TIMESTAMPS BELOW! Get 20% Off Any Frictitious Hangboard with a Doorway Mount (No promo code, drill or complicated setup needed) ▶ frictitiousclimbing.com/collections/all 00:00 Intro and what to expect // SECTION 1: Why? // 01:21 Why boulderers should care 02:36 Why not just train strength instead? //SECTION 2: Endurance Training Options // 03:16 Overview of Training Options 04:08 BOULDERING: Continuous ("circuiting") 05:03 Circuits Pros and Cons 05:33 BOULDERING: Intermittent 06:40 Which is the better on-wall method: continuous or intermittent? 07:03 Why choose on-wall vs off-wall? 07:29 HANGBOARD: Overview 08:38 HANGBOARD: Continuous (Not Recommended) 08:53 HANGBOARD: Intermittent ("Repeaters") 09:53 When is a set of repeaters complete? 11:04 CAMPUS BOARD: Continuous and Intermittent 12:18 How do I modify the intensity on a campus board? 12:52 ROPE CLIMBING: Overview 13:45 ROPE CLIMBING: Continuous and Intermittent 14:25 Which is better for endurance: top rope or lead? 15:01 How many laps should I do for top rope sets? 15:49 BONUS! TINDEQ PROGRESSOR: Critical Force Protocol // SECTION 3: Programming recommendations // 16:45 So... which method should I choose? 17:40 Why no talk of energy systems? 19:35 How long should endurance sets be in general? 20:10 How intense should endurance sets be? 21:00 How many endurance sets per training session? 21:47 How much rest should I take? 23:02 When in my session do I do endurance training? 23:58 How many times a week should I train endurance? // SECTION 4: Final tips and tricks // 24:42 Pick the right climbs 25:09 Head to the overhang 25:33 Get back on if you make a mistake 25:53 Key to long-term progress...
Ask frictitious to set up better options to buy from scandinavia please. Added tax and shipping in the cart adds over 70% to the total price, think a lot of us can't afford 170% but 100% would have been doable.
A good sister video to this would be how to recover on the wall. I often find spots on sports climbs that I try to stop and shake out, but It's not quite "restful" enough so I'm not sure that I'm actually recovering.
This is some of the best endurance training advice I have ever heard, I'm actually psyched to go apply some of these protocols in my sessions, thanks so much for this!
Awesome breakdown! Truly my favorite channel for training content. One way endurance training has benefitted me personally, is it reduced my risk of injury while improving both my lead and boulder performance. After a grave injury (full rupture of the distal bicep tendon), I had to start from scratch, and I chose a 50/50 ratio of lead/top-rope to bouldering. One year later, I've noticed that I've gotten stronger at both roped climbing and bouldering compared to before the injury, and I've gotten rid of all the minor tweaks and injuries that plagued me back when I was a boulderer almost exclusively.
Thank you for the kind words and for sharing your experience! That's awesome that the 50/50 combination worked well for you. I wonder if not having every session be a high intensity (bouldering) session and rather shifted focused to a moderate intensity yet high volume (ropes) combination is what helped improve your overall recovery? Regardless, glad it worked for you!
@@HoopersBeta Thanks for the reply! Yeah, I think it's exactly like you describe. It's also worth considering that I'm a slightly older climber too (31). While I think, one can be a boulderer exclusively at any age (provided good programming), I've always found it hard to hit the right intensity in different types of bouldering sessions. Replacing the lower intensity, more endurance-focused bouldering sessions with roped climbing has worked like a charm for me.
Top content. Can't ask for more than principle based and research backed advice with varied examples to suit almost any training setup. Plus the bonus of Hooper flailing and Anna as graceful as ever. Thanks heaps
What role, if any, do you think low-end aerobic conditioning plays for a boulderer, such as ARCing or 1 on 1 off. My understanding is that capillarization is the best way to improve critical force, no? Thanks for the fun watch team!
Capillarization is important to deliver more oxigen and nutrients to the muscle but for boulderers I would say the main effect is to remove metabolites produced through the anaerobic system; that means as a Boulderer you still rely on anaerobic metabolism for most of the time, this endurance training works mainly on the anaerobic lactacid system, whereas low intensity training would work on the aerobic system (that can be trained effectively even through these anaerobic stimuli). That means if you train for long rock climbing routes maybe it would make sense to add low intensity aerobic training but as a boulderer I would be more specific to my energy demands.
I like the off the wall options. 4x4 get boring quickly and like traversing or doing circuits in a busy gym it's annoying for others, or I can't stick to the rest times. Also our lead gym is usually quite busy. So just repeating the same route over and over again is not practical.
Yeah I think having many options is quite useful otherwise it's just "welp I can't do this or that so.... never train endurance!" This way, there is no excuse :) hah.
I love your videos! I'm not new to training and usually know all the possible interventions you are presenting but the way you point out why which option is good for what is just point on! It really helps me to see through all the possibilities and get's me psyched for training! Great content ❤
Ever thought about doing a video critiquing/ looking at viewers training routines? Seeing what they do well/ how it matches up with their routine? Same with looking at their weaknesses and what they could potentially change? (“I volunteer” - Katniss Everdeen)
Super useful and clear cut video! I am wondering if you could briefly explain how (as a boulderer with longer trad route ambitions) I can extend this for my goals? I have seen conflicting advice in both (generic) versions of: 'trad climbers should boulder because harder trad routes are punchy with rests', and 'trad climbers should do long, super easy endurance and rest on every hold mimicking gear placement'. I am guessing the answer is a mix of both, or perhaps something between both (like the PE training in this video). Thanks!
I would lean more into a specific goal or climb, if you have one in mind. If you are focusing on longer (but easier) trad routes where you don't feel like you will need to stress out your anaerobic energy systems (no try hard or cruxy sequences), then extending this to longer 'on-the-wall' sessions would be appropriate. But, if you have a climb in mind that has a few sections that are quite taxing and sustained and will activate more of an anaerobic energy response, training in the 30-120 seconds range is still applicable and would help in that section.
