Can You Record a Conversation Without Knowledge? | BlackBeltBarrister
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Many people have asked whether you can record a conversation without the knowledge of the person you are recording. There is, as usual, a simple answer but it is always worth understanding the full implications of recording a conversation and what you may (or may not) do with that recording afterward.
There are issues with privacy, confidence, admissibility and, potentially, data protection, too. Watch in full to get a broad overview of the legal position of such recordings.
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At one company the operations manager was bullying me in such an egregious manner that I started going to work with a voice recorder hung round my neck under my shirt, because I could foresee that it would end up at a tribunal, and my accurate account of his behaviour could sound so extreme it might be rejected as being untruthful. A judge had no difficulty accepting the recordings, BUT, I had to produce a transcript of every recording I still had. That was a really big job. However, they were very willing to settle for a 5-figure sum.
To create accurate transcripts simply use a voice2text app.
it's weird that they won't listen to a recording but will read a transcript of recordings.
@@anthonysicily5768 its a bit late to reply, but voice to text apps are highly unreliable because they get words wrong all the time, due to tonality, accents, background noise et cetera. you still end up having to correct all the punctuation so the text can be read, so you may as well just write the transcript yourself in the first place.
@@anthonysicily5768 Seriously, voice to text apps generally require a fairly clean signal. Most of the recordings I had would have defeated any kind of computerised app, and it was a long and painful process sometimes to work out exactly what someone had said.
A colleague of mine had the same thing, he went into a disciplinary meeting with senior management armed with covert recording as evidence of his line managers bullying antics,
Instead of him getting disciplined They actually disciplined his manager in the meeting for being dishonest and being a bully,
In the corridor outside after this his manger pulled him to one side and threatened to get him if he ever covertly recorded him again, to which my colleague replied…..
“You do realise that I recorded that last meeting and the recorder In my pocket is still running so it picked up that threat you just made” LOL 😂
I have used this before during disciplinary action at work. I was accused of something I didn't do and called in for a disciplinary meeting. I placed my phone down when I went in and stated I was recording the proceedings. The manager told me that I was not allowed to do so but I insisted that I was going to do it. This led to a problem, they couldn't proceed with the meeting because I refused to turn off the recording, but that of course meant they could not issue the warning. They couldn't issue me with any warning for recording because I would have insisted on recording that warning also. The manager had to call head office to get advice. Head office told him to drop the entire matter. Problem solved.
Full boss mode
Good stuff
What did they accuse you of doing, and did you do it?
Fabulous
@@sam04019491he won’t answer if he is smart enough to record
I have had conversations with social services and other professionals because my children have problems, but after I read a report where they totally lied about what I said, I started to secretly record the conversations. I also recommend recording when dealing with schools.
I had exactly the same,I was so glad I recorded their call as a report was completely wrong..but was changed after they heard the calls! Disgusting as they are dealing with peoples lives & families.
I covertly recorded a conversation once at work. I kept it for my own reference and was pulled in by my boss who told me the other person had said what I had said. It was a very serious situation and my job was on the line. I showed him the real conversation and proved the girl was lying. I don't think I broke any laws and it saved my job and reputation.
Wowzers
@@BlackBeltBarrister *Surely that is illegal if he didn't get consent from the girl to share it?*
"the other person had said what I had said"
What does this mean?
@@TaxingIsThieving Poorly expressed, I agree, but I think what he meant was, " gave her own version of what I had said".
@@BlackBeltBarrister *Is it?*
Even if its not legal in some cases I would. , especially with specific types of authority and people... Especially In todays day, age.
@@Nickle314
In court, you say nothing unless you're answering questions put to you by a lawyer. The only exception to this is if you are representing yourself. In which case the following quote applies.
"A Man Who Is His Own Lawyer Has a Fool for a Client"
Abraham Lincoln.
@@Nickle314 I think there are court rules for submitting evidence you may not be allowed to and if you are it will be noted and a big point made about it Being put fourth this late ( I speak from experience not recordeing's ) it may even be called fake and your ability to say it is not is very compromised
@@Nickle314
This shows how little you understand the legal system (the same as Brexit, the EU and covid-19). Unless you're representing yourself, you are absolutely *not* allowed to address a witness. Only evidence that has previously been agreed by the prosecution and defence can be introduced in court.
@@ianl1052 not quite true - you can make a statement from the dock
@@ianl1052 Well surely if both needed to agree no prosecution would EVER agree with evidence proving your innocence being given!
I've made a covert recording myself, which I later used in court. Had it not been for the recording, I'd have lost the case.
I recorded my virgin call when I signed up, my first bill was £50 more than the price I agreed, when I called them they disputed saying that price, I told them I had recorded the call, they said they only accept their own recordings as accurate! They did eventually agree to the price quoted. I record most calls and interactions with officials.
I would say "well listen to your recording then"
Just get rid; VM are scum. We moved from them last September to Sky for a lower cost and lower speed as VM's service is utter crap and the phone support is even worse!
