I think it's realistic to assume a Zero getting hit on deck by a modern missile might prevent the aircraft carrier from further launching aircraft due to deck damage, fires etc.
@@delta5-126 even the japanese damage control could handle one plane exploding on deck, though the debris might take a little bit to remove. I know there's at least some historical precedence to decide how that scenario would pan out.
@@delta5-126ealistically they would just shove it over the side. They wouldn’t have to worry about clearing minor FOD due to not flying jet aircraft. So maybe 15 minutes. If there was extensive deck damage then it may take longer and slow down the future launch rate.
@@Argosh first man made device to break the sound barrier and make a sonic boom was the whip. That “crack” you hear is the breaking of the sound barrier. This is what the other commenter was referring to.
@@Wubbeyman you too obviously were never in the same zipcode as a modern jet fighter taking off on full afterburner. It's not sound anymore. I was in Kleinebrogel in Belgium for a demonstration and an F-16 took off maybe 200m away from me. You don't hear that. It's not sound anymore. It's a physical thing smashing you.
If we're going to be realistic, the USN would have fast attacks deployed in depth to harry Hittokapu bay and would sink any carrier that steamed out of port. But assuming they did make it to attack range, 'game changer' is an understatement, a single SSN would bushwack every carrier in the fleet.
@@domthedonkey69420 Yes, and that had affect on how Japan used its subs. Earlier in the war, Japan doctrine saw their subs as more of a way to deliver supplies, troops, etc. They changed that later on.
The LRASM's are capable of communicating with each other and formulating their own attack strategy. The AI is incredible. They can even single out and differentiate between ship's in the enemy fleet.
@@snowmochi1373 I know some torpedoes can do that, not going to say which because i don't know either but it would stand to reason that if they can get a torpedo to exploit a ship's weak spots they could get a missile to do the same.
26:15 That's actually a bug simulating reality by accident. Those CVs have wooden flight decks, not armored flight decks. A warhead the size of an AMRAAM would probably punch a hole in one, especially if it touched off a fully loaded dive-bomber setting up to launch. The results of that can sink a ship, if you get lucky enough; 1940s warships were wonderfully flammable as a rule, and carriers especially so.
Something loke this happenedvat Midway, one of the 4 carriers was only hit by one bomb, it went straight through the wooden deck, made all of the spilled fuel from refueling ignite and blew up all of the munitions as the planes were mid armament switch, the attack would not have been nearly as successful if the guy in charge of the carriers hadn't been as strictly by the book as he was and if japanese doctrine hadn't decreed that you needed a full strike force to attack
@@yoface2537 IIRC that was Akagi. Kaga also got nailed by a single bomb and basically burned to the waterline before she was put out of her misery by a second bomb.
@@CaptainRhodor I remember hearing in one of the twenty different "WWII in color"s on Netflix that one carrier was hit by 54, one by 3, and another by 1 with the last being hit by too many to count
@@yoface2537 Poor Zuikaku got the absolute snot beaten out of her across several battles before being sunk, so maybe you're thinking of her. Most of the other Japanese carriers went down after one of two well-placed hits. And both Taihou and Shinano were one-tapped by submarines thanks to inexperienced/incompetent commanders
i have a semi regular customer who comes in wearing a cvn-65 uss nimitz hat. i asked him "so where you there on the Nimitz on dec 7th 1941 when she took on the entire imperial japanese navy? His answer was "Yes. Yes I was. I'm in the movie twice as an extra"
Its hard to know whomever is saying the truth online but regardless if you guys actually served . Thank you for your service ! Salute 😊@@crazyeddie1981
I’m an Aegis Fire Controlman who’s familiar with this sort of combat. Here are my notes. “The SM-6s will target the jets.” Probably not. The FCS directors will guide the missiles during their terminal homing phase. “They’ve stopped shooting SM-6s.” Yeah, 6s are EXPENSIVE. You use them when you need them. For a lesser threat level, it makes way more sense to close distance and use SM-2s or let the fly boys handle it with fox 2s 25:03 those guys on the flight deck are too close to the jet, they got SMOKED when the jet took off The sea skimming missiles shot at the carriers are neat to watch, but it is WAY easier to disable a carrier by damaging her flight deck. If you damage the flight deck enough, she can’t launch or recover planes anymore.
18:48 I'm pretty sure the ejecting Japanese pilots have a much larger radar cross section than the F-35. I'd LMAO if an errant AIM-120 locked onto parachuting popcorn
I take it you have seen the movie from 1980, The Final Countdown? This is a modern version of that. I LOVED that movie as a kid. Long story short, a modern carrier gets caught in an electrical storm that sends it back to the morning of December 7th, 1941. Knowing what is about to happen, should they stop the attack? Minor spoiler: Its lovely seeing an F-14 going up against a Zero, but it can't get slow enough!
It's pretty safe to say that everyone involved with GR has seen it since they have re-done the exact scenario of that movie about 4 times now with different layouts and pretty much everyone who is a fan of naval aviation has seen The Final Countdown. It's cheesy like cheddar but you can't help but love it.
Fun mission that went about as I expected when I saw 120Ds would be used this time in huge loadouts per plane. Would the boys (and Violet) have been able to re-arm with anti-ship loadouts had they actually landed on the carrier instead of just respawning? Also wanted to say that it's amazingly cool that someone took the time to simulate the huge billowing clouds of smoke that would occur when a fuel bunker is hit in reality. Just awesome.
Well, rearming would probably involve landing, taxiing the planes below-deck, mounting the weapons, syncing the weapons, taxiing the planes back to the deck, preflight checks, taxiing the planes to the catapults, final checks, and then takeoff
This is by far the most realistic one you have done for how a fight with modern ships vs ww2 type ships would actually go. except for the ai glitches it was pretty accurate. Well done and keep them coming mate
This was exactly as expected, but Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack whilst this video had two Aircraft With A Circular Spinner (AWACS) already airborne and detecting. I think that the Japanese might have a smallest chance if just the ship radar was used until the first Japanese asset was detected, then scrambling the AWACS (from one of the airbases on Guam), along with the US aircraft.
IIRC, the Navy expected the Japanese to attack somewhere in the near future, they just figure the Philippines was the most likely target. As such, I'd expect a modern carrier task force to keep at least one Hawkeye in the air at all times, just to make sure that nothing could get close without being detected.
