IMPORTANT NOTE: I was trying to remember the image of a woman holding her hair and standing on a shell as I thought it looked very similar BUT I COULD NOT FIND IT.. Because I was searching for Aphrodite :') That is because it was, as the BRILLIANT jfalk6500 pointed out in the comments, VENUS! The "Roman goddess whose functions encompass love, beauty, desire, sex, fertility, prosperity, and victory" :D AND MY GOODNESS the image is so similar. ============================================================================================= I do believe this may be the first time this image has been discovered, and most assuredly is the closest thing available to a depiction of the Gloam Eyed Queen! Thankyou for taking the time to watch my video, I hope it was worth your while! There are some real big projects coming! PS Apologies if the music is at all clashing with the sound. I uploaded and got copyright struck which is kind of weird because it was Tchaikovsky lmao
This really just confirms in my eyes the suspicion I and many others have that Marika herself is in fact the Gloam Eyed Queen. it is the only conclusion I can find that makes sense to all her connections in the game.
Regarding background music the best type to use to avoid copyright strikes is video game OST pieces. Most gaming companies sans Nintendo forgo claiming that music to encourage Let's Play content. Otherwise every LP would be flagged.
Wouldn't say your the first to discover this, I had already seen this floating around in a one of the lore discords I frequented 5 months ago. Might be new for a lot of people though.
That's exactly what it is. It was confirmed as such by Miyazaki way back during the early days of the base game when he was asked about George RR Martin's contribution. Miyazaki said George wrote the world history after they had a series of fruitful discussions on a wide variety of topics. When Miyazaki departed from their final meeting, he thought he knew roughly the shape of what George would set about writing. What he eventually got was not at all what he expected however. Because while George did create a world that hit all the beats Miyazaki has requested, it was framed through the lens of a single family's rise and eventual ruin. While initially disappointed with what he got, once he set his preconceived expectations aside, he came to embrace the story he got, and went all in on the "shattered family" angle. Honestly I'm not sure what Miyazaki was expecting, George loves 3 things: world building, "the human heart in conflict with itself," and weird sex stuff. And we got all 3 in spades with Elden Ring. I do find it funny that whole George was likely the one who gave us Dragon-fucker Vyke, it was very likely Miyazaki who gave us the Miquellester the Brother-Bride.
@@Coast2CoastFlyin The sad thing is Messmer for all that's he's a complete monster and possessed by a primordial predator is the most stable and relatable one with Radahn a diseased wreck or empty shell. His plight as an abandoned and neglected child desperate for a heartless mother's love is unfortunately a very relatable condition for many people.
The problem with Gloam eyed Queen being Messmer's Mother, is how did she had a son with Radagon? because Radagon's motiff in Messmer's OST, Red Hair, etc makes it OBVIOUS that Radagon was his Father.
Perhaps Marika, as Radagon, seduced the Gloam Eyed Queen, and Mesmer and Melina might truly be both their children. Isn’t there a line about seduction in the DLC trailer?
This is an old write-up now, with some recent updates from the DLC. Marika is the Gloam/Dusk-Eyed Queen. - Red and black spike of death impales Marika and keeps her in place when we find her at the end. Only Maliketh wields this power, and only he could even defeat a God like Marika. But he's so loyal to her, why would he? - Maliketh "defeated" the Gloam/Dusk-Eyed Queen. We know Shadowbound hounds have to attack their former master if The Fingers feel like the Empyrean is acting against them. We play through this reality with Ranni's quest, and both she and Iji know Blaidd will go mad as she enacts her vision. How do they know this happens? They saw/heard of it happening to Maliketh and Marika already. - Only Marika would be able to guide Ranni to the location of the Rune of Death and how to use it for it to be stolen in the first place to forge the Black Knives. Remember, "Marika... is this what it is to sin?" "Why gull me..." Marika, after all, had only one use for Maliketh in the end, after the other work was done... a vessel to seal away Destined Death. And even then, she betrayed him. - The Beast Eye is a purple, scratched up eye. It's Marika's eye from being defeated and imprisoned by her Shadowbound. No other Queen or Empyrean is "defeated" but not slain, as the text implies there except Marika. And who but her purpose-made hound could even stop her, a God? The one entity empowered enough by the Ring/Fingers to be able to do so should the need arise. - Dominula Village is much like the Hinterlands and the Shaman Village. We find a skinning ritual and a Godskin Apostle there in Dominula. We learn that the "festival" is old and tacitly accepted by the Golden Order. The aesthetic of these villages is much the same, and they're intimately tied to Marika herself. - Gideon gives us a boon in the form of a secret rite known only to him, Black Flame Protection. He is alleged to have peered into the will of Queen Marika, and shuddered at the end that should not be. - The Scadutree is of a dual nature. So is Queen Marika. When Gold arose, so too was Shadow born. Gold and Shadow exist as necessary contrasts to each other, yet in a God, in Marika, this duality exists in coalesce, or it did once. - No other characters are named as Queen or Empyrean that aren't already accounted for/ruled out to be the GEQ, and by that I mean Melina, she was given purpose by her mother at the foot of the Erdtree and that means she is a daughter of Marika, not old enough to be the GEQ but possesses traits of both Marika and Radagon. Eye color and hair color are passed down traits we see in game. Well, sure enough, Melina shows us a purple/gloamy eye in one ending. Inherited trait from her mother, the Queen in Black. Marika's eyes are never shown to us, to judge their color. - Duskborn ending sees Godwyn rise to ascendancy and sees Death restored, with him as the Prince of Death itself. These titles aren't meaningless. Duskborn? The "Prince" of Death? Well, who would the Queen be? If Godwyn is Duskborn, and if he is a Prince, his mother would, of course, be associated with "Dusk" and be a Queen. And we know his mother is Queen Marika. - Fia is hooded with a black cloak and comes from some other land. She also helps create Godwyn's Duskborn ending and is Death-aligned. We see Marika wearing black hooded garb in a statue where she also is holding the twins Miquella and Malenia. Her tattered clothing as we find her at the end is also black. She is also associated with the Nox/Numen race and the Black Knife Assassins that come from there as well. - Statues of Marika in her crucified pose all show her with a flowing black cloth that wraps behind her in almost the exact same shape as the Godslayer Greatsword, which was the weapon or ritual sword of the GEQ/DEQ. You have to pivot the camera a bit to get a good view, but the shape is very similar. Coiled and then open, with one flap slightly longer than the other, same tip design on the Godslayer Greatsword. It's possible that she was propped up by the Hornsent culture and then part of the betrayal was killing other Gods in their pantheon, but what's maybe more possible is as Centered Tarnished pointed out, that Marika culled some other of her "unwanted" children after learning the truth of the broken Fingers and flawed foundations of her Order. - Godwyn is referred to as the "Prince of Gold" in an item description. If a Prince of Death could have been a Prince of Gold, why couldn't his mother hold this potential as well, even necessarily so? We see from the Death Knights that Gold and Death can somehow synergize even still... Gold and Shadow, born at the same time, same as it ever was. - Hewg prays to Queen Marika about his given task to craft a Godslaying weapon. Very interesting and specific task. Marika wants a God slain. He mentions "the sheer terror of Her..." regarding Marika. Godskins certainly take an interest in killing a God. Who was their leader? A "defeated" Queen who was once an Empyrean. Marika. - Raging Wolf Vargram is a would-be Shadow. Wolf imagery is on his armor. He wields the Godslayer Greatsword. The weapon art is "The Queen's Black Flame", of course. A statue of Marika exists in Farum Azula showing her with three wolves. - Marika learned the secrets of the Golden Order and realized her children would "amount only to sacrifices" as she instructed them. She knew the Erdtree was a soul parasite, and by sealing Death away, she weakened the Erdtree over time. She also had Godwyn buried at the roots of it, knowing that he would grow and overtake them, choking the Erdtree further. As he was, Godwyn was an "unwanted" child since he embodied the Golden Order, and she was a prisoner to it. He would end up much like Miquella would, a caged divinity of some kind. She was likely opposed to the Erdtree and Greater Will/Fingers for a long time, weaving plots in secret until the Shattering. She realized, only too late, that ultimate power has a way of becoming a curse when the truth of the nature of it all is finally revealed. Just as Marika shined so brightly with her Golden Order, another aspect of her was as deep as the abyss and as dark as any shadow.
I’ve noticed a while back that Maliketh has a similar moveset to the Godskins. His “Destined Death” attack is very similar to how the Godskin Apostles wind and contort their bodies to channel the power of their black flames.
I had already come to these same conclusions as well and another thing to support your eye point, both of radagons eyes are removed and are talismans, whereas only one of marikas is wearable as a talisman, it is heavily implied that the beast eye is the missing eye of marika torn out by gurranq (Maliketh).
I always found it odd that the Godskin Swaddling Cloth of all things is a talisman that restores hp after dealing damage, the exact opposite of the Black Flame which continuously drains hp after the first hit
I believe the GEQ is meant to be a physical depiction of "death," which is why the golden order was created upon her defeat and the confining of the rune of death. Perhaps the black flame became stronger with the death of the gods which, in turn, made the godskins more powerful. And notably, if they are skinning these gods and keeping their intact godskin after, a flame would make this impossible - implying that the blackflame drains the very soul from their opponent, instead of merely burning them.
i came here to inform you that this life stealing black flame and swaddling cloth hp giving effect is supposed to mimic the serpentine rules of the volcano manor where you devour to gain, stealing the life essence from the other
but the swaddling cloth is specifically a gift of life which is the opposite of a serpentine demeanor, the act of birthing the apostles was the opposite of greed and was a thing of selflessness reminiscent of breastfeeding a baby
Maybe, instead of being siblings, the Geq was once part of Marika, just like st. trina was part of miquella. basically after she ascended as god, marika was the gloam eyed queen and the gods she killed were the hornsent gods. once she decided to remove death from the elden ring and found her golden order, she discarded this other side of her, the Gloam eyed queen, and battled her, removing her rune and founding the golden order, marrying godfrey, etc.
@@BlueNorth313 What if it is simpler than that? What if the GEQ is not another side of her or anything, but just golder order propaganda rewriting history? Basically, the side of Marika that shouldn't be seen or remembered. The Marika who killed and burned the hornsent civilization, who exterminated gods, etc. Basically to make Marika's hands seem clear, the golden order created this fake other evil queen that was defeated by the good queen Marika, when in reality it was just Marika "changing her policy" abandoning and hiding her old ways (similar to how she hid her whole crusade against the hornsent), kinda like Houra Loux became Godfrey and now the 2 are known as different people.
I find it interesting how there are never two godskin nobles or apostles present in the same place and how the FA boss name is called "duo" as duo means there are only two which suggests the godskins we fight are the same lean and fat guy, perhaps the only surviving ones. And this is interesting because the godskins are godslayers like the true purpose of the Tarnished and they also respawn like the Tarnished. Also, the windmill village is inhabited by only women like the shaman village was, they have Marika's hairstyle with one missing braid, Marika's elden rune decorated with flowers all over Dominula, they're skinners like the godskins and their weapons are made of bones which net more runes from landing attacks like the festive grease exclusive to the DLC is with an icon that is reminiscent of the shaman village. And there is also iris of grace and occultation. The godskins clearly have grace as their eyes are golden and Marika controlled this blessing. But if she had occultation irises at some point then maybe she was known as the Gloam-Eyed Queen.