We had a similar situation with Sky when we were going to switch to VM, the Sky rep promised a lower monthly charge than VM and it would be enforced for 1 year, my we accepted the offer, then we got a bigger bill than promised so we complained, Sky said they’ve checked their recording and denied everything. We switched to VM and have been with them since, I don’t think they’re any better than Sky when trying to squeeze their customers.
its funny how virgin loose those recordings all the time
on the flip side bt have actually on a couple of occasions pulled the audio on there side and gone fair play the guy did say that were gonna abide by what he prommised you he shouldnt have said that but well honor it ((not that they had a choice legally))
@Ken Abell they tried sonething like that with me (even tried to trick me into signing something to that effect). I held out for a few months told them I was cancelling and they offered me a new deal, wiping out the "debt" in return for resetting the clock on the 12 months with new and better terms. Then they pulled the same stunt again, but this time I had it recorded. When I told them (after the second disagreement arose) they said something similar: that unless I told them at the time, it was inadmissible in court. I told them that if they were so sure, let them take me to court and run the risk of a perjury charge. Guess what? They backed down.
I'm totally in favour of covertly recording conversations that show people to be cheats and liars: particularly when it comes to salesmen or the workplace. Dishonest people richly deserve their comeuppance, and anything that helps them get it is fair game. How can it possibly be unfair to show that a person has been dishonest?
A judge who refuses to hear evidence that can throw light on the truth is a bent judge!
Many people fall flat with judges because most judges refuse to hear/see evidence that hasn't been transcribed and tested for authenticity. With the ease of sexing up and doctoring video and audio in this modern age you can understand why they want it all checked and laid out with an assessment that certified the material is unedited, verbatim material and by transcription the material is broken down into segments allowing the judge and briefs to see the whole encounter word for word.
The problem is these can be set-up and the court must consider public policy, its not just this case the judgment creates precedent.
@@dodgydruid true but i think it would be for the other side to prove that the evidence was doctored otherwise video and audio evidence would never be allowed cause even legit video would just get claimed to be fake
100% AGREE DEFO WHEN IT COMES TO SCUM BAG SOCIAL SERVICES
In todays environment, had I not walked away from the work place, I'd certainly have a hidden recorder in my office or on my person.
I recorded a conversation between myself and one other, and I used it in court ,it was never played in court but the judge listened to it in his Chambers, we won the case I am not saying my recording won the case for me but it must have helped.
Good job.
I always “take notes” and write a transcript of all my calls when I think the other party may lie or try and dispute what was said in the call.
Any decent solicitor or barrister acting for the other side will realise that there is an actual recording also. Hehe 😉
@@Liberty_Freedom_Brotherhood You must just have a really good memory.
Problem with a company? I always say, "I record my telephone calls for reference, just as your company does." Amazing how it can improve a response.
I work in customer service - I don't see how it would help, us CS agents are already being recorded & you can always get a copy by requesting one as a subject access request. When customers tell me they're recording, I just answer "that's your prerogative, sir" & carry on as usual.
@@vijay-c yeah it's mostly the more dodgy ones it fixes, also it's always interesting to see when some companies either "didn't record that particular call" or it's somehow missing from the batch you request, while you might not be doing anything wrong there are a lot of individuals out there that do
Had a few times i told them at the end. Very upset a few years ago when ebay cold called me and at the end the guy got very annoyed and hung up lol
If the voice message says: "This conversation will be recorded for monitoring etc purposes." Then I wouldn't even bother. They've already given you permission.
@@sepgorut2492 that doesn't count as permission, they are required to state that in order for you to be able to opt out by hanging up, it doesn't immediately give you default permission to record it yourself and if you plan on legally sharing it you would still need their consent anyway, which is why the message is there
I record everything - phone calls & meetings with the NHS, Council & Police because I found they often lied.
I have had major problems with Northamptonshire police. I ended up emailing them saying " All conversations will be recorded from now on". I have 146 recordings of lies, misleading the public, contradictions, making up their own laws etc I am hoping to use as evidence in court. I now know to ask for permission from the judge prior to doing this. Thank you BBB, much appreciated.
Brilliant, Wish I had done the same thing on many occasions.
You can't trust the police, say nothing to them without a record or they will lie.
If you've had that much contact with Northamptonshire Police, I'm gunna go ahead and assume you've commited some crime and are probably just being extremely difficult.
@@rickybojangles162 Not necessarily. If the Police arrested themselves for wasting Police time, we'd soon have no Police because they are the biggest perpetrators of that crime. If you stand up to these bullies they take it personally and harass you for years. Simply putting your vehicle registration on the PNC with markers for drugs and weapons etc wi see you stopped and turned out twice a week for years. It's their form of revenge for not immediately submitting to their will when they overstep the boundaries of the law. Record everything. Say nothing.
@@rickybojangles162 Don't assume anything of the kind. I haven't had any problems with the police itself, far from it.
However, when living at my former address: my family and several more in a nearby town all had very negative experiences with a different authority who, on the word of one doctor (later the subject of a major enquiry into her conduct) persecuted us for 3 years.
We received numerous phones calls and daily letters (the most was 13 letters in one day), as this crazed doctor pressured social services, called on multiple doctors across more than one county to join in her persecution, and even threatened us with court action.
Now you take into consideration this - 'we' were the ones that came to that regional branch of the NHS 'hoping' to get help from them (that's after having just moved from another area, where the NHS there had been wonderfully supportive, effective and making really positive progress for the family member that needed help).
But what we got in this new region was backward thinking, self-aggrandising behaviour, blatant lies, and extreme harassment that still gives me nightmares to this day, and gave constant distress for my husband (that I blame for the 2-year-long cancer he battled afterwards).
I am not going into detail about what happened because although nearly 20 years have passed, I can still feel myself getting angry and upset. My feelings of revenge against certain people involved in that miserable business are so strong, I cannot go near that county without seeing red.