Love your channel. Just a note about using lead for endurance training. Clipping stops your forward momentum but doesn't mean it is a break. Clipping can be challenging and can pump you up faster than climbing. Just a thought.
Great video! Would be nice to hear how to fit endurance training during your training phases? How long do ones need to apply it and when to switch focus to some other areas?
That's actually sort of the "on season" in Southern California / general desert areas of the country where it's finally cool enough to climb. But yes, in the snowy (and frozen) areas of the country that does force the indoor climbing season.
It's pretty common in the States as far as I've seen, I'm not crazy about them but they introduce a lot more friction in the system allowing partners with large weight differences to maintain easy control over the rope. It can make lowering my kids off the wall super slow though 😂
Hi, interesting video! I was wondering how these endurance sessions would affect rest days. Usually I climb 4x a week which makes it so that I sometimes climb 2 days in a row, would an endurance session prompt an extra rest day? Or is it wiser to only do endurance sessions on days I have a rest day after?
If you're strictly adding this on to the end of a session without cutting anything else out, you're adding to the total volume and as such increasing your total work, so you may need additional rest/recovery. But if you're already way under your total work capacity, adding a couple of sets on may not be the worst. Still, in your scenario I would say just try adding it in twice a week, always on a session where you will have a rest day the next day.
Thanks for the great content. One question left about the hangboard repeater: How many sets am i looking for? When i fall after 10 hangs , how long to rest and how often repeat this?
While hangboarding is mentioned as an off the wall option, I'd be curious on any additional thoughts for off the wall training, e.g. using a pinch block, Lattice's heavy roller or any finger/hand/forearm training device for common hangboard protocols. I have started experimenting with doing Lattice's 30-40% of Max workouts for repeaters with a variety of equipment, e.g. 2x hangs, 2x pinch block, 1x heavy roller and while I can't really speak to the result, I feel like it is a stimuli that is closer to real climbing, as it incorporates more muscle/tissue than just using a hangboard. I'd think that it'd generally make the session more aerobic as the fatigue is more spread and that you'd be able to do more sets for the same reason.
If I mix in endurance training with hard bouldering, won’t it interfere with potential strength gains and adaptation? I read somewhere that training strength and endurance should be done separately for optimal results
You’re probably referring to the “interference effect?” No, you very likely don’t need to worry about any sort of interference effect when it comes to adding this type of endurance training to your routine, unless you don’t program things well and constantly exceed your recovery capacity or you put yourself in a calorie deficit or something like that. But other than those kinds of problems, well-programmed endurance training won’t inhibit strength gains. -Emile
Would be interesting to hear if these timeframes of 30-120 seconds will still apply to the durations needed to have "endurance" as a sport climber where sometimes you may be on the wall up to 10-15 minutes or longer at a time
The idea of endurance training being "to failure" has me confused. I thought that it was generally discouraged to do a lot of training of the lactic system - that you should primarily focus on the aerobic and anaerobic (alactic) systems, except when ramping up for a specific goal. What do I have wrong? Edit: I commented too soon, you discuss this at the 18ish minute mark. Interesting that no studies exist, would be cool for a physio lab to look into this!
I'm planning a roped phase soon, and just by the way my schedule works I'm probs gonna do repeaters 2x a week and 4x4 once a week. It'll be interesting to see if the gains carry over much, given the specificity of PE gains
Thanks for the great overview. However im concerned about the main point i learned from this channel: to value focus and simplicity and therefore avoid too many different stimuli and exercises. Surely i love a good sufferfest, but don´t I have to worry about interference effects, overuse injuries or ineffiecently long recovery periods which might be needed for additional endurance training in the end of a session? As for now i´ve been afraid of all of this and tried to cover up my lacking endurance with an even quicker bouldering style.
Interference effect is a mostly disproven hypothesis. Yes you will have a greater recovery load, but introducing this over time will also improve your ability to recover a greater volume. It's worth ramping up gradually to begin with, but eventually the goal is to simply have more capacity to train.
Wow, such a comprehensive yet clear and enjoyable video on the topic! Makes you psyched to go try some of those protocols. Keep it up! One question though: if you're doing an endurance protocol on a hangboard (or no hang, if that's ok?) what would be a good estimate of the weight to use compared to your max hang? Say I hang 100kg on a max protocol, how much weight would be a good guess for an endurance protocol? Thanks!
Great video! I don't have a fingerboard at home, not time to go to the gym more than 1 or 2 times a week, unfortunately. Do wrist curls help at all? I get a similar pump feeling, but I don't know if that necessarily means they help with bouldering endurance.
Wrist curls would target the wrist flexors more and not the two primary finger flexors (flexor digitorum profundus and superficialis) so no I wouldn't say that would directly replace this training. That doesn't mean it's not useful, strength and endurance in the wrist flexors is fine. It just won't actually replace the specific finger endurance you may be after.
in my opinion auto-belays are great for indurance training, the only thing that is sort of unclear and personal is the grades / level of difficulty that works best. Surely it is relative to one's redpoint yet how much down should one go?
To a grade where you get pumped and your forearms fail between 30-120 seconds. I mean telling you how many grades lower is never going to be as specific as that guideline.
If you're still able to achieve the fatigue in the forearms that we/you desire then that should be fine? In the footage of us using the Tindeq, I'm using a Fricticious Port-a-board which is similar in function to the tension block.
I am a bit confused and would appreciate some thoughts on this: I’ve read strong recommendations about avoiding training to failure particularly for non-hypertrophy training. On the other hand, endurance training seem to suggest, and the video mentions this too, the need to training to failure. What is the missing part in between these two advice which would otherwise seem contradictory?
