a fun joke" Me when simon says he doesnt think Boeing did it: "tf you just say?"
@@bernieburton6520 I belong to the small part of the population that happens to be sensitive to sound so I don’t like music. I have learned to tolerate it but in this case Simon’s talking was competing with the background music.
I thought the same. A few times he would read the evidence out and then completely ignore it in his opinion or confuse and contort it from what was read out
@@wesharris5465 Quick reminder that these are usually not read in one sitting. He records them over multiple hours, sometimes even days, so forgetting some details makes sense and is excusable. That said, yes factboy did seem strangely dismissive this time around. On the other hand, he has shown himself to be... strangely naive when it comes to (western) governments, lets call it "misbehaving" in the past.
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One of the Boeing whistle blowers explicitly said he wasn't going to take his own life. Only to turn up dead in his truck in a hotel parking lot shortly afterwards with little to no investigation being done before he was cremated.
Yeah, he's not a skeptic, he's a denier.
@@pairot01 If “He” refers to Simon I would suggest that he is kinda ignorant of some real world things. His latest decoding the unknown has opened my eyes a great deal on his knowledge about real world issues. Don’t get me wrong I like Simon but after he basically endorsed trump and said the war in Iraq after 911 was a war worth fighting kinda makes me think twice about his worldly views.
@@BlackNewty how did he endorse trump? Idk if i missed it or if an older episode i forgot
(I also agree that Simon is a bit ignorant to certain things about the world, but that's pretty par for the course for someone privileged like him)
@@dont-worry-about-it-no I think he said if he had to put a bet down it would be on Trump.
@@Noct_Snow that sounds vaguely familiar from a previous video. Tho I wouldn't consider that endorsement, moreso an educated guess given the last 3 elections and the current political climate. Simon seems like a reasonable guy and I don't think he would endorse that man (but of course idk Simon so that's just my parasocial opinion)
Twas there not once an Ml5 agent whom
"zipped himself up in a carry on, padlocked it from the outside. Placed himself within his own bathtub, then repeatedly stabbed himself, before disappearing the knife so it would never be found"
Such a terrible unavoidable accident.
Not heard he was stabbed, very suspicious story.
They have coveted this subject on the channel about 3 months ago.
he was not stabbed- but rest is accurate. (and technically was cryptography specialist, not agent.)
This was a Decoding the Unknown episode a few months ago.
Simon, Livor Morris has nothing to do with a person's liver - note the difference in the spelling? It has to do with blood settling down in the lowest part of a person's body.
My husband had a widow maker heart attack in his sleep at 38.
He'd just had a clean physical 2 weeks prior. 6'4" 215 pounds.
Doc said to stop sneaking cigarettes and find time to keep working out since we were expecting baby number two but other wise good to go. His doctor still seemed in shock at the funeral.
In retrospect, now that I know more about heart disease and the gene he carried, I can see that there were symptoms. They just were not symptoms he nor his doctor were thinking meant a guy with a six pack had heart disease.
He had intermittent shoulder pain. In a shoulder that had been severely injured previously and on the side where he carried our toddler who always wanted ups.
He had some fatigue. Again, we had a toddler. He ran his plumbing business and we were renovating our house. No one was getting much sleep.
Occasional, heartburn. Key word occasional. So not something he talked to his doctor about. He just took some pepcid and avoided the burrito truck the next day.
If he'd been having headaches, he didnt tell me.
I will say if you have to go, my hubby's way was the Cadillac of deaths. Painlessly in your sleep with the last thing you told your family being I love you.
I didnt have enough time with him. But I had the best time. ❤
My deepest condolences.
Sorry to hear that. My dad passed at 42 (in 2011) in a similar way. He had a disecting aortic aneurysm in his sleep. Was in good shape, ran a mile every morning, hit the gym every day.. And about 2 weeks before passing, he started getting severe dizziness/balancing problems. But the hospital wrote it off as a random vertigo & sent him on his way.
After he passed we learned that he likely had a connective tissue disorder which caused his aorta to balloon over a 20 year period (made worse by the exercising & lifting weights). May have been Ehler Danlos or Marfans syndrome.
❤❤❤
@@theConquerersMama don't ya worry he knows you love him and next time round you'll see him again
These the kinda stories that make you grip your loved ones a little harder in the next hug. Hope you and yours are doing better ❤️
For those of us old enough to have followed this issue at the time a few aspects of this video were weak.
1)Context. The US government was placing immense pressure on allies to join them in the war. Tony Blair and Alastair Campbell had tied their colours to the US mast. Gilligan's reports if verified were potentially career ending for both of them.
2) A very large group of coroners signed a letter queeying the official version.
3) It is simplistic to assume the only way for Dr K to be murdered is that Tony Blair told M who sent 007 to do the deed. As in the Boeing case, many firms stood to miss out on £billions if the war didn't happen. Whistleblowers can cost powerful people a fortune.
I dont know what happened to Dr K but this video did not do the issue justice.
France did not give in to pressure despite some backlash. USA put no more pressure than was applied regarding Vietnam, less probably. Wilson did not join that conflict and Blair had no excuse.
I agree, an awful lot of very very odd circumstances and " surprisingly poor standards of practice " not to mention the Coroners inquest. Too many coincidences glibly excused
At the point this was all happening the Blair government was already assumed to have exaggerated
The war in Iraq had started, and officially ended
and the Blair government won another election two years alter
The government had no reason to kill him, the Military firms had no reason ...
I love how many “Into The Shadows” Simon has read to be so trusting of the government. He minimizes how far a government will go to protect themselves and their interests.
Go watch brain blaze especially with the Australian video editor might change your mind and he knows he lives in Prague he knows
Which episode?
@@binkao2938 All of them
When he says " I keep an open mind when I read these things," after arguing against his writer from the start, then spends the entire rest of the script discounting every point made by his writers as he's reading it for the first time, it drives me crazy. I don't particularly believe there's damning evidence that the government killed this guy, but at no point did Simon entertain the possibility. He frustrates me so much sometimes. Not open minded, just as biased as some of the people he talks down to.
