EV Battery Wars: Comparing Options and Designing the Ultimate Battery Box
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
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Start Day: 10/10/202312:01 AMPDT
Code End Day: 10/11/202311:59 PMPDT
Battery selection & Battery box design. Informative...yet productive :)
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▬ Contents of this video ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
0:00 - Intro
1:36 - New batteries & battery selection
6:07 - Battery box design considerations
9:56 - Bus bar design
14:13 - Battery box design
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Tags:EV build,electric vehicle build,electric car build,electric vehicle conversion,ev conversion,electric supercar,electricsupercar,How to build an electric car,how to convert an electric car,electric conversion,Electric car conversion,tesla dual motor build,dual motor conversion,dual motor ev conversion,EV battery,ev battery selection,battery selection,battery box design,ev battery box design,diy battery box,diy battery box design - Авто та транспорт
Very interesting to hear your thought process behind it and all the requirements for a battery box
Great video!! Your engineer skills are inspiring, and the progress on the GT-E is going fast. 👍🏾
Thanks! 👍
Loving this series! Working out all the kinks to get this to work. So looking forward to seeing the next stage.
Thanks Friend!
Like always great, keep the good work 🙌🙌🙌
Thank you! Will do!
Ive seen all of your videos and i don't recall you ever saying, what was your occupation before? I love your videos and your attitude of not being afraid to tackle these issues. I wish i had more of that.
Thanks for the comment!
When he lost his job he described that he’s an engineer
as a mechanical design engineer myself i bet he must be a specialist in electronics design...
Think he was an EE.
Great update! My buddy is doing an electric Aventador, so sending him to your channel!
Awesome! Thank you!
Such an amazing job on the design of the battery boxes and all the components, i work with various CAD softwares so can imagine the huge effort that goes into this. Really great to see the process and the result. Hope it all fits 🤞
Thank you very much!
Great video ❤ I liked the weight comparison 🐄🤣 great white board explanations, I really learnt something new 🖍️😊 your new fuses have a sick size 👀🫣 very funny bloopers, keep them coming 🥳
Glad you liked it!
It’s coming along nicely!
Wow! Thanks for the support!
Thanks for taking the time to share all this. It's entertaining, informative, and very helpful! Keep up the great work.
Thanks for watching!
Truly great content, thanks so much! Your skill as an engineer is fantastic. I am watching this build with great interest.
Much appreciated!
Glad I found your build video - Lots of hard work and looks great so far. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
Such cool progress. Nice work and lots of thought going in.
Thanks a bunch!
Great video!
Thanks!
Just a thought on the cooling plates as I don't recall you touching on it - be aware of galvanic corrosion!
Thank you for the awsome videos!
A Solidworks tips:
If you hold your cursor over a part and hit the tab key it will hide it, and if you want to show it again, all you have to do is hit shift and tab with the cursor above the part.
Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the tips!
Very educational.. This is the reason I'm a fan of your channel.. Thank you
Happy to hear that!
Love your content, just one thing to consider: any time there's a power source there should be a fuse as close to the power source as possible, before the wire leaves the mechanical protection of the power source. In other words, each box should have its own fuse. This prevents the situation where both wires from one box get shorted to the frame or another conductor. While this should be an exceptionally rare situation, if a fire does occur - even a non-battery related fire - the cables melting and coming into contact with the frame or another component will exacerbate the situation.
For a hobby build on a budget it's not a terrible design decision and tradeoff, but it's something you should do a worst case analysis on and only then reject if the risk v reward is within your acceptable limits.
Thanks for the suggestion
excellent video man, relaxing, informative, exciting, good stuff (and the part with your son was hilarious)
Much appreciated!
Can we get some more details on the battery? I’m guessing the config will be 16S. It’s quite impressive if they can put out 1800 amps. That’s a great C rating. Better energy/power density than the LG chem Chevy volt batteries.
Great build!
Way to continually improve! Well done my friend!
Thank you very much!
