What a great and interesting episode. Lloyd saying how we all feel about pricing and Tony with his vast amount of industry experience telling us the reasons why. Maybe its time to do everything in Country, instead of having barrels and stocks made by outside recourses that we have no control over. This has become a downfall with most things manufactured. Loved the Airsporter. I had the Rellum Tornado, and my shooting partner the Airsporter, which everyone wanted back in the 70s.
Thanks for a great video. Have inherited an old BSA Airsporter S .177, and own a BSA Ultra .177. Great guns! Would love to see an update on your RTI Priest...
I have just spoken to my mate Graham of Crawfords shooting Supplies, tomorrow I'm getting a BSA Airsporter MK2 in mint condition, thanks for Great videos guys
Airgun prices are getting out of hand, I bought my first Daystate Airworlf back in 2007 brand new for a little more than £700 from Daystate at the midlands game fair. Now the red wolf is an extra £1000!!!
I popped into Saturday ( 270 mile round trip ) too buy the theoben silencer on special offer , reckon I saved £5 coming too collect , rather then having sent too my local RFD ... think folk must have heard about the price increases , as the shop was full and rifles seem too be flying off the shelf ... nice shop too visit ..didnt even go on the beach ... came straight back home ( just below Birmingham ) ... RIGHT !!! Im Gonna name the silencer ... the " STRATOS " And a second go ( had a bit of a think while eating me mixed grill just ) Thinking of the " terminator ".. as me second choice
Hi good video nice bsa airsporter I gave 150 for my mk2 and 100 for a cadet Magor 177. mk2 not as clean as that one. and just the other day gave 50 pounds for a airarmes khamsin and a ruff airsporter 's both working and shooting straight nice bit of history
You have shown the airsporter which has been on of bsa‘s iconic airguns,could you please do the much forgotten Bsa mercury mk11. Its something everyone forgets,but was on par with the airsporter.Many thanks ian
All that's going to happen is people will start to buy from Kral, Hatsan, look at the WALTHER ROTEX RM8 a great gun for the price, under £400, there is a lot of air gun snobbery lol i my self have 2 air rifles a MK1 s200 .177 that is made from parts i picked up and shoots like a dream and an old BSA s10bbk, i sit with guy's at the club,that have paid well over £1000 for there gun's and surprisingly don't shoot any better than mine, 10% rise on air rifles is shocking.
Good rli because apart from stubbing my toe my pet hate are air rifle snobs i shoot ft and have wiped the smile of the faces of a few hw100 and bsa goldstar owners at the range with my 80k lol it is tuned to all heck however 😂✌and they were very snobbish saying this and that about my springer i was just chuckling to myself as literally nothing apart from the stock is ...erm stock on it nowdays 😁✌
Could the reason the market in England is static is because theres a lack of shooting ranges??? I live in Liverpool and regularly used to travel 100 mile round trip to Atherton indoor range or Owls Hoot, because they are nearest to me. I am guessing you would need a letter from God to open an air rifle range in liverpool.
There's plenty of full-bore ranges in Liverpool and surrounding area it seems. nra.org.uk/clubs/northwestclubs/ Opening an air rifle range = Get a field. Put a berm in. Make a firing point. Open it. (Might need planning for a business as you would any business but it doesn't require home office approval or anything afaia)
ive bought and sold a few second hand airguns it is a great place for a good deal i havent bought a new gun in 5yrs and i was planing buying a new gun the higher prices dont put me off but it is making me more careful about what ime buying and of corse selling my old guns giving someone a good deal 👍
Thanks for a thumb up. !!!!!!!!! I need to wait because winter is still strong here in south east Norway. Today -8 `C Brrrrrr.... Pleas keep doing what you do , specially with the "all knowing " guest Tony Bilas
Thank you for the information regarding the BSA Superstar "Gas Ram". I bought one mid-90's S/H and always thought it was an after-market mod. I shall examine it closely.
Tony sums it up very well from around 2 minutes in. Virtually all manufacturing of complex engineered items is global these days - apparently home-built products all include parts which are sourced from (often many) other countries. One might ask why we can't make everything in the UK, but the answer is that R&D and tooling up is enormously expensive and companies would not realistically be able to recoup the cost of doing it all in-house unless they charged even higher prices. Specialist makers of barrels and stocks - such as Minelli or Lothar Walther, for example, have massive knowledge bases and experience, which they have built up over many years (and at great expense). They can produce high-quality parts at lower cost and it is simply more cost-effective for UK companies to buy in their products than to manufacture their own. There are parallels in virtually all industries - automotive, for example, where many components, up to and including complete engines, are bought in ready-made.
Yes, we've all heard this argument before, and just vanished into being a second rate service economy. We need to start home manufacturing again, regardless. The talent and expertise is here, the approach to globalisation just ignores it.
@@malcolmtaylor518 "Regardless"? Regardless of what? Economic reality? The bald fact is that recouping the development costs involved in making everything in-house will mean that UK companies will have to charge more, probably much more. Sales will suffer as a result. Are you prepared to put your hand in your pocket and pay over the odds for home grown? You need to engage with the issue on more than just an emotional level. We do still manufacture a lot of specialist and usually low volume products in this country successfully. However, we cannot compete on mass produced items. Our days as the "workshop of the world" are behind us, I'm afraid.
