is love a social construct?
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- Опубліковано 14 тра 2024
- romantic love is such a powerful force in people's lives. but where does it come from? do our brains naturally crave love or is romance fed to us by social norms and culture?
✧･ﾟ: ✧･ﾟ: i'd love to hear what you all have to say *:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ✧
TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 intro
7:22 part 1: pure biology
15:16 part 2: social construction
24:49 part 3: dual love
31:14 politicization of love
★・・・・・★・・・・・★
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[ ! ] sammie (they/them) @purplewyvern4015
[ ! ] abel (he/him)
[ ! ] alex (he/him)
[ ! ] bruno (he/him)
thanks @Shanspeare for being the doctor to my 19th century lesbian
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EDITOR:
youtube: @pishifat and twitter: / pishifat
★・・・・・★・・・・・★
SOURCES:
Fisher, H. 2005. Why We Love: The Nature and Chemistry of Romantic Love.
Jenkins, C. 2017. What Love is: and What It Could Be.
Beall, A. E., & Sternberg, R. J. 1995. "The Social Construction of Love." DOI:10.1177/0265407595123006
Joel Haver. "Pretend That You Love Me." • Pretend That You Love Me
Oseman, A. 2020. Loveless.
TIffany, K. 2022. "The Woman Who Made Online Dating into a Science." www.theatlantic.com/technolog...
MUSIC:
Charles Mayer - Chanson Sentimentale
Déodat de Séverac - Valse Romantique
Albéniz - Barcarola, Op.23
Martin Landström - The High Point
Sergei Bortkiewicz - Nocturne (Diana), Op.24
Sergei Bortkiewicz - Valse 'La mélancolique', Op.27
tags: all about love bell hooks, love, romantic, romance, couple goals, relationship advice, cute relationship, rom-com, eric fromm, asexuality, ace, aromantic, aro, aroce, helen fisher, wired answers your questions on love, carrie jenkins, anatonormativity, feminism, feminist, social commentary, internet analysis, video essay, analysis video, philosophy, movie film tv show, tiktok, shanspeare, jordan theresa, cj the x, tiffany ferg, alice cappelle, contrapoints, philosophy tube, madisyn brown, chad chad, sisyphus 55, tara mooknee, beauty standards, choice feminism
I LOVED THIS VIDEO. Just a small footnote as an asexual person, asexual people may or may not engage in sexual activities. Being sexual doesn't mean that you'll dislike for sex or lack or have little libido. Even when some asexual do so, the core of asexuality is the lack of sexual attraction. In other words, sexuality is not about action but attraction. Hence, why we consider asexuality a sexual orientation.
That's all, love the video. I'm very happy to see the aroace community represented in this subject since we are typically excluded from these topics. Thank you ✨
^ super important clarification, my fault for misspeaking!
Umm, how can you engage in sexual activities and be asexual at the same time? Since you have to be attracted to sex in order to (continiously) do it (with consent of course).
@@xhevahire asexual people dont see/arent attracted s*xually to a person. its not the same as being attracted to s*x, the act itself
So u can be asexual and have libido?
@@xhevahire The attraction isn't to sex but to a person. Even when asexuals don't feel sexual attraction towards people thay can still engage in sexual activities. There are asexuals who are sex-positive and actually enjoy practicing sexual activities. Other asexuals are sex-neutral or sex-negative, who either feel indifferent towards sex or dislike it. However this is an action towards sex, not attraction. Since asexuality is about attraction not action you can participate in sexual activities while being asexual. That's because you can engage in sexual activities with people which you aren't necessarily sexually attracted to. A metaphor that I think is useful to understand it is that you can e your favourite meal while not being hungry. The hunger is the attraction, eating is the action. It can go, or not, hand in hand.
Also we got to bare in mind that asexuality is an spectrum, hence, some people that identify themselves in the asexual umbrella can feel sexual attraction but to a lesser extent than allosexuals.
oliSUNvia: what is love?
me: baby don’t hurt me
I was thinking of Twice what is love but this works to 😂
No more
I love this song
Great now I had to pause the video to listen to Haddaway first.. song was so ahead of its time
@Rhythm gero you don't deserve my love and attention for this...but dogdamn, do I ever wanna give it to you 😩💖
The thing I'm most scared about is how long people can love each other in a romantic relationship. How can two people be together for like 30 years and then start hating each other and get a divorce... I don't think I could handle something like that... I'm very afraid of spending a lot of time with someone and that person just gets tired of me...
There are two possibilities here. Either, they were confused or deluded themselves abou their feeling. That's what my sister and brother in law did. They tried to convince themselves and us that they actually loved each other even though it was apparent that they only formed a relationship because it was beneficial to them.
The second case would be that the feelings dwindled over time. In my country we say that you have to work on your relationships. And I think that's ture. It's easy to fall in love and harbor romantic feeling when you are still very young because you can be carefree about it, no stress, no obligations, no responsibility. Once you become an adult you generally have less time for relationships because of work etc. Lif gets more stressfull and you might not have as much time to think about love due to other worries. And I think that's the moment your love truly gets tested.
My grandparents were one of the few people who made it to golden anniversary. They often felt business like and weren't always super affectionate but you could tell that they genuinly loved each other. The romantic phase decreased after a while, that's normal. But my grandparents never seemed to have trouble maintaining their relationship. Like the vow said, they sticked with each other through good and bad times. The thought of divorce never crossed their mind like most women nowadays would do immediately when the going gets tough. If you have to put all your time and effort into maintaining your relationship, then it in my opinion isn't true love.
Not surprising, most people get confused about what they are actually feeling. It might simply have been attraction, regardless of wether it's physical or emotional attraction. But these kind of superficial emotions won't last forever. And people also change over time. The main problem though is, that people for a very long time have been raised to not care about love anymore. Especially women. So even if they were to find true love, they either don't form a relationship or simply break up when some minor problems occure. Because they have been taught to put their priorities elsewhere.
Honestly, that's why i value the first part of the video more; I get that a lot of people experience love in various ways and the idea that love is a social construct helps them; but if you find yourself in the position of the cis-heteronormative person, it's not like the biological side of love just disappears once you agree with it being a social construct.
I'm planning on reading more from dr. Fisher because it's refreshing to see the purely neurotransmitter side of love by a person who seems to still cherish love. The value of this women's work doesn't lie in her dated beliefs regarding heteronormativity, but in the fact that she has the courage to look at love through a very cold lens. Which, I think, if you want to avoid the scenario you just described, you need to also be aware of that part of love which resembles drug addiction more than anything.
@@pandaman1331 The way our society views marriage has shifted. Every time i ask someone if they want to get married some day, they always talk about the wedding not about actually being married.
you needs to provide, your other half needs to provide, one of you provides masculinity one of you provides femininity thats how you maintain a healthy marriage till you die
@@quicknoodle6220 I'm gay
The feeling of love/affection is definitely biological but social norms dictate how we describe it.
Well put!
I’m a straight cis white man...my wife is black. When you said at the end “love someone of a different race,” I realized that my feelings that feel so normal to me were once viewed the way folks who are currently vying for acceptance are feeling right now. Yeah that was a helpful moment to remember how much we have accomplished as society and how we need to go further for people to be able to live their lives
WOOOOOOAH THERE DUNCE! Don't confuse things you're with somebody you like, you're walking into disaster when you start making weird comparisons like degeneracy and the darkie in your bed.
You make me sick, to commodify your relationship like that for virtue points. I hope she dumps you homie.
you're a normal white man*
Comments like this make my day a little bit better :)
alright. have your cookie. you virtue-signaled successfully for today.
Don't use the word Cis. You are a straight White man.
People are bad at describing love because they often times spend too much time not in love. If you love more, without fear of loss, it will become less foreign to you. But we fear the vulnerability that comes with love and thus end up avoiding it altogether because feelings of affection are weapons that hurt the most when used against you
@@samuelboczek1834 I wouldn't disagree, my point is to not be a stranger to love
@@samiatiq7879 Do you know the rules? So do I
@@maxime2320 A full commitment's what I'm thinking of.
You wouldn't get this from any other guy
@@joanapitanguinha150 I~ just wanna tell you how Im feelin
I feel like most people enter relationships to avoid being alone more often than out of 'love '. I feel like most relationships are selfish, but when you see people actively caring for each other, making micro gestures of affection not meant for anyone else but them, those things speak louder than anything else.
Nearly every family gathering they ask me if i have partner. What? Why not? i look so pretty and grown up that i have to seek someone. what has beauty to do with that?? And why should i seek? I want to be happy on my own and when i meet someone i like its a nice add-on. Everybody feels incomplete and hopes a partner could save them from sth
exactly
@@a.personofficial Your feeling was never a choice but a product of many different factors. Perhaps you only make choices when you are left with no other choice...aka reaching an age where you must have children or have none at all.
I never got into relationship for love.
Never loved anybody, but netflix and chill with someone is fun tho.
most do it because of sex
As a fellow Aro, I just want to say thank you for letting aromantics express how they feel on this topic. Kinda feels like we’re sidelined most of the time and not really a valid community.
Ok but...what kind of ‘validation’ do you want?