Best place to start would be to clarify what type of training you’ve been told to avoid doing to failure. Are you talking about strength training? Climbing? Running? Any type of physical activity? Often for strength training we like to avoid going to failure simply because it’s not needed to achieve strength gains and it adds a disproportionate amount of fatigue which then prevents us from recovering as quickly, thus prolonging the time we need to wait until the next training session, thus reducing the total number of training sessions we can do in a given amount of time, thus reducing our total strength gains during that timeframe. For the type of endurance training in this video, however, there does appear to be some utility (or even necessity) in training to failure (or close to it) in order to achieve the stimulus we want. This is mostly based on practitioner experience (aka Dan’s professional climbing and coaching career), as there is little to no research that can be *appropriately* applied here (though that doesn’t stop many from trying). Hope that helps! -Emile
@@HoopersBeta Thank you for answering so quickly! I've failed to clarify that my question is not meant to debate the advice, but rather to help me understand it in the bigger context of training principles. Indeed, the first reference to avoid training to failure is in the context of max strength training. The summary I read could be possibly extended to other types of training but that might not be the case. thanks again, Alex
Theoretically it should be fine, but listen to your body and make sure you don’t overdo it. I’d start with just a couple sets and see how you handle it.
When you do the campus board method, is a set considered climbing for roughly 30-120 seconds to failure, or is a "set" where you repeat that a few times with 30-90 seconds rest in between, and then take a longer pause of 10 minutes between those?
No matter which endurance training method you’re doing, one set = approximately 30-120 seconds of effort (reaching failure or near-failure). Then get a good long rest (around 10 minutes if possible) between sets.
It depends on what you’re trying to accomplish. There’s no need to stop training endurance after six weeks unless you have some other training goals you want to prioritize. If you don’t have a good reason to stop doing endurance training, then why stop? 😄
I'd love to hear tour take on Dave MacLeod endurance training, sets pf 40 minute very low intensity climbing comparable to a level 1 run aerea training. Really interesting approach but somehow very different to the setting described here
The focus with this training being applicable to all, but more geared towards boulderers, may be the specific difference. If your goal is long, sustained climbing days on multi-pitch or just very long routes then having good aerobic capacity certainly helps. But having good anaerobic capacity for sustained sections is not only useful for boulderers, but also sport climbers moving their challenging or more intense sequences.
My gym actually has circuit boards with preset curcuits that even get reset once very blue moon. If I push these to failure, that usually means I'm too fatigued to do the next move and pop off trying to do it. However, there's also certain curcuits, especially when hopping back on with minimal rest, where my forearms get at least 50% bigger and get so pumped that they sort of lock up and are just toast for the next 10+ minutes. Which one am I going for? The latter would mean I'd have to do that towards the end of a session, since I usually don't recover well enough from this to do any useful climbing for the next half an hour or longer.
Either way you should be doing these at the end of the session, otherwise it would compromise your ability to project or work on skill acquisition. It sounds like both are getting you pumped, but one circuit more than the other? I suppose the simple answer would be: perform both for fun and variety, or perform whichever circuit gets you the desired level of fatigue within the timeframe that would be most useful for bouldering (30-120 seconds) while keeping you safe (best holds for you / your ability level). - Jason
The bigger question really is “what are you training for”? If you have a specific answer to that, then that should inform your choice between a circuits. If you don’t, then do whichever you prefer, or alternate for variety!
hey i know youve got a video on leg excercises, but i have a suggestion for a video idea, explosive leg power! as i find im lacking the explosive power in my legs for some dyno's. (i am able to do about 3 pistol squats in a row but i just cant seem to jump high enough)
Nice! Sounds like you have good strength and through a full range of motion. I wonder, how high can you jump on flat ground with two legs and/or one? Sometimes it's not just how high you can jump, it's how you execute the jump on the wall. We've reviewed this in a couple episodes of Anatomy of the Climb, but hip positioning and how you move into or away from the wall makes a big difference. Your best starting point might be to either record yourself attempting the dyno and compare that to the anatomy of the climb episode advice, or just testing your basic jumping ability.
thanks for responding, i tested my vert (using my arms for momentum and slapping my hand against the wall) and it seems to be about 55cm at my best (a lot of attempts are 10cm worse) for 2 feet, and about half of that for either single left or single right. I for sure have alot of technique to improve on, but i wonder how these numbers add up@@HoopersBeta
What about low end aerobic training AVOIDING the pump as a way to support the anerobic system? This is what Steve Bechtel talks about as that is the system least trainable. Then spin up the high end anerobic system when needed. But maybe that is more relevent for sport climbers? 🤔 Also suprised interference effect was not mensioned if throwing endurance in at the end of a boulder session and especially if also squeezing in some strength work in between endurance sets! Sounds like a good way to get bo!*xed!
I still want to do more research, personally, but recently it's become more apparent that the interference effect was somewhat majorly overblown. A lot of the over-hype was related to a research paper where the individuals who were suffering from the potential interference effect simply weren't getting enough calories to combat the increased training they were performing. So it made it like very legit, despite an obvious flaw.
@@HoopersBeta ah OK. Interesting. I guess if you have the energy then anythings possible - in theory! And what are your thoughts currently on that point on low end aerobic training to increase the amount you can climb in the aerobic zone BEFORE getting pumped? I've been doing 5mins on / 5 mins off x 4 going round and round on my fingerboard to try and simulate an aerobic threshold type 4 x 4 on routes (yes its quite dull! 😂). And doing so maintaining, where possible, nassal briething and not getting too pumped. From my reading / pod cast listens various this sounds like a good way to get aerobic foream endurance and can be done when in a strength fase. Now you're throwing puppy endurance training back at me know and I'm wondering whare best to spend my time! 🤯😃 Yours inquisitive armature training enthusiast! 😃
Thank you so much for not talking about energy systems. There is so much pseudoscience. It’s refreshing to see a more evidence-based approach: silence 🎉
How should I properly shave my calluses on my hands? Should I just use sandpaper? Should I use something like nail clippers to cut at it? And when should I shave it?