The woman on the Peeler bears similarity to the woman found throughout Farum Azula, though the Farum Azula woman also bears an explicit crown. A byzantine style crown that matches to the giant woman statues found within Rauh. All three of these depictions are the Gloameyed Queen. The former Queen (god) who bore the Elden Ring, whose Elden Lord was Placidusax. (This is also reinforced by the Godskin duo being found in the Dragon Temple of Farum Azula and that there's verdigris on/in the walls of Farum Azula... Not to mention the identical architecture to Enir Elim.)
Marika's Rune is called the Rune of Life in 1.00. In alignment with her ideological dispensation it makes sense for her to b a twin or sibling to the Rune of Death's Gloam Eyed Queen. Kinda like Mohg and Morgott, Malenia/Miquella, possibly Radahn/Rykard( pure speculation here)
You weren't kidding. Excellent finds in this video and you've really done some phenomenal texture work. My theory that Marika used Radagon to commit the betrayal/seduction of the GEQ now holds more disturbing, classical GRRM weight than it did before. I think the Dominula connection is really interesting, as the festive grease tells us the festival is so old that even the Golden Order tacitly allows its continued practice. Is this because they share motifs with shaman village, or because this was a practice the GEQ had created and Marika felt guilt over her past betrayal and decided to overlook it? I feel like the final connection is strengthening the links between the Nox and GEQ which your prior grandmother's video already set roots for. Hyped!!!
6:43 Could it be that both Messmer and Melina are the children of the Gloam-eyed Queen and *Radagon*? That would explain why they both have red (or strawberry blonde, in Melina's case) hair and also would provide a convenient explanation for who their father is (assuming that the GEQ can't give birth to demigods by herself).
I had a theory that Marika was the GEQ before she achieved Godhood, but with SoTE I’m now of the belief that Melina actually was the GEQ before she became “burned and bodiless”; she’s the one Malekith defeated. She was an empyrean, made a play for power, burned the Great Tree (causing the first blanket of ash over Leyndell and giving rise to the Golden Seeds), got smacked down for it and then “reborn” by Marika much later when she was crucified.
My theory is that empyreons are just 2 beings in 1 body. Melina would be an empyrean with the gloam eyed queen implanted in her. Miquella+makenia accidently got implanted with outergods (rot for malenia, possibly formless mother for miquella) Marika was implanted with Radagon. Even some other kids have this 2 beings 1 body. Rykard has the snake eigley Godwyn has some death blight fish/dragon thing Mesmer has the fire + snake Mogh + Morgott have the omen Ranni has 4 arms, and a soul not fully bound to a doll. possibly the snow witch.
The funny thing is I'm the exact opposite now 😂. I held onto your current theory for like 2 years until recently. Now I think Melina is more of a vessel for the GEQ like Messmer with the Abyssal Serpent. But once the seal over her eye is broken during the FF ending, her deeper nature is revealed. Now I think Scum and Kite are onto something but wondering if the GEQ wasn't the sister of Marika, but rather another aspect of Marika like Radagon. The statues in Enir Ilim depict three figures together: probably a man, woman, and snake-like figure wrapping around them. How crazy would it be if the story of the garden of Eden was actually bound up in one single person: Marika? So at the divine gate, Marika maybe betrays and divests herself of her GEQ-snake aspect and claims the two children for herself? Or maybe the snake tries to betray Marika but loses? The GEQ then sets out to exact revenge and bring about the death of the gods, eventually culminating in the Godskin hunt and confining of Destined Death. I'm not sold on this and don't know how we get from there to what I said about Melina, depending on when Messmer and Melina are born. But hey, that's the fun of theorizing and speculating!
Ever consider that Marika and Melina are both the GEQ? Melina says she was “born at the foot of the erdtree” and near the foot of the Scadutree is where you find the Scadutree Avatar with Miquella’s discarded rune. I feel like both the Avatar and Melina were born of discarded runes. This is of course operating under the assumption that Marika discarded her death rune at some point. Idk makes sense to me, I don’t think they ever disclose what two specific runes Radagon/Marika held so it’s probably both life and death rune. I also think the Twinbirds might be an allegory for Radagon-Marika as well. I should prolly make lore vids lol
Theory: Marika was the Gloam eyed Queen. Upon becoming a god she went dark and vengeful. Maliketh separated Marika and Destined Death "killing" the GEQ
Oh, also Hawkshaw hard an interesting video on Messmer's "secret" alliance. Apparently the combination of two coats of arms will often show one half of the shield with one coat and the other half with the 2nd coat. The combination of the two is called (get this) an impalement in heraldry. So it seems that Messmer title of impaler is a double entandre. He also mentioned that you see the braid sigil by itself at the very top of the Shadow keep, up by the bats.
Fantastic Video! This Has Been One Of Those Elden Ring Topics That Sends Me Into A Circle. Speaking Of...Have You Noticed That Yimur's Hat Looks A Hell Of A Lot Like The Gloom-Eyed Queen's Black Flame Sigil? Ever Since I Made That Connection I Can NOT Unsee It. In All The Imagery Of The Black Flame...It Is There. Just Complete. Perhaps The Gloom-Eyed Queen Was The Queen Of The Numen/Nox As Well. If Yumir's Hat Is To Represent The Abyss, After He Abandoned His Moon Studies, And His Hat Is The Symbol Of The Godslaying Black Flame...Maybe It Came From That Missing/Destroyed Black Moon If The Nox?
Great video again my man, totally subscribed. I'd watch Zayf the Scholars vid on dominula village, I think it will further the connection you are making. He points out how the braids on the dancers in the village are the same as Marikas and how half have erdtree gold cape and half have the godskin blue cape. The village is also flowery and all female, referencing shaman village perhaps. Some other things to note: God slaying greatsword textures look a lot like Enir-Ilem. Pillars of hornsent are similar to volcano manor but the ones below Eigle are spiraling in the opposite direction. We see snakes with wings in volcano manor and it kinda seems like Eigle is stretched to resemble wings. DD being "Plucked" may be from the wings or something. Some central pillars at Enir-Ilem although not spiralling look a lot like snake scales. The gate of divinity in the trailer looks just like Rykards blasphemy. The portrait in volcano manor where we fight Giza wheel npc has the same symbol on his mask as what are on the jar shaman blob people. Tanith has a mask denoting a dancer that dance with "no seduction", and depicts a queen of a distant land. Totally referencing the DLC story trailer. Also the masks seem to link to hornsent and dancers seem to link towards hornsent and shadowlands. We see masks on the zamor, and their color palette is Enir-Ilem esque. They have feathers on their armor, they summon storms, they fought against the giants/against the fell god which seems to frighten or mock the hornsent. And they are very dancey in their moveset, way different than any other curved greatsword. Maybe hornsent and GEQ helped fight the fire giants with marika which is why it is seen as such a betrayal. "It is said queen marika slayed the fell god" but it was probably GEQ with her sword and then radagon dumped her non-butt (snakes dont have butts). Lose connections: black flame tornado has a storm name, and hornsent deal with storms although fire seems to be amiss with them. Maybe that is the fire portion of storm that has been lost thanks to Marikas betrayel. It is theorized that Radagon seduced GEQ, had the babies and betrayed her. On the Brick Hammer it says a champion started a rebellion against the giants. We see misbegotten outside 2 of the forges in the shadowlands. We know misbegotten are connected to Radagon. Might place him in the shadow land forges? One is near moorth ruins, right above bonny village. Just seeing possible links, nothing too crazy here.
I cannot be the only one who still thinks the abductor virgins are modeled after Tannith. She's already confirmed to claim one snake baby as her own. She and Rykard don't have any children together. If he's the patriarch of the manor and she's the matriarch then she fits the role of a surrogate mother. The abductor virgins are supposed to bring people to the manor, which is what Tannith is also trying to do. The Volcano manor is full of death and torture and assassins, there's plenty of reason for acquiring new members to be bittersweet thus the virgins crying. That or I believe they are a reference to the literal thing that they are supposed to do. Bring people to the place where they will be fed to snakes. I mean they look like an artistic representation of a woman carrying a baby that is being chased and grabbed by snakes when they chase you. At least to me they do. However I also highly suspect from past FromSoft titles that the virgins were completed before whatever associated story was scrapped. If the virgin was one of the earlier assets designed it's very possible the team either thought there were conflicts with other quests or cut the associated characters before dialogue was recorded. They could have even had a whole alternative story that they nixed but liked the design of the virgins so they found them a spot in the game. Making them cause too many plot holes in theory crafting, because they're an artifact of an entirely different story.
I had to pause the video at 7:16 to say a couple of things (I really hope you get to read this and would be overjoyed if you could give me even a short answer): - First of all, I absolutely love your videos and most of the theories you've come up with and the evidence you've uncovered to support them are simply amazing, I think you are one of the best content creators when it comes to ER lore and I do believe you are correct about almost every thing you've said, I particularly loved your Godwyn video explaning his "fish tail" which according to you is actually his dragon tail. Thank you so much for your contributions, I believe you deserve to have literally 100x more suscribers and viewers. (The GEQ and Godwyn are my favorite parts of ER lore) - Secondly: I do think that Melina is almost guaranteed to be the daughter of the GEQ, this would make sense for several reasons: it would explain her gloam eye in the lord of frenzy ending, and would also explain why Marika would use her as kindling to burn the Erdtree the first time (I'm still very unsure of when or why the Erdtree was first burned as Tarnished Archeologist has theorized from the ashes in Leyndell and the fact that the Erdtree as we see it ingame is clearly in spirit form). Regarding Messmer, I think you may also be correct and that he may be the result of a union between Radagon and the GEQ, it would explain his red hair and his connection with snakes. As for Melina, I'm not sure who her father would be, but for some reason I don't believe it's Radagon, then again I may me mistaken. Perhaps I should review Tarnished Archeologists videos to find out when and why the Erdtree was first burned (perhaps during the shattering?) but I would really love to hear your theory on the first burning of the Erdtree, perhaps it happened when the Scadutree was formed? I hope you find the time to read and give some insight about this matter! 😅 In any case, I want to thank you again for putting out such great content, I do believe you deserve to have at least as many suscribers and views as Vaati if not more, you've become one of my favorite content creators on this platform and I have watched all your videos, in fact, I watch them at night to help me fall asleep and they are one of the best cures I've found for my insomnia since I've quit using weed for that purpose. I hope you keep making videos for a long time! And if you ever run out of content for Elden Ring lore, I'm sure you might have a lot to offer regarding other fromsoft games, I especially would love to see what you might uncover about Bloodborne lore, and if that ever happens, I must recommend that you check out Charred Thermos' videos about the parallels between Bloodborne and the history of autopsies and modern science. Keep up the good work my parasocial friend, Much love from France💗
I believe the shattering happened long after the original great tree was burned, the erdtree was grown, and the golden order was founded. Unless the erdtree strangled out the original great tree. In that case, Melina burned the physical erdtree and we only see what remains: a small part of a real tree around the door, the rest a golden illusion. But it’s also possible the erdtree’s influence fading over time is represented by the spectral version. Based on the architecture of Leyndell, either it was built around the original great tree’s location prior to the erdtree’s inception, or built during the time of the erdtree. It has different architecture than the style of the ancient dynastic civilization (Elden John, stone coffins, all of the ruins in the base game)
Melina is the GEQ's daughter that Marika stole, hence the 'virgin abductor' but here's the twist. Melina is Marika and GEQ's child. Marika, the Gloam Eyed Queen and Radagon are a zyzygy of the Ego, the Id and a woman's Animus. I'm almost nailing the final points in this theory but everything in the game points to it. The TwinBirds and it's resemblance to the Caduceus and it's staff as a god itself are are a big key in this, they without a doubt represent Marika and GEQ. the church of Eiglay has tons of depictions of serpents with wings and talons facing eachother. Eiglay's skin is literally hung like a winged bird in it. Watch this be the next DLC, fromsoft is not done yet. They're way too quiet and are still uploading regular Elden Ring content around weapons and armors.
