Top 10 Cavaliers (AoE2)
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- While Paladins usually steal the spotlight, this time we're going to give some attention to the always reliable cavalier, including which civilizations are best set up to make the best use of them.
0:40 Which civilizations count?
1:14 #10 Huns
1:35 #9 Portuguese
1:55 #8 Romans
2:51 #7 Franks
3:52 #6
4:30 #5
5:22 #4
6:25 #3
7:30 #2
8:35 Honorable mentions
10:05 #1
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Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsound.com
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition - Ігри
I like the choice you made, SOTL. Discussing Cavalier in absence of Paladin civs would have been a strange conversation.
I agree. I think it also reflects the fact that while we often see caviler in competitive 1vs1s we rarely see paladin as it's too expensive
Kinda meta but I love how no matter how life changes and gets weird - I can trust Spirit will keep mathematically analyzing AOE2. Thanks Spirit.
11:48 Man, seeing that ending clip where the group of cavalry weaving through a group of heavy camels while getting decimated is painful 😂
And under 2 casltes firing
@@anhdunghisinh Pole Cavaliers as well, so they just melt under Castle fire
@@The-jy3yq also turk castles with free chemistry
A video on the strongest cavaliers in the game closes out with a public service announcement on how NOT to use them, ever
Oh no, Spirit mentioned Sicilians in top5, now devs are gonna nerf them again
Good
don't worry, they will compensate by further buffing their farm bonus
I'd say Burgundians are the most honorable mention here. They give you the opportunity to spend resources on cavaliers which you'd otherwise be spending on advancing to Imperial Age.
But you don't have real Cavaliers then. Lacking +4 and 20 HP, it's just a +2 Knight with a Cavalier-skin and free Bloodlines basically.
This is also ignoring the extra gold from mining stone that poles get, which considering you can have defensive castles, to get the tech to get gold discount, means you can out produce in a 1v1 Arabia/Arena game.
Defensive walls and castles protecting folwark farms means you have more resources, safe and strong eco and can focus on offense keeping your enemy from raiding or counter attacking.
Poles are pretty sweet when it comes to booming and spamming cavalier lol no doubt they are number 1 in my opinion too
The checkered horse armour looks way cooler on the cavalier than the paladin in my opinion. I always imagined them as race horses when i was little 😅😅
So you prefer checkered to fleur de lis😢
I honestly feel the exact other way about them.
@@martijn9568 nobody likes the French... :p
actually, thats coat of arms of bavaria
Cavaliers look way cooler not like some fancy renaissance tourney knight or fantasy game knight
5:24 loved the new skin of Gbeto :p
@Spirit Of The Law
i had no clue what whould be #1 after seeing #2, but i completely forgot about them. everything about that civ makes spamming cav a good idea, its like goths but with more flexibility
And not one but several strong eco bonuses. Plus, cavalry are stronger than infantry to begin with.
@@teddyhaines6613 i think the reason poles are somewhat good is that they are good in non cavalry stuff, while goths are very one dimensional and have very hard matchups vs good anti infantry civs. poles can go arbalest, have very good infantry unique unit, great siege options including bbc, maxed skirmishers for trash wars and ofc the winged hussar with trample damage. all of this with 2 solid eco bonuses
@@davidpereira5969 Those things help, but the eco bonus is the most important. Goths can go archers for a while if they need to since they get crossbowman and bracer (most pros don't even get arbalest these days I've noticed), and they can go knights since they only miss the last cav armor, but there's no reason to go to Goths for those since (at least until recently with the new hunt bonus) they didn't have much of an economy bonus.
The only thing for me is that do you really want to go there when trample hussars exist? Amazing tech though
@@mbvglider the discounted knights/cavaliers are really good to make a timing push, its so easy to mass a ton of cavaliers that at the end of the day are cavaliers with +2 armor and bloodlines/husbandry. the hussar is more long term to use as a trash unit or with arbs, hussar arb is prety decent if you can keep the arb mass alive and just throw hussars everywhere
Great video! As someone who plays Poles quite a lot, I believe you should have mentioned their other gold bonus as well; namely, stone mining granting gold. Not only do they have cheaper Cavaliers, but by mining stone they can keep making them longer.