@@mikemans9636 Being funded by NATO or NATO-adjacent NGOs is probably at least a contributing factor.
It is a shame that just hours after this video went out, George suddenly swerved off the road into a field. Then his car leaked petrol everywhere despite being a diesel, causing it to combust taking any evidence to the cause along with it
What a sloppy hit.
The worst part, was that it is said that his stomach had ALOT of Basement shrooms inside, and too many for mere "enjoyment" factors... Also it is said there was a bald clone running from the scene
Simon: coincidence
George who? What happened?
George who? What happened?
How much incompetence does it take before it becomes deliberate.
Ask starmer.
As a US Army Infantryman it really rubs me the wrong way in such the manner of our number one reason to oust Sadaam was a lie that gave the Vice President Dick a substantial amount of non taxable income from all the logistics contracts were granted to Halliburton and every compound we fought from made him a shit boat load of money 💰 🤑 💸
I think the US military does a lot of wrong things, and if it's done for personal gains it's even worse. If I were more of an optimist I'd hope that people like you who've seen through it could do something about it.
All these wars are kindled into life to enable people like chaney to launder taxpayer's money into the pockets of themselves and their powerful friends. The Carlyle group and many others facilitate mass murder for profit. The British Prime Minister was famously a big face in The Carlyle group. The politicians and bankers get super rich off the bodies of dead innocents. It's so evil. Tony Blair collected 100s of millions after her retired. No doubt what Bush promised him for his support in the Iraq invasion.
As a uk army infantryman I feel the same 🫡
it wasn't about oil
it wasn't about halliburton shares
it wasn't the british secret service
join up the dots to work out who it was
who goes around the world assassinating people they don't like, but never admit to it ?
who benefitted from a destabilized iraq ?
who is best friends with b-liar ?
all fingers point to mossad
@@tubensalat1453And that would be what, exactly? You could at least provide e suggestion to the people you’re trying to guilt into taking risks you clearly wish not to take yourself.
Dude, one of the boeing whistleblowers was found shot dead inside his car in a parking lot, nothing of value being stolen. Wtf do you mean just coincidence??
Suicides tend not to steal from themselves
@@jgascoine011they also don't tend to explicitly say they aren't going to self delete the day before they do it. Food for thought
@@holdendewit7088 Far as I'm aware it was never confirmed he said that, it was that somebody who said they knew him said he said that.
@temerityxd8602 how do you confirm he said that if not from the person he said it to?
Yes
A man shot himself in the chest with a shotgun, then walked 15 feet to sit down on a parkbench and strangel himself with a piece of electrical cord. Suicide concluded the police. So was it also with the man that was found hanging from a three with two loads of buckshot in his chest, suicide concluded the police. A woman was found drowned in her Tesla, according to the police she had parked the car, turned it off and the car had rolled backwards into the lake. It was an accident said the police. The pont here is that the police sees and finds what they are ordered to see and find.
My daughter absolutely has struggled to swallow any medication that's not liquid, her entire life. She choked & it takes quite a few sips for each pill. She's now 21 and still only takes medication if she really has to and it's a whole thing to prep herself...if he was anything like that ...he could never have willingly swallowed more than a few. His body would've rejected them before it got lethal.
So glad you talked about Dr Kelly. I was really disturbed by the unholy reason given for his death/murder.
Did I miss why Simon isn't taking the lack of fingerprints more seriously? I might be on board with the incompetency theory if it wasn't for the lack of fingerprints on the blister packs or the knife, but that is just too strange of a detail.
Given it appeared to be a suicide/car accident collecting fingerprints would not been a priority. Also depending on the material the knife may not retain fingerprints or at least ones good enough to collect.
A lack of evidence is not itself evidence. While he wasn't wearing gloves when his body was found, it doesn't mean that he couldn't have been wearing them earlier, he could have handled them with a handkerchief, taking them in and out of the box could have wiped them away, it could have been raining making the prints unusable. Maybe they found prints but they couldn't conclusively match them because they were smeared or incomplete. There are a TON of reasons, and none of them even require incompetence, let alone conspiracy
Those gardening knives have rough wooden handles, not exactly good for preserving fingerprints. Also a lot of them are still carbon steel, which requires oiling the blade after a thorough cleaning to preserve it and stop rusting, again a terrible medium for preserving and collecting fingerprint. Even if we theorise that it was a super modern plastic handle (still made rough so not a lot can be collected from there) stainless steel blade version, during normal usage you usually support the blade with just your fingertip and it moves a lot so no fingerprint, but there might be DNA, mixed with all the dust,dirt, wood/plant DNA, so that is also highly unlikely to provide a conclusive result.
As for the blister packs, i usually hold them at their edge and use my pointing finger tip(half fingernail) to pop them so maybe they wouldn’t be able to find much there and normally those areas are not collected during an autopsy.
He wore gloves obviously
@@LONKALUKSV why would he wear gloves to commit suicide and did anyone say he was wearing gloves when his body was found?
I’m a little nervous to watch this as he’s a family friend, we lived 5 mins away from him as a kid. I’ve never thought it was suicide.
He was assassinated 100%.
He was one of the bio lab scientists that pioneered synthesis of the protein used in sterilisation of females by rejection of sperm.
@ source? Also doesn’t change what I said above.
@@charlottelay8220 wheres my comment?
@@thebritishbookworm2649 youtube a.i algo deletes any comment it thinks is spam or too sensitive.
My ex-colleague Dr. David A. Kay (IAEA and UN nuclear weapons inspector in Iraq) wrote a book about this time. I saw him on TV complaining about US policy. He was ignored by Bush, who was blindly set on going to war.
And that is why I dismiss the idea that the british government killing people in the US being potential reason for war. They most likely have some sort of treaty for that.
What book did he write?!?
40:55 Simon ChatGPT is wrong. It is voluntary for people to attend select committee's and famous incidences of people having refused to attend. But the Committee can petition to enforce it if they feel its in contempt of evidence through the House. So its not entirely right.
Similar in the US congress.