@@laurieharper1526 Thanks for your reply. I'm not taking an emotional, or nostalgic viewpoint. We need to start large scale manufacturing again because people need to be gainfully employed, we need the craft expertise that emanates from this, we need to bring flighty capital back to our shores, and Britain needs to rediscover purpose and vision. Since the covid agenda has increased the national debt by nearly 700 billion is my comment about "regardless", so expensive?
I did build my silencer with curler. 2 layer green and yellow and pink ones over each connecting ( 3 in length) then just tape around . Tape at the muzzle for fitting . It´s a stick on silencer! Ugly as hell but, going from 98 dB down to 56 dB at my FAC Bobcat.
When I was about 12 in the mid 60's my pal Mike Brown had an airsporter of which I was very envious. I ended up getting a second hand Relum Tornado a couple of years down the line. Cost me £10, still got it.
Great presentation from Lloyd and Tony showcasing a classic BSA Airsporterk mk2 which was the last of the best Airsporters. From the mk3 onwards their quality and performance nose dived until the arrival of the RB type which had potential to perform at much higher power levels but quality again had been reduced. The trigger block on all the previous Airsporters were screwed into the cylinder and this wasn't the case with the RB type which had three screws holding the trigger block to the cylinder. BSA and indeed Webley fought to stave off German competition with attractive but inferior quality products. Though the BSA Mercury Challenger, Supersport and Superstar and Goldstar rifles were better performers than their previous models as were the Omega and Eclipse models from Webley. The Tuetonic invasion had in effect put these once great manufactures firmly on the back seat and for that we can thank Weihrauch for their superbly engineered HW35, HW77 and HW80. Air Arms responded to the challenge with the TX200 in 1991 and in 1996 came the Propsort models which are the very best spring piston air rifles in the world along with Weihrauch. Then Air Arms takes a retro step by increasing the piston stroke on their spring rifles and fitting a weaker spring leaving a once perfect sub 12 ft lbs platform lazy and lethargic. But when we talk of PCP air rifles I am in no doubt whatsoever that Britain leads the world: Daystate and Air Arms are quite simply the best. IMVHO.
Agreed on pricing- I paid £840-odd for my Series 500+ and that was an expensive rifle at the time, the equivalent today is ~£1200 or so. It seems like £500 is 'cheap', £900 is 'normal', and £1200+ is 'high-end'. That kind of trend is unsustainable and we'll see more brands go the way of the Dodo, ending up with nothing but a few premium brands and oddball European / Chinese stuff pretty much.
A great episode to start the week,interesting comments on the price rises for new Air Rifles, i think people will always pay for quality,for me the recent price rise on Air Arms is relevant to what you get for your money, i am looking to purchase a new Ultimate Sporter with the Walnut stock in early 2019,Air Arms prices have been fairly static for the last 3 years or so,but when you factor in 'cost of living/manufacturing' etc & now the 3 year Warranty,which to me is a big factor for purchasing an Air Arms product,on another point i recently bought a Kral NP02 which is a brilliant piece of kit for the money,something of a bargain in my opinion, a name for your Moderator, Phantom !!
I have a walther rotex. I love it. Accurate as something twice as dear. Bit heavy. Not as sexy as a wildcat or daystate. But I won't be changing it soon.
On the subject of pricing, there are people who will spend on the higher priced kit but like me find it difficult to contact dealers. Some don't bother to update there Webb sites, answer emails or pick up the phone. Customers are like fish if you don't catch them you won't keep them.
Bought a new Gamo kit when I got back into air guns, but then after a few months I wanted a hw100 and when down the second hand route and picked up a nice hw100kt laminate. Now I want a S410 TDR and a hw44 and they will both be second hand ones.
I have a BSA Superstar made by Theoben with the adjustable ram. Apparently the BSA Superstar was meant to be a mass produced gas ram rifle & the work was done by Theoben. BSA went bust & when GAMO bought them the Superstar continue into production as a springer. All adjustable rammed Superstars were actually converted with the appropriate parts & fitted with a slimline silencer by Theoben. Only 150 were made.
Couple of beers joke about silencer / moderator names. How about the "What" or the "Pardon", cos you didn't hear it. But remember you heard it here first. Enjoying your vids. Good info and in my opinion you work really well together. Cheers.
I'd like to hear from Tony what's happened to all the Sterling Armaments designs that he had me so excited about earlier this year. It really looked like we were seeing the emergence of a proper UK made rifle rather than just the assembly of foreign made parts.
"Mr Shhhh..." for the silencer name, cribbing from the name of the Assassin played by Steve Buscemi in the film "Things to do in Denver when you're dead". >:o) The 10% increase AA & HW might well be catching up with materials etc, but Air Arms won't sell action-only, so in order to get my S510 XS in a GRS stock (thanks Lloyd & BAR) -I now have an unused S500/S400-series Walnut stock for sale. :o/
Lovely to see an airsporter on the vid at last, nice to know I can get a good model for about 300 so will be looking in from time to time Lloyd. Didn't the Omega launch coinside with air arms range of spring guns or have I lost a decade or two, seem to remember the air arms side levers all over the place (jackal's) and a lot of interest with them ? anyway a good watch guys and will look forward to the next one. atb Phil
I have a mk1 Airsporter in near mint condition having a maximum of 1000 pellets fired,had it for about 42 years and it belonged to a neighbours son who bought it brand new a week before dying in a motorcycle accident . It was unused in the original box complete with tube of pellets a bottle of oil and a target holder and targets...stupidly they where thrown away !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .Would happily sell it to the right person who would cherish and ultimately pass on this British gun maker heirloom .