But if you think for one moment that 146 communications from the police to this guy is excessive or 'proof' of his guilt... well, I can tell you, I can more than double that number from this freak of a doctor and her cronies - who just didn't like being told 'they had nothing to offer us' (because they didn't have available the actual medical professional we needed in their entire region).
Some of these authorities are made up of self-righteous monsters, who will twist your words and report things not said and not seen.
Never trust any authority 100%, ever. Record all conversations.
Another good un.I,m getting schooled and love it.”Its all about context’ is now my fav legal line.ha.thanx
Love that!
I do know from my time as a Union Health & Safety rep like you said, that we were allowed to record meetings with management without their knowledge. And it came in rather handy more than once.
I’ve done the same
I automatically record every single phone call on my mobile using "Cube ACR" it just does it, I mostly forget it's there. A few times it has come into it's own, once on a phone contract where they decided to charge me more than the agreed amount. When they heard the recording with the customer rep, they backed down and refunded the extra payment and continued at the correct tariff. RECORD EVERYTHING!
Same too. I have for a long-time and caught a liar who kept the lie until he was exposed.. Record everything everywhere you never know when you might need it
Same, it's like insurance... You have when you don't really need it, until the one time you do.
Me too! Glad to know I'm not alone :) 🤕😮! esp within the medical sector LONG
before cv magically appeared.
Sad times we live in 💗 x
@@M123-w1s It's crazie life at the mo
I use the exsct app very good
Journalists regularly covertly record conversations. They publish it without permission, especially when they are publishing dodgy deals etc.
Yes that’s true, but isn’t the point of this video to clarify that such recordings might be decided inadmissible in court proceedings? So you can’t rely on them for that purpose.
They are legally entitled to record the conversation, which is the question asked in the video.
@@Kyrelel And is the interviewee legally entitled to rip the recorder out of their pocket?
I covertly recorded conversations with my housing management when being accused of alleged allegations with it being my word against theirs and for my own protection .
NHS covid phoned me. After hello, they gabbled on about recording for security and training and was that ok with me. I said No. They hung up. Good with me, i didn't ask them to phone me. So they didn't want to speak to me unless they could record.
Well that's to protect them, just like the automated message you get when you ring the vast majority of companies, do you not speak to any company ever?
@@shanematthews1985 Try not to.
@Advanced Driving Ah yes, all those dirty tricks companies use. I`ve recorded my calls for 10yrs now and it`s made & saved me a lot of money. Sometimes when an operative gets a bit smart with me, I`ll tell them I`m recording them. When they say that I have to tell them that I`m recording at the start of the conversation, I point out that their company made a statement of fact re recorded calls, that covers me also. _This call may be recorded_ ...damn right it might be, haha.
@@rattusnorvegicus4380 Yes, everyone on the call will have heard the words, “this call may be recorded…” No need to repeat them.
Same here. They nevrr phoned again.
When I did this, it was very empowering in industrial relations breakdown while exposing fraud, basically as described, for note taking purposes and minute making during disciplinary disputes etc against a vindictive manager, I was a union rep and had very honest opposition once rumour spread lol. I kept it to myself and quoted managers, after being threatened with slander previously for first stage whistleblowing going to my line manager etc, so I thought I’d bait him into making good on his “slander” threat of opportunity arose and then transcribe what I’d made reference to.. he lost his job
NEEDS TO BE WRITTEN IN LAW THAT PARENTS ARE ALLOWED TO RECORD SOCIAL SERVICES MEETING AND THAT ALL MEETINGS ARE TO BE RECORDED BY SOCIAL SERVICES
Thank you. The law on this seems to have changed a few times since I was young.
The last I heard involved a high ranking police officer who covertly recorded a conversation with a senior who was picking on him and setting him up. The ruling of the High Court then was that it was lawful as long as the recording for his own notes only and didn't play the recording to anyone else. However, the court could (and did) have a transcript made of the recording. The police officer won his case based on the transcript.
From what you explain, that ruling is unchanged. It is a fair and reasonable decision.
I would say defiantly record especially when speaking with the police. Oh how some of them lie and then retract when they are informed of the recording.
ESPECIALLY when speaking with the police
Always when speaking with the police, and always video them if they are face to face.
Definately record the police & if their acting unprofessionally, it will assist in helping litigate against commissioner for metropolis of police as being vicariously liable for actions of officers under his/her command.
If I'm in conversation with a sales rep about buying something like a new or updated/upgraded contract, such as a telephone, and have been advised that it is being recorded for "training" purposes, I always demand a transcript of the conversation. This is because in the past I have been caught out and something that was supposed to be part of the contract was charged as an extra. I rang the company and after arguing with them (having been told that the agent couldn't possibly have said it), I spoke with the sales director and suggested that they consult their recording. Eventually I won my point butit took a lot of time and frayed nerves. They offered no goodwill token except to credit the charges but that is not goodwill. At the end of my obligations business wnt to another company. If you are not satisfied protest with your feet rather than empty, angry words.
I record all my phone calls, even if i don't need to, most of them get deleted but if the conversation becomes significant, then it's worth having a copy for dispute and legal purposes
Do you use a particular app?
I record all conversations with police. I record all conversations with public officials. I have on so many occasions prior to my becoming an investigative journalist, been caught short with officialdom and screwed over. Never ever again.
When talking with witnesses I will take notes and ONLY when I have asked and received permission to do so, will record. Otherwise...I go in prepared...