I'm glad I saw someone else caught that, this is the kind a stuff that makes me uneasy about people using chatGPT as a source for even low impact questions. It'll just give a wrong answer and cover it's own ass by saying "usually"
He's so stupid using this and thinking that it's going to get everything right it scrapes data from the internet. And on the internet tons of people put false information on it all the time
@MrJack123455 Yes, definitely agree. I am becoming incredibly uneasy with people over relying on chatGBT now and I swear rather than getting better it's got worse when I last used it. ChatGBT should be used as a crutch but if it can't even get something on what should be a simple question like that correctly then I got no confidence in it. I keep seeing every podcast person praising chatGBT when it is so faulty as f. I can honestly see the AI becoming the new financial bubble, get so over inflated and overheated in value that it will pop and crash and burn as quickly as is risen.
Simon's trust in that misinformation bot is kinda concerning
Simon is going overboard to debunk the idea that this guy could have been killed. I think there's decent evidence that this was murder.
"Simon is going overboard to debunk the idea"
He's possibly a part-time Change Agent for the PTB. It happens all the time. Many years ago, Con Coughlin (of _The Daily Telegraph_ ) was exposed as an MI5 stooge - and promptly resigned (for a while). Frankly, the idea of Mr Kelly's taking his own life is RISIBLE - the ONLY question being whodunnit.
I'm also suspicious of Robin Cook's death, just like how they showed Barry across in Eastenders
John smiths death leading to tony blair to replace change the direction of the labour party new labour
Please could you elaborate on what you mean by "just like how they showed Barry across in Eastenders"..?? Just to be clear, I'm also suspicious of Robin Cook's death but I don't understand the second half of your comment as I don't watch Eastenders so this is a genuine question. Thank you.
@@janeslater8004 Agreed.
Mate I'm starting to think John Smith was murdered to make way for Blair once he had got the public behind Labour.
@@janeslater8004my thoughts exactly, both Blair and Brown did their young global leaders a couple of years before taking power and the choice between them was very close, they were hedging their bets!
Simon, not all of us can practically dry swallow our meds 😂 I know people who need sooo much water to handle the way some pills (even small ones) feel, texturally
I very rarely disagree with Simon, but having listened to all the evidence presented by George I find the death of Dr Kelly very suspicious.
And very disrespectful in his deliverance of Dr Kelly's murder ( allegedly of course)
You genuinely believe that 2 Boeing whistleblowers dying just before testifying is a coincidence?
Just wanna say him studying insect viruses means stuff like Malaria and insect vector borne viruses-not viruses that necessarily make insects sick 🤣 I’m a lab human US side and it’s incredible the stuff people catch from various animal vectors
Thanks for clearing that up, humans aren't concerned about poorly tsetse flies.
I agree. However Asbestos fibres in the air while maybe getting poisoned while some idiot half of a man around believes the world is still being Germanized would be far worse. Didn't Theresa May complain about that sort of thing while a lot of average people like me chose to remain unaware about how Russia might be on the move in more ways than one while we were often being told to just be more positive over here in Canada too far away to affect us anyway. Since I have seen a lot under the microsope at school I couldn't agree that war elswhere would not ever be affecting me too.
I'd be on board with suicide explanation... If not for three things:
1> Not enough blood letted
2> Not enough medication found in blood
3> No fingerprints on knife or blister pack
Explain these three things, and sure.
But with such a high profile person suddenly dying with these issues... Yeahhh... I'm not with Simon here.
@JeskaDax I am curious if the "no fingerprints " indicates the surfaces were wiped clean so there's nothing there or that there are no usable prints due the surface area and/or texture. But there was the expected fingerprint smudges.
I feel like those are two very different scenarios.
@@theConquerersMama I agree. And yet there's not enough info on that aspect given to have clarity on that.
@JeskaDax people vomit when trying suicide by pills more often than movies make us think.
The blood aspect is curious.
@@theConquerersMama Yup. There's just some things that seriously need better explanations if suicide is to be believed.
Otherwise, I'd say it remains a mystery that needs some answers.
As to why the slashed wrist is odd: the intelligence services may be aware that a slashed wrist isn’t a certain way to kill someone, but they don’t have to be. It may not be how he died. They do know a slashed wrist, a visible, seemingly self inflicted injury, will lead the average layman down the path of suicide, more so than, he’s just dead for some unclear reason. It could have been inflicted more so make it look like he did it to himself, for the press, media, public etc, rather than be an actual attempt of the act to end his life
A scientific friend of Dr Kelly attested that the knife he supposedly used was blunt and the Drs wrist was badly affected by joint problems. He would have had to have hacked at the wrist.
I have multiple autoimmune diseases so take just above 20 pills at a time once a day. I use my whole 16 oz water bottle which roughly translates to 250 ml of water. But pills don't bother me and this is a daily thing so I'm used to it. Someone who isn't used to taking meds or doesn't like taking pills, 250 ml of water is SUPER pushing it.
I obviously don't know what happened, but just commenting on that one bit.
For one pill a sip is fine, bot not for that amount. At least when you're not used to it.
Well, Simon says you’re full of poo so I guess you’d better stop lying.
16 oz of water is just under 500 mL of water! Source: I work in a lab in the US so we have a ton of things marked with both metric and imperial volume measurements. My water bottle is also a 1-liter Nalgene so it’s trippy when I’m in the low-speed centrifugation area because we have dozens of bottles made from an identical mold but a softer plastic in there
I have both graves disease and hashimotos (and they somehow do not cancel each other out) and i had absolutely no idea i had either disease until i was trying to get pregnant and wasn't having any success. When it was discovered, my thyroid hormone numbers were so out of wack that my doctors were shocked that i was alive, much less that i didn't have any symptoms besides infertility. Some conditions show no symptoms or nothing serious enough to send someone to the doctor about it despite being very serious.
Yeah. Doctor here. You would be amazed how long people can compensate for (especially younger people) right up until they suddenly don’t, or it turns up as an incidental finding.
@--enyo-- yeah it was undetected for up to two years for sure. If there were signs of it before then, they would have been pretty mild as it was discovered after I had my first child.