Thanks for all of this great info about your battery choice, and the reasoning behind it, and the battery box plans and design specifics. For the goal of a personal supercar (and EV sportscar) I think that it is a wise to choose a smaller, power dense pack. I think that it is a mistake for the long awaited Tesla Roadster to try and shoot for 500-600 miles of range and a 260MPH top speed. Because 98% of the time, designing for those lofty goals will make the EV too heavy, and less capable for regular roads. You have made a better design choice for a fun to drive EV.
Thanks for the comment!
Your videos are coming along with tons more details this round. Well done
Jobs stink, just play
Thanks for the comment!
A new video, what a treat :)
congratulations on the progress!!
Thank you!!
Man, what a project. Very cool!
About things you could do better; I'd orient those fuse holders in such a way that you'd be able to have access to them without having to disassemble the entire car.
Good call!
I agree. It's pretty much a whole propulsion drop. Take top battery off for access.
Same though. Unless you invert it and can access it from under the car via an access hatch? How often do you need to access those anyway? If it’s a major fault big enough to blow those fuses it’s not getting home on its own 😂
It’s those smaller fuses you may need quick access to. Can you have feedback if one of those trips so you know which one has gone and if the need to get to it? Great video’s and I think you got off cheap with those printed parts 😂
Incredible engineering
Thanks Friend!
"I can't even fit my hand around that"
That's what she said!
LOL! 🤣
Hey! Loved your video. Project is coming together nicely. Cant wait to see it finished.
Side note: After 4/0 cable you have circular areas, for which the unit is in KCMILs. 4/0 cable is 212 (ish) KCMIL after that we have 250KCMIL 300KCMIL and so on till 2000KCMIL i think. I do it for construction estimation projects, I also have a chart if you wanted to look it up quickly. Let me know if you ever need that.
Thanks for the tips!
It is incredible how you learned all these things by doing them. Amazing.
Thank you very much!
I am glad that you are doing well enough to pay for your son's work! Regarding the battery for the car, I think you are giving yourself a lot of headaches by placing it in an already existing space. The batteries could be mounted under the seats, since there is always an empty space there, and there would be no need for heated seats. I personally would like to see battery modules that can be removed and charged outside the car. Thus, you would drive to the charging station, exchange and pay for the charged modules and immediately drive off while your empty batteries are poured for the next user. You would buy a Car and one set of battery modules, and then you would exchange the batteries. The car would always have batteries, but for safety reasons they would be recycled annually and the battery module manufacturer would take responsibility for the batteries. In exchange, the manufacturer would receive an annual subscription from the vehicle owner in the value of one module. This would improve safety and travel time.
Interesting 🤔
Nio does offer battery changing stations with a subscription model.
Jeremy, thanks for the informative video. I looked at those batteries for my Escape build, but I was really worried about cooling in the summer here in Tucson and 110+ temps. Those cell pouches don’t have the cooling plates between them like the Pacifica batteries in Wattson. I liked the high current potential of those over the Pacifica batteries based on EV West testing, and the smaller size allows for more packaging options - but I keep coming back to temperature control concerns. I’d love to see some testing on how the cooling plates help with that. I know it’s not as hot up in the Salt Lake area as Tucson, but I remember some pretty warm summer days when we used to live in Ogden. Good luck and I look forward to the next video!
Thanks for the comment! I will definitely do some temp testing.
if this works out well you should try to make a kit for this specific that bolts on to the car as a direct replacement for the engine.
I know some guys in england made a direct bolt on electric kit for the older porsche 911. You would make a killing with that. Great job!
Thanks for the suggestion!
Looking good! I'd recommend sleeving the steel bar so it doesn't contact the aluminum plates. Dissimilar metals like to corrode, especially if there is any stray voltage in there.
Thanks for the tips!
18:51 With this kind of cooling channels, you get uneven cooling. Try a manifold with more parallel channels, with forward and return close to each other.
