Could A Single F-15E Have Stopped The 1941 WWII Pearl Harbor Attack? (Naval Battle 46b) | DCS
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- Опубліковано 6 тра 2024
- We explore the claim that a single modern F-15 Strike Eagle could have destroyed the Imperial Japanese Fleet that attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941. We use DCS to run a full simulation. Things get rather, tense...
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0:00 Tog's Intro
3:24 Grim Reapers Briefing
4:57 Grim Reapers Attempt With 1 F-15E
17:06 Grim Reapers Attempt With 6 F-15E's
17:51 Grim Reapers Re-Attempt With 6 F-15E's
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Next Sim, please send a flight of 10 B-52s to carpet bomb the fleet!
ua-cam.com/video/hvoYLBafPeY/v-deo.html
@@grimreapers but did you Rapid Dragon it? Because we all know how much you loved doing 4 of those in a row. Lol
If it sounds interesting or involves big booms, GRs done it.
@@grimreapers
I remember the Bone's carpet bombing and the ineffectualness of those plus the tactical nuke. I think the nuke needed to be air-burst over the carrier group. But, really, I had hoped for a Vietnam war-type B-52 carpet bombing strike. Watching the B-52s at work from a Fire Base was...cool!
I wanna see an AC-130 rain down terror and dismay on the entire fleet at 28,000 feet in the day or at 7,000 feet at night. Night will be preferred because the zeros didn't even have radar on board and it's a more realistic range for that howitzer to hit each of those targets without needing to stay put past it's bed time.
What the in-game AI can't simulate is the sheer awe and terror a pilot from 1941 would feel at seeing what looks like a spaceship from an afternoon sci-fi serial, moving at impossible speed, attacking your fleet from what to you is an impossible distance. Plus it's carrying the markings of your enemy.
I don't know which would be more terrifying in 1941, the F-15 itself, or each bomb following the fleet as they made evasive maneuvers.
And of course, you have the added horror of watching all 5 of your carriers go up in flames within minutes, so now you have no choice to put your plane in the drink whether you choose to attempt to intercept the alien craft or not...
The Japanese pilot would have called that a foo fighter.
A phoo fighter.
You've never seen the documentary The Final Countdown on this subject
@@fogg1966 "documentary" - beautiful.
Even more scary is the F15 was flying 30 years post WWII and here we are 50 years since the Eagle first flew…
Great observation. Amazing the progress from WW2 and how longstanding the F15 has been.
Scary??
F15E was only available in 1986 as an operational strike fighter. F15A was 30 years after the beginning of WW2 and wasn’t a strike fighter but an air to air superiority fighter.
So it’s about 44-45 years after WW2 that you get the F15E multi role
The cold war arms race was insane
@@radicalxg8282 civilians are more insane now.
I was a f-15E crew chief before I ended my enlistment, that is the general mechanic and marshaler for those who don’t know, the footage at the beginning was a good bit of nostalgia, especially seeing jets from my old squadron.
Yeah sure
In reality, once the protective nose cone was compromised, your radar would fail from the brute force of air pressure.
In reality, the zeros wouldn’t know he was there, and would turn tail if they did.
I wouldn't be sure that the Japanese pilots would turn tail.
considering they will have nowhere to land to those planes if their carriers all sunk.
Also Japanese pilots were known for their heroics and self-sacrificing ethics.
@@gelmir7322 yeah but there is clearly nothing they could do. They would probably just try to bail and land near their allied ships to be recovered.
Bullshit. Zero pilots never ran. Wasn't in their nature @@electricheisenberg5723
@@BigGameTracker His comment was moronic.
To the Japanese fleet, it would have seemed an alien craft appeared, destroyed their carriers, and flew away straight up into the sky -
Therefore they nicknamed it “Tengu”
And that would have been the right tactic: hit the carrier and then climb away far beyond the range of the Zeros. Move to away at speed to another target, descend and hit it before the defenders can even react. Repeat. The Zeroes can get to 20,000ft but they cannot possibly keep up with an F15 that can be at 20,000ft in one spot and then move away. It would be hopeless for the defenders. Done at night, there would not even be a fight. No defense. And if the F15 had a WMD, the whole fleet is done. Whatever survives would be absolutely terrified and have no ability to fight.
@@LatitudeSkyI was laughing at them doing high G flat turns. Get vertical. The Zero can’t follow in climb or dive.
And it was only 34 years between Pearl Harbor and when the F-15 entered service.
@@MisterMikhail Crazy to think that is even possible... 34 years
There's two scenarios to consider here. If the F-15 would have discovered the Japanese carriers prior to them launching their aircraft it could have easily sank all of them using precision guided munitions. In air to air combat the F-15 would have run out of ordinance well before it ran out of targets.
@@chrisschack9716 Several years ago one of the documentary channels had a "what if?" series where they tested the outcomes of historical events. One was about the attack on Pearl Harbor. They ran 1000 computer scenarios and then ran a series of war games with military historians, retired naval commanders and various other experts. The surprising part is that proportionately speaking the results were closely aligned. Because of the number of attacking aircraft and the very short time they would have had to prepare the outcome of December 7, 1941 would have probably been the same even if they had prior warning. At the end of 1941 the use and affectiveness of naval airpower was still in its infancy so most warships at that time didn't carry much more anti aircraft than was needed to shoot down an enemy spotter plane. Until the development of the proximity fuze U.S. anti aircraft fire wasn't particularly effective anyway. The common belief that if the aircraft based at Pearl and the surrounding airfields could have been launched they could have made a difference. This is wishful thinking. The Japanese fighter cover was the A6M also known as the Zero easily outperformed the P-40 Warhawk and the outdated F-2 Buffalo. The seasoned Japanese pilots would have quickly shot down our inexperienced pilots.