Right on! I’ve long thought that black flame sigil was meant to resemble a uterus. This is the first time I see a content creator share that connection. A few other musings here: - White can be symbolic of death in Eastern cultures (in contrast to black in the west). The Godskins prominently feature both, from their attire to their flame. - White is also symbolic of innocence. - Ying-Yang is not a reach for a potential symbolic allusion since the troubles escalate once Death is removed and an egregious imbalance established. - Black might represent something like a void, or, the absence of Life. - The Godskin Noble’s attire is not unlike the more commonly seen fertility fetishes of many cultures.
The woman on the Peeler looks like the dark statue in the church where your dead fingermaiden is at the Precipice of Anticipation. Same hooded appearance and flowing cloth at her front as well.
So the theory that Marika is literally the gloam eyed queen has been thrown around. and until this video I wasn't compelled. But that baby holding woman on the godskin peeler did it for me. So when its said that Malekith killed the Gloam eyed queen, what if that was just figurative? Or maybe even an outright lie? What if the Gloam eyed queen was Marika's old title when she eradicated the hornsent and their gods? Here's the crackpot theory: Marika was a shaman. She wanted vengeance against the hornsent. She did something freaky with a snake god, which could be considered 'the seduction' from the trailer. Hence all the snake tie ins with the godskin apostles. The snake god was the true wielder of destined death, and bestowed this power onto her. She used her god slaying power to slay the old gods of the hornsent, hence the title of godslayer. She had a kid with the snake god. Messmer. Which is why he has so much snake symbolism. When Marika was done killing the hornsent, she communed with the Greater Will using the gate of divinity. In this moment, she was given Malekith, a shadow of herself. This is the figurative 'killing' of the Gloam Eyed Queen, because the moment she accepted the Greater Will's blessing, she 'shed' the snake god's power. This could also be considered 'the betrayal.' When Malekith fought off whatever was left of the snake god, Marika took destined death and sealed it in Malekith. In the following age, the reason why snakes and snake iconography became so taboo is because of what Marika did to ascend to godhood. She seduced an ancient snake god, used its power to become a god, and subsequently annihilated that snake god from both physical and historical memory. She took its primary power and sealed it away, and the idea of snakes became taboo for the entirety of the golden order. This theory isn't watertight obviously. It assumes the snake god was the original wielder of destined death. Which could be true, given the primordial representation of snakes, but not confirmed in game. It also doesn't explain what Marika is pulling gold threads out of in the trailer, which I'm still stumped about. I could cope and say that is the snake, but its not super compelling. Lastly is this snake god existing at all, which by all means doesn't seem referenced solidly anywhere outside Messmer, and the volcano manor. If there was a snake god responsible for destined death, I think it would show a bit more prominently.
Smoughtown recently uploaded a short where he talks about a recent translation that says the godslayer seal depicts a palm manipulating the black flame.
Feel like a lot more lore details would be revealed if more creators would take more detailed looks at weapons and armor. There's a lot of detail there to be explored
Totally agree on the Golden Seeds; I did mean the ones that grew the minor Erdtrees. As for the actual Erdtree there’s an argument as to whether the tree we see is real or not (I don’t remember who but one of the NPCs does hint at not being able to see it and then there’s there’s an item description that talks about the tree becoming just an object of faith rather than giving any blessings anymore. On the length of time, we arrive a few centuries after the Shattering and there’s thousands of years of the reign of Marika in which no one’s really died properly for the vast majority of it since removing death from the equation. Although given the amount of genocides she ordered I think I’d be prepared to bet that the first burning would have taken place around the time of the Long Walk of the Tarnished and the elevation of Radagon to Elden Lord. Maybe the burning is why he was elevated; we create new Erdtrees in most of the endings after we burn the tree ourselves.
I’m pretty confident that Eiglay is the GEQ. The obsession with the gods and the snake motif can’t be ignored. Though I’m not sure if she’s a part of Markia, a sibling, or just happens to be another shaman empyrean. I also believe Messmer is her child, stolen away by Markia. Messmer not only looks like a godskin, but he has the snake motif and flames which can utterly destroy you, both body and soul. Edit: There’s also a chance she might have been the god before Marika, though this is speculation based on the dlc trailer.
Could the connection between Flame and Snakes be further enchanced by the temptation on the Black Flame Monks? Just seems more than just a coincidence with this theory. Amazing video as well! loved the discovery!
Geq is literally just marika fused into the devouring serpent, the serpent's skin is in front of bonney village, indicating marika assimilated into a snake to escape being stuffed in a jar, the serpent has grown since then, I'd go as far as saying this form of marika is the fled consort of placidusax as soon as malekith burned her
Snake + Fire = Dragon Dragons are the symbol of divinity, and Marika the mortal stole divinity from her Pale Snake in a coil = Moon Fire = Sun Radagon is the sun, and Rennala the moon; their convergence in the Eclipse is subdued in perpetuity by Miquella and Radahn. Though Radagon abandoned Rennala to become Elden Lord, she is still converged with him. His sun is the egg, and they are Mother and Child.
the texture on the godskin peeler also kinda looks like Venus in "The Birth of Venus" painting, with both the posture and the way the cloth is wrapped around her edit: also incredible video my guy!! had chills when you brought in Messmer and Melina as the snake and fire aspects of GEQ, i've always kinda assumed they were more related to eachother (like how Malenia and Miquella are a set), and the neat tie-in of them both being kept secret and how they are two "halves" of GEQ really made it click for me!
I WAS TRYING SO HARD TO REMEMBER what that image was LOL I kept thinking Aphrodite but I couldn't find the damn depiction of her on the shell holding her hair, that is BC IT WAS VENNUSSSSS BLESS you Credited in pinned comment
my man this is why i subed u really pushing this communities understanding forward I was alwasys SICKEMED by ppl saying melina was the geq like damn shut those ppl up already
if marika and the GEQ were sisters the whole "betrayal" in the trailer would make alot of sense edit: Just thought of this, but Marika seduces the hornsent to teach her the ritual of godhood and then betrays her (possible) sister for the golden threads
Dude, how come I never saw this woman at the godskin peeler?! I'm such a GEQ enthusiast! Amazing connections! The one with Metyr messes with my brain though, never thought about it.
One thing I think is inverted, the abductor virgin looks more like the GEQ's depiction, so the name itself come be a reference to her, she could be virgin and abduct newborns to raise as her godskin warriors, and the baby on the Abductor Virgin could be a depiction of the kidnapped newborns.
It really amuses me how intricate the lore to this game is, like how much time was put into this game’s lore Commenting just to appreciate ALL the effort put into this game, every texture, every mechanic, every animation, every piece of lore, this game truly deserved GOTY 🙏🏽🙏🏽
I think this puts a few pieces into place as to why Marika fearfully Plucked & sealed Messmer's eyes( and him away), she saw the base serpent and recognized from her past with the Gloam Eyed Queen, if pale snakes are associated with the GEQ then I don't think it's an unreasonable connection at all; and maybe the secret seduction and betrayal was marikas (through Radagon) of the GEQ sicking Malekith on her at the gate of ascension for the holy thread or whatever.
very cool!! the geq symbol also looks a lot like the aztec symbol for the moon, also related to coatlique, death, and birth. Not a lot of people interested in the mesoamerica refrences in elden but they're there!
Yo, since you're zooming in on textures I had a texture puzzle that might be relevant to what you're talking about here. Check out the underside of the preceptor's helm, notice that the stars are very stylized and almost look like masses of tentacles of snakes. Then the God-skin apostle's helm, and just the helm by itself, has this long flap of skin hanging off of the back and at the bottom potion of the skin is a similar writhing-mass design. I suppose the writhing mass could be a mass of fingers or Metyr or snake ball or something like the Fell God visage that's on the fire golem.
Ok, hear me out. What if the thing/snake that marika pulls the golden strings out of is in fact a freshly shed Eiglay/God-devouring serpent (thats why the skin is to soft and white, though no signs of scales). Regardless of whether this is true, Eiglay was probably allied with GEQ at that time (Eiglay shed skin in Bonny Village and therefore was probably present before Marika became a god) If Eiglay died at that time, it would explain why Rykard has to hatch the God-devouring serpent first before he lets it eat him. (see Intro Cutscene, where Eiglay is way smaller than the shed skin in Bonny Village) And it would also explain why Rykard seemingly knows so much about the GEQ and Marika (even though he was born way later) and why he designed the "Abductor Virgins" the way he did. "A serpent never dies."
I do like the idea that Melina is a daughter of the gloam eyed queen a bit better than her being the queen herself and that her and Messmer were “adopted” by Marika.
Issue: "The problem with Gloam eyed Queen being Messmer's Mother, is how did she had a son with Radagon? because Radagon's motiff in Messmer's OST, Red Hair, etc makes it OBVIOUS that Radagon was his Father" Solution: So answer to this would be Radagon inseminating Eiglay's (GEQ's) Egg. Emulated by Rykard producing Rya. Also we have to know that Rkyard is more than likely intimately aware of Marika's relationship with snakes and the GEQ. Issue: "But Messmer refers to Marika as Mother" Solution: This can be true if Messmer was orphaned and was raised by Marika and Radagon. (say if the GEQ was slain) Issue: "What about Melina being the GEQ?" Solution: You know who else thinks of Marika as mother? Melina, however we know she's basically GEQ reincarnate so she could be conceived by GEQ's human form.... *Enters* Abductor Virgins? Commissioned by Rykard the baby is meant to resemble Melina being swaddled by the GEQ. (Not baby Messmer as I believe he is said to have been born with winged serpents attached..) Marika stole Melina and locked her away (where we find the blade of calling). So we see a mournful representation of GEQ holding a baby. The abduction mechanism transports people to the volcano manor as sacrifices but perhaps a secondary reason would be to find GEQ's missing child.