Arc training, with its longer duration, shifts the focus towards the aerobic energy system. This is fine if that's your focus but may not cause the adaptations we are looking for in the anaerobic systems, which is important for those sustained challenging sections of routes.
Thanks, very helpful!! However: soreness. My challenge is that getting really pumped /climb till failure (especially if several times in a session) makes my forearms sore the next day, at worst 2-4 days after the session. Being sore prevents from training effectively. I've bouldered for about 7 years, still have this problem. Tho, I've never really seriously tried training my endurance, so it might change over time if I started doing this 2-3 a week... Doing mild forearm stretching post session helps a bit. My nutrition intake is fine, and get enough sleep. Anyone else have this problem? Tips? Thanks!!
It might be important to make note of the potential difference between endurance training failure, and pure climbing til failure. In both scenarios, you're still adding to your total work, and as such you may need more recovery time. But, since endurance training, especially that which Dan lays out, is 2-3 sets of 30-120 seconds and on somewhat larger holds, the intensity may be slightly lower from a pure muscle recruitment/force production standard, meaning the total work is different for endurance training than pure climbing til failure. But, regardless, yes, any time you are adding to your training, you need to make adjustments either by 1) increasing your recovery time or 2) modifying/cutting something else out. Taking 2-3 hard attempts off of your total session could be the cut you need to add in a bit of endurance.
Thank you so much for this answer, it makes total sense. And still, I never really had thought about it - that the quality of failures could give different outcomes. Now that I think of it, the worst forearm soreness (recovery taking like half a week) always comes from those very desperate attempts on my very limit grades, especially at crag when you just don't want to leave without success. While being exhausted after a balanced intense training never gives as bad soreness, even if the session gave some serious pumps. I'll adjust my training as adding these endurance workouts. Super helpful, thank you very much, your channel is Pure Gold. @@HoopersBeta
Depends on your objectives. If you’re predominantly, or exclusively, a boulderer, it may not be a great use of your time. As a rope climber, it’s plausible that it’s building a helpful base, but it does seem that in a lot of circumstances, on the wall time beyond ~10 min starts to have less clear carryover.
Something I've often heard is that "I am a boulderer unga bunga, I want strength and explosivity and thus I don't want slow twitch fiber adaptations to compete with fast twitch ones"; perhaps, especially as one grows older and it gets harder to make strength gains. Do you think there's any truth at all to this? Is it really a zero-sum game?
Short answer is that no, it’s not something you need to worry about. Medium answer is that fiber type transitions (slow to fast and fast to slow) have never been demonstrated in humans, and practically don’t seem to happen. Fiber types in detail are a lot more complicated than that, but the point in general stands. Interference effects haven’t really been demonstrated in upper body movements, and interference effects as a phenomenon in general have begun to look a lot less significant than previously thought. (Some interesting details re interference, but way too long for a UA-cam comment)
Certain movement patterns and muscles would probably best be trained in a specific range on the adaptation spectrum, depending on the desired goal. Still, there are often combinations of seemingly opposite adaptations in many athletic fields. Just look at any sport: basketball, football, mma, etc.. Also, in IFSC they usually get 5 minutes of performing a boulder problem. If you don't flash it first try, you're in trouble unless you have some recovery capacity and endurance.
So the endurance here corresponds to what is (normally?) referred to as power endurance. The (aerobic?) endurance is not mention here. Is it because that you think it is not as important, or just because this is mainly a bouldering channel so (aerobic) endurance is not as relevant?
Yes, this training does favor boulderers, but it has carry over for rope climbers as well. Specifically during sustained/challenging sections or single pitch attempts.
TIMESTAMPS BELOW!
Get 20% Off Any Frictitious Hangboard with a Doorway Mount (No promo code, drill or complicated setup needed) ▶ frictitiousclimbing.com/collections/all
00:00 Intro and what to expect
// SECTION 1: Why? //
01:21 Why boulderers should care
02:36 Why not just train strength instead?
//SECTION 2: Endurance Training Options //
03:16 Overview of Training Options
04:08 BOULDERING: Continuous ("circuiting")
05:03 Circuits Pros and Cons
05:33 BOULDERING: Intermittent
06:40 Which is the better on-wall method: continuous or intermittent?
07:03 Why choose on-wall vs off-wall?
07:29 HANGBOARD: Overview
08:38 HANGBOARD: Continuous (Not Recommended)
08:53 HANGBOARD: Intermittent ("Repeaters")
09:53 When is a set of repeaters complete?
11:04 CAMPUS BOARD: Continuous and Intermittent
12:18 How do I modify the intensity on a campus board?
12:52 ROPE CLIMBING: Overview
13:45 ROPE CLIMBING: Continuous and Intermittent
14:25 Which is better for endurance: top rope or lead?
15:01 How many laps should I do for top rope sets?
15:49 BONUS! TINDEQ PROGRESSOR: Critical Force Protocol
// SECTION 3: Programming recommendations //
16:45 So... which method should I choose?
17:40 Why no talk of energy systems?
19:35 How long should endurance sets be in general?
20:10 How intense should endurance sets be?
21:00 How many endurance sets per training session?
21:47 How much rest should I take?
23:02 When in my session do I do endurance training?
23:58 How many times a week should I train endurance?
// SECTION 4: Final tips and tricks //
24:42 Pick the right climbs
25:09 Head to the overhang
25:33 Get back on if you make a mistake
25:53 Key to long-term progress...
Ask frictitious to set up better options to buy from scandinavia please. Added tax and shipping in the cart adds over 70% to the total price, think a lot of us can't afford 170% but 100% would have been doable.
A good sister video to this would be how to recover on the wall. I often find spots on sports climbs that I try to stop and shake out, but It's not quite "restful" enough so I'm not sure that I'm actually recovering.
Yes please!