Some early Arleigh Burke class destroyers still have the Harpoon launch tubes. At about DDG 85 they gain a helicopter hanger and lose the Harpoon launch tubes and the front CIWS.
What would a backfire raid against a modern 2025 spec carrier group look like? Like the one you did last year in the Black Sea where the F-14s tried and failed to stop the raid.
Your point about modern jets vs. WWII is true if the modern jets try to turn fight, but usually if the jet takes the vertical the WWII plane can't keep up
Not just that but you would also have to assume their guns are equal as oppose to modern jets having computer assisted targeting, in reality (combined with as you said a turning fight is not the only option) shooting them down would be no issue for the modern force and would be just barely more sporting than using missiles.
@@CareerKnightrue. In this situation, the modern jet pilots don't need to fill their windshield with the enemy planes to shoot them down. They just crank in the targetting system, send a short burp of 20 mm or 30 mm slugs (maybe just 5 shells per plane would suffice. Most WW2 Japanese planes didn't have much in terms of damage endurance), and rack up kills like this. The whole fleet of 2nd WW planes would be downed within 20 minutes, I guess. Way before they would even get the modern carrier fleet in their eyesight.
A modern carrier attack group has an Attack Submarine in it. A modern sub should be able to attack the Japanese carriers with impunity with modern torpedoes and Tomahawk Cruise Missiles.
Great video! What about a 1980’ Navy with Tomcats, Hornets, Intruders, Phantoms with Iowa class escorts? Or, modern Airforce based out of Hickam? F-22, F-15, Vipers….🤷🏼♂️
The wood decks the US carriers had gave the hangers more head room. The US used that extra head room to hang air frames from the ceiling which almost doubled the carriers carrying capacity. If the choice comes down to more planes or a armored deck I'd go with more planes.
The crew of The Bunker Hill would disagree. They watched bombs that would have penetrate 3 decks bounce off British carriers. And I have never seen a photo of, or read an account of, a plane of any sort hanging from the ceiling of a hanger deck or anywhere else for that matter. Do you have a credible source for this? Also a wooden deck required much more support than an armored deck so the "more head room" statement makes no sense. It would be the exact opposite.
@@tanker335 The planes being stashed in the roof thing is actually historically accurate. Games that show this are Aircraft carrier survival and oddly enough Call of duty Vanguard. But the planes on the roof weren't used for extra planes they were only used for spare parts and repairing other aircraft.
@@ambientlightofdarknesss4245 Games? Storing aircraft on a ceiling isn't practical for one. Retrieving them would be a big job that would negate the space below them. Not to mention the risk to crewmen with having tons of metal hanging over their heads on a ship that could be rocked by explosions at any moment. Spare aircraft deemed out of service were stripped of usable parts and stored in a organized fashion that only the military could achieve. The useless bits went over the side. I've been an avid WW2 enthusiast for almost 50 years and again, not once have I heard of this.
@@tanker335 ua-cam.com/video/yfAAJzKr_y0/v-deo.html 7:17 they stashed up as much aircraft parts up on the carrier roofs for extra storage of spare parts.
False. Some carriers used to the space for spare parts, but never did they hang aircraft from there. The wood decks were used because they were cheap, easy to maintain/repair, and lighter. There were completely different philosophies regarding carrier design, deck construction, and most importantly, damage control. Read some history, I recommend a handful.of books about Midway, they explain the different philosophies quite well because it was those philosophies that helped determine the outcome of the battle.
For fleet battles, you should probably be sending a mix of air-to-air and anti-ship. At least if you're using LRASMs. 2 or 3 flights of A2A followed by a flight of anti-ship. Then repeat the cycle. As the anti-ship missiles are heading in, they get covered by the next set of fighters. If the first wave of LRASMs doesn't destroy the fleet it'll at least be crippled.
Small suggestion, when having Players flying, perhaps have a second carrier for them to launch from. They then have the limit of a carrier for them to have "lives".
This is like if the ending to the movie The Final Countdown was good. It’s about a time traveling US aircraft carrier stationed at Pearl Harbor being brought back to December 6th, 1941.
The Japanese fight to the death tactic during the island hopping campaign was part of a larger strategy to make the US progress as painful as possible, in the hope it would convince the US to negotiate a peace before they reached Japan. Instead, it convinced the US to use atomic bombs to avoid an invasion.
Oh, could we see a redo of the Core game US Carrier Strike Group vs Modern Strike Group? It'd be interesting to see the gap as it widens. Thanks for all the hard work, this stuff is always fascinating.
I'll be honest I'm technically British, even if I Consider myself Welsh before British, but even if as many people pointed out the British armoured carrier deck ended up being scraped in the end, it still meant that per battle they could launch more planes short term which in a battle could mean everything, its short term durability per hit vs reparability
Over the 2022 holidays, I had an opportunity to speak to an elderly Skyhawk pilot. During the conversation, I showed him some of the GR missions that used the Skyhawks. Then we came across the missions to stop the pearl harbor attacks. He thought that the Skyhawks would be successful on this mission. He sighted the speed and ordinance, would allow for a successful mission. 6 to 8 Skyhawks should suffice with no cap. What do the GRs think?
The P-51 was used to model the Type 0 fighter aka A6M (Japanese year 2400) to mimic the maneuverability of the Zero in real life because the original DCS programming equated higher speed with better maneuvering although in reality you have to throttle back to turn tighter. The IJN during WWII would have used flying boats rather than helos. The AIM-54 missile should be repurposed into a multipurpose missile
The concentration of the two battle groups incidentally does act as a defensive improvement for them, since it thickens up their very basic defensive abilities against both missiles and aircraft by putting them in position to assist each other. If the original battle groups had been even 30 miles apart, they would be easier to destroy. Modern PILOTS would know to use the advantages of their aircraft, avoiding low-speed agility fights, favoring slash-and-extend tactics, as well as close support tactics that were developed against the IJN in WWII, such as the Thatch Weave. For pragmatic reasons, they would first concentrate on destroying the enemy fleet assets, then destroying the lower-value, lower threat aircraft, trusting that fleet defensive fire would gut the attackers.
Awsome video, hope you're feeling better cap. Also if there ever is a fix to the gummed up carrier problem, it should have at least a delay to simulate clearing the deck of a downed aircraft. What that time delay would be would be up to you guys of course.