I have family members with Graves' and Hashimoto's and I didn't even know it was possible to have both since they seem diametrically opposed, that's wild. Have you been investigated for Schmidt's Syndrome?
@marjorie666 never heard of that one but the endocrinologist i saw was very thorough so I'd be surprised if he missed something major. I'll look into that one though! Thank you 😊
The fact there’s both at once, and they do opposite things, might have made the symptoms less clear since again, these are opposites
Video suggestion. Could you do a video about the conspiracy theory that British Prime Minister Harold Wilson was a spy for the Soviet's. Its a very interesting one and would be fun to do.
Was going to write and do my own video on it but I just never got round to finishing it and I would like this channel to cover the topic.
Thumbs up if you agree with this idea.
I thought it was China he was spying for. 🫢
Wasn't it China he was supposed to be spying for? Or was that a Daily Mail story?
That was a lie spread by Montbatten and others.
problem is its total bs and has been widely known s such for ages
@keefymckeefface8330 I didn't say I believed in it and this is called Decoding the Unknown and they debunk things that is often tried to be presented as facts as well you know
I totally believe that a heart condition can be missed. It took 4 doctors and 10 years in 2 states to diagnose my wife with atrial fibulation in her 30's/40's. Every time there was an event, by the time she was hooked up to a heart monitor, the event had ended. Several times, we got to the hospital during the event, only to have it end before leads were attached. Twice an ambulance was called - same issue. After it was finally diagnosed, it took 3 procedures to fix the problem. The last doctor, during the test where trigger an event to locate where to do the procedure, had the fun of talking to her for a few minutes while she had no pulse.
In case anyone is wondering, she says everything felt "heavy", but her brain worked fine, and restarting it hurt like hell. The doctor was very curious - no surprise there. I keep waiting for her to be taken off to study. 😂
That constant fire alarm type noise in the background is bloody annoying, but due to our fantastic host I'll put up with it 👍
My wife is a hospice nurse. She pronounces deaths fairly regularly. What she describes is not so simple as taking a pulse, there's multiple things she checks, and they take time. But she's never described it taking so long as 25 minutes. I always gathered it's a 5-10 minute process usually.
Yessir, coming from an ICU nurse. 5- 10 minutes. AND, Livor Mortis has nothing to do with the liver. See how they're spelled differently ? Livor Mortis is when the blood settles in the lowest part of the body. It appears blue or reddish, it can happen rather quickly after death, and is a clear indication that someone has died.
It's shorter than that, really. It takes possibly 2 minutes to check everything. The time is usually taken in compassion for the family. You can't rush this process. 18:39
@@Seamonkey555correct. It's a fast process. Slow only if you for some reason need to flip the body and for some reason you can't (say once a seemingly normal body when flipped on their side revealed gastric bleeding)
I saw a hospice nurse pronounce my dad in front of me. They checked things on his front, turned him on his side to check his back and double-checked everything. And even then it only took about 3 minutes. But I can imagine 5-10 makes sense for more complicated cases/larger patients.
There's a fantastic book called An Inconvenient Death by Miles Goslett. It's about this case
Sounds very interesting?….I will have a look at that 😊
Ok thanks I just ordered it 👍👍
Thoroughly recommended.
@ yeh I got it yesterday reading some of it now?!….it’s just dam crazy how a lot of people really listen to the governments and they can do no wrong and think they are there to help and protect you?!?!?. 🤦♂️🤦♀️
.......plus another book written by 'M.P. Norman Baker - titled "THE STRANGE DEATH OF DAVID KELLY' published 2007 in the UK.
Right at that same period, also Robin Cook conveniently died of heart attack whilst trekking somewhere in the Welsh mountains (I think).
Robin Cook was also a vocal opponent to the Iraqi invasion within the cabinet. I wonder…
30 minutes to die from an artillery bleed? That guy is horribly wrong. It would take at most 2 minutes to die from a femoral artery bleed.
That depends on the position of the artery, the position of the person's body and the size of the cut. I've cared for patients who developed a small nick in their femoral artery during a procedure and they bled very slowly into their peritoneal recess,meaning it wasn't visible on the outside of the body. The bleeding was slow because of the very small size of the cut and.. the pressure being exerted on it because of swelling at the site. This patient just very slowly kept dropping his blood pressure,which the nurse noted and he was taken back to surgery to have it repaired.
I also have recovered a patient from OR who had a surgery on his femoral artery, connecting it to the popliteal artery. BTW, this is why patients like this are kept on the ICU for at least 24 hrs. In neither case was there dramatic spraying of blood. In the first case there was just a continual dropping of his blood pressure and loss of blood as shown on his lab work. It was recognized as a concern by his nurse and he returned to the OR to have it repaired.
In the 2nd case, there was no loss of blood pressure and the patient seemed stable. But, the dressings on his leg had to be changed 2 times within the first hour. The experienced nurse recognized this as abnormal, called the surgeon, who came in and took him back to surgery to repair the leak.
So it depends on the injury itself, although I have seen blood spraying at other times.
For the American viewers- the medication he took is called Darvocet here. It was taken off the market due to its potential for high toxicity and heart issues. Which is why I would have thought George would have brought up that many of the terminally ill have used it for deletion. It was considered the "drug of choice" for such things. So it wouldn't be unusual for this drug to be used for a hit.
Tony Blair. I remember after John Smith (super boring name I know!) died, and my friends and I were so upset as he seemed to be a genuine man with a real plan to change the UK, then Anthony Charles Lyndon Blair came along, calling himself “Tony” and used the Labour movement for his own gain. We thought he was cool at first. We were wrong. Dr Kelly may not have been killed by the higher ups (jury still out) but Tony Blair did kill my (and many in my generation)’s belief in government.
PM Tony Blair = I’m Tory Plan B. (That is a real acronym! Coincidence? Yes, but it is still funny given what the man was and did!)
For context I am now 45 and so was 18 when Blair came to power.
Nearly two hours of Simon saying "There's nothing interesting going on!" And yet I'm still here 👍
Next up: Gareth Williams. The man found dead in a dufflebag in a bleached clean flat and it was ruled a suicide
I think it's already been covered on one of Simon's channels.
