Making the Switch to Water-Based Paints: How to Paint over Oil-Based Woodwork
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- So, picture this: you're standing in front of a wall or a piece of furniture, brush in hand, ready to unleash your inner Picasso with a fresh coat of paint. But wait, what's this? The previous paint job was done in oil-based paint? Oh dear.
Fear not, my paint-splattered friend, for I have just the solution for you! If you want to switch to a water-based paint system but the previous coat was done in oil-based paint, there are a few things you need to do first.
First, you'll want to give the surface a good clean to remove any dirt, grime, or old paint that might be lurking around. Once it's all spick and span, you'll need to sand it down a bit to give the new paint something to grip onto. This step is crucial, otherwise your beautiful new paint job might start peeling or flaking off in a matter of days.
Now, it's time to apply a grip/adhesion primer/undercoat. This will help the water-based paint adhere to the oil-based paint underneath. Let it dry completely before applying your water-based paint of choice. And voila! You're all set to paint to your heart's content, with the added bonus of not having to deal with harsh fumes and difficult clean-up associated with oil-based paint.
So go forth, my fellow paint enthusiasts, and let your creativity run wild with your newfound knowledge of switching from oil-based to water-based paint systems!
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Hi Phil, Firstly, thank you for sharing your wisdom on so many decorating challenges, first class pal 👍 Now for my question. You suggest Zinsser 123 as a grip coat option, and go on to say 7- 10 days before fully cured, (therefore no point scratch testing prematurely). Are you recommending 123 should be left 7-10 days to fully cure, before uc and 2 top coats are applied? Again, much obliged to you!
Hi. No, once it dried you UC and when that's dry, top coat.
Also look at the new Aqua BIN.
Other Paints have Primer/UC that have adhesion properties to them without needing a dedicated grip primer.
Isomat All Primer and isolac UC are good.
Capraol HaftPrimer is another.
Haft, means grip in German I've been told.
You're a star, cheers Phil!
Based on your positive product test, I've actually got Bedec primer u/c and the "hand in glove" satin. In your opinion, would the Bedec primer u/c have sufficient adhesion properties, (like the isomat etc), when applied to properly prepared, oil based gloss doors?
@@stevehinson4957 that's very good too. Being proper acrylic you'll be impressed. Give the gloss the usual good sand to give it a key and dust off.
Otex solvent primer is a good un, dark colours, otex akva light colours
I think my biggest problem with painting before I watched you Phil was the amount of paint I was trying to put on a door skirting in one coat, cheers for the demonstration and information
Thank you so much Phil for all your help. From tools selection, correct materials to choose from to perfect technique to apply it, you are a great inspiration and amazing teacher helping people like me to achieve best results. Keep going please !
Fantastic! Thank you. Comments like yours make it all worthwhile..... Haters gonna hate though :(
Haftprimer is bullet proof Phil. And online multibuy options means its a great price too. Only issue is if youre spraying it needs around 1800 psi or more to atomise well and recommended thining is only 5% . It rubs down beautifully. I use it all the time over oil surfaces and it's never failed.
Something I've never done. But I've not had any problems so far going over old oil base paints. Just using the waterbase undercoat then top coat.
Thanks for the video 📹
Great point! modern paints are changing how we paint.. go back years.. over gloss, you'd do acrylic Uc the a coat of oil gloss.. sorted.
now.. with water based being a mix of who knows what, I like to start with the best grip out there. nd work from that. better be safe than sorry. it also dries fast so doesn't add too much extra time.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator I'm going to try it that way next time.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator have a try of that wrx matt wall paint. Be carful though. I had a nightmare with it cracking on the caulking. I wasn't able to get the red devil stuff. But 3 different brands good ones to. Thin beads left 24hrs still cracking on me. They sent me new tins incase it was the paint. Same issue 😪
Hi Phil. Just come across your channel and find your knowledge and advice extremely good. As a painter and decorator for over 30 years I find paint technology has come a long way. especially since all the nasty additives have been removed. I personally feel we're all being ripped off from manufactures with now hundreds of products on the market claiming to do this that and the other. Granted some are good and some are bad. The main point is that these paints are very expensive and you have to take into account what your customer wants and what they are happy to pay for. I personally charge per job rather than a day rate and there are so many things to take into account. Take a customer with a dark stained staircase that they now want white or it's currently white and want stripped and stained? Both time consuming. Paint strippers are rubbish these days, umpteen different fillers on the market when good old Tetrion does most things, Paints for this, paints for that. What happened to good old simple Mat or Silk? Gloss or satinwood? Granted technology and times change but it's hard to keep and with it all and as I said previously, it's a rip off.