@@HkFinn83 the kind of validation that would leave you saying 'cool!' instead of putting 'validation' in passive-aggressive air quotes.
@@otaku-chan4888 well you’re not getting that, stop asking.
@@HkFinn83why’s it so necessary for you to act like an asshole?
I'm now on am active crusade to validate every aromantic person I ever will see, I credit your hateful mentality for every person I now lift up, your negativity will bring the people you hate happiness for years. Cry about it bigot.
I am a straight cis man and get "lazy husband" TikToks, probably because I have kids so watch some parenting/kid related stuff. I always feel like I'm witnessing a divorce in progress, and the comments aren't much better. However it could be showing that someone you love isn't always the partner you actually want for the long term. Ideally they would be, but there's no rule that says the person that makes your heart race will be a good parent or someone you can rely on to help you clean the house or capable of making wise financial decisions. There's a lot to factor into long term romantic happiness that isn't just butterflies in the stomach or sexual desire.
i totally agree
well then those "butterflies" may be due to ignorance
I saw these two girls on tiktok, they were life partners, lived together, and planned their finances anf futures around each other. However, they were purely platonic, and both have their own love lives.
@@janibii_608
based tbh
@@3u-n3ma_r1-c0 That's not based, it's the opposite in fact.
"Familiarity makes it so easy to mistake culture for nature". That's the most profound thing I've heard in a long time 💜
I need to know whose quote is that-
I'm going to become a scientist to delete the term 'social construct' just to spite you
@@mmmmmmkatata You also have to be honest and have good evidence for your claims, which I suppose would not work out for you.
@@mmmmmmkatata I listened to Helen. She was lovely. Listening to the leftists on the other hand is like claws on a chalk board.
@@mmmmmmkatata You should probably reconsider the team you're playing on. 'Social constructs' are pseudo science. We can analyse behavior without needing to push a political criticism of society every time.
Glad she brought up polyamory - and that love is BOTH biological and sociological - I think it's pretty rare that people feel just one or the other
you're literally just a porn addict and/or you like getting cucked
Glorified cuckery
What the fuck is wrong with you people?
As someone who's been pretty happily married for over a decade now. Romantic love in the long term is a lot like familial love, with a mix of those hot hormones mixed in from time to time. Before I started a family and was young like you, I wouldn't have understood it even with a scientific explanation. Much like you've done here. I see my wife, as I see the rest of my immediate family, with one tweak. I'm attracted to her.
It's not the same as the "love" I felt for a girlfriend in my youth. That felt more like a friend, who I was attracted to. This is much deeper than that. A constant humm in the background rather than passionate chaos. Like I said. The same way you love your family. The peace it brings so far is not something I found while single or even dating, and because of that, Love is highly underrated in my opinion.
You should try it.
This seems sad though
@@thankunext5602i know, like loving your partner the same way as family
Surveys show that, in general across most cultures, love transitions from passionate to companionate over the course of time (decades). This may just be the natural way partnership work for humans, and it’s a change that’s typically so slow that it’s likely harder to notice and easier to accept
i just wanna add that family doesn't mean blood relation. it does in some cases, but i doubt everyone feels about their blood family the way you feel about your wife.
in any way, the progression from passion to intimacy gives this feeling.
I agree, love awesome, it takes a lot of effort, work and pain, but is worth it
Me: has fallen in love again with someone just recently
OliSUNvia: Is LoVe a SoCiAl CoNsTrUcT?
LMAO i'm sorry for being a party pooper
same happened to me
@@oliSUNvia partner pooper
Happy for ya, have fun 😊
*construct
As an asexual who is also a hopeless romantic, I have so many mixed feelings about this. I don't have a sex drive, I don't feel sexual attraction and I'm childfree, but the thing I want the most in life is to have lifelong partner to spend my forever with.
ohmygod i feel you 😭 it feels suffocating having to explain what it is over and over again for potential partners and then driving them away :') hopefully we get a lifelong partner that understands and accepts us either way 😭
I feel exactly the same
omg i relate to it
I'm not asexual but that is very much normal and I understand where your concern comes from. I have a sex drive but I question whether I actually am capable of experiencing love if I can find them sexually attractive since if I do, wouldn't that just mean I'm looking for someone to have babies with instead of actually loving then for who they are? Thoughts like these are not necessarily wrong, but they're not right either. I refuse to look at love in only the romantic way, I love my close friends and they're the world to me. I believe that being asexual is amazing because you can form a true bond with your partner faster than us who have a sex drive. Cuddles and kisses are more enjoyable than sex in many situations, and while some people try to bond through physical intimacy, you bond through friendship. I find that so pure and lovely
As a fellow ace yepppp
as a disabled person, this video is helpful in demonstrating how people feel about disabled people entering romantic relationships. all the time i hear people tell me and my disabled friends, "isn't he dating you for your money?... but you can't have children... but you are biologically lesser value to have a family with... can you even take care of your house?... you don't even look normal. your partner can do better than that. he's just using you for your neediness... disabled people can't be good partners. they aren't physically worth taking care of... marrying someone as a disabled person is abusive... what is he in it for?"
it's contingent on a lot of issues, including misogyny and ableism right off the bat.
the fuc? thos are not your freinds lonewy woman
If I was born without legs I would not want to bring suffering to another creature in this planet by having no legs.
@@thegnarledpirate9198 this makes no sense. why does having no legs = suffering? there are people who have no legs who have become doctors, olympic athletes, hiked mt. everest, owned a business, became a celebrity, rich, etc.. there are people WITH legs that do less than those people do
@@stxrryd "why does having no legs = suffering?" it's because our society isn't perfect. People without legs might go on to accomplish much more than people with legs do, but it's never without more effort. Our world is built around accommodating the majority: and in most cases the majority is the unoppressed, privileged, "normal" people with no disabilities or preferences that require explaining to society. How many places can you name where it'd be easier to live without legs, than with legs? There you go.
"suffering" doesn't really mean torture here. It means having to live a life knowing that you "could" have been happier, had to have worked less hard, found the world a more comfortable place... if only you had legs. This is a permanent, unavoidable thought that will stay with someone who doesn't have legs from birth to death.
Now, is it the end of the world? No, of course not! But it's depressing nonetheless to consider bringing someone who didn't be ask to be born in the first place into the world- minus a "feature" that will make the world harder to navigate for as long as they live. You will never truly know for yourself how a person will deal with (being proud / making peace with) having to suffer through the experience of not being 'normal' unless you are that person themselves.
@@stxrrydwhy do you pretend to have right to make babies with disabilities for genetics reasons why people can't have sex with their parents or brothers for the same reasons?
as an aromantic person, i was so ready to go into this video and be briefly mentioned once or twice, if not excluded entirely from the conversation. even among queer conversation, discussions on how we define love, and the relationships between sex and love, we are forgotten and drowned out.
the fact that you included aromantic people's voices and experiences, and not only that aromantic ALLOSEXUAL people (which i am, and feel utterly invisible much of the time), was a deep breath of fresh, fresh air.
words can't express how seen this video made me feel.
Is there any distinction between a platonic friendship and being with a aromatic person?
the idea of romantic love has always been off to me because growing up, my parents never acted like they were in love the same way that movies, books, and even my friend's parents looked. it felt like they came together to be parents, not to be lovers. so because of all that, love to me has always meant all forms of it. familial, platonic, romantic, sexual, all of it to me encompasses love, and all of them give me the same happiness. I've cried when my mother or my friends wouldn't call me or stopped talking to me. me and my best friend in elementary school always wanted to be family, and had a pact that if we weren't married we would start our own. I've wanted to be with someone sexually but not date them, and I've wanted to date someone but not sleep with them. it's always made sense to me that love doesn't just mean romance, and I've always valued all factors of it highly. so when people were baffled at me not dating for the majority of high school and asking if I was lonely, it confused me because why would I be? I have my friends, I have my family, I have people that I love. if someone else comes in, then that's just another person to love.
Very well said!
Are you looking to be a parent in the future or u already are? Asking cuz your background seems familiar to mine and I personaly would like to have a kid but I’m kinda confused about lovelydovely relationship stuff (If u get What I mean.) also I would like to add that I’ve never been in a long time relationship, 4 months was max 😂
I relate to this!
Somehow in school (it's not called high school here where I live) somehow this idea that boys should be the only thing on a girls mind, and the thing that would bring them the most happiness had me fooled for some time. I am glad you were already sure of yourself and what made you happy despite what is expected societally.
Aww, the way you describe it is just so wholesome. It makes me feel happy with only the concept of love, thinking about all the forms it can take
while i certainly believe the modern construction of love has influenced both me and the ones around me- i still believe love truly does exist. yet it remains a phenomenon of humanity. the feeling of loving someone is indescribable- it’s borderline euphoric. so while many want to box in love- it still remains one of the things i believe will remain forever unknown. for the aroace community- there is certainly something to the fact that they are simply different from the socially constructed norm. having a sister who is aroace has allowed me to build some perspective as to how she feels about people she’s fascinated with. the way i feel love, when it comes to romantic relationships, is extremely different from how she would describe her idea of “attraction.” i think it would be wrong to label love as non-existent, simply because the feeling of loving someone in a romantic relationship is something that is reckless, chaotic, and indescribable. and so, even though the modern “view” of love may be socially-constructed, it does not make it any less valid.