Or 1 A-A group then the A-S group then the 2nd A-A group, although between the ship-borne A-A missiles and the first wave of airborne there might not have been a NEED for the 2nd group of A-A jets.
Having served on a carrier in the gulf I have to say this was very entertaining loved seeing the jolly rogers in action again, although they were still tomcats back then 👍🏻
This is like a "Back to the Future" battle... 😂😂. Reverse it with modern Japanese tech and current fleet via 1940's American battle fleet.. That will be Wow to see too. 😊
There's actually a light novel that has that setting called Nihonkoku Shoukan (Japan Summon) in which modern day japan got transferred into another world where the tech is WW2 level at best. It's interesting seeing how absolutely overpowered modern weaponaries are against those older arsenals.
I love how Cap says the word "massive". He says it so..... Massively.. haha. "Viewers you are going to see a lot of explosions today"... I love this and you were definitely correct hahaha
What would really happen: The modern fleet detects the WW2 fleet hours before the WW2 fleet knows the modern fleet is there. The escorts launch a volley of anti-ship missiles, and every carrier in the WW2 fleet is sunk before they even realize they're in combat.
You guys should try and bring drachinifel into these types of videos. You guys are totally watching his videos. I just know it. All hail king of naval history.
Can you imagine being a pilot in a swarm of other prop planes and just seeing all your buddies get deleted out of nowhere without ever seeing another aircraft
At least some of the Japanese bombers were carrying battleship main armament AP 1000kg+ projectiles converted into bombs. No deck armor in existence could stop those bombs. I learned that from Drachinefel's video about salvaging battleships sunk at Pearl Harbor.
Not only your hard work but DCS has put in some work as well to the core game. I was hearing shit I never have heard before. Passing sounds of engines, strong to fading missile effects, all sorts of ambient sound! ED should put you on the payroll. I would! And I watched the movie Isoroku Yamamoto, the Commander-in-Chief of the Combined Fleet which is the war from the Japanese side on Pearl Harbor Day a few days ago. I can only imagine what the admirals on the flagships would be thinking in this mission. None of their planes left visual range and the "demons" on flaming rockets were everywhere!
I’d imagine the pilots might have thought that it was some kind of insane flak. I don’t think they would have been able to describe the missiles before being killed. Just a wall of explosions and dead zeros.
There is a movie called The Final Countdown where a modern 80s american carrier hits a storm and goes back in time to pearl harbor battle. Some pretty cool scenes of F14s dogfighting japanese zeroes.
this was really cool to watch and thank you for making it, but the reality is a 1980s us carrier would have simply launched an attack at dawn when the Japanese were preparing to launch planes, sank their carriers, flew back rearmed, sank the battle ships and cruisers. a few destroyers might escape. a 90s carrier would have just attacked at 2 am and sank everything at once.
LRASMs will be able to be fired directly from CVN-80 USS Enterprise Ford Class Carrier without jets for stand-off purposes. So in essence, the Enterprise has torpedoes. It is also rumored it will carry ship based direct energy weapons too (phasers).
Absolutely amazing how they just got rolled back. This is practically a blueprint for a much larger-scale modern vs. WW2 fleet wargame me and a bunch of friends are running. We're even fighting over Guam, as well.
Seems like there is a potential (and I'm sure there are good reasons to NOT do this) for code in a long range A2A missile that would look for surface targets as it arcs in for its otherwise meaningless face-plant (or auto-destruct). I guess : (a) it'd need decent A2G radar/sensors and (b) target discrimination techniques. Even tho the code is 'free' as far as weapon-design goes (i.e. more 1s and 0's do not weigh more or occupy more space), the cost of adding good A2G radar is probably prohibitive. So, to quote Miss Emily Litella : "Never Mind"
One thing to think about too is that the US carrier group would be able to send up Growlers to jam the Japanese radar. Their fleet would be completely blind and they'd have no radio coms.
The Official Simba Fan Club think Cap can be a little short as a wingman when he's multitasking, but he's a man with a big heart and the patience of a saint. On behalf of our family to cap, stay resting and get well soon mate!
it's funny to hear one of your computer flyers' call sign "Wardog". I know the REAL Wardog, a 2 star USAF F-16 Driver, Michael Warden, with 2 Iraqi kills during the first Gulf war. Lives in Washington state. He's a good friend.
The second that fleet started getting hit by those Cruise missiles Nagumo would have been like HOLY CRAP we are dead. The American Carriers were designed for massive air groups that could launch massive attacks and sustain them. Brits were designed to take punishment but carried the smaller air group. The Americans made the link in the Coral Sea and Midway carriers had the Armored deck with the massive Air wing.
The closest US carrier was 215 miles west of Hawaii. The Japanese fleet was to the north. The US carrier only gets notified of the attack once the Japanese planes reach Pearl Harbor. To speed things up while keeping realism you could place the fleets closer, but remove some of the fuel to simulate the longer flight. The US ships should gave to maneuver and travel a short distance before being able to engage. I think this would really put the pressure on the time traveling Americans. If they delay then the attack will still kill thousands of Americans. But if they burn into combat they may not have fuel to stick around in the combat zone.
Cap, someone else posted this idea, but I second it and want to try and get it more exposure! I think it would be fun to see the new Aegis system defend Pearl Harbor without the carrier. The humans can either fly F-15/F-16 from the island airfield to replicate the P-40s on Hawaii, or if possible, perhaps they can have fun and man the guns of the ships? I'm not sure if you can control the guns and still allow the missiles to fire per Aegis, or if a player takes control of the ship it also means the missiles stop firing? Also, is it able to simulate the Japanese surprise attack portion where they are all in the air approaching the harbor instead of simulated take off per this video? I think the goal is really just to simulate the attack on the ships, so even if that means the possibility of not seeing the incoming enemy until ~15 to 20 mi out so the SM-2 and ESSM get firing, that would be awesome. I want to see the full missile screen in action almost non-stop until the threat is gone hah. Thank you regardless of what's coming out way!
A carrier strike tactic. Due to LRASMs range it would be interesting to see it launched with CAP flights before and after as opposed to just before. Would also give USA a CAP boost late in game. Would work for China or Russia though as they would be picked of by 260 I'm guessing. Can admirals choose which planes takeoff when?