@@williampaylorjr9481 The buffalo wasn't a very capable aircraft, but it would out turn a zero without breaking a sweat. A lot of people regard them as less than a P40, but if you tangled up with a zero your chances of being successful were higher with the buffalo.
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper I didn't know that about the Buffalo. I thought that most of them had been relegated to finish their days as naval trainers by that time. With ruggedness being about the only thing going for it the P40 wouldn't have been able to do much more than delay the inevitable. The precision planning, weapons development, and training is what ultimately brought the U.S. Pacific fleet to it's knees. Is it just my imagination or did the Buffalo resemble the illigitament child of the GeeBee air racer and Howard Hughes H-1 racer? 🤔 Hmmmm
@@williampaylorjr9481 Back when it was being developed, those aircraft basically were the gold standard in aircraft performance, so it makes sense that the designers took their cues from those racers. Also note that the Corsair looks strikingly similar to the H1, just with bent wings more or less.
The real downfall of the F2 was the Navy requirements for additional armor and gear for carrier ops. Pappy Boyington loved flying them pre-Navy configuration, and the Finns had a fantastic kill ratio with them. After they were weighed down with stuff, they lost a good bit of their agility, but could still turn tighter than a Zero. It brings up the whole debate of what's a better doctrine...no armor and weight saving like the Japanese chose, or lots of armor and add more power to make up for it like the US did. Ultimately it was their undoing, but imagine what kind of fighters the US could've made if they were all put on a massive weight loss plan.
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper The Buffalo has the highest K/D ratio of all fighters ever. 32/1 Active in lots of theaters at a time when ther was some parity other than the Zeros 109 and Spit's The Hellcat is 19/1 and it shot down 75% of the entire Navy's Total in WW2.
One of the American Jets is 100/0 but besides that the Buffalo is the leader of the pack
Dropping flares against bullets. Brilliant.
On one hand it's distracting. On the other it's good practice to keep muscle memory for when going up against missiles later.
@@Laerei on one hand. You’re an idiot. They’re not pressurized. Fly above them. End of story. Loser
@@Laereimissiles from what?
@@Jeffcatbuckeye Fighter jets.
RIGHT😂😂 Makes no sense at all by this being a game!😂😂😂
When he said “we got hit.” I heard the line from “The Final Countdown” “Why are we playing with these guys?”. I love that movie.
I love that movie too. As a kid I was always slightly annoyed that they didn't absolutely destroy the Japanese fleet before getting sucked back to modern day lol I guess budgetary constraints and no way to show it without modern CG.
@@Slaphappy1975 it's about the butterfly effect. They made the correct choice
It would be the classic grandfather paradox scenario
@@michaelwallace7972 as a kid i just wanted to see a battle lol
Oh man, that movie was awesome, and just the thought of a Nimitz Class Carrier back in 1941, damn bro, what a thought
That intro sounds like a commercial for Americans who wants to have thier own Amazon delivered F-15Es for home defense 😂
And it worked, where do I place my order
Most peaceful american
is that a thing? im in.
Home defense is no laughing matter, sir 😉
My only question is will it be available on sale during the upcoming Amazon Prime Days
Very reminiscent of The Final Countdown (1980) where a supercarrier travels back in time to the Pearl Harbor attack. Although in the movie they never touched the Japanese fleet.
As a kid when I watched this, I was disappointed as I really wanted to see those f14s make mincemeat out of the japanese fleet.
Absolutely awesome movie. Some of the best footage of the F 14 ever filmed !
I was so upset about the storm returning
@@livenotonevil8279 yeah me too. I was wanting to see those A7s and 6s unleash hell on the imperial fleet ! Lol
Absolutely love that movie!
I think there's a Simpsons episode where something similar to this happens. New aircraft tries to intercept old time fighter planes, and they zoom right past them not able to do anything. This is actually not as easy as I thought. I get it it's a modern airplane but the sheer amount of enemy planes makes it difficult to use modern day weapons systems. Goes to show how badass the WW2 pilots were to fly through flak and dive bomb and hit the target without any guidance systems to speak of.
Similar to the first helicopter vs fighter jet dog fights. The helicopters performed better than expected.
good point!
Ward Carrol made a video about the filming of "The Final Countdown". They had several near-crashes because of the F-14s trying to fly slow enough to interact with the Zeros and look good in the movie...
ua-cam.com/video/nzMiKjzFbOg/v-deo.html
You're referring to the F-15s attempting to intercept the Wright Flyer. "Target too slow to intercept. Suggest we get out and walk."
it was the sideshow Bob episode where he was flying the kitty hawk I think it was and their jets were too fast :) So they got outside and walked just behind it with guns :)ua-cam.com/video/RD77nyoEyug/v-deo.html
There was a movie back in 1979 I believe called The Final Countdown that put an F-14 against 2 Japanese Zeros who were likely scout aircraft. I'm sure most here know about it. It was AWESOME!!!
If you do a UA-cam search the actual Navy F-14 aircrews who were tasked with flying the movie scenarios are interviewed in a video.
The movie was boring. If you are going with that premise, then have the modern aircraft carrier actually engage the Japanese fleet.
@@ZachAttackIsBack So boring that you had to comment.
I still own that Movie. 😉
1980
Another thing you could have tried to do was dive and drag them to lower altitudes so they had to take their time to climb again.
Bonus points if you blast "I am so happy to be finally back at home" over the radio as you do so. (You may know that as "the Trololo song").