I wouldn't say it's indescribable. Especially when you immediately followed that quote with a description: "borderline euphoric". lol It is merely just too unique from person to person. Therefore, I would say a broad description is unattainable. Individuals could theoretically describe "the feeling of loving someone" and you wouldn't be able to tell them that they were wrong as you are not them.
@@josephcarreon2341 I'd absolutely say its indescribable. I'm in love for the first time and of course there are terms to try and describe all the feelings, like euphoria, butterflies, fireworks, etc. But none of it comes close to the actual feeling.
You all have interesting points, but I would say it has a definition. It has a definition because it is not something (for example you don't actively try to make someone suffer for no reason other than your enjoyment. That is not love.) But that the definition is much too broad to have a workable definition.
Grant 138, oliSUNvia just made a whole video(which is up above) about how love could be/is a social construction. So it isn't too far fetched to say that it is, so far, solely human. ( at least in the modern view of love. but I don't know what view you are taking or would take.)
I totally agree with this! My sister is aroace as well but love is still an integral part of her life. Her love for her family as well as her love for the environment and the animals around her is really what drives her. I think personally we need to decenter romantic love in our lives because there are so many ways to love and I don't think we should just restrict ourselves to one particular kind of love
@@etta5487 Perhaps it's indescribable for you. But to say no one else can describe their feeling of loving someone is downright wrong. For some, euphoria, butterflies, fireworks, etc. are the perfect words.
Also, language is always evolving. The word to describe your feeling of loving someone might one day be invented. Maybe even by yourself.
I don't think "deviant" and "unnatural" are the same thing. I'm aromantic and I do consider this to be a deviance from the standard, I just don't think there is anything inherently wrong with it
Deviation is essential to the natural order. Being different is basically the most natural thing.✌
by definition, being queer is a deviation from the norm sexuality. Im not sure why she wanted to paint this point as ridiculous. theres no moral claim there in the slightest. a proffesional athlete is also a deviation from the normal physique of a human, that doesnt really say anything else about the thing.
I don't think unnatural means inherently wrong either. Humans do a lot of things that don't appear in nature but I don't think that's wrong in any way
bro you kids have no idea how to even decribve yourself cause you make up random pronouns from social websites
@@TimeattackGD shes literally making problems and random jsutication where there never needed to be.. like a random feminist yelling" I DONT OWE U ANYTHIN".. when no one fucking said a word....
I feel like media usually tries to show a "perfect" (and thus, impossible) view on a lot of things, not only love.
as someone who is both asexual and aromantic, i just wanted to thank you for mentioning both communities and giving us voices in this video. we are often forgotten and the representation just means a lot
so glad i could!
@@oliSUNvia yes, thank you for asking and mentioning us bc im aroace and i always have to explain to people what it is bc it is forgotten and not as "Important"
does that mean you are neither capable of asexual attraction nor romantic attraction?
@@yipi5684 it depends people, the spectrum is very large, asexual and aromantic is more a lack of sexual and romantic attraction than the fact that we can’t feel it at all
as a asexual i’m not interested in sexual activity or even physical touch but we still have libido so sometimes a sort of attraction pop out of somewhere idk
@@Meiv_-pq3bf I think you are just confused, and i bet you just ended what could have been a great relationship because of that. I can be wrong but just dont frame yourself in a reality you alone constructed; If you keep saying you are asexual you will live by that reality. if you love someone "platonically" it is a sign for true peaceful love and just go for it. And if you dont feel a sex drive you just have to go slowly and try having intimate times and biology will kick in and you will have this vulnerable intimate bond. You may not feel what others express in words because its a feeling who cant be described by words and you can use your own words to describe that same feeling.
as someone who just got out of a relationship because i realized i only liked my partner in a platonic way part of me is definitely questioning what actual romantic love is and what it feels like and how is it different from other types of love. because you can have so much love for someone and still not be in love with them and that's just so confusing. love is confusing lol.
A lot of the couples I know who have made it 30 plus years will fess up to the fact that throughout the course of the relationship they fell out of love and back in love multiple times. Even in the best looking marriages the spouses will often go through a multi-year period of having serious animosity - typically during economic hardships or the most labor intensive periods of childrearing. But they chose to stick it out and fell in love again after that period passed.
i think society (this sounds kind of cliché, sorry hahah) has always put so much importance on romantic love, and made us feel like that's the purest way to love someone, that it has ultimately made us forget what love truly is, in general. as someone who is aroace, that definitely doesn't mean i can't love. i'm pretty sure i've loved friends just as much, or even more, as other people have loved their partners. platonic love isn't a lesser love, or a step prior to romantic love. it's just different.
i hope you can figure yourself out (i for one took years to do so), it can be really hard. i still "grieve" for not being able to feel romantic love even thought i don't actually want it, but it's the world around me that has made me feel like i need it to be complete.
@@lu-__- mi
Glad to know I'm not alone!! I only realized I'd never felt romantic love for my ex partner til I fell in romantic love with my best same sex friend of many years.. I learned a lot about myself last year.
it happened last year for me! i’ve loved a guy with all of my heart for 4 years only to realise one day that it was only platonic, i wanted to be close to him like very close friends but not romantically
BUT I’M STILL LOST 😭 i’m asexual and i don’t know if i loved him as a man or a friend because of the boundaries of the term "love", what make the difference between lover and friends if in any case there is no sexual attraction?
I grew up watching every romance film as a kid and I craved it and dreamed of it consistently. This mentality has ruined like 99% of my friendships and relationships because I couldn't tell the difference between platonic and romantic love and had this expectation of love. I'm queer and a slow burn friends to lovers fanfic lover so this was a part of why I mixed up the two. Now a little older I have a guy close friend who I platonicly love and i'm content with how my current relationship with them is. I have no interest in pursuing them romantically and i don't need to, i'm content just to have them in my life as a friend everyday.
I believe it's very important to study love and it's science and I know that it'll shatter that magical fantasy of it but it's unrealistic. Love is more than just sexual attraction. I don't feel the butterflies whatever that means. Because of my unstable emotions having crushes and attraction gives me panic attacks. But I show my love in my actions because I know my emotions and words are flimsy. Everyday i'm learning what love means to me. I hope to maybe one day at least experience love and sex but yeah hollywood's version of love is super outdated and stupid.
As an Autistic adult, I learned that I would get the butterflies and other fear or anxiety-driven effects on a date, and confuse those with the sensation of love.
glad to know that it isn't just me who confuses certain feelings for the sensation of love. its always been such a confusing concept to me, having there be no solid definition on what Is love and exactly how its supposed to look and feel.
Omg this is so true
on the big brain side of yt 😭 good stuff!
PEGASUS ???
Aye yo pegasus?? Hru?
OH hello there dude, just watched your video
Megasus
I haven’t seen your channel in 3 years got DAMN I gotta catch up
My relationship was very much a slow burn. I've only ever had a couple of infatuations in my life (one being a teenage celebrity crush) prior, and I honestly think deep attachments should be how as a society we define love. Instead of waiting for that "spark", it allows us to have much more agency over who we love and choose to be our life partners (if we choose to be monogamous or have kids). They are also deeper, long lasting and based on mutual respect and friendship rather than fleeting lust. It also allows for a less heteronormative and amatonormative view of love too. As deep attachments are essentially deep emotional connection, they not bound by gender, sex drive, or whether you get that dopamine rush.
This is why I play by the demisexual/demiromantic meta. The dopamine rush is caused by deep attachments, and I honestly wouldn't have it any other way
i think love is often used to manipulate people into doing things they normally wouldn't do if they were thinking logically rather than emotionally
Well, when you make a family, you send them off to acquire debt and work off that debt. To banks, landlords, corporations/CEOs, etc. I've seen this messaging so much in my 34 years. Being "mature" is portrayed as "settling down", which translates to expenses, debt and self-enforced submission to bosses/corporations.
Personally, I think love is a feeling with a construct built around it, and real love is more subtle sometimes and more consistent, stable and seemingly 'mundane' and peaceful than it's portrayed in the media.
My recent thoughts on love: Love can be found in all aspects of life - romantic love is just one of its many manifestations. I think that a lot of people view love with another person as a way of completing themselves - but the truth is that true love can only be experienced when you know that you're already whole on your own. Anger and fear aren't "part of the supernatural" because they result from feelings of emptiness and lack, where love stands in direct opposition to those feelings. If you remove all of the parts of your brain that tell you you aren't good enough on your own and that you are inherently wrong or broken (or ugly, or empty, or guilty) you'll find that love is all that's left. This love can be given, shared, and experienced every single day - and when the time is right - with someone special who also experiences the love and joy of being alive.
🙏
Thank you for this! Perfect answer
I absolutely love this, and wholeheartedly agree. Thank you.