Go back 6 months. The episode is "The spy in the bag".
The odds are good it was ruled a suicide in order to close the public case so the spy agencies could take it over.
That's come up multiple times
It’s already been covered relatively recently on this channel. Like only a few months ago.
Trusting the government as hard as Simon does makes me envy his bliss.
note on the part about Wiley in Memphis: As a Memphis native, it is very likely that the car did sit on the bridge for 4 hours without being reported. There are cars that sit on the side of the road for days before a road crew will come by and mark it for towing. Abandoned vehicles are either stolen, broken down, or out of gas and the driver has walked to the nearest gas station. In general we don't report them because..frankly..there's a mentality here of "not my horse, not my race". You keep your nose out of stuff where it doesn't belong because if you poke around you're likely to find yourself in the middle of stuff you don't want to be in the middle of.
Also regarding why he was crossing the bridge. There are any number of reasons. But this is the least remarkable point when you know the area. Germantown is pretty far outside of memphis proper. BUT. A ton of good clubs and bars are located downtown as well as the Orpheum theater for the classier folks. Now if you are headed downtown from Germantown it's likely you'll hit a point where you either make a quick turn off the interstate using a poorly marked exit toward the (now) Bass Pro pyramid or you're stuck going across the bridge. Likely a drunk fella was downtown, got his wires crossed trying to hit another bar, missed his exit (if you live in memphis, you'll know you'd miss this exit sober) and boom. Now you're stuck crossing the river into Arkansas.
Simon, you said he "might not be used to high-stress situations" but he worked with bioweapons. Idk about you but I'd be pretty stressed
It's a different stress though. Sure working with dangerous things is stressful, but he completely understood what he was doing and when he spoke about it he was listened to and respected. Also, when he wasn't working, nobody recognized him and he could compartmentalize it. Getting raked over the coals by your government for things you never said, and looking awkward, uncomfortable and ignorant on national TV is a totally different thing. If the guy never talked about his family situation as a kid, having the tabloids publicize every embarrassing thing he'd ever done would be terribly upsetting for him.
Someone should tell Simon that Okham‘s Razor doesn’t mean to not believe in „conspiracy theories“ and go with unlikely scenarios to support the official narrative.
Dr. Kelly perished in highly suspicious circumstances and the inquiry was flawed at best. And that much is clear from all the facts - the ones Simon kept reading out whilst trying to explain each one away.
The conspiracy theory isn't likely. The "facts that don't make sense" are very weak arguments, & even if I grant them all, they don't prove a conspiracy. People are so quick to seize on the slightest thing that isn't solved exactly as clearly as an episode of CSI & insist it proves a conspiracy when the reality is the reason that most crimes go unsolved is it's actually really hard to solve crimes & a lot of evidence just doesn't survive.
@@TheLithpwhat I heard throughout most of the video is that the evidence makes the case of suicide extremely unlikely, not specifically that he was murdered. Simon just reaching as far as the conspiracy theorists to fit the given narrative is the opposite of “Occam’s Razor.” Every single point of evidence against the narrative doesn’t need to create a new narrative, only to poke holes in the existing one. It’s entirely plausible that the official statement is completely wrong and the government of the UK did not do enough work investigating this death.
Edit: Also what do you mean by “weak?” It’s not strange for a man to barely drink water when shown to have trouble taking pills? Or that his fingerprints weren’t on anything supposedly used to kill himself, or that the narrative of him bleeding out isn’t supported by the actual evidence at the scene and challenged by multiple professionals in their field? That’s already past a reasonable doubt to me.
@@HiveTyrant25 Then you need to check your ears because that's just straight up not what happened in the video. Simon granted that it could be the cause of death was misidentified, like maybe it was actually natural causes for instance, but he thinks either scenario is more likely than the conspiracy murder because there's not real evidence for it.
As for the evidence, I'm not going to go over every single thing, so I think it's fair to address the specific examples you used. The pill argument is silly, I used to struggle to take pills too, but now I can do it as easy as Simon does. Do you know why? Because that's primarily psychological. It's a massive unwarranted assumption that someone in his frame of mind would still be too squeamish to take pills. Not finding fingerprints means effectively nothing. Fingerprint residues are very fragile structures that rarely stay intact enough to identify. A lot of other comments have talked about how the described surfaces are very poor for retaining fingerprints. "11 doctors signed a letter" is incredibly unimpressive. Do you know you can easily find "open letters" where hundreds of scientists have said that evolution or climate change is a hoax? That doesn't make it true, it means there are a lot of scientists, doctors, etc. making it very easy for someone to cherry pick those that agree with their position. It's an incredibly basic trick used by all manner of cranks.
Now, let me assume, for argument's sake, you intend to tell me I'm "reaching just as much as the conspiracy theorists," as you did with Simon. Well, doesn't that seem like an unsolvable trap? Like no explanation of why the evidence isn't as strong as you think it is matters because the mere act of explaining it can be framed as "reaching"? Besides, I think that's a fundamental false equivalence. The conspiracy theorist needs to provide positive evidence of a conspiracy, not just that they didn't find this or they didn't find that. They need to show that a murder was actually more likely than the guy vomiting up the pills, which is a very mundane explanation that would explain their absence. In general, most evidence when someone dies out in nature for whatever reason is never found because so many things could happen to it & it could be anywhere. It does not prove some elaborate government conspiracy. An explanation in the video itself was provided for how a body could seem weirdly bloodless, & also, I kept wondering why no one addressed the fact that blood would likely seep into the soil.
If there was a suspect, maybe some witnesses saw him taken off by sketchy people, then I'd be more likely to agree there's a reasonable doubt. As it stands, this is one of the weakest conspiracy theories I've ever heard. You say you aren't positively asserting this, but that's what some of the points are explicitly about. Like the main argument with the coroner is whether he was covering something up or simply being incompetent.
And no, it's not true that "evidence just needs to poke holes in the official narrative." If a conspiracy is being alleged, then the explanation has to work, it can't just have a dozen disconnected arguments that don't work together. As a competing explanation, it has to, y'know, compete. You wouldn't accept the argument that "the facts in the official narrative don't need to line up together, they just need to be possible individually" because that's clearly ridiculous.