Thanks for the idea!
We’ll add it to the list!
Restful😂 are you swe
"do until you reach desired level of fatigue" is such a climbing sentence. We just love suffering, don't we.
Type II Fun Fans
Couldn't this be said about literally any workout..?
Hell yeah scraps, cuts, falls, sandpaper waterslides (lead slab). We can't get enough lmao
yes bro, we sure do 😂
This is some of the best endurance training advice I have ever heard, I'm actually psyched to go apply some of these protocols in my sessions, thanks so much for this!
Thank you for the feedback and kind words! We love your psyche! Have fun with the new training.
Awesome breakdown! Truly my favorite channel for training content. One way endurance training has benefitted me personally, is it reduced my risk of injury while improving both my lead and boulder performance. After a grave injury (full rupture of the distal bicep tendon), I had to start from scratch, and I chose a 50/50 ratio of lead/top-rope to bouldering. One year later, I've noticed that I've gotten stronger at both roped climbing and bouldering compared to before the injury, and I've gotten rid of all the minor tweaks and injuries that plagued me back when I was a boulderer almost exclusively.
Thank you for the kind words and for sharing your experience! That's awesome that the 50/50 combination worked well for you. I wonder if not having every session be a high intensity (bouldering) session and rather shifted focused to a moderate intensity yet high volume (ropes) combination is what helped improve your overall recovery? Regardless, glad it worked for you!
@@HoopersBeta Thanks for the reply! Yeah, I think it's exactly like you describe. It's also worth considering that I'm a slightly older climber too (31). While I think, one can be a boulderer exclusively at any age (provided good programming), I've always found it hard to hit the right intensity in different types of bouldering sessions. Replacing the lower intensity, more endurance-focused bouldering sessions with roped climbing has worked like a charm for me.
This sounds like exciting news for a injured and very "tweaky" 41 year old boulderer (only). Thx for sharing your story!
Anna's lookin RIPPED in that open back!
Top content. Can't ask for more than principle based and research backed advice with varied examples to suit almost any training setup. Plus the bonus of Hooper flailing and Anna as graceful as ever. Thanks heaps
baited me with rope climbing teasers into getting educated. well played
Misdirection at it's finest ;) hah
how dare you educate us
Best endurance training video I've seen! Thank you!
A perfect reminder to start my once every other week token endurance training sessions.
hah :) enjoy!
What role, if any, do you think low-end aerobic conditioning plays for a boulderer, such as ARCing or 1 on 1 off. My understanding is that capillarization is the best way to improve critical force, no? Thanks for the fun watch team!
Same here. A feed-back on that would be nice!
Capillarization is important to deliver more oxigen and nutrients to the muscle but for boulderers I would say the main effect is to remove metabolites produced through the anaerobic system; that means as a Boulderer you still rely on anaerobic metabolism for most of the time, this endurance training works mainly on the anaerobic lactacid system, whereas low intensity training would work on the aerobic system (that can be trained effectively even through these anaerobic stimuli). That means if you train for long rock climbing routes maybe it would make sense to add low intensity aerobic training but as a boulderer I would be more specific to my energy demands.
I like the off the wall options. 4x4 get boring quickly and like traversing or doing circuits in a busy gym it's annoying for others, or I can't stick to the rest times.
Also our lead gym is usually quite busy. So just repeating the same route over and over again is not practical.
Yeah I think having many options is quite useful otherwise it's just "welp I can't do this or that so.... never train endurance!" This way, there is no excuse :) hah.
I love your videos! I'm not new to training and usually know all the possible interventions you are presenting but the way you point out why which option is good for what is just point on! It really helps me to see through all the possibilities and get's me psyched for training! Great content ❤
Rope relatable content!
Always love when Anna makes an appearance. Love the Burly Gurly!
Agreed! She made it way more fun.
Ever thought about doing a video critiquing/ looking at viewers training routines? Seeing what they do well/ how it matches up with their routine? Same with looking at their weaknesses and what they could potentially change? (“I volunteer” - Katniss Everdeen)
Super useful and clear cut video! I am wondering if you could briefly explain how (as a boulderer with longer trad route ambitions) I can extend this for my goals?
I have seen conflicting advice in both (generic) versions of: 'trad climbers should boulder because harder trad routes are punchy with rests', and 'trad climbers should do long, super easy endurance and rest on every hold mimicking gear placement'. I am guessing the answer is a mix of both, or perhaps something between both (like the PE training in this video). Thanks!
I would lean more into a specific goal or climb, if you have one in mind. If you are focusing on longer (but easier) trad routes where you don't feel like you will need to stress out your anaerobic energy systems (no try hard or cruxy sequences), then extending this to longer 'on-the-wall' sessions would be appropriate. But, if you have a climb in mind that has a few sections that are quite taxing and sustained and will activate more of an anaerobic energy response, training in the 30-120 seconds range is still applicable and would help in that section.
thanks for making this video. extremely helpful for climbing instructors too. very insightful.
great overview, extremely dense with info but also well condensed and easily implemented. well done!
Thanks for the kind words!
Love your channel. Just a note about using lead for endurance training. Clipping stops your forward momentum but doesn't mean it is a break. Clipping can be challenging and can pump you up faster than climbing. Just a thought.
Nothing more terrifying than reaching the top of a boulder completely pumped
It’s the worst 😩
reaching the top of a lead climb, but cant clip the anchors is the worst.
@@larryseibold4287 Especially when it's Snake Dike
As always, insane video guys. Thank you so much for what you are doing! :)
Thank you for the kind words! Our pleasure :)
Great video! Would be nice to hear how to fit endurance training during your training phases? How long do ones need to apply it and when to switch focus to some other areas?
Love this video!!
Really good breakdown, and great timing as we all commit to the gym grind for the winter off season (right??)
That's actually sort of the "on season" in Southern California / general desert areas of the country where it's finally cool enough to climb. But yes, in the snowy (and frozen) areas of the country that does force the indoor climbing season.