The webley omega safety catch was just a variant of the fwb sport and the original 45 safety mechs which both could be reset so the omega wasn't new I've worked on that gasram omega of Mr Jones its a nice gun shame webley never put it into production.
Not sure how true it was, but I'd heard Theoben wanted the gasram idea to be available to more shooters, so were courting other manufacturers to design around it. The rumour was the BSA Superstar/Goldstar and Supersport were all designed with in mind, and some early examples had very smooth piston inner surface as the ram was to seal on the piston. Ironic really, I had an Airsporter and a Theoben Sirocco (before the Superstar was unveiled), and the BSA was the better rabbit rifle as a tuned springer is quieter than a gasram.
I feel for you Loyd,my self and my brother have been selling air rifles for over 40 years,now retired,i was finding It hard the last year ,but luckily for me coincided with reirement.Tony my way Belas was never a shining star in my network of suppliers.Will leave it there.good luck for the future !
Loved my webley & scott omega chose it rather than the hw80. Shot fantastic never trapped finger in barrel lock . Used it hunting it's well weathered need that one
I was chatting to you about this in the shop a couple of weeks ago and as I said I would rather pay a bit extra for a gun that had not been cheapened by inferior parts and materials. Not necessarily 10% but enough to cover their suppliers rises. To be fair I’ve never spent big on air rifles until the 510 ultimate sporter that I really wanted. Also there are always cheaper brands as the walther rm8 etc which are very good rifles, and 2nd hand too
It seems to me in the industry today the more you pay the better the gun I own a Gamo Coyote and I brought that on a deal gun, sights, bag, gun lock and cap for £399 and at my club I can out shoot guys who have guns 4 times the amount of mine We had a target out at 75 yards I zeroed mine then hit it and a guy futher down the line said who hit that now his gun was full to the brim of bells and whistles and I said it was me and laughing turning to his mates and said beginners luck even though I've had air guns since I was 14 so bang bang bang bang bang five times in a row I turned to him and said wow that beginners luck is awesome
Also, can you ask “Stomper”? If he would think about doing an attachment to the cocking lever for the hk100kt please? Mine atm is a plastic/rubber and looks ok, but a skull on the end would look AWESOME!!!!
I have had trouble with my omega trigger . I feel it was due to the piston outer dia being undersized , to fix the problem I put plastic buttons into the piston . the piston know glides better and the trigger works . before I fixed the problem with the trigger to get the trigger to engage you would have to pull the last bit when cocking the rifle very aggressively this would not always work . I was wondering if you had a problem like this . theobens quality control is very good so I would thing not .
Silencer name hubble, i know the superstar had the theoben set up in it which could be had upto 20ftlb in fac trim. It was the same set up with the screw in pump fitting. Theoben where making these for bsa also some protype omega's also had the adjustable set up as well. I shot both of these guns.
I think they are getting a bit over the top price wise as well, im also still of the opinion that there is still a case of Rip of Britain going on. I have been looking at the Sig m17 CO2 pistol UK price £199 seen it for £189, or in the US $139 full price but found for $95.99 at Airgun Depot. now thats some difference. PS LOVE THIS SHOW
I have an old BSA Airsporter that has been neglected due to storage in garage. I live not far from London. Where can I take it to sell it and how much could it be worth. I think it was made in the 50s.
@@hotair4269 Thank you very much indeed, I will try that. I bought the rifle about 40 years ago, in good condition. It was in a tatty bag and I put it in the garage away from the kids and forgot about it. When I brought it in the house, I could see the bluing was in a poor state. Not sure, but could be 1953 or 1958. I seem to remember checking the date, but not 100% sure what date it was. Once again, I thank you.
I don't think guns are that expensive when you think of the quality we get today. When i was younger i used to destroy guns at least once a month buy over cocking them. Now they last 5 years before they need servicing but then a rifle is half price, you can pay the same again on scope bipod other accessories. Liquid carbon wife muffler for silencer name
Anyone, (Not Me) who has £800 to spend on a gun will find the extra £80 if they want it. Most dealers would chuck in a couple of tins of good pellets (worth £26) as a sweetener anyway. Remember - the shop buy their pellets a lot, lot cheaper at trade prices.
Good vid. Price increase from the 2 big selling "quality" manufacturers can only be a bad thing. Wealthy buyers will bypass them in favour of more exotic guns (arguably now worth the extra) and poorer buyers will buy the cheaper manufacturers guns. Instead of being thought of as "quality" guns, they're in danger of becoming "not worth the money guns" .. Silencer " the Muzzler"
New to air gunning comment, why is the current market limited, mainly, to PCP and springers? I've just bought a 2nd hand Walther LGR SSP (Single Stroke Pneumatic) target air rifle, which easily equals PCP's for accuracy and is far better for developing my shooting skills. So why are this type of air rifle not made any more?