I worked for a retail company here in Ireland. The management was always changing, as in being moved on to other branches. Anyway, there was a change in management en masse. In retail, we can be moved from one departement to another. I was often moved from tills to deli to hot bar counter to food safety as I had qualifications in Food Safey. Anyway, there were 2 department managers who always pitted me against each other which put me into the cross hairs of the Store Manager. They always had their tracks well covered. I bought a cheap dictaphone machine from a well known outlet & I recorded them pitting me against each other and when the store manager was about to shoot me (for want of a better phrase), I played the tape for him proving what the 2 department managers were doing. It transpired I wasn't their only victim and no explanation was given as to why they did what they did. I did tell the Store Manager that I took no pleasure in what I did and explained that there was no other option available to me to prove what was going on. They were never seen again at the branch I worked in. I don't know if they were sacked, or, just moved on to another branch. I remained at the branch for many years after that incident.
In divorce/family court, I would say it is a big no no.
Consider:
A wife knows her husband doesn't like her mother, and her mother knows this.
The mother tells the wife to pick a fight with the husband and record it.
In fact, the very fight is ABOUT the mother in law!
So, the wife goes to a judge to file for an order of protection and say, "See? He's yelling at me!"
Bah.
If you want to get a divorce, leave. Or at least move into a different part of the house. Suck it up.
Social workers routinely tell people they are forbidden to record phone calls or them say in a visit to the house and this is not the case. BTW if you ever chat with Doug Taylor or Gary Self, tell them the mad single dad's daughter turned out fantastic, O and A levels, bit of uni, now a major asset in a frontline NHS unit in Glasgow, would never have done it without those two barrister's or Roger Jarvis my brief :) Daughters court bundle was the largest in the system (four pallet trucks several feet high of papers and half a million quid in legal aid costs) having fought off social workers for 16 years, the longevity of that was due to the change in case law my daughters custody case gave to other single dad's and social services were desperate to queer the caselaw as single dad's was never on their agenda and I broke through it all proving not all of us blokes were wasters.
Great to hear you prevailed, I’ve been in a shorter battle with the SS myself as a single father took 3 years before they realised the mother was a violent alcoholic, think I’m winning now … 😀
Congratulations on the great outcome for your daughter
Good for you, well done, do you offer advice please? SS are destroying my Mum's life and mine.
Who read all of the documents?!
I use a Dictaphone for personal protection, I have faced accusations in the past I couldn't prove false and suffered and it has saved my position , not necessarily work, quite a few times as I turn it on during any confrontation. When you have racist thrown at you unfairly it can get very damaging if not proven false which is happening a lot more lately. Saved my job 4 times in past 2 years. Glad to hear I have been using it reasonably, I don't use it continuously but when the situation warrants protection.
This is a very interesting video and brought up issues and situations I hadn't actually considered. Normally I have a strict rule that, when I believe it is necessary to generate a paper trail of a line of evidencial artifacts I insist on using email as it appears to constitute irrefutable evidence with a coherent timeline.
I'll be honest, I dislike conduction anything via the telephone as it creates that 'he said, she said' scenario. The police often seem to try to use the telephone in order to avoid creating a record. As soon as they are pressed to put their position in writing they go instantly silent as they are usually trying to wriggle out of some wrong doing or incompetence.
I secretly recorded my wife’s Disabled assessment and glad I did as her application was refused by a lying assessor, when they knew I had I recording of it and could prove the the assessor lied in the interview she was granted her full allowance
had the same problem with the dwp myself the covert recording proved their lies, they got very upset with me when they found out they had been caught out, works well.
@@dbrown51967 well done mate 👍
So when a company tells you the call is being recorded for training purposes (which they always do), does that mean they cant use it as evidence outside of the purpose they stated? and if they can, then so can we surely.
When they say "this call is being recorded for training and quality purposes", I think to myself, damn right, as I press record.
My Question is - I was having a Sex change, and the company went bust.
I am left in a quandry, where only one of my Breasts are implanted, and I have no below parts.
Please Help and advise.
In the case of someone being bullied at work without witnesses, is it then appropriate to secretly record the behaviour to evidence to the employer the issues?
Good question
I don't see why not.
First😉🤣
No need for a spoiler alert because I'm not going to reveal what I researched a few months ago.
I'm just wondering how a video can have a dislike hours before it's due to be broadcast. 🤔
Oh yes - but joke is on them, as UA-cam likes videos with interactions, whether positive or not!
Maybe those people belong to Secret Recording Club, whete the first rule is 'No talking about Secret Recording Club'
@@dshe8637 Haha!
I recorded gas company manager telling me on the phone she was glad I cut off...I was put back on with no charges
I'm not a lawyer, just something one told me.
If you record a convo it could be rejected by the court, you should type out a transcript of the convo and send it to the person asking if they disagree with anything in the transcript. if they dont then you can enter the transcript of the convo even if the recording is rejected and if they deny something the court will allow the recording to confirm if the transcript is accurate.
I recoreded a diciplinary hearing against me, after I was initially and most wrongly accused of theft of money at work. At the end of the hearing, they stated I was now going to be considered for dismisal., at which point I revealed I'd recorded the whole proceedure, which is too long winded to go into, but most was grossly exagerrated rude and presumtious. Amazingly I was offered a better job with a wage increase just a few days later.
You should mention investigative journalism where releasing information is in the publics interest.
