Punching a hole in RMA Armor?
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2023
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News has come out that RMA armor has lost its certification from the NIJ. So, we dragged out one of my plates and hit it with M2 AP 30-06 ammo, the stuff they use to certify the plates. How does it do? - Розваги
NIJ doing RMA dirty really makes you wonder if those Hesco certs that got pulled were on the level. With the two most popular sources of civilian ballistic rifle armor being discredited by the NIJ it's almost like there's a concerted effort to shake consumer confidence. A shadow ban if you will.
I think this is a legitimate point.
Plot twist: An RMA competitor is paying NIJ to decertify them
@vicdiaz5180 I wouldn't doubt this at all. What you're saying is completely feasible.
@vicdiaz5180 so much like everything else? Government goes to the highest bidder, health goes to the highest bidder, food goes to the highest bidder.
I think it's more than that. I believe this is a prelude to a government lawsuit against RMA and others based on "consumer fraud." Can''t have private citizens as well protected as the government agents sent to take their property.
It's a very strange case for sure...
NIJ doing RMA dirty really makes you wonder if those Hesco certs that got pulled were on the level. With the two most popular sources of civilian ballistic rifle armor being discredited by the NIJ it's almost like there's a concerted effort to shake consumer confidence. A shadow ban if you will.
The Yankee Marshal wants his 🫂 hug
RMA probably didn’t give them their 10% during the shakedown.
To imply that a US federal agency would demand a 10% bribe is a most scurrilous piece of defamation, good sir.
It's 20%.
@@Del_S My deepest apologies for defaming and slandering our glorious federal saviors.
@@Del_Syou guys only pay 20%?
You beat me to my what I was thinking. Actually witnessed "soft" payoffs in the form of "appreciation gifts" before.
For the big guy?
Makes you wonder what they're hiding by not telling them why they pulled the cert.
or RMA is playing dumb hoping that with enough PR it will go away...RMA never provided an image of the failed plate and Serial Number together, only those two things separately which proves nothing. Leaving nothing to warrant further investigation (except from people who bought plates from them during the same time period)...coincidentally they simultaneously launched their 1165 model, so if the former were true, it implies that discontinuing the 1155 wasn't a big deal to them and that this may have been their intention all-along. Thus, leaving those who bought 1155s from them this year holding plates with a 25% failure rate...
@@JB-uk7mn and let’s not forget they also pulled Hesco’s cert. those are two of the biggest civilian suppliers of body armor. Coincidence?
One does wonder if the answer is "politics."
Rma definitely provided pics of the plate tested that had the cert pulled. It’s all over their ig page…
My cousin works for RMA. He actually is doing alot of the paperwork on this & says they are going to fight the NIJ all the way to federal court if they have to. This is BS & they've never had a plate fail in independent testing. The RMA website has a notice about they're take on this issue if anybody wants to check it out for themselves.
Can't trust government, there should be an independant private entity rating armor.
lol You trust corporations? That’s crazy.
@@coolbreeze2.0-mortemadfasc13
Ah, an amateur of false dichotomy, I see.
I trust corporations only on the basis of the classical / pre-industrial meaning of the term i.e. a self-governing body naturally stemming from the free association of both workers and masters from every concurrent actor of the trade, in the interest of advancing technologies, apprenticeships, and business practices accross the board.
In the meantime, voting with my wallet is usually satisfying.
I'm sure "they" are attempting to dissuade us all from purchasing this stuff. Pulling certifications might help instill doubt in a potential sale.
In addition to wanting us all disarmed, unarmored is likely another goal.
Great test/review! 🇺🇸
Democrats with funny hats want you to be defenseless to the hordes of military age men they're importing to create a war
RMA has stopped everything I've thrown at it including .22-250 with M855A1 STEEL TIPPED projectiles at 3600 fps
The only thing I've been able to push through 1155s from RMA are custom turned .243 Win 87 grain tungsten cored projectiles.
I use tungsten welding rods with 7mm copper round stock, milled down to .243 with the shaped tungsten rod pressed into the center of the round stock.
They move at roughly 3600 fps as well, and the tungsten core BARELY penetrates.
Nice to see you outside on your range. Always a great watch. Thanks for all your hard work.
These are the kinds of tests I love to see, it helps me in my confidence when looking at what plates to buy as a first time buyer. I planned to do tests myself but that is kind of expensive but it's worth ensuring my own life, rather buy and test then bite the bullet when I need reliability. Thank you for making these videos as this is as real as it gets when it comes to if it's a quality product or not
NIJ is just another three letter agency. There are plenty of plates and companies that are plenty good without the cert. you can buy the same plates just not NIj certified for much much less.