I'm duly envious of cool, dry SoCal Winter temps up here in Montana. @@HoopersBeta
Should “shake-outs” be allowed in any capacity, or is the objective to fight thru the pump?
Great video - what would be the main differences in training endurance for sport climbers?
@15:36 I have never seen that style of top rope attachment. Feels like it should wear down the ropes faster than a chunky steel ring.
It's pretty common in the States as far as I've seen, I'm not crazy about them but they introduce a lot more friction in the system allowing partners with large weight differences to maintain easy control over the rope. It can make lowering my kids off the wall super slow though 😂
thought the same thing. I was taught to avoid rope on rope friction at all costs...
Training endurance across multiple angles really helps as well imo
Hi, interesting video!
I was wondering how these endurance sessions would affect rest days.
Usually I climb 4x a week which makes it so that I sometimes climb 2 days in a row, would an endurance session prompt an extra rest day? Or is it wiser to only do endurance sessions on days I have a rest day after?
If you're strictly adding this on to the end of a session without cutting anything else out, you're adding to the total volume and as such increasing your total work, so you may need additional rest/recovery. But if you're already way under your total work capacity, adding a couple of sets on may not be the worst. Still, in your scenario I would say just try adding it in twice a week, always on a session where you will have a rest day the next day.
Alright, thanks for the advice!@@HoopersBeta
Thanks for the great content. One question left about the hangboard repeater: How many sets am i looking for? When i fall after 10 hangs , how long to rest and how often repeat this?
Rest, number of sets, frequency, etc is discussed in the video (see timestamps)
My favorite takeaway (as a rope climber): boulderers are scared of ropes 😄
Haha I do enjoy rope climbing, though. Especially lead climbing, I just don't do it often enough.
While hangboarding is mentioned as an off the wall option, I'd be curious on any additional thoughts for off the wall training, e.g. using a pinch block, Lattice's heavy roller or any finger/hand/forearm training device for common hangboard protocols.
I have started experimenting with doing Lattice's 30-40% of Max workouts for repeaters with a variety of equipment, e.g. 2x hangs, 2x pinch block, 1x heavy roller and while I can't really speak to the result, I feel like it is a stimuli that is closer to real climbing, as it incorporates more muscle/tissue than just using a hangboard.
I'd think that it'd generally make the session more aerobic as the fatigue is more spread and that you'd be able to do more sets for the same reason.
First clip at my local gym here in Burlington VT! Shout out to petra cliffs lol
Knocking the camera over on the punt was a bonus :) Fun video.
If I mix in endurance training with hard bouldering, won’t it interfere with potential strength gains and adaptation? I read somewhere that training strength and endurance should be done separately for optimal results
You’re probably referring to the “interference effect?” No, you very likely don’t need to worry about any sort of interference effect when it comes to adding this type of endurance training to your routine, unless you don’t program things well and constantly exceed your recovery capacity or you put yourself in a calorie deficit or something like that. But other than those kinds of problems, well-programmed endurance training won’t inhibit strength gains.
-Emile
Would be interesting to hear if these timeframes of 30-120 seconds will still apply to the durations needed to have "endurance" as a sport climber where sometimes you may be on the wall up to 10-15 minutes or longer at a time
The idea of endurance training being "to failure" has me confused. I thought that it was generally discouraged to do a lot of training of the lactic system - that you should primarily focus on the aerobic and anaerobic (alactic) systems, except when ramping up for a specific goal. What do I have wrong? Edit: I commented too soon, you discuss this at the 18ish minute mark. Interesting that no studies exist, would be cool for a physio lab to look into this!
I'm planning a roped phase soon, and just by the way my schedule works I'm probs gonna do repeaters 2x a week and 4x4 once a week. It'll be interesting to see if the gains carry over much, given the specificity of PE gains
Thanks for the great overview. However im concerned about the main point i learned from this channel: to value focus and simplicity and therefore avoid too many different stimuli and exercises. Surely i love a good sufferfest, but don´t I have to worry about interference effects, overuse injuries or ineffiecently long recovery periods which might be needed for additional endurance training in the end of a session?
As for now i´ve been afraid of all of this and tried to cover up my lacking endurance with an even quicker bouldering style.
Interference effect is a mostly disproven hypothesis. Yes you will have a greater recovery load, but introducing this over time will also improve your ability to recover a greater volume. It's worth ramping up gradually to begin with, but eventually the goal is to simply have more capacity to train.
Wow, such a comprehensive yet clear and enjoyable video on the topic! Makes you psyched to go try some of those protocols. Keep it up!
One question though: if you're doing an endurance protocol on a hangboard (or no hang, if that's ok?) what would be a good estimate of the weight to use compared to your max hang? Say I hang 100kg on a max protocol, how much weight would be a good guess for an endurance protocol? Thanks!
Great video! I don't have a fingerboard at home, not time to go to the gym more than 1 or 2 times a week, unfortunately. Do wrist curls help at all? I get a similar pump feeling, but I don't know if that necessarily means they help with bouldering endurance.
Wrist curls would target the wrist flexors more and not the two primary finger flexors (flexor digitorum profundus and superficialis) so no I wouldn't say that would directly replace this training. That doesn't mean it's not useful, strength and endurance in the wrist flexors is fine. It just won't actually replace the specific finger endurance you may be after.
Thanks nice your share this information s
We love to help!
in my opinion auto-belays are great for indurance training, the only thing that is sort of unclear and personal is the grades / level of difficulty that works best. Surely it is relative to one's redpoint yet how much down should one go?
To a grade where you get pumped and your forearms fail between 30-120 seconds. I mean telling you how many grades lower is never going to be as specific as that guideline.
100% this.
Would repeaters on a “no-hang” edge work? Like with the tension block?