Finally, if you're going to object again that you're totally not alleging a conspiracy, I don't see what you're complaining about. Neither I nor Simon are claiming it's impossible that there was some other cause of death that was misidentified. We're just not convinced that a suicide has been ruled out, & certainly not that a conspiracy has been proven, at least not based on the evidence presented here. As George himself wrote in his script, you're always going to get a few cases where you can't quite figure out how everything happened, but that's not equal to proving a conspiracy or even proving the overall scenario wrong. Again, flip the logic back, do you accept the lack of other footprints, signs of a struggle, etc. as definitive proof that there wasn't a murderer? So, then, us not knowing where some of the evidence ended up doesn't prove it wasn't self-inflicted. And it really looks like he at least attempted, whether or not there was maybe some other underlying condition that is what actually did him in.
@@TheLithp cause of death is my job, i wouldn't rule it a suicide. Bye
@@TheLithpwhat a load of BS you talk 😂
This guy is so into himself, he forgot Kelly's name...
At the time of Dr. David Kelly’s death (2003) I was also prescribed a high dosage of Co-proxamol on a long term basis to treat chronic pain. However this medication was withdrawn from use in the UK market not too long after his death, I think within a couple of years, due to safety concerns. All co-proxamol use in the UK is now on an unlicensed basis.
Since the withdrawal, further safety concerns have been raised which have resulted in co-proxamol being withdrawn in other countries. There has been a major reduction in deaths involving the pain-relief drug co-proxamol since it was withdrawn in the UK, an Oxford University-led study has found.
On a personal note, at the risk of giving TMI, I can easily knock back a handful of large nutritional supplement capsules in one go with only a small amount of water! I never swallow each individual tablet separately.
no trace of Co Proxamol (Distalgesic) was found in his blood samples., Tony Blair removed it from prescriptive use soon after to make it more believeable to the public this was a causative agent, it was very convienent that a strip of the tablets was found close to his body.
Lancet has revealed that the replacement analgesia has been responsible 10 fold in drug related suicides.
Co Proxamol is still available on special prescription to the tune of over £300 for a box of 100.
"There has been a major reduction in deaths involving the pain-relief drug co-proxamol since it was withdrawn in the UK, an Oxford University-led study has found."
Duh!
Since "Clackers" were banned in the mid 1970s, the statistical chance of receiving Clackers-related injuries has been dramatically reduced!
"The word we can't say on youtube."
do you know how little that narrows it down?
That's a phrase not a word.
@@EnDigoLazer are you slow?..
@@EnDigoLazersu*cide is a phrase now is it? 🤔
If you've watched the satire "In the Loop" - film version of Veep/The Thick of It, it plays out this situation; a document ending up causing America and UK going to war. Definitely recommend.
Yes. It's amazing how many 'fiction' films have more facts in them than documentaries lol.
40:54 I prefer ChatGPT's prior voice. 😂
I completely agree
If you have coronary artery disease it does not usually show up on a 12 lead ECG / EKG, you need to put a person on a treadmill for changes to appear. This is known as a stress test. It is a build up of plaque in the coronary arteries that forms over years and decades. A study was done on returning bodies of US soldiers killed in Vietnam (RIP) showing a considerable number had the start of this process.
Then there is hypertrophic cardiomyopathy which may or may not be seen on an ECG, you need an echo to diagnose it. This is the condition that causes young fit people to drop down dead including athletes.
I had a family member who had a complete physical and was given a clean bill of health.
Four days later he died of massive heart attack.
He’d had no history of heart issues.
A bit flippant about the death of sir david....i followed the case at the time it was horrendous, and alaistair campbel appears on tv as if he wasnt involved
But he covered the story, the name will never be forgotten.
1:25 - Mid roll ads
2:50 - Back to the video
5:05 - Chapter 1 - Dr Kelly
13:15 - Chapter 2 - The political shitstorm
42:55 - Chapter 3 - The death
45:50 - Chapter 4 - The official narrative
54:05 - Chapter 5 - Somethings no right...
1:28:20 - Chapter 6 - A series of suspicious deaths
1:52:00 - Chapter 7 - The answer
1:55:00 - Conclusion
21:30 Simon coming to the defense of George against George is adorable
The lack of fingerprints on the gardening knife and plastic + foil blister packs of Co-proxamol is meaningless. Fingerprint success depends entirely upon the quality of the surface you’re taking them from and gardening knives are largely made of hard plastic handles that are often patterned so retrieving prints is virtually impossible, the same applies to the blister packs of tablets - they’re basically cheap plastic and foil which isn’t conducive to prints either…. Add slippery blood and you won’t be retrieving any successfully lifted prints. Today we normally take a ‘liver temperature’ to determine time of death. One person takes the ambient temperature where the body is found, another person takes the liver temperature of the body and from these 2 temperatures you can determine an approximate time of death which can be anytime within a 4 - 6 hour period. You cannot determine an ‘exact time’ of death using rigor mortis or lack there of, or from body temperature. Even taking a sample of fluid from the eyeball which contains Potassium that dissipates at a pre-determined rate following death doesn’t give the EXACT time, just an approximate nearest time to within a couple of hours of death.
Just so we are clear, he was studying how insects transmit viruses amongst human and animal populations as a form of spreading and not so much worried about an insect catching the flu and how to treat it hahaha
I can't believe Simon doesn't think the government wouldn't bump people off
Either he is CIA or a gullible fool.
No idea where you got that idea from, he just doesn’t think the government did this one.
1:50:44 he literally says he thinks the government kills people are you slow
So I lived through an injury to that artery. Hand slipped trying to cut open a box. It was only able to go so deep because it was a new blade and it happened really fast. And yes, it went EVERYWHERE..... My coworker said it looked like a crime scene.
Harrowdown Hill is a song by Thom Yorke. It’s super good and emotional. You know the CIA and MI6 took em out.
I have an issue with the conspiratorial narrative about the heart condition stuff.
What is more likely?
1) they missed it.