Cavaliers and TH Swordsmen totally win the fashion contest for me :).
Awesome looking units!
And normal foot archers die the best 😂
I think Burgundians cavalier deserved a real spot for coming an age early and way cheaper. The power spike of cavalier in castle age is huge, even without bloodlines. Yeah, they are weaker in the long run, but that isn't how they are meant to be used, especially because their paladins are also half-off. The outcome is actually longer-lasting and more impactful than the Frank scouts, which also stink long-term becuase of the bloodlines issue, but no one would say that the Frank scout rush is not good, even excellent.
I would even say that they should bump the Franks from the list; The Frank bonus is really just free bloodlines (+4 hp on cavalier is so situational, it may as well not be noticed). What really propels the Franks cavalier is a good economy, not a free, already cheap tech from way back in feudal age.
Real question: Do people even research chivalry often? I normally don't, because building more stables always seems easier for massing units, and it sure saves a lot of gold for more units.
I think I played about 200 games with franks, never once researched chivalry, just make more stables and save the gold
When I was a kid playing AoC, the Vikings had the best Cavaliers, in my opinion : I just loved the Vikings so much and would just go for full cavaliers not realizing the importance of the techs I was missing
I always went either Vikings or Saracens as a kid. Their unique units were just so cool to me.
I love how much thoughts you put in the comparison.
How about some kind top infantry top list next?
- Top 10 infantry UU
- Top 10 infantry by unit and civ
- Top 10 infantry unit over all
Sotl has a really great voice that even though im no longer playing, im still watching his clips
Totally agree with the list and especially with #1, with their economy cavs just become a 'trash' unit where you can spam them forever without even care if you take good fights or not.
I think it would be fair to actually compare burgundian paladins with those other civs' chevaliers as the overall upgrade cost (due to the discount) makes them basically the same cost as Chevalier + Unique Tech for those other civs. Not to mention their vineyard unique tech which allows you to keep gold income even in the lategame.
Doesnt the Vineyard give around 1 relic worth of gold per 24 farming vills? You ll have 34-45 on food in healthy late eco, so its not that significant....I think?
@@wandraak58 i agree w/ ur theory but imo youd generally have more farmers than that if gold runs out, 60ish maybe more? especially if youre going for cav spam
Thank you very much for listening to my suggestion, Spirit! ❤
I love watching your videos after getting back into the game after roughly 10 years by now. Honestly you're one of the best Age of Empires content creators on all of UA-cam. Still miss your old Intro Song tho :D
I’ve been surprising people with my unending chain of Portuguese cavaliers for so long now😂 I guess the secret is out
At 5:27 you are not showing a Gbeto (the unique unit of the Malians) but a Shotel Warrior (unique unit of the ethiopians) ;)
Otherwise, love your video as always
I played poles a day ago and was wondering "They are quite good, ¿Why are they not on the list?". The results surprised me ngl 😅
they and gurjaras are the two civs i avoid
I would really think cost would matter a lot in 1 vs 1 considering how inefficient using the market for gold is, but at least during the HD days, we saw unit quality often taking the edge over unit quantity. I mean even spirit was Surprised to see the Franks at one point #1.
it does make sense though, if you can slightly outnumber your enemy and especially for slower meat grinding fights. For example 11 vs 10, the 10 would be winning 9 individually battle and quickly losing 1. That 1 loss now frees 2, to quickly stat winning 1 3vs1 or 2 2vs1. It's just cascades quickly, but there are a lot of other factors, unit speed, positioning, micro,...
Malians don’t have 15% gold drop off anymore.
Oofta. Time to private the video and redo it lol
Oof
They still have that bonus, just nerfed to 10%. So his point still stands
As i mentioned above though, farimba technically is a +3 attack and free blast furnace so it is 375 food and 175 gold making it the cheapest castle tech in the game.
@@Naccarat I said nothing about his point being invalid. Only that the bonus wasn’t 15% anymore. Presumably he started the video before the June update but only finished it now.
Thanks for the content ☺️
I dont play AoE at all, but this videos are very relaxing.
Huh, interesting topic, didn't expect it would be worth it this much.