Viewer request: Ace combat 7 featured the Alicorn Class Submersible Aviation Cruiser. Here's the question: IF such a ship were to exist in real life, could a US task force effectively eliminate it?
as mentioned before America just declared war on Japan with this video. America was at peace until the 1st bullet/ bomb dropped. That being said DCS wise The result would be very different with a delayed response from America. - If you were to run this game I suggest setting it up so the Zeros are already up in the air because PH was a surprise attack. The Americans /humans are not allowed to take off from the carrier until the first Japanese bomb/bullet hits. (so simulate the surprise/human response) It was the element of surprise that made the attack effective. Instead of waiting for them to take off and shoot them in a turkey shoot. Compared to a surprise attack of 450 plane suddenly descending on you. Then the modern 25 may not even stand a chance because they will be taking off into a dog fight straight away.
That was awesome. I wonder if it would have been a little better to do F35 then antiship FA18 to try and destroy ships before they can launch everything
Hi there a simulation should be done with A-10s launching from Hawaii to intercept the Japanese airplanes coming in to Pearl Harbor. No use of fighter aircraft since it’s not fair two different time periods.
have you seen that 80's movie where the Nimitz Carrier travels back to WWII time off Pearl harbor? The Final Countdown. Not the best movie but I like it anyway.
I'd love to see a real Pearl Harbour defence scenario with modern aircraft. I.E. you don't have a carrier fleet and you don't know where the carriers are. You have one 24 jet squadron of land based aircraft but in a change to history, someone actually decides the radar report at 7am is a threat and starts scrambling US aircraft to intercept. How many of the docked ships in Pearl Harbour can you save against the 2 separate waves of Japanese aircraft.
Probably better to save ammo by using sm-6 to suppress air cover and immediately using anti-ship missiles. If you are stuck in the past you would want to preserve weapons.
There is a movie called _The Final Countdown_ about a nimitz class carrier on menuvers in the pacific, thrown back in time to a few days before pearl harbor was attacked. Its from 1980, but f14s vs zeros are nearly as bad as f18s. Its a pretty good movie too. Kinda cheezy, kinda 80s, but still pretty good.
This was beautiful Cap. Please play: "Lonely Island: J*** in my Pants" for my current reaction. This is what I'd expect to happen in this matchup. You're removing the weird bogus results from core DCS because core DCS contains nearly zero modern warfare technology in comparison to modern capabilities. This is one of the most comprehensive and impressive modding successes I've witnessed since I began online multiplayer PC gaming in 1997. Congrats and I can't wait for all of the future videos: you've reset your entire project catalog for re-shoots too!
I think it's realistic to assume a Zero getting hit on deck by a modern missile might prevent the aircraft carrier from further launching aircraft due to deck damage, fires etc.
The decks are also made of wood so.. who want to fly off a road of charcoal?
@@delta5-126 even the japanese damage control could handle one plane exploding on deck, though the debris might take a little bit to remove. I know there's at least some historical precedence to decide how that scenario would pan out.
@@settratheimperishable4093 How would it take for them to clear the flight deck of debris?
@@delta5-126ealistically they would just shove it over the side. They wouldn’t have to worry about clearing minor FOD due to not flying jet aircraft. So maybe 15 minutes.
If there was extensive deck damage then it may take longer and slow down the future launch rate.
@@Darthybuddy Ah ok
Imagine the Japanese crews reactions to a Supersonic fly by... not having ever experienced man-made thunder.
The Japanese never had access to whips?
@@advorak8529 you very obviously were never even in the same postcode as a modern jet fighter taking off on full afterburner.
@@Argosh first man made device to break the sound barrier and make a sonic boom was the whip. That “crack” you hear is the breaking of the sound barrier. This is what the other commenter was referring to.
@@Wubbeyman you too obviously were never in the same zipcode as a modern jet fighter taking off on full afterburner. It's not sound anymore. I was in Kleinebrogel in Belgium for a demonstration and an F-16 took off maybe 200m away from me. You don't hear that. It's not sound anymore. It's a physical thing smashing you.
@@Argosh 🤖
You forgot the attack submarine that usually accompanies every US carrier group. That's a major game changer that cannot be underestimated.
If we're going to be realistic, the USN would have fast attacks deployed in depth to harry Hittokapu bay and would sink any carrier that steamed out of port. But assuming they did make it to attack range, 'game changer' is an understatement, a single SSN would bushwack every carrier in the fleet.
yeah everyone forgets about submarines. American submarines sunk 30% of the Japanese Navy in ww2.
@@domthedonkey69420 Yes, and that had affect on how Japan used its subs. Earlier in the war, Japan doctrine saw their subs as more of a way to deliver supplies, troops, etc. They changed that later on.
They do that deliberately. There would be no war game to work on, hence nothing to entertain and inspire us.
@@hegemonycricket9549 , ah yes, the Type B did have a 100 person crew, didn't it? And a 100m test depth, barely undeath it.
The LRASM's are capable of communicating with each other and formulating their own attack strategy. The AI is incredible. They can even single out and differentiate between ship's in the enemy fleet.
Can’t they also distinguish weaker parts of the ship and strike?
@@snowmochi1373 I know some torpedoes can do that, not going to say which because i don't know either but it would stand to reason that if they can get a torpedo to exploit a ship's weak spots they could get a missile to do the same.
26:15 That's actually a bug simulating reality by accident. Those CVs have wooden flight decks, not armored flight decks. A warhead the size of an AMRAAM would probably punch a hole in one, especially if it touched off a fully loaded dive-bomber setting up to launch. The results of that can sink a ship, if you get lucky enough; 1940s warships were wonderfully flammable as a rule, and carriers especially so.
Crunchy on the outside, Chewy on the inside
Something loke this happenedvat Midway, one of the 4 carriers was only hit by one bomb, it went straight through the wooden deck, made all of the spilled fuel from refueling ignite and blew up all of the munitions as the planes were mid armament switch, the attack would not have been nearly as successful if the guy in charge of the carriers hadn't been as strictly by the book as he was and if japanese doctrine hadn't decreed that you needed a full strike force to attack
@@yoface2537 IIRC that was Akagi. Kaga also got nailed by a single bomb and basically burned to the waterline before she was put out of her misery by a second bomb.
