Black Mages are mad because it was one of the few jobs that has complexity to it and the developers seem intent on removing meaningful choices from rotations and just having it be "memorize this sequence and don't deviate."
BLM changes - absolutely hate that the thunder proc. has gone. Half the fun and skill with BLM is adapting to the procs and keeping bits on hand for when you need to move for mechanics. Basically the changes just railroad you into doing a 100% repeatable rotation - not talking about the weird and wonderful alt rotations, just some adaptive variation to the intended one. I don’t see how removing all random procs has any benefit. Also agree with the comments that harder jobs should do more damage - not silly amounts more, just enough to stroke your ego by being top after tanks on the aggro list
I 100% agree. Part of the reason why I loved Sharpcast and EW BLM so much. I had so many options at my fingertips and now it’s just Fire 4 spam with no room for improvising.
I've been playing for over 10 years, things change, I just roll with it. I play what feels good and I never one-trick "main" anything. Sometimes I shelf a job I love for most of an expansion, sometimes a job that feels bad early in an expansion gets fixed midway through. Just relax and push the buttons, no need to have a dedicated monogamous relationship with jobs.
SMN main here. I played back when "SMN is for casuals" was not true and still lament the days of complex dot weaving nad multi-target optimization, but I've resolved to let it go. The biggest complaint I have is that there are many, many janky elements of Summoner that are leftover from the job's inception back in 2.0 that still haven't been addressed, especially when playing SMN below level 60. It honestly feels like they couldn't find a good way to parcel out the abilities to make the job feel like it has a functional rotation before getting Dreadwyrm Trance. If the job really is meant for casuals and new players, I think it's *especially* important that the level-up process is clean and easy, and not just that it has a pretty butt-simple max level rotation. And to my knowledge, they still haven't fixed Physic.
I'm considering switching from black mage to pictomancer. Maybe it's just because picto is new that makes the rotation feels challenging, but new black mage feels so dumbed down. New manafont feels amazing, but losing ice paradox and the lucid dreaming + transpose shenanigas feels like it's lost so much of it's identity as a rule-breaker. Breaking rules is what separates normal magic from black magic, and following a strict rotation is... just antithetical
pretty much this. The new Blm rotation officialy got changed to Fire lll -> Despair -> Transponse -> pictomancer. I always loved the optimizing on blm, Breaking your rotation for the sake of that extra 3% dmg. After switching to Picto now, that one def scratches that itch for now atleast.
I find the new Black Mage to be so friggin boring man. I just got my hands on Transpose lines back in Endwalker, and contrary to popular opinion, I loved Sharpcast. It made the rotation feel so much more complex. Now our rotation at level 100 feels like a glorified version of the lvl 60 rotation. Unbelievable.
What do you mean by "high dps" do you mean high personal DPS or rDPS? If you mean rDPS then you concede that some jobs should be significantly better than others. Making a job easier to play doesn't compensate for it being objectively worse than others if the difference is actually notable
It’s probably a good thing, raids are designed for every job to beat and black mage was probably holding raids back in terms of mechanics why 2 mins becomes the norm
ya ig this makes sense on why its unpopular. Most dont track ppls dps and most dont care about dps so why add complexity to any dps class in order to have it do more damage when dps meters are bannable lol Keeping all job dps balanced based on class utility makes more sense to me which is what they seem to be going for, except with ninja which has good util and amazing dps
SMN being simple doesn't mean it has to be without flavor. It's atrociously bland compared to what it could have been. Three more summons to complete the set of primals and a new summon like Alexander or Odin.
Someone loses no matter what. If you liked old summoner complexity or just because you enjoy DoT management, you dont have anything for that gameplay style in 14 anymore. If they change summoner to be more complex, the people that like summoner for its simplicity get put on the path to losing that.
@@Enis1198 Again, doesn't have to be complex, make them three simple buttons. Viper seems to almost play itself, but they (apparently) made it fun regardless by making it flashy and flavorful. Give SMN the same treatment.
The flavor is the summons. You know, because FF fans that werent even playing summoner said that spell effects ARE job identity. So they stripped the job identity away and gave them oversized summons and oversized spell effects like they were compensating for something theyre ashamed of. They even had to make a command for smaller versions of summons so you can see the floor aoes past bahamuts phat as.
@@mayleelove4332 It doesn't even need to be 3 skins to not ruin the simplicity of SMN. Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan all function identically, but feel different because they cast differently (e.g. Titan does a lot of weaves, Ifrit slow casts, Garuda goes fast). New summons could be as simple as Odin makes you a melee for a few seconds (a la RDM), Leviathan is a long channel-cast (like MCH flamethrower), and Ramuh casts stack up potency for a finisher. It could even have the same rotation by making it so *any* three summons procs the next Bahamut/Phoenix, that way casual players can stick to easy ones they like, and high-skill players can optimize fight planning around having more options.
I’m going to disagree with your points on summoner. I have been maining it since 2.0, and it wasn’t until 6.0 that it was the “easy caster”. It feels bad that a job that used to be considered one of the more technical was simplified to this level. Red mage is also on the simple side and used to fit into the “easy job slot”.
Smn hurts me (shb smn main lol), but I would argue that is currently easiest dps or maybe even easiest job of the game, there is barely anything to manage in general, it lost all of it @-@.
@@futurepastnow it was janky, but it was fun to optimize per fight and force you todo weird shit on ultimates for example, something the new SMN literally has nothing to offer (it had dot management, charges management and pet handling (pre-positioning so he could attack faster)). It was janky yes, it was clunky in some areas, but it had some nice depth compared to other jobs.
As a SMN main since 2.0 every single addition prior to the rework was a nonsensical mess of grab bag mechanics. If you ever died completely ruining your long meandering strange rotation of trance and summon bahamut was weird and dumb. Aetherflow stacks, fester, dots made no cohesive sense with their interactions with trances or fulfilled the class fantasy of a summoner. Egis were also just their own separate little thing that didn't interact with trances OR dots, with some abilities you also just kinda hit for no reason not unlike fester. No cohesive sense in anything it was doing. Yes, it was the easy caster. BLM was far harder to optimize in fights and didn't do it in weird ways. It did in thoughtful ways that required mastery of the encounter despite its rotation being dead easy. SMN's optimizations didn't feel like optimizations. They felt like making the best of a bad situation because it wasn't bad enough having 3-4 minigames wholly unrelated to each other, they also didn't play nice with the encounter design. At least now the mechanics make sense in how they relate to each other in gameplay and aesthetically. We're actually evoking and invoking the power of primals. I also think having a very simple job without a rigid gcd rotation is valuable in the game and if any job had to be that, killing the old incomprehensible and janky smn was a worthy sacrifice.
@@williampounds5191 everything you wrote is all good and all, but "rigid gcd rotation" is the actual current definition of the current smn more than previous iterations... and the reason is there is nothing else you can move on the rotation to adapt (only maybe getting ifrit first and then the other primals once every last fight of each tier).
As someone who learned and loves Freestyle (non-standard) Monk, the issue isn't the guiders on the GCDs, those are actually really nice and make the job a lot less daunting, it's the loss of the double DoTs. Monk has basicslly three (four, but one is very situational) rotations: Normal but you drift a ton, a looping rotation with some small forced losses to loop, and the freestyle rotation you have full control over. Playing freestyle means managing your DoT timers effectively to line them up with Riddle of Fire, and it leads to very interesting situations like how you actually WANT to double refresh Twin Snakes before the last Demolish going into RoF, so that you can do your full PB combo and resume from Oppo (highest damage) without dropping the damage buff. There's also situations where you actually want to Demolish instead of AoE and mix up both single-target and AoE rotarions. The monk changes basically eliminate all of this. It'll play about the same as freestyle, but you no longer have to worry about any of those little complexities because they're just gone. There's one rotation, there's no more timers to take care of, no more interesting tech, no more insane skill expression and high skill ceiling. Is the job dead? Absolutely not. Is it going to be less fun? Probably not that much, honestly. But it's a completely incomprehensible step backwards from a job that was imo already perfect, and it's definitely overcompensating for Monk's image as the hardest melee/job.
Honestly, I didn't really care much for the one dot MNK has. Like I felt like it didn't matter much compared to like BRD. But I'd rather wait and see how it plays before I make any solid judgments.
Honestly as a black mage main that loved nonstandard, I would have understood more if they killed nonstandard but made the leveling/low level experience on the job a lot better and did a better job teaching the flow of it to new players. But... they didn't, really at all, they just killed a fun playstyle that was totally optional, didn't break the game since the DPS gains were pretty small. Instead of a fairly strict job that could become very flexible if you cared to put in a lot of practice, now it's just strict for everyone. In terms of theory crafters finding cool new opti, don't hold your breath. After probably 2000 hours on blm, I'm switching jobs in DT
RE Summoner, I think the real issue with me is that the new summon just doesn't really fit. Instead of replacing normal Bahamut, it instead crams normal Bahamut and Phoenix into the one-minute windows, and takes over the opener and 2-minute entirely. It also looks, imo, quite goofy, and at least thus far, as functionally zilch for lore basis. It would have been _so easy_ for them to make the gems that you get after Phoenix swap into Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva. They could even make them essentially mechanical clones of the existing Titan, Ifrit, and Garuda, with one having a pair of long casts with a two-GCD combo Favor, one having for short-GCD instants with a long-cast Favor, and one having four normal instant GCDs with weaved Favors. They could give those subtle flavor differences, or they could literally just be SFX reskins with the same mechanical effect, and honestly _it would have felt better_ to me. That would at least lean into the "Summoner" archetype, and the existing gameplay build-up over the levels. This weird sword-winged second Bahamut that they just sorta sledge-hammered into the job feels not even half-assed, but something some intern cooked up on a lunch break when they realized they'd forgotten to write down anything for Summoner at all.
Ifrit pared with Shiva lock them in ice as you dash in maby a flavor deep freeze for a sec or so then stomp titan with Ramuh judgement bolt in to shock strike shock strike shock strike shock strike shock strike if you have played the ex you know this is fitting and Garuda with Leviathan with the dread wave that some of the sahagin cast in his fight being the dot zone or aoe buff that dose counter damage for flavor
while i do agree that there should be a casual friendly job, lets not glaze the company and say its a great idea to turn SMN into that job. it was a terrible decision. people who mained smn years before they neutered it have every single right to be pissed off for the rest of their time playing this game, when square could have EASILY turned any NEW job into what your posturing for. its not like the other jobs are genuinely that difficult anyways, it did not take the brain power to play smn before neutering to play drg or whm or half the tanks. none of these are really THAT difficult in comparison to so many other games where they just HAVE to gut anything interesting in FFXIV to get people to play anything. another huge note is the casuals will play literally any job it doesn't matter about usage rates. theyre still likely playing the game sub optimally regardless of whether or not the job is brain dead or astrophysics level, i mean so many casuals fuck up blm rotation on a daily basis but still play the job because they find it fun LOL. it was still a shit decision to turn a more complex job into a simple job instead of just making a new simple job, i dont understand why thats so difficult to grasp. if a job is too difficult for you, go play a different one. dont take years of someone else's dedication to learning it and shove it down the drain because its about what you want. also ast having varying levels of more healing in the cards isn't really a "strong identity", the cards just heal now yippie. on top of the already strong heals it has, that just makes it redundant.
11:58 YES. I COMPLETELY AGREE. Thanks for this video, have been so tunnel visioned forgot to look at everything else coming for DT. One thing I was thinking about looking at all the new toys Healers and Tanks got was that I think Yoshi-P has had enough of us and is going to kill us. I hope the new fights make good use of all the new mit/healing abilities.