I rather Cavaliers than Paladins, on my opinion they look cooler
Same always thought this myself, they just look cooler than the more fancy paladin
Bucket-type helms are just so cool.
Same with two handed swordsmen
@@Just_a-guy absolutelly
2
The price for stirrups is listed as 450f 200 gold at 5:46 and 400f and 200g at 4:35
Price fluctuation
inflation
I'm glad I got to try Sicilian cavalier before the nerf. Admittedly only on arena and closed maps and people spam halbs whenever they see cavalier but still got to try it.
Honestly... cavaliers are more important than paladins i think. I've lost so many games going for paladin when its just not affordable
Can be the case for every paladin civ except franks imo.
As well as Burgundians. While I understand they are an honorable mention, I give them credit for being the easiest to reach and most accessible cavaliers, and later paladins in AoE2.
Hard agreed. Paladins in 1v1s are only good if you are 100% sure that they will give you the game in one fight but if not you pretty much threw all your gold
Researching paladin in 1v1 is a calculated risk, yes. You need to really consider the situation and the enemy army you're facing before committing to it. It can be worth it against heavy cav archers or things like that, however.
Not really. Spanish and Magyar can do it because they save gold (on upgrades) and for Spanish get gold as well. Teutons have to do it because you use them as a tank. So smash the enemy head on as no speed to run around raiding
So Franks, Spanish, Magyar and teutons can research paladin in 1v1 comfortably
The other ones you really gotta think if it's worth it.
I would also argue that celts and byz have to research paladin because if you're going cavalier with them it's just not worth it so you must research paladin to make it a decent unit.
I had a feeling the Polish Cavaliers were great
Well they tried to fight with them in WWII so...
@@jn1mrgn out off pure desperation & in effort to save their lands & families
@sotl 1 mistake here brother.
i always see/hear ppl write/say say this too. Farimba is not more expensive, it is rather one of the cheapest techs in the game considering it's power as it comes at the cost of losing blast furnace which is in it self expensive. Farima total cost is 650-275 and 400-225 gold
Bringing it down to 375 food ane 175 gold only.
Only downside is that it is imperial indeed.
Well, can you guess who gets Blast Furnace in Castle Age?
how about cost of castle (650 stone) vs cost of blacksmith (175 wood)
@@denizumut1 first of all it was a bulgarians cost vs malians in which case both requires a castle.
2- if you say " cheaper tech but requires a castle" is like saying you can spend time collecting stone rather than other rss, then get a castle which in it self is an advantage.
3- castles ain't a bad investment man 😅
In which case both arguments are still irrelevant cuz it is an imperiap age tech and by then YOU WILL have a castle. While bulgarians tech is castle age which is where you are required to make a choice.
If i don't need gbetos, i often get thst castle just for the techs but i use it in a way to get some 1 time or permamant value. Either a castle drop for pressure snd upgrade techs while castle still stands or to control some rss. The first castle will always hold more value anyway and it is an advantage if you don't need it for your unit actually.
Thing is, plenty of players won't go for blast furnace as it is because of its cost and the fact that armor upgrades are more important for melee units. So you can't just strike the cost of blast furnace off the cost of Farimba when it's not guaranteed you'd research the former anyways in lieu of more cavalier numbers.
@@teddyhaines6613 what you are saying makes zero sense. Blast furnace might be a lower priority over armor but it is a big priority never the less because it is a plus 2. Any experienced player will never write it off no matter the case as plus 2 is as valuable as upgrading a unit and often more. A simple and straight forward example: two-hand swordmen into Champion upgrade for costs More than double the amount for 1 damage and 10 hp. Compared to 2 damage That's aprrox the same gain from the unit upgrade for double the price. so blast furnace is not only cost efficient here, but also generic for all melee types. Literally putting any single unit upgrade to shame "cavs or inf".
Like wise paladin upgrade is 5 times the price for 2 damage 40 hp and 1 pierce armor so balancing the price would put a 10 damage from blast furnace gs 2 dmg 40 hp and 1 peerce armor which puts paladin upgrade into a much lower tier compared to blast furnace which again, works for everyone not only paladins.
THE ONLY exception is spearmen line " and sometimes camels" where damage is not important and unit upgrade has a huge hidden bonus like helberdiers.