The F-15 was designed with the philosophy "Not a pound for air-to-ground." Only decades later did the Air Force admit that with a few changes it would make a top notch medium bomber, and that's what they did with the F-15E. More recently they've developed the F-15EX to turn it into a "bomb truck" or "missile truck" able to rain destruction on air and land.
The plan for the F15EX is to assign 3-7 to either an F22 or F35 as target designation aircraft, with the F15s firing long range missiles or glide bombs onto targets designated by the stealth fighters. That would be a devastating combination
@@rvail136 Fascinating stuff, they've gone and separated the sensors and the missile truck, having the undetected fighters be the eyes for the missile truck, like a forward observer.
If the air force really wanted to get the job done in as ugly and utilitarian a way possible, they'd launch cruise missiles from a transport aircraft.
The USA could replace a huge portion of the military pomp and circumstance weapon systems with air, sea (cargo ship), and ground launched (some big truck, who cares) cruise missiles. Let's say they're a million each now, and made in truely high volume, they could come down to a half milllion.
You could buy a million cruise missiles for $500B. Not really a big deal over several years of the budget.
Who would go to war against a million cruise missiles?
12:34 👀 wtf ?
It speaks volumes about the timeless capabilities of the F-15 that it can be updated to such a degree and remain highly relevant.
I enjoyed you guys joking around as much as the battle! Great Vid.
Top work, Gents. Cap, you guys put so much work into these scenarios, and it really shows!
My father flew f15s for 8 years after his unit transferred to them out of the f4, which he flew in towards the end of Vietnam sometimes doing weasel missions. They were honestly hesitant about all the new tech and didn't think it would work as well as claimed, but one by one after their first flight in it they were immediately converted 😂
Same stories we’ve heard about F-15 pilots switching to F-35, there truly is no comparison to superior technology
@@ultimategotea f 35 2hr mission then 2 days in shop
@@ianjones9498 Yeah well for an Eagle that'd be 3 days, and a Phantom it would be 4.
@@totalnerd5674not true.
@@ultimategotea the EX is a different animal than say an F-15A or even the Strike Eagle. Kind of like comparing the first F16 and the Block 70/72 jets.
As glorious as those machines are, their combined tactics are what separate them from those near peer competitors.
Then there’s the F-22.
Thank you Cap and the Reapers! Always a pleasure to work with you and the team, I need to go start reading F-15E checklists and do some familiarization in the Strike Eagle - cheers!
Pleasure Togington! x
I knew I recognized that voice
@@9HighFlyer9 now you know!
@@grimreapers Togington best ogington?
GR + PilotPhotog = two of my fav channels…well done boys!!
Don´t think I have heard Cap fly a mission in such a professional way! Great intro by the way Tog!
I like the idea of dropping back down to way below the zeros altitude and make them drop back down and then just rinse and repeat till they are all out of fuel.
"Wombat, what happened?" - Cap
"The defense department regrets to inform you that your sons are dead because they were stupid" - Wombat, probably
lol
it is true i was in the back lmao
Great balllllls of fire
When I first saw an F-15C I badly wanted to see them become an element of my country's air force. In the mid 1970's I was an air traffic controller at RAAF Base Amberley when the US was flying one around the air force bases in Australia in a demonstration sales pitch. The Australian government was looking to replace the ageing Dassault Mirage III fighters [which they did with the F/A-18 fighter jets]. McDonnell Douglas were trying to sell their F-15s and had it demonstrate it's capabilities... WOW! What it did was incredible, from a slow almost stall down the length of the runway [relying almost only on the pure power of it's engines with minimal lift to keep it in the air] to having the pilot pull it's stick back and go vertical. I thought for sure that it would crash back into the ground but then the engines went to full power and it just went vertical like a rocket. It was one of the most impressive displays of raw powered capability I've ever seen.
I've never understood why we went with Hornets which were designed for carriers instead of these things. We haven't had carriers for decades.
@@jocogi8 It might be that the armed services seem to go for getting the most 'bang for their buck'. While we may not currently have carriers of our own, this does not mean that we won't in the future, or that we wouldn't exercise with strategic allies who do. Also, there is the cost consideration. We could purchase more of the F/A-18 A's than we could the Eagle, and the maintenance and upkeep was always going to be concomitantly cheaper also. At least, that's my guess and what I'd heard at the time. Which makes sense for any government looking to purchase such an expensive asset. Also, the F-15 was a comparatively new aircraft and was yet to get any 'runs on the board'. History has since shown that it might have been an equally valuable choice, but I suspect we would have still gone with the equally versatile [and cheaper!] option of the Hornets anyway.
Do you think they went with F-18 for Supply and Logistical problem solving choices crossed with fuel load /distance/payload ratios ?
@@Rusty_Gold85 It would seem so... I'm assuming as I was not privy to the decision-making surrounding it's choice. AND, it has certainly proved to be a good choice given it's record and the follow-on ease of acquiring and training on the Super Hornets FA/18-Fs. I just loved the look of the F-15 and the F-111Cs based at Amberley at the time.
@@trig1900RAAF didn't get F-15 for two reasons: one, it was a pure fighter- so you'd have to buy something else to do attack work on top of it- and two, it was too expensive for almost any country to buy.
If you look at foreign Eagle operators back in the day- it was either oil money (Saudi Arabia), a massive economy (Japan), or extreme concentration on the military (Israel).
Hornet let the RAAF buy one cheaper bird to do every mission, even if it wasn't as good in BVR as F-15.
Amazing video, never played a flight sim, but this managed to be engaging and tense.