I confess I have a bias due to having enjoyed summoner pre rework for several expansions and being a fan of the job in older FF titles. But what was a complex job prior to EW has been reduced to babies first spell caster. What should be represented as technically difficult (rotating through numerous summons and using their abilities) is now mundane and unexciting. And I do kinda agree with the 'it's another bahamut and should've another demi or more summons' argument. The EW rework ideally was the blueprint but I guess it didn't pan out. There are other simple starter jobs, why'd they murder my boi :(
@@GerardSharkeyI honestly had a job identity crisis for the whole ew expansion, they definitely destroyed the job in a way that there is nothing close to what it was. I am glad for casuals that they got the easiest job of the game out of it though, praying that picto is as fun as it looks because that’s were I am aiming.
@@Siul_987 I fear that the picto will lack will lack in any complexity. I want to break my fingers. I want to take more than 2 minutes to learn a rotation.
@@GerardSharkey I agree, I just hope I find something that stays between fun and hard to master, there was something on that old janky smn that I enjoyed a lot (pet management was kind of fun, dots, ruins charges and some other stuff), I have not found that again on the game, I tried to raid with BLM but it never really stuck with me either lol, I have done raids with many mores dancer, bard, sage, ninja, monk and many others :’) . I still miss smn xD
Astro getting some of the original card functions back was nice, I still would like the 3.0 system back, the random nature of the draws and the royal road skills were awesome.
I understand the business case for standardising jobs and their rotations - to make the game as accessible as possible to the largest number of players (particularly new and returning players) and to reduce potential toxicity as a result of either (a) not including a class in your party because it doesn't have a particular ability or (b) shaming players for not min-maxing their rotations or discovering those hidden synergies. The above said, I don't agree with the approach. It essentially turns us into a bunch of interchangeable robots who push buttons in a specific order. We are differentiated in our ability to deal with complex mechanics in Savage fights and such, but for me multitasking is not a function of intelligence. I enjoy when a game allows questions like "how should I adapt my rotation for this particular fight?" rather than accepting that a rotation is just something to distract you in the background while all the real mechanics are happening in the fight and it will always be exactly the same. You know, back in my day (1.0), I had to actually think about how to use a job (like Summoner). *cough* cough
On the topic of dancer, Standard Finish does combo into Last Dance, making doing Standard Step on cooldown still a dps gain over doing filler gcds. But, of course, potencies subject to change for launch.
As someone who played and enjoyed SMN until Endwalker I will say this: S-E took away the identity of the summoner job, which was to apply and spread DoTs and to synergize with various pets. That identity is completely dead. They replaced that very unique identity with a job that's VERY simple, kind of "baby's first DPS job," and now the appeal of the job is that you get bigger, flashier summons that look like mini primals instead of floating lumps. So now it's a flashy, dumb job, and they had an opportunity to make it more interesting, or more flashy, and they did neither one. In reality, they *could* have kept the job identity in EW AND made it flashy, and most summoners would have *loved* that. They didn't do that, okay, much sad, but people who want that already stopped playing it so no big deal. They should have made it sexier though! Now, it's still the most-played job and will probably remain the most-played, because *easy* is *good* when you're trying to learn hard / new content, but that doesn't mean it's a well-designed job. It just means that the job is a good crutch.
I'm honestly fine with summoner's simplicity, but still, no new summons minus Blue Eyes White Bahamut, is very disappointing. We wanted more gem phases, not another Demi-phase.
I kinda wish something more, like being able to cast barrier without the stupid carbuncle (honestly, at this point, I don't mind see the cute little thing get nuked cuz it literally do nothing but cast barrier now. I believe it won't harm summoner's identity because summon in FF series doesn't appear permanently in combat: either in-and-out or only last for some time. But I guess people would miss the blue little thing so it won't happen. I also feel like aside of the new Bahamut, there should be some sort of QoL changes. Like Summoner can choose their Ifrit-phase gap-closer being a gap-closer (animation-lock) or just a normal book-slam (no-animation lock). A finisher that requires you to summon all there of Titan/Ifrit/Garuda to proc, which can be avoid drifting during non-targetable phase by making these summons deal damage around the caster so that summoner can spend summon gems to prep the finisher in down time.
Or maybe even something new to do during the gem phases, literally any change up to all the filler in the middle :(, and the fact solar is the starting and in between each phase we are all gonna get so tired of it
The laziness of solar Bahamut is just astounding....he has no new animations or doesnt do anything, its a literal reskin of bahamut with out putting any actual work. Flaps wings like Pheonix and Bahamut and then little attack big attack of which they all look the same...minus the colors of the attack are different oooooh so unique... Making Summoner so a child can play is a preference some might like....but there is no excusing the lack of effort in just adding bahamut twice with literally doing nothing new....
As someone who only dips their toes into black mage when I'm grinding levels on it or grinding lower level drops, I enjoy the changes to it. The change to ice phase means that you can always get the burst of mana without needing to either wait a step to ensure you get it before swapping to fire phase or risking missing it if you go straight into fire 3. It does technically remove options like gambling on the fire 3 or using thunder to stall for recharge while keeping that uptime but it makes the main route feel better. I also like the changes to thunder, I think leaving the original cast as an option when you don't have thundercloud would have been fine but I didn't like the randomness to Thundercload sometimes popping like 17 times during your fire rotation or popping once in a 2 minute span, and making it consistent is great. It could maybe use a few more ways to proc it or changed ways to alter it than just swapping phases but it's a nice consistency buff and makes it better scathe whenever you have it.
It's not just about standard vs. nonstandard rotation. It's about FREEDOM. Black mage had the freedom to mold their rotation around the fight, or around a death, etc. That freedom, like every other player optimization since Shadowbringers, is deemed unworthy to exist. They've lost their way with job design; let's hope they can turn it around with the 7.2/8.0 job update
I have been a black mage main since I started the game (thaumaturge from character creation). the paradox rotation was the best mage rotation I have experienced in any MMO. It just felt good to perform. that being said, it was not paradox that made me love this job. I trust SE and will keep being BLM all the way to lvl 100 :)
You definitely missed the history of SMN. Interesting take but the class in FFXIV was known as an easy to learn hard to master pet & dot mage class before the Endwalker change. Endwalker made it easy for entry and many Summoner mains who have been with the class back in the beginning was hoping to have some development or at the very least something that takes what we've been doing with the rework further. For new players (not new summoners) they will never know the stress and trains of thought us older SMNs went through on materia/stat management as some slight changes can mess with our damage and buff windows. The 'easy' mage class before Endwalker was RDM. Please consult with people who main a job before making these takes dude
No one is talking about this yet, but I have a feeling we're going down to just one endgame set of gear too, no more crit build, just spell speed. I feel...
I started playing 14 in ShB because of SAM, loved it then but was put off by it in EW (before Kaiten was removed) and never really had a reason to play it. But these DT changes have me scratching my head? They get rid of unique gauge spenders going into EW with only 10/20/25spenders (later reduced to 10/25), just for them to REINTRODUCE a 50 kenki spender but make the original 50 kenki spenders (that were made 25 kenki in EW) 60 seconds? It just feels super redundant to me, like where is the job actually going?
As a fan of new SMN, I disagree with the SMN portion of this video. I think new SMN fans just wanted to see *a* gameplay change this expansion instead of just visual changes to existing moves. We're summoners, we wanted new skins on the *summons* (complete with new quirks for Astral Flow and Gemshine), not a new skin on Dreadwyrm Trance. A new Bahamut is the least interesting change they could have made and, personally, I don't like the Allagan design so an Allagan Bahamut is 🤷🏽♂
The thing about summoners new abilties for me that was underwhelming was with getting another Bahamut to summon in. Would have rather had something else as a larger summon, or having a new set of lesser primals to summon in aside for the base three.
I love the game, but it seems to me that FFXIV players somehow have managed to blind themselves to the fact that there is no customization and no variation in ANY ASPECT of FFXIV gameplay. There's no variation in gear, in materia, in the buttons you hit and the order you hit them in, and there's no variation in where you can stand or when and where you need to move. "Getting good" at FFXIV entails figuring the EXACT details that your Job must follow, every time.
RE: Red Mage, the reduction in cooldown on Swiftcast, afaik, essentially completely negates the issue with GCD shifting. RDMs need one GCD shift per melee combo, since the melee combo itself causes a GCD shift by being ~5 GCDs long. RDMs do a melee combo roughly every 35-40s, since we generate an average of 5.25 mana per GCD during dual-cast, and a melee combo costs a net of 73 mana (the spells in the combo regenerate 27 of the 100 mana it consumed). However, every 2 minutes, we get a bonus free melee combo that provides a free GCD shift on its own, so realistically we only really need 2 GCDs shifts per two minutes. Since we have ~30-40s flexibility on when to actually use the melee combo, due to pooling, Swiftcast at 40s is _more than_ sufficient to provide the odd instacast we need to fix GCD alignment between combos. That said, I do kinda wish they'd just give Fleche and Contra charges already. While managing GCD alignment to maximum CD uptime on them is certainly a form of skill expression, it feels more to me like playing around jank in the system, rather than actual proper job complexity. That's especially the case if they're going to have us depending on a role action for that alignment, a role action that is also often burned on things like rezes.
tldr, you're in favor of ease of use > skill expression. You want to know the best way to learn monk? Actually playing the job. Monk is (was?) the best example of job progression as each thing you learned felt like an addition to your previously obtained knowledge rather than a thing that requires you to change your playstyle (looking at you, Samurai every capstone). Now my time is not rewarded, nor respected. It is now no different than any other melee dps except Ninja. Black Mage has me concerned but makes me wonder if triple or quad flares will be optimal again.
the class doesn't play any differently then it does in EW. They just lowered the skill floor and kept the skill ceiling, you just don't have to juggle buffs anymore, the horror. There's nothing wrong with make a job easier to get into, you still have to do the same thing you were doing since shb, there's nothing different or new about the rotation it's just more clear on how you're suppose to do your rotation
@@lifeiaskedfor That's bs. If they lowered the skill floor than the class plays differently. I don't want to play a simple class in a lake of simple classes in an ocean of simple gameplay. I liked monk because I felt like getting into the job was easy and mastering it took effort because that's how it is. Maybe it'll still be a class worth playing as the skill expression may still be there at high level. Face value, the class doesn't reward effort anymore, so at least it's on the same level as the rest of this game.
@amfrog8277 Lowering the skill floor only affects you if you're at the skill floor. If the job feels the same at the upper end, then making the low end easier is irrelevant except for players picking up the job. Ease of entry is always a good thing; it doesn't mean that it has to be any less complex/ rewarding to master.
@@sharp5hooter499 Too good for the game? It's not a bad thing to want things to be better. Regardless, I already dropped the game. It took a few hours of playing Endwalker that I knew I was done. I came back every now and then and the game still did nothing for me. It's not a "too good for the game" scenario. It's that the game progressed in a direction that I feel is too simplified and unrewarding to the point where I get no satisfaction from accomplishing anything.
...Can't you just fix the issues Gunbreaker has with conflicting thigns by just MAKING COMBOS THAT GIVE CERTAIN THINGS FOR SUCCESSFULLY DOING THEM!? Just make a combo with additional weaves or follow-ups that have a short input time that grant mitigation or something else! that's how you fix it without killing the ID of the job!!
We keep streamlining all the classes and turning them into a faceroll I wonder what older summoners, monks or BLMs, who have long left the game, would say if they could see the classes now 😂
I'm not a machinist main hut I heard with the changes to machinist you wouldn't have to worry about hyper charge during wildfire but there still might be room for it i there.