I used covert recordings against my managers on the basis they were prepared to break the law against me but I never made the recordings public and only to a tribunal judge. Amusingly they tried to blackmail me and used a device to ruin my recording but an anonymous person cleared the white noise from the tape so that I could use it.
Wow, how'd they do that
Been there myself but they didn't know I was recording. How else are you supposed to protect yourself against bent managers and personnel managers who are fixing you up for constructive dismissal ?????
I think all calls should be recorded. This would of saved my a lot of trouble and got a few people sacked! I would hope.
It would HAVE saved you. Of and have are not the same and don't mean the same thing.
@@Cornz38 Also spelled me as my,Oo kill me. You are obviously not British so don't try and teach me the English language. You wouldn't understand any of it! : )
@blackbeltbarrister, would be interested in your views of GDPR and DVLA selling info to private parking companies.
Also those PPC then passing info onto third party debt collectors before county court order
I would love to see a video explaining about the legality of photographing people in public spaces.
In the past I have had success with making a company go back to it’s own recordings, they after all,told me as part of a pre-recorded preamble, that they recorded all conversations. So when a phone company repeatedly tried to alter the terms of my agreement, I just told them to go back to our first conversation. They honoured their agreement !
Would you please make a video on personal data and a data breach and what you can do if a business gives your personal details to a member of the public without consent. Thank you.
I think they should put covert recording devices in government buildings and royal buildings, also the bbc buildings, I bet you will find out how much corruption is going on in them places.
Great timing for me. Looking forward to this.
I have a phone app on my phone that records all outgoing and incoming calls by default. Invaluable when you are talking to the police during a phone complaint or pretty much anywhere outside an interview under caution or during court (which is the only two places recording becomes illegal).
Also note; a Public Officer carrying out a public duty in a public place or when serving the public has zero right to privacy (the clue is in how many times the word 'public' appears in this sentence!). The only recourse an officer who wants you to stop is obstruction (esp during an arrest of another person), which they will try to trick you into committing, so keep distance to 5 metres and your mouth shut if you sense this is happening.
Another name for a police officer is 'Public Officer' and law also states that the level of proof Public Officers need to take you to court over covert recordings is far higher than the public; they have to prove 'malicious intent'. Politicians are also Public Officers, which is why the press can record them and publish it ('public interest' beats 'malicious intent' every time in the UK).
I always record calls to companies, utilities,insurance and the like . You just can’t trust them.
After a colleague was recorded unknowingly by a manager during an investigation about a minor incident. Manager then produced the recording at a disciplinary interview but in a different context. We all recorded everything and always made sure we were never alone in his office.
He eventually got sacked for bullying.
I hope my manager gets sacked he is a fucking bully
I don’t get a chance to tell company’s that I’m recording the call… they start ranting and I can’t get a word in… also most of their people I talk to are people who’s 1st language isn’t English and sometimes I have to listen again to what they’ve said so that I can understand the conversation… also for my brother… he says i say things which i know I didn’t lol…
I thought you could share recordings if it's in the public interest. Otherwise how do media and whistleblowers get away with it?
I record every call where I’m dealing with companies and doctors. Especially mobile phone companies as it’s come in handy on more than one occasion. 👍🏾
Do you mean with 3 where they tell you they have 99% network coverage but they have poor signal nearly everywhere? Will do.
Q. For a future video:
Can an employee personally record incidents at work for personal protection including sending up their own drone to locate trespassers and so avoid a sudden confrontation?
@@MrBollocks10 It works in Ukraine...
I think things like pip assessments or anything else that has a bearing on people's lives based on the judgement should, legally, be recorded as evidence. As it stands DWP forbid recording and therefore there is no evidence of what was said during the assessment. This is a particular situation in which a recording should be made as the claimant may be suffering from a number of conditions that would make it difficult to have accurate recall.
Does this also apply to police interviews/meetings that they have not recorded, or are there any special considerations?
yes you can, covertly or overtly, the only real question is 'what are the consequences?'
I'm going to covertly record this video. :)
BlackbeltBarrister Huge respect for you, Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Regarding recording conversations like a phone call where the other party states the call is recorded for training purposes or whatever, if I was then to make a recording of the same phone conversation at my end but not tell them, would the fact that they stated they were recording make my recording permissible such as for use against them ie in court.?
A judge can always rule that your recording is heard
As always, excellent content.
What is the legal stance when it comes to wearing a bodycam and presenting both video and audio in court?
Only last week whilst shopping inSainsbury’s I noticed that all staff members were wearing bodycams and I am sure this will be a trend that will spread into many aspects of our lives.
Interesting that you mention GDPR for personal use. I know it applies to businesses but does it apply to sole traders. As a self-employed electrician people give me their details and I'm sure they assume that I will keep them. Is there something I should be doing about this?
I always record the council & my calls whereby I dont know the callers number. NHS told me I would be arrested. I said I will leave the door open for police to arrest me for NOT breaking criminal law. They then shut up!
A UK TV channel did some covert video recording at a company re the company doing a lot of things wrong. When the company found out (before the TV program went out the TV company ask the company they looked at for comment) the company Lawyers said it would be in admissable in court. The TV company said OK. Broadcast the program and within 24 hours of the broadcast multiple company directors resignd and staff fired. When it went to court over the wrong doings months later the video was not needed as the lid had been blown off and enough witnesses talked. So not being able to use the recording in court may not lessen the impact it can have.
You can't entrap someone.