I appreciate your opinion. I have a different thought on this, however. I'm not the most confident person. I still have my own issues to deal with and when in harder times, I have very low self esteem. But I still can manage experiencing love while feeling as a whole person. The reason for this is because I don't view my partner as someone who needs to heal me, but because I understand that the self esteem issues are rooted from my childhood experiences. And the weird thing that contradicts this is that, I also believe that there are people who can complete us. But not in a way that makes us a person. I view all my close relationships, ie friends and romantic partner, as part of who I am as an individual. They are my support system and they all have characteristics that help me grow as a person. If I was all alone in the world, I wouldn't know as much as I know now, I wouldn't feel as much as I feel now. I believe that the people around me add to my world bits that make me feel more whole. Think of this as a village. You need people who are hunters, farmers, cooks, and many more roles for it to continue functioning. While each and every single person there is unique and their own individual, they need each other to function. That is how I view these relationships
I have never been able to put this feeling into words, but this is probably the best and most real description of love and close relationships I have ever read! Thank you and you definitely have a gift for writing haha :D
i genuinely really appreciated the part about men and how loving is a “womanly” trait. i’m a dude but i’m also incredibly passionate and emotional in these sort of ways and beyond that just being told my entire life to “man up” any time i feel something really hurt. it felt genuinely empowering to hear this sort of advocacy coming from a woman. thank you 🫶
How old are you?
Are you straight?
Do you consider yourself not as masculine as other people your age that you know?
How being romantic and passionate has affected your romantic relationships?
If you are 18+: Do you feel like an adult?
I ask this because I consider myself to be romantic and passionate, but with the time I'm noticing that it would be better if I wouldn't be like that.
@@KennyAMTlol just be yourself always, dont let other ppl’s ideas on how a man should be influence you, ill be honest though the more i watch these types of videos and look at a women’s perspective on men i do feel weird because i dont fit those stereotypes. i know how to communicate im deeply passionate about the ppl i love would do anything for them and in my past relationships, the women i would meet would be so fearful of my actions and words thinking i was lying that the relationship wouldnt work, we gotta be the ones to change the stereotype lol
@@sully5899I think you‘re last line „we gotta be the ones to change the stereotype“ hits the nail on the head. I’m not a man but I can tell you about my boyfriend‘s experience. It sounds like you‘re a lot like him.
Stereotypes about how a man should be affect women as well, the same vice versa.
For example, my boyfriend doesn’t always have sex on his mind. I often do. So we‘re the exact opposite of the stereotypes. That leads to insecurity in both of us, it feels like you can‘t share your experiences with others. It feels like you’re invisible. It‘s weird. Men aren‘t a homogenous group and women aren‘t as well but damn, are we raised to fit a specific group.
He has problems connecting with other men bc they often perpetuate that stereotype that he doesn’t fit and most definitely doesn‘t want to fit. He doesn’t want to be emotionally immature but it seems like many men don’t actively work on that and that makes connecting with them difficult for him.
I feel like men like you and my boyfriend are changing the world so keep being you, you‘re setting a better standard for men and women alike.
Honestly I have this weirdly strong desire for love but every relationship I've been in just felt...empty, I don't think I've ever actually loved someone but all I want is to fall in love like they do in movies and shit. Now that I'm in my late 20's I think I'm starting to understand how that will probably never happen.
That sounds like you might be cupioromantic. It means someone who experiences little or no romantic attraction but desires a romantic relationship. You obviously don't have to label yourself, or it might not fit you but it might be worth researching
Also, you can still have close bonds with people as someone on the aromantic spectrum- for example close friendships or QPRs (queerplatonic relationships) which are relationships that are somewhere between romantic and platonic. I'm sure you knew some of this already but i hope this helps :]
@florofern6470 I didn't know that at all actually! (I'm only sorta recently coming to terms with being pan and possibly trans so I got alot of stuff I'm only now learning about Sexuality and self identity). Honestly that might be true, I want the connection without the actual relationship part I guess? It might just be alot of unresolved mental issues though tbh cause I know i got alot of those lol. Sorry that was kinda just me rambling but I'll look into that and try to figure out if it fits!
@@Thankfully_Over it's good you're figuring stuff out! I'm glad I could help :)
I also think it wouldve been beneficial to interview older married couples and ask them. How do they describe love?
He ploughs the field, she takes care of the house, older people 90+ know it is a beneficial arrangement with moments of connection within a mutual direction
There's something funny about someone with a Robin pfp proposing this idea, lmao. What an amazing coincidence
I am aroace and I think I experience love very similarly to most people, the way it was described in the beginning of the video: an intense feeling of excitement for the future because you have this relationship and someone being your whole world. Except my love doesn't come with most things we concider romantic, like kissing, sex and dating. It's just a very special friendship, like I'm falling in love with someone platonically (like obsessing over them and them making me strangely happy by just existing) (I mean I've never experienced romantic love so it could be totally different but to me it seems similar). Everyone think I'm dating my friends all the time, because we act so close. To the level that someone thought we were actually getting married.
It feels a bit sad sometimes because I know I'll never be as important to my friends as they are to me because at the end of the day we are platonic friends and they want romance and sex which is a type of relationship that is concidered more important than friendships in our society. So I feel like I'll always loose and be second to romantic love.
On the other side sometimes I see people who are dating and simp for each other so hard that I get incredibly confused. To me it seems more like emotional codependency and attachment issues (which I've had and am working on with my therapist) than a healthy relationship where you are able to be happy on your own. So maybe it is quite different, but whenever people describe it I can always relate to the intense feeling of love itself just not the romantic world around it.
I TOTALLY AGREE, IM AROACE TOOO :))
I'm unlabeled now, but used to be aro, and I still feel the same way you do, I always think of my platonic relationships like how I would treat being in a romantic relationship, this feeling still lingers around me even though I know I'm not aro anymore, because I experience a lot of romantic attraction towards others, but still think of my platonic relationships to be more important than anything else
@@melonenjoyer how do you tell platonic and romantic feelings apart?
@@e.y.a7140 mm good question, I don't 🥲😃
This comment makes me feel so seen. Thank you
Todays society totally fails to see, that loving someone means actively putting work and dedication into the relationship. Erich fromm has a great book about this very topic called „the art of loving“. Loved the vid❤
She in fact speaks about Erich Fromm in an older video about... something.
I wasn't expecting to find another person who underwent the same discoveries of love like you have. Your comment made me smile :)
I consider myself bisexual, engaged to a man ive been friends with for 12 years. I had many toxic relationships before but that has nothing to do with the point im going to make. I found that the love I have for friends gives me a very close feeling to romantic love. I get the same butterflies when i'm spending time with friends and with my fiancee, the only difference is theres no sexual feeling. This helped me figure out that love isn't just tied to romance and the difference between platonic and romantic are so little, at least for me.
I relate to this
it's so interesting to hear how love can be experienced in such different ways
the thing is: i can also feel sexual attraction for my friends (doesn't mean i actually want or will act on it tho, it depends), so not even that makes the distinction for me
@@onlyfrog that depends on if the friend is my type of cute, then i also have these thoughts
@@onlyfrog lmao ur the moron who freidn zones genuine guys and never talks direct... youre a mess stay living with ur grandma in the basement plz
having aromantic voices in this video means SO much to me. I'm genuinely so grateful for great representation.
Kinda to me, I felt strong feelings at first but it eventually faded. It doesnt mean I don't love her, but that feeling I thought was love was not it. I found that trust to me is the most important foundation for "love." So I can see how love is a construct.
I see what where you are coming from, but I guess everyone's view is different on love. My perspective in '' loving '' someone is trust & loyalty. But I guess people just call the chemical effect of feeling attracted to someone '' love ''. (that's the nowadays meaning of love, what I find ridiculous because I hear all the time now '' I had 3 boyfriends or girlfriends in the past and loved them all '' bullsh*t if you ask me... if someoen can love so many people we call that person broken and not fit for a relationship.
to me, love kinda feels like friendship but you also want to kiss them
@@noWoodsman i mean…what are you supposed to do after you break up with someone you loved? never love again? and what about family and friends? it’s pretty normal to love multiple people throughout your life, especially if you add platonic and familial relationships to the mix.
@@wren_. wait, do you not kiss your homies goodnight and tuck them in bed after reading them a bedtime story?
@@samuelboczek1834 same, I agree. Love for me is wanting the best for someone, wanting them to be happy and caring deeply for them. I see a very little difference in romantic and platonic love other than the intensity of those feelings and the commitment that comes with it
I wonder if there are many situations where a platonic relationship only truly developed into a romantic one because of it seeming like the normal thing to happen. Like male and female friendships. Whenever u see male+female friendships online its very likely that once they act as close as they would to their non opposite gender friends they’re to be called out for it like “oh one of them def has a crush” or stuff like that. It’s the assumption that a man and woman are bound to become something more than friends. Stuff like this could maybe cause relationships to develop cuz it just seems like the right thing?
Also another thing I’ve thought can definitely contribute as it does for many around me are the boundaries that are kinda set when ur purely platonic on how much love you’re supposed to show. There’s a level of love you’re not normally supposed to give to just friends cause it’s meant to be reserved for when you find “the one”. Some people crave getting rlly intimate and close in a way that often is weird in platonic relationships which could also be a cause of why ppl rlly seek romantic relationships? Apart from that there’s also the fact that you’re often allowed to be more dependent of a partner than a friend. You’re supposed to be eachothers other halves in a way and many rlly want that sort of bond. + those who are unsatisfied, discontent, sad etc with their life think it will miraculously solve their problems. Im unsure how these really connect to the topic but it’s just super interesting to think about. The video is really well made as usual.