Btw for RDM grand impact you can make it only replace impact while still can cast and use jolt 3 .. that from new setting they did add so i guess RDM still fine if not better.
22:28 Whenever I play black mage, I only do the standard rotation. But these changes make the job feel more rigid and makes it feel like I'll be punished harder for making a mistake. So I disagree they're "pretty nice".
These are the skill that will be deleted or change in Dawntail 7.0 Dark Knight [Blood Weapon(delete), Delirium(delete), Plunge(delete)] Gunbreaker [Rough Divide(delete)] Dragoon [Dragon Sight(delete), Spineshatter Dive(delete)] Ninja [Huton(effects will change), Huraijin(delete)] Samurai [Kaeshi: Higanbana(delete), Shoha(effects will change), Shoha 2(delete)] Bard [Wanderer's Minuet(effects will change), Mage's Ballad(delete), Army's Paeon(effects will change) Black Mage [Sharpcast(delete)] Astrologian [Minor Arcana and Draw(effects will change), Redraw(delete), Astrodyne(delete)]
Yeah, I'm one of those who disagree with your opinion about AST. My reasoning ist removing the randomness out of a system that represents cards, means removing the core idea of cards in general. Cards are on of the earliest means to humans to generate random outcomes, some to "predict" fate, some to gamble etc. The AST is meant to deal with the concept of fate and that you can't have it all. So breaking the basic concept of "fate" by giving smth absolutly optimizable is what makes the AST currently a broken class. I'm only talking about the concept of its aesthetics and lore here. AST was already one of the weakest classes in EW, when it comes to its design. And now it just is no longer an AST but in name. Maybe they should rename it to smth else, like illusionist.
I didn't dislike Summoner in Endwalker, but the job didn't get much in Dawntrail from what was shown. Even if it was just one summon that was to be given, a new Bahamut was a bad choice with how the job currently plays. Aside from that, I am pretty much okay with everything they did for the jobs in the game. Although I would have liked Monk to not lose the damage over time since it was fun to me.
Its not exactly that I want SMN to be complax, but at least give some wow factor when doing an update, honestly just give 3 new regular summons that just change in looks after doing phoenix would've been hell of a lot better than just robot bahamut
So I'm curious about the black mage changes. No free regen in frost is really going to hamper solo and non party content in my opinion as you can't reliably start fights with full mp if your target dies on fire phase. But on the other hand, it could mean more interesting choices outside of combat. I'm curious what it means for lower level play as well, nothing like getting a lvl 36 dungeon and having to use 4 alternate slots because your stuff is locked
I was hoping for SMN to at least get some salt and pepper so that I could pick it back up. But it's still baked unseasoned chicken breast. I was a SMN main since ARR 2.0 early access. You could say I was really tied to the job and dealt with many of the problems throughout the years. Always loved it, regardless of the issues, and I basically had to quit it in 6.0. The only time I stopped playing SMN was during 4.0 when all Ruins behaved like Fester at the time and once that got fixed, I returned immediately. To this day I'm still bummed about EW SMN, the job I used throughout MSQ, raids, did relics on suddenly became a job that I'll never look at again. All the glamour gear I had became worthless too given that I never liked BLM or RDM.
Pre-endwalker smn was just bad in my opinion. As a final fantasy enthusiast I've always enjoyed the fantasy of being able to summon large aeons to my side to fight for me in some capacity; it was shocking to just be able to summon a tiny little egi- instead. The EW changes were a welcome addition to being able to summon the big boys. I just wished that this update (expac) allowed for the introduction of more of the traditional summons instead of a template swap of a current summon but beggars can't be choosers. I look forward the DT update and continuing to play as a summoner.
@@xiozenold summoner mains didnt care about that. We’re not opposed to awesome summons, we just hate that the devs decided to take something we loved and erased it with nothing of worth to replace it with. Why did one of the most complex jobs have to be the easiest in a single patch? I would have had no problems with picto being easy as it would have been completely new with noone being attached to it.
12:09 As a Monk main I love the changes. While I would've been fine if they increased the buff timers in order to weave in the beast chakra system within the rotation, i'm fine with them getting rid of it entirely. I just wanna punch stuff
Blackmage is another Top DPS it isn’t weak the problem with this game is the developers are jerks for wanting you to dodge so many AOE when this game is slow AF and the ran action doesn’t last long enough this game seem to favor melee over range each expansion the AOE just keep getting crazy just belonging the fight i am starting to pick up on thier “Game design” since playing from 2013
My biggest problem is SMN. I used to main SMN in HW. Kinda got turned off from it in SB. Was quite excited for the changes in EW but it ended up being very flat. It's just flashy, nothing else. I was hoping for a bit of complexity being brought back into the job in DT. Just a little so it's still one of the easiest jobs but still gives you something to think about. I probably also wouldn't mind if not every single other job got made easier too to some extent? At least as far as i've seen. I get that they want an easy job that anyone can play but it's a bit TOO simple. RDM already kinda filled that role for me at least. The only reason i occasionally play SMN nowadays is because their animations look flashy and cool af.
I know Yoshi admitted this is the case also with Raid fights, but them making any changes to deal with that they said wont happen for a while....THey plan on changing or rethinking Raid fights first and then look at jobs again. So its nice to know he does understand they went way to far in one direction.
monk used to be so confusing like ... i only do casual monk play and i had no idea that the rythm was as it was now with the pips it all made sense xD and yeah i don't see the difference in practice, its only better at telling you whats happening and what you are supposed to do (without reading a guide) if any decision making is changed, i am sorry for that but from what i have been gathering its just how info is presented
They removed skill from blm. Like using sharpcast to get a firestarter for future mobility. Its also not fun to just be in fire phase all the time. Whats fun is EARNING fire phase. Also still having to spam umbral soul out of combat is painful when waiting 3 whole minutes for cutscenes.
Gunbreaker still plays the same. It's still the same busy tank even though it got rid of rough divide. And we all know double down and lion heart combo is gonna get a continuation combo come 8.0 or 9.0.
i gotta disagree with your points about summoner. First off its not fair for summoners to have their job gutted because the devs wanted a easy casual job. If the devs wanted one they should have made a new job thats easier and more casual instead of redoing an older one. Secondly people are pissed about the fact that we have not gotten a new summon but instead a reskinned bahumat. We've been begging SE for new summons like odin alexander shiva or leviathan but nope enjoy bahumat but shinier.
I used to be a monk main for my DPS, now I'm a Dragoon because there's no randomness to its combos making me have to look at my hotbars constantly to see what procked next. I used to hate Dragoon because it was slow getting the AOE abilities, I'll take slow ability gain over randomness of what my next hit is any day of the week. True Strike used to be useless, now its a necessity, they should have just removed it or have it be a base for Twin Snakes.
The BLM changes are terrible, gut the skill celling while making the job more rigid and less expressive with sharpcast and thundercloud dead, more punishing, harder to play, genuinely terrible to level with some serious oversights like AF paradox refreshing to early and umbral soul. Even for BLMs that only played standard this is a terrible set of changes. The job gets harder to play for beginners, more boring for people who already played it, and no reward for mastery.
tbh the black mage changes are way better than what most other classes got so idk what people are complaining besides having to have to many buttons while picto gets their buttons condensed into 1
The issue with Black Mage imo is the fact that SE says “No, you WILL spam Fire IV.” Compare the Level 100 Rotation to the Level 60 rotation and tell me if there’s really any difference.
Listening to the summoner section hurt my soul. The job isn't even recognizable from what it used to be. The people that "just want a simple job to push buttons" can fuck off and go play red mage lmfao
You're wrong about BLM. The umbral soul ability gives mana with each use. Say you are killing a boss in fire phase and it dies, you transpose to ice and if you use umbral soul 3 times you get full MP. It even says it on the skill for umbral soul. You also still have triplecast so you're able to stack 4 fire 4s on the first 1/2 or back 1/2 of fire phase easily. Especially with leylines I can get in 5 fire 4s in the first 1/2 of fire phase. I don't but you can but I do hit 4 fire 4s in the first 1/2 easily with and without leylines and or triplecast. I will miss ice paradox because it gave me utility options in ice phase, like if I stacked up some paradox charges. I agree with Sharpcast, it was a clunky spell.
Fair warning, this got long. It's not meant as a rant, or a vent, but more like my own thoughts on smn and how it could have been handled better. It's a rdm, but as a pet job and no sword. And it sucks that how it's just a pet job. I like smn anyway, but I know it has issues. Thank you so much for the video highlighting the changes. My thoughts on summoner. As someone who still plays summoner in ff11, I came in to ARR and felt a little disappointed, but accepted how summoner played. And then the years went by, and I just had to grit my teeth and remember if I missed anything in the ff14 summoner, I'd just go to ff11. I had a friend who played WoW, and loved the DoT mage that summoner was in the older expansions. And then when it went full pet job, they were very discouraged, which sucked. For them. I loved that we finally had full sized summons. In ff11 you get a key item, brave the dangerous route in the wild, to go out and fight the avatars of the summons, in order to gain a pact with them (or kill them for other drops/gil on the daily). It got you the full sized avatar of that summon. So I am still a bit bummed that we have such a short supply of summons. I know it has to do with lore, but like, Ramuh was chill with us! It makes sense that we'd get a trail fight with him, and then he joins us. And it would be awesome if the summons made sense again! Sure Garuda and Ifrit are dps summons, but make Titan more tanky! Ramuh could either focus on DoTs or crowd control. Shiva could be a buffer (adding en-blizzard dmg to players smg). But the devs did away with elemental dmg it seems, I mean they got rid of weapon type dmg. I once ran a temple of Qarn duty where the tank disconnected and never returned. And I changed to topaz carbuncle, and it tanked the bees and that minotaur boss easily! I just had to remind the healer to pay attention to Carby's hp, not mine. XD We got a new tank right after, so I didn't get to test topaz against the final boss. But it was fun! It felt like a really versatile job! Like when as a blm, I miraculously saved the party by spamming heals when the healer accidentally died towards the end of the Dzmael Darkhold final boss. Because I had that arcanist heal spell that I can't remember the name of right now. Okay, so. In ff11, the base carbuncle has dots, heals, a shield, and can cast meteorite. I get that ff14 jobs has to be "you do this role, you never step outside this box!" mentality, but I miss the older version of ff14 where the jobs felt more different. And I miss cleric stance tho just basing healer dmg on mnd makes more sense. XD I still have that item that would let me rearrange my stats when I changed between sch and smn. ^^
If you think that the new AST cards have variety you just frankly are fooling yourself. We have these cards in the game right now. They're called Celestial Intersection, Exaltation, and Essential Dignity. Do using those ogcds tingle your brain right now? Losing rapid reaction optimization for 'card variety' is okay for you? I doubt you had much stock in AST to begin with to make a statement like that
I don't understand the upset over Bard songs requiring a target. One was originally doing DoT to the target and the others were applying (admittedly small) non-aspected damage to a target in addition to their party buff abilities. Personally I'd love to see Bard's buff abilities expanded upon and a return of real, actual *support* jobs. Which I know will never happen...
After what happened to Summoner from Shadowbringers to Endwalker, the simplification of other jobs is just a matter of when. They killed Summoner for me, as I loved the management of the summons and maintaining your dots and spreads depending on the fight. They seem to want to apply the same flattening of the ceiling to all classes and it's definitely going to make me think twice about subbing for too long to even want to raid.