Grim Reaper: ugh I need a back seater. I’m having to fly the plane and bomb the target.
F-16 Pilot from Desert Storm that dodged 6 SAMs without countermeasures and dropped his bombs successfully on target: Amateur
You used mostly 2D tactics. You can climb and descend faster than the Zeros. If too many get airborne, drop to dive to 7500, take out a carrier and move out of range. Depending on the reaction of the Zero's, climb to 20 and turn in for another run. Also, leave more time between drops to lure fighters away from your drop point to increase odds you won't be engaged.
For the two minute dog fight, you should have climbed to 25 and singled out and picked off stragglers.
I was thinking this myself, boom and zoom under FL100 pulling the Zeke's down towards that altitude before climbing to FL250.
Of course five of these F15s could also come kitted with Harpoons and sink the fleet before they are even seen
Me too, I was yelling at him to dive to 2k draw the zeroes down then shoot back to 20k . It'd take the zeroes another 10 min to get back to 20k.
Can the F-15 long range missiles lock on to zeroes?
@@karlhans6678 I would think so. Those Mitsubishi engines make a lot of heat.
@@karlhans6678 Fox 1s 2s and 3s should have no issue.
Beyond that, a zero has no rwr, so it can't detect radar lock or attempt a notch. It's purely subsonic and has a laughable rate of climb. It has no flares or chaff.
It was never intended to counter a threat that didn't exist until long after it had been outmoded.
Put simply a zero can't beat a modern AAM. The pilot wouldn't even know the missile had been launched, even if he wanted to take evasive is doubtful he would be able to given the speed of the missile, and the speed of his aircraft, his inability to determine when the missile was fired, his lack of missile defense systems. Even a modern ace with all the benefits of knowing exactly how the missile works probably couldn't evade one in a zero.
It wouldn't even be a turkey shoot, turkey are smart and have color vision. It wouldn't be shooting fish in a barrel, speed of light through water.
It would be taking candy from a comatose baby.
***EDIT*** The SINGULAR advantage the zero has is it's comparatively shit rate of climb. The missile is likely to meet it at low altitude, where the atmosphere is far thicker, and the missile would burn a lot of energy off punching through the air. Still don't think the zero has a chance in hell.
One correction.
The Japanese force (KIDO BUTAI) was not split into multiple task forces. All 6 carriers (Carrier Divisions 1, 2, and 5) and their supporting ships were in a single formation. That is what gave KIDO BUTAI the ability to mass, what was for 1941, an unprecedented number of aircraft in a single group.
What was split was the two waves of aircraft, but that was a function of time between each wave, not a split force.
ok weeb.
nah Japan during ww2 is fascinating for the simple fact how did you even manage to make this dumpster fire semi successful before attacking the biggest superpower on the planet, I mean seriously just the state of Pennsylvania produced more steel for planes ships and tanks than all 3 major axis nations and that record starts from when we join, pearl harbor, to the end of the war, they were all fighting well before then and producing, they did not stand a chance and it's funny sometimes just how bad of a setup they had thinking it would beat us.@@johnroscoe2406
what i love is that the USAF is working on revamping the F15 AGAIN and bringing it back for widespread use instead of the insanely expensive F35, and hopefully even replacing some of the F22 systems currently in place
The F35 is a stealth vertical landing machine. The F15 was a beautiful 4th generation fighter, no match with the F35.
great video.Ques - when you dropped the bombs, would diiving down to 10k cause the lock to break? Because though you couldnt yaw left and right or lose the lock, what about in the vertical? if you could rapidly drop - and then raise back to 20k feet - that might have totally thrown off any pursuit curves the zeros had.
Once the zeroes are up to 20k feet why not dive to like 3k. A lot fewer zeroes down there, and if they follow you down then you can climb back up to 20k a lot faster than they can and have a nice clear attack run or two before they get back up to you.
Even in an F-15, diving into the AA threat envelope of that carrier group, especially with it that concentrated (as they mentioned having them all clustered instead of dispersed over many miles as would've been realistic) would've been a meat grinder.
Or just make the last 2 passes at angels 10. You get there faster than they do, and can just extend at speed between passes.
@@tangoprime AA in the early days of WW2 were absolute dog shit (EVERY country/side). Looking at statistics of pre-radar (proxy fuse or guidance) AA, they would not of been able to hit an F-15 just based off of speed alone. Before radar guidance or radar proximity fuses, AA would make 'kill-boxes" that would blanket an area of sky and hope to hit something in the formation. Only once radar made its way into every shot munition (proximity fuses) did AA really start being effective at all for single plane targeting.
12:34 wtf?!
Lol the f15 would be shredded going that low
Finally “The Final Countdown” ending we all wanted 👍🏼
The grunting in his voice during the sharp banking. Those high G menuvers must really take its toll on him.
I would really like to see a flight of spotter aircraft lasing each carrier on different codes while one or two bomb trucks dump out loads of GBUs all set to each of the friendly laser codes. It'd be magnificent to watch a swarm of GBUs flying out and navigating to each of their respective targets.
Really digging the idea of having a brief historical block at the beginning to refresh us on the aircraft in question like this. People may not still know the significance of how the F-15E changed the role of the F-15's mission in air combat, so having a quick rundown of what the F-15E is and has been helps bring the viewers up to speed on why this scenario is being done. Well done, Reapers. Well done.
Thank you for putting this all togethe
My DCS can not simulate this what mods are you using for the WWII items?
What's the point of using the F-15's countermeasures? The Zero doesn't have radar or heat-seeking missiles.
No idea, but I guess it's probably a train-like-you-fight thing. No point trying to fight a habit engrained to defend against peer opponents.