So glad ive already got my dream 3 rifles a tx an 80k and a 99s ones custom tuned totally luke jolly trigger the lot and thats the 80k if i got another rifle it would be an artimis m16d from smk but i do want the hw44 or a artimis pcp pistol apart from that im one of them airgunners that's totally happy with there collectionl..im lucky too coz my 80k came with a hw silencer standard considering how tuned it is i still use it its better than my hugget
Pound to dollar has been floating around 1.30 for yonks. Parity? Really? And the pound to Euro has been about 1.15 for while a now with 'cent sized' fluctuations. If we were on the Euro we have 10% less buying power. Perhaps oil? Perhaps with the US market airgun reaching maturity, growing popularity in Europe, and growing sophistication the top end of the market is just settling. How much do the top end shooters pay for their custom jobs and work back perhaps? EDIT: I am busy and had to stop the video before listening and then made my comment. Sorry if I just echoed what I said.
the market is broadening with newcoming manufacturers and new prices. there is a lot to choose from with evident prices and different quality. the midrange is getting better you get more bang for your buck. when i look at Kral and see you can buy a pcp with barrel exchange system and two barrels and 4 magazines for the price of 750euro's (netherlands) it's hard to walk by and look for a FX because these are at least double the price!! (quality wise better but are they 2 times better?? have to find out) this gun is called the: Nemesis and is a semi bullpup. (www.krale.com) names for the silencers: the big one= Big Wave; the small one = Tiny Wave; the drop in= Droplet; the leshey= Lesser Leshey great show as always!! thanks guys
Imo I think the prices are getting out of hand but for manufacturers like smk (artemis) kral, cometa etc it's only good news for them as more people will look to them as they are half the price of others
I wish all airgun shops had owners like this. Many times i wondered why i spent my money in them, for all the attention i recieved. You just wander around looking through the glass display cabinet, and left to get on with it. Any enquiries by e/mail gets a short response with no follow up. Perhaps they make so much money they dont have to worry. If they had real competion on the web that enabled us to buy without the gunshops ripping us off with their fees for accepting via the post. Perhaps its just me but i have found many of them a miserable lot
I think the UK manufacturers are pushing it a bit! rimfires are far better value for money? BUT< the hassle of fac's etc. In the USA Diana have made it very obvious to that market that the new lower end affordable range are sourced from the far east but with better quality control and some go through the factory for additional modding before being given a new model name and shipping out.we can all recognise their heritage. The more expensive range is German made and of higher quality. ? I have a SMK208 Diana 34 copy,new £99.95, its pretty good too,nice finish good trigger and well put together, a good fun shooter not as accurate as my little HW30S but i can spend a couple of hours on the range just shooting groups,very relaxing. I can see why Diana would want to rename and fettle some of these products for the entry level range. Perhaps the UK manufacturers are thinking along those lines?or just sell up market products as long as the market place can stand the prices,then collapse and blame it all on cheap labour?having neglected the lower end price point of the market?Already there is no British break barrel made. The history of the British motor cycle industry repeated? My AAS400F is now 6yrs old and mint , a first class product of British manufacturing and long may it keep going! cant afford to replace it !
I sometimes compare the prices with .22lr rifles. My R10 at what £800-ish is twice as much as a CZ455. The thing is the latter is produced in huge quantities compared to the former. But saying that the former technology wise is much more complicated. The R10 is mid-range I think compared to your Daystates and above the badge engineered Turkish brands. But I am getting a lot of value for it I think compared to an out of the box CZ. I haven't touched the trigger for example, it is what I call a 'think and shoot' trigger; to get a Timney trigger for a 455 would be another £100. Where you do see variation is when the rimfire builders sell say a limited edition laminate stock. CZ are selling a 455 with a black and yellow stock and anodised metal for about £800. I think Deben are being a bit greedy. And I think Hull Carts are taking advantage over Brexit.
BSA Airsporter, my first, and definitely favourite air rifle 😍
two guys who know the trade ...care about the customers and who talk absolute sense
What a great and interesting episode. Lloyd saying how we all feel about pricing and Tony with his vast amount of industry experience telling us the reasons why. Maybe its time to do everything in Country, instead of having barrels and stocks made by outside recourses that we have no control over. This has become a downfall with most things manufactured. Loved the Airsporter. I had the Rellum Tornado, and my shooting partner the Airsporter, which everyone wanted back in the 70s.
I've still got my Omega carbine, bought from new, i've never had a problem with it. It's a great gun.
Out of curiosity what pellets shot best in your omega.
Another Great Episode Guys... keep 'em coming.
Still cheaper than Golf; and more socially acceptable!
Very good point !!
Thanks for a great video. Have inherited an old BSA Airsporter S .177, and own a BSA Ultra .177. Great guns! Would love to see an update on your RTI Priest...
I have just spoken to my mate Graham of Crawfords shooting Supplies, tomorrow I'm getting a BSA Airsporter MK2 in mint condition, thanks for Great videos guys
Glad to see the mat, spotted it right away 👍
Retailer and industry insider always makes for interesting insights into the Airgun industry. Lovely vintage rifles too. Great episode guys 👍
Airgun prices are getting out of hand, I bought my first Daystate Airworlf back in 2007 brand new for a little more than £700 from Daystate at the midlands game fair. Now the red wolf is an extra £1000!!!
Lol in the states every daystate is 2000.00 to 3000.00 dollars
I popped into Saturday ( 270 mile round trip ) too buy the theoben silencer on special offer , reckon I saved £5 coming too collect , rather then having sent too my local RFD ... think folk must have heard about the price increases , as the shop was full and rifles seem too be flying off the shelf ... nice shop too visit ..didnt even go on the beach ... came straight back home ( just below Birmingham ) ... RIGHT !!! Im Gonna name the silencer ... the " STRATOS "
And a second go ( had a bit of a think while eating me mixed grill just )
Thinking of the " terminator ".. as me second choice
Hi good video nice bsa airsporter I gave 150 for my mk2 and 100 for a cadet Magor 177. mk2 not as clean as that one. and just the other day gave 50 pounds for a airarmes khamsin and a ruff airsporter 's both working and shooting straight nice bit of history
You have shown the airsporter which has been on of bsa‘s iconic airguns,could you please do the much forgotten Bsa mercury mk11. Its something everyone forgets,but was on par with the airsporter.Many thanks ian
All that's going to happen is people will start to buy from Kral, Hatsan, look at the WALTHER ROTEX RM8 a great gun for the price, under £400, there is a lot of air gun snobbery lol i my self have 2 air rifles a MK1 s200 .177 that is made from parts i picked up and shoots like a dream and an old BSA s10bbk, i sit with guy's at the club,that have paid well over £1000 for there gun's and surprisingly don't shoot any better than mine, 10% rise on air rifles is shocking.