2) they found it, but kept it secret in case they needed to fake the guy’s suicide in ten days time by the tried-and-true assassination method of ‘hoping it kills him’.
I’m not incredulous that they missed it; I am incredulous that bad luck is something that could be considered sinister.
That said, I don’t think he killed himself, but I do think it’s possible that he died during a suicide attempt that would not otherwise have worked were it not for the confluence of events involved in it, including the unknown factor of the heart condition.
And I do also think that - whilst the Blair government was execrable and bloody to the cuffs over Iraq - the government doesn’t really have that much of a motive to kill him. I think he was hounded by the press, who are famously absolute bloody psychotic jackals, and he was emotionally destabilised by extreme anxiety, and died of a compound issue involving a medical condition.
If not for the really bad move and really dodgy optics of not allowing a proper inquest, this conspiracy wouldn’t have ever had any fuel to it - and thus we arrive at the fact that the government of the time were panicky, negligent dickheads, which we knew anyway.
And finally, my own conjecture is just as valid as the conjecture presented by the conspiracy theory.
RIP, Doctor. This didn’t need to happen.
The only thing I really question is the lack of fingerprints, but given the shoddy investigation, I think they just didn’t use the right technique to find them.
I agree wholeheartedly that the quality of the investigation led to the speculation.
You are forgetting the obvious optiion 3: He never had a heart condition.
@ but none of the other stuff was sufficient to kill him? Seems more likely it was a confluence of the three together.
I’m just making the point that an Occam’s razor taken to this doesn’t involve taking the facts as presented and making stuff up in order to make it sinister. After he died, they say that they found he had a nascent heart issue - I’m not saying that I know that was what killed him, I don’t know that.
What I’m saying is that the belief that they found the heart condition and deliberately didn’t say to him “mate, your heart is knackered” as a deliberate attempt to prep for a potential future assassination mechanism they didn’t know they might need at that point in the timeline and over which they have no direct control is, in my opinion, extremely silly.
@@steveharrison76 Yea, I agree that it was mostly all three factors together.
He went for a walk with the aim of not coming back. Doing the cutting and pills along the way. He then to a break at the place he was found. While the blood loss was not enough to kill a healthy person, it together with the physical activity caused is heart to stop.
He vomited up the most of the pills while on the walk. What was found in his stomach was just the remains of the last dose he took.
He wss assassinsted. Nothing you said was relevant
In this episode Simon says, "Why would you bother having someone die in a plane crash if you could just fake an accident?" Being a skeptic is a good thing, but sometimes his "skepticism" takes the form of being an idiot.
Honestly this has changed my view from the tinfoil one. Two attempts that didn't do enough damage to kill him outright but did trigger his heart to pack in. Maybe he threw up in a bush earlier after having taken the pills at home which would explain the low drug levels. Not enough damage to do blood loss, but the combined shock of everything gave him a heart attack.
As to motive - his career and reputation were in flames. The *only* way I would entertain foul play would be the classic "if you take yourself out then we will make sure your family are safe" but tbh he seems to have been far more an asset than a liability to the government.
I used to work with someone who was a close relative to one of the first paramedics to attend. Apparently he suggested that this did not look like suicide
"gonna need some extraordinary evidence," *proceeds to ignore all evidence.*
It's an unpopular opinion because you're demonstrably wrong simon. The information at the time was that there were *no* wmds. Bloody hell this whole video is giving me flashbacks. I was there at the protests btw. George is so bang on the money with this script
but the evil people made money
I’m not sure I like this man’s flippant attitude a man has died here or has been killed please let’s have a little bit of respect.
I agree
A brilliant essay on a forgotten time. Dr. Kelly really could be taught as the prime example of the ravenous News monster at full tilt. Poor devil.
Simon blaming government incompetence while simultaneously crediting competence to the Drs on the government list of candidates is *chef's kiss* irony.
I must ask, as Dr. Kelly was a Very Successful Chemist, wouldn't he have been more likely to have self-deleted with some sort of magically effective toxin or some such rather than slicing his wrist?
That also came to mind, didnt he previously work at the lab that made anthrax and all that? You would think he could cook up something a bit more effective than his wifes pills, especially as he hated taking them.
Why make the process complicated instead of using what's on hand?
@@Spicypoptart1 You realize that could spread, right? I don't think he wanted to take all of Europe with him. Also, there's security protocols, so you can't just walk out of a lab with a superbug.
@@TheLithp didnt say he should have stolen some anthrax, just that he probably knew how to make something at home that would be a bit more foolproof.
@@Spicypoptart1 yes, this technique is at odds with anyone who knows what they're doing, particularly. someone who has access to lab supplies. Interesting the George didn't mention that the first responders held a press conference in which they described a lot of fishy business.
the boeing whistleblower who died of a stroke likely was an unfortunate coincidence, but john barnett had WAY too many suspicious things happen. shot in the back of the head on the day before he is planned to release information, absolutely i understand the argument of "he already whistleblew what would it accomplish" but him being a known whistleblower would allow others unwilling to go public with their info to share it to john, who could then bring further information to light. there was too much they had to gain from a corporate perspective, and while i agree it isnt joe boeing pulling the trigger, the world we live in is one which shows us too many examples of company backed killings for me to think a company which is a major part of the military industrial complex would be hung up on the morality or legality of a murder, and the attempted cover-up has way too many very clear issues, even if you wanna ignore all the short term profits boeing would see from getting rid of him.
Thoroughly recommended: book, 'An Inconvenient Death' by Miles Goslett.🤔
First, I must say, its so unfortunate that Simon killed himself by drowning, stabbing himself in the back 76 times and overdosing on opioids in that order.
Secondly, its not unreasonable that governments can kill people outside of their country, Russia allegedly does this a lot of times.
As an American, if he was murdered, I think USA did it. George Bush (the younger) personally had a great deal riding on making sure we got into Iraq. Thanksgiving week after the election, before the Supreme Court had even decided he had actually won the election, he had a meeting at his ranch in Texas with all the people he wanted to appoint to his cabinet for the soul purpose of brainstorming how to get American troops into Iraq.