If you're still able to achieve the fatigue in the forearms that we/you desire then that should be fine? In the footage of us using the Tindeq, I'm using a Fricticious Port-a-board which is similar in function to the tension block.
It would be awesome to have (more) lead/sport climbing videos. Most of the existing youtube channels are bouldering-centered :(
I am a bit confused and would appreciate some thoughts on this: I’ve read strong recommendations about avoiding training to failure particularly for non-hypertrophy training. On the other hand, endurance training seem to suggest, and the video mentions this too, the need to training to failure.
What is the missing part in between these two advice which would otherwise seem contradictory?
Best place to start would be to clarify what type of training you’ve been told to avoid doing to failure. Are you talking about strength training? Climbing? Running? Any type of physical activity?
Often for strength training we like to avoid going to failure simply because it’s not needed to achieve strength gains and it adds a disproportionate amount of fatigue which then prevents us from recovering as quickly, thus prolonging the time we need to wait until the next training session, thus reducing the total number of training sessions we can do in a given amount of time, thus reducing our total strength gains during that timeframe.
For the type of endurance training in this video, however, there does appear to be some utility (or even necessity) in training to failure (or close to it) in order to achieve the stimulus we want. This is mostly based on practitioner experience (aka Dan’s professional climbing and coaching career), as there is little to no research that can be *appropriately* applied here (though that doesn’t stop many from trying).
Hope that helps!
-Emile
@@HoopersBeta Thank you for answering so quickly!
I've failed to clarify that my question is not meant to debate the advice, but rather to help me understand it in the bigger context of training principles.
Indeed, the first reference to avoid training to failure is in the context of max strength training. The summary I read could be possibly extended to other types of training but that might not be the case.
thanks again, Alex
Even if you were debating the advice, that’d be okay too 😜 nothing wrong with some healthy skepticism. Hope the training goes well!
-Emile
Cool Video! Can I do some dead hang endurance on my rest days if I'm already bouldering 3x a week?
Theoretically it should be fine, but listen to your body and make sure you don’t overdo it.
I’d start with just a couple sets and see how you handle it.
@@danielbeall7725 Thanks, will do!
When you do the campus board method, is a set considered climbing for roughly 30-120 seconds to failure, or is a "set" where you repeat that a few times with 30-90 seconds rest in between, and then take a longer pause of 10 minutes between those?
No matter which endurance training method you’re doing, one set = approximately 30-120 seconds of effort (reaching failure or near-failure). Then get a good long rest (around 10 minutes if possible) between sets.
Is this usually just done for 1 cycle of say 6 weeks or try and incorporate for a longer time frame?
It depends on what you’re trying to accomplish. There’s no need to stop training endurance after six weeks unless you have some other training goals you want to prioritize. If you don’t have a good reason to stop doing endurance training, then why stop? 😄
I'd love to hear tour take on Dave MacLeod endurance training, sets pf 40 minute very low intensity climbing comparable to a level 1 run aerea training. Really interesting approach but somehow very different to the setting described here
The focus with this training being applicable to all, but more geared towards boulderers, may be the specific difference. If your goal is long, sustained climbing days on multi-pitch or just very long routes then having good aerobic capacity certainly helps. But having good anaerobic capacity for sustained sections is not only useful for boulderers, but also sport climbers moving their challenging or more intense sequences.
Petra Cliffs climbing gym in the first clip of the video 🎉 🤘
My gym actually has circuit boards with preset curcuits that even get reset once very blue moon. If I push these to failure, that usually means I'm too fatigued to do the next move and pop off trying to do it. However, there's also certain curcuits, especially when hopping back on with minimal rest, where my forearms get at least 50% bigger and get so pumped that they sort of lock up and are just toast for the next 10+ minutes.
Which one am I going for? The latter would mean I'd have to do that towards the end of a session, since I usually don't recover well enough from this to do any useful climbing for the next half an hour or longer.
Either way you should be doing these at the end of the session, otherwise it would compromise your ability to project or work on skill acquisition. It sounds like both are getting you pumped, but one circuit more than the other? I suppose the simple answer would be: perform both for fun and variety, or perform whichever circuit gets you the desired level of fatigue within the timeframe that would be most useful for bouldering (30-120 seconds) while keeping you safe (best holds for you / your ability level). - Jason
The bigger question really is “what are you training for”?
If you have a specific answer to that, then that should inform your choice between a circuits.
If you don’t, then do whichever you prefer, or alternate for variety!
hey i know youve got a video on leg excercises, but i have a suggestion for a video idea, explosive leg power! as i find im lacking the explosive power in my legs for some dyno's. (i am able to do about 3 pistol squats in a row but i just cant seem to jump high enough)
Nice! Sounds like you have good strength and through a full range of motion. I wonder, how high can you jump on flat ground with two legs and/or one? Sometimes it's not just how high you can jump, it's how you execute the jump on the wall. We've reviewed this in a couple episodes of Anatomy of the Climb, but hip positioning and how you move into or away from the wall makes a big difference. Your best starting point might be to either record yourself attempting the dyno and compare that to the anatomy of the climb episode advice, or just testing your basic jumping ability.
thanks for responding, i tested my vert (using my arms for momentum and slapping my hand against the wall) and it seems to be about 55cm at my best (a lot of attempts are 10cm worse) for 2 feet, and about half of that for either single left or single right.
I for sure have alot of technique to improve on, but i wonder how these numbers add up@@HoopersBeta
Thanks!
Thank you for your support!
Nah, thank you indeed @@HoopersBeta
What about low end aerobic training AVOIDING the pump as a way to support the anerobic system? This is what Steve Bechtel talks about as that is the system least trainable. Then spin up the high end anerobic system when needed. But maybe that is more relevent for sport climbers? 🤔
Also suprised interference effect was not mensioned if throwing endurance in at the end of a boulder session and especially if also squeezing in some strength work in between endurance sets! Sounds like a good way to get bo!*xed!