@@CaptainRhodor I remember hearing in one of the twenty different "WWII in color"s on Netflix that one carrier was hit by 54, one by 3, and another by 1 with the last being hit by too many to count
@@yoface2537 Poor Zuikaku got the absolute snot beaten out of her across several battles before being sunk, so maybe you're thinking of her. Most of the other Japanese carriers went down after one of two well-placed hits. And both Taihou and Shinano were one-tapped by submarines thanks to inexperienced/incompetent commanders
The Doppler-shifted piston engine sounds from the missile's PoV are INSANE. eg 11:55 - 12:10
OMG....I thought I was the only one hearing the "LASER" sounds!
LOL!
@@justinmurphy2227
😂 Me too!
27:23 man that ambience sounds nice too.
@@flickingbollocks5542 1 by
@@gabrielgabriel9963
?
i have a semi regular customer who comes in wearing a cvn-65 uss nimitz hat. i asked him "so where you there on the Nimitz on dec 7th 1941 when she took on the entire imperial japanese navy?
His answer was "Yes. Yes I was. I'm in the movie twice as an extra"
CVN-65 was the uss enterprise not Nimitz I should know I served on her and still have my hat. So either your story is a lie or his hat is a lie
Its hard to know whomever is saying the truth online but regardless if you guys actually served . Thank you for your service ! Salute 😊@@crazyeddie1981
CVN-68 was the USS Nimitz
@@crazyeddie1981 or he got the story wrong, details like specific numbers slip memory all the time
@@basketofsnake104 if it's a "regular customer that always wore that hat he would remember what it said
I’m an Aegis Fire Controlman who’s familiar with this sort of combat. Here are my notes.
“The SM-6s will target the jets.”
Probably not. The FCS directors will guide the missiles during their terminal homing phase.
“They’ve stopped shooting SM-6s.”
Yeah, 6s are EXPENSIVE. You use them when you need them. For a lesser threat level, it makes way more sense to close distance and use SM-2s or let the fly boys handle it with fox 2s
25:03 those guys on the flight deck are too close to the jet, they got SMOKED when the jet took off
The sea skimming missiles shot at the carriers are neat to watch, but it is WAY easier to disable a carrier by damaging her flight deck. If you damage the flight deck enough, she can’t launch or recover planes anymore.
This is literally the plot of "The Final Countdown" where the USS Nimitz went back from 1980 to just before Pearl Harbor. Worth watching.
Yeah, but this is the alternate ending where they decided to commit to a full engagement.
I Loved "The Final Countdown" Movie...
The Final Countdown was a better movie than Top Gun in showcasing the Tomcat. Especially with the huge badass Jolly Rogers on the tail fins.
18:48 I'm pretty sure the ejecting Japanese pilots have a much larger radar cross section than the F-35. I'd LMAO if an errant AIM-120 locked onto parachuting popcorn
“Parachuting popcorn” I’m saving this for later use.
Finally! Another redo of a classic. Thank you Cap, this is certainly an early Christmas gift.
A piece of Candy, if you will.
Pleasure
@@grimreapers Please show Japanese carrier fleet vs star wars "assets"
I take it you have seen the movie from 1980, The Final Countdown? This is a modern version of that. I LOVED that movie as a kid. Long story short, a modern carrier gets caught in an electrical storm that sends it back to the morning of December 7th, 1941. Knowing what is about to happen, should they stop the attack? Minor spoiler: Its lovely seeing an F-14 going up against a Zero, but it can't get slow enough!
That was a great film.
I'm now going to see if I can watch it for free somewhere...
@@flickingbollocks5542 it was free on Amazon Prime (if you have that) a few months ago.
It's pretty safe to say that everyone involved with GR has seen it since they have re-done the exact scenario of that movie about 4 times now with different layouts and pretty much everyone who is a fan of naval aviation has seen The Final Countdown. It's cheesy like cheddar but you can't help but love it.
@@exidy-yt Ya never know.....kids these days.....
@@TR-Mead Thanks for the tip👍
Fun mission that went about as I expected when I saw 120Ds would be used this time in huge loadouts per plane. Would the boys (and Violet) have been able to re-arm with anti-ship loadouts had they actually landed on the carrier instead of just respawning? Also wanted to say that it's amazingly cool that someone took the time to simulate the huge billowing clouds of smoke that would occur when a fuel bunker is hit in reality. Just awesome.
Really depends on how fast the USN can rearm and refuel the jets after landing all while launching the next wave of fighters.
Well, rearming would probably involve landing, taxiing the planes below-deck, mounting the weapons, syncing the weapons, taxiing the planes back to the deck, preflight checks, taxiing the planes to the catapults, final checks, and then takeoff
@@blademaster2390 Thank you, but I was talking about a video game, not reality. 😀
This is by far the most realistic one you have done for how a fight with modern ships vs ww2 type ships would actually go. except for the ai glitches it was pretty accurate. Well done and keep them coming mate
This was exactly as expected, but Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack whilst this video had two Aircraft With A Circular Spinner (AWACS) already airborne and detecting. I think that the Japanese might have a smallest chance if just the ship radar was used until the first Japanese asset was detected, then scrambling the AWACS (from one of the airbases on Guam), along with the US aircraft.
*Laugh in modern radar combining with computer and AI technology
IIRC, the Navy expected the Japanese to attack somewhere in the near future, they just figure the Philippines was the most likely target. As such, I'd expect a modern carrier task force to keep at least one Hawkeye in the air at all times, just to make sure that nothing could get close without being detected.
Just here to point out, AWACS does NOT stand for "Aircraft With A Circular Spinner", it stands for "Airborne Warning And Control System".
@@Afr0Thund3r well if you want to pedantic, but I like "Aircraft With A Circular Spinner" better! 😀
@@drtidrow How am I being pedantic?
The most expensive American defense in UA-cam history. Great video and can't wait to see what is next .
Some early Arleigh Burke class destroyers still have the Harpoon launch tubes. At about DDG 85 they gain a helicopter hanger and lose the Harpoon launch tubes and the front CIWS.
What would a backfire raid against a modern 2025 spec carrier group look like? Like the one you did last year in the Black Sea where the F-14s tried and failed to stop the raid.
A replay of Red Storm Rising carrier attack or Sum of All Fears carrier attack with 2025 CSG.