I love that summoner is an easy for players that need it but a job can be easy but also be fun which new summoner doesnt really succeed at imo it gets stale way to fast .We now have 3 identical demi sumon phases which is a huge waste. Were not asking for a bunch of bullshit to Manage and keep track of we just dont wanna spam astral flare and its equivalents for 15 seconds, phoinex in shadowbringer had a 2 action combo but it got removed for some reason in favor of 1 button spam. Square couldve done literally anything else to make basically the only new dawntrail addition unique but they just...didnt 😅 new aoe heal ig so now healers can heal even less now lol
Summoner was always a complicated caster, almost like BLM. Contrast with Red Mage, who was baby's first caster dps. With EW, you couldn't tell that SMN was ever difficult with how braindead it is to play now. Ast, my God what did they do to my boy? The card mechanic is so far away from what it used to be, it might as well be called WHM lite again. Scholar continues to be beaten into the ground, to make way for WHM dps and 3 other healers having shields. If they nerf Sage's damage gains, then I think people will just quit healing in general. WHM is Square's favorite green dps. Why would they ever nerf them?
I'm not upset about SMN having almost no changes, I'm upset that the new thing is JUST Robothamut. Everyone wanted Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva, but all we got was another Bahamut. Literally 0 flavor to their only new toy for the next 3 years. We could've had Alexander or Odin, or maybe Hydaelyn. Aesthetic matters, and Solar Bahamut has none of that. Dawntrail Summoner feels like an afterthought, like the devs genuinely forgot it existed and had to scramble to give them something no matter how mediocre it was. I'm glad Pictomancer is gonna be a thing, 'cuz I'm completely dropping Summoner.
I'm glad someone else understands that SMN is simple on purpose and doesn't need to completely evolve with every expansion anymore. That's my comfort job, now. Maybe they'll add some complexity when they start to address "job identity" in the future, but for now? I'm chillin.
As a casual player imma excited for BLM changes; it’s probably gonna change up how to do big explosions! Optimization and skill expression can come later.
The paradox thing do i not understand. In EW was whe able to cast 3-4x fire4, until whe had to cast paradox, before the timer is out. But, because it had cast time, did whe needed to have the needed time in mind. Why would we be now have the problems, that whe can only use fire 4 3 times, when paradox is instant cast? It should be now much saver to cast 4 times F4, because whe can use paradox at practicly the last second.
It has nothing to do with standart line. It's all about reaching 3% more dps through obscure setups with transpose and ice paradox. BLM mains are compalining that now their job will be boring since they will get to only do one thing and not be able to do what they use to. For casual BLM players this update will change nothing. For hadcore players deep into 40 pages long spreadsheet of theorycrafting there's... well there's no more theorycrafting : you will do your 6 fire IV into despair flarestar. Also many minutes details such as not being able to cast 2 instant thunder for some specific add phase with 2 ennemies. Nothing done for low level BLM gameplay too. they absolutely did not think, as usual, about low level gameplay. They always focus on the current max level experience and are gutting anything below max level and this time it's really aggravating.
@@liquidefreet And yet, do i failing to see a problem, why instant paradox would be worse, as to have to cast paradox. I see only improvement by instant Version. Similary to the 70er spell. Who is with 70 - around 80 a casting spell. And become only near 80 instant. It improve the skill and flow much more, to have it instant.
This is definitely the most fun SAM has ever been and I can honestly just laugh at these people who complain about every little thing. Only children expect everything in life to be perfect so I find it very hard to understand how grown-ups are this ungrateful when life is actually pretty damn good with all these new exciting changes. Where did this idiotic mentality come from that If one person says something everyone has to agree? Jesus people start using your brains. If you don't like something move on and stop making everything about you! Thank goodness the dev team ignores these people, if they hadn't we would be sitting where World of Warcraft is today. A mess of a game that caters to the loud narcissistic minority.
Completely disagree with you on Summoner. Reason is because there is such things as keeping things too simple, aka: boring and repetitive. Summoner had 0 decision making process in Endwalker and was prime for improvement and depth to be added in Dawntrail. It didn't need an overhaul, just added depth. The lack of any real decision making process will see summoner as a class die in Dawntrail by 7.1. People will still play it, level it to 100, run it through a dungeon or two, and never touch it again. Worst of all, it does seem Square-enix is back to it's habit of not listening to its fanbase as several classes feel to homogenized, rather than having their own distinctive playstyle. While it can be better for balancing, from a development standpoint it can seem lazy if every class is designed to be the same. This is part of the reason why summoners are so upset, because the class we've been playing since Endwalker launched is 100% exactly the same with no real substance added; despite us going to level 100 and likely the end of the standard leveling system. (Aka: expect merit points/job/class points in 8.0). SE needs to rethink it's approach on summoner and many of the other classes that got short changed, and come back with something substantial for 7.1, or risk losing millions of subscribers till 8.0, which trust me, despite their relaxed view on gaming, they do NOT want to risk.
I mean, this might be true, to an extent in very very high level play, but that's a very small part of ffxivs community. Sucks, but its true. You claim they're not listening to their fan base, but its pretty evenly split on the topic you're talking about and Yoshi himself has addressed this. Nothings going to make everyone happy.
@@mayleelove4332 the "high end" you're talking about, is literally everyone who has a job capped at 90 now, and has MSQ completed. That's not a minority, that's the vast majority. It seems about 85% of the playerbase has at least 1 Manderville weapon finished. At least 1 job at 660 item level. This means that most people were clearing raid and dungeon content. And btw, the most popular class for endgame content by far in Endwalker, was summoner. You can look at most played from several sites and see for yourself. Sorry, but you're flat out wrong. I've played enough MMOs to see what happens when depth is sacrificed for homogenization. It results in subscriber losses. SE is hoping to have Dawntrail launch a new story arc, and at level 100, there's an expectation that classes would have some depth at this point before merit point/job point systems take over and its not there. You'll see what I mean when 7.1 rolls out in November/December. If nothing changes, the active player count will plummet.
@jayq1904 I mean, other than using fflogs, which only a very small part of the community uses, there's no way to get what job is the most popular. You can see how many people have it through census, but they don't really tell you how many people play it. Either way, youre only polling the savage community. And I mean, they said the same thing at swb and ew release. Yet nothings happened.
@@mayleelove4332 lol no, some naysayers said that about the summoner changes after Shadowbringers, no one was saying the games dying with Endwalker, not with how the story and gameplay were improved. What's happening in Dawntrail isn't improvement, its homogenization, and its a brand new story, so thats more or less unknown. The problem is, if SAM plays like RPR, who plays like DRG, who plays like VIP, people are gonna clear the story, run dungeons/raids for 2 weeks and bail, exactly like what happens in modern WoW.
@jayq1904 All your saying is anything you play is viable. And yes, people say the game is going to die every single patch since HW, lmao. This is nothing new. At least in HW, there were problems that desperately needed fixing.
Seeing player commentary about FF14 jobs has always been interesting to me, because it feels like almost all complexity (with the sole possible exception of black mage due to the heavy focus on cast time) is basically an illusion. There's this weird detachment between the button presses and the actions taking place that makes it just feel like you're just executing arbitrary actions to maintain damage levels (almost like if the game had a random "tap your foot every 5 seconds" requirement to increase your DPS by 5% or something). Having a button that you do or don't press every 30 seconds just doesn't really "feel" the same in FF14 as pressing a button in a game where there's a more "physical" affect than just "triggering a number and an animation with some particle effects." Rationally I realize that all game button pressing is basically an illusion where the button pressing is being translated to visuals and numbers in the game, but it just feels like that illusion is exceptionally weak with FF14. It's hard for me to be excited about new jobs or changes to existing jobs, since it just feels like "different arbitrary button algorithms." I think the main culprit of this is the way the GCD works in FF14. There isn't really the same feeling of "I'm directly doing things with my button presses*" - instead most of your button presses are just queuing up actions to happen sometime in the next second or so, and even the oGCDs have a feeling of detachment to them. And the effects themselves also have a less "tangible" feel to them since they're almost always just "animations + particle effects" (and even the skills that move you do so in very clearly defined ways). This isn't really a bad thing about FF14's design, though. I'd argue that this lack of "flexibility" is necessary to the way its encounters are designed - you can't allow the players to affect the boss (so any sort of physical interaction with the boss is a no-no, and same with being able to stun/etc the boss outside of the the fight mechanics), and player movement needs to be very predictable. But it does make it difficult for me to understand how people get so invested in the minutiae of the way the jobs work. All I personally care about is "do I like the aesthetic" and "is it easy enough for me to handle?" * Basically how much it feels like you're "directly controlling the character" with your button pressing, which is a function of various things (like "how responsive it is" and "how much fine control you have over the actions of the character"). In the best case, you can almost forget you're pressing buttons on a keyboard/control.
Honestly the fact that they made thunder no longer a dot on BLM is just one less thing that we have to worry about and fixate more on just maintaining our rotations and removes the randomness of trying to weave in those thunder procs. Hopefully this brings in more players playing a class that isn't really popular due to the difficulty level.
I dont like being manipulated with a thumbnail and watching a bunch of stuff i dont want to see just to get to that info, but thanks for the time stamps.. As for the black mage, why even give abilitys if you dont really have choice in when or how to use them, just give us one button that does the ability allowed at the time.
This game is not a choice game is a path that you follow, not one you make yourself. I hope the devs where thinking on getting rid of the non standard rotation to make it easy to balance the intended rotation.... but what do I know I'm just a casual.
personally I think black mages are made because pictomancer is so fun and colorful; it's reminding them of their youths.
I disagree with your statement.
Black mages were always able to paint. With the charcoal of their enemies.
Trust, Black Mage mains are not jealous, envious or any other “ous” of Pictomancer.
black mages summoned demons and sacrificed people for it in their youth. nothing colourful about that ^^
Black Mages are mad because it was one of the few jobs that has complexity to it and the developers seem intent on removing meaningful choices from rotations and just having it be "memorize this sequence and don't deviate."
I am a Monk main who is upset because it is tradition to be mad every expac
if not angy, how we monke?
We decided war is to strong so we deleted monk -ubi
Monk is the real baserker
Never forget
BLM changes - absolutely hate that the thunder proc. has gone.
Half the fun and skill with BLM is adapting to the procs and keeping bits on hand for when you need to move for mechanics.
Basically the changes just railroad you into doing a 100% repeatable rotation - not talking about the weird and wonderful alt rotations, just some adaptive variation to the intended one. I don’t see how removing all random procs has any benefit.
Also agree with the comments that harder jobs should do more damage - not silly amounts more, just enough to stroke your ego by being top after tanks on the aggro list
I wouldn't complain having one more body between me and death. XD
I 100% agree. Part of the reason why I loved Sharpcast and EW BLM so much. I had so many options at my fingertips and now it’s just Fire 4 spam with no room for improvising.
ShB ans End BLM was at its peak, now its gone and its just pure no fun and braindead rotation
I've been playing for over 10 years, things change, I just roll with it. I play what feels good and I never one-trick "main" anything. Sometimes I shelf a job I love for most of an expansion, sometimes a job that feels bad early in an expansion gets fixed midway through. Just relax and push the buttons, no need to have a dedicated monogamous relationship with jobs.
Alleluja
People enjoy things differently 🤓
You are the most based person in the world
SMN main here. I played back when "SMN is for casuals" was not true and still lament the days of complex dot weaving nad multi-target optimization, but I've resolved to let it go. The biggest complaint I have is that there are many, many janky elements of Summoner that are leftover from the job's inception back in 2.0 that still haven't been addressed, especially when playing SMN below level 60. It honestly feels like they couldn't find a good way to parcel out the abilities to make the job feel like it has a functional rotation before getting Dreadwyrm Trance. If the job really is meant for casuals and new players, I think it's *especially* important that the level-up process is clean and easy, and not just that it has a pretty butt-simple max level rotation. And to my knowledge, they still haven't fixed Physic.