It'd be nice to know WHAT heart condition he had.
Also, this seems like a lot to put a lid on politicians not even lying, but just spinning and choosing the facts that they had at their disposal. The stakes just don't seem that high
You're in trouble with the Lizard Overlords, Simon.
Yesssssssss, big trouble!
@sydneyslaughter7163 LOL!! He won't have to worry about the British government if the Lizard Overlords are after him. LOL!
Nah, he’s drinking the Kool-Aid for 99% of the video, he’s fine. George however might unalive himself soon.
@@HiveTyrant25 Considering the video really didn't come to any hard conclusions, I would think that Simon is safe from the Continuum. They don't like chastising their own. Allegedly. However, George may not be so lucky. He should find a dark place in the basement for a little while. LOL!
@Hillbilly001 safe from his employment management? Hilarious
lol I kind of love Simon immediately rebutting almost all of George’s points. sorry George
If Simon hadn’t spent so much time on it I’d be surprised this one got published. So many stretches being made in this one-especially towards the end 😂
If you need to ask "Did the British Government" about anything, the answer is probably yes.
Governments seek absolute power, and absolute power corrupts.
Same but x10 for corporations.
The protest figures from the London rally are not shocking. The US anti'war rallies were massive, but massively downplayed on purpose to make it seem like the was was overall positively viewed in the states.
Unfortunately, Simon is all too willing to belive offcial accounts os incidents and do his best to disregard any contradicting evidence. For an |open minded" person, he seems to have a very narrow acceptance range.
36:55 of course you'd think Blair is given an unreasonably hard time. Afterall, it is not your country that was devastated by his war. It is not your siblings, relatives and loved ones who were killed, raped and obliterated. It is not your hometown that was made into ruins. It is not your future that was done for. It is not your brother who came home in a body bag.
Short answer: yes. Long answer: yes, multiple times.
If this happened in Russia you would believe every word of it lol.
Or as the Russians say, "Never believe anything till the Kremlin denies it."
Yeah cause Russia has a documented history of assassinating dissidents unlike Britain.
Look up "dr death Wouter Basson laced underpants"
A very good point.
Simon: "Yeah, I'll remain skeptical."
Also Simon, *Doesn't display any skepticism at all*
Good to know you don't need to make it look like suicide or an accident IF the people "investigating" will say it is anyway.
I love how george is like "i know i havent mentioned the whistleblower in 1400 words" and simon is immediately like "nah let yourself cook george"
Shoutout to George for a great script
Liver temp is far more accurate than rectal temperature, and less time sensitive than rectal.
You went all consiracy theory about JFK
Was a little disappointed with that one, especially since some of the evidence that made him lean towards conspiracy was stuff that already been disproven.
@@temerityxd8602 Glad I'm not the only one with this opinion.
Anybody else notice he changed shirts in the middle? With no explanation, in the middle of the video, and back to the same shirt at the end? No reference by the editor either. Solidly makes a person go 'hrm'.
Simon has said these long videos are usually recorded over multiple days.
@@SEAZNDragon Recognized. But the middle? And the front and back of the video look identical from the shirt to the background, but the middle is different. Like he had to reshoot the middle. Again, he has snarky editors. Editing is different from his other videos on this channel.
@@walteringle2258 It's 3 different shirts. The 1st shirt is a pleated polo & the 3rd is just a regular t-shirt. Also, what do the editors matter? They don't have the power to change Simon's shirt.
Just saying, Dr. Benito Que's surname should be read as "keh" (or "kay", if the former is too difficult for you). It's an uncommon Spanish surname.
1:15:15 I can take tablets with basically no water, but only one at a time and only so many in a short span of time (I then have to pause for my spit to refill). If I'm using water, however, I can take 3-4 regular-sized ibuprofen tablets per sip (I could try for more, but there's the risk that some of them don't go down and remain in my mouth). Either way, it's possible to take ~30 pills with relatively little water.
Yes, yes they did. The truth will out Dr. Kelly.
There was some impact in pop culture. Thom Yorke recorded a song called Harrowdown hill about Kelly's death. Someone also wrote a play named "Death of a Scientist".
I believe that Tony Blair is an actual narcissist.
My gathering from this episode: the coroner was incompetent or the assassin was incompetent. As for which government, wouldn't the Iraqi government be more suspect, since the good doctor spent a lot of time getting rid of their bio stashes?
Yes they did. The trail leaves no doubt
Blair did it 😢
1:38:03 i live in arkansas and have crossed that bridge going to Memphis a few times and honestly wouldnt think twice about a car on the shoulder - also it's a major interstate, you're going too fast to rly notice the door open or anything
I live in Memphis.
Me when simon says people will call him a shill in the comments: "haha what a fun joke"
Me when simon says he doesnt think Boeing did it: "tf you just say?"
Unless you are a Kurd, Iraq was doing great under Saddam.. A political solution should have been sought. Was it about Oil? Probably.. Now lets watch.
Simon, get down to the basement and demand a script on William Shakespeare and who really wrote his plays.
TURN DOWN THE DAMNED BACKGROUND MUSIC!!!!
I SECOND THAT!
LOUD NOISES!!!
Im outside, thought it was a truck by me😂😂
Do people actually notice the background music? It's not even loud enough for me to pay attention to it at all.
@@bernieburton6520 I belong to the small part of the population that happens to be sensitive to sound so I don’t like music. I have learned to tolerate it but in this case Simon’s talking was competing with the background music.
Gotta say Simon seems easily confused on the evidence throughout this.
I thought the same. A few times he would read the evidence out and then completely ignore it in his opinion or confuse and contort it from what was read out
@@wesharris5465 Quick reminder that these are usually not read in one sitting.
He records them over multiple hours, sometimes even days, so forgetting some details makes sense and is excusable.
That said, yes factboy did seem strangely dismissive this time around.
On the other hand, he has shown himself to be... strangely naive when it comes to (western) governments, lets call it "misbehaving" in the past.
@@vyran7044the cover up starts with the YT cia / mi5 channels
"I am the powerful magician Betty... Your shirt is striped!"