But you can 'accidentally' switch on the voice recording functionality on your phone, while it is in your pocket. Your phone accidentally dials numbers when it's in your pocket all the time.
that i didnt understand entrapment would be a entirley different thing
entrapment is coercing someone into doing illigal activity they would not otherwise do with the intent to catch them in the act
example: go on john have a chocolate go on no one will know it will be our secret dont be shy go ahead i wont tell
you have manipulated john into doing something he was against and wouldnt have done otherwise
recording someone in the act of doing something they would have done anyways wouldnt be entrapment otherwise getting caught on cctv stealing a car would be entrapment
@@Sarge92 i think you meant "otherwise NOT do"
@@Boudicca-the-musical indeed
So if a company say "your call may be recorded for training purposes", does this mean they can use the recording as evidence in court, or does specifying the purpose of the recording limit it's use for that purpose only?
Another great, thought provoking video. It's interesting to see how Government agencies who usually have extremely strict criteria for 'permissable recording devices allowed into interviews', are having to relax it to include recording equipment that is more reasonable to expect Mr Joe Public to have access to.
I will answer this on ua-cam.com/users/BlackBeltSecrets !
I've heard "your call may be recorded for training and other purposes" before, I guess other pretty much covers everything.
QUESTION: It was determined that English folk have "the right to offend" i.e. their freedom of speech is protected. Why don't the Scottish have the same right to free speech? Aren't they also covered by UK law? Thanks for your consideration.
Whern was this, could you provide us with the documents, web pages please so we all can reference it.
Because Nicola Truncheon believes that women have willies just because she does.
If a company tells me they are recording the call, I take it as read they agree to my recording. After all, it's simply a duplicate of theirs.
It's in your financial interests to record any verbal interactions with employers, keep in mind most people are merely a number to a business.
Any time you want an accurate account of what's being said to you I'd always recommend that you record it, if you want to inform the people you're recording that's up to you but doing so may change any interactions entirely.
'Most people are merely a number to a business' is simply not true. 60% of employees work for SMEs (under 250 employees). Given the small number of employees, each individual is unlikely to be treated as a merely a number.
Even in larger organisations, managers are humans too, as well as employees themselves.
If it is necessary to start recording conversations with your employer, it's probably time to find another job.
@@MyMednas incorrect, and there's substantial evidence to support it one very overwhelming fact is "zero hour contracts" another is "employment agencies" these alone allow employers to drop any employees who are on them with nothing more than a text message.
You saying that people aren't just a number is a grossly misinformed statement.
Even smaller businesses use the very methods I've just mentioned, it's a means which allows for dismissal with absolute zero comebacks.
If you don't want to believe that, that's fine, it by no stretch of the imagination means it isn't happening every single day in the UK.
@@MyMednas Why would a small BUSINESS be any different than a big BUSINESS? I'm here because I record my boss, and when I say small business I mean I am currently the only employee. He's said dodgy things in the past and I want to know I'm not going mad. Plus, I am replaceable as anyone, and he has hundreds of clients, so that doesn't necessarily mean I'm not a number.
Practically every business you phone nowadays has the statement ' Your call may be recorded for...' - I choose to interpret that 'may' as being permission rather than possibility...
I’m not sure this is accurate... what about when newspapers catch politicians and celebrities out with covert recordings, and then publish them to shame them? How come the publisher isn’t prosecuted, if it’s illegal for an individual to do the same?
I wonder how many work incidents are settled confidentially in an agreeable manner for the victim with the employer choosing not to listen to recordings so that they can still maintain some form of deniability regarding workplace practices?
Peter Gore Seer,
I Record NHS Staff, Doctors, Police, Special Branch, And News Paper Interviews, These Companies Record Me Without Declareing.
Unless you are the BBC
If you are doing it secretly, why would it matter weather you are "allowed" to do it, or not ?
As he described, the issue comes when you want to actually use the recording as evidence. Generally speaking, evidence that is gathered illegally is not admissible in court, but it depends on how important the evidence is, and who did it. I'm surprised he didn't saying a bit more about the notion of wire-tapping, as I understood it was illegal to record a phonecall electronically (ie not from a microphone recording the sound coming through a speaker, but directly via the wire), because as far as I am aware, that is specific legislation prohibiting it unless all parties have been warned.
Government agencies are allowed to break the law, by law, under the new Covert Human Intelligence Sources bill.
begs the question if you were to publish it online is it ok if the other party is made anonymous ??...........I often record audio/visual and sometimes tell them sometimes not, because the establishment does as it likes and everyone wants to bullsh#t you daily for gain. 🤣
If you change their voice so it doesn't sound like them and don't disclose anything that can identify them I would guess maybe yes.
@@kiradotee I think so, a reconstruction with back up.
I recorded BB Barrister when he said this
Why would say the UK police ignore recordings of major crime?
If they can ignore events happening right in front of their own eyes, I’m pretty sure they’re happy to ignore recordings when it suits them.
The reality is that the police are now politicised, what they most fear is publicity and transparency if it shows them in a bad light.
@@makaismith2071 I remember Tommy was getting hundreds of threats to take his life on Twitter by the religious people’s and the police wouldn’t do nothing about it,but when he retweeted what got sent to him,the police threatened to arrest him
@@johnmcdonald9295 you mean Yaxley-Lennon? The guy who went around abusing people in the street, so he could record their reactions and claim they were being mean to him?
He's that white supremacist creep, isn't he?