Love is confusing
@@ceasarinvictus3857 human psyche is confusing
I think you are right about what you said, this is what happened to me actually. I was feeling very lonely, dissatisfied with life, sad and depressed for a very long time. I thought that it was because I didn’t have a relationship. Then, last year, I started dated someone. While we were together I was feeling peaceful and happy, but everytime I was alone at home I was again feeling sad, lonely, overwhelmed (it was a stressful time because I had a lot of things to do and I was physically alone a lot. I don’t have a lot of friends and I felt overwhelmed). Anyway, this is when I realized it was not a relationship that I was craving, and all of my sad feelings were actually cause by something else. I thought a relationship would solve my problems with my feelings, but it was only temporary. And as you said, I think and I notice this happens to a lot of people, who are feeling lonely and depressed and they think a relationship is what they need. But It is not. It might bring some happiness, but if there are other problems, unless you solve THEM, you won’t be satisfied.
just to add on to what you said with regards to theres boundaries set in place between platonic heterosexual relationships, i think even the whole topic of touch is interesting. i've noticed from my own platonic relationships with both boys and girls, that the women i have been friends with a very touchy but i grew up in an environment where touch was reserved for romantic relationships only. i would get extremely uncomfortable but underneath that feeling i would also feel a sense of longing and comfort, like why is it so wrong to cuddle my female friend? what makes cuddling only romantic? why cant i hold my friends hand without people assuming we are in a relationship.
idk where i was going with this but yeh this is just my 2 cents.
I only have two male friends., One later turned into my boyfriend. In my case, one friend I couldn't see him In a sexual way and I never wanted a romantic relationship with him, but I did want to know him better.everyone told me that that must mean that i was attracted to him but I was sure that it wasn't the case.
With the friend that later turned boyfriend, he sparked my interest and I felt very secure and comfortable close to him, like nobody had made me feel that. We pursued a relationship not too long after meeting and while looking back, we should have waited more time because we didn't truly get to know each other, we ended up doing great. Discussions are minimal and we try our best yo understand and respect each other, among other things. We had our doubts but we talked things through. The butterflies stage ended, but after that comes a stage were you realize you have built this relationship and your love and trust has been growing and growing and you really appreciate your partner for who they are and not an idealisation.
The ultimate definition of love is putting someone else's needs before yours but that can include a variety of other components. As for choosing a partner, don't stress, nobody is perfect. As long as you have good communication and mutual respect than love grows daily and it's a beautiful thing spending time with someone who cares about your well-being as much as you care about them. Emotions come and go but love stays forever. Love God first before anything else and other things are second.
I’ve been questioning the existence of love lately and I’m starting to think such a thing doesn’t actually exist. Everyone has a personal idea of what it should be or look like. It just makes love seem like nothing more than just that..an idea lol. Then there’s also the argument of ‘If you can FEEL it, then it must be real’, but that doesn’t actually solidify it’s existence, in my opinion. I can FEEL like someone somewhere is talking about me- doesn’t mean it’s actually happening.
It looks like the more we try to understand what love could possibly be, we’re always left with more questions than answers.
this is one of the topics bell hooks explains in her book 'all about love' and how the looseness of the definition of love can lead to the romanticization of abuse and neglect
As a younger person I really wanted to believe that early euphoria is “love” even though most older and wiser people say that is not real love. In my 40s now, I truly believe love is a choice and it can only develop over time as both people truly get to know each other deeply. To say you “love” someone you barely know because you are getting that euphoric feeling around them seems very silly to me now.
@@katiez688 i love ur comment !! i fell into that trap in my teens as well and had to shatter my views on love (mostly developed by the media i consumed).
@@katiez688 I agree. I’m really young, but I’ve never even felt infatuation, be it romantic or physical. I always found it silly that people who barely know each other “love” each other, it’s a bond and trust that’s built over a long time.
in conversations about love, aroace people are often left out, even though they bring unique thoughts and new questions to the table. So I (an aroace person) really appreciate you getting so much input !
my view of love has always been, would i be willing to die for that person or would i endure extreme hardships for that person
My answer for both is nope lol
Same, tbh and like can we both love eachother knowing our flaws and be friends as well
Yes I only feel like that for my family tho, they are the only people I would die for.
@@sassyqueen9739 that makes perfect sense, family and close friends (which is also family just not by blood) are the truly the people you love
As a straight guy, i'm genuinely scared how popular are man-hating videos and TikToks. I feel like those girls are consciously choosing partners with visible bad traits and then attach those traits to all men, to feel better about themselves (same goes for another side of barricade - hating woman).
shhh women can do nothing wrong
@@hello-rq8kfLOL
Here's blackpill for ya, the reason they pick bad men is because those bad men had good looks, hense why they even tolerate them.
As shocking as it is, but neither sex actually loves toxic partners, it's just looks(the thing driving love) that make people forgive and try to make toxic partnerships work
I'd like to add a disability perspective as well. I'm schizophrenic (among other things) and that affects how I experience emotions, including love. In most cases, my emotions are very dull, so I don't think I am physically able to experience love (or hatred, or just... strong emotions in general lol). That's a brain thing, but I still don't identify as aromantic, because I just... don't see why I should? I don't see the use of it, since I do want a relationship, I want to get married and all that stuff, and I also think that it's not like the person can look into my brain. To me, love is an ACTION, where I choose to SHOW the people that I actually want to be around/with them, even if it doesn't do too much emotionally. If I act the part, if i WANT to act the part, if being around the person makes me feel happy and comfortable, even if it's not what people would call "love", what does it matter what EXACTLY I feel? Why shouldn't I be allowed to say that I love this person, when effectively, I do, even if my brain chemistry doesn't match? Why should I be "prohibited" from loving because of my brain setup? (and, slightly related, why would it be a "betrayal" if I don't put a disclaimer right away that "hey, my brain chemistry doesn't allow me to feel these SUPER INCREDIBLY INTENSE emotions that you expect when I talk about love, so I will never love you the way you expect me to, even though my behaviour does not show that!" that just makes things harder for everyone involved)
I also think that it's just... impossible to be fully certain that other people experience love (or emotions in general) a certain way, and that there's so much variation in the human experience, so we can't fully know that how we feel love is how love is "supposed to" be felt, and having an idea of what it's "supposed to" be like just makes life a lot harder for everyone else because they (we) feel a pressure to conform to certain emotions, even though we literally can't control that and can't even be sure that's the "normal" experience
Hope this made sense lol another side effect of schizophrenia is jumbled thoughts so sorry abt that!
to be honest most of your conclusions make total sense
im more distracted with the fact that your entire comment sounds like something i'd type. idk i think your input is cool. and i love the way your comment is written.
more to the point though;
.. hmm..
speaking objectively, from the idea that there is a reason that every action should be carried out, it doesnt seem like you have a reason to identify as aromantic.
""essentially"", you seem capable of experiencing love, and even if you cant experience it intensely, you take the care to make sure that what you'd /like/ to feel is communicated to the other person. to be honest, sometimes, i feel like that too; i feel like whatever im feeling is insufficient, and that if i really cared, i'd feel more strongly. unfortunately im too insensitive(? dunno if this is the right word) to act on that concern like you do, so in that area im envious lel
hmm. this is hard for me to answer though. ive never thought about the concept of love, or what it is,or what other people think it is. i.... would say i dont, feel love, not explicitly- its not like i look at a person- even a loved one- and go "oh my god i love them so much", or even think that. but like, i do. obviously. but its not that.. simple. its not that obvious.
i think love is a type of care that isnt as .. explicit, as other emotions. i dont think it clicks. instead, to me, it builds, like more of a change in opinion; like slowly, you find yourself thinking about a person more, and caring about what they do, say, or feel, and wanting to be good for them, till you end up with a "crush" (saying crush makes it sound immature). usually when you can act on those feelings, it feels like love.
for me, love is synonymous with care. for most people around me, its the same way-- even some highly selfish people around me. i think even the most self centered brat would somehow find themselves employing basic empathy on the whims of love. its just how it works.
i think if thats something you experience- more so than the emotional, literal, almost horror-movie-stinger like reaction- then yes, you experience love, and I dont think I would call you aromantic.
thats just my 2 cents tho.
just like your comment, i hope this doesnt read like scrambled eggs. i type exactly how the words appear in my head, hesitation periods and all. i decided not to edit this, because i felt like, here, is somewhere where i wouldn't recieve smack for typing like a poet on LSD.