Your point about modern jets vs. WWII is true if the modern jets try to turn fight, but usually if the jet takes the vertical the WWII plane can't keep up
Not just that but you would also have to assume their guns are equal as oppose to modern jets having computer assisted targeting, in reality (combined with as you said a turning fight is not the only option) shooting them down would be no issue for the modern force and would be just barely more sporting than using missiles.
@@CareerKnightrue. In this situation, the modern jet pilots don't need to fill their windshield with the enemy planes to shoot them down. They just crank in the targetting system, send a short burp of 20 mm or 30 mm slugs (maybe just 5 shells per plane would suffice. Most WW2 Japanese planes didn't have much in terms of damage endurance), and rack up kills like this. The whole fleet of 2nd WW planes would be downed within 20 minutes, I guess. Way before they would even get the modern carrier fleet in their eyesight.
A modern carrier attack group has an Attack Submarine in it. A modern sub should be able to attack the Japanese carriers with impunity with modern torpedoes and Tomahawk Cruise Missiles.
No such missile as Tomahawk cruise missile. There's Tomahawk and There's cruise missile. Tomahawk is Navy, cruise missile are AIR Force.
@@mikewheeler3994 the tomahawk is a type of cruise missile you are incorrect the harpoon is also a cruise missile, look at the actual definitions
Great video! What about a 1980’ Navy with Tomcats, Hornets, Intruders, Phantoms with Iowa class escorts? Or, modern Airforce based out of Hickam? F-22, F-15, Vipers….🤷🏼♂️
Others have mentioned it but…….. could anti ship missiles be fired first to destroy the carriers in a first strike and stop the launch of aircraft.
Violet "someone's using a jammer" yeah, we already called that out!! Lol
*Final Countdown begins playing*
The wood decks the US carriers had gave the hangers more head room. The US used that extra head room to hang air frames from the ceiling which almost doubled the carriers carrying capacity. If the choice comes down to more planes or a armored deck I'd go with more planes.
The crew of The Bunker Hill would disagree. They watched bombs that would have penetrate 3 decks bounce off British carriers. And I have never seen a photo of, or read an account of, a plane of any sort hanging from the ceiling of a hanger deck or anywhere else for that matter. Do you have a credible source for this? Also a wooden deck required much more support than an armored deck so the "more head room" statement makes no sense. It would be the exact opposite.
@@tanker335 The planes being stashed in the roof thing is actually historically accurate. Games that show this are Aircraft carrier survival and oddly enough Call of duty Vanguard. But the planes on the roof weren't used for extra planes they were only used for spare parts and repairing other aircraft.
@@ambientlightofdarknesss4245 Games? Storing aircraft on a ceiling isn't practical for one. Retrieving them would be a big job that would negate the space below them. Not to mention the risk to crewmen with having tons of metal hanging over their heads on a ship that could be rocked by explosions at any moment. Spare aircraft deemed out of service were stripped of usable parts and stored in a organized fashion that only the military could achieve. The useless bits went over the side. I've been an avid WW2 enthusiast for almost 50 years and again, not once have I heard of this.
@@tanker335 ua-cam.com/video/yfAAJzKr_y0/v-deo.html
7:17 they stashed up as much aircraft parts up on the carrier roofs for extra storage of spare parts.
False. Some carriers used to the space for spare parts, but never did they hang aircraft from there.
The wood decks were used because they were cheap, easy to maintain/repair, and lighter. There were completely different philosophies regarding carrier design, deck construction, and most importantly, damage control. Read some history, I recommend a handful.of books about Midway, they explain the different philosophies quite well because it was those philosophies that helped determine the outcome of the battle.
This is exactly what I asked for! Thank you Cap!
Japanese thinking "I think we woke up a sleeping giant".
For fleet battles, you should probably be sending a mix of air-to-air and anti-ship. At least if you're using LRASMs. 2 or 3 flights of A2A followed by a flight of anti-ship. Then repeat the cycle. As the anti-ship missiles are heading in, they get covered by the next set of fighters. If the first wave of LRASMs doesn't destroy the fleet it'll at least be crippled.
Small suggestion, when having Players flying, perhaps have a second carrier for them to launch from. They then have the limit of a carrier for them to have "lives".
This is like if the ending to the movie The Final Countdown was good. It’s about a time traveling US aircraft carrier stationed at Pearl Harbor being brought back to December 6th, 1941.
The biggest plot hole here? The USN would do this at night. The IJN would have no idea what was killing them.
Dam, the 2025 group absolutely swamped the Japanese, where the other group struggled.
Can't wait to see more carrier simulations in the future!!
Thank you for all of the hard work. That was super entertaining. I appreciate it. Get well soon.
The Japanese fight to the death tactic during the island hopping campaign was part of a larger strategy to make the US progress as painful as possible, in the hope it would convince the US to negotiate a peace before they reached Japan. Instead, it convinced the US to use atomic bombs to avoid an invasion.
We cut off and bypassed a lot of islands too.
Should try sending the surface strike aircraft earlier, maybe 50/50 mix to see how many aircraft it keeps from even getting airborne.
That’s what I would have done, I would have immediately gone for the crippling blows in terms of ships
Oh, could we see a redo of the Core game US Carrier Strike Group vs Modern Strike Group? It'd be interesting to see the gap as it widens.
Thanks for all the hard work, this stuff is always fascinating.
Loved it. What I didn't love? Cannonball turning southwest and shooting down OUR MISSILES!
Conehead!
Should check him, maybe he has some LYB friends and needs to be put in a camp for the duration...
@@BoraHorzaGobuchul lol
I'll be honest I'm technically British, even if I Consider myself Welsh before British, but even if as many people pointed out the British armoured carrier deck ended up being scraped in the end, it still meant that per battle they could launch more planes short term which in a battle could mean everything, its short term durability per hit vs reparability
Over the 2022 holidays, I had an opportunity to speak to an elderly Skyhawk pilot. During the conversation, I showed him some of the GR missions that used the Skyhawks. Then we came across the missions to stop the pearl harbor attacks. He thought that the Skyhawks would be successful on this mission. He sighted the speed and ordinance, would allow for a successful mission. 6 to 8 Skyhawks should suffice with no cap. What do the GRs think?
That was amazingly put together and amazingly fun! Thank you very much!
Excellent scenario - probably your best yet, thanks for all the hard work.
Great work Cap and the team. Very enjoyable if predictable outcome given the updates.