I'm considering switching from black mage to pictomancer. Maybe it's just because picto is new that makes the rotation feels challenging, but new black mage feels so dumbed down. New manafont feels amazing, but losing ice paradox and the lucid dreaming + transpose shenanigas feels like it's lost so much of it's identity as a rule-breaker. Breaking rules is what separates normal magic from black magic, and following a strict rotation is... just antithetical
pretty much this. The new Blm rotation officialy got changed to Fire lll -> Despair -> Transponse -> pictomancer. I always loved the optimizing on blm, Breaking your rotation for the sake of that extra 3% dmg. After switching to Picto now, that one def scratches that itch for now atleast.
I find the new Black Mage to be so friggin boring man. I just got my hands on Transpose lines back in Endwalker, and contrary to popular opinion, I loved Sharpcast. It made the rotation feel so much more complex. Now our rotation at level 100 feels like a glorified version of the lvl 60 rotation. Unbelievable.
Unpopular opinions, high dps classes should be more challenging to play.
Thats the norm in ARR now its turned into fisher price style
What do you mean by "high dps" do you mean high personal DPS or rDPS? If you mean rDPS then you concede that some jobs should be significantly better than others. Making a job easier to play doesn't compensate for it being objectively worse than others if the difference is actually notable
It’s probably a good thing, raids are designed for every job to beat and black mage was probably holding raids back in terms of mechanics why 2 mins becomes the norm
no, I think easier jobs should do more damage than harder ones actually
ya ig this makes sense on why its unpopular. Most dont track ppls dps and most dont care about dps so why add complexity to any dps class in order to have it do more damage when dps meters are bannable lol Keeping all job dps balanced based on class utility makes more sense to me which is what they seem to be going for, except with ninja which
has good util and amazing dps
SMN being simple doesn't mean it has to be without flavor. It's atrociously bland compared to what it could have been. Three more summons to complete the set of primals and a new summon like Alexander or Odin.
Someone loses no matter what. If you liked old summoner complexity or just because you enjoy DoT management, you dont have anything for that gameplay style in 14 anymore. If they change summoner to be more complex, the people that like summoner for its simplicity get put on the path to losing that.
@@Enis1198 Again, doesn't have to be complex, make them three simple buttons. Viper seems to almost play itself, but they (apparently) made it fun regardless by making it flashy and flavorful.
Give SMN the same treatment.
@@SlyScytherI mean, all your asking for is 3 new skins.
The flavor is the summons. You know, because FF fans that werent even playing summoner said that spell effects ARE job identity. So they stripped the job identity away and gave them oversized summons and oversized spell effects like they were compensating for something theyre ashamed of. They even had to make a command for smaller versions of summons so you can see the floor aoes past bahamuts phat as.
@@mayleelove4332 It doesn't even need to be 3 skins to not ruin the simplicity of SMN. Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan all function identically, but feel different because they cast differently (e.g. Titan does a lot of weaves, Ifrit slow casts, Garuda goes fast). New summons could be as simple as Odin makes you a melee for a few seconds (a la RDM), Leviathan is a long channel-cast (like MCH flamethrower), and Ramuh casts stack up potency for a finisher. It could even have the same rotation by making it so *any* three summons procs the next Bahamut/Phoenix, that way casual players can stick to easy ones they like, and high-skill players can optimize fight planning around having more options.
I’m going to disagree with your points on summoner. I have been maining it since 2.0, and it wasn’t until 6.0 that it was the “easy caster”. It feels bad that a job that used to be considered one of the more technical was simplified to this level.
Red mage is also on the simple side and used to fit into the “easy job slot”.
Smn hurts me (shb smn main lol), but I would argue that is currently easiest dps or maybe even easiest job of the game, there is barely anything to manage in general, it lost all of it @-@.
SMN rotation wasn't complex or difficult to play before 6.0 it was just long, long in a bad way, where any interruption felt awful.
@@futurepastnow it was janky, but it was fun to optimize per fight and force you todo weird shit on ultimates for example, something the new SMN literally has nothing to offer (it had dot management, charges management and pet handling (pre-positioning so he could attack faster)). It was janky yes, it was clunky in some areas, but it had some nice depth compared to other jobs.
As a SMN main since 2.0 every single addition prior to the rework was a nonsensical mess of grab bag mechanics. If you ever died completely ruining your long meandering strange rotation of trance and summon bahamut was weird and dumb. Aetherflow stacks, fester, dots made no cohesive sense with their interactions with trances or fulfilled the class fantasy of a summoner. Egis were also just their own separate little thing that didn't interact with trances OR dots, with some abilities you also just kinda hit for no reason not unlike fester. No cohesive sense in anything it was doing.
Yes, it was the easy caster. BLM was far harder to optimize in fights and didn't do it in weird ways. It did in thoughtful ways that required mastery of the encounter despite its rotation being dead easy. SMN's optimizations didn't feel like optimizations. They felt like making the best of a bad situation because it wasn't bad enough having 3-4 minigames wholly unrelated to each other, they also didn't play nice with the encounter design. At least now the mechanics make sense in how they relate to each other in gameplay and aesthetically. We're actually evoking and invoking the power of primals. I also think having a very simple job without a rigid gcd rotation is valuable in the game and if any job had to be that, killing the old incomprehensible and janky smn was a worthy sacrifice.
@@williampounds5191 everything you wrote is all good and all, but "rigid gcd rotation" is the actual current definition of the current smn more than previous iterations... and the reason is there is nothing else you can move on the rotation to adapt (only maybe getting ifrit first and then the other primals once every last fight of each tier).
As someone who learned and loves Freestyle (non-standard) Monk, the issue isn't the guiders on the GCDs, those are actually really nice and make the job a lot less daunting, it's the loss of the double DoTs.
Monk has basicslly three (four, but one is very situational) rotations: Normal but you drift a ton, a looping rotation with some small forced losses to loop, and the freestyle rotation you have full control over. Playing freestyle means managing your DoT timers effectively to line them up with Riddle of Fire, and it leads to very interesting situations like how you actually WANT to double refresh Twin Snakes before the last Demolish going into RoF, so that you can do your full PB combo and resume from Oppo (highest damage) without dropping the damage buff. There's also situations where you actually want to Demolish instead of AoE and mix up both single-target and AoE rotarions.
The monk changes basically eliminate all of this. It'll play about the same as freestyle, but you no longer have to worry about any of those little complexities because they're just gone. There's one rotation, there's no more timers to take care of, no more interesting tech, no more insane skill expression and high skill ceiling.
Is the job dead? Absolutely not. Is it going to be less fun? Probably not that much, honestly. But it's a completely incomprehensible step backwards from a job that was imo already perfect, and it's definitely overcompensating for Monk's image as the hardest melee/job.
Honestly, I didn't really care much for the one dot MNK has. Like I felt like it didn't matter much compared to like BRD. But I'd rather wait and see how it plays before I make any solid judgments.
100% agreed
It was just a dot.
A job that punches and kicks having so much of its identity tied to a dot never sat well with me anyway. Good riddance tbh.
Honestly as a black mage main that loved nonstandard, I would have understood more if they killed nonstandard but made the leveling/low level experience on the job a lot better and did a better job teaching the flow of it to new players. But... they didn't, really at all, they just killed a fun playstyle that was totally optional, didn't break the game since the DPS gains were pretty small. Instead of a fairly strict job that could become very flexible if you cared to put in a lot of practice, now it's just strict for everyone. In terms of theory crafters finding cool new opti, don't hold your breath. After probably 2000 hours on blm, I'm switching jobs in DT
RE Summoner, I think the real issue with me is that the new summon just doesn't really fit. Instead of replacing normal Bahamut, it instead crams normal Bahamut and Phoenix into the one-minute windows, and takes over the opener and 2-minute entirely. It also looks, imo, quite goofy, and at least thus far, as functionally zilch for lore basis.
It would have been _so easy_ for them to make the gems that you get after Phoenix swap into Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva. They could even make them essentially mechanical clones of the existing Titan, Ifrit, and Garuda, with one having a pair of long casts with a two-GCD combo Favor, one having for short-GCD instants with a long-cast Favor, and one having four normal instant GCDs with weaved Favors. They could give those subtle flavor differences, or they could literally just be SFX reskins with the same mechanical effect, and honestly _it would have felt better_ to me. That would at least lean into the "Summoner" archetype, and the existing gameplay build-up over the levels. This weird sword-winged second Bahamut that they just sorta sledge-hammered into the job feels not even half-assed, but something some intern cooked up on a lunch break when they realized they'd forgotten to write down anything for Summoner at all.
Ifrit pared with Shiva lock them in ice as you dash in maby a flavor deep freeze for a sec or so then stomp
titan with Ramuh judgement bolt in to shock strike shock strike shock strike shock strike shock strike if you have played the ex you know this is fitting
and Garuda with Leviathan with the dread wave that some of the sahagin cast in his fight being the dot zone or aoe buff that dose counter damage for flavor
while i do agree that there should be a casual friendly job, lets not glaze the company and say its a great idea to turn SMN into that job. it was a terrible decision. people who mained smn years before they neutered it have every single right to be pissed off for the rest of their time playing this game, when square could have EASILY turned any NEW job into what your posturing for.
its not like the other jobs are genuinely that difficult anyways, it did not take the brain power to play smn before neutering to play drg or whm or half the tanks. none of these are really THAT difficult in comparison to so many other games where they just HAVE to gut anything interesting in FFXIV to get people to play anything.
another huge note is the casuals will play literally any job it doesn't matter about usage rates. theyre still likely playing the game sub optimally regardless of whether or not the job is brain dead or astrophysics level, i mean so many casuals fuck up blm rotation on a daily basis but still play the job because they find it fun LOL. it was still a shit decision to turn a more complex job into a simple job instead of just making a new simple job, i dont understand why thats so difficult to grasp. if a job is too difficult for you, go play a different one. dont take years of someone else's dedication to learning it and shove it down the drain because its about what you want.
also ast having varying levels of more healing in the cards isn't really a "strong identity", the cards just heal now yippie. on top of the already strong heals it has, that just makes it redundant.
11:58 YES. I COMPLETELY AGREE.
Thanks for this video, have been so tunnel visioned forgot to look at everything else coming for DT. One thing I was thinking about looking at all the new toys Healers and Tanks got was that I think Yoshi-P has had enough of us and is going to kill us. I hope the new fights make good use of all the new mit/healing abilities.
Yoshi got sick of everyone calling the game easy so now he's gonna make us pay lmao
@@TheUndyingCrystal lol as if
I confess I have a bias due to having enjoyed summoner pre rework for several expansions and being a fan of the job in older FF titles. But what was a complex job prior to EW has been reduced to babies first spell caster. What should be represented as technically difficult (rotating through numerous summons and using their abilities) is now mundane and unexciting. And I do kinda agree with the 'it's another bahamut and should've another demi or more summons' argument. The EW rework ideally was the blueprint but I guess it didn't pan out. There are other simple starter jobs, why'd they murder my boi :(
The rework killed my desire to play the game. I keep coming back for a look in the hope that there will be something to bring me back but nothing yet.
@@GerardSharkeyI honestly had a job identity crisis for the whole ew expansion, they definitely destroyed the job in a way that there is nothing close to what it was. I am glad for casuals that they got the easiest job of the game out of it though, praying that picto is as fun as it looks because that’s were I am aiming.
@@Siul_987 I fear that the picto will lack will lack in any complexity. I want to break my fingers. I want to take more than 2 minutes to learn a rotation.