Thanks for the comment
funny you mentioned the contactor. Our contactor welded closed and they had to replace the HV battery pack in our Jeep Wrangler 4xe plug in hybrid. Took them a month to get the pack.
Yikes!
awesome))👍👍👍
Thank you! Cheers!
Of all the tech, i hope for cheap battery first. Imo thats the most important tech we need
Yep!
You’re really out doing yourself this time with the CAD work. Next level with the vehicle scanning and uploading.
With the embedded cooling system plates, will the loops and pipe diameter create enough surface area to absorb and carry away heat? Are you able to factor in the flow and coolant absorption rate? Not sure how much heat the batteries will create.
I will have to test
I really love DIY projects
Thanks for the comment!
keep up the good work :)
Thanks, will do!
Forget AWG if you order cables in CSA you can easily go up to 1000 square mm
Awesome ✌🏻✌🏻✌🏻
Looks easy in the presentation but practically it's tough 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
You will execute it😇😇😇✌🏻✌🏻✌🏻
Thanks a ton
Hey! Enjoying the videos!
In terms of algorithm optimization stuff, I think its better if you move your sponsor to the middle of the video. Reason being, the first 30s (roughly, exact number unknown) retention in your video is really important to YT. This metric, combined with the fact that many people may be fast-forwarding through the sponsor segment, and you might be able to guess why its good to move your sponsor.
Also people are (anecdotally, I am not aware of any clinical evidence in one direction or another, although pretty much everything YT algorithm related is anecdotal) less likely to fast forward through the sponsor in the middle of a video, because their hands aren't on their keyboard, so your sponsor should be happy about this as well.
Hope this is helpful to you, and thanks for the great content!
Thanks for the suggestion!
I was looking for batteries to do my car and was told about a local company (Hyper Craft). Looked into their batteries and they're going to cost $6,500 for every 10kw. Other batteries that are around 7.5kw are under $1,000. Suffice to say - the prices on these batteries are all over the map.
Right you are
Just asking: The Hole behind the Seats, isn't that right around your Top Battery Box? Why not have some fun, and use a plastic cover from the seats to the battery, and Display something up there. Drop the Cooling Pump/Reservoir behind there, and have a little show effect. Reason: Because you can :)
Keep up the great Work 🎉
Nice!
Battery box needs: Weight Distribution. 😊
Good call
I just cannot wait this GT/E to hit the road!
You and me both!
Loving the videos. What "c" rating are those batteries?
22:00 If it were my build, I would put that DIN rail on the top plate of that battery box and added an access panel below. As it is now, you will need to disassemble a lot of the car to reset a breaker placed there.
Good call
Seems adding some insulation to the
Batteries would be Beneficial . They make an adhesive foam with thick aluminum foil on the outside. Typically used in duct work and such. Something similar could be used to make the battery more efficiently heated and cooled
Thanks for the comment!
On today's episode of "Americans will measure using anything but the metric system", how much do batteries weigh?
Excellent video🔥🔥🔥
LOL!
Jeremy, Is it possible for the discount for the EV charger to be extended? It looks like it unfortunately expired before you were able to post the video. Thanks so much as always for sharing this journey with us. I loved the payout to "The Man" for the parts! Thanks for bringing the family into the build.
I realize that extra wiring is expensive, but wouldn't it be advantageous to put some portion of the batteries at the front of the car? My other thought is to put the more powerful (larger, heavier?) motor with some batteries at the front again for more balanced weight distribution. I forget how much the original car had as far as weight in the back versus in the front, but I am guessing somewhere around 55% back and 45% front would be perfect. Sorry, just armchair engineering and I'm an IT engineer not mechanical....
I will look into it
I would strongly recommend having running the cell tap wires and the battery module connection cables between the batteries in some conduit. This will all be exposed wires connected directly to your battery with no contactors to isolate them, which makes it a lot more risky to work on the car since you cant just isolate them from the battery to protect yourself if they get pinched or something
Cell tap wires have a 1 amp fuse or similar. These are not as risky as the large high voltage cables, but your idea of safety is noted
You could add a disconnect switch somewhere in the middle of the battery sting. Makes it safer to do maintenance.