@@3u-n3ma_r1-c0 that's exactly what i'm saying! like if i don't want to id as aro and it doesn't serve me in any way, why are certain ppl trying to push the label on me?? why are they deciding i'm not "allowed" to say i love ppl? the conversation on what love is and how love is experienced can be and is also used as a tool of oppression, to deny certain people the "right" to love, and thus the right to marriage, reproducing etc (which are often seen as results of love, however brief said love might have been). and usually those groups are... marginalised groups.
so i feel like thid aspect is very important when we talk about love because i guess my love is like that of a victorian bachelorette, yet it is seen as faulty, ungenuine etc because of my disabilities, while if i said i HATE someone (which fits in more with what people presume me to feel with these diagnoses) no one would say BUT YOUR NEURAL PATHWAYS DONT LET YOU EXPERIENCE THAT!!!!!!!!!
so basically i think what "counts" as love is very dependent on if youre part of the majority or if youre "undesirable" in any way, in which case your experience - even if it is near identical to that of a privileged person - will be denied the right to be called love, which further alienates you from our society which is SO obsessed with loving and being in love etc
Aromantics can desire and be in relationships and still be aromantic not labeling you just a disclaimer so people know. Also I understand that feeling as someone who is autistic and aroace.
I relate to this comment a lot. As an aroace, who's maybe also aplatonic, I've often asked myself, how can I even have friend when I don't "love" them in the way society tells me friends should love each other. But I realized, caring for them, enjoying to spend time together must be "enough". It's about what you're willing to give, not about the lack of emotional bond.
This is how I feel in my relationship for the most part. We've had convos about it and my partner did feel a bit hurt that I couldn't return their feelings with anything other than my actions. But we've gotten past it through talking about it and me making as much effort as possible to make them feel cared for.
as an aroace person (i fluctuate up and down both the aromantic and asexual spectrums) i'm glad i watched the whole video before commenting cause i was very much not expecting that nice aroace rebuttal we got. it's always odd hearing people who study relationships act like romance and sex are an inherant part of our humanity because then it just makes aroace people feel like we're broken. i'm a film major with an interest in screenwriting and one of my goals is to help change this idea in the media that every happily ever after has to be romantic to be considered fulfilling.
also loved the little shanspeare cameo lmao
good luck with that !! we need more people like youuu
Romantic love is inherent to humanity, but so is violence, so.... There's a variety in human nature
im also aroace and tbh i always wonder why ppl focus so much on romance when all children/teen shows and movies have so much emphasis on friendship and the bond and power of platonic love. some romance exists in the media but mainly its focused on found family and then as adults we suddenly have an influx of romance and theres this strong emphasis on romance being the ultimate goal and we dont really get much of the platonic love other than maybe in some sitcoms. so clearly in media and writing we agree of the importance of platonic love and yet irl ppl push romance as first and most important
@@watching7721 i agree with what u said but community, family, and friendship is also big in media. some of the most popular and well loved media is about found family and community. most cultures emphasize the importance of community but i guess since most of the media i consume is made by western ppl which pushes more of an individualistic system rather than a collective, theres less focus on community? but again it makes no sense to have so many popular and beloved movies/series focus on platonic love despite being made in an individualistic society.
mainly i think it also ties into wanting ppl to get together to increase the population and therefore the workforce. it all just ends up being a way to feed capitalism and have a mass amount of workers (working in poor conditions barely making enough to survive) to make the rich richer. i feel like we should look into if romantic media increased around the time of roe v wade. america has always pushed the idea of the ideal life of a hardworking man and woman who marry and buy a home and have a bunch of children.
i feel like im going in circles now tho this topic makes me frustrated. my only point is for everyone to accept platonic love as a necessity and view it in equal standing to romance.
Oh my god you don’t have to label every little thing. Y’all really come up with new shit everyday
as someone who is a DID system and dating someone I feel extra keen on what is that emotion called love because some alters fully claim to love our partner, some see it merely as the start of what could be love, others are just meeting them for the first time, and others are young or feel unable to love(or any emotions) or are interested in people of a different gender than my partner. it is very interesting being 2 different "types" of people, in this regard, and having these mixed attractions towards my partner sometimes.
Im so happy to find another commenter like this! I have OSDD-1B; I as the host am very attracted to my partner. But other headmates aren't. They're friendly absolutely but never try hitting on them.
Its a very weird experience dating as a system, thats for sure 🤭
I felt a lot in my relationship but one thing that keeps us together and makes us appreciate one another is love. I am happy that we are all capable of feeling this incredible emotion.
Hope you guys live a happy and fulfilling life and that we share love by being kind and honest and happy to the ones around us even when the others don’t.
thanks for including the aro and ace communities in your video
I just want to say that fruit is a biology term (comes from a fertilized flower) whilst vegetable is a culinary term.
A tomato is both a fruit and a vegetable as are cucumbers, eggplants and so on.
Both are right, there is no debate.
i really loved this video! i myself am on the aroace spectrum and had trouble understanding what romantic love truly is and i appreciate it a lot that you included aromantic people here :D
I just found your channel, and I swear every single one of your videos is something that I have kept myself awake thinking about at some point in my life. Thank you.
I think this video is exactly why I find love so beautiful. To hear different people’s experience about their perception of love - whether its platonic, romantic - it’s all unique to the individual. We feel love differently but it evokes the same emotions within us all - joy, warmth. It’s biological, sociological, but also incredibly dependent on the person experiencing it. It’s a universal phenomenon that is tailored to our own preferences. The biggest issue I think is that we are constantly bombarded with ways to “properly love” when it’s something we need to define on our own terms. How I feel loved is not necessarily how my partner feels loved. Funny enough, learning how other people want to be loved is in itself quite lovely. It’s so strange, complex, but beautiful feeling.
I also want to add that I truly believe love is the forcing drive for our decisions, but its not romantic love. For example, I work because work gives me money that I can use to create experiences and buy things - and I love being able to have that autonomy. I watch a movie over another one because I love sci fi over thrillers. I go to a certain store because I love their selection of pastas more than other stores. While it may not be the love our brain first goes to, it’s still our *love* for something. You posted this video because you love analyzing things and creating content, so everything we do is in some way rooted in love or lack thereof.
I agree everyone has different perceptions of love, it’s like love languages
Look up “the five love languages” there’s also a book describing these languages. I think this fits with your comment perfectly. People have different ways on how they feel loved.
i just watched a gay coming of age movie and felt so sad thinking how i would never get such love, this video came exactly at the right time
Why not?
moonlight?
@@wi1m it was a Brazilian movie, called 'The way he looks'
@@Purplegreen45 idk I feel v incapable of it
@@lakhanchauhan4507 you don’t decide whether or not someone else loves you. there is absolutely nothing stopping you from being loved by others
Love is work, love is pain, love is sacrifice, that's what we do, we fucking grind.
Love is another making you feel pain because they want to be with you.
Great video! I love how you welcomed other people's input while also remaining both respectful and critical of their beliefs. I thought that was incredibly skillful.
I wonder if people would still experience love the same way if romantic books, films, songs etc didn't exist.. like I believe people when they say they felt it like in the movies but maybe that's bc their subconscious thought it should be that way 🤔
They'd most likely be less confused
I think the best way to find the answer for that would be to find out what queer people felt before non heterosexual love was represented, did they feel it differently.
Also, from my experience, it's when I realise I have a crush on someone that I actually start getting the more intense feelings. It's interesting, like the theory that emotions as we know them come from us subconsciously labeling them and recognising them as what's appropriate in the situation
I am gay..I grew up with no representation of queer love, especially that I'm living in a more conservative country in Asia. Growing up all I could see is heterosexual move from movies to books.
I was confused for not being like them. But at the end of the day, I do believe that we are all biologically the same.
But society sets us apart into believing that this should be the norm yada yada.
As they say "Familiarity makes it easy to mistake culture for nature" Now, I can see more queer love representation and feeling more "normal"...
Im aroallo (aromantic but not asexual), and the beginning of the video was a little bit painful, i saw the Wired video of Fisher and this interview gave me the same feeling. I recognise the biological reality of love but COMPLETELY disagree with Fisher's vision of evolution
Now, the rest of the video was absolutely great, huuuuge thanks for including aro folks and thanks to them, it was a really interesting conversation and it's always nice to hear people who share the same struggles as me!
Bonus: in the aro community we often say that romantic attraction is wanting to do romantic things with a person. Those things are romantic because of the intent behind them. You can go watch a movie with a friend but it's not the same vibe as going to the movies with your crush. You can hug your mom, but it's not the same as hugging someone you love. It's not about the action, it's about the intent!
I was going to bring this up as well, she really just about said "it's just a phase" or "you haven't met the right person yet," smh...
Also it was a bit weird when she said that sexual feelings come from the same place in the brain as romantic feelings, I mean that just has to be objectively false...?
It's not about intent, it's about your feelings. They are called romantic feelings for a reason is not just a mere intention.
@@farisakhtar4824 romantic feelings often comes with wanting to do romantic things. The definition of romantic attraction often loops on itself, because then, what is a romantic activity? The intent and the feeling become close, personally i would feel uncomfortable receiving a hug from someone who intents it as a romantic hug, whereas i would feel less uncomfortable if the person meant it as platonic even if they were having romantic feelings for me
Idk if it is any clearer 😅
That's indeed a really good definition, it enables aro/ace to not struggle into the infinite spiral of "what is romantic attraction or love" and to avoid hurtful talks about not human stuff
@@minh6394 that's a terrible definition, as you can want to do romantic things with that kind of intent without romantic feelings. Actions and desire are not the same as attraction, which is an emotional or mental thing.