It never occured to me that she is depicted on the Peeler, zamn. Also very interesting theory about her being Marika's sibling, I can't believe I haven't heard that theory before
What i think people ignore too much when making theories involving parentage is that people are born out of trees and flowers with attributes that had been put back into the tree, like how DNA isn't making a blend of two people, but a combination with different segments of dna from two people's ancestors. It's akin to some ideas of reincarnation where certain attributes are reincarnated, but not the full embodiment of the reincarnated. Demigods having "parents" is just who raises them and what they're told. Marika takes the children of ALL and then puts them in the places/castes she wants to serve her planned order. I think that's why the snake mother was a blasphemer. Procreation went against the Erdtree. This is talked about in Remembrances, shown in artwork/architecture, and demonstrated through Malenia's buds.
Maybe the Hornsent was trying to make a new Gloam-Eyed Queen when they made Marika. Kind of like the Frankenstein story, the monster started to do violent things on its own.
I don't know if anyone else has looked into this, but there is some very interesting hanging ornamentation on the Godskin Apostle headpiece. They look like eggs nestled in tentacles.
Amazing video yo. If you look at the briar greatshield, the woman on it looks like she is dancing to evoke flames that burn undead, with ash falling onto growing flowers. I think the flowers are symbolic of her children, it reminds me of the ghost and grave flowers that have spirits in or near them. I almost forgot to say the wear and tear of the shield is what looks like falling ash. Iv'e always felt like Marika was the GEQ, but I've been going down the fallen sun rabbit hole, and its deep, but what I cant unsee, is Marika's sorseal, Midras incantation pose, and the rapture emote you get from the 2 finger(I think). That and I just cant find sun, for praise the sun, in messages. I left a praise the bright spot, but its just not the same man
Tbf, she really easily abandoned Morgott and Mogh, who are hers'. The throughline connecting the Omen twins and Messmer (regarding their abandonment by their mother) is being born cursed. Frankly, I wonder if Marika was crucified before she could exile Miquella and Malenia, too!
He even CORRECTS himself after you beat him. Saying "Mother..." But then correcting himself and saying her name, "Marika, a curse upon thee." Why would he curse her? Unless he realized she wasn't his true mother, because Eiglay was. He's also resistant to Black Flame. A resistance nothing in the main game has, and it's because it was his mother's flame.
@@DreamersOfReality of course she abandoned her hornsent children. They were everything she tried to destroy. A world without horns is what she desired
Least expected a PoE mention in an Elden Ring vid since the DLC I've had a hunch some of the devs may have played PoE, think it was some ability/spell that immediately reminded me of a PoE mechanic (I don't remember what exactly atm, but the feeling was there)
I like where this is going, but I still think there's still a bit more of something to this. This mainly has to do with how the Forge of the Giants has a thing for turning watchers into worshippers. Something I wondered is if the design of the serpents on it could be relation to the early map designs of the game like how we'd see sea monster depictions on it without seeing these monsters in game. But I've wondered that could be in someway part of Melina's becoming in fate.
The fact that when their seals of Grace are removed reveals black hair seems to also lead some visual credence to the parentage. The Gloam Eye Queen in 1.00 is called the Black Haired Queen. Pure Coincidence.
Wow, another interesting perspective of the Gloam Eyed Queen. Past theories. She is Melina, She is Marika She is a child of Marika And now she is the Sister of Marika
I believe the cinematic we see at the gate of divinity is her skinning/betraying the Hornsent GEQ then skinning herself of this dark aspect. All representative of Marika’s frequent splitting of light (sacred relic sword) and dark (Godslayer Greatsword) by sealing death! Look at the tree where you get Marika’s braid, the stone sheath sword, Godslayer gs, and sacred relic sword. She spilt her dark aspect (gloam eyed queen/abyssal serpent) at the gate of divinity. Splitting the dark tree branch from the light tree or great tree. Then the light erdtree branched between causality and regression
I think Marika’s “seduction and betrayal” was of the GEQ, done in her guise as Radagon, similar to her conquest of Raya Lucaria through the seduction and betrayal of Rennala. I like the idea of Marika yet again playing a cuckoo here and stealing the offspring of her rival-perhaps though she fathered Messmer and Melina, as Radagon, with the GEQ. It explains all of their traits nicely, and would be a union of Fire and Death. I think all of Marika’s big conquests play out this way, and that she did something similar to the giants as well-that conquest might’ve led to the formation of the Radagon persona to begin with. I think that all the shaping and splitting of the Elden Ring itself happens through marriages (to fuse) and births (to split): the Elden Ring isn’t just inside Marika, it’s inside her whole family TREE
My theory is that when Marika made her wish and offered her braid, she was really making an exchange with the serpent. I believe the godskin cloth in the trailer was the very first godskin, and I think it was born incestually between Melina and Messmer. This could also be a baby Messmer wearing the cloth of an actual god, and could be that Messmer and Melina later led the godskin regime, or maybe Melina just took his "ssspecs" to create them herself. It could also be that the godskins came from an alliance between the GEQ and the god-devouring serpent. Anyways, just like Ranni, Melina is also burned and bodiless BUT she doesn't know why. I believe Melina was involved in a death ritual that she wasn't even aware of, I believe she is daedricar. The traits of the serpent on Elden ring are: it's diet determines its features, and its hunger is endless. Which represent immortality and rebirth very well. The godskins I believe are more snake-minded, and have the same endless hunger. At the end of Melina's conquest, I think the godskins turned out to be not loyal and only motivated by the prospect of God Slaying, resulting in Melina suffering daedricar's fate
Finally someone brave enough to say it (about the briar set :) ) Btw it looks like there are 3 faces happy, mad, natural.. The fact that there are no Godskins in shadowlands, there is Mesmer in shadowlands suggests that either Melina is GEQ and was born after banishing the shadowlands or that the real mother of Mesmer is GEQ being the reason he is spared by the Godskins.
Godwyn must have died before the removal of the lands of shadow because of the death knights and no minor erd-trees so it probably goes godwyn->removal->shattering
This suddenly got me thinking that Marika was the GEQ and secretly led a resistance against the Hornsent who were torturing her people. She became guided by the Mother of Fingers (hence the symbol) yet at some point learned of a path to godhood (possibly from the snake) and betrayed her followers, ditched the moniker, and became known as Marika the eternal; hiding the power she once welded in her daughter Melina. Speaking of Melina, I wonder if, earlier, she possibly commanded the Black Knife Assassins in support of her mother; considering the all female Numen connection and Melina's weapon choice. One thing about the DLC is that it leaves a large gap between the Shaman lore and Queen Marika the Eternal and is vague about how she pulled it off, so I'm kinda grasping at straws to fill in a blank.
Very tempting to consider but I'd say it's more the baby is Godwyn, only uncursed normal child that's apart of Marika's family as all of Marika's kids are cursed.
Tbh knowing Fromsoft lore and that Martin mostly wrote the history, not neccessarily the current game; I beleive the GEQ is a person we don't know, isn't related too the other gods, and isn't related to the other Empyreans. I do think Melina is linked to the GEQ. But I don't think she is, unlike a lot of people. I don't think we have to connect every character. But I DO love your theories and these connections ARE good.
A thought I had while watching your video, but not really substantiated by anything other than speculation: maybe the Gloam Eyed Queen isn't a sibling to Marika but instead an aspect? Similar to how Miquella and St. Trina were one and the same but had different manifestations across the Lands Between. A parallel situation between Miquella and Radahn (Miquella abandoning St. Trina for Radahn) could've occurred with Marika abandoning the GEQ for Radagon, except Marika abandoned her right at the Gate of Divinity and that's what we're seeing in the trailer? Messmer and Melina could've been the children of Marika/GEQ and Radagon before they were split. The implication of Melina's words ("Thou’rt yet to become me. Thou’rt yet to become a God") in Marika's bedchamber hints that they have not always been the same being so maybe when she abandoned the GEQ, she took it a step further and made Radagon into her other half. EDIT: made this comment before looking at your other stuff and seeing you had a similar theory!! going to binge all your stuff now.
IMPORTANT NOTE:
I was trying to remember the image of a woman holding her hair and standing on a shell as I thought it looked very similar BUT I COULD NOT FIND IT.. Because I was searching for Aphrodite :') That is because it was, as the BRILLIANT jfalk6500 pointed out in the comments, VENUS!
The "Roman goddess whose functions encompass love, beauty, desire, sex, fertility, prosperity, and victory" :D
AND MY GOODNESS the image is so similar.
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I do believe this may be the first time this image has been discovered, and most assuredly is the closest thing available to a depiction of the Gloam Eyed Queen!
Thankyou for taking the time to watch my video, I hope it was worth your while! There are some real big projects coming!
PS Apologies if the music is at all clashing with the sound. I uploaded and got copyright struck which is kind of weird because it was Tchaikovsky lmao
This really just confirms in my eyes the suspicion I and many others have that Marika herself is in fact the Gloam Eyed Queen. it is the only conclusion I can find that makes sense to all her connections in the game.
@@intalek305Either Marika or her twin, or an impersonater
Regarding background music the best type to use to avoid copyright strikes is video game OST pieces. Most gaming companies sans Nintendo forgo claiming that music to encourage Let's Play content. Otherwise every LP would be flagged.
Wouldn't say your the first to discover this, I had already seen this floating around in a one of the lore discords I frequented 5 months ago. Might be new for a lot of people though.
@@intalek305
Hint (imo): YES, AND NO! 😂❤
The more we look into the lore, the more the entire history of the Lands Between turns out to be an extended family spat.
That's exactly what it is. It was confirmed as such by Miyazaki way back during the early days of the base game when he was asked about George RR Martin's contribution. Miyazaki said George wrote the world history after they had a series of fruitful discussions on a wide variety of topics. When Miyazaki departed from their final meeting, he thought he knew roughly the shape of what George would set about writing. What he eventually got was not at all what he expected however. Because while George did create a world that hit all the beats Miyazaki has requested, it was framed through the lens of a single family's rise and eventual ruin. While initially disappointed with what he got, once he set his preconceived expectations aside, he came to embrace the story he got, and went all in on the "shattered family" angle.
Honestly I'm not sure what Miyazaki was expecting, George loves 3 things: world building, "the human heart in conflict with itself," and weird sex stuff. And we got all 3 in spades with Elden Ring.
I do find it funny that whole George was likely the one who gave us Dragon-fucker Vyke, it was very likely Miyazaki who gave us the Miquellester the Brother-Bride.
@@Coast2CoastFlyin The sad thing is Messmer for all that's he's a complete monster and possessed by a primordial predator is the most stable and relatable one with Radahn a diseased wreck or empty shell. His plight as an abandoned and neglected child desperate for a heartless mother's love is unfortunately a very relatable condition for many people.