Besides, if you want to put farimba in context you can't say " many ppl won't go for blast furnace anyway" because, you know, rhe guy who would put farimbha in context is mass producing cavaliers and is rich enough to pick it up or is reaching a trash fight point in the game and he's got to transition. Either way it is a point of the game wherw farimba price is justified as an " upgraded version" of blast furnace.
Wasn't the Malian gold bonus nerfed to 10%?
I think so. It's also a bit strangely worded in the video, suggesting that you have longer lasting gold piles, even though they run out at the same speed as usual. You just get more gold in total, but I guess the result is the same.
This was very interesting! Top 10 Crossbowmen (AoE2) could also be interesting
While certainly not the best, my favorite civ for cavaliers will probably always be Britons because they complement the longbows and halberdiers I use playing the Britons so well.
briton cavalier is so underrated due to lacking bloodlines but situationally very useful in some matches
I once randomed Briton pocket in a teamgame and ran circles around the enemy Sicilians pocket all game. Helped that I was a better player and was the only one in the game to never get raided, but still, you only miss bloodlines which isn't the end of the world. And you still have a strong eco with Britons.
Agreed, tho my personal favorite compliment to brit ranged units are light cav. In 1v1s anyway. They deal with skirms and also act as a meat shield. The rest is managed by the archers
I'm not supirsed but it is nice to see my favorite civ at number one
I think spirit is massively undervaluing the last armour upgrade here. Very important for raiding and verses archer. Usually knights aren't fighting other knights
There is an exchange shotel, which just wanted to see some of those famous malian castles and got in a SOTL vid :D
Yeah, number 1 was predictable if you've seen them in action.
I'm a little disappointed this was limited to fully upgraded units. Not only were my beloved Magyars excluded this way, but the curious case of the Burgundians couldn't really be examined at all. I think the early Imp power spike is the main thing to look at for practical purposes as Cavaliers won't be used much after that in a 1v1. It makes sense to compare them before Blast Furnace, for example, and I would have liked to see how they stack up against Burgundian Paladins.
Awesome video mate what r the top 5 Paladin Civs?
Just the extra gold that you save opens up so many options for poles
Next up: Best Halberdier Civs
My top 5 prediction (in no particular order): Burmese, Japanese, Teutons, Slavs, Dravidians
what if you normalize based on pop-cap irrespective of lanchester & resource then best equipped would succeed; which civ would that be?
4:01 what mod is that? I can’t find a mod that makes gray black. That looks so sick
Good list
How many do i need to have on wood without any bonuses, to hold 5 farms?
good job ^^
I'm puzzled by the result of the Poles vs Franks fight, btw. I ran a test of Poles vs Teutons (Post Imp) where the Poles barely won 5/6 times (the loss was due to bad pathing). I've now tried the same with Franks (12 vs 8) and the Poles won more clearly - like they should have. What was different in your test that made it undersell the Poles?
Teuton pala if to compare with franks - survives 2 more hits and have to win with same res vs poles cav. But in real game hard to compete with poles with any pala civ- in timing/ numbers/reinforce ability.
I miss your intro. Otherwise great video and highly informative.
Imagine a Top 10 SotL videos video!
(There are currently 577 entries in that list).
Hey, does it mean we're getting other tops for Crossbows, or two handed swordsmen ?
I always forget and then can't save up enough for those final imp upgrades so I like civs without paladin or champion, but other bonus' to make up for it. I like malians and malay a lot.
I do miss Malay having infinite fish traps + 2 handed swordsmen who only cost food.
Once you hit full power you were going to win eventually, it was just a matter of drowning the enemy in swordsmen.
@@FuelDropforthewin Malay still have 5000 food fish farms _and_ their Swordsmen cost 5 food more while requiring 0 gold
@@FuelDropforthewinsmall ponds were a blessing for malay
Waiting for that video on how good is the Vietnamese new eco bonus ;)
Knights into Cavaliers, my favorite Sega Saturn game!
THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVE
I honestly really like the Cavalier. In light of the lack of Paladin for many civs, the Cavalier is a really good unit.