Wow, just incredible work here. So much think about. You brought up so many things I didn't have the language to talk about or even conceptualize for myself. So so helpful. Thank you for all your hard work. Lets get you to 1M stat.
Another awesome video as always! I found your channel kinda recently but am a huge fan of your insight and balanced perspective. It’s refreshing to hear someone give credit to a perspective they don’t ultimately agree with. Keep it up!
Listening to this as I'm cooking supper and I'm literally CHOPPING A TOMATO to use an a SAVORY dish with OTHER VEGETBLES as Olivia says "TOMATOES ARE CLEARLY A VEGETABLE" and I am sent :)
Grapes are great in salads, no one is calling THEM vegetables >:[
Tomato is a fruit or is that the point?
True love for me is faith, hope, community, culture, understanding, commitment, empathy, trust, respect, forgiveness and connection.
All those things and more. I would sum it up as 'care'.
There is no good reason to not care about everyone and everything.
There are plenty of good reasons to do so.
❤
I was aromantic and promiscuous until I met my wife. To be honest, it was also just a fling at first. I can't say what made the difference but the honeymoon phase lasted longer than usual and turned into a feeling of deep connection. We have been together almost 20 years and my heart skip the beat when she comes home at the evening.
If my 20 years younger self would hear that, he would laugh at me 😂.
So you're a regular person. I'm shocked
Then you weren’t aromatic
@@LiterallyInklingGirlweirdo..
Amazing video. You threw so many things in here, somehow coherently, and it helped me organise my own thoughts a little. Often the discourse already is part of the answer. Thank you!
Love is such a misunderstood concept in society, it really shocks me how far people can make up things just to cope with different experiences or comply with status quo norms. This video helps to combat that. Thank you for the amazing videos as always!
I've been in love with a childhood (more like teenage) friend for about two years, I'm 27. After going around the States and Mexico I came back to my country and I confess my feelings for her (I bought her a present also, we were close to Christmas) this was a mild shock for her, had her sus feelings.
While I was away I understood I was in love (I didn't wanted to be in love with her, because we're at the very center of our group of friends, and we are really close), so one of the things I wanted to do when I came back to my country was to confess my feelings. Doing such thing is hard because I'm not used to show feelings.
Obviously I was rejected, we were really close before I confessed. Now we are really distant. Makes sense even though I'm destroyed.
The reason why I'm saying this bullshit it's because we men do feel love, and we might be as emotional and dramatic as women are. That's my stupid ass grain of salt.
I have the impression that women feel another kind of love than men do. But it's only speculation since I've never experienced a relationship.
@@Pascal_Mueller every childhood, teenage and adulthood years differ greatly, it's impossible to predict outcomes in a logical manner when it comes to this almost out-of-this-world topics.
I've had this exact thing happen in my group of friends (between two of my friends) and after a few months of distance my friend realized she actually had feelings for the other friend and they ended up together.
Also in the same group of friends one of the guys was in love with me for like 1 year and when we got together it only lasted three months, because he ended up losing excitement!
What I mean to say is things can change. She might change her mind and want to be with you or your feelings towards her could change and you could end up being good friends again! So don't lose hope.. Heartbreak is hard, but with time it gets easier.
As a queer kid i know last line is true asf ❤️
exactly. i find it so strange how society has made out that men and women are completely different. we’re literally the same, just different body parts. for some reason the stereotypes have emerged that men are under-emotional and women are over-emotional. clearly neither of those are true, and these assumptions are to the detriment of all of us
This gotta be one of your best video you ever made. This is amazing, well done!
I love that you included the aro community. I was wondering the whole vid up to the point you introduced them.
Good job.
i'm not feeling like writing TOO much rn, but i'm a neuropsychology student and followed a course on social neuroscience last semester. i love evolutionary psychology, but i feel it fails to highlight natural differences and variances sometimes. what dr. fisher is describing most of the time is infatuation, the feeling driven by the dopamine system. after the infatuation phase, the brain adapts to stay together but doesn't feel that rush anymore; this is when the butterflies leave, what alot of people refer to as the end of the honeymoon phase. but it's still love.
in my course i also learned about the biology behind platonic love and parental love. these again activate and deactivate different parts of the brain than infatuation or long-term love, but it doesn't make these types of love any less valuable, nor does it make them "deviations from the norm". you can speculate for a long time about the evolutionary purposes of these types of love and these variances, but there's no denying that they exist. variation is natural and human, no two brains are the same.
the brain is simply so fucking complex and we're far from figuring everything out. in the past, scientists had no idea what defined 'life' either and speculated about supernatural life essence. we've got that figured out by now, and i suspect we'll figure out what love is, and consciousness too, in the same way. we're just not there yet. neuroimaging techniques are lacking man, let's just wait and see what we find out in the future. that's also why i do agree that love is purely a product of brain activity. that fact actually makes it even more magical to me, the absence of the supernatural makes me feel more connected to nature, other people and the universe. our brain is wonderful, humans are amazing and so is every other animal and plant on this earth.
ok i did end up writing alot, lol. tldr variances in love are extremely natural and you make a great point by saying exact sciences and humanities are connected instead of opposed.
i want to add; biology gets misinterpreted lots of the time. like you said, the issue with biology is that it naturalizes love and makes it seem unchangable, or like a female trait. i raise you: neuroplasticity. we can change the connectedness of our brain - that is, the biology of our brain - through our actions and thought patterns. after all, if our actions and thought patterns are a consequence of our biology, why wouldn't it work the way around as welll? and this has been proven. men aren't stuck to be lazy because of 'evolution'. i want to remind you that evolutionary psychology is almost purely theoretical, but neuroplasticity is very much empirically supported. additionally, the bell curves of male/female neural traits almost entirely overlap. this means that there are only a select few who really align with the male/female divide of providing/cheating/caring/whatever evolutionary psychology says about sex differences. the biggest part of the population does not fit inside the male or female box and this is also scientifically supported. evolutionary psychology gets misconstrued alot of the time, by people who use it to fit their sexist or otherwise biased narratives.
@@vickysmashesyouwithahammer that's really intriguing, my personal belief is that a lot of things in life are actually subject to change rather than being absolutely objectively set in stone, do you know if neuroplasticity is linked with epigenetics?
I find it hard to believe that your science class would make a moral conclusion on love. Degrees don't make you a moral person. My opinion for example, differs with you greatly. I believe homosexuality and asexuality are abnormal and unhelpful to the species. Does that mean they deserve to be bullied or prohibited? Of course not. But should we be celebrating the lifestyle? No, that doesn't sound like a productive society to me.
@@TryingtoTellYou are you claiming that variance, a literal empirical statistical observation, is a moral conclusion? go be homophobic elsewhere.
@@DaRealSentaur i didn't learn anything about a connection between neuroplasticity and epigenetics, but i guess you can say they are similar! neuroplasticity is more about a change in connectivity of the brain and epigenetics is more about change in the expression of a gene, i guess. interesting to think about :D
"what the polyamorous community doesn't tell you is how much they talk about it" ... Yeah... It's called having good communication skills. There's nothing wrong with talking openly about negative emotions like jealousy with your partner, if you both create a safe space to do so. Approaching these uncomfortable topics with curiosity, compassion, and kindness instead of fear, insecurity, and resentment can take your relationship to new heights and bring you closer together. Working with your partner to overcome feelings of jealousy should not be seen as a negative thing, but rather a true test of love! Great video, lots of food for thought :)
I feel like that is what she was saying. That most people don’t recognize that people in polyamorous relationships (that actually work) have done an extreme amount of communication in order to go around certain biological reactions that may arise when romantic feelings are involved. So I completely agree with you
@@almondxx00 her implication, at least in the snippets we received, was that it should be easier to have romantic relationships and not have such extensive communication. It's frustrating for me that she takes the less than extensive communication in a lot of monogamous relationships to be the optimal condition because it's how we've been conditioned and normalized, but we know that we can have better relationships, not only of the romantic or sexual variety, but also for platonic and familial bonds, by simply applying effort to our communication with those very same people. So, yes, she's right that it takes polyamorous people a lot of communication to maintain relationships, but that can be said for all relationships. Romantic and sexual relationships just tend to require more communication than with platonic connections because it can involve sexual health, family planning, finances, security, etc.
@@SoularSlothesk Polyamory fundamentally cannot include the words "I love you most" without at least one party being in a relationship where they love someone who loves them less than another. Those are powerful, securing, words. Words people would kill to hear. It's completely unsurpring polyamory is more communication, and completely unsurprising people in polyamory almost always have mental issues or past trauma. When you can't say those most powerful words to anyone but yourself, or you decide to let someone love you knowing you can never love them the same, you're entering dangerous territory, at least for the rest of society to deal with.
I think she said that to show that humans are biologically wired for social pairing, even if they are polyamorous they could still experience jealousy. I don't think she meant it in a negative way, instead she just wanted to explain a point that she was trying to make.
@@willsander6178 I mean, my monogamous partner never says that to me. he's told me multiple times his family comes first. he knows that for me, my friends and community come first. we both know we don't love each other the most and are okay with that.
Great video. Opened my perspective a lot! You are amazing at doing thorough research and explaining in simple words
So glad for another video from you on "love" thank you for your work!