The P-51 was used to model the Type 0 fighter aka A6M (Japanese year 2400) to mimic the maneuverability of the Zero in real life because the original DCS programming equated higher speed with better maneuvering although in reality you have to throttle back to turn tighter. The IJN during WWII would have used flying boats rather than helos. The AIM-54 missile should be repurposed into a multipurpose missile
CAP & Crew... Thank you for the hard work setting this up. Awesome entertainment, and education, for us Newbies! 🙂 (Hope you feel better soon, Cap!)
The concentration of the two battle groups incidentally does act as a defensive improvement for them, since it thickens up their very basic defensive abilities against both missiles and aircraft by putting them in position to assist each other. If the original battle groups had been even 30 miles apart, they would be easier to destroy.
Modern PILOTS would know to use the advantages of their aircraft, avoiding low-speed agility fights, favoring slash-and-extend tactics, as well as close support tactics that were developed against the IJN in WWII, such as the Thatch Weave. For pragmatic reasons, they would first concentrate on destroying the enemy fleet assets, then destroying the lower-value, lower threat aircraft, trusting that fleet defensive fire would gut the attackers.
Awsome video, hope you're feeling better cap.
Also if there ever is a fix to the gummed up carrier problem, it should have at least a delay to simulate clearing the deck of a downed aircraft. What that time delay would be would be up to you guys of course.
Be interesting to see what would have happened of the anti-ship bogs took off first.
Or 1 A-A group then the A-S group then the 2nd A-A group, although between the ship-borne A-A missiles and the first wave of airborne there might not have been a NEED for the 2nd group of A-A jets.
@@michiganengineer8621 yeah. Just would be good to get the AS up as soon as possible. Don't need AA if no aircraft have been able to take off.
That guy sounds like Jingles from World of Tanks
Most distinctive British voice
:)
@@conservativedemocracyenjoyerI know right?!
Everytime I wake up and Grim Reapers has a notification, turns out to be a beautiful day!
The A10 ceiling is 45.000 feet
What if your human fliers had the LRASMs while AI took care of air-to-air?
Scenario would have probably been over quite quickly!
Having served on a carrier in the gulf I have to say this was very entertaining loved seeing the jolly rogers in action again, although they were still tomcats back then 👍🏻
This is like a "Back to the Future" battle... 😂😂.
Reverse it with modern Japanese tech and current fleet via 1940's American battle fleet..
That will be Wow to see too. 😊
There's actually a light novel that has that setting called Nihonkoku Shoukan (Japan Summon) in which modern day japan got transferred into another world where the tech is WW2 level at best. It's interesting seeing how absolutely overpowered modern weaponaries are against those older arsenals.
I love how Cap says the word "massive". He says it so..... Massively.. haha.
"Viewers you are going to see a lot of explosions today"... I love this and you were definitely correct hahaha
American carriers had wooden flight decks to reduce weight high above the waterline. This made the ships more stable in rough seas.
Compare to British CVs which were heavily armored. The US CVs were rarely within (credible) land-based attack range. The Brits always were.
What would really happen: The modern fleet detects the WW2 fleet hours before the WW2 fleet knows the modern fleet is there. The escorts launch a volley of anti-ship missiles, and every carrier in the WW2 fleet is sunk before they even realize they're in combat.
It’s a great day! “Serial killer loadout”. I like it!
Impressive work Cap, thanks! Good work GR :)
You guys should try and bring drachinifel into these types of videos. You guys are totally watching his videos. I just know it.
All hail king of naval history.
Loved it! Nice new A6M model.
Can you imagine being a pilot in a swarm of other prop planes and just seeing all your buddies get deleted out of nowhere without ever seeing another aircraft
At least some of the Japanese bombers were carrying battleship main armament AP 1000kg+ projectiles converted into bombs. No deck armor in existence could stop those bombs. I learned that from Drachinefel's video about salvaging battleships sunk at Pearl Harbor.
That is a fantastic series. We all know more or less about the attack, but the effort expended to restore the harbor is epic.
Imagine naval A-10s with anti ship missiles or aerial torpedos. Modern ships don't have armour so that gun would be brutal if used against them.
Some 340 aircraft were shot out of the sky in the Turkey Shoot, Ozawa's carrier fleet was essentially eviscerated in that clash
Not only your hard work but DCS has put in some work as well to the core game. I was hearing shit I never have heard before. Passing sounds of engines, strong to fading missile effects, all sorts of ambient sound! ED should put you on the payroll. I would! And I watched the movie Isoroku Yamamoto, the Commander-in-Chief of the Combined Fleet which is the war from the Japanese side on Pearl Harbor Day a few days ago. I can only imagine what the admirals on the flagships would be thinking in this mission. None of their planes left visual range and the "demons" on flaming rockets were everywhere!
I’d imagine the pilots might have thought that it was some kind of insane flak. I don’t think they would have been able to describe the missiles before being killed. Just a wall of explosions and dead zeros.
My guess on what they would think: "Okay, this was a bad idea..."
There is a movie called The Final Countdown where a modern 80s american carrier hits a storm and goes back in time to pearl harbor battle. Some pretty cool scenes of F14s dogfighting japanese zeroes.
Wow you read my mind this was exactly the war game I was thinking of you trying with the new weapon your team is developing, great job as always.
this was really cool to watch and thank you for making it, but the reality is a 1980s us carrier would have simply launched an attack at dawn when the Japanese were preparing to launch planes, sank their carriers, flew back rearmed, sank the battle ships and cruisers. a few destroyers might escape. a 90s carrier would have just attacked at 2 am and sank everything at once.
The LRASM looks a lot like the Federation's photon torpedo (Star Trek)
LRASMs will be able to be fired directly from CVN-80 USS Enterprise Ford Class Carrier without jets for stand-off purposes. So in essence, the Enterprise has torpedoes. It is also rumored it will carry ship based direct energy weapons too (phasers).
Reminds me of "The Final Countdown" a film about a US Carrier getting caught in a time warp and emerging before Pearl Harbor.
Absolutely amazing how they just got rolled back. This is practically a blueprint for a much larger-scale modern vs. WW2 fleet wargame me and a bunch of friends are running. We're even fighting over Guam, as well.
Did that F18 shoot itself down at 41:10
yes lol
Seems like there is a potential (and I'm sure there are good reasons to NOT do this) for code in a long range A2A missile that would look for surface targets as it arcs in for its otherwise meaningless face-plant (or auto-destruct).