Good rli because apart from stubbing my toe my pet hate are air rifle snobs i shoot ft and have wiped the smile of the faces of a few hw100 and bsa goldstar owners at the range with my 80k lol it is tuned to all heck however 😂✌and they were very snobbish saying this and that about my springer i was just chuckling to myself as literally nothing apart from the stock is ...erm stock on it nowdays 😁✌
Could the reason the market in England is static is because theres a lack of shooting ranges??? I live in Liverpool and regularly used to travel 100 mile round trip to Atherton indoor range or Owls Hoot, because they are nearest to me. I am guessing you would need a letter from God to open an air rifle range in liverpool.
There's plenty of full-bore ranges in Liverpool and surrounding area it seems.
nra.org.uk/clubs/northwestclubs/
Opening an air rifle range = Get a field. Put a berm in. Make a firing point. Open it. (Might need planning for a business as you would any business but it doesn't require home office approval or anything afaia)
ive bought and sold a few second hand airguns it is a great place for a good deal i havent bought a new gun in 5yrs and i was planing buying a new gun the higher prices dont put me off but it is making me more careful about what ime buying and of corse selling my old guns giving someone a good deal 👍
Thanks for a thumb up. !!!!!!!!! I need to wait because winter is still strong here in south east Norway. Today -8 `C Brrrrrr.... Pleas keep doing what you do , specially with the "all knowing " guest Tony Bilas
Thank you for the information regarding the BSA Superstar "Gas Ram". I bought one mid-90's S/H and always thought it was an after-market mod. I shall examine it closely.
Tony sums it up very well from around 2 minutes in. Virtually all manufacturing of complex engineered items is global these days - apparently home-built products all include parts which are sourced from (often many) other countries. One might ask why we can't make everything in the UK, but the answer is that R&D and tooling up is enormously expensive and companies would not realistically be able to recoup the cost of doing it all in-house unless they charged even higher prices. Specialist makers of barrels and stocks - such as Minelli or Lothar Walther, for example, have massive knowledge bases and experience, which they have built up over many years (and at great expense). They can produce high-quality parts at lower cost and it is simply more cost-effective for UK companies to buy in their products than to manufacture their own. There are parallels in virtually all industries - automotive, for example, where many components, up to and including complete engines, are bought in ready-made.
Yes, we've all heard this argument before, and just vanished into being a second rate service economy. We need to start home manufacturing again, regardless. The talent and expertise is here, the approach to globalisation just ignores it.
@@malcolmtaylor518 "Regardless"? Regardless of what? Economic reality? The bald fact is that recouping the development costs involved in making everything in-house will mean that UK companies will have to charge more, probably much more. Sales will suffer as a result. Are you prepared to put your hand in your pocket and pay over the odds for home grown? You need to engage with the issue on more than just an emotional level. We do still manufacture a lot of specialist and usually low volume products in this country successfully. However, we cannot compete on mass produced items. Our days as the "workshop of the world" are behind us, I'm afraid.
@@laurieharper1526 Thanks for your reply. I'm not taking an emotional, or nostalgic viewpoint. We need to start large scale manufacturing again because people need to be gainfully employed, we need the craft expertise that emanates from this, we need to bring flighty capital back to our shores, and Britain needs to rediscover purpose and vision. Since the covid agenda has increased the national debt by nearly 700 billion is my comment about "regardless", so expensive?
I did build my silencer with curler. 2 layer green and yellow and pink ones over each connecting ( 3 in length) then just tape around . Tape at the muzzle for fitting . It´s a stick on silencer! Ugly as hell but, going from 98 dB down to 56 dB at my FAC Bobcat.
Wow its been a long time since we have seen any thing from these two... Hope everyone is keeping safe... Roll on better times
Not only are we both alive and well but we will be back with more episodes now lockdowns ( hopefully) coming to an end :)
Tony and his Company do very well and I appreciate that !! Any boss has to be he is . his heart is in it !!!!!
Hot AIR Silencer. ....LOVE THE SHOW. ....
Had one in the 70s, great rifle
Love the show
Loyd is honest and Tony is the Wikipedia of the air rifle world
Name suggestions
Carbon Blackout
The Dead Air
The Mute-Ant
When I was about 12 in the mid 60's my pal Mike Brown had an airsporter of which I was very envious. I ended up getting a second hand Relum Tornado a couple of years down the line. Cost me £10, still got it.
Now its a collectors item. Who would have thought !