As a demiromantic asexual, I just wanted to thank you for including aro perspective in this video. We really lack rep and sociaty does a 'great' job in erasing us. I appreaciate giving us voice on any occasion. Great video, love this channel and your hard work!! :))
As someone who has always been confused and frustrated with being unable to figure out/define my feelings and thought process on romance, thank YOU for letting me know the word demiromantic exists as things finally make some sense now 😭
I'm also a demiro ace person! glad to see there's more than just me, even if I knew that logically lmao :)
@@NotLard Ahhh so happy to hear it from you! Glad I could help :))
I also might be demiromantic and heterosexual since "Love on the first sight" was never a thing for me but I can feel sexual attraction towards a Person.
No need to invent special labels for yourself. You’re human, like everyone else. We all have our differences.
I think love is real but the problem is that everybody conveys it differently. Theres tons of "traditional" love out there but theres also people who don't convey their love for each other in traditional ways. The different love languages and how not everybody has the same one(s) shows this for example, some people love by words of affirmation others love by just spending time together.
I'm personally a very romantic and expressive guy and because that my idea of love is the traditional giving roses, dancing together, cuddling, etc. So naturally I wouldn't be compatible with an aromantic woman and thats okay! Everybody deserves to be happy according their own needs however way they please whether its a long term trad romantic relationship or just wanting partnership
Some aro people like doing these things too though. Actually a lot of them like traditionally romantic stuff. It's a bit complicated
@@user-dw8uj1fb4tI am aromantic allosexual, and I do like cuddling, but it is something platonic for me. I have always been a very touchy person but this could be entirely unrelated
wow holy wow, I gotta say I'm an avid reader researcher of how bonds have evolved, what is truly love, and romantic love. I became ENM not so long ago and along the way I had seen, read, and talk about this topic A LOT. And yet, I never learned so much about it as in this video. Truly grateful for the time and effort you put on this projects.
Damn you did a really good job breaking down concepts in this video. There was a few times I was about to comment a rebuttal to Dr. Fishers arguments, instead I decided to keep watching and you answered every question I had. Really good shit my dude
Wow, incredibly thoughtful, as usual. You consistently provide novel and insightful commentary about the most, ostensibly benign, subjects. You present unparalleled cognitive ability and remarkable cultural affinity.
okay i just have to say, i have never felt so validated & INCLUDED in the conversation when it comes to being an aspec person. seriously, the whole segment of just highlighting aro voices was sososo meaningful, and i just wanna thank you for using your platform to share those stories & opinions :)
adding onto the discussion tho, I've always believed that what we call "love" is actually a handful of similar feelings, whether biologically or socially, that we've just lumped all together & labelled the same name. I think that's why there's so often confusion, miscommunication, and disappointment when it comes to "love." Breaking what we call love into those three biological parts, but then also isolating those emotional reactions from the social desires some people have to share a home with somebody, and/or have kids together, is a great first step to fully understanding ourselves as individuals and being able to better communicate with others.
all that to say I really enjoyed this video! you had a great topic and stellar execution. looking forward to seeing what you do next!
💖💖
Im very thankfull for videos like this, because as a teen i feel like im exposed to many extreve views of love, or politics. Which many times ends up being confusing. Videos like this are truly helpfull when i cant really get my head around something. Thanks Olivia😃
hey! Thanks so much for the video. Its the deepest I've found so far on how love functions, and I really appreciate the references to literature!
Thank you for mentionning the aro/ace communities as well as speaking about amatonormativity. I came out as aroace in the last year and it's good to feel seen as well as seeing our struggle shared
From my perspective, the feeling of love is the same whether it's towards a mother or a romantic partner - it's the feeling of caring, of wanting them to be happy, of being happy when you see them smile, of worrying about their wellbeing. But with the romantic partner there is an additional layer of lust on top, which brings an intimacy to what would otherwise be a close friendship. Its a no-holds-barred type of interaction, I don't feel the need to pull back if I want to go on for a hug, which I may feel for a platonic friend. To me my partner is "best friends with benefits who live together". So it's just that our boundaries are different and much more lax. Is that what romance is? I feel like for me, a crush is just where I am physically lusting after someone. Like it's completely separate from love.
i am really trying to understand where i stand with my friend with benefits. we enjoy spending time together and definitely lust after one another but it seems to us both like we're not really in love... and we don't know exactly what we would have to feel in order to start a relationship
@@landerlaurits have you had a conversation with them about this, like specifically sat down to talk about it? I don't have experience in this department I'm afraid, I wouldn't want to give bad advice 😞
@@beesmcgee4223 yes we communicate openly with each other and we're aware that we're basically getting somewhere close to a relationship without the label
tbh i would like to say we're in a relationship because i do feel a deep level of affection towards him, but i don't see it as a necessity, whereas he would want to develop feelings first
no worries about the advice :)
who knows, maybe someone else who sees this has some
So glad I found this intelligent, thoughtful and brilliant channel. I have learned so much from this young woman; she’s brilliant! ❤
Glad this video exists and is well put together with information, contrast, and equanimity. I woke up feeling a massive ache in my heart (not a heart attack), and asked myself this exact question, "isn't love just a social construct?" Apparently it's not so simple and much attention may be given to understanding the depths of this topic.
i also love how you structure your videos in true essay format; especially the conclusions you do really well :) thank you olivia
i love seeing olivia’s editing skills improving and the overall video quality is astonishing, i love your channel, great content as always.
I heard a psychologist define love as ' Exultation by virtue of the humiliated self" was tough to wrap my head around, but eventually it makes a whole lot of sense.
I read a book called Siddhatha by Hermann Hesse, it completely changed my worldview on love. Instead of loving the world for what it could be, love the world as it is, in every moment, as it isn’t on a trajectory toward perfection; the world is perfect at every instance, there is a saint in the sinner and a sinner in the saint. Basically you’ll go through falling in and out of love but as long as you love yourself and the world you’ll find your way and you’ll find the right person but that doesn’t mean you’ll always have that person as they have their own path as well.
I’m on the aro/ace spec, and I really appreciate that you included the community in your video. I honestly just agree that love is a weird mix of a construct and natural. I can’t say much more though because I really don’t understand the difference between romantic and platonic relationships. I mean, it just depends on the person and what they consider romantic I guess. Anyways, have a great day!
Romance is the knowing of the others body. That involves kissing, "touching", and sex the like. There isn't different definitions for it just the same as you wouldn't question what a flower is. Modern age has confused and lead astray of what both Romance and Love. Love it an act and a commitment to another, which is why you can love your family, friends, neighbors, ect... it is an act that you are doing that is benefiting them in a meaningful way. When you start to add too many works and concepts to explain something, it either loses the original meaning or takes on something else.
The difference is lust my dude. You want them sexually or you don't. You are not missing out on anything lol.
"i don't munch on tomatoes like an apple"
*Looks at the half Britten tomato in my hand nervously
I really appreciate this video being made, i had my own theories about it. I don't want to label my self but sexual/romantic love is a hard thing for me to feel and understand. I've asked people their experience and throws me in a loop. Leaving me to Wonder if something is wrong with me. I tend to acknowledge the feeling but also analyze the why. If I end up with someone it would be a choice not a need.
Great video! I'm going back through and watching some of your catalog and it's really opening my mind and helping me reflect, especially this video. Keep it up lol
i love your videos about love! (seriously, they helped me in figuring out the ways i wanna build my relationships and later my aromanticism)
I believe that there's no such thing as love. Only an idea of what it is or should be. But there's an argument to be made that if we come to a consensus that it exists then it's real.
I think the social construct of love is just a reference to a very real physiological / neurological / psychological phenomenon. Asserting the social construction of love is like asserting the social construction of water or forestry: of course, the labels and paradigms we attribute to these phenomena belong to some social -- or otherwise external -- framework, but this fact indicates little about their origin.
@@faeancestor I was about to develop your point, but then realised you'd basically summarised it perfectly and now I feel foolish, but either way I agree, 100%
What would you then describe the feeling parents have for their children, is it not love, is it something else, what do you reckon?
@@faeancestor"It's not about the form of a thing, but the nature of it"
You just said it, "I believe..."
As mentioned by Joba: "the thing with magic is you cannot have it if you don't believe"
yooo thank you so much for making this video. my sosoiolgy teacher told us to wrtie an essay about love and what is love, so i really am glad to find this video. there are lots of good point and interesting way of thinking and i think this is why my sosiology teacher want us to do this. anyway, thanks again and as always love your video
Ur a genius i wish more people will look at love and research it the way u are!
the way that you explain things is always so simple and pleasant to listen to, i forget how complicated all these concepts really are
Loving the growth this channel is getting. More so the philosophical tidbits to understand various topics better. The insights are very much helpful in going through life and sometimes it feels profound.
Didnt know much about aromantics, really interesting. I always love seeing people shape and define their own reality.
@olisunvia I like how you pointed out how the aroace perspective on love conflicts with what Dr. Jenkins said. I feel like most people would either fail to make the connection or shrug and let it slide because she’s a doctor and they’re not. Keep up the good work, you’re going to save the world one day!