Awesome.. how did you find me?
Please watch this video if you've not seen it yet.. give me your thoughts
ua-cam.com/video/HOK8oMFu2P4/v-deo.html
I've lots of videos you'll more than likely enjoy.
Happy New Year
Hi Phill loving the content on your channel. Ive learned some good stuff from you, ive an idea for you, have you thought about doing a video on painting radiators ? Thats something a lot of us would like to do better 👍
That will be coming... Just I've had powder coated ones recently and not needed painting.
Past couple of years I have been given a really good key and straight on with scuff x
That's nice paint.
Clear as mud.
water base paints mainly being white is future it dont smell it drys fast and it dont go yellow over time .. my best grip primer i only use it caprol half primer 👍
a proper gloss finish is still the stumbling block with WB paints.... Hybrid is the nearest you get.
Very good video good information thank 👍
@@glenbond3066 thanks
Great timing Phil as I’m about to paint the HSL over Easter, all WB over oil, just need to choose between the Aqua Guard satin finish and Dulux Heritage eggshell that you recommended to me 👍🏻
Flip a coin.... Both nice paints to apply.
the Heritage I used a few weeks ago, it's the nearest to an oil based finish I've seen in a while from a wb paint.
I used a grip primer, then the heritage UC the. Two top coats of Heritage eggshell. Mainly to get a good build up on new and poor woodwork.
If the woodwork is good, you can just go with two coats of top coat.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator woodwork is sound but I was tempted to use a two in one acrylic primer/undercoat anyway since I’ve had good results with this in the past when using oil based satin
Oil based eggshell or satin are self undercoating, so you won't need an undercoat first.
Only spot prime areas that's are chipped or damaged.
I'm painting over some oil based gloss doors on a staircase tomorrow, I'll be using Bullseye primer followed by Jonos aqua satin. I have no idea why people love oil based gloss and eggshell so much, stinks like hell, takes ages to dry and inevitably goes yellow!
Do a review test on the calporol halft primer . Good stuff
Still waiting to be reached out to. May have to buy a can myself.
So far I have used Zinzzer 123 then the Johnsons Aqua system with their undercoat. Will be using some little greene eggshell soon. Not sure whether to just go two coats on top of the Zinzzer or get some of their ASP, which I think doubles up a bit.
123, then go with the little Greene UC and then two of the LG eggshells
Cheers, I thought that might be best, it's what I did when 'up cycling' some bedside tables from shiny custard cream colour to lovely dark green eggshell!
Regarding curing time, I assume you don't leave the Zinzzer to fully cure before the next steps. I never have due to time, I wonder if there would be a y benefit of doing so.
Best when you get to remove it all like eraser rubber because they added WB with out any preparation.
as they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing
It's not very nice to use but I often apply Zinsser Cover Stain as grip primer. Never fails and sticks really well! Crown Fastflow Eggshell goes over it nicely too.
that will stick well, would you not try a wb for faster drying time?
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator I do also use Zinsser 123 but if going over old oil-based gloss I prefer Cover Stain.
TOO much jabbering talk, just get with it
Dulux Trade QD undercoat is a great primer, based on Sikkens formulation. Let it cure for 12-14 hours…. Great adhesion primer under water based top coats.
This one ua-cam.com/video/PXT_BWHPiWc/v-deo.html
I’m about to try the Bradite one can as it’s supposedly a primer/finish in one. Also heard scuff x is self priming too
Yes. I've tried a few sample tins on a rental.. sand down, dust off, coat up.. two coats.
Like AllCoat Exterior and Bedec MSP.
It's good.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator nice one il try them both 👍
Sorry Phil but you still can’t beat oil. The biggest complaint people come out with is that it will yellow. It sure will yellow but you use a decent oil it won’t be noticeable for years. By the time it’s yellowed your waterbased would’ve chipped and/or worn off. Oil will cover and stick to a multiple of sins and it’s 1, 2 and even 3 less coats!