That plate is working more to protect than the government
I served with Blake Waldrop (founder and owner of RMA) in the Marine Corps.
He's one of the most stand-up guys, and proud patriot, I've ever met.
I've only owned his plates and even wear them in my line of work. Additionally, I not only trust them with my own life, but the life of my wife, as well.
Thanks for keeping it honest, shredding the online trolls, and proving that the NIJ are not on the level.
Everyone should consider these questions: how many politicians are trying to ban body armor? Why are they doing it? If they can't outright ban body armor, how can they minimize civilians' access to it?
Compromising the NIJ process, for those companies who proudly serve and protect an armed populace, is the same as restricting access to ammo - the anti-Constitution politicians will look for any backdoor to restrict the Right of the People to keep and bear arms against a tyrannical government.
Semper Fidelis.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
"I am not going to put my finger in there ..." - followed immediately by putting finger "in there" - 🙂
RMA Armor is amazing.....Thanks Mac & Jason 👍
Old Flying Shoe🇺🇸
I just bought a pair of 1155MC, and would do it again. Very impressed.
Based on what I can find, the only RMA plate that got it's certification pulled was the Lvl 4 Model 1155 plate.
That's the plate he's shooting in this video. It's also the same plate that saved my bacon overseas. Have it framed, in storage while I'm moving. 1155s are safe. I bet my life on them then, and I wouldn't hesitate to do so today.
Great video, Tim
Great video Mac
"I don't want to stick my finger in there because the ceramic is razor sharp"
*immediately sticks finger inside*
😂
Had me a little concerned at the start of the video as I run those exact plates in my carrier. By the end of the video, I was even more pleased with my purchase. Hadn't heard about the cert being pulled. Thanks for frontrunning this before people, including myself, go out and waste money on new plates.
You shouldn't run them, they don't have legs.
I also use these plates, I appreciate everyone jumping on this controversy
Dude, it's October, put a pumpkin head on that manikin and give it a name.
MAC, when did you start wearing armor? You used to say that you didn't wear armor because it would take a well placed shot to even hit the armor rather than other areas of your body and that you thought the weight and mobility compromises were too much compared to the benefits of wearing armor.
I believe NIJ stamdards are shotnat 45 feet, so 7 yards is pretty spectacular. I personally use these plates, and I recommend them to everyone. Once i can afford to get more plates, I plan to do a test as well.
Considering it stopped M855A1 from a 20" after 2 of the AP 30-06 is extremely incredible. Level 3+ won't stop that A1 round from a 16" barrel. Truthfully I would trust a plate that stops M855A1 from a 20" over the 30-06. A1 especially from a 20" is seriously no joke. That's a steel bullet going like 3200fps.
Watched the WeLikeShooting YT episode with RMA, and man is that eye opening!! Insane.... but what do we expect from Gov and Gov entities
RMAs 1155s are some of the best if not the best wallet friendly level 4 plates. The amount of back face deformation alone is hard to beat.
Just remember, we are talking about government entities.
@dv8322those labs work on behalf of the government...
@dv8322 And let me guess, the NIJ's transparency on how independent and third party these labs are is "trust me bro"?
I’ve gotta get this armor!!
"Civilian's equipment is as good or better than ours, so let's just discredit them by taking away their certifications to try to take them out of business."
Sounds about right
Very impreesive velocitay from the Hellyonn 😂
I have the same plates and they appear to be working just fine to me definitely sounds like some sketchy shit going on I am however looking into getting some lighter weight plates as the RMA is pretty damn heavy but you can definitely trust your life to but now it is all done and must be thrown away that is another reason I'm looking for steel plates that are lighter and have good spall coverage looking into the RTS reses system at present don't think they are any lighter but would definitely last longer and take more hits great video as always Tim keep them coming
How can you tell your plates are working just fine? 😂 😆
@@PeterHinkle I meant from the test they seemed to function as intended 😂😂😂 guess I should have worded that a little better or I could mean mine do not seem to be dumping ceramic material out of them 🤔🤣😁
M.A.C. certified works for me.
Someone at the NIJ has stock options riding on RMA competitor getting a contract!
What the heck. He pulled out a garand clip while whipping out a springfield 1903
Buffman Range has hands down, the best armor testing videos on UA-cam! He has tested tons of RMA armor and many other brands.
I just tested the same lot
Of these plates this week :)
ROTFLMAO.. If you haven't taken cover your doing something wrong😂😂😅😅.. im still laughing..
Packin ol dw I see…I put some blue vz’s on my 10mm ss. The brown matches my x300 better though..need to get tier 1 to make me a kydex holster for x300 to go on safariland qls…ever tried the 135noslers Tim? I handloaded a bunch and there wicked
Maybe they missed their monthly payment.