@@SuppressedOfficial But thats the point--aircrews don't train to drop flares unless they are faced with an IR threat. No threat means no flares deployed.
These guys are playing a video game, son. Any similarities between what they have taught themselves to do and what real pilots are trained to do are probably coincidental. You might as well be telling guys in Counterstrike not to constantly switch to the knife.
@@SuppressedOfficial lol so you change the script when your idea doesn't measure up to the facts? You are the one who suggested a "train like you fight" mentality.
Also, even to video game players, you only use IR countermeasures when facing an IR threat. You DO realize that "Video game players" can also use other things, like chaff, to decoy radar guided threats? Why didnt he punch out chaff? Even video game players don't typically "train" to counter a threat that's not actually happening at the moment.
@@jonnycomfort9271 Yes. They are "training" for a video game. That's not the same as "training" for the real thing, and it may not follow the same logic. You can go be daft somewhere else; no one here gives a fuck.
How did the Japanese fleet detect you 30 miles out? No radar, never seen a jet before, All 6 carriers should have been hit without any warning or realization of what just happened.
and at 0400 in the dark. when all the aircraft were being loaded on deck.
The Grim Reapers' reputation precedes them. That's how the IJN knew something was coming for them.
They stacked the deck in favor of the Japanese.
smoke on the horizon, unless the carrier was nuclear powered
In the miniseries documentary Carrier, the chief mechanic complained his F18's were "old and busted". The Eagles started in the 1980s so are they getting old too?
Germany developed a bunker buster manual tracking bomb during wwii. It was pretty late in the war, but they found a cruser to test it on. And it penetrated the deck armor just fine, and all the floors down, and the bottom armor then exploded under the kiel and split the cruiser in two.
The Fritz X one blew a boiler room out of the HMS Warspite but did not sink it.
Must have been an incredible sight to see the three carriers hit during the Battle of Midway.
4 carriers the IJN had.
Noice!
A fellow Murphonian and potato lover!
Not as good as the armoured flight deck RN carriers
@@ivorharden absolutely. US Essex Class has the weakness of an unarmored flight deck.... Franklin and Bunker Hill proved that. Japanese Carriers at Midway .....3....were hit and went up in flames at the same time. In the movies...when they show all three burning....it is awesome...and in real life, for Americans, it must have been sweet revenge for Pearl Harbor.
4 ya dumass
Really impressed that Cap managed to do it on himself. Those AM6 piston engines had superchargers, but the oxygen must've been quite precious for them up there!
Hang on! I know that voice!!!
I freaking LOVE these collabs with Tog.
This one is so awesome! Love your content!
When you sink a carrier (or other ship with helicopters), your scoreboard should also count all the aircraft onboard as lost.
And once you get all the carriers, you’ve essentially killed all of their planes in the sky as well.
@jh2519 exactly, let them run out of fuel. Lol
GIMLI: "That still only counts as one!"
@@jh2519: Right, unless they're in range of a landing strip.
Made me almost go dig up the old MicroProse F-15 game...gods, that was fun and intense back in the day...
I see you do videos like this and it makes me wonder - how would the climactic battle in The Final Countdown have unfolded?
Finally, I can answer the question I am always asked. What would you do if you were transported back in time and also had an f-15??
Roosevelt and the Military industialist complex would have stopped you. They wanted the war to happen. You are thinking like a Patriot. But your govt has been full of Traitors
why dont you re-run the scenario at night, the F-15E's ideal theatre, no zero's to worry about then lol. Be cool to see too
One point to note though. While the F-15 has never lost in air to air combat there have been two lost in combat. Both of them where F-15E lost to ground fire.
After my escapade on to an installation with an A10 Wing EXO, sitting in the A10 cockpit with the APU on and him showing me the Maverick visual targeting system (training no live weapons) and selecting a few targets, I had been at the base flight desk and noticed distinguishing patched on the uniforms of Marines on desk duty.
I told them about my parents' place on a mountain, the flight path, what they did on cloudy days as opposed to sunny, and then got them to break out a topo map where I showed them the property and told them to come closer, that we were an Air Family. (They swore that they were never that low, but when they flew by, by the time I heard them, they had passed over me, and were then below me..)
The word must have gotten out to everyone on the flight path, even the Air Force.
The EA6 did the most spectacular move one day. It was said that the plane was heard for quite a bit longer than the usual 1.5 seconds on approach. It was over the house and descending as usual, but lower, inverted, all flaps and surfaces extended. It was said by the observer (my Dad) that all 4 of the crew were looking down at the property through the top of the canopy and you could see that there was writing on the helmets.
That was an even more epic move than the flight of 3x F15E Strike Eagles out fly by of Seymour Johnson :
- One breaking over the West Ridge 300 yards from me canted over left looking for me to the East, then followed by:
- the second breaking from the trees where I was on the East Ridge canted over Right looking at me as they passed (he was probably 50-60' over me as he passed), then followed by;
- the final third descending down the basin/bowl terrain of the mountain, past the house and clearing the house on the next property by about 50'-60' and both the Pilot and Weapons Officer facing me but looking slightly up as they descended (already below me) waving as they went by.
I was hunting, so they got the 'Forward to Target' salute from the rifle.
Always a thrill looking down at a US Fighter Jet passing you on your property.
Neat place. They could power down, drop 200 ft. and not blast the property as they passed. After 4 seconds of reduced speed descent the terrain drop off gave them over 1000' of altitude in another 2 seconds.
The smell of JP was a brief benefit to the ambiance of the events.