@@GerardSharkey I agree, I just hope I find something that stays between fun and hard to master, there was something on that old janky smn that I enjoyed a lot (pet management was kind of fun, dots, ruins charges and some other stuff), I have not found that again on the game, I tried to raid with BLM but it never really stuck with me either lol, I have done raids with many mores dancer, bard, sage, ninja, monk and many others :’) .
I still miss smn xD
Astro getting some of the original card functions back was nice, I still would like the 3.0 system back, the random nature of the draws and the royal road skills were awesome.
I understand the business case for standardising jobs and their rotations - to make the game as accessible as possible to the largest number of players (particularly new and returning players) and to reduce potential toxicity as a result of either (a) not including a class in your party because it doesn't have a particular ability or (b) shaming players for not min-maxing their rotations or discovering those hidden synergies.
The above said, I don't agree with the approach. It essentially turns us into a bunch of interchangeable robots who push buttons in a specific order. We are differentiated in our ability to deal with complex mechanics in Savage fights and such, but for me multitasking is not a function of intelligence.
I enjoy when a game allows questions like "how should I adapt my rotation for this particular fight?" rather than accepting that a rotation is just something to distract you in the background while all the real mechanics are happening in the fight and it will always be exactly the same.
You know, back in my day (1.0), I had to actually think about how to use a job (like Summoner). *cough* cough
On the topic of dancer, Standard Finish does combo into Last Dance, making doing Standard Step on cooldown still a dps gain over doing filler gcds. But, of course, potencies subject to change for launch.
As someone who played and enjoyed SMN until Endwalker I will say this:
S-E took away the identity of the summoner job, which was to apply and spread DoTs and to synergize with various pets. That identity is completely dead.
They replaced that very unique identity with a job that's VERY simple, kind of "baby's first DPS job," and now the appeal of the job is that you get bigger, flashier summons that look like mini primals instead of floating lumps.
So now it's a flashy, dumb job, and they had an opportunity to make it more interesting, or more flashy, and they did neither one.
In reality, they *could* have kept the job identity in EW AND made it flashy, and most summoners would have *loved* that. They didn't do that, okay, much sad, but people who want that already stopped playing it so no big deal. They should have made it sexier though!
Now, it's still the most-played job and will probably remain the most-played, because *easy* is *good* when you're trying to learn hard / new content, but that doesn't mean it's a well-designed job. It just means that the job is a good crutch.
I'm honestly fine with summoner's simplicity, but still, no new summons minus Blue Eyes White Bahamut, is very disappointing. We wanted more gem phases, not another Demi-phase.
I kinda wish something more, like being able to cast barrier without the stupid carbuncle (honestly, at this point, I don't mind see the cute little thing get nuked cuz it literally do nothing but cast barrier now. I believe it won't harm summoner's identity because summon in FF series doesn't appear permanently in combat: either in-and-out or only last for some time. But I guess people would miss the blue little thing so it won't happen.
I also feel like aside of the new Bahamut, there should be some sort of QoL changes. Like Summoner can choose their Ifrit-phase gap-closer being a gap-closer (animation-lock) or just a normal book-slam (no-animation lock). A finisher that requires you to summon all there of Titan/Ifrit/Garuda to proc, which can be avoid drifting during non-targetable phase by making these summons deal damage around the caster so that summoner can spend summon gems to prep the finisher in down time.
I'm not fine. The only job I really loved was deleted with the rework. If they wanted a simple job they should have made a new one.
Or maybe even something new to do during the gem phases, literally any change up to all the filler in the middle :(, and the fact solar is the starting and in between each phase we are all gonna get so tired of it
The laziness of solar Bahamut is just astounding....he has no new animations or doesnt do anything, its a literal reskin of bahamut with out putting any actual work. Flaps wings like Pheonix and Bahamut and then little attack big attack of which they all look the same...minus the colors of the attack are different oooooh so unique... Making Summoner so a child can play is a preference some might like....but there is no excusing the lack of effort in just adding bahamut twice with literally doing nothing new....
As someone who only dips their toes into black mage when I'm grinding levels on it or grinding lower level drops, I enjoy the changes to it. The change to ice phase means that you can always get the burst of mana without needing to either wait a step to ensure you get it before swapping to fire phase or risking missing it if you go straight into fire 3. It does technically remove options like gambling on the fire 3 or using thunder to stall for recharge while keeping that uptime but it makes the main route feel better. I also like the changes to thunder, I think leaving the original cast as an option when you don't have thundercloud would have been fine but I didn't like the randomness to Thundercload sometimes popping like 17 times during your fire rotation or popping once in a 2 minute span, and making it consistent is great. It could maybe use a few more ways to proc it or changed ways to alter it than just swapping phases but it's a nice consistency buff and makes it better scathe whenever you have it.
SCH's level capstone ability means it can basically solo heal and that is a massive gain imo
It's not just about standard vs. nonstandard rotation. It's about FREEDOM. Black mage had the freedom to mold their rotation around the fight, or around a death, etc. That freedom, like every other player optimization since Shadowbringers, is deemed unworthy to exist. They've lost their way with job design; let's hope they can turn it around with the 7.2/8.0 job update
I have been a black mage main since I started the game (thaumaturge from character creation). the paradox rotation was the best mage rotation I have experienced in any MMO. It just felt good to perform. that being said, it was not paradox that made me love this job. I trust SE and will keep being BLM all the way to lvl 100 :)
I'm sad that devs seem to want to stamp out non standard rotations. That will go a long way to stagnate the game making every job a cookie cutter.
I played SMN at launch, and while I was gone for 7 years and it's nice that my main is "simple".... I miss them big dps numbers xD
You definitely missed the history of SMN. Interesting take but the class in FFXIV was known as an easy to learn hard to master pet & dot mage class before the Endwalker change.
Endwalker made it easy for entry and many Summoner mains who have been with the class back in the beginning was hoping to have some development or at the very least something that takes what we've been doing with the rework further. For new players (not new summoners) they will never know the stress and trains of thought us older SMNs went through on materia/stat management as some slight changes can mess with our damage and buff windows.
The 'easy' mage class before Endwalker was RDM. Please consult with people who main a job before making these takes dude
No one is talking about this yet, but I have a feeling we're going down to just one endgame set of gear too, no more crit build, just spell speed. I feel...
I started playing 14 in ShB because of SAM, loved it then but was put off by it in EW (before Kaiten was removed) and never really had a reason to play it.
But these DT changes have me scratching my head? They get rid of unique gauge spenders going into EW with only 10/20/25spenders (later reduced to 10/25), just for them to REINTRODUCE a 50 kenki spender but make the original 50 kenki spenders (that were made 25 kenki in EW) 60 seconds? It just feels super redundant to me, like where is the job actually going?
As a fan of new SMN, I disagree with the SMN portion of this video. I think new SMN fans just wanted to see *a* gameplay change this expansion instead of just visual changes to existing moves.
We're summoners, we wanted new skins on the *summons* (complete with new quirks for Astral Flow and Gemshine), not a new skin on Dreadwyrm Trance.
A new Bahamut is the least interesting change they could have made and, personally, I don't like the Allagan design so an Allagan Bahamut is 🤷🏽♂
The thing about summoners new abilties for me that was underwhelming was with getting another Bahamut to summon in. Would have rather had something else as a larger summon, or having a new set of lesser primals to summon in aside for the base three.
I love the game, but it seems to me that FFXIV players somehow have managed to blind themselves to the fact that there is no customization and no variation in ANY ASPECT of FFXIV gameplay. There's no variation in gear, in materia, in the buttons you hit and the order you hit them in, and there's no variation in where you can stand or when and where you need to move. "Getting good" at FFXIV entails figuring the EXACT details that your Job must follow, every time.
the excuse that players use is that "you're just going to learn the optimal build and rotation anyway"
I agree with you tho
RE: Red Mage, the reduction in cooldown on Swiftcast, afaik, essentially completely negates the issue with GCD shifting. RDMs need one GCD shift per melee combo, since the melee combo itself causes a GCD shift by being ~5 GCDs long. RDMs do a melee combo roughly every 35-40s, since we generate an average of 5.25 mana per GCD during dual-cast, and a melee combo costs a net of 73 mana (the spells in the combo regenerate 27 of the 100 mana it consumed). However, every 2 minutes, we get a bonus free melee combo that provides a free GCD shift on its own, so realistically we only really need 2 GCDs shifts per two minutes. Since we have ~30-40s flexibility on when to actually use the melee combo, due to pooling, Swiftcast at 40s is _more than_ sufficient to provide the odd instacast we need to fix GCD alignment between combos.
That said, I do kinda wish they'd just give Fleche and Contra charges already. While managing GCD alignment to maximum CD uptime on them is certainly a form of skill expression, it feels more to me like playing around jank in the system, rather than actual proper job complexity. That's especially the case if they're going to have us depending on a role action for that alignment, a role action that is also often burned on things like rezes.
genuinely a huge wave of relief every time media tour comes around and I hear "warrior is still basically the same". don't ever touch my baby, se
Dude my Rough Divide, wtf look what they did to my boy. They made it uncool.
RIP Squall
tldr, you're in favor of ease of use > skill expression. You want to know the best way to learn monk? Actually playing the job. Monk is (was?) the best example of job progression as each thing you learned felt like an addition to your previously obtained knowledge rather than a thing that requires you to change your playstyle (looking at you, Samurai every capstone).
Now my time is not rewarded, nor respected. It is now no different than any other melee dps except Ninja.
Black Mage has me concerned but makes me wonder if triple or quad flares will be optimal again.
the class doesn't play any differently then it does in EW. They just lowered the skill floor and kept the skill ceiling, you just don't have to juggle buffs anymore, the horror. There's nothing wrong with make a job easier to get into, you still have to do the same thing you were doing since shb, there's nothing different or new about the rotation it's just more clear on how you're suppose to do your rotation
@@lifeiaskedfor That's bs. If they lowered the skill floor than the class plays differently. I don't want to play a simple class in a lake of simple classes in an ocean of simple gameplay. I liked monk because I felt like getting into the job was easy and mastering it took effort because that's how it is. Maybe it'll still be a class worth playing as the skill expression may still be there at high level.
Face value, the class doesn't reward effort anymore, so at least it's on the same level as the rest of this game.
@amfrog8277 Lowering the skill floor only affects you if you're at the skill floor. If the job feels the same at the upper end, then making the low end easier is irrelevant except for players picking up the job.
Ease of entry is always a good thing; it doesn't mean that it has to be any less complex/ rewarding to master.
You sound like someone who is to good for the game. Sounds like it's time for you to find another game. @amfrog8277
@@sharp5hooter499 Too good for the game? It's not a bad thing to want things to be better. Regardless, I already dropped the game. It took a few hours of playing Endwalker that I knew I was done. I came back every now and then and the game still did nothing for me.
It's not a "too good for the game" scenario. It's that the game progressed in a direction that I feel is too simplified and unrewarding to the point where I get no satisfaction from accomplishing anything.
...Can't you just fix the issues Gunbreaker has with conflicting thigns by just MAKING COMBOS THAT GIVE CERTAIN THINGS FOR SUCCESSFULLY DOING THEM!?
Just make a combo with additional weaves or follow-ups that have a short input time that grant mitigation or something else! that's how you fix it without killing the ID of the job!!
I loved the gambling system of the cards, i miss it, i miss it so much.
We keep streamlining all the classes and turning them into a faceroll
I wonder what older summoners, monks or BLMs, who have long left the game, would say if they could see the classes now 😂
Doesn't removing the randomness from AST kinda defeat the entire purpose of the job?
I'm not a machinist main hut I heard with the changes to machinist you wouldn't have to worry about hyper charge during wildfire but there still might be room for it i there.