And Lithuanian and Polish Cavaliers are my favorite thanks to that relic bonus and cheaper gold cost respectively. Though even generic Cavaliers are something I enjoy and have a good amount of them regardless of my civ, except for those that lack even that upgrade to the Knight line.
Poles are the answer to the question "What if Goths, but mounted."
You've made the right decision to include ALL civs even with the paladin upgrade ones in the video. That way we can make the best decision which civ has the best cavaliers. Even if there are civs with paladins, that doesn't change the fact that they still got cavaliers to test!
How can franks beat romans? Franks have +4 hp while Romans can deal either 5 or 10 extra damage in a fight
I was thinking the same thing. Franks start with +4 HP and each roman cavalier will do +5 at least once to eat that extra HP and 1 more. They should win this scenario unless I am missing something
The easy one answer is, as i did not test it, it is probably overkill damage. When you add 4 health if a cavalier can survive at 1 , 2 or 3 health it's gonna sway the whole fight.
in a group fight not every unit fights 1vs1, most of those charge attacks are wasted in one target, after charges are done remaining frank cavaliers still have more base hp. that makes the difference i think
@@denizumut1 they can't be wasted. If they gang up on one they get a 7v8 very fast and win right away. I'm sure if Spirit runs this same analysis 100 times, romans will more more than they lose
@@kartiksaraf4676 it mostly depends on how units got engaged and pathfinding, results can always change when tested in similiar enviroment but generally speaking, in a 8v8 fight, when it downs to 7v8 very fast, romans should left with 1 injured cavalry and 7 full hp (140 hp) cavalry, while remainign 7 frank cavalry still has 144 hp (so in a oversimplified math 7x4=28 hp). thats enough to make a snowball effect. Because all alive cavaliers still doing their damage, and if a cavalier stays alive with 4 hp, it still does 14 attack to its target. But as you said, vice versa can happen too (btw i oversimplified the attack point and armor interaction so pls dont correct my numbers but the idea is the same even if i put exact numbers)
6:03 - 6:13 = It will be 10% as the bonus is nerfed.
Yea but ue also often makes a mistake of considering farimba as an expensive tech when it actually is a +3 attack and free blast furnace making it's cost less than half.
@@ryanforgo3500 You don't get the extra attack for your infantry so it's not quite the same benefits as getting blast furnace.
@@teddyhaines6613 Well yeah, but it's we are talking purely about cavaliers
Shotel Warrior in front of a malian castle? I think this shoulkd be a Gebeto. Good video anyway ;)
Maybe I missed it, but what's the best paladin??
My was shotel warrior next to the malian castle?
maybe i missed it, but is not also important how much longer it takes more Cav.
it counts the ressources you need, but not the longer time
Oh wow mind bending ending
Only in AoE II would a unit attack 5.6% faster than a unit of the same type, in the same upgrade line
Prefer cavalier civ in ludocris maps where I can go spain and make a big 500 paladin army and yell RIDERS OF ROHAN CHARGE!!!!
Spirit plz analyze anti bonus.. bonuses!! Gbows, Camel Archers, etc. you are awesome!
Riders of Rohan!!! - Me when attacking with cavaliers 😅
Persians should be included. The Kamandaran tech allows you to make crossbows without any gold cost. This translates into a very strong Persian cavalry force due to having the ability to make Cavaliers in greater numbers plus supported by a 'free' unit that counters pikemen. Persian army is almost unbeatable given equal resources, imo, due to the Kamandaran tech.
The humble buckethead knight does their best.
I bet polish cav is number 1
Nice!
CN you make a video bow the konnik can beat fully upgrade paladins
Then the Cheap Cavaliers arrived
Coming down the mountainside
Hey dude, please make a video for the best kipchak please 🙏
I like Cavalier model more than Paladin's
Jadwiga approves this message
Wait wait wait, why relatively +4 hp gives advantage against one (or even two) +5 damage?
I have to agree with you that the Franks, while good, aren't top of this. Malians giving extra attack, Sicilians with their resistance to halberdiers and archers, and Poles for the ability to go against Frank Paladins with equal numbers and still come out ahead in terms of gold lost (not even the Berbers can do this). Franks cavaliers just aren't quite as useful. Franks however have their HP bonus based on a percentage, so once you get those super Paladins, you're in for a good time.