I still want to do more research, personally, but recently it's become more apparent that the interference effect was somewhat majorly overblown. A lot of the over-hype was related to a research paper where the individuals who were suffering from the potential interference effect simply weren't getting enough calories to combat the increased training they were performing. So it made it like very legit, despite an obvious flaw.
@@HoopersBeta ah OK. Interesting. I guess if you have the energy then anythings possible - in theory!
And what are your thoughts currently on that point on low end aerobic training to increase the amount you can climb in the aerobic zone BEFORE getting pumped? I've been doing 5mins on / 5 mins off x 4 going round and round on my fingerboard to try and simulate an aerobic threshold type 4 x 4 on routes (yes its quite dull! 😂). And doing so maintaining, where possible, nassal briething and not getting too pumped. From my reading / pod cast listens various this sounds like a good way to get aerobic foream endurance and can be done when in a strength fase. Now you're throwing puppy endurance training back at me know and I'm wondering whare best to spend my time! 🤯😃
Yours inquisitive armature training enthusiast! 😃
Any type of strength exercises that should be avoided in between the endurance sets? 22:40
I know he's been dead for a while now but what did you think of Doug Brignole's work? He published a book.
Thank you so much for not talking about energy systems. There is so much pseudoscience. It’s refreshing to see a more evidence-based approach: silence 🎉
Start route climbing! Silly geese!
We talk about that in the video 🤙
@@HoopersBeta I know haha just trolling since a lot of boulderers don’t rope climb lol
How should I properly shave my calluses on my hands? Should I just use sandpaper? Should I use something like nail clippers to cut at it? And when should I shave it?
Lattice has a good video on it. Both tools you mentioned are used. Personally I do skin care right after my session for maximum recovery time.
Do u have a source of the table at 19:07 ?
What do you mean by a quote?
@@HoopersBeta sorry. I meant source. The literature. Thanks :)
Has arc training been discredited? (Arc meaning very low intensity, very long duration)
Arc training, with its longer duration, shifts the focus towards the aerobic energy system. This is fine if that's your focus but may not cause the adaptations we are looking for in the anaerobic systems, which is important for those sustained challenging sections of routes.
Thanks, very helpful!! However: soreness.
My challenge is that getting really pumped /climb till failure (especially if several times in a session) makes my forearms sore the next day, at worst 2-4 days after the session. Being sore prevents from training effectively. I've bouldered for about 7 years, still have this problem. Tho, I've never really seriously tried training my endurance, so it might change over time if I started doing this 2-3 a week...
Doing mild forearm stretching post session helps a bit. My nutrition intake is fine, and get enough sleep. Anyone else have this problem? Tips?
Thanks!!
It might be important to make note of the potential difference between endurance training failure, and pure climbing til failure. In both scenarios, you're still adding to your total work, and as such you may need more recovery time. But, since endurance training, especially that which Dan lays out, is 2-3 sets of 30-120 seconds and on somewhat larger holds, the intensity may be slightly lower from a pure muscle recruitment/force production standard, meaning the total work is different for endurance training than pure climbing til failure. But, regardless, yes, any time you are adding to your training, you need to make adjustments either by 1) increasing your recovery time or 2) modifying/cutting something else out. Taking 2-3 hard attempts off of your total session could be the cut you need to add in a bit of endurance.
Thank you so much for this answer, it makes total sense. And still, I never really had thought about it - that the quality of failures could give different outcomes. Now that I think of it, the worst forearm soreness (recovery taking like half a week) always comes from those very desperate attempts on my very limit grades, especially at crag when you just don't want to leave without success. While being exhausted after a balanced intense training never gives as bad soreness, even if the session gave some serious pumps.
I'll adjust my training as adding these endurance workouts. Super helpful, thank you very much, your channel is Pure Gold. @@HoopersBeta
Im trying to stay on the wall for 40min continuous, im at 17min right now. I think its fun but do you think its very inefficient?
Depends on your objectives. If you’re predominantly, or exclusively, a boulderer, it may not be a great use of your time.
As a rope climber, it’s plausible that it’s building a helpful base, but it does seem that in a lot of circumstances, on the wall time beyond ~10 min starts to have less clear carryover.
Something I've often heard is that "I am a boulderer unga bunga, I want strength and explosivity and thus I don't want slow twitch fiber adaptations to compete with fast twitch ones"; perhaps, especially as one grows older and it gets harder to make strength gains. Do you think there's any truth at all to this? Is it really a zero-sum game?
Short answer is that no, it’s not something you need to worry about.
Medium answer is that fiber type transitions (slow to fast and fast to slow) have never been demonstrated in humans, and practically don’t seem to happen. Fiber types in detail are a lot more complicated than that, but the point in general stands.
Interference effects haven’t really been demonstrated in upper body movements, and interference effects as a phenomenon in general have begun to look a lot less significant than previously thought. (Some interesting details re interference, but way too long for a UA-cam comment)
Certain movement patterns and muscles would probably best be trained in a specific range on the adaptation spectrum, depending on the desired goal.
Still, there are often combinations of seemingly opposite adaptations in many athletic fields. Just look at any sport: basketball, football, mma, etc..
Also, in IFSC they usually get 5 minutes of performing a boulder problem. If you don't flash it first try, you're in trouble unless you have some recovery capacity and endurance.
“We don’t know how energy systems work”
See? The literature is *not against* me eating 7 pastries as part of endurance training
So the endurance here corresponds to what is (normally?) referred to as power endurance. The (aerobic?) endurance is not mention here. Is it because that you think it is not as important, or just because this is mainly a bouldering channel so (aerobic) endurance is not as relevant?
Yes, this training does favor boulderers, but it has carry over for rope climbers as well. Specifically during sustained/challenging sections or single pitch attempts.
Mesa rim poj
*Laughs in 1 star lowball*
🤮
A classic boulderer 🪨 Renaissance thumbnail