Long drying times? Has it been a problem over the past 100 years? It certainly hasn’t been a problem over the past 20 years for me. I’m at home while it’s drying!
The smell? I make worse smells. If you’ve ever worked on a building site there’s even worse smells than I can make!
The finish? Far far superior with oil. Brush marks/orange peel will simply melt away even for a novice painter and the shininess is unrivalled
Two questions... 1. What waterbase have you used.
2. Do you spray oil?
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator I’m not sure what them 2 questions have to do with my opinion other than trying one-upmanship and “I’ve tried more and spray so my opinion is more valid than yours” but here goes.
1. Tikkurila (the worst as the whites look yellow). Scuff-x (hardly any shine and adhesion is questionable). Diamond satinwood (good shine and nice white but chips too easy). Bedec (one of the better ones but requires at least 1 extra coat). Various others that I haven’t thought much of but those are the usual suspects that I can think of.
2. As a professional painter & decorator you should know not to spray oil. Spraying is brilliant for empty properties but otherwise it’s for people who can’t keep up
@@gdpaintingdecorating5704 interesting reply. It would be good to get others thoughts on it too.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator I’d like to one day see an honest video about waterbased vs oil. Not just trying different waterbased but also different oils without going straight into it with a closed mind and geared towards waterbased from the start.
Also I’d like to see an honest video of spraying vs brush and roll where they can actually brush and roll at a decent pace and they also take into account masking up, setting up and cleaning out sprayer etc.
C’mon Phil make some videos for the normal painters and not internet only ones! 😂 I’m sure you’ll get more subs and views for it!
@@gdpaintingdecorating5704 what decent oil based paints would you recommend?
Great informative videos always
Thanks 👍
Very interesting and informative mate, nice one
Glad you enjoyed it
Cheers Phil that's really good to know for a novice like myself! On a slightly related note.. I had to fill some pretty large gaps between exposed brickwork feature wall and ceiling. When I sanded it back I exposed some of the plaster on the ceiling. Will I be OK to paint zinsser BIN over it then use emulsion? Cheers for all your help
You don't need BIN, it's just bare plaster. Thin your emulsions, touch it in, if there's any filling needed. Fill it, sand down as required. Spot prime it again over the filler with the emulsion. Then paint over it as normal.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator cheers Phil that's a massive help. You are a total legend. 👍🏻👍🏻
Hi Phil, I am new to paint and glad that I found your channel, very informative. Forgive me asking a silly question - I just bought a house, and the white gloss painted doors and skirt boards that are not light facing are yellowish, I suspect they are with oil base paints. I would like to paint them again with water base satin paints. I understand the best practice is to sand them first, then apply primer, and next with under coat, then 2 x top coats. Because I have tight time frame to move in, would it be alright if I just paint primer (Zinsser 1-2-3) directly without sanding (but I have cleaned the surface already), and then apply top 2 x coats (Leyland Trade Fast Drying Satin White) on the primer? Any issue I may face if so? And is these combination of paints alright? TIA
You've found me now, that's all that matters.
If time is tight, look at a Multi Surface paint.
Like Bedec MSP or Zinsser AllCoat.
Sand down and coat up, two coats.
No need for a primer it's all built in.
Loads of videos I've got on different paints.. please have a look later.
There's other paints you could use that do a primer/undercoat then you finish with two top coats of the finish product you want.
Loads to look at.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator Thank you Phil, your advice helps me a lot! Looking at the information of Zinsser Allcoat, it mentioned okay even without sanding on glossy surface, and just 2 coats that's all. Will look for more info in you youtube about Bedec MSP and Zinsser AllCoat before buying it. Thanks!
@@benkplau i'd still give a sand for a key. ;)
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator Noted will do that then :) One more question, as an amateur, I found brush marks are quite obvious when using brushes, can I use roller on door panel instead? If yes, what type of roller material should I use to apply MSP/Allcoat? Thx again
Nice work mate!
Thank you! Cheers!
Thank you! Cheers!
Thank you for this and sorry for being thick so am i right
1. Sand down
2. Put bullseye 123 or similar
3. Put an aqua satin paint like johnstones Aqua or Dulux
All done?
Nothing needed between the bullseye and the satin aqua?