So sage still has that aoe dot but we haven't gotten to savage yet so we will see
Btw for RDM grand impact you can make it only replace impact while still can cast and use jolt 3 .. that from new setting they did add so i guess RDM still fine if not better.
Huge if true. The tooltip says it automatically replaces both, which I do not like
@@TheOptimistDelusion we will see but i am sure its true 90%
22:28 Whenever I play black mage, I only do the standard rotation. But these changes make the job feel more rigid and makes it feel like I'll be punished harder for making a mistake. So I disagree they're "pretty nice".
These are the skill that will be deleted or change in Dawntail 7.0
Dark Knight [Blood Weapon(delete), Delirium(delete), Plunge(delete)]
Gunbreaker [Rough Divide(delete)]
Dragoon [Dragon Sight(delete), Spineshatter Dive(delete)]
Ninja [Huton(effects will change), Huraijin(delete)]
Samurai [Kaeshi: Higanbana(delete), Shoha(effects will change), Shoha 2(delete)]
Bard [Wanderer's Minuet(effects will change), Mage's Ballad(delete), Army's Paeon(effects will change)
Black Mage [Sharpcast(delete)]
Astrologian [Minor Arcana and Draw(effects will change), Redraw(delete), Astrodyne(delete)]
They ruined the Gunbreaker. Wow thank you Yoshi-p
Yeah, I'm one of those who disagree with your opinion about AST. My reasoning ist removing the randomness out of a system that represents cards, means removing the core idea of cards in general. Cards are on of the earliest means to humans to generate random outcomes, some to "predict" fate, some to gamble etc. The AST is meant to deal with the concept of fate and that you can't have it all. So breaking the basic concept of "fate" by giving smth absolutly optimizable is what makes the AST currently a broken class. I'm only talking about the concept of its aesthetics and lore here. AST was already one of the weakest classes in EW, when it comes to its design. And now it just is no longer an AST but in name. Maybe they should rename it to smth else, like illusionist.
Long time monk main. Monk is the best it's ever been.
I didn't dislike Summoner in Endwalker, but the job didn't get much in Dawntrail from what was shown. Even if it was just one summon that was to be given, a new Bahamut was a bad choice with how the job currently plays.
Aside from that, I am pretty much okay with everything they did for the jobs in the game. Although I would have liked Monk to not lose the damage over time since it was fun to me.
I'm mad that Zesho Meppo on NIN is a ogcd cause I wanna see that whole animation
Its not exactly that I want SMN to be complax, but at least give some wow factor when doing an update, honestly just give 3 new regular summons that just change in looks after doing phoenix would've been hell of a lot better than just robot bahamut
So I'm curious about the black mage changes. No free regen in frost is really going to hamper solo and non party content in my opinion as you can't reliably start fights with full mp if your target dies on fire phase. But on the other hand, it could mean more interesting choices outside of combat. I'm curious what it means for lower level play as well, nothing like getting a lvl 36 dungeon and having to use 4 alternate slots because your stuff is locked
I was hoping for SMN to at least get some salt and pepper so that I could pick it back up. But it's still baked unseasoned chicken breast.
I was a SMN main since ARR 2.0 early access. You could say I was really tied to the job and dealt with many of the problems throughout the years. Always loved it, regardless of the issues, and I basically had to quit it in 6.0. The only time I stopped playing SMN was during 4.0 when all Ruins behaved like Fester at the time and once that got fixed, I returned immediately.
To this day I'm still bummed about EW SMN, the job I used throughout MSQ, raids, did relics on suddenly became a job that I'll never look at again. All the glamour gear I had became worthless too given that I never liked BLM or RDM.
Pre-endwalker smn was just bad in my opinion. As a final fantasy enthusiast I've always enjoyed the fantasy of being able to summon large aeons to my side to fight for me in some capacity; it was shocking to just be able to summon a tiny little egi- instead. The EW changes were a welcome addition to being able to summon the big boys. I just wished that this update (expac) allowed for the introduction of more of the traditional summons instead of a template swap of a current summon but beggars can't be choosers. I look forward the DT update and continuing to play as a summoner.
@@xiozenold summoner mains didnt care about that. We’re not opposed to awesome summons, we just hate that the devs decided to take something we loved and erased it with nothing of worth to replace it with. Why did one of the most complex jobs have to be the easiest in a single patch? I would have had no problems with picto being easy as it would have been completely new with noone being attached to it.
12:09 As a Monk main I love the changes. While I would've been fine if they increased the buff timers in order to weave in the beast chakra system within the rotation, i'm fine with them getting rid of it entirely. I just wanna punch stuff
Blackmage is another Top DPS it isn’t weak the problem with this game is the developers are jerks for wanting you to dodge so many AOE when this game is slow AF and the ran action doesn’t last long enough this game seem to favor melee over range each expansion the AOE just keep getting crazy just belonging the fight i am starting to pick up on thier “Game design” since playing from 2013
My biggest problem is SMN. I used to main SMN in HW. Kinda got turned off from it in SB. Was quite excited for the changes in EW but it ended up being very flat. It's just flashy, nothing else. I was hoping for a bit of complexity being brought back into the job in DT. Just a little so it's still one of the easiest jobs but still gives you something to think about.
I probably also wouldn't mind if not every single other job got made easier too to some extent? At least as far as i've seen.
I get that they want an easy job that anyone can play but it's a bit TOO simple. RDM already kinda filled that role for me at least. The only reason i occasionally play SMN nowadays is because their animations look flashy and cool af.
I know Yoshi admitted this is the case also with Raid fights, but them making any changes to deal with that they said wont happen for a while....THey plan on changing or rethinking Raid fights first and then look at jobs again. So its nice to know he does understand they went way to far in one direction.
monk used to be so confusing
like ... i only do casual monk play and i had no idea that the rythm was as it was
now with the pips it all made sense xD
and yeah i don't see the difference in practice, its only better at telling you whats happening and what you are supposed to do (without reading a guide)
if any decision making is changed, i am sorry for that but from what i have been gathering its just how info is presented
As a NIN main, the changes feel better but holy crap do I miss haste 😔
They removed skill from blm. Like using sharpcast to get a firestarter for future mobility.
Its also not fun to just be in fire phase all the time. Whats fun is EARNING fire phase.
Also still having to spam umbral soul out of combat is painful when waiting 3 whole minutes for cutscenes.
I just wish Summoner's new summon was more interesting. I've been wanting Shiva forever, but I would've been happy with anything else.
SGE double dot not making it to live is such a shame.
Gunbreaker still plays the same. It's still the same busy tank even though it got rid of rough divide. And we all know double down and lion heart combo is gonna get a continuation combo come 8.0 or 9.0.
i gotta disagree with your points about summoner. First off its not fair for summoners to have their job gutted because the devs wanted a easy casual job. If the devs wanted one they should have made a new job thats easier and more casual instead of redoing an older one. Secondly people are pissed about the fact that we have not gotten a new summon but instead a reskinned bahumat. We've been begging SE for new summons like odin alexander shiva or leviathan but nope enjoy bahumat but shinier.
I used to be a monk main for my DPS, now I'm a Dragoon because there's no randomness to its combos making me have to look at my hotbars constantly to see what procked next.
I used to hate Dragoon because it was slow getting the AOE abilities, I'll take slow ability gain over randomness of what my next hit is any day of the week. True Strike used to be useless, now its a necessity, they should have just removed it or have it be a base for Twin Snakes.
The BLM changes are terrible, gut the skill celling while making the job more rigid and less expressive with sharpcast and thundercloud dead, more punishing, harder to play, genuinely terrible to level with some serious oversights like AF paradox refreshing to early and umbral soul. Even for BLMs that only played standard this is a terrible set of changes. The job gets harder to play for beginners, more boring for people who already played it, and no reward for mastery.
tbh the black mage changes are way better than what most other classes got so idk what people are complaining besides having to have to many buttons while picto gets their buttons condensed into 1
The issue with Black Mage imo is the fact that SE says “No, you WILL spam Fire IV.” Compare the Level 100 Rotation to the Level 60 rotation and tell me if there’s really any difference.
@@LightTheBlackMage also the action bar bloat with the BLM rotation. Fire 3 should become both paradox and flare star, saves action bar space.
I think the biggest issue with summoner is the thematic choices.
Listening to the summoner section hurt my soul. The job isn't even recognizable from what it used to be. The people that "just want a simple job to push buttons" can fuck off and go play red mage lmfao
You're wrong about BLM. The umbral soul ability gives mana with each use. Say you are killing a boss in fire phase and it dies, you transpose to ice and if you use umbral soul 3 times you get full MP. It even says it on the skill for umbral soul. You also still have triplecast so you're able to stack 4 fire 4s on the first 1/2 or back 1/2 of fire phase easily. Especially with leylines I can get in 5 fire 4s in the first 1/2 of fire phase. I don't but you can but I do hit 4 fire 4s in the first 1/2 easily with and without leylines and or triplecast.
I will miss ice paradox because it gave me utility options in ice phase, like if I stacked up some paradox charges. I agree with Sharpcast, it was a clunky spell.
Fair warning, this got long.
It's not meant as a rant, or a vent, but more like my own thoughts on smn and how it could have been handled better. It's a rdm, but as a pet job and no sword. And it sucks that how it's just a pet job. I like smn anyway, but I know it has issues.
Thank you so much for the video highlighting the changes.
My thoughts on summoner.
As someone who still plays summoner in ff11, I came in to ARR and felt a little disappointed, but accepted how summoner played. And then the years went by, and I just had to grit my teeth and remember if I missed anything in the ff14 summoner, I'd just go to ff11.
I had a friend who played WoW, and loved the DoT mage that summoner was in the older expansions. And then when it went full pet job, they were very discouraged, which sucked. For them. I loved that we finally had full sized summons.
In ff11 you get a key item, brave the dangerous route in the wild, to go out and fight the avatars of the summons, in order to gain a pact with them (or kill them for other drops/gil on the daily).
It got you the full sized avatar of that summon. So I am still a bit bummed that we have such a short supply of summons.
I know it has to do with lore, but like, Ramuh was chill with us! It makes sense that we'd get a trail fight with him, and then he joins us. And it would be awesome if the summons made sense again!
Sure Garuda and Ifrit are dps summons, but make Titan more tanky! Ramuh could either focus on DoTs or crowd control. Shiva could be a buffer (adding en-blizzard dmg to players smg). But the devs did away with elemental dmg it seems, I mean they got rid of weapon type dmg.
I once ran a temple of Qarn duty where the tank disconnected and never returned.
And I changed to topaz carbuncle, and it tanked the bees and that minotaur boss easily!
I just had to remind the healer to pay attention to Carby's hp, not mine. XD We got a new tank right after, so I didn't get to test topaz against the final boss. But it was fun! It felt like a really versatile job!
Like when as a blm, I miraculously saved the party by spamming heals when the healer accidentally died towards the end of the Dzmael Darkhold final boss. Because I had that arcanist heal spell that I can't remember the name of right now.
Okay, so.
In ff11, the base carbuncle has dots, heals, a shield, and can cast meteorite. I get that ff14 jobs has to be "you do this role, you never step outside this box!" mentality, but I miss the older version of ff14 where the jobs felt more different. And I miss cleric stance tho just basing healer dmg on mnd makes more sense. XD I still have that item that would let me rearrange my stats when I changed between sch and smn. ^^
I feel you on summoner and still lament that BLU couldn't be a normal job, when FF11 existing proves that it can work.