Big guy didn’t get his 10%
Hey Now Mac 👍🏼
Id say thats a solid proof of quality. And all done on camera. NIJ id like a quarter as much clarity?
I got these plates. Lemme test em
This is a good reason to have any plate in a frag-bag.
15:27 Anyone else think of Ralph Wiggum from the Simpsons/Family guy skit when he said that? Anyone? No?
What's the competing contract?
Dang, MAC I must be chopped liver. 😢
RMA sales just went up 65%
civilians should do certifications bc we are brutal with armor
Looks good to me.
Tim, I have a question. I have heard that when people test body armor and don’t attach it to something of the equivalent weight of the human body, the test doesn’t mean much because without the weight of the body behind the plate acting as oppositional force, the bullet won’t penetrate nearly as much. Have you not heard this?
Physics wise, this does make sense… but then I ask is this test rig 100% flushed up against a wall where there is ZERO room for the person & plate to fall backwards upon being shot?
While a “175lb ‘average’ person” providing ‘normal force’ opposite resistance is far greater than a plate sitting with a 12lb block of clay only, the ability to fall backwards or to slide backwards on the table will dissipate energy transfer nonetheless… … …
(Unless my engineering degree in progress is offering me a false perspective, which it could be…)
Im not tim but thats correct. Imagine you put the plate on a rope and shoot it. The plate moves back. If you have it against a brick wall it will not move. All the force will go straight into the plate instead of dissipating through the plate when it is able to move freely. Physics.
@@user-jy9vx7yv7u yea, the ones I’ve seen, they use the heavy clay to act as a body but the clay can slide back if there is enough force, it’s not up against a wall.
Many people think that but if you look at testing it doesn't matter if it is hanging by a rope or against a brick wall. It will penetrate before any opposing force has time to react ....simple physics
Rigid mounting allows max energy deposit on the plate representing Worst case scenario.
The char helped asorebed the force
I wonder if it is something to do with their newer manufactured plates.
AS advertised. Stops M2AP Ball
Its hard buying good armor. Everyone has some kind of issue
Just goes to show, Government isnt your friend lol. Thanks Mac
John Wick approved.
Three rounds of 556 in a small area will go thru.
Now you have to buy a new plate, as well as a chair. Thank you.
Mannequin got a vibe check. Oof da.
👍👍
THat recoil looked real low...
What was the barrel twist on that 20 inc gun you used the m855a1 in please
I did buy the RMA because of yours and Mikes videos about it. Also i bought the AR500 and both are level IV... So i am glad to see the plates are fine! NYET, ARMOR IS FINE!!!
Wasn't the NIJ meant to be moving to a newer system of naming with some adjustments to standards sometime in 2018? They ever actually get around to that or have they just decided to start failing all body armour so they don't have to?
NIJ 07. Not published yet. level IV becomes RF3
I have no issues trusting my life to my 1155's
What if the old plates (like the ones you shot) were totally fine, and its the new plates that are junk?
Thus was my EXACT thoughts! Like RMA started having quality control problems, or just a bad batch of plates, or a bad batch of the glue or ceramic in the plates. The old ones like in MACs vest would be fine, but new plates or even just one batch of plates could be compromised in some way. Idk if that's true or even possible, but it SEEMS logical. Or at least a question that should be asked.
Mrgunschannel I think he is called shot a plate made in September of 2023. It passed easily.
Do you have any theory to why they would have revoked it
My problem with the NIJ tests is that I don't believe that AP technology has not improved since WWII. I think a more accurate test would be modern AP rounds. I would like to see how
I suspect some of the hot rod tungsten core rounds would kill most level 4 plates.
@@brandonl8039 that is what I was thinking. I know Al-Qeada got improved AP rounds during our time in Iraq. The Russians are constantly improving the 7.62 R.
Back face deformation is very important.
The bulge is actual bigger during the energy transfer, causing massive internal injury.
Please find UA-cam armor tests that use clay.
Jack Dines from Tacticon did a great video explaining why clay is used.
Backface Deformation is not accounted for during Follow-up Inspection and Testing. I do believe that BFD and clay is important though. When you really dig into the NIJ standards, a lot of it doesn't make sense, like why wouldn't they measure BFD during the FIT test. Or why do you do a water submersion tests on FIT's, but the don't do a drop test?
I think the 7.62 caliber would have the same penetrating power as 5.56, if you gave it significantly more powder charge.
Is it possible there's an issue with new production plates?
Until the issue is resolved, I would say yes.
Tim, wouldn’t that last shot near the top of the plate have produced upward spalling that *COULD* have seriously injured or killed the wearer? The spalling that came out the sides after the M855A1 hits would have been less of an issue, unless the brachial artery was in the direct path of the spalling. But spalling out of the top of a plate can punch a hole in the carotid artery or jugular vein; not to mention (depending on the angle of the wearer's head) facial structures or even the brain. So how much of the ceramic material do you think was expelled out of the top of the place?