Thank you sooooooo much
Yes.
Some paints already use adhesion properties in their primer/UC.
Like Isomat, so you wouldn't need 123 (etc or equivalent) as the Isomat UC will be enough, then two top coat.
Realistically, if I sand down and remove all Sheen on old oil based skirts and doors etc, could I paint straight over them with dulux diamond satinwood? Or should I prime or undercoat beforehand?
yeah, you'll be ok... two coats though.
I prefer to get a base Uc on now when moving from oil to water based though.
The quick dry paints are terrible I find like. Diamond satinwood, acrylic eggshell farrow and ball and johnstones aqua paints are the best water based I’ve used but there’s some terrible ones. Not as effective as coverage as oil based or hard waring but stay white much longer.
you're on about white water based paint?
There's plenty very good water basd paints that will outperform oil based paint.. quick drying, no smell, fast turn around better finish.
have you watched this?
ua-cam.com/video/BOXR3LrF_ws/v-deo.html
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator the quick fry dulux paints I’ve used have been terrible for opacity and the quick dry primer undercoat
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator I might have a look at that CIN tho never used that before
@@adammac4960 in Portugal! :(
Thanks
No problem
Phil what’s your verdict on the caparol primer I’ve got 82 new front doors to spray up before fitting , I’m trying to get the best system got the job ???
I'm yet to be given a sample can.
Paintwell and Brewers are now selling it, so I may have to buy my own tester cans 😢
When you say front doors do you mean exterior doors and also what is the substrate of the doors are they hardwood or composite
I can't tell you how helpful your channel is. Thank you so much.
I have a question about painting onto varnish, I guess it's the same process as in this video. I'm trying to save money, so wondered if I can get away with using Zinsser 123 as an undercoat for Bedec Aqua Advance Satin, skipping the Bedec primer/UC. Or maybe using the Bedec primer/UC without the Zinsser123. If I can buy two pots of paint instead of three that would be great.
I have sanded and cleaned the varnish in preparation.
how about using Bedec MSP?
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator That does look like a very good option. I'll go with that, thank you. I'm curious though, does it have any downside?
@@peepiepo prep well.
It's good stuff.
Fully cured after 30 days.
Easy to apply and great finish. Goes over virtually anything.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator Sadly I'm getting some brown staining coming through in some places. I didn't realise some woods are a problem. I should have paid more attention to the label. Any recommendation on what to block the stains with? I'd really like to stick with water based. Maybe the Zinsser123?
@@peepiepo check the can on 123+ and BIN Aqua
I've been impressed by Leyland Trade water-based gloss/satin. Cheap but does a good job.
Would there be any issues using BIN instead of 1-2-3 as a primer? Better adherence, or overkill?
Shouldn't be. But BIN is horrid to brush as it dries so fast being spirit based.
Only use BIN when you need to use BIN. LoL
123+ will do most things... Apart from seal knots.
I have been using Whitson adhesion primer on oil based finishes
I have scratch and masking tape tested the primer an hour after applying and just can't believe it bonds so well
If you have a gloss door or window cill, that is not full of paint boogies and has a good finish, you can paint on without sanding first.
I have tried many times to see if it will fail and so far it's worked very time.
I'm not saying that I don't key woodwork before but this stuff is better imo that tikkurila and caparol
You must test it
Hi Phil, i'm doing my hall, up and down stairs quite a big hall way with lots of doors just wondering what sort of coverage I'd get out of 1 ltr of Otex Akva. what do you recommend. PS Is the tinted the same product? could you recommend a tint for mouses back. I'm still going to use F&B Undercoat but I want the primer coat to be a different color than the whit I'm going over so I can see the coverage.
Hi.
Don't worry about tinting the primer.
The f&b uc over it and two top coats of f&b modern eggshell won't show a white through.
You can use otex Akva or Zinsser 123.
Or 123+
Or the new Aqua BIN.