"All I can see, is a boob" Ah yes. A man of culture I see. Carry on sir.
bewwwb
@@ゼロシンgreat theory
The problem with Gloam eyed Queen being Messmer's Mother, is how did she had a son with Radagon? because Radagon's motiff in Messmer's OST, Red Hair, etc makes it OBVIOUS that Radagon was his Father.
Radagon gets around
A friendly reminder that George R.R. Martin wrote the background lore
Perhaps Marika, as Radagon, seduced the Gloam Eyed Queen, and Mesmer and Melina might truly be both their children. Isn’t there a line about seduction in the DLC trailer?
Radagon is Marika, so...
Polygamy
This is an old write-up now, with some recent updates from the DLC.
Marika is the Gloam/Dusk-Eyed Queen.
- Red and black spike of death impales Marika and keeps her in place when we find her at the end. Only Maliketh wields this power, and only he could even defeat a God like Marika. But he's so loyal to her, why would he?
- Maliketh "defeated" the Gloam/Dusk-Eyed Queen. We know Shadowbound hounds have to attack their former master if The Fingers feel like the Empyrean is acting against them. We play through this reality with Ranni's quest, and both she and Iji know Blaidd will go mad as she enacts her vision. How do they know this happens? They saw/heard of it happening to Maliketh and Marika already.
- Only Marika would be able to guide Ranni to the location of the Rune of Death and how to use it for it to be stolen in the first place to forge the Black Knives. Remember, "Marika... is this what it is to sin?" "Why gull me..." Marika, after all, had only one use for Maliketh in the end, after the other work was done... a vessel to seal away Destined Death. And even then, she betrayed him.
- The Beast Eye is a purple, scratched up eye. It's Marika's eye from being defeated and imprisoned by her Shadowbound. No other Queen or Empyrean is "defeated" but not slain, as the text implies there except Marika. And who but her purpose-made hound could even stop her, a God? The one entity empowered enough by the Ring/Fingers to be able to do so should the need arise.
- Dominula Village is much like the Hinterlands and the Shaman Village. We find a skinning ritual and a Godskin Apostle there in Dominula. We learn that the "festival" is old and tacitly accepted by the Golden Order. The aesthetic of these villages is much the same, and they're intimately tied to Marika herself.
- Gideon gives us a boon in the form of a secret rite known only to him, Black Flame Protection. He is alleged to have peered into the will of Queen Marika, and shuddered at the end that should not be.
- The Scadutree is of a dual nature. So is Queen Marika. When Gold arose, so too was Shadow born. Gold and Shadow exist as necessary contrasts to each other, yet in a God, in Marika, this duality exists in coalesce, or it did once.
- No other characters are named as Queen or Empyrean that aren't already accounted for/ruled out to be the GEQ, and by that I mean Melina, she was given purpose by her mother at the foot of the Erdtree and that means she is a daughter of Marika, not old enough to be the GEQ but possesses traits of both Marika and Radagon. Eye color and hair color are passed down traits we see in game. Well, sure enough, Melina shows us a purple/gloamy eye in one ending. Inherited trait from her mother, the Queen in Black. Marika's eyes are never shown to us, to judge their color.
- Duskborn ending sees Godwyn rise to ascendancy and sees Death restored, with him as the Prince of Death itself. These titles aren't meaningless. Duskborn? The "Prince" of Death? Well, who would the Queen be? If Godwyn is Duskborn, and if he is a Prince, his mother would, of course, be associated with "Dusk" and be a Queen. And we know his mother is Queen Marika.
- Fia is hooded with a black cloak and comes from some other land. She also helps create Godwyn's Duskborn ending and is Death-aligned. We see Marika wearing black hooded garb in a statue where she also is holding the twins Miquella and Malenia. Her tattered clothing as we find her at the end is also black. She is also associated with the Nox/Numen race and the Black Knife Assassins that come from there as well.
- Statues of Marika in her crucified pose all show her with a flowing black cloth that wraps behind her in almost the exact same shape as the Godslayer Greatsword, which was the weapon or ritual sword of the GEQ/DEQ. You have to pivot the camera a bit to get a good view, but the shape is very similar. Coiled and then open, with one flap slightly longer than the other, same tip design on the Godslayer Greatsword. It's possible that she was propped up by the Hornsent culture and then part of the betrayal was killing other Gods in their pantheon, but what's maybe more possible is as Centered Tarnished pointed out, that Marika culled some other of her "unwanted" children after learning the truth of the broken Fingers and flawed foundations of her Order.
- Godwyn is referred to as the "Prince of Gold" in an item description. If a Prince of Death could have been a Prince of Gold, why couldn't his mother hold this potential as well, even necessarily so? We see from the Death Knights that Gold and Death can somehow synergize even still... Gold and Shadow, born at the same time, same as it ever was.
- Hewg prays to Queen Marika about his given task to craft a Godslaying weapon. Very interesting and specific task. Marika wants a God slain. He mentions "the sheer terror of Her..." regarding Marika. Godskins certainly take an interest in killing a God. Who was their leader? A "defeated" Queen who was once an Empyrean. Marika.
- Raging Wolf Vargram is a would-be Shadow. Wolf imagery is on his armor. He wields the Godslayer Greatsword. The weapon art is "The Queen's Black Flame", of course. A statue of Marika exists in Farum Azula showing her with three wolves.
- Marika learned the secrets of the Golden Order and realized her children would "amount only to sacrifices" as she instructed them. She knew the Erdtree was a soul parasite, and by sealing Death away, she weakened the Erdtree over time. She also had Godwyn buried at the roots of it, knowing that he would grow and overtake them, choking the Erdtree further. As he was, Godwyn was an "unwanted" child since he embodied the Golden Order, and she was a prisoner to it. He would end up much like Miquella would, a caged divinity of some kind. She was likely opposed to the Erdtree and Greater Will/Fingers for a long time, weaving plots in secret until the Shattering. She realized, only too late, that ultimate power has a way of becoming a curse when the truth of the nature of it all is finally revealed.
Just as Marika shined so brightly with her Golden Order, another aspect of her was as deep as the abyss and as dark as any shadow.
I’ve noticed a while back that Maliketh has a similar moveset to the Godskins. His “Destined Death” attack is very similar to how the Godskin Apostles wind and contort their bodies to channel the power of their black flames.
I had already come to these same conclusions as well and another thing to support your eye point, both of radagons eyes are removed and are talismans, whereas only one of marikas is wearable as a talisman, it is heavily implied that the beast eye is the missing eye of marika torn out by gurranq (Maliketh).
much better comment then video theory
This makes too much sense to not be true
@@MK-vi2cm It was always right there. That's why this character of the GEQ is just "missing"
I always found it odd that the Godskin Swaddling Cloth of all things is a talisman that restores hp after dealing damage, the exact opposite of the Black Flame which continuously drains hp after the first hit
I believe the GEQ is meant to be a physical depiction of "death," which is why the golden order was created upon her defeat and the confining of the rune of death. Perhaps the black flame became stronger with the death of the gods which, in turn, made the godskins more powerful. And notably, if they are skinning these gods and keeping their intact godskin after, a flame would make this impossible - implying that the blackflame drains the very soul from their opponent, instead of merely burning them.
Blasphemous Blade and the snake god curved sword or whatever, also have HP giving effects and are both snake related
i came here to inform you that this life stealing black flame and swaddling cloth hp giving effect is supposed to mimic the serpentine rules of the volcano manor where you devour to gain, stealing the life essence from the other
but the swaddling cloth is specifically a gift of life which is the opposite of a serpentine demeanor, the act of birthing the apostles was the opposite of greed and was a thing of selflessness reminiscent of breastfeeding a baby
Swaddling ca also imply constriction which many snakes do before feeding
Maybe, instead of being siblings, the Geq was once part of Marika, just like st. trina was part of miquella. basically after she ascended as god, marika was the gloam eyed queen and the gods she killed were the hornsent gods. once she decided to remove death from the elden ring and found her golden order, she discarded this other side of her, the Gloam eyed queen, and battled her, removing her rune and founding the golden order, marrying godfrey, etc.
But wouldn't that kill her? When Miquella dies, St. Trina does too.
@@BlueNorth313 What if it is simpler than that? What if the GEQ is not another side of her or anything, but just golder order propaganda rewriting history? Basically, the side of Marika that shouldn't be seen or remembered. The Marika who killed and burned the hornsent civilization, who exterminated gods, etc.
Basically to make Marika's hands seem clear, the golden order created this fake other evil queen that was defeated by the good queen Marika, when in reality it was just Marika "changing her policy" abandoning and hiding her old ways (similar to how she hid her whole crusade against the hornsent), kinda like Houra Loux became Godfrey and now the 2 are known as different people.
Radagon is marikas other half wtf lmao
What if Marika is the St. Trina to The Gloameyed queen? And that made Maria a betrayer because she was not the part that was destined for divinity.
I find it interesting how there are never two godskin nobles or apostles present in the same place and how the FA boss name is called "duo" as duo means there are only two which suggests the godskins we fight are the same lean and fat guy, perhaps the only surviving ones. And this is interesting because the godskins are godslayers like the true purpose of the Tarnished and they also respawn like the Tarnished.
Also, the windmill village is inhabited by only women like the shaman village was, they have Marika's hairstyle with one missing braid, Marika's elden rune decorated with flowers all over Dominula, they're skinners like the godskins and their weapons are made of bones which net more runes from landing attacks like the festive grease exclusive to the DLC is with an icon that is reminiscent of the shaman village.
And there is also iris of grace and occultation. The godskins clearly have grace as their eyes are golden and Marika controlled this blessing. But if she had occultation irises at some point then maybe she was known as the Gloam-Eyed Queen.
Interesting observation about the shaman village and Dominula connections
The woman on the Peeler bears similarity to the woman found throughout Farum Azula, though the Farum Azula woman also bears an explicit crown.
A byzantine style crown that matches to the giant woman statues found within Rauh.
All three of these depictions are the Gloameyed Queen.
The former Queen (god) who bore the Elden Ring, whose Elden Lord was Placidusax.
(This is also reinforced by the Godskin duo being found in the Dragon Temple of Farum Azula and that there's verdigris on/in the walls of Farum Azula... Not to mention the identical architecture to Enir Elim.)
Marika's Rune is called the Rune of Life in 1.00. In alignment with her ideological dispensation it makes sense for her to b a twin or sibling to the Rune of Death's Gloam Eyed Queen. Kinda like Mohg and Morgott, Malenia/Miquella, possibly Radahn/Rykard( pure speculation here)
You weren't kidding. Excellent finds in this video and you've really done some phenomenal texture work. My theory that Marika used Radagon to commit the betrayal/seduction of the GEQ now holds more disturbing, classical GRRM weight than it did before. I think the Dominula connection is really interesting, as the festive grease tells us the festival is so old that even the Golden Order tacitly allows its continued practice. Is this because they share motifs with shaman village, or because this was a practice the GEQ had created and Marika felt guilt over her past betrayal and decided to overlook it?