Interesting 🤔
It is called a manual service disconnect MSD. For instance Amphenol and TE sell such a switch. I think almost all (HV) batteries have them.
Great video! I really like the explanations. Do you say and I missed how many modules are you using in total? What is the total peak voltage? Are the cells in the modules cylinder or pouch?
Pouch cells. 28 modules. Peak voltage will be capped at 400V
Enjoying the build. Hoping to do one myself someday.
Question: What is your goal for weight distribution? It seems like you might end up rear heavy with all the batteries in the back. Or will the addition of the front drive unit cancel that out?
I am trying to keep the weight and distribution close to the original vehicle. Trying to put the packs where the engine and transmission used to be
Was thinking the same. The batteries look slim enough to fit in the center tunnel, maybe some at the front as well. Would have probably improved on the original in terms of balance, and it was already well balanced. The engine and transmission were quite flat and relatively low to the ground. The battery box on top of the rear drive unit might keep the balance numbers the same, but it will have quite the moment of inertia when changing directions…
Really interesting! I wonder if you should make the fuses more accessible somehow, it looks like you'd have to take out all the batteries to replace a fuse?
Good call
Most interesting video yet with the amazing battery box breakdown and vivid details. 😎
So it's about 50kwhs useable cell capacity right? Aiming for 160-180 real world miles of range?
Total weight still supposed to be around 3,200 once done or has that shifted any?
On a none related note. Have you seen the latest little 2dr Chinese built ev sports car the sc01?
This project kinda reminds me of that. 👍🏻
Thanks for the comment!
3:18 They moved Milwaukee! I think Atlanta has moved too. It must be because of the rising sea levels.
Awesome description and explanation of what and why you’re doing what you’re doing. Are you not concerned about having the front be a little light with all the batteries in the back. Very nice video like normal.
Thanks for the comment! I will weigh once batteries are in place. I think we should be good
Would the drive shaft channel hold any of the battery packs - inline maybe 3 might fit? Or those are too tall to fit there.
I always thought about EV conversion and fit battery packs/cells at any empty space.
It is super tight. It would potentially hold a few batteries length wise but would block off any other lines or cables
One of the side effects of building a lighter weight EV is that you get better efficiency from the battery capacity that you DO have. Having said that, I'd still anticipate it having a sub-300 mile range. Possibly less than 200 mile. But, for a sports car that is not your primary mode of transport, that's totally acceptable. Particularly nowadays when Tesla has finally opened up some of their charging network so you can actually fast charge in more places with decent reliability, so the range anxiety is somewhat lessened even for lower range vehicles. Also rather fortunate is the fact that the Tesla rear drive unit is a bit smaller than the engine and transmission it replaces, so you can afford the space around it to cram extra battery packs without needing to stack them as high up in the car. It'll just make cable routing a bit more interesting.
If you have a lot of skill in metal fabrication then you could completely reshape the front and rear firewalls of the cabin along with the tunnel and floor to provide even more dedicated space for batteries to live, but that takes considerable time and effort both in the fabrication work itself as well as the learning curve for acquiring those skills in the first place. It would basically be looking at the chassis' fixed points, the suspension mounts and supporting structure, the sills, the pillars, and the floor around the seats, then considering everything else within the body as changeable to suit your needs. Figure out where weight needs to be, how to best facilitate the motor mountings, and then design battery enclosures and figure out how to make the construction around them into structurally functional parts of the car. It's certainly not as flexible as designing a car from scratch to be an EV, with a raised floor to house layers of battery modules as the lowest possible center of gravity, but it's much better than if you have no choice but to shove batteries around in an unmodified chassis until you get the capacity and discharge rate you need, but you end up with batteries stacked to the parcel shelf.
Vibration protection for the battery box? I remember you mentioning this briefly in an earlier video but don't see any mention in this one.