Imagine being on one of those carriers as a plane you have never seen the like of before, one your planes can barely track, let alone successfully engage, starts casually taking out ship after ship with weapons stronger than anything you've ever seen.
Super entertaining video! Just curious why you were releasing chaffs to counter the zero bullets?
Yeah, releasing flares would do nothing.
@@dx1450 It would most definitely confuse the Japanese pilots?
@@dx1450 except help more of them gain a tally
13:26 woah
Because it looked cool
when zero's reach altitude, you should just drop to the deck let them come down to engage. then just power climb back up for your next bombing run, it will be over before they can climb back up.
Don't know if this tactic was mentioned already, but since the Zeroes were so far from any ground base to land, after sinking all carriers, the F-15 should just climb out of range of the Zeroes already aloft and wait for them to run out of fuel. With the carriers gone, the fighters in the air would have no where to go. Save ammo and don't even engage! Watch them fall out of the sky from a safe altitude!
That whole "two groups 100 miles apart" bit would have been a.... wait for it... GAME CHANGER😂😂😂
Also if it were real life instead of a simulation the zeros would have no idea where they were.... they wouldn't have been able to.... wait for it.... ZERO IN ON HIM😂😂😂
Brings back fond memories of Harry Turtledove's WORLDWAR novels, in which aliens with a roughly 21st century level of tech try to invade our planet in the middle of WW2
love those books the mix of real historical people and fictional well combined
one of the "race" pilots realising he just gave Japanese scientist clue about nuclear bombs wishing for a nuke to fall on Hiroshima
but what i understand and gamers cant realise is that this is FICTION
Those have been on my reading list for years now. I’ll have to give ‘‘em a read
14:44
that makes no sense, how could aliens travel to earth with our own tech? we cant even land on mars yet
@@Blox117 they used slower then light and cryo suspension for journey and only brought the tech advanced enough to defeat the level of humans from 12th century as that is what the probes discovered
To lose the zero's temporarily you could have dived and used your afterburners to gain altitude very quickly and have some free time at altitude
yes, but this wasn't discovered until a great time after Pearl Harbor.
@@jemiebridges3197😂
@@jemiebridges3197 the AVG (flying tigers) in China knew about it before Pearl Harbor.
Imagine being those pilots trying to intercept an F-15E. How terrifying would it be to watch your only way to survive blow up while this foo fighter completely ignores entire carrier wings?
Legendary! All skulls on! Great sim, boys! That was tense!😅
Wait.....whaaattt?
Photogamus Maximus and the Grim(y) Reapers are compadres?
Honestly it makes perfect sense and it's a perfect match for us beautiful humans/viewington wooingtons! LOL!
Mr. Tog knows I'm a huge fan of his work and I never miss a GR presentation.
(I've had 5 spinal surgeries in the last 5 years after tumors were removed so I have a LOT of couch time for my YouTubian educational degree.)
Thank you both, as well as ALL the talented GR pilots and programmers, for all you do for the aviation community!
Thank you, Justin! I always enjoy working with the Reapers and it is my joy to make aviation videos - always appreciate your feedback sir, be well and now you know!
I wish you the best health :)
In 1980 two F-14's on patrol were engaged by two Zeros after CVN68 time warped to 1941. The F-14's subsequently shot them down. I saw a documentary movie about the incident. The carrier launched multiple aircraft to attack other assets in the area but the mission was aborted due to a weather anomaly.
It was a movie, it wasn't a documentary movie.
@@ascoop22 is humor lost on you?
@@jmayer29 Not really. We're looking at ascoop, and laughing at him.
@@jmayer29 You think he was humouring calling it a documentary movie? It was 40 years ago so I thought that maybe he just didn't recall the movie properly.
@@widyasantoso4910 That's ok. I've been laughed at before.
My great-grandfather was in the Navy and was stationed at Pearl Harbor when it was attacked in 1941. If something would have happened to him when the attack happened or any time within the War I wouldn't be here seeing this video right now.
Reminds me of a 1980 movie called 'The Final Countdown' starring Kirk Douglas and Martin Sheen. The USS Nimitz encounters an electrical storm vortex at sea and gets transported back in time to 1941 Pearl Harbor.
So if most of the planes took off from the carriers and now have no place to land back on them...I guess they will "land" eventually near Pearl Harbor.
And immediately forced to suicide or end up as PoWs
I think by the time they realized their carriers were sunk they wouldn't have enough fuel to make it back to Pearl Harbor. Then one by one they would have to ditch in the sea drawing the unwanted attention of hideous creatures like giant squid, Rosie O'Donnell and Hillary Clinton and then be eaten, annoyed or lied to to death.
Imagine what that would look like to the IJN. An aircraft that looks like that, flying at that speed, wiping out an entire carrier with one bomb. Fear. Terror. Horror, even..
Much Seppuku in Tokyo when the after action reports starts trickling in...
the devil appeared, got shot at and became a little angry, then a few boats blew up, then disappeared to space
Considering the pilots were already set on sacrificing their lives I doubt they would fear anything.
@@freakazoid4691japanese people are human too ❤
after the first coupe carriers went down, they would have cut and run. knowing they were in a fight they couldn't possibly win, doing anything else would be insane.
Cant wait for the rollout of TR3B. Anyone ever dived next to a new destroyer and took a good long look at the hull? Let me know what you find
this needs to be a movie
My uncle was a native Hawaiian who was 6 years old on 12/7/1941. He watched some of the planes until his mother grabbed him and took him inside.
That’s beautiful - never seen a nose cone shot off before. Cap always delivers!
I wonder how well the radar would work without the nosecone.