I was thinking if Poles didn’t make the list at least give them a honorable mention.
I still think Berbers > Poles. Their discount is 15/20% for free, and Plate Barding is important. Even then, Their Camels can trash any Poles Cavalry. (And they lack Halbs.)
But I guess SOTL has a point. And my argument is not about the unit itself alone as he described in this video, but observing the total Tech Tree/Bonuses/UT's as a whole.
The Szlachta Privileges savings are 45 gold vs the Berbers' saving 12 food and 15 gold, though. Gold being the more important resource since it runs out in late game. And Poles have a far better economy as well. Certainly their heavy camels would beat the Poles' cavalier, but they're a counter unit so that's to be expected.
@@teddyhaines6613 Yep. Fair enough. I got grabbed there by my bias. I just deem Plate Barding imperative. But that's just an opinion.
@@dennisjonker4804 I think everyone thought that when they first saw Poles. Hera was inconsolable and immediately declared the civ trash when he looked at the tech tree for the first time. It took us a while to realize just how stupid the Szlachta savings are in practice. When you can mass more cavaliers than the enemy has arbalests, the arbs will vanish as soon as they're not in a chokepoint or under a castle.
damn realized how much i love cavaliers since I play bulgarians, berbers, poles, burgundians and a bit of malians and burmese.
I love the Silicians Cavaliers, very strong and flexible.
Isnt is there mistake? I mean shotel is ethiopian not malian?
I've been watching far too many Fire Emblem videos. I was so confused by the title.
Frank cavalier vs Roman ones should be about even since Frank cavaliers only have 4 more ho than generic one with bloodline, and the Roman UT gives 5 attack in the charge. The testing result must have been from randomness.
Guess Poles #1?
Fun fact: The generic Cavalry unit in Fire Emblem is the Cavalier and not the Knight. In Fire Emblem, the latter is designated to Hoplite-like melee foot soldiers. For reference, the Hoplite is a slow, albeit heavily armored unit from AOE1 which is analogous to the Teutonic Knight in its masterful sequel.
Promoting Cavaliers into Paladins is a shared aspect across both series, with a hefty food/gold cost in AOE2 and a Knight Crest coupled with a level 10 minimum threshold in Fire Emblem.
... Sorry, my love for both Age of Empires and Fire Emblem is nigh unwavering.
who has the best militia?
This video is not complete without some footage of SOTL doing some “Pole” dancing!
Something very wrong -- or very funky -- must have happened in the Romans vs. Franks test:
-- Franks have only +4 hp / cavalier
-- Romans have a one-time +5 attack / cavalier (assuming none of the charge attacks were used 2x)
This means that after the first attack of every cavalier in the battle, the romans had +1 hp on each of their cavalier compared to the franks (assuming it was spread evenly across all cavalier). Surely unlikely to sway the fight in favor of the romans, but to make the romans LOSE -- that would be very, very strange.
It is probably statistical noise if only one fight was simulated, but on the other hand, there were three frank cavalier left, implying a substantial advantage?
In small groups franks have advantage. When 2 romans cav charges on 1 frank, this "wasted" charge make difference.
Splash damage and bonus against archers on Winged Hussars is also kinnda a big deal.
Still personally a big fan of aztec cavaliers.
How bout berber cavalier vs poles cavalier?
Poles should win with equal resources since they save 45 gold per cavalier vs 27 food/gold for Imperial age Berbers. And that's ignoring that Poles have a much better eco than Berbers as well.
Well my personal favorite Cavalier is the Gendarme, you see it gets bonus feats in place of-... Wait, this isn't Pathfinder!
Sorry, am I missing something on the Romans vs Franks Cavalier? How are Franks winning that fight? Yes Franks do get +4 hp on each cavalier, but Romans are doing +5 damage every 20 seconds, and that 8vs8 fight definitely took longer than 20 seconds, so some of the cavalier would have used their charge attack twice even.
Yes!!
I do despise the new pathfinding mechanic. In HD your units would break up and attack whatever is in front of them. However, in AOE DF they follow that same unit, not breaking up, not fighting the others, and in essence, dying quicker.