I feel like the final connection is strengthening the links between the Nox and GEQ which your prior grandmother's video already set roots for. Hyped!!!
6:43 Could it be that both Messmer and Melina are the children of the Gloam-eyed Queen and *Radagon*? That would explain why they both have red (or strawberry blonde, in Melina's case) hair and also would provide a convenient explanation for who their father is (assuming that the GEQ can't give birth to demigods by herself).
I had a theory that Marika was the GEQ before she achieved Godhood, but with SoTE I’m now of the belief that Melina actually was the GEQ before she became “burned and bodiless”; she’s the one Malekith defeated. She was an empyrean, made a play for power, burned the Great Tree (causing the first blanket of ash over Leyndell and giving rise to the Golden Seeds), got smacked down for it and then “reborn” by Marika much later when she was crucified.
My theory is that empyreons are just 2 beings in 1 body.
Melina would be an empyrean with the gloam eyed queen implanted in her.
Miquella+makenia accidently got implanted with outergods (rot for malenia, possibly formless mother for miquella)
Marika was implanted with Radagon.
Even some other kids have this 2 beings 1 body.
Rykard has the snake eigley
Godwyn has some death blight fish/dragon thing
Mesmer has the fire + snake
Mogh + Morgott have the omen
Ranni has 4 arms, and a soul not fully bound to a doll. possibly the snow witch.
The funny thing is I'm the exact opposite now 😂. I held onto your current theory for like 2 years until recently. Now I think Melina is more of a vessel for the GEQ like Messmer with the Abyssal Serpent. But once the seal over her eye is broken during the FF ending, her deeper nature is revealed.
Now I think Scum and Kite are onto something but wondering if the GEQ wasn't the sister of Marika, but rather another aspect of Marika like Radagon. The statues in Enir Ilim depict three figures together: probably a man, woman, and snake-like figure wrapping around them. How crazy would it be if the story of the garden of Eden was actually bound up in one single person: Marika?
So at the divine gate, Marika maybe betrays and divests herself of her GEQ-snake aspect and claims the two children for herself? Or maybe the snake tries to betray Marika but loses? The GEQ then sets out to exact revenge and bring about the death of the gods, eventually culminating in the Godskin hunt and confining of Destined Death.
I'm not sold on this and don't know how we get from there to what I said about Melina, depending on when Messmer and Melina are born. But hey, that's the fun of theorizing and speculating!
I’m pretty sure it was Bernahl who burnt the tree first which is why he’s in farum azula
Ever consider that Marika and Melina are both the GEQ? Melina says she was “born at the foot of the erdtree” and near the foot of the Scadutree is where you find the Scadutree Avatar with Miquella’s discarded rune. I feel like both the Avatar and Melina were born of discarded runes. This is of course operating under the assumption that Marika discarded her death rune at some point. Idk makes sense to me, I don’t think they ever disclose what two specific runes Radagon/Marika held so it’s probably both life and death rune. I also think the Twinbirds might be an allegory for Radagon-Marika as well. I should prolly make lore vids lol
Considering she is probably messmer's sister, that is unlikely
Theory: Marika was the Gloam eyed Queen. Upon becoming a god she went dark and vengeful. Maliketh separated Marika and Destined Death "killing" the GEQ
I like how you say we were left with next to nothing about her as the black flames dissipate.
Whether intentional or not I loved it!!
Thank you for your time put in this awesome video! Absolutely love it.
Oh, also Hawkshaw hard an interesting video on Messmer's "secret" alliance. Apparently the combination of two coats of arms will often show one half of the shield with one coat and the other half with the 2nd coat. The combination of the two is called (get this) an impalement in heraldry. So it seems that Messmer title of impaler is a double entandre. He also mentioned that you see the braid sigil by itself at the very top of the Shadow keep, up by the bats.
So, possibly, Marika was not tempted to take from the tree of knowledge by the serpent, she WAS the serpent of temptation.
Can't wait for 2052 when they'll release the story book of the game giving the full story and lore. 56 years old me will be super happy.
Awwwwwww babes thank you for the spotlight!!! 🥲❤️ Love all of these texture highlights, you are giving the designers their due acknowledgement
Fantastic Video!
This Has Been One Of Those Elden Ring Topics That Sends Me Into A Circle.
Speaking Of...Have You Noticed That Yimur's Hat Looks A Hell Of A Lot Like The Gloom-Eyed Queen's Black Flame Sigil?
Ever Since I Made That Connection I Can NOT Unsee It. In All The Imagery Of The Black Flame...It Is There.
Just Complete.
Perhaps The Gloom-Eyed Queen Was The Queen Of The Numen/Nox As Well.
If Yumir's Hat Is To Represent The Abyss, After He Abandoned His Moon Studies,
And His Hat Is The Symbol Of The Godslaying Black Flame...Maybe It Came From That Missing/Destroyed Black Moon If The Nox?
Hell yes I knew the Briar Armor would come up eventually it has everything.
Great video again my man, totally subscribed. I'd watch Zayf the Scholars vid on dominula village, I think it will further the connection you are making. He points out how the braids on the dancers in the village are the same as Marikas and how half have erdtree gold cape and half have the godskin blue cape. The village is also flowery and all female, referencing shaman village perhaps.
Some other things to note:
God slaying greatsword textures look a lot like Enir-Ilem.
Pillars of hornsent are similar to volcano manor but the ones below Eigle are spiraling in the opposite direction.
We see snakes with wings in volcano manor and it kinda seems like Eigle is stretched to resemble wings. DD being "Plucked" may be from the wings or something.
Some central pillars at Enir-Ilem although not spiralling look a lot like snake scales.
The gate of divinity in the trailer looks just like Rykards blasphemy.
The portrait in volcano manor where we fight Giza wheel npc has the same symbol on his mask as what are on the jar shaman blob people.
Tanith has a mask denoting a dancer that dance with "no seduction", and depicts a queen of a distant land. Totally referencing the DLC story trailer.
Also the masks seem to link to hornsent and dancers seem to link towards hornsent and shadowlands.
We see masks on the zamor, and their color palette is Enir-Ilem esque. They have feathers on their armor, they summon storms, they fought against the giants/against the fell god which seems to frighten or mock the hornsent. And they are very dancey in their moveset, way different than any other curved greatsword. Maybe hornsent and GEQ helped fight the fire giants with marika which is why it is seen as such a betrayal. "It is said queen marika slayed the fell god" but it was probably GEQ with her sword and then radagon dumped her non-butt (snakes dont have butts).
Lose connections: black flame tornado has a storm name, and hornsent deal with storms although fire seems to be amiss with them. Maybe that is the fire portion of storm that has been lost thanks to Marikas betrayel.
It is theorized that Radagon seduced GEQ, had the babies and betrayed her. On the Brick Hammer it says a champion started a rebellion against the giants. We see misbegotten outside 2 of the forges in the shadowlands. We know misbegotten are connected to Radagon. Might place him in the shadow land forges? One is near moorth ruins, right above bonny village. Just seeing possible links, nothing too crazy here.
Yupp
I cannot be the only one who still thinks the abductor virgins are modeled after Tannith.
She's already confirmed to claim one snake baby as her own. She and Rykard don't have any children together. If he's the patriarch of the manor and she's the matriarch then she fits the role of a surrogate mother. The abductor virgins are supposed to bring people to the manor, which is what Tannith is also trying to do. The Volcano manor is full of death and torture and assassins, there's plenty of reason for acquiring new members to be bittersweet thus the virgins crying.
That or I believe they are a reference to the literal thing that they are supposed to do. Bring people to the place where they will be fed to snakes. I mean they look like an artistic representation of a woman carrying a baby that is being chased and grabbed by snakes when they chase you. At least to me they do.
However I also highly suspect from past FromSoft titles that the virgins were completed before whatever associated story was scrapped. If the virgin was one of the earlier assets designed it's very possible the team either thought there were conflicts with other quests or cut the associated characters before dialogue was recorded. They could have even had a whole alternative story that they nixed but liked the design of the virgins so they found them a spot in the game. Making them cause too many plot holes in theory crafting, because they're an artifact of an entirely different story.
you right
I had to pause the video at 7:16 to say a couple of things (I really hope you get to read this and would be overjoyed if you could give me even a short answer):
- First of all, I absolutely love your videos and most of the theories you've come up with and the evidence you've uncovered to support them are simply amazing, I think you are one of the best content creators when it comes to ER lore and I do believe you are correct about almost every thing you've said, I particularly loved your Godwyn video explaning his "fish tail" which according to you is actually his dragon tail. Thank you so much for your contributions, I believe you deserve to have literally 100x more suscribers and viewers. (The GEQ and Godwyn are my favorite parts of ER lore)
- Secondly: I do think that Melina is almost guaranteed to be the daughter of the GEQ, this would make sense for several reasons: it would explain her gloam eye in the lord of frenzy ending, and would also explain why Marika would use her as kindling to burn the Erdtree the first time (I'm still very unsure of when or why the Erdtree was first burned as Tarnished Archeologist has theorized from the ashes in Leyndell and the fact that the Erdtree as we see it ingame is clearly in spirit form). Regarding Messmer, I think you may also be correct and that he may be the result of a union between Radagon and the GEQ, it would explain his red hair and his connection with snakes. As for Melina, I'm not sure who her father would be, but for some reason I don't believe it's Radagon, then again I may me mistaken.
Perhaps I should review Tarnished Archeologists videos to find out when and why the Erdtree was first burned (perhaps during the shattering?) but I would really love to hear your theory on the first burning of the Erdtree, perhaps it happened when the Scadutree was formed? I hope you find the time to read and give some insight about this matter! 😅
In any case, I want to thank you again for putting out such great content, I do believe you deserve to have at least as many suscribers and views as Vaati if not more, you've become one of my favorite content creators on this platform and I have watched all your videos, in fact, I watch them at night to help me fall asleep and they are one of the best cures I've found for my insomnia since I've quit using weed for that purpose.
I hope you keep making videos for a long time! And if you ever run out of content for Elden Ring lore, I'm sure you might have a lot to offer regarding other fromsoft games, I especially would love to see what you might uncover about Bloodborne lore, and if that ever happens, I must recommend that you check out Charred Thermos' videos about the parallels between Bloodborne and the history of autopsies and modern science.
Keep up the good work my parasocial friend, Much love from France💗
I believe the shattering happened long after the original great tree was burned, the erdtree was grown, and the golden order was founded.
Unless the erdtree strangled out the original great tree. In that case, Melina burned the physical erdtree and we only see what remains: a small part of a real tree around the door, the rest a golden illusion. But it’s also possible the erdtree’s influence fading over time is represented by the spectral version.