@@pahtar7189 current F-15E's would be fine since the old radar package has been replaced with a solid array. aerodynamics would be totally borked though.
@@pahtar7189
I’m blown away that the game actually models things like this. The attention to detail in the game engine and the models I’d stunning.
With the nose cone gone, is the oscillating radar panel mounted on the nose rugged enough to withstand air resistance at 400-500MPH? Wont it tear right off?
(Also, why does the F16 emit flares when the Japanese zeroes have no IR/heat-seeking missiles to fire for the flares to distract?)
With a time of from take off to 20K being probably 10 minutes in the A6M, the F15 would probably have freaked the IJN ships out of their mind.
Something this Sim doesn't take into consideration is the psychological effect seeing a plane that fast, with no prop, afterburners kickin' in, etc. would have on any WWII pilot.
In most cases, they would probably never see it. However, what they could easily hear is the F15 pilot on the radio warning Pearl Harbor, the number of aircraft, ships, locations, etc. By that time the Japanese commanders would be terrified that 100 more aircraft like that would come, that every plane would be airborne, that the ships would be out of the harbor, etc.
I’d love to see a flight of 15’s vs the invasion of Poland 1939
Or a troop of M1 Abrams
A troop of M1 Abrams is still easy target for 150mm artillery with HE... but modern aviation is indeed interesting in this situation )
@@mihailmorozov3456not to mention the Luftwaffe
@@Rodney_1984😮
How about a A10 for Operation Barbarossa, 4Million men and 3,000 tanks, 7,000 artillery pieces, and 2500 Planes.
@@streamofconsciousness5826good god talk about a target rich environment! The forward observer would be having an orgasm.
This reminds me of that one movie the Philadelphia experiment. Where a Nimitz class aircraft carrier goes back in time to Pearl Harbor.
Correct me if I'm wrong - practically, after you waxed three carriers at that range you'd return to base to rearm/refuel? Knowing that most of those Zeros aren't going to fit on the remaining two carriers and will just end up running out of fuel somewhere over the ocean - I assume the range of the F15 is way higher than a carrier-based Zero?
My understanding is that the F15 was used to demonstrate it could take out an ICBM. It would be interesting to see a simulation of the F15 taking out V1 and V2 rockets.
Planes of the time were already able to take out v1s, including the meteor (first uk jet) but propeller ones as well
An F-15 was used to shoot down a satellite in the 1980s. The attack was successful and the program was immediately terminated and the remaining missiles put into storage never to be seen again.
V1's yes V2's they arrive at ballistic speed might get them at take off but you need guided/smart bombs as launchers was mobile and if you have smart/guided a sopworth camel is good enough
@@philiprice7875I imagined a sopwith pilot hand launching a rocket like a paper airplane.
@@Charon-5582 and when rocket motor went off it carbonised the sopwith skin🤪
Flares are not an effective defence against zeroes, which lack radar targeting or heat-seeking missiles. Flares and chaff won't work against aerial machineguns.
for show not to avoid cannon fire
Re-Run the simulation with the Japanese fleet in their original configuration. That should allow for more distances between vessels and let the full air armada come from different positions at different engagement speeds. Love the simulation but would like to see it done with more "historical" accuracy.
If he did that, he'd lose the sim battle.
Since it takes the zeros so long to ascend and descend wouldn’t changing altitudes on each pass be effective?
Liam as WSO was the MVP of that perfect first mission. I can only imagine the commanders of the rest of the IJN fleet as they watched ONE plane get six bomb hits and six kills on their carriers, to say nothing of all the Zero pilots with nowhere to land. =^[.]^=
thank you thank you
Against a "swarm", not a chance in hell that ANY aircraft can single handed prevent an attack.
BUT, the F-15 "Strike Eagle" COULD stop the attack on Pearl Harbor by meeting the following conditions:
1) Carry enough "anti ship missiles" or JDams
2) AND sink/disable the Japanese aircraft carriers BEFORE they reach launch distance.
Fail in EITHER of those two conditions, and the attack could proceed as planned.
But, realistically....... IF the F-15 were to spot and do an initial attack on the Japanese fleet BEFORE they got within launch committed distance, the fact that their attack fleet had been spotted and engaged would have probably caused the commanders to call off the attack out of fear that the US aircraft carriers at Pearl would have been sent out of port to AVOID a possible attack. Which was the main goal to begin with. The fact that the aircraft carriers weren't at Pearl to begin with was a "fortunate mistake" for the Americans, but considered a disappointing "failure" for the Japanese original plans. Which is why they attacked whatever support ships they could, such as battleships, destroyers, frigates and supply ships.
OR, a loadout consisting of two (2) B61-12 gravity bombs, dialed up to 11. Still won't do jack about most of the fighters.
How about flown by competent sim pilots, that helps.
@@LeonAust Given that they are flying one of the most complex weapon systems built by the seat-of-their-pants, they aren't doing too bad! I flew the real deal for 18 years, lol! Only mistake they always make is approaching their target in tight formation. That's one thing we'd never do! Also, if they are playing with the concept of having Mudhens in 1941, why not go all the way? They should have AWACS support directing each aircraft to its target without all the pilot chatter. They could have took out all six carriers and still had weapons left over to deliver to other surface ships. An 'E' also never flies without a pair of Sidewinders for defense.
Triggers memories of Final Countdown. The movie that introduced me as a child to the potential to alternate histories.
What is the point of dropping chaf? Is it to confuse the Zero's heat seeking missles?
In the second battle, put 2 eagles on air defense after they drop their first bombs (and equip them to do it). Of course, flying the mission at night would have pretty much solved everything. The first sign of trouble would be the bombs hitting the carriers.