Great presentation from Lloyd and Tony showcasing a classic BSA Airsporterk mk2 which was the last of the best Airsporters. From the mk3 onwards their quality and performance nose dived until the arrival of the RB type which had potential to perform at much higher power levels but quality again had been reduced. The trigger block on all the previous Airsporters were screwed into the cylinder and this wasn't the case with the RB type which had three screws holding the trigger block to the cylinder. BSA and indeed Webley fought to stave off German competition with attractive but inferior quality products. Though the BSA Mercury Challenger, Supersport and Superstar and Goldstar rifles were better performers than their previous models as were the Omega and Eclipse models from Webley. The Tuetonic invasion had in effect put these once great manufactures firmly on the back seat and for that we can thank Weihrauch for their superbly engineered HW35, HW77 and HW80.
Air Arms responded to the challenge with the TX200 in 1991 and in 1996 came the Propsort models which are the very best spring piston air rifles in the world along with Weihrauch.
Then Air Arms takes a retro step by increasing the piston stroke on their spring rifles and fitting a weaker spring leaving a once perfect sub 12 ft lbs platform lazy and lethargic.
But when we talk of PCP air rifles I am in no doubt whatsoever that Britain leads the world: Daystate and Air Arms are quite simply the best. IMVHO.
Agreed on pricing- I paid £840-odd for my Series 500+ and that was an expensive rifle at the time, the equivalent today is ~£1200 or so. It seems like £500 is 'cheap', £900 is 'normal', and £1200+ is 'high-end'. That kind of trend is unsustainable and we'll see more brands go the way of the Dodo, ending up with nothing but a few premium brands and oddball European / Chinese stuff pretty much.
I bought the first Omega Carbine that our then local gunshop had in stock.
great video guys i love them old brit air rifles they take me back a bit and how about nebula for the silencers
Regarding the silencer LS1 ....
Lloyd Schober 1 as it was your idea ..... immortallity .. named after a silencer and it rolls off the tounge
May I suggest.........Tranquility - the sound of silence?
A great episode to start the week,interesting comments on the price rises for new Air Rifles, i think people will always pay for quality,for me the recent price rise on Air Arms is relevant to what you get for your money, i am looking to purchase a new Ultimate Sporter with the Walnut stock in early 2019,Air Arms prices have been fairly static for the last 3 years or so,but when you factor in 'cost of living/manufacturing' etc & now the 3 year Warranty,which to me is a big factor for purchasing an Air Arms product,on another point i recently bought a Kral NP02 which is a brilliant piece of kit for the money,something of a bargain in my opinion, a name for your Moderator, Phantom !!
I have a walther rotex. I love it. Accurate as something twice as dear. Bit heavy. Not as sexy as a wildcat or daystate. But I won't be changing it soon.
On the subject of pricing, there are people who will spend on the higher priced kit but like me find it difficult to contact dealers. Some don't bother to update there Webb sites, answer emails or pick up the phone.
Customers are like fish if you don't catch them you won't keep them.
Bought a new Gamo kit when I got back into air guns, but then after a few months I wanted a hw100 and when down the second hand route and picked up a nice hw100kt laminate. Now I want a S410 TDR and a hw44 and they will both be second hand ones.
I have a daystate harrier. 22 single shot which is still my favourite rifle thanks ian .
Great show, these breaks are nearly as long as Brexit.
I have a BSA Superstar made by Theoben with the adjustable ram. Apparently the BSA Superstar was meant to be a mass produced gas ram rifle & the work was done by Theoben. BSA went bust & when GAMO bought them the Superstar continue into production as a springer. All adjustable rammed Superstars were actually converted with the appropriate parts & fitted with a slimline silencer by Theoben. Only 150 were made.
Great info Matt. Thanks for sharing.
Couple of beers joke about silencer / moderator names.
How about the "What" or the "Pardon", cos you didn't hear it. But remember you heard it here first.
Enjoying your vids. Good info and in my opinion you work really well together. Cheers.
I'd like to hear from Tony what's happened to all the Sterling Armaments designs that he had me so excited about earlier this year. It really looked like we were seeing the emergence of a proper UK made rifle rather than just the assembly of foreign made parts.
Call the silencer "Husband". Never allowed to be heard.
How about Isol8 for the name of the silencer
Silence is golden. The smaller ones silver.
Event Horizon. "Sound enters but can not leave".
"Mr Shhhh..." for the silencer name, cribbing from the name of the Assassin played by Steve Buscemi in the film "Things to do in Denver when you're dead". >:o)
The 10% increase AA & HW might well be catching up with materials etc, but Air Arms won't sell action-only, so in order to get my S510 XS in a GRS stock (thanks Lloyd & BAR) -I now have an unused S500/S400-series Walnut stock for sale. :o/
An HW100 is $2300+ here (Aus), which in a direct conversion is 1300 quid. 800 sounds like a dream to me! Edit: And I can't have silencers! Waaaahhhh!
We will never complain again James !
You blokes are English, don't make promises you can't keep. ;)
@@jameshealy4594 We OWN the Ashes, I promise!
At least u still can buy an air gun..
Lovely to see an airsporter on the vid at last, nice to know I can get a good model for about 300 so will be looking in from time to time Lloyd. Didn't the Omega launch coinside with air arms range of spring guns or have I lost a decade or two, seem to remember the air arms side levers all over the place (jackal's) and a lot of interest with them ? anyway a good watch guys and will look forward to the next one. atb Phil
I have a mk1 Airsporter in near mint condition having a maximum of 1000 pellets fired,had it for about 42 years and it belonged to a neighbours son who bought it brand new a week before dying in a motorcycle accident . It was unused in the original box complete with tube of pellets a bottle of oil and a target holder and targets...stupidly they where thrown away !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .Would happily sell it to the right person who would cherish and ultimately pass on this British gun maker heirloom .