@@dshe8637 he’s not a yt supremacist,but what he stood for was anti noncery,which I suspect is your reason for not liking him
@@johnmcdonald9295 No, the reason I don't like him is that he's a racist little hate-monger
Really interesting. I was recording a relatives memories in a care home. There was an altercation with the manager who was recorded losing her temper whilst I remained calm and how dismissive she was to my relative. I would like to release this recording to professional third parties (ombudsman or the Care Quality Commission) to prove my innocence and to highlight bad practice but I understand I could end up in court civil or criminal. Surely bad practice in a care home should be released. Really confused.
My unprofessional understanding is if it's serious then the judge doesn't care that it was recorded in secret.
Would it be possible to give us instructions to look at examples of Case Law within the Courts. How would we do this? Thank you in advance.
I like the word caveat, caveat........... caveat. Legally can I keep swords in my gym? What caveats would exist in such a circumstance? Long answer with third party disclosures to be heard in a court.
I wish I had a recording device years ago.
A probationary detective tried to blackmail me into giving false witness against his target - who I knew NOTHING of. ...... I told him to 'Bu**er off!' ...... My father was a WW2 submarine officer, and Captain of T-Class submarines until 1956, as hard as nails, and swore when needed - though not the F word. I was taught by him to be honest, and to do what was right, I was a Territorial Army soldier, and spoke as he did.
Within 20 minutes, the probationer had the target giving false witness against myself. ...... This means he had pre-prepared the witness statement, as the target lived 10 miles away. ...... It also means that a police officer was not only perverting the course of 'justice', but had PLANNED to do so, if required. ...... I was too young at 19 to know this.
The charge was a serious one - selling 2 rounds of ammo for 20p. ...... I defended myself. ...... Judge was ex-DPP, Sir Norman Skelhorn, QC. ...... Sir Norman was an absolute gentleman throughout the 2 day trial at Exeter Crown Court, explaining the process, and so on. ...... Today's meatgrinder 'justice' has wiped that out! ...... I cross-examined the witnesses. ...... The probationer was on the first day. ...... At about 1 am in the morning, as I planned my next day, I realised the significance of the timings. ...... There was a full detective next, who was NOT present at the attempted blackmail, and I managed to extract the fact that the blackmailer was probationary.
I won the charge. ...... I had spoken for 45 minutes from 6 small pieces of card. ...... As I made my points - and I did not mince my words - the jury were nodding their heads, and almost clapping.
I owe a debt of gratitude to Sir Norman. ...... Sir Norman not being a circuit judge, no doubt he was asked to help the Court out, perhaps due to another judge being ill, and had the time and patience to indulge a young man in what was the late autumn of his legal career.
I also remember the detective coming up to me as I left, shaking my hand, and saying 'Well done!'
I assume that both the prosecuting barrister and the detective, being aware that serious criminal offences had been committed by the probationer and the target/false witness, and would have reported this to Devon & Cornwall Police.
It says so much about how law in England is administered by police that Devon & Cornwall Police covered up these crimes.
A young man aged 19 who can fight a case, make a winding-up speech, and win a very serious charge, ought to be of use to his country. ...... All I can say, is that as the years passed, I met more and more crooks in police, councils, etc, and unlike most of my forebears, I turned my back on a vey corrupt system that disgusts me.
If you want to know the alleged FOUNDATION of English Law, read R. Vs Sussex Justices (ex-parte McCarthy[1924]) - police and lawyers urinate on it daily, and no-one says a word. ...... It is 'normal'. ...... As so often, there is a chasm between the supposed intent, and the sordid daily reality of the imposition of law.
A barrister who prosecuted a police coverup case for a corrupt council I caught in planning crime, deliberately 'burnt' me to obtain a wrongful conviction. ...... He had possession of words I had written on Karma. ...... Eight years later, he covered himself in petrol, and struck a match, in a signally unusual death. ...... Life wanted me to know - I was passed a copy of The Times when his SECOND inquest was held. ...... Judge Andrew Chubb QC. ...... Perfect Justice - he was his own judge, jury, and executioner.
I always speak of Karma. ...... Over the years, some sooner, some later, those involved in 'nastiness' all seem to hit the rocks - and in ways that reflect Perfect Justice.
POLICE LIES HARM US ALL - is such a true statement. ...... Who could possibly deny this? ...... Yet in spite of tens of thousands of instances of police lies and criminality, steadily increasing as police standards drop like lead, the Myth of Honest Police persists. ...... As anyone who makes complaints against police will know, the system is designed to protect police criminals, and is run BY the police. ...... Very few have the integrity of that officer who shook my hand 40 years ago, and they usually leave the force.
This was my FIRST experience of English law. ...... It was NOT the worst - not by a long way. ...... I expose corruption - it disgusts me. ...... Authority hates it's crimes being exposed, and has no hesitation in breaking the very laws it claims it holds dear. ...... This foul hypocrisy does untold damage to the People of England, but too many people feed upon the fear it causes, profiting by it, for them to willingly change it. ...... So events will occur, so terrible, that change cannot be denied, leading to fundamental changes in focus and direction, not mere cosmetic reshuffling of the existing grubby pack of cards.
You may record others,but others are always recording you without your knowledge,it's still called,BIG BROTHER,What law is against them,and how can we exercise it?
What's the status of the audio recording that Mason Greenwood's ex-gf apparently made (presumably covertly), of him assaulting her? Is that admissible as evidence?