If you think that the new AST cards have variety you just frankly are fooling yourself. We have these cards in the game right now. They're called Celestial Intersection, Exaltation, and Essential Dignity. Do using those ogcds tingle your brain right now? Losing rapid reaction optimization for 'card variety' is okay for you? I doubt you had much stock in AST to begin with to make a statement like that
I don't understand the upset over Bard songs requiring a target. One was originally doing DoT to the target and the others were applying (admittedly small) non-aspected damage to a target in addition to their party buff abilities. Personally I'd love to see Bard's buff abilities expanded upon and a return of real, actual *support* jobs.
Which I know will never happen...
After what happened to Summoner from Shadowbringers to Endwalker, the simplification of other jobs is just a matter of when. They killed Summoner for me, as I loved the management of the summons and maintaining your dots and spreads depending on the fight. They seem to want to apply the same flattening of the ceiling to all classes and it's definitely going to make me think twice about subbing for too long to even want to raid.
They're simplifying everything in Dawntrail. Just not as fast i guess.
It's depressing, feels like my time is wasted on learning to optimise them.
I love that summoner is an easy for players that need it but a job can be easy but also be fun which new summoner doesnt really succeed at imo it gets stale way to fast .We now have 3 identical demi sumon phases which is a huge waste. Were not asking for a bunch of bullshit to Manage and keep track of we just dont wanna spam astral flare and its equivalents for 15 seconds, phoinex in shadowbringer had a 2 action combo but it got removed for some reason in favor of 1 button spam. Square couldve done literally anything else to make basically the only new dawntrail addition unique but they just...didnt 😅 new aoe heal ig so now healers can heal even less now lol
I tire of this farce....give Plunge back, Yoshi P.
Summoner was always a complicated caster, almost like BLM. Contrast with Red Mage, who was baby's first caster dps. With EW, you couldn't tell that SMN was ever difficult with how braindead it is to play now.
Ast, my God what did they do to my boy? The card mechanic is so far away from what it used to be, it might as well be called WHM lite again.
Scholar continues to be beaten into the ground, to make way for WHM dps and 3 other healers having shields.
If they nerf Sage's damage gains, then I think people will just quit healing in general.
WHM is Square's favorite green dps. Why would they ever nerf them?
SMN is popular cause it's two jobs from one class so leveling is breeze.
I am main Sam widow of kaiten, pepehands,
perhaps I move on to another game because the game is not for me anymore, have fun guys
Summoner is for casual players...
Didn't use to be like that... sigh
So warriors will continnue to unga bunga? i am fine with that :D
I'm looking forward to the Black Mage changes 😅
I'm not upset about SMN having almost no changes, I'm upset that the new thing is JUST Robothamut. Everyone wanted Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva, but all we got was another Bahamut. Literally 0 flavor to their only new toy for the next 3 years. We could've had Alexander or Odin, or maybe Hydaelyn. Aesthetic matters, and Solar Bahamut has none of that.
Dawntrail Summoner feels like an afterthought, like the devs genuinely forgot it existed and had to scramble to give them something no matter how mediocre it was.
I'm glad Pictomancer is gonna be a thing, 'cuz I'm completely dropping Summoner.
Till they stop giving you new things to paint.
you can just hear the lack of testosterone here
Wow. They ruin blackmage. Good thing ill just be moving to pictomancer. Probably what they wanted
I'm glad someone else understands that SMN is simple on purpose and doesn't need to completely evolve with every expansion anymore. That's my comfort job, now. Maybe they'll add some complexity when they start to address "job identity" in the future, but for now? I'm chillin.
how out of date is this video? does black mages still suck?
As a casual player imma excited for BLM changes; it’s probably gonna change up how to do big explosions! Optimization and skill expression can come later.
The paradox thing do i not understand.
In EW was whe able to cast 3-4x fire4, until whe had to cast paradox, before the timer is out.
But, because it had cast time, did whe needed to have the needed time in mind.
Why would we be now have the problems, that whe can only use fire 4 3 times, when paradox is instant cast?
It should be now much saver to cast 4 times F4, because whe can use paradox at practicly the last second.
It has nothing to do with standart line. It's all about reaching 3% more dps through obscure setups with transpose and ice paradox. BLM mains are compalining that now their job will be boring since they will get to only do one thing and not be able to do what they use to. For casual BLM players this update will change nothing. For hadcore players deep into 40 pages long spreadsheet of theorycrafting there's... well there's no more theorycrafting : you will do your 6 fire IV into despair flarestar.
Also many minutes details such as not being able to cast 2 instant thunder for some specific add phase with 2 ennemies.
Nothing done for low level BLM gameplay too. they absolutely did not think, as usual, about low level gameplay. They always focus on the current max level experience and are gutting anything below max level and this time it's really aggravating.
@@liquidefreet And yet, do i failing to see a problem, why instant paradox would be worse, as to have to cast paradox.
I see only improvement by instant Version.
Similary to the 70er spell. Who is with 70 - around 80 a casting spell. And become only near 80 instant.
It improve the skill and flow much more, to have it instant.
This is definitely the most fun SAM has ever been and I can honestly just laugh at these people who complain about every little thing.
Only children expect everything in life to be perfect so I find it very hard to understand how grown-ups are this ungrateful when life is actually pretty damn good with all these new exciting changes.
Where did this idiotic mentality come from that If one person says something everyone has to agree? Jesus people start using your brains. If you don't like something move on and stop making everything about you!
Thank goodness the dev team ignores these people, if they hadn't we would be sitting where World of Warcraft is today. A mess of a game that caters to the loud narcissistic minority.
Completely disagree with you on Summoner. Reason is because there is such things as keeping things too simple, aka: boring and repetitive. Summoner had 0 decision making process in Endwalker and was prime for improvement and depth to be added in Dawntrail. It didn't need an overhaul, just added depth. The lack of any real decision making process will see summoner as a class die in Dawntrail by 7.1. People will still play it, level it to 100, run it through a dungeon or two, and never touch it again.
Worst of all, it does seem Square-enix is back to it's habit of not listening to its fanbase as several classes feel to homogenized, rather than having their own distinctive playstyle. While it can be better for balancing, from a development standpoint it can seem lazy if every class is designed to be the same. This is part of the reason why summoners are so upset, because the class we've been playing since Endwalker launched is 100% exactly the same with no real substance added; despite us going to level 100 and likely the end of the standard leveling system. (Aka: expect merit points/job/class points in 8.0).
SE needs to rethink it's approach on summoner and many of the other classes that got short changed, and come back with something substantial for 7.1, or risk losing millions of subscribers till 8.0, which trust me, despite their relaxed view on gaming, they do NOT want to risk.
I mean, this might be true, to an extent in very very high level play, but that's a very small part of ffxivs community.
Sucks, but its true.
You claim they're not listening to their fan base, but its pretty evenly split on the topic you're talking about and Yoshi himself has addressed this.
Nothings going to make everyone happy.
@@mayleelove4332 the "high end" you're talking about, is literally everyone who has a job capped at 90 now, and has MSQ completed. That's not a minority, that's the vast majority. It seems about 85% of the playerbase has at least 1 Manderville weapon finished. At least 1 job at 660 item level. This means that most people were clearing raid and dungeon content. And btw, the most popular class for endgame content by far in Endwalker, was summoner. You can look at most played from several sites and see for yourself.
Sorry, but you're flat out wrong. I've played enough MMOs to see what happens when depth is sacrificed for homogenization. It results in subscriber losses. SE is hoping to have Dawntrail launch a new story arc, and at level 100, there's an expectation that classes would have some depth at this point before merit point/job point systems take over and its not there. You'll see what I mean when 7.1 rolls out in November/December. If nothing changes, the active player count will plummet.
@jayq1904 I mean, other than using fflogs, which only a very small part of the community uses, there's no way to get what job is the most popular.
You can see how many people have it through census, but they don't really tell you how many people play it.
Either way, youre only polling the savage community.
And I mean, they said the same thing at swb and ew release. Yet nothings happened.
@@mayleelove4332 lol no, some naysayers said that about the summoner changes after Shadowbringers, no one was saying the games dying with Endwalker, not with how the story and gameplay were improved. What's happening in Dawntrail isn't improvement, its homogenization, and its a brand new story, so thats more or less unknown. The problem is, if SAM plays like RPR, who plays like DRG, who plays like VIP, people are gonna clear the story, run dungeons/raids for 2 weeks and bail, exactly like what happens in modern WoW.
@jayq1904 All your saying is anything you play is viable.
And yes, people say the game is going to die every single patch since HW, lmao. This is nothing new.
At least in HW, there were problems that desperately needed fixing.
WAR got the coolest changes. Just my opinion (which aint worth much) lol
Seeing player commentary about FF14 jobs has always been interesting to me, because it feels like almost all complexity (with the sole possible exception of black mage due to the heavy focus on cast time) is basically an illusion. There's this weird detachment between the button presses and the actions taking place that makes it just feel like you're just executing arbitrary actions to maintain damage levels (almost like if the game had a random "tap your foot every 5 seconds" requirement to increase your DPS by 5% or something). Having a button that you do or don't press every 30 seconds just doesn't really "feel" the same in FF14 as pressing a button in a game where there's a more "physical" affect than just "triggering a number and an animation with some particle effects."
Rationally I realize that all game button pressing is basically an illusion where the button pressing is being translated to visuals and numbers in the game, but it just feels like that illusion is exceptionally weak with FF14. It's hard for me to be excited about new jobs or changes to existing jobs, since it just feels like "different arbitrary button algorithms."
I think the main culprit of this is the way the GCD works in FF14. There isn't really the same feeling of "I'm directly doing things with my button presses*" - instead most of your button presses are just queuing up actions to happen sometime in the next second or so, and even the oGCDs have a feeling of detachment to them. And the effects themselves also have a less "tangible" feel to them since they're almost always just "animations + particle effects" (and even the skills that move you do so in very clearly defined ways).
This isn't really a bad thing about FF14's design, though. I'd argue that this lack of "flexibility" is necessary to the way its encounters are designed - you can't allow the players to affect the boss (so any sort of physical interaction with the boss is a no-no, and same with being able to stun/etc the boss outside of the the fight mechanics), and player movement needs to be very predictable. But it does make it difficult for me to understand how people get so invested in the minutiae of the way the jobs work. All I personally care about is "do I like the aesthetic" and "is it easy enough for me to handle?"
* Basically how much it feels like you're "directly controlling the character" with your button pressing, which is a function of various things (like "how responsive it is" and "how much fine control you have over the actions of the character"). In the best case, you can almost forget you're pressing buttons on a keyboard/control.
Honestly the fact that they made thunder no longer a dot on BLM is just one less thing that we have to worry about and fixate more on just maintaining our rotations and removes the randomness of trying to weave in those thunder procs. Hopefully this brings in more players playing a class that isn't really popular due to the difficulty level.
Thunder is still a dot, it just has a starting potency now lol
you mean all jobs werent in the essentially no changes tier?
tanks got even more simplified to reduce queue times for dungeons and such for dps.
This game becomes more bland with each patch.
I dont like being manipulated with a thumbnail and watching a bunch of stuff i dont want to see just to get to that info, but thanks for the time stamps..
As for the black mage, why even give abilitys if you dont really have choice in when or how to use them, just give us one button that does the ability allowed at the time.
Black mage got the most boring looking spell. That’s why.
I'm disappointed by bard
This game is not a choice game is a path that you follow, not one you make yourself. I hope the devs where thinking on getting rid of the non standard rotation to make it easy to balance the intended rotation.... but what do I know I'm just a casual.
Every game kind of ends up like that tbf. The meta always wins
SMN has literally zero room for skill expression, which in my opinion is something that every other job has