"The Void" sound may enter but never leave! And yes I have nothing much better to do this morning 👍🏻😂🤣
Bought my HW95 from these guy's Jan2019, best break barrel you can get.
The webley omega safety catch was just a variant of the fwb sport and the original 45 safety mechs which both could be reset so the omega wasn't new I've worked on that gasram omega of Mr Jones its a nice gun shame webley never put it into production.
name for the silencer Shhissput
Not sure how true it was, but I'd heard Theoben wanted the gasram idea to be available to more shooters, so were courting other manufacturers to design around it. The rumour was the BSA Superstar/Goldstar and Supersport were all designed with in mind, and some early examples had very smooth piston inner surface as the ram was to seal on the piston. Ironic really, I had an Airsporter and a Theoben Sirocco (before the Superstar was unveiled), and the BSA was the better rabbit rifle as a tuned springer is quieter than a gasram.
I feel for you Loyd,my self and my brother have been selling air rifles for over 40 years,now retired,i was finding It
hard the last year ,but luckily for me coincided with reirement.Tony my way Belas was never a shining star in my network of suppliers.Will leave it there.good luck for the future !
how about Titanus
What about the "carbon void" for the silencer name.
Loved my webley & scott omega chose it rather than the hw80. Shot fantastic never trapped finger in barrel lock . Used it hunting it's well weathered need that one
I was chatting to you about this in the shop a couple of weeks ago and as I said I would rather pay a bit extra for a gun that had not been cheapened by inferior parts and materials. Not necessarily 10% but enough to cover their suppliers rises. To be fair I’ve never spent big on air rifles until the 510 ultimate sporter that I really wanted. Also there are always cheaper brands as the walther rm8 etc which are very good rifles, and 2nd hand too
It seems to me in the industry today the more you pay the better the gun
I own a Gamo Coyote and I brought that on a deal gun, sights, bag, gun lock and cap for £399 and at my club I can out shoot guys who have guns 4 times the amount of mine
We had a target out at 75 yards I zeroed mine then hit it and a guy futher down the line said who hit that now his gun was full to the brim of bells and whistles and I said it was me and laughing turning to his mates and said beginners luck even though I've had air guns since I was 14 so bang bang bang bang bang five times in a row I turned to him and said wow that beginners luck is awesome
As always great video guys. As for the silencer name if it does really defeat noise how about Vanquish?
Also, can you ask “Stomper”? If he would think about doing an attachment to the cocking lever for the hk100kt please? Mine atm is a plastic/rubber and looks ok, but a skull on the end would look AWESOME!!!!
He's not making any more at the moment unfortunately but when he does I will ask him.
Good show...my name for the silencer would be "hawk or owl" silent in attack mode..
How about dark star or black star for the name of the silencer!!
I have a Theoben Sirocco and the trigger is a Webley Omega i believe so maybe there was a relationship there
Early ones used Webley barrels too :)
I have had trouble with my omega trigger . I feel it was due to the piston outer dia being undersized , to fix the problem I put plastic buttons into the piston . the piston know glides better and the trigger works . before I fixed the problem with the trigger to get the trigger to engage you would have to pull the last bit when cocking the rifle very aggressively this would not always work . I was wondering if you had a problem like this . theobens quality control is very good so I would thing not .
tried the silencers at MADAIR and they are outstanding
Silencer name hubble, i know the superstar had the theoben set up in it which could be had upto 20ftlb in fac trim. It was the same set up with the screw in pump fitting. Theoben where making these for bsa also some protype omega's also had the adjustable set up as well. I shot both of these guns.
I think they are getting a bit over the top price wise as well, im also still of the opinion that there is still a case of Rip of Britain going on. I have been looking at the Sig m17 CO2 pistol UK price £199 seen it for £189, or in the US $139 full price but found for $95.99 at Airgun Depot. now thats some difference. PS LOVE THIS SHOW
Careless whisper silencer music too my ears
I have an old BSA Airsporter that has been neglected due to storage in garage. I live not far from London. Where can I take it to sell it and how much could it be worth. I think it was made in the 50s.
Hello there, I’d jump straight onto Google and find your local RFD’s I’m sure they’ll be happy to help
@@hotair4269 Thank you very much indeed, I will try that. I bought the rifle about 40 years ago, in good condition. It was in a tatty bag and I put it in the garage away from the kids and forgot about it. When I brought it in the house, I could see the bluing was in a poor state. Not sure, but could be 1953 or 1958. I seem to remember checking the date, but not 100% sure what date it was. Once again, I thank you.
How about calling them the pellet whisperer?
Here's one for Loyds space theme
Cosmic Void
I don't think guns are that expensive when you think of the quality we get today. When i was younger i used to destroy guns at least once a month buy over cocking them. Now they last 5 years before they need servicing but then a rifle is half price, you can pay the same again on scope bipod other accessories.
Liquid carbon wife muffler for silencer name
Just applied for a FAC and purchased a cz 22 rimfire that cost £560 for a 100ftbl that beats any air arms for £2000
You could say I bought a fullbore rifle for £300 that makes the CZ look like garbage...but luckily it's not just about power.
STOMPER SOUNDS GOOD NAME
DedAir Silencer...... suggestion
Anyone, (Not Me) who has £800 to spend on a gun will find the extra £80 if they want it. Most dealers would chuck in a couple of tins of good pellets (worth £26) as a sweetener anyway. Remember - the shop buy their pellets a lot, lot cheaper at trade prices.