Also what BMS are you looking to use, it would be best to have it live in your battery boxes and not run any small HV cell wires outside the boxes. Same goes for fuses or contactors that need to be inside all boxes to ensure all HV cables are protected outside the box.
Planning on Orion BMS. I am trying to keep it in the same area as the batteries
@ElectricSuperCar intresting choice seeing they do not really support your parallel module configuration. Also your struggles on the Hummer ev conversion.
LOL at the shock around 7 minutes in.
Do you need to account for access to the fuses and switches in the last of the boxes should those components trip during setup or use? Maybe an access hatch to get at them rather than taking the whole setup apart? You might have already considered this. 21:50
Good call!
Are you going to add a fireman's loop or some other fast disconnect that is easy to access in case of fire?
Yes
I would put the satellite Bmss in the boxes then you only need 4 pin connectors coming out of each box, one each for ipo,imo,ipi,imi. Then daisy chain them.
Interesting 🤔
Wondering if @Makera wants to sponsor you a Carvera so you can prototype these parts at home, and wondering if @BambuLab would sponsor an X1 + AMS. I think these two tools would get you a long way with prototyping faster and better. This got to be a project both companies can see would give their products a great spotlight.
Only issue i can see is getting to those fuses if you need to. You would have to drop out a lot of stuff to get to them. You have room up top, I personally would try and move it around a bit so in case you need to, you can just remove a top cover that has dual orings and then you can get to the fuses and don't have to drop it all out from the bottom of the car.
Put in a good word for me
or Shapeoko Pro or Stepcraft M1000
Battery design is crazy hard! Considering all details is overwhelming! Curious how the battery comes out
You and me both!
😁@@ElectricSuperCar
What about crash & fire safety if you get rear ended or somehow the car ends up going backwards to a wall/barrier?
That is what the bumper and crash structure are for
Look at those batteries! and that weight comparison!😃 How much did it cost?
Cost is on the whiteboard at the end
Center of gravity a little high? Any way to lower near the floor? How does the weight distribution compare to the stock Porsche?
Center of gravity will be lower than the Porsche
I’m curious about the copper tube inside aluminum plates. How do you get those made? I can imagine machining out the plates and using conductive epoxy to inlay the tubes, but do you have a more sophisticated process or vendor for that?
Good question!
Can you maybe do a video accessing the affects of the new Lithium mine in Nevada and how it will change the battery industry in the US over the next 10 years?
Interesting 🤔
Were a123 batteries on your shortlist?
Have you thought about using multiple types of batteries in the car to take advantage of the different advantages with different types of batteries? Imagine having an energy dense battery pack for the range and a small power dense battery for high draw scenarios. Maybe it’s possible to use some sort of super capacitor for those extremely high draw situations in the future?
Interesting 🤔
Are you going to get a galvanic reaction putting copper in contact with aluminum?
What range are you hoping to get with them? Where did you buy them and are they brand new?
They are brand new from EV West. I am hoping maybe 170 miles. I am thinking I can get the most range if I run front motor only
Thinking about cooling these batteries a bit more. These SuperCells don’t have metal plates like the Pacifica batteries do, so you won’t have a direct metal path between your cooling plates and the individual pouches. What’s your reasoning here?
EVWest used these in their E35 monster and say they’re ok in SoCal being air cooled, but they had a hard time keeping them cool when running in the desert.
We will see
I've thought it would be cool to take a crashed Evora and electric convert and rebody it but the complexity of what you are up to kind of boggles my mind. Not sure I'd be up to the task. Great stuff on the GT-E though!
Not a bad idea
@@ElectricSuperCar I have to learn a LOT more first. Currently just in "scared that's too big a project" mode.
What size of cables are you running that you can run 800Amp fuses ?!? Have you ever looked at a fuse spec sheet and how to rate them?