I guess : (a) it'd need decent A2G radar/sensors and (b) target discrimination techniques.
Even tho the code is 'free' as far as weapon-design goes (i.e. more 1s and 0's do not weigh more or occupy more space), the cost of adding good A2G radar is probably prohibitive.
So, to quote Miss Emily Litella : "Never Mind"
One thing to think about too is that the US carrier group would be able to send up Growlers to jam the Japanese radar. Their fleet would be completely blind and they'd have no radio coms.
Modern Japanese Navy against 1942 US Navy @ Midway
The Official Simba Fan Club think Cap can be a little short as a wingman when he's multitasking, but he's a man with a big heart and the patience of a saint. On behalf of our family to cap, stay resting and get well soon mate!
it's funny to hear one of your computer flyers' call sign "Wardog". I know the REAL Wardog, a 2 star USAF F-16 Driver, Michael Warden, with 2 Iraqi kills during the first Gulf war. Lives in Washington state. He's a good friend.
If a plane gets destroyed on the deck of a carrier in real life it will gum up the operations too.
The second that fleet started getting hit by those Cruise missiles Nagumo would have been like HOLY CRAP we are dead. The American Carriers were designed for massive air groups that could launch massive attacks and sustain them. Brits were designed to take punishment but carried the smaller air group. The Americans made the link in the Coral Sea and Midway carriers had the Armored deck with the massive Air wing.
The closest US carrier was 215 miles west of Hawaii. The Japanese fleet was to the north. The US carrier only gets notified of the attack once the Japanese planes reach Pearl Harbor. To speed things up while keeping realism you could place the fleets closer, but remove some of the fuel to simulate the longer flight. The US ships should gave to maneuver and travel a short distance before being able to engage. I think this would really put the pressure on the time traveling Americans. If they delay then the attack will still kill thousands of Americans. But if they burn into combat they may not have fuel to stick around in the combat zone.
Cap, someone else posted this idea, but I second it and want to try and get it more exposure!
I think it would be fun to see the new Aegis system defend Pearl Harbor without the carrier. The humans can either fly F-15/F-16 from the island airfield to replicate the P-40s on Hawaii, or if possible, perhaps they can have fun and man the guns of the ships? I'm not sure if you can control the guns and still allow the missiles to fire per Aegis, or if a player takes control of the ship it also means the missiles stop firing?
Also, is it able to simulate the Japanese surprise attack portion where they are all in the air approaching the harbor instead of simulated take off per this video?
I think the goal is really just to simulate the attack on the ships, so even if that means the possibility of not seeing the incoming enemy until ~15 to 20 mi out so the SM-2 and ESSM get firing, that would be awesome. I want to see the full missile screen in action almost non-stop until the threat is gone hah. Thank you regardless of what's coming out way!
Hope you feel better Cap! We need you 😃
Final Countdown (1980): "We're going to intercept and destroy the Imperial Japanese Fleet."
Grim Reapers: "Hold my beer..."
A carrier strike tactic. Due to LRASMs range it would be interesting to see it launched with CAP flights before and after as opposed to just before. Would also give USA a CAP boost late in game. Would work for China or Russia though as they would be picked of by 260 I'm guessing. Can admirals choose which planes takeoff when?
Congrats GR for getting a lot of bugs out and making such a great battle.
Viewer request: Ace combat 7 featured the Alicorn Class Submersible Aviation Cruiser. Here's the question: IF such a ship were to exist in real life, could a US task force effectively eliminate it?
as mentioned before America just declared war on Japan with this video. America was at peace until the 1st bullet/ bomb dropped. That being said DCS wise The result would be very different with a delayed response from America. - If you were to run this game I suggest setting it up so the Zeros are already up in the air because PH was a surprise attack. The Americans /humans are not allowed to take off from the carrier until the first Japanese bomb/bullet hits. (so simulate the surprise/human response)
It was the element of surprise that made the attack effective. Instead of waiting for them to take off and shoot them in a turkey shoot. Compared to a surprise attack of 450 plane suddenly descending on you. Then the modern 25 may not even stand a chance because they will be taking off into a dog fight straight away.
The Zero might be the most classic plane ever. Just gorgeous.
That was awesome. I wonder if it would have been a little better to do F35 then antiship FA18 to try and destroy ships before they can launch everything
Hi there a simulation should be done with A-10s launching from Hawaii to intercept the Japanese airplanes coming in to Pearl Harbor. No use of fighter aircraft since it’s not fair two different time periods.
have you seen that 80's movie where the Nimitz Carrier travels back to WWII time off Pearl harbor? The Final Countdown. Not the best movie but I like it anyway.
I'd love to see a real Pearl Harbour defence scenario with modern aircraft. I.E. you don't have a carrier fleet and you don't know where the carriers are. You have one 24 jet squadron of land based aircraft but in a change to history, someone actually decides the radar report at 7am is a threat and starts scrambling US aircraft to intercept. How many of the docked ships in Pearl Harbour can you save against the 2 separate waves of Japanese aircraft.
don't forget! Nagumo was in command of Pearl attack fleet. they would have left as soon as their fighters were destroyed.
I've been waiting for this ever since I saw The Final Countdown
Cap though always giving us what we ask for!
And what we didn't even know we were gonna ask for, but needed to, you know?
He knew....
(Words....LOL)
Probably better to save ammo by using sm-6 to suppress air cover and immediately using anti-ship missiles. If you are stuck in the past you would want to preserve weapons.
This would be a million times better as a cinematic
There is a movie called _The Final Countdown_ about a nimitz class carrier on menuvers in the pacific, thrown back in time to a few days before pearl harbor was attacked. Its from 1980, but f14s vs zeros are nearly as bad as f18s.
Its a pretty good movie too. Kinda cheezy, kinda 80s, but still pretty good.
This was beautiful Cap. Please play: "Lonely Island: J*** in my Pants" for my current reaction. This is what I'd expect to happen in this matchup. You're removing the weird bogus results from core DCS because core DCS contains nearly zero modern warfare technology in comparison to modern capabilities. This is one of the most comprehensive and impressive modding successes I've witnessed since I began online multiplayer PC gaming in 1997. Congrats and I can't wait for all of the future videos: you've reset your entire project catalog for re-shoots too!
Get well bro! - thank you that was outstanding.