Good vid. Price increase from the 2 big selling "quality" manufacturers can only be a bad thing. Wealthy buyers will bypass them in favour of more exotic guns (arguably now worth the extra) and poorer buyers will buy the cheaper manufacturers guns. Instead of being thought of as "quality" guns, they're in danger of becoming "not worth the money guns" .. Silencer " the Muzzler"
Another great episode guy's :) how about calling the silencer the "sound eclipse" ?
I just got my HM 1000 rapid. In 22 caliber, 1950 US dollars. Made 100% in USA, 3 years saving money for this rifle. Too much money 💵😬
yes airguns are getting way too expensive. good luck with that.
The Simon & Garfunkel (the S & G) ' The sound of silence! ' ;-)
New to air gunning comment, why is the current market limited, mainly, to PCP and springers? I've just bought a 2nd hand Walther LGR SSP (Single Stroke Pneumatic) target air rifle, which easily equals PCP's for accuracy and is far better for developing my shooting skills. So why are this type of air rifle not made any more?
So glad ive already got my dream 3 rifles a tx an 80k and a 99s ones custom tuned totally luke jolly trigger the lot and thats the 80k if i got another rifle it would be an artimis m16d from smk but i do want the hw44 or a artimis pcp pistol apart from that im one of them airgunners that's totally happy with there collectionl..im lucky too coz my 80k came with a hw silencer standard considering how tuned it is i still use it its better than my hugget
Does the Umarex Gauntlet sell in the UK?
Pound to dollar has been floating around 1.30 for yonks. Parity? Really?
And the pound to Euro has been about 1.15 for while a now with 'cent sized' fluctuations. If we were on the Euro we have 10% less buying power.
Perhaps oil? Perhaps with the US market airgun reaching maturity, growing popularity in Europe, and growing sophistication the top end of the market is just settling. How much do the top end shooters pay for their custom jobs and work back perhaps?
EDIT: I am busy and had to stop the video before listening and then made my comment. Sorry if I just echoed what I said.
the market is broadening with newcoming manufacturers and new prices. there is a lot to choose from with evident prices and different quality. the midrange is getting better you get more bang for your buck. when i look at Kral and see you can buy a pcp with barrel exchange system and two barrels and 4 magazines for the price of 750euro's (netherlands) it's hard to walk by and look for a FX because these are at least double the price!! (quality wise better but are they 2 times better?? have to find out) this gun is called the: Nemesis and is a semi bullpup. (www.krale.com)
names for the silencers: the big one= Big Wave; the small one = Tiny Wave; the drop in= Droplet; the leshey= Lesser Leshey
great show as always!! thanks guys
sbd got to be a good name for a silencer
Imo I think the prices are getting out of hand but for manufacturers like smk (artemis) kral, cometa etc it's only good news for them as more people will look to them as they are half the price of others
Peter Gore Seer,
Well Second Hand Is Always Best, But Its Up To The Purchasers.
How about Husssh for the silencer? Or Stealth/Stelth (there's a fashion for spelling product names wrongly), Whisperer/Wisperer, Soft Pedal.
I wish all airgun shops had owners like this. Many times i wondered why i spent my money in them, for all the attention i recieved. You just wander around looking through the glass display cabinet, and left to get on with it. Any enquiries by e/mail gets a short response with no follow up. Perhaps they make so much money they dont have to worry. If they had real competion on the web that enabled us to buy without the gunshops ripping us off with their fees for accepting via the post. Perhaps its just me but i have found many of them a miserable lot
It's a story I have sadly heard too many times :(
Or the quantum whisperer.
HW75 Pistol Brilliant
"SPACE" there's nothing quiter.
I think the UK manufacturers are pushing it a bit! rimfires are far better value for money? BUT< the hassle of fac's etc.
In the USA Diana have made it very obvious to that market that the new lower end affordable range are sourced from the far east but with better quality control and some go through the factory for additional modding before being given a new model name and shipping out.we can all recognise their heritage.
The more expensive range is German made and of higher quality. ?
I have a SMK208 Diana 34 copy,new £99.95, its pretty good too,nice finish good trigger and well put together, a good fun shooter not as accurate as my little HW30S but i can spend a couple of hours on the range just shooting groups,very relaxing. I can see why Diana would want to rename and fettle some of these products for the entry level range.
Perhaps the UK manufacturers are thinking along those lines?or just sell up market products as long as the market place can stand the prices,then collapse and blame it all on cheap labour?having neglected the lower end price point of the market?Already there is no British break barrel made.
The history of the British motor cycle industry repeated?
My AAS400F is now 6yrs old and mint , a first class product of British manufacturing and long may it keep going! cant afford to replace it !
I sometimes compare the prices with .22lr rifles. My R10 at what £800-ish is twice as much as a CZ455. The thing is the latter is produced in huge quantities compared to the former. But saying that the former technology wise is much more complicated. The R10 is mid-range I think compared to your Daystates and above the badge engineered Turkish brands. But I am getting a lot of value for it I think compared to an out of the box CZ. I haven't touched the trigger for example, it is what I call a 'think and shoot' trigger; to get a Timney trigger for a 455 would be another £100. Where you do see variation is when the rimfire builders sell say a limited edition laminate stock. CZ are selling a 455 with a black and yellow stock and anodised metal for about £800. I think Deben are being a bit greedy. And I think Hull Carts are taking advantage over Brexit.
Silencer should be called "the Void"
Silencer, Serene.