18:27 I think it would be good to put a bus bar between each terminal that are connected together like this: [] instead of this L|. Doing so would make the whole battery more stable in many ways with the most important being that those lower batterys will get used more than the upper batterys
I agree, the vertical bars would then carry very little current, unless a battery dropped out. It might be better to eliminate the vertical bars all together, to prevent some kind of bad scenario if a battery does drop out. I'm curious if these packs have reverse current protection.
Use a glue stick on the bed to promote print adhesion
Thanks for the suggestion!
Will the battery mass that high up in the chassis cause an issue with handling?
Batteries are in the same place as the motor. Should be same handling
LG chem batteries are known for catching fire and have had so many recalls
where did you buy your batteries from? I am trying to source cells or modules to build a 20kwh battery pack for my motorcycle conversion. If you could let me know where you got the cells, that would be awesome, thanks in advance!
EV-West
In regard to your power brake design: why didn´t you go for a vaccum pump like beeing used in modern (turbo) vehicles? paired with e.g. Mater XV600 switch it works fine for me (in a classic Car)
Definitely an option
great stuff. you mentioned in the video joining your double module negative to the next double module negative... which would imply everything is in parallel. Was that a typo/misstatement? I'm assuming each double set might be in parallel but at some point you would have negative going to positive, correct? Also, those contactors will do a good job of making those wires coming out of these modules deadfaced when the contactors are open. But keep in mind that on the other side of those contactors, those wires going between the modules and the BMS wires will be hot. Since you can't have everything in one box, you may want to either add contactors in each box, or maybe as a mitigation use strong conduit between the boxes to make sure those wires can't ever be touched. I guess one issue is emergency responders cutting through them - even if the contactors are open it wouldn't help in that case. Great job! can't wait to see more progress!
Positive to Positive doubles amperage and Positive to negative doubles voltage. I think we are on the same page
@@ElectricSuperCar yeah, I agree but if you listen through to your video and your voice track it doesn't sound (at least to me anyways) that you are ever increasing voltage.
@@FrankGraffagnino understood
What is wrong with CAD is always what was not put in the CAD! I suggest you add the wiring and connectors to CAD to see if you can plug them and unplug them and see if the wiring fits!
Thanks for the suggestion!
5:41 that's what she said lol
LOL!
I think youshould think carefully about how are you going to place the cooling connections once they are outside the battery boxes. There is not a lot of space in there. Also, all these thick aluminium plates are going to add a lot of weight 😅
Right you are!
Wait a tic, what are you using to have a waterproof method of having the high voltage entry and exit to each battery box?
Also, that cooling seems kinda overkill, and probably super expensive, did the method you used for the previous car not work that well and now you're trying to avoid it? Or is this new method actually much easier and not much more expensive?
I guess we will see
are you willing to cut out any part of the chassis?
Yes, but that is a large task
Good luck 🫡
Thanks Friend!
how will the battery placement affect car weight balance? it feels like one side is gonna be way heavier with the batteries and engine.
EV conversions are usually a little heavier than the gas counterpart
@@ElectricSuperCar that's too be expected, but that's not what I meant. In your cad design, one side looks like it holds both the motors and a large battery pack while the other side has only a battery pack and the front-rear weight distribution might be problematic for handling (might be mistaken of course I don't really understand much about the subject).
We will check it out as we go
where did you get your battery modules from?
EV west
@@ElectricSuperCar cheers. Hey out if interest, are you looking for people to join you? In not in America so I can’t help directly, but I’m happy to help with editing and research if you want
Always happy to have help
@@ElectricSuperCar sure, I'd love to give you a hand. shall I reach out to you via email?
Like the gentleman before me. I really met you when Zack featured you on his channel. Is anybody in Utah NOT an engineer of some sort?
I was wondering how you were doing since the job thing?
Still on the hunt for a new job
do a palestinian livary when completed because your concept looks sleek and cool for an electric car. also do something like a battery marriege like how cars are made would allow extra storage space, and for the water proofing maybe add like nialon under the car to give more risistance to like flooding and less shortage. also which design software do you use is it solidworks or autodesk fusion 360