And to be clear, I’d rather have a plate, even with a risk of spalling injury, than to not have one at all.
Typically Ceramic and polyethylene armor decrease the speed of the fragments so that if it does escape its not going quick enough to kill or seriously hurt you. Unlike with steel armor.
Spalling from small arms is a massively overstated issue. The alternative was you eat a live bullet intact going at full spread with full energy. The little fragments that come out are too small and don’t have enough energy to do any real damage beyond a little bit of prickling.
Buffman Range did a really good video on this and his 2 plates passed with one going over the spec velocity.
This tells me that bribery was involved.
The NIJ IV test requires 1 shot of 166 grain M2 AP .30-06 shot at a velocity range of 2,800 to 2,900 ft/sec from a 49.2 ft. distance. Most WWII ammo will shoot well below the NIJ velocity range due to its old age. This video is not really a valid NIJ IV test. - Close Focus Research
Is it over kill to run this with levle 3 and a trama pad
Little issue with this. That plate was made before the failure took place. The only way to know for sure is to take a plate from that lot rather then one before or after the NIJ cert issue. SS109 is steel penatrating tip it doesn't make it a true "steel core" round. The magnet is picking up the steel in the tip rather than the whole bullet core that is still 75% lead. 7.62X54R LPS has been more devistating to plates that have found their way from USA to Ukrainian front. Also, followed by the 7N13. The plate that I had from them (1155) bought from around the same time (manufactured from the lot afterwards) as the cert got pulled did not stop M193, M855, M855A1, and the ceramic was not even close to being edge to edge coverage. Again having a plate from 2021 when the failure happened in 2023 is like showing a UA-cam video of it being shot from 2020 it doesn't make it true and gives it a conditional bias.
Not surprising at all. I'm sure they would love to ban all body armor. But those plates could definitely take what they were rated for - and much more.
Corruption in a government alphabet agency NAAAHHH!!
Just playing Devils Advocate here: Maybe new Batches of the RMA plates are not of the same quality as the ones you have in your own plate carrier??? I have no idea if thats the case. I just cant see how the NIJ would pull their certification for no reason.
Blake from RMA did a great interview on the We Like Shooting podcast on 9/27 episode 525. Please listen to it. A lot of shady stuff happened
The 1155 had a randomly selected plate pulled tested and failed. Nij will inevitably post its test results . It's not particularly hard to look. They aren't the only ones losing certification. If you are enrolled in the program for the last year multiple plates and other products have been getting kicked and rejected.
Anyone seen any videos of 8.6 Blackout vs Level IV plates?
There’s no chance of it penetrating level IV. Not first hit
Wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the certification process is getting fucky because of the government getting involved where they don’t belong.
Mega based armor. I hope this injustice gets corrected.
What was your sidearm today? Looked like a 1911.
Why would you shoot the armor on a lawn chair? please put the plate up against a rigid backstop that won't move so the plate is forced to absorb the entirety of the energy from the round, not spend a fair portion tipping the chair over.
Why not go with a NIJ approved armor? Why is everyone running to RMA defense? Are you saying no matter if NIJ passes or doesn’t pass all body armor is capable of stopping whatever they say? Why not just change to something approved until RMA gets third party certified? If NIJ is biased to the point of removing certification one way how can we trust anyone anymore. Obviously MAC shot the thing and it over exceeded but then wtf is going on
LMAO!!!😊
🤔 Count your blessings! Have you been in many protracted fire fights? Well...good luck with that?
Probably shot laser beams at it. So now theyre not certified anymore if they cant stop lasers 😂😅
Is .308 a good caliber? I would love to see an automatic rifle with it (and the .45).
A long range version of .45 I mean
Are your plates new? Is it that there older plates are good to go but there new ones are not and thats why they lost their certification? Just curious
What's NIJ stand for guys, I'm a brit so have no idea
Punching a hole in Return Merchandise Authorization????
I don’t like your test Tim, I would like to see that test again with the plate mounted on a torso style backstop, say a sandbag, a builders bag of sand or ballast. I don’t see a test without resistance being very useful.
Is there another (keyword:) *trustworthy* lab that accredits armor manufacturers? Maybe manufacturers should just start leaving the NIJ alone since this seems to have happened to hesco too.
Maybe they got a bad plate and that’s the issue. I’d trust it, still wouldn’t want to get shot even with it on
Why did the mk47 vid get taken down?
It's not suppose to be released until November. Probably posted it on accident
@@rawtoon2000 it cut off while i was watching