To a person on one of the Japanese carriers; it would have been like a ghost suddenly and violently destroyed the ship. :-O
@@playgroundchooseryou think there weren't night bomb raids in WWII? you think people on the ground thought they were being hit by ghosts?
you went to public school didnt you?
First bomb hit! Did you see how the zero jerked back and forth? Cant believe the modeling.
Strong 'The Final Countdown' vibes here! Thank you very much for this video! 😃👍
you guys absolutely opened up a new play field here using the engine to illustrate documentaries
one thing that could have made a difference, Once the strike eagle spotted the fleet it could have alerted Pearl Harbor and perhaps given them time to scramble.
Uss ward spotted a midget submarine, opened fire, and sank it in decent enough time that a certain number of interceptors and bombers could have been scrambled, and the ships put on a more suitable war footing (compartments closed up, engines coming up, ammo broken out, damage control measures prepared, etc). It seems fate had a different plan.
scramble what ?? NOTHING, RP TNOTHING would have stood up to the zeros
@@thomasaltizer1949 in the numbers available around the Hawaiian islands, and with enough time to ge worthily numbers up, the P-40s and F4. Wildcat variants would have been more than enough to at least disrupt the attack and quite likely inflict crippling losses. People overestimate the Zero, it had its strengths, yes, but it’s main advantage lay in the crews flying them to their strengths and the Americans underestimating them at first. Once America sat down and crunched science and did analysis, the Zero was seen for what it really was.
The japanese would really have masacred any us fighters. The zeros were best at that time and kido butai was the best ijn unit with many very experienced pilots.
Even at midway the us won with so much luck... planes from enterprise that lost their way found the japanese fleet by accident at the most vunerable time...
and this would have given the IJN pilots more practice in such a target rich environment
Can... Zeroes even achieve those heights? Iirc they didn't have pressurized cabins
Yes, they had O2 bottles.
Imagine launching in a Zero, one of the top tier fighters of the day, then watching helplessly as six of your carriers are destroyed in a matter of minutes by a single mysterious machine that can double your speed and altitude in seconds, then realizing you're now in the middle of the largest ocean on Earth with nowhere safe to land.
With additional roles added there are usually sacrifices. What was sacrificed to created the F-15 strike eagle?
Looks like you just won the Pacific War with a few bombs and a nosecone. Considering the Japanese didn’t really meet the conditions for success in the attack, anyway, at least they still had a fleet at the end. This will have mitigated the damage of Pearl Harbor and immediately concluded any IJN dominance.
Not only that, but probably only a hundred planes even got into the air, so a lot fewer would have been able to do the attack, meaning much less damage to the port and ships. And you know precious few would have bailed out or landed on a Hawaiian island, so Japan would have lost virtually all of their best carrier-qualified pilots.
There is no way a Japanese Zero (or any other warbird for that matter) would be able to even fire on a modern jet as they would never be able to compensate for the speed difference they would be seeing. In this game, the computer doesn't realize that so the AI Zero Pilots stand a much better chance than reality.
The Zero may be able to reach FL20 on paper but with little combat effectiveness at that altitude and zero ability to cope with an F15 that will seem to them like it is teleporting across the sky, here one moment and 20 miles away the next and moving far beyond anything they can comprehend, and moving from target to target before anyone can reposition or intercept.
I was kinda thinking that , I done see a single round touching these things . Just buzzing the ship super sonic would probably be enough for them to turn home before 100 more show up .
Japanese Zero top speed 350, F-15 top speed around 1500+. F-15 would have engaged and been out of sight before the Japanese pilots were even aware. And wasn't Kirk Douglas in this very scenario in the 1980 movie The Final Countdown.
16:45 ✈︎
They will if you try to dogfight them, like they do for fun at the end of the video. If you low your speed to theirs for a one to one fight, I'm afraid the zeros have all the superiority. There's no way a F15 outmaneouvers a zero in that situation.
But there's no need to dogfight... just bomb the carriers and gtfo, they will have nowhere to land.
What the music form the intro, a very nostalgic game has that song and i want to know what it was called. thanks
If you damage the carriers, ALL the japanese planes would then become kamikaze planes.
F-15E replaced the F-111 and both were used for the deep strike role, but I think if the F-111F refitted out with the F-15E avionics' and weapons would have been better aircraft.
They have a longer range, faster, and could carry a larger bomb load than the F-15E.
The F-111 was untouchable in its day.
Really was underestimated by most enthusiasts, the fact that it flew the final missions in dangerous air to ground scenarios in Vietnam, killed more Iraqi tanks than the A10 ever came close to, and flew with the RAAF well into the 2000's putting pressure on enemy countries in Asia with it's enormous range and payload it was a banger! + got a maneuver kill against a enemy Iraqi Mirage F1 which was no joke of a fighter in its day.
100% Agreed!👍
Lol and who doesn't love variable geometry ;)
@@harrisonmagic6305even today it would be hard to stop. Supersonic on the deck gives little reaction time when it's in your window of opportunity to intercept. Even today the terrain following radar would be competitive. Pilots picked direction and speed, radar kept you from hitting trees and powerlines
I think the best way to deal with the Zeros would have been to let them climb and then go low. They would then dive and have to fight there way back up each time. That 10k to 20k range would be party time for the F-15
What game is this, and what platform are you running it on?
Thanks! PS - Very cool!
As a kie growing up in the 70s being intrigued by anything WWII...I remember watching and fascinated by a movie on this same premise where the USS Nimitz goes through a worm hole back to just before December 7 1941.. The Final Countdown was the name of the movie