Also the issue is if people say they are recording them, that means they will never be able to get anything new from them, as that other person will be paranoid thinking they are being recorded.
Bicycle cameras that look like lights ... VERY useful, potentially.
Obviously this all applies when you are part of the conversation. It is quite different if you are recording other people when you are not present.
I was illegally evicted by my social housing landlord. If I hadn’t have recorded the conversation when I confronted the manger at their offices then I wouldn’t have won at court.
I'm being bullied by a coworker who is gaslighting me. I record everything and delete it if it is of no value. It gives me piece of mind and I feel safer now that if he does say anything to me, I will have evidence. I have already reported him, so management are keeping an eye on the situation
i record every interaction with anyone from a company or anyone of authority. I make sure i do not expose anyones personal details (Data protection) if i inted to publish them online for auditing and exposure.
even when you call somewhere it tells you "this call may be recorded for legal and training..." - there is a permission "may this call be recorded? ... "this call may be recroded for legal and... "
I had an instance of where i was in an interview with the DWP and they said that meetings can be recorded but only on their tape recorders, they then proceeded to NOT provide them when i requested them and stated that althought they can provide them ,there is no obligation to do so.
So i recorded it on my phone on the table, i didnt tell them but i implied it by making it obvious that i was recording by carfully placing my phone on the table and "pressing the screen" before saying anything. they knew i was recording, they knew i wanted to record it and so i feel this would be ok to use in court as i feel the deliberatley did that so i had no evidence to refer back to. due to my mental health i may not remember all of the conversation properly and as they failed to provide me with recording equipment it was neccesary for me to record it.
the interview went swimmingly and i was treated exactly as i should have been, all my health concerns were listened to and written down correctly etc,
i feel if did not make my intent to record clear and obvious that they would have misrepresented my statments in their write up and use that to remove my entitlment to benefits.
I have had previous interviews like this and had no evidence to supply to prove it. so this time and ever since then, i record basically all interaction with any authority or company.
i also had an encounter where the gas and electricity company kept telling me different things and misinforming me, i collected the evidence and make complaints and was rewarded for my efforts with an offer of £10 off my bill if i closed the complaint. i refused and after some back and forth I explained i would only accept a cheque for £50 and they agreed and sent it.
ive not been harassed or bothered by them again.
I was involved in final judgemnet application in a county court Central London.
In the court the judge ,said that one the two person's defending themselves in this case "was lying" and this point needed "a trial" to clear it up this point before he could make rulling on it I' am on the orther side of this case and was represented by a barrister who stood alone, so know he was referring to the operstiton in the case .
Question: can the elements of the transcript from the Application hearing be used in the trail ???
Which would help my case
QUESTION .2 am I likely to get the same judge give the fact that he has some familuerarity with the case ??
My female neighbour records children playing outside including my two kids. I’ve asked her not to as it makes me uncomfortable, and I’ll inform the police. She tells me she’s not braking the law”?
So why does GCHQ record, monitor and surveil all communications made by all UK citizens?
I was informed by a police data officer that anywhere in public there is signage warning that CCTV cameras are in operation it covers members of the public to record. Eg, police stations council buildings ,schools etc.
I covertly recorded my Dwp assessments and the judges accepted them with word for word tranacripts. I had all of the Dwp decisions overturned in my favour.
I must stress that I used high quality equipment.
I usually record any phone conversations if an unknown number comes up and one day during Covid I received a call from the vaccination centre because I refused to be vacinated. They lady started the conversations by stating that she was recording. I informed her that I was also recording and she made as funny gasping sound.. ..it begs the question why was she recording me ?
I managed to not only get nearly £ 2,000 back from HMRC once but also a letter of apology . They disputed something I was told by a member of staff and despite recording the conversation they couldn't or wouldn't produce it so I gave them a copy. Worked a treat !
You cover so much! Day to day things one would not think about! Very helpful thankyou,
I totally agree 👍
Social media.record your conversion without you even knowing,adds come up on my phone,that I have already have talked about in conversation with a friend,so,how did they get that conversation,to send adds on my phone?Big Brother record every conversation we all have,we all just about have a smart phone.Big Brother track everyone,how are criminals caught? They by technology are trackt.Your out off date mate,Big Brother know everything you ever say on UA-cam,and everywhere you go.
I wish i had recorded every single conversation i had with my thieving double crossing ex business partner who ripped me off for over £150,000! A psychopath who broke every single word he ever said.
Not trying to be a smart arse but could I demand a subject access request from genealogy companies like Ancestry or Calico even though they are none UK companies?
In all honesty I couldn't be less bothered about family history but is this a loophole that could save me subscription?
I know my details exist because of a family member who built the family tree and would like to know what personal details they have.
When you ring a company and hear the message "This call may be recorded for quality and monitoring purposes." does that also give you permission to record the call? What if the message is "This call may be recorded by us..."?
hello i just got sacked from my job because i like smoking weed and had a drugs test and failed. they interviewed me and wrote a statement. and then so many days go by and i get called for another meeting for them to write notes down again. but this time i noticed in the room where they were talking to me were them round table conference speakers that have a mic obviously so they could hear me talk or record my speaking. now i was not aware of this or told they are recording or whatever. i know they were on because normally it shows a red ring around it. when its on call its green light around it. they have sacked me and i can appeal if i want. but i know i wont win the case and keep my job. so what would u suggest? because its not illegal to secretly record or film in this world we live in. this is 2021 and everything has to bee filmed. were not back in the days now.