They'll all give a good grip coat base over previously oil painted woodwork
So in a house full of yellowed 30 year old gloss would a good rub down, BIN pover any problem patches, zinser 123, 2 x bedec aqua advance bring it upto scratch? I think if i put 4-5 coats over i'd need to plane all the doors and refit all the stops 😂
lol, it's added insulation lol
I see no need to BIN, then 123.
some paint's Uc/Primer have adhesion properties too.. like Isomat Aqua, you can get away with that, then two top coats.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator thank you, I'm excited to bin off the oil and give this a go. You should do a video on how to sheet up and work as clean and efficiently as a pro when doing lots of rubbing down etc
Just get it on
The only thing that gets me is the 4 coats, if Iv gotta do a whole house or a big hall/stairs that’s all been done in oil, the thought of pricing or having to do 4 coats just to use water based does not sound good, I don’t mind using oil and would prefer to use that and do two coats and be done, even if water is easier and quicker kind of, I’m definitely just as quick using oil. I don’t know. Water is good if it’s previously water or all fresh timber.
I've been using a coat of Zinsser Bullseye 123 followed by 2 top coats of Johnstones Aqua Guard, beautiful finish and hasn't let me down yet over old gloss. That's one less coat.
It will depend on what you go over and if you need a build up of paint.
As I said in the video, you can go Otex Akva, and then finish with two Helmi top coats.
My kitchen, I wanted a good build up, so did Otex Akva, then Helmi UC, then two coats of Helmi 30.
Gave me a good solid finish surface. ;)
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator yeah very true, it’s still another coat and to be honest more prep to get oil ready for water doesn’t it.
A quick rub down and just 2 coats of ScuffX.......will leave a great finish.
@@geoffreymeare3406 that’s good to know! It’s self priming etc?
2 QUESTIONS, 1 Is Zinsser B-I-N Aqua any good as a primer in your opinion? 2, do you still need to primer using Dulux Trade Diamond White (water-based) as the product information states that it is self undercoating, asking for adhesion reasons? TIA
hi.
1. yes
2. No, but depending on what you go over (change in colour) it may be worth using a uc to blank out that colour then do your two top coats.
What about exteriors when the weather not so good which is most of the time.heavy shower all down brickwork.😱
In what way do you mean?
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator how long does it take to dry is it shower proof in good time.
@@malcolmmoffat2108 depends. Some waterbase paint is ready to re coat after an hour.
Most are dry in the right weather after 20mins.
Oil, you're holding your breath you don't get a flash down pour that ruins it all day.. leaving craters or a drop in temp and it blooms
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator 👍
This is a great video Phil thank you again.
I was wondering if you could tell me what grit you use to rub down and key the surface for a grip primer.I typically use p120 but do you think it’s better to go with deeper cutting p60 or maybe an 80 when keying the surface? I’m wondering what you use to key gloss, or maybe a previously varnished sold wood interior door for example? when you know you’ll be using a grip primer like 1-2-3, maybe I should be using a paper with a deeper mcut and more aggressive paper, and p120? Thank you Phil. I use something I have learned on your channel at work almost almost every day. Can’t thank you enough and thanks again Phil.
Thanks. Have a watch of some of the videos where I was in Portugal working at a friend's house.. they were varnish doors I gave a light key using 150 and 240 grade Mirka Gold Flex pads.
Normally sanding... 120 is ideal. Go too ruff a grade, you face deep scratching of the surface, that you need to then remove by using finer grades.
A lot of the time worn 120 is enough.
I,ve tried water based paint and been very disappointed. It chips and flakes off and does,nt wear well. I will not use it again.
What did it chip off from, or flake off from?
Did you use a grip primer?
I'm a painter and Decorator and I still prefer oil based paints for woodwork
@@christopherwarner6590 for what reason Chris?
The smell, drying times, yellowing all are negatives for it now days there's so many good wb paints out there... Which aren't the normal ones most think of.
Agree with you Phill regarding water based I have worked hard to test different paints and your videos have been a great help ... once you get used to application excellent results can be achieved...
Is it same for silk paint on walls phill thanks
No, 😊 there's a video in a few weeks about painting over vinyl silk.
@@ProfessionalPainterDecorator ok great thank you
Just looked... It's Monday's video
Out at 6pm
Doris the door tho😣😣😣🫠
i don't understand his kettle rant nonsense
LoL double tapping lol
Appreciate your enthusiasm for what you do… but you need to keep it simple for us mere mortals. You talk too quick and too loud.
90% of your audience will be diy’s - not pro’s.
You completely lost me!
can you turn the volume down?
which bit didn't you understand?