Based on the architecture of Leyndell, either it was built around the original great tree’s location prior to the erdtree’s inception, or built during the time of the erdtree. It has different architecture than the style of the ancient dynastic civilization (Elden John, stone coffins, all of the ruins in the base game)
Melina is the GEQ's daughter that Marika stole, hence the 'virgin abductor' but here's the twist. Melina is Marika and GEQ's child. Marika, the Gloam Eyed Queen and Radagon are a zyzygy of the Ego, the Id and a woman's Animus.
I'm almost nailing the final points in this theory but everything in the game points to it.
The TwinBirds and it's resemblance to the Caduceus and it's staff as a god itself are are a big key in this, they without a doubt represent Marika and GEQ. the church of Eiglay has tons of depictions of serpents with wings and talons facing eachother. Eiglay's skin is literally hung like a winged bird in it.
Watch this be the next DLC, fromsoft is not done yet. They're way too quiet and are still uploading regular Elden Ring content around weapons and armors.
DUDE I LOVE ELDEN RINGS LORE SO MUCH
I know. It's so intriguing.
It’s all madness, burn it all 🔥
everything said in this video is headcannon
Hiding that image under more geometry was super rude of Miya and his team lol. Great catch!
I think this guy cracked Elden rings story
Right on! I’ve long thought that black flame sigil was meant to resemble a uterus. This is the first time I see a content creator share that connection. A few other musings here:
- White can be symbolic of death in Eastern cultures (in contrast to black in the west). The Godskins prominently feature both, from their attire to their flame.
- White is also symbolic of innocence.
- Ying-Yang is not a reach for a potential symbolic allusion since the troubles escalate once Death is removed and an egregious imbalance established.
- Black might represent something like a void, or, the absence of Life.
- The Godskin Noble’s attire is not unlike the more commonly seen fertility fetishes of many cultures.
Exquisitely brilliant, darling. Absolutely unique and fucking hard earned. Thank you for the generous shout outs. You’re incredible!
LOVE YOU ALWAYS ❤❤❤
The woman on the Peeler looks like the dark statue in the church where your dead fingermaiden is at the Precipice of Anticipation. Same hooded appearance and flowing cloth at her front as well.
So the theory that Marika is literally the gloam eyed queen has been thrown around. and until this video I wasn't compelled. But that baby holding woman on the godskin peeler did it for me. So when its said that Malekith killed the Gloam eyed queen, what if that was just figurative? Or maybe even an outright lie? What if the Gloam eyed queen was Marika's old title when she eradicated the hornsent and their gods?
Here's the crackpot theory: Marika was a shaman. She wanted vengeance against the hornsent. She did something freaky with a snake god, which could be considered 'the seduction' from the trailer. Hence all the snake tie ins with the godskin apostles. The snake god was the true wielder of destined death, and bestowed this power onto her. She used her god slaying power to slay the old gods of the hornsent, hence the title of godslayer. She had a kid with the snake god. Messmer. Which is why he has so much snake symbolism.
When Marika was done killing the hornsent, she communed with the Greater Will using the gate of divinity. In this moment, she was given Malekith, a shadow of herself. This is the figurative 'killing' of the Gloam Eyed Queen, because the moment she accepted the Greater Will's blessing, she 'shed' the snake god's power. This could also be considered 'the betrayal.' When Malekith fought off whatever was left of the snake god, Marika took destined death and sealed it in Malekith.
In the following age, the reason why snakes and snake iconography became so taboo is because of what Marika did to ascend to godhood. She seduced an ancient snake god, used its power to become a god, and subsequently annihilated that snake god from both physical and historical memory. She took its primary power and sealed it away, and the idea of snakes became taboo for the entirety of the golden order.
This theory isn't watertight obviously. It assumes the snake god was the original wielder of destined death. Which could be true, given the primordial representation of snakes, but not confirmed in game. It also doesn't explain what Marika is pulling gold threads out of in the trailer, which I'm still stumped about. I could cope and say that is the snake, but its not super compelling. Lastly is this snake god existing at all, which by all means doesn't seem referenced solidly anywhere outside Messmer, and the volcano manor. If there was a snake god responsible for destined death, I think it would show a bit more prominently.
Smoughtown recently uploaded a short where he talks about a recent translation that says the godslayer seal depicts a palm manipulating the black flame.
Feel like a lot more lore details would be revealed if more creators would take more detailed looks at weapons and armor. There's a lot of detail there to be explored
I have much more to show ♡
@@ScumMageInfalet’s see it! 🥹
Totally agree on the Golden Seeds; I did mean the ones that grew the minor Erdtrees. As for the actual Erdtree there’s an argument as to whether the tree we see is real or not (I don’t remember who but one of the NPCs does hint at not being able to see it and then there’s there’s an item description that talks about the tree becoming just an object of faith rather than giving any blessings anymore.
On the length of time, we arrive a few centuries after the Shattering and there’s thousands of years of the reign of Marika in which no one’s really died properly for the vast majority of it since removing death from the equation. Although given the amount of genocides she ordered I think I’d be prepared to bet that the first burning would have taken place around the time of the Long Walk of the Tarnished and the elevation of Radagon to Elden Lord. Maybe the burning is why he was elevated; we create new Erdtrees in most of the endings after we burn the tree ourselves.
I’m pretty confident that Eiglay is the GEQ. The obsession with the gods and the snake motif can’t be ignored. Though I’m not sure if she’s a part of Markia, a sibling, or just happens to be another shaman empyrean. I also believe Messmer is her child, stolen away by Markia. Messmer not only looks like a godskin, but he has the snake motif and flames which can utterly destroy you, both body and soul.
Edit: There’s also a chance she might have been the god before Marika, though this is speculation based on the dlc trailer.
3:51 looks more like her left hand is clutching the end of the cloth, wrapping it around her back and over her right elbow to then drape down.
Could the connection between Flame and Snakes be further enchanced by the temptation on the Black Flame Monks?
Just seems more than just a coincidence with this theory.
Amazing video as well! loved the discovery!
Geq is literally just marika fused into the devouring serpent, the serpent's skin is in front of bonney village, indicating marika assimilated into a snake to escape being stuffed in a jar, the serpent has grown since then, I'd go as far as saying this form of marika is the fled consort of placidusax as soon as malekith burned her
Snake + Fire = Dragon
Dragons are the symbol of divinity, and Marika the mortal stole divinity from her
Pale Snake in a coil = Moon
Fire = Sun
Radagon is the sun, and Rennala the moon; their convergence in the Eclipse is subdued in perpetuity by Miquella and Radahn.
Though Radagon abandoned Rennala to become Elden Lord, she is still converged with him. His sun is the egg, and they are Mother and Child.
the texture on the godskin peeler also kinda looks like Venus in "The Birth of Venus" painting, with both the posture and the way the cloth is wrapped around her
edit: also incredible video my guy!! had chills when you brought in Messmer and Melina as the snake and fire aspects of GEQ, i've always kinda assumed they were more related to eachother (like how Malenia and Miquella are a set), and the neat tie-in of them both being kept secret and how they are two "halves" of GEQ really made it click for me!
I WAS TRYING SO HARD TO REMEMBER what that image was LOL
I kept thinking Aphrodite but I couldn't find the damn depiction of her on the shell holding her hair, that is BC IT WAS VENNUSSSSS
BLESS you
Credited in pinned comment
@@ScumMageInfa
my man this is why i subed u really pushing this communities understanding forward I was alwasys SICKEMED by ppl saying melina was the geq like damn shut those ppl up already
if marika and the GEQ were sisters the whole "betrayal" in the trailer would make alot of sense
edit: Just thought of this, but Marika seduces the hornsent to teach her the ritual of godhood and then betrays her (possible) sister for the golden threads
This is the idea im getting the most
When the story trailer dropped I was in the camp who speculated that Messmer was Son of Radagon and Gloam Eyed Queen
It also reminds me of the new catacombs sorcerers, seemingly buried with an infant form hanging from their breast
Brooo this is the best theory on the GEQ ever. I never noticed the room where Melina was held
Damn, another banger of a video. Good job!
Go to the top of the suppressing pillar and wait till night, when it gets dark, sometimes the sky will turn a deep vivid purple
Dude, how come I never saw this woman at the godskin peeler?!
I'm such a GEQ enthusiast! Amazing connections!
The one with Metyr messes with my brain though, never thought about it.
You're killing it, I'm so invested.
One thing I think is inverted, the abductor virgin looks more like the GEQ's depiction, so the name itself come be a reference to her, she could be virgin and abduct newborns to raise as her godskin warriors, and the baby on the Abductor Virgin could be a depiction of the kidnapped newborns.
It really amuses me how intricate the lore to this game is, like how much time was put into this game’s lore
Commenting just to appreciate ALL the effort put into this game, every texture, every mechanic, every animation, every piece of lore, this game truly deserved GOTY 🙏🏽🙏🏽
I think this puts a few pieces into place as to why Marika fearfully Plucked & sealed Messmer's eyes( and him away), she saw the base serpent and recognized from her past with the Gloam Eyed Queen, if pale snakes are associated with the GEQ then I don't think it's an unreasonable connection at all; and maybe the secret seduction and betrayal was marikas (through Radagon) of the GEQ sicking Malekith on her at the gate of ascension for the holy thread or whatever.
also doesn't the flavour text for seluvis's evil potion ingredient say it was the drink of gods, was Radagon Marikas puppet?
very cool!! the geq symbol also looks a lot like the aztec symbol for the moon, also related to coatlique, death, and birth. Not a lot of people interested in the mesoamerica refrences in elden but they're there!
There are multiple items that specifically state Marika to be Messmer's mother so I really don't think it's GEQ's kid.
The snake outside the village where they brought the shamans is the one in the trailer. I like to believe that is the GEQ.
Yo, since you're zooming in on textures I had a texture puzzle that might be relevant to what you're talking about here.
Check out the underside of the preceptor's helm, notice that the stars are very stylized and almost look like masses of tentacles of snakes. Then the God-skin apostle's helm, and just the helm by itself, has this long flap of skin hanging off of the back and at the bottom potion of the skin is a similar writhing-mass design. I suppose the writhing mass could be a mass of fingers or Metyr or snake ball or something like the Fell God visage that's on the fire golem.
Ok, hear me out.
What if the thing/snake that marika pulls the golden strings out of is in fact a freshly shed Eiglay/God-devouring serpent (thats why the skin is to soft and white, though no signs of scales).
Regardless of whether this is true, Eiglay was probably allied with GEQ at that time (Eiglay shed skin in Bonny Village and therefore was probably present before Marika became a god)
If Eiglay died at that time, it would explain why Rykard has to hatch the God-devouring serpent first before he lets it eat him. (see Intro Cutscene, where Eiglay is way smaller than the shed skin in Bonny Village)
And it would also explain why Rykard seemingly knows so much about the GEQ and Marika (even though he was born way later) and why he designed the "Abductor Virgins" the way he did.
"A serpent never dies."
It could also be that the God-devouring serpent we know is a reincarnation of GEQ but I think that streches it too far?
I do like the idea that Melina is a daughter of the gloam eyed queen a bit better than her being the queen herself and that her and Messmer were “adopted” by Marika.
Issue: "The problem with Gloam eyed Queen being Messmer's Mother, is how did she had a son with Radagon? because Radagon's motiff in Messmer's OST, Red Hair, etc makes it OBVIOUS that Radagon was his Father"
Solution: So answer to this would be Radagon inseminating Eiglay's (GEQ's) Egg. Emulated by Rykard producing Rya. Also we have to know that Rkyard is more than likely intimately aware of Marika's relationship with snakes and the GEQ.
Issue: "But Messmer refers to Marika as Mother"
Solution: This can be true if Messmer was orphaned and was raised by Marika and Radagon. (say if the GEQ was slain)
Issue: "What about Melina being the GEQ?"
Solution: You know who else thinks of Marika as mother? Melina, however we know she's basically GEQ reincarnate so she could be conceived by GEQ's human form.... *Enters* Abductor Virgins? Commissioned by Rykard the baby is meant to resemble Melina being swaddled by the GEQ. (Not baby Messmer as I believe he is said to have been born with winged serpents attached..) Marika stole Melina and locked her away (where we find the blade of calling). So we see a mournful representation of GEQ holding a baby. The abduction mechanism transports people to the volcano manor as sacrifices but perhaps a secondary reason would be to find GEQ's missing child.
It never occured to me that she is depicted on the Peeler, zamn. Also very interesting theory about her being Marika's sibling, I can't believe I haven't heard that theory before
What i think people ignore too much when making theories involving parentage is that people are born out of trees and flowers with attributes that had been put back into the tree, like how DNA isn't making a blend of two people, but a combination with different segments of dna from two people's ancestors. It's akin to some ideas of reincarnation where certain attributes are reincarnated, but not the full embodiment of the reincarnated.
Demigods having "parents" is just who raises them and what they're told. Marika takes the children of ALL and then puts them in the places/castes she wants to serve her planned order.
I think that's why the snake mother was a blasphemer. Procreation went against the Erdtree.
This is talked about in Remembrances, shown in artwork/architecture, and demonstrated through Malenia's buds.
Great video dude
Uterus... Two finger... Three fingers is madness... It all makes sense.
5:33 I've been saying this since the story trailer but the Strands that Marika pulls from the wound/womb looks like infants hair
There are also enemies in the shadowland catacombs called PUTRESCENT sorcerers who also have babies cradled against their chest
Maybe the Hornsent was trying to make a new Gloam-Eyed Queen when they made Marika. Kind of like the Frankenstein story, the monster started to do violent things on its own.
Marika absorbed the GEQ into herself after Maliketh defeated her.
I don't know if anyone else has looked into this, but there is some very interesting hanging ornamentation on the Godskin Apostle headpiece. They look like eggs nestled in tentacles.
The GEQ is actually Kales mule at the church of Elleh. Oh & also Torrents left hoof is also the gloam eyed queen.
Amazing video yo. If you look at the briar greatshield, the woman on it looks like she is dancing to evoke flames that burn undead, with ash falling onto growing flowers. I think the flowers are symbolic of her children, it reminds me of the ghost and grave flowers that have spirits in or near them. I almost forgot to say the wear and tear of the shield is what looks like falling ash.
Iv'e always felt like Marika was the GEQ, but I've been going down the fallen sun rabbit hole, and its deep, but what I cant unsee, is Marika's sorseal, Midras incantation pose, and the rapture emote you get from the 2 finger(I think). That and I just cant find sun, for praise the sun, in messages. I left a praise the bright spot, but its just not the same man
Messmer is Mericas adopted son, which is why she so easily abandoned him. The Gloam Eyed Queen is his real mother.
Tbf, she really easily abandoned Morgott and Mogh, who are hers'. The throughline connecting the Omen twins and Messmer (regarding their abandonment by their mother) is being born cursed. Frankly, I wonder if Marika was crucified before she could exile Miquella and Malenia, too!
He even CORRECTS himself after you beat him. Saying "Mother..." But then correcting himself and saying her name, "Marika, a curse upon thee."
Why would he curse her? Unless he realized she wasn't his true mother, because Eiglay was. He's also resistant to Black Flame. A resistance nothing in the main game has, and it's because it was his mother's flame.
@@DreamersOfReality of course she abandoned her hornsent children. They were everything she tried to destroy. A world without horns is what she desired
Least expected a PoE mention in an Elden Ring vid
since the DLC I've had a hunch some of the devs may have played PoE, think it was some ability/spell that immediately reminded me of a PoE mechanic (I don't remember what exactly atm, but the feeling was there)
Gloam Eyed Queen reminds me a lot ov Al - Uzza. One ov the progeniting mothers to Djinn.
I like where this is going, but I still think there's still a bit more of something to this. This mainly has to do with how the Forge of the Giants has a thing for turning watchers into worshippers. Something I wondered is if the design of the serpents on it could be relation to the early map designs of the game like how we'd see sea monster depictions on it without seeing these monsters in game. But I've wondered that could be in someway part of Melina's becoming in fate.
The fact that when their seals of Grace are removed reveals black hair seems to also lead some visual credence to the parentage. The Gloam Eye Queen in 1.00 is called the Black Haired Queen. Pure Coincidence.
I’ve always thought the giants forge looked like a giant lords vessel.
Wow, another interesting perspective of the Gloam Eyed Queen. Past theories.
She is Melina,
She is Marika
She is a child of Marika
And now she is the Sister of Marika
Gosh i love your videos ❤
Excellent theory as usual. I like it very much Sir.
10 minutes went fly by like 2 minute video😭😭😭😭 WE WANT MORE
Got a big one dropping in hopefully a few days ♡
I believe the cinematic we see at the gate of divinity is her skinning/betraying the Hornsent GEQ then skinning herself of this dark aspect.
All representative of Marika’s frequent splitting of light (sacred relic sword) and dark (Godslayer Greatsword) by sealing death! Look at the tree where you get Marika’s braid, the stone sheath sword, Godslayer gs, and sacred relic sword. She spilt her dark aspect (gloam eyed queen/abyssal serpent) at the gate of divinity. Splitting the dark tree branch from the light tree or great tree. Then the light erdtree branched between causality and regression
I think Marika’s “seduction and betrayal” was of the GEQ, done in her guise as Radagon, similar to her conquest of Raya Lucaria through the seduction and betrayal of Rennala. I like the idea of Marika yet again playing a cuckoo here and stealing the offspring of her rival-perhaps though she fathered Messmer and Melina, as Radagon, with the GEQ. It explains all of their traits nicely, and would be a union of Fire and Death. I think all of Marika’s big conquests play out this way, and that she did something similar to the giants as well-that conquest might’ve led to the formation of the Radagon persona to begin with. I think that all the shaping and splitting of the Elden Ring itself happens through marriages (to fuse) and births (to split): the Elden Ring isn’t just inside Marika, it’s inside her whole family TREE
the flightless bird... ok that makes sense now. interesting.
Maliketh defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen. The Godslayer Greatsword description says as much.
My theory is that when Marika made her wish and offered her braid, she was really making an exchange with the serpent.
I believe the godskin cloth in the trailer was the very first godskin, and I think it was born incestually between Melina and Messmer. This could also be a baby Messmer wearing the cloth of an actual god, and could be that Messmer and Melina later led the godskin regime, or maybe Melina just took his "ssspecs" to create them herself. It could also be that the godskins came from an alliance between the GEQ and the god-devouring serpent.
Anyways, just like Ranni, Melina is also burned and bodiless BUT she doesn't know why. I believe Melina was involved in a death ritual that she wasn't even aware of, I believe she is daedricar.
The traits of the serpent on Elden ring are: it's diet determines its features, and its hunger is endless. Which represent immortality and rebirth very well. The godskins I believe are more snake-minded, and have the same endless hunger. At the end of Melina's conquest, I think the godskins turned out to be not loyal and only motivated by the prospect of God Slaying, resulting in Melina suffering daedricar's fate
Finally someone brave enough to say it (about the briar set :) ) Btw it looks like there are 3 faces happy, mad, natural..
The fact that there are no Godskins in shadowlands, there is Mesmer in shadowlands suggests that either Melina is GEQ and was born after banishing the shadowlands or that the real mother of Mesmer is GEQ being the reason he is spared by the Godskins.
Idk how you come up with those two scenarios based on your “fact”.
why arent there godskins in the land of shadow? Ranni's corpse is enough to attract them
Godwyn must have died before the removal of the lands of shadow because of the death knights and no minor erd-trees so it probably goes godwyn->removal->shattering
The snake flail found in the dlc connects the dots with fire 🔥 🎉
Why do we start at the chapel of anticipation. And our maiden is dead.
Since Marika is big on biblical imagery, the Hebrew word for “serpent” is seraph, and it can also be translated as “burning.”
Huge findings!
This suddenly got me thinking that Marika was the GEQ and secretly led a resistance against the Hornsent who were torturing her people. She became guided by the Mother of Fingers (hence the symbol) yet at some point learned of a path to godhood (possibly from the snake) and betrayed her followers, ditched the moniker, and became known as Marika the eternal; hiding the power she once welded in her daughter Melina.
Speaking of Melina, I wonder if, earlier, she possibly commanded the Black Knife Assassins in support of her mother; considering the all female Numen connection and Melina's weapon choice.
One thing about the DLC is that it leaves a large gap between the Shaman lore and Queen Marika the Eternal and is vague about how she pulled it off, so I'm kinda grasping at straws to fill in a blank.
I don't know that anyone mentioned but the two mortal blade's flame in Sekiro is the same color as the black flame and destined death.
Very tempting to consider but I'd say it's more the baby is Godwyn, only uncursed normal child that's apart of Marika's family as all of Marika's kids are cursed.
Gloam eyed queen is Marika before being put into the jar after getting defeated by Maliketh
Tbh knowing Fromsoft lore and that Martin mostly wrote the history, not neccessarily the current game;
I beleive the GEQ is a person we don't know, isn't related too the other gods, and isn't related to the other Empyreans.
I do think Melina is linked to the GEQ. But I don't think she is, unlike a lot of people.
I don't think we have to connect every character. But I DO love your theories and these connections ARE good.
A thought I had while watching your video, but not really substantiated by anything other than speculation: maybe the Gloam Eyed Queen isn't a sibling to Marika but instead an aspect? Similar to how Miquella and St. Trina were one and the same but had different manifestations across the Lands Between. A parallel situation between Miquella and Radahn (Miquella abandoning St. Trina for Radahn) could've occurred with Marika abandoning the GEQ for Radagon, except Marika abandoned her right at the Gate of Divinity and that's what we're seeing in the trailer? Messmer and Melina could've been the children of Marika/GEQ and Radagon before they were split. The implication of Melina's words ("Thou’rt yet to become me. Thou’rt yet to become a God") in Marika's bedchamber hints that they have not always been the same being so maybe when she abandoned the GEQ, she took it a step further and made Radagon into her other half.
EDIT: made this comment before looking at your other stuff and seeing you had a similar theory!